Question for raiding assasins

[Kirma]

<DIV>I had 12k over a guilded assasin.  vs mobs that dont resist piercing. Zalak and behemot</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>what's that about? has your dmg / dps been janked that bad? Swash can keep up. 6k far.. but cmon. the double for an assasin?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>this has happened a lot btw, i am yet to be beaten by a scout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>note that the assasin parsed wasnt afk. did ho's.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> had more then decent gear / spells.... </DIV> <DIV>My equip besides some jewelery is all fabled. 34dmg rating dual weild wpns. Full masters tier 4-5 but 6</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hujiko lvl 50 brigand</DIV> <DIV>Shadowed Strife</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kirmatt on <span class=date_text>07-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:25 AM</span>

[ERROR]

That assassin is eather lazy, or doesn't know how to play the class. <div></div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

I've never had trouble beating either rogue class on dps be it a slash immune mob or pierce immune.  It's all about the player behind the keyboard, if you have a very well equipped predator that doesn't mean they will put out a staple amount of damage.  In the correct hands, an assassin or ranger is not going to have a problem out dpsing a rogue though. <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZaranilShadowfiend wrote:<BR> In the correct hands, an assassin or ranger is not going to have a problem out dpsing a rogue though.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>in the correct hands a brigand has no problems outdamaging any assassin, ranger whatsoever, your only hope lies in the combat changes hehe</DIV>

[WhispersEdge]

<div></div>I haven't gone head to head against a brigand since they seem to be nonexistent on Mistmoore, but I have had no problems destroying our swashie. He is usually #2 behind me, and sometimes its close. In the most pure dps fight I can think of (Underworld Summoner), all with the same buffs and in the same group, I clocked out over 300dps, the next highest was a ranger at 240 and swash at around 235.  I doubt a brigand would have fared any better =p. That swash is the best geared swash in the game as well btw, probably the best geared rogue in the game as well. <span></span> <p>Message Edited by WhispersEdge on <span class=date_text>07-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:35 AM</span>

[Jhaelryna]

<P>Maybe it is just me, but I have no desire to out damage anyone.  I don't care who did the most damage as long as </P> <P>a.) I didn't get aggro.  </P> <P>b.) My group/raid didn't get debt  </P> <P>c.) the target died.  </P> <P>Yes that is the order of priority I place on it.  I try to keep enough power to at least get an evac off if need be.  Nothing worse then giving it your best shot then can't pull the bacon out of the fire when the pan melts. ;p</P> <P>All this whoo-ha about "so-n-so out damaged whoever" is just silly.  The point of the game is to work as a unit, and doing your best to achive the goal....make the target a smear on the floor w/o being one yourself.  </P> <P>I personally try to control my dmg output so that the tank keeps aggro, makes it easier on the healers if they only have to conscentrate on healing the tank(s).  Stealing aggro only makes the tanks' job harder to try and get it back and wastes power they could be using for their "big hits".  </P>

[khalysta]

You would have to post detailed parses to know for sure why the differences exist.  I know lots of assassins don't like to use the bow skills and you can see it in some of the detailed parses where spitting viper and assassins shot are both missing which can add quite a bit.  Also what is your normal raid setup?  Does the assassins not get any haste, are your grouped with fury,bard, enchanter or any other really good buffers? 

[ERROR]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=26923"><span>Jhaelryna</span></a>.I believe we're talking about the end-game raid scene here.Raid tanks keep aggro pretty well (atleast our raid tanks). Melee dps is almost always instructed  to go balls to the walls.The only time that our melee dps has to watch it on a raid is when the mob is stunning the MT.Other then that.. "BURN BURN BURN" is all we hear.<div></div>

[Al]

Tell us your exact DPS , not how much dmg you did over another person, then maybe we can see if the assassin just sucks. I have done about 330 dps on king zalak before. <div></div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Gyilok wrote: <blockquote> <hr> ZaranilShadowfiend wrote: In the correct hands, an assassin or ranger is not going to have a problem out dpsing a rogue though. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <div>in the correct hands a brigand has no problems outdamaging any assassin, ranger whatsoever, your only hope lies in the combat changes hehe</div><hr></blockquote>lol....  as a person who plays both a 50 assassin and my rl friends 50 brig, i can assure you you have no idea what you are talking about.. but then i doubt that comes as much of a suprise :p</span><div></div>

[Kirma]

<DIV>well i can assure you... outside a bruiser or a warlock. No one touches my dmg. I wasnt really looking for a brig vs assasin thread, was just curious if your dmg got dented. a few months ago. assasins kept on my tail dmg wise. but now over 10k is just blatant. and the person wasnt afk. nor sucked. etc....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and ill get some parse asap as i can. i guess. for more details.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Kirmatt on <span class=date_text>07-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:42 PM</span>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <SPAN>lol....  as a person who plays both a 50 assassin and my rl friends 50 brig, i can assure you you have no idea what you are talking about.. but then i doubt that comes as much of a suprise :p<BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I highly doubt that you can play a firends brigand on the same lvl than you play assassin so, that is pretty much bs<BR>

