Assassin or Brigand?

[Camelli]

Hey everyone, I have a level 8 scout, and am not sure which class to choose when the time comes. (If I choose rogue, i will be brigand, if predator assassin.)  I'm wondering which class I would enjoy the most, so I have a few questions. 1. Which class is better at head-on fighting(less stealth based class) 2. Which class has a higher dps? 3. Which class can take damage better? Thanks in advance for any responses/replies. <div></div>

[hakai su]

<P>1. most of our attacks are stealth based.  Altho I dont have a huge problem soloing, we are severly limited on our frontal attacks.  I find myself waiting a lot for them to refresh.</P> <P>2. that is definatly us.  If played and equiped right assassins put out a lot of DPS.  Yes, there might be a fighter out there that can match or ocationally out DPS us, but if played right we do major damage.</P> <P>3. that one.. i think were matched on.  I'm thinking we both wear medium armor.</P> <P> </P>

[Ahlspiess]

<DIV>1.) Brigands are better at front attacks because they have more CA's in that area. Assassin's are better at kiting because they have more bow based CA's</DIV> <DIV>2.) The assassin as long as they don't have to fight head on toe to toe. Brigands if you do.</DIV> <DIV>3.) They both have the same stat gain and wear the same armor so no major difference.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

how many attacks do assassins have that can be used frontal?

[Putka]

<P>lingering blow,  seeping wound,  infected wound,  cripple,  punch blade,  condemning blade,  assassinate,  massacre,  shadow assault, paralyzing strike and garrote can be used from the front. Also 2 of the 3 bow attacks can.</P><p>Message Edited by Putka on <span class=date_text>06-11-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:18 AM</span>

[Putka]

heh actually we only have 3 attacks that need to be used from the back.

[Kelst]

<P>There were times when I wished I  had went Brigand, mostly during CR's wishing i could group stealth.</P> <P>Then I go an hit something for 1200+ at lvl 32 and watch all the brigands poop thier pants, then I solo a yellow/orange mob with barely a scratch on me and get the ....  "Heya, its soandso, this is my new alt.  I just had to try an assassin after grouping with you" tell.  IM happy with my choice even if CR's take a bit longer *ive never ever had trouble getting my own shard, but will always fight back in if we can; better exp that way*</P>

[ag]

Assassin all the way. They're <u>vastly</u> superior in every way to Brigands.Don't let anyone sway your opinion on this one, go Assassin.

[Putka]

<DIV>lol agra that joke became old the 2nd day after release.. seriously.</DIV>

[Mordacion]

I've never had a brigand come even close to me as far as DPS goes from 20-50. Not even once. <div></div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

When someone asks me who the best scout is, I simply tell them...  "I am" <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<P>hehe I thought something like that, so all who say brigands are better off face to face, please forget it </P> <P>one more question: do your stealth attacks all require a position behind the mob? or just some? because if not they can be used while soloing too</P> <P> </P> <P>and to mordacion: i had the same with assassins</P><p>Message Edited by Gyilok on <span class=date_text>06-12-2005</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 AM</span>

[Putka]

<DIV>Only 1 stealth attack requires you to be behind the mob.. but that doesn't mean we can just use em while soloing, since a mob who's attacking you will keep breaking stealth.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<P>I can manage to fire off stealth attack while soloing and I dont mean the opening attackl by that, face-to face and I dont have quick cast stealth skills like assassins, only a 3sec cast sneaks, its all about timing</P> <P>its not a 100% success, but since the attack itself is 1sec cast only I can manage to fire it off before the mob hits me to break invis pretty often</P> <DIV>you can also experiment with cheap shot-stealth attack combo, but if the mob is packed with dot and poisons, the stun will break anyway before you want it to happen</DIV>

[sociobiologi]

<P>Brigands do have Ruse, hitting for 600-1600 at adept 3 on a 60 sec timer. After lv 40 ruse looses value and brigands do not get skills making up for the loss. </P> <P>At level 50 however, brigands are one of the best mele debuffers in the game (debilitate, disable, wrangle). DPS, a bit behind assassins.</P> <P>GUK</P> <P>Mutley, lv 43 Brigand</P> <P>               29 Provisioner</P>

[scivias]

someone mentioned lingering blow,  seeping wound,  infected wound,  cripple,  punch blade,  condemning blade,  assassinate,  massacre,  shadow assault, paralyzing strike and garrote Just to make that point clear, of this 11 attacks 7 can only be used when you are stealthed, thus rendering them extremely difficult, if not useless at all, when the mob is attacking you. basically at lvl 50 I have 4 attacks left when a mob is pounding me, and I am pounding him. <div></div>