[DementedGerbil]

only class's that out DPS me are monks and zerks, guardians dont count in a raid since he has all those [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] reacts, so ur assassin was just being lazy, assassins can do series dps even half afk assuming they have a mob targeted and arent passed out on the floor

[Mordacion]

I was in a raid with a brigand about a week ago tanknig down Drayeks and during the fight, in which i was master looter and therefore had to pop chests after each wave of adds and clear bodies, I annihilated the brigand on dps. I also managed to tank Misty for 90% of her hp before that. And yes, that is possible because of my group buffs placing me at 100% avoidance (had dirge, troub and warden casting their big defense buff) <div></div>

[Kirma]

<DIV>''I annihilated the brigand on dps'' </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>i never seen an assasin break 400 dps like i do, sorry. but annihilation is hard to believe.. unless the brig was poorly equipped / spells. Ill post parses as soon as our guilded assasin is on.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Note that im also the scout with most strenght game-wide. self buffed im close to 400. give it a week or two. Even troubs dont get that much str.  So dont count just any random people doing the dmg I dish out.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kirmatt on <span class=date_text>07-13-2005</span> <span class=time_text>07:14 PM</span>

[thebigtime]

Most strength game-wide? I'm glad you can make that assumption...rofl. Besides you can buff your str while assassins can not, do you include that in your comparison? What's your UNBUFFED strength, NO imbued ring, NO str buff, NOTHING. In regards to you parse over 400dps and have never seen an assassin do that....wow your assassins must blow. I can easily parse over 500dps and 600dps isn't difficult with the right group. Granted dps is all relative to a myriad of factors and I really don't care what you parse. However I'm quite interested in your str, so please, post your unbuffed strength.

[Kirma]

<P>if you were as paranoid as much about str. then you'd know it isnt assumptions. i sent out tons of tells. checked a lot of profile. even troubadors are 30 str short of me self buffed.</P> <P>Ill post unbuffed after raids.</P>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kirmatt wrote:<div></div> <p>if you were as paranoid as much about str. then you'd know it isnt assumptions. i sent out tons of tells. checked a lot of profile. even troubadors are 30 str short of me self buffed.</p> <p>Ill post unbuffed after raids.</p><hr></blockquote>that's really funny lol, suprised of course you didn't post your profile.  I shouldn't have to make the obvious point that no matter how much str you have geared for yourself, any troub could do the same and then still have their buffs on top of it.  </span><div></div>

[Kirma]

<P>oooook. </P> <P>my name was posted. my server was posted. what more do you need to check a profile? go ahead. That is my mitigitation gear though.</P> <P>Str im at 275 no buff what so ever, just checked after act of wars. a lil bit over 340 self buffed. Ill host a pic later on tommorow. too busy farming atm =</P>

[Jakr]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>your eq2 profile reads 210 str. and im assuming thats unbuffed. and it is, like you said your "mit gear" even though some of it is light armor.   but , not tryin to call you on your claim or anything just  making an observation.  maybe with rings,  certain gear  ,self buffs (idk what brigands get as far as a self str buff) and potions you can get 300 somthing but idk bout 400 self buffed.  seem  sketchy.  i think i could break 350 with a respec.  certain peices of gear and a potion but 400 is pushin it . <div></div><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p> <span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:45 AM</span>

[Jakr]

idk i bet you could get your str  realy high if you wore an assload of  grey gear and  crap like that  but realy..... why loose so much on every other field for 4 more str <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<P>you do not lose in any field with wearing the right pieces of gear (none of them gray, nor full fabled), I can do 300str/260agi/130Sta solo, buffed and with legendary potions, substract 7 of each with common potions and kirmatt has better gear than me (Stizeyo, Splitpaw, picked all traits in agi)</P> <P> </P> <P>brigands can self buff str for roughly 30, depending on skill upgrades, other than that its all gear, ring buffs, food and potions</P>

[Jakr]

hrmmm 30 is a nice chunk but idk.  400  even with pots' and rings it still surprises me.  unless there is some  thing about potions or rings stacking with other rings and potions i dont know about.  ( i never use potions  to lazy to buy em <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) <div></div>

[Gyilok]

if you reread his posts he says his goal is 400 and he can get to 340 solo atm

[Kirma]

<P>the eq2 profile hasnt updated my 2nd str doll. seeing i switch em often.</P> <P>My boots. who have strenght, arent even in database either. so that's another chunk</P> <P>And im fairly sure it isnt counting my innate strenght from traits.</P> <P>and yes.. that is my migitation gear. The light bracer is 17 str. and still better AC then player made ebon because of fabled. I do not want any other bracers besides axebringer. And this one was free. why would I keep using medium?</P> <P>If i put str gear on. All my pieces but 1 ring / earring has str. from a minimum to 4 up to 18 per slot.</P>

[WhispersEdge]

<div></div><div></div>Ok so I looked up yours and your guildies equipment, and I dont think its a really fair comparison. No offense to your only guilded assassin, but his gear is low end at best compared to some of the other assassins I have seen. I mean, he is using Bone Razor ffs =x Not to try and rain on your parade, but I'm 100% confident with equal gear that assassin would win if they know what theyre doing. Some of the best equipped assassins would put out <i>way more</i> than that 12k dmg difference that you are claiming to have up on that guy. <p>Message Edited by WhispersEdge on <span class="date_text">07-14-2005</span> <span class="time_text">11:01 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by WhispersEdge on <span class=date_text>07-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:16 AM</span>

[Jakr]

yup i had to look it up, your guildy asssassin  isnt as well geared as you and only has 130 unbuffed str.   you vs him is an unfair  comparrison  by far.  <div></div>

[Triccer]

Hope you'll excuse my slightly unproductive comment, but a thought that strikes me every time I read that kind of thread is: Good thing all the guys that have never ever been outdpsed by anyone don't play in the same guild. All of their egos (but one) would probably be utterly shattered... ;P <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Triccer wrote:<BR>Hope you'll excuse my slightly unproductive comment, but a thought that strikes me every time I read that kind of thread is:<BR>Good thing all the guys that have never ever been outdpsed by anyone don't play in the same guild. All of their egos (but one) would probably be utterly shattered... ;P<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>that is about the reason of these neverending debates

[WhispersEdge]

The original poster should have included a comparison of gear and abilities before posting in another classes forums. I dont think he was intentionally trying to stir up any controversy, but just didnt have a basis for a sound argument or any kind of proof that brigands do more damage, it was all just conjecture. It would be like if I came over to the brig forums, and posted "Hey whats wrong with brigs I stomp them into the ground", then to later find the comparison was made against someone who was using  Bone Razor + treasured weapon while Im using my standard Lunar Ornate + Prismatic. Of course I would stomp them into the ground. Recently I compiled about 3 months of raid parses to get a look at our raid/individual damage, I came out on top among scouts but not by a huge amount more than our swash, yet it did give a really good look at what we did over a long period of time. Having hundreds of raids compared to 1 isolated instance makes something a heck of a lot more viable to make this kind of comparison, and would of course be much more statistically significant. We also have had all of our adept 3s and similar fabled gear. Their only guilded assassin (Im assuming this has to be the basis of his comparison) is wielding a Bone Razor and Chalandria's Fang (his best weapon) against the brigand whose worst weapon is better than that thing. I mean, its apples to onions here, right? I can straight up tell you on many parses I have of the 2 weapons I wield, just the proc damage by itself would account for close to the 12k gap in damage he was describing. This isn't even accounting for the gigantic accompanying leap in autoattack damage that would go from upgrading that assassins weapons to mine for instance, or any number of other well geared assassins here. You also have to account other variables such as group makeup. Being in a group with an inquisitor, berserker, and enchanter while the other guy is sucking it up for the team in the 2 man group tacked to the end of the raid would more than account for the difference as well. If all, or most of the things aforementioned were included in his original post, he would have gotten a much better reaction here. That said, I would love to see a post comparing our classes in similar levels of gear, spells, and ability. If we had a brig I would do it and post the results, maybe someone else here can.

[Mordacion]

Yeah I saw the poor guy down near splitpaw and he's using some pretty bad weapons. Chalandrias and the bone razor are both, well, not good for an assassin. He reallllly needs much better gear before you can make any sort of comparisson dps-wise against him. As-is he's just not equipped to do top-shelf dps. Honestly pristine ebon weapons would do better than either of those two by a fair margin. <div></div>

[Kimira]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thebigtime wrote:<BR>Most strength game-wide? I'm glad you can make that assumption...rofl. Besides you can buff your str while assassins can not, do you include that in your comparison? What's your UNBUFFED strength, NO imbued ring, NO str buff, NOTHING. In regards to you parse over 400dps and have never seen an assassin do that....wow your assassins must blow. <STRONG>I can easily parse over 500dps and 600dps</STRONG> isn't difficult with the right group. Granted dps is all relative to a myriad of factors and I really don't care what you parse. However I'm quite interested in your str, so please, post your unbuffed strength.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Sorry no.<BR>