[Gyilok]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sociobiologist wrote:<BR> <P>Brigands do have Ruse, hitting for 600-1600 at adept 3 on a 60 sec timer. After lv 40 ruse looses value and brigands do not get skills making up for the loss. </P> <P>At level 50 however, brigands are one of the best mele debuffers in the game (debilitate, disable, wrangle). DPS, a bit behind assassins.</P> <P>GUK</P> <P>Mutley, lv 43 Brigand</P> <P>               29 Provisioner</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>hey, take a look on your skill table or the brigand issues list before you say such silly things</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>the only real debuff we got is debilitate, and some defense,parry, agility, strength and wisdom(must be very useful) attached to various skills, almost all melee classes get similar ones</DIV> <DIV>disable (was a 30 sec unbreakable root a few months before, which could not be used because of the idiotic way our stealth works, is now a 80% movement speed debuff for 10 secs)is only a low dmg hit every 10 secs with added agro because of the 80% movement speed debuff (extra lame)</DIV> <DIV>wrangle is broken since release, because it's debuff instantly disappears the second the mob gets hit (its because of the movement speed debuff that messes it all up, super lame), so we either got to use the training mug, or if you didnt pick it you'r stuck with the 1 tier lower version mug</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>dps a bit behind assassins: no comment here way too many discussions around</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Graton]

i'm an assassin but i suggest you go brigand. it's not that i dont' like my class, i love my toon but there are more assassins out there than you can shake a stick at and virtually no brigands. brigands do slightly less damage then assassin's but they debuff well and they stack beautifully with assassins. my highest melee hits all came grouped with a brigand. in many dungeons group invis is absolutely huge despite how dismissive so many people are of it. here are some concrete examples: 1. permafrost - in a group working on statue quests, lots of people at different stages. probably never would have been able to get it done for everyone but we had group invis. with group invis no one complained about having to redo any of the quests because we could invis back to the statue room in 2 minutes after each quest. 90 minutes later 6 happy people all had their necklaces. 2. solusek's eye - i'm in a group that needs the giants. we have no group invis. 40 minutes later we've fought to the giants, tank gets a page and has to leave. we evac to zone entrance to get a replacement and have to fight all the way down again. everyone realizing this decides to skip any more grouping for the night and logs. 3. cazic thule - one of the name mobs for screaming mace is up, i'm invis and scouting ahead. i tell my group to hurry as fast as they can but they have no other invisser. they hug the walls and move as fast as they can but by the time they are halfway to the temple another group has pulled and killed the mob. if i was a brigand we'd have all been on top of the temple and we'd have gotten him. anyway i think you'll be happy either way but if you'd like to be happy and unique go brigand. <div></div>

[sociobiologi]

<DIV>Guylok silly of me to say brigands are one of the best melee debuffers in the game? Debilitate does from what I hear alone make it so. Yes some other debuffs are broken and useless, but that does not change the fact that debilitate is tremendously powerful.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Try to be a bit more polite next time you reply as well.</DIV>

[Gyilok]

<P>debilitate is nowhere tremendously powerful, it is nice though</P> <P>shwash can debuff slash by 1,7-1,9k, and assassins debuff pierce with quite a lot I believe, I dont know the exact numbers, but sk-s got hefty melee debuffs aswell and dirges are not so bad off either, what I meant under being silly was that from the 3 debuffs you mentioned one is not a melee debuff at all, while the other is broken since day one</P>

[Novalos]

I struggled with this decision myself, I ended up going Assassin though and I'm digging it.  I will say this though, the Brigand lvl 20 fun spell is pure gold. <div></div>

[Ahlspiess]

<DIV>Scivias is right about stealthed attacks. Which is the reason why I believe Brigands are better toe to toe then assassins. Do I recommend a Brigand go face something head on? Certainly not!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is a list of our attacks. Hope it is of some use!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Normal Attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lingering Blow, Seeping Wound, Infected wound Cripple and Paralyzing Strike</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mask of Night - Flanking / Rear Attack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Stealthed attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Punch Blade, Condeming Blade, Assassinate and Garrote</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Bloodthirster - Flanking / Rear Attack</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Massacre and Shadow Assault - Area of effect Spells</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Ranged Attacks</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Spitting Viper - Flanking / Rear Attack</FONT></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff></FONT> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>Faltering Blast and Assassin's shot</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cripple is on a 3 min timer. Condeming Blade is on a 5 min. Assassinate is on a 60 min.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Garrote & Paralyzing Strike don't effect Epic Mobs</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ffffff>I must admit though the current info on the web about brigands isn't worth much. So if any brigand out there could post info about what attacks they possess at 50 it would be appreciated!</FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Ahlspiess on <span class=date_text>06-17-2005</span> <span class=time_text>03:39 PM</span>

[Gyilok]

<P><EM>attacks that dont need flank/rear or stealth:</EM></P> <P>concealed blade (low crushing dmg, 9sec), dirty blow (low dmg, 30sec), subdue (low-medium dmg,  1min), aggravated assault (2 low dmg hits,  20 sec), desperate thrust (low-medium dmg, 20sec), waylay( medium dmg,  20sec), forceful negotiation (AOE, low dmg, 20sec), ruse (high dmg, frontal only, 1min)</P> <P><EM>flank attacks</EM></P> <P>disable (low-medium dmg 10sec), shiv (low dmg+dot, 30sec), gambit (medium-high dmg, 10sec), </P> <P><EM>rear attacks</EM></P> <P>craven delight (high dmg+ dot, 30 sec), murderous rake (low dmg  1min)</P> <P><EM>stealth attack</EM></P> <P>run through (high dmg+ dot, 10sec, no stealth skill to make it effective)</P> <P><EM>ranged</EM></P> <P>blunted arrows (cant be used on epics...)</P> <P> </P> <P>not complete descriptions, but this is about the list of damage skills a lvl 50 brigand is cycling</P>

[Aere]

  An assassin that says they Always outdamage every brigand they come across,   obviously has never grouped with Spite on the Nektulos server.   If your an assassin in the same group with him you best bring your A game or he will hand you your [Removed for Content]..    I have personally seen this brigand out damage every single assassin he's come across on the nek server. e's grouped with Nektulos's  top assassins and beat them all,  including me..     Though now we trade rounds,  it still takes more then just gear to beat him.   You better have darn fast hands at the keyboad and have every single one of your ability refresh timers memorized cold.   Cause if you miss a beat,  your done...      So to say assassins out dps brigands every time or we have much better dps then them is foolish.   True skill as always comes down to the person at the keyboard.  That goes for any class..   Which I have said many times,   so choose your class on personal choice.   Pick what your going to enjoy playing the most.   Don't listen to others when they say one is better then the other.   If your good,   your good and you'll beat other people no matter which class you choose..   Tarathiel 50 Assassin Nektulos   <div></div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

<span><blockquote><hr>Aereas wrote:  An assassin that says they Always outdamage every brigand they come across,   obviously has never grouped with Spite on the Nektulos server.   If your an assassin in the same group with him you best bring your A game or he will hand you your [Removed for Content]..    I have personally seen this brigand out damage every single assassin he's come across on the nek server. e's grouped with Nektulos's  top assassins and beat them all,  including me..     Though now we trade rounds,  it still takes more then just gear to beat him.   You better have darn fast hands at the keyboad and have every single one of your ability refresh timers memorized cold.   Cause if you miss a beat,  your done...      So to say assassins out dps brigands every time or we have much better dps then them is foolish.   True skill as always comes down to the person at the keyboard.  That goes for any class..   Which I have said many times,   so choose your class on personal choice.   Pick what your going to enjoy playing the most.   Don't listen to others when they say one is better then the other.   If your good,   your good and you'll beat other people no matter which class you choose..   Tarathiel 50 Assassin Nektulos   <div></div><hr></blockquote>best post on this thread yet <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Thum]

<DIV>All I know is.. I was in a group killing Nightbloods in RV... and there was a Brigand out DPSing me by like 4000 dmg. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am 42 and he was 43, and he was owning my [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] in DPS.  Any idea why?  I have really good stats for my character, am wielding SSOY, and a Pristine Ebon Kris with 13 agi, and like 8 str, doing a proc for over 200 dmg.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also have agi near 200 and str near 180.. Usually my DPS owns all melee, but brigands at my level.. all seem to out DPS me.</DIV>

[Khazadul]

It is definitely all about the person playing the character class. I'm a 28 Brigand on Befallen server and I take pride in having a really decent pattern of CAs that I rattle off during a fight without having any downtime, and so far, haven't run into anyone who could out DPS me at my level, except a ranger I ran into tonight. We were trading top DPS spots all night long. He had a very good pattern going as well that was tough to beat. I know that if an assassin has a good pattern for CAs, they will also be extremely tough to beat. Luckily, SOE balanced classes for EQ2 much better than Verant did with EQ1. Any scout DPS class can rival each other if done properly - considering close to equal levels and CA levels (adept/master). I gotta give love to all my scout <SPAN>brethren</SPAN>!!! The competition makes us all better. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Eynon</DIV>

[Ahlspiess]

<P>One other thing to note! A Lot of Assassin skills are reliant on piercing damage. </P> <P>Examples</P> <P>Condemning Blade, Bloodthirster, Spitting Viper, Infected Wound and Seeping wound</P> <P>And of course we have skills that don't work on epics. Such as:</P> <P>Garrote & Paralyzing Strike</P> <P>So depending on what you plan on doing. If you are going for end game raids then I wouldn't recommend assassin's.</P> <P>A piercing immune monster is VERY difficult to fight. Especially  when there is another assassin in the raid our skills DO NOT stack well. </P> <P>Skills such as Punch blade & Lingering Blow do not stack with other assassins punch blade so you can't use it for a period of time. </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Putka]

as long as youre both the same level and have the same rank of a certain combat art, they do "stack". but I like using murderous intent to block them anyway so I can leave em in the dust with DPS! :smileyvery-happy: <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><cackle></DIV>

[Naughtesn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Putka wrote:<BR>as long as youre both the same level and have the same rank of a certain combat art, they do "stack". but I like using murderous intent to block them anyway so I can leave em in the dust with DPS! :smileyvery-happy: <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Mwahahaha - thanks for that tip....</P> <P>But to agree with an earlier poster, if you are planning on a lot of high end raiding - assassin prob isn