[Gyilok]

well you also could mention that on eq2players he only has that fang with bone razor, but he could have prismatic (hes wearing bejeweled ring of scales) equipped, but even with that the str value would suck

[thebigtime]

Kimirahi - Sorry No.?     Are you joking? Obviously 500 dps isn't achievable all the time but I've broken that quite a few times and really is not hard at all. Hell last night on Drayek's I was completely naked except for 2 weapons and my bow. No dolls, no armor, no jewelry, nothing at all (Drayek's is a joke we like to mix it up for fun mind you, it was a bet) and I parsed 330ish on Misty, I believe it was 332 but I don't remember the exact number, so 500 is not the least bit hard on certain raids. Please don't counter with how easy/short Misty is etc. I know how easy he is, I know how short he is, its merely an example but doesn't change the fact that 500 dps or even 600 dps is QUITE attainable especially on raids like the prismatic drakota where they have low mitigation vs. all weapon types.

[WhispersEdge]

<span><blockquote><hr>thebigtime wrote:Kimirahi - Sorry No.?     Are you joking? Obviously 500 dps isn't achievable all the time but I've broken that quite a few times and really is not hard at all. Hell last night on Drayek's I was completely naked except for 2 weapons and my bow. No dolls, no armor, no jewelry, nothing at all (Drayek's is a joke we like to mix it up for fun mind you, it was a bet) and I parsed 330ish on Misty, I believe it was 332 but I don't remember the exact number, so 500 is not the least bit hard on certain raids. Please don't counter with how easy/short Misty is etc. I know how easy he is, I know how short he is, its merely an example but doesn't change the fact that 500 dps or even 600 dps is QUITE attainable especially on raids like the prismatic drakota where they have low mitigation vs. all weapon types. <hr></blockquote>Whoever is using your parser program needs a new one then, sorry but not a chance. </span><div></div>

[Kimira]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WhispersEdge wrote:<BR><SPAN><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> thebigtime wrote:<BR>Kimirahi - Sorry No.?<BR><BR>    Are you joking? Obviously 500 dps isn't achievable all the time but I've broken that quite a few times and really is not hard at all. Hell last night on Drayek's I was completely naked except for 2 weapons and my bow. No dolls, no armor, no jewelry, nothing at all (Drayek's is a joke we like to mix it up for fun mind you, it was a bet) and I parsed 330ish on Misty, I believe it was 332 but I don't remember the exact number, so 500 is not the least bit hard on certain raids. Please don't counter with how easy/short Misty is etc. I know how easy he is, I know how short he is, its merely an example but doesn't change the fact that 500 dps or even 600 dps is QUITE attainable especially on raids like the prismatic drakota where they have low mitigation vs. all weapon types. <BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Whoever is using your parser program needs a new one then, sorry but not a chance. <BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Aye, once again <STRONG>sorry no</STRONG> :robotwink:<BR>

[Skratttt]

<DIV>600 dps??</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[ERROR]

600 dps... on a raid mob? I've never gotten anywhere close to that. I usualy parse around 175 - 250, depending on the mob and what it resists. I'm not calling anyone a liar.. but I just don't see 600 dps happening on any of the current raid mobs. <div></div>

[Kokus]

<DIV>What are you talking about? I had 5910 dps before.. oh wait.. heh.. Yeah.. 600 dps against a raid mob. That would be a sight to see.</DIV>

[Jakr]

<div></div>300-maybe 400 on maybe a  mob like  underworld summoner wich lasts  no more then  2 minutes long.    but yeah 600 is just straight bs . ive also done enough dps  where it broke  my parser..  was an easy 7k dps but    assassinating a lvl 2 mob for almost 7k does that lol. <div></div><p>Message Edited by Jakron on <span class=date_text>07-18-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 AM</span>

[thebigtime]

Here is the parse of Misty in Drayek's earlier today with a decent group. 10:30:38    10:31:44    00:00:57    Misty    30294    531.47    0    N             start-          end-         duration-    mob-  damage-   dps- I think you when I'm saying 500/600 you guys are taking it as I always claim to parse that, which we all know is impossible. When I say 500/600 I mean short/easy fights with low mitigation values etc. Take it as you will, I'm not trying to say I am better or worse than anyone else, just merely affirming the fact that 500/600 dps is quite attainable on specific fights.

[WhispersEdge]

<div></div>That is a one minute parse on a ^^^ and not a named, wouldnt be hard to hit that much. Show it on a named for a  sustained time, anyone can do that to Misty by popping assassinate at the end of one minute. But yes I think we are talking about apples and oranges. <p>Message Edited by WhispersEdge on <span class=date_text>07-19-2005</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Jakr]

well from you parse the fight lasted 57 seconds wich explains the high dps. on a  real raid mob  500 dps wouldnt be achievable.  <div></div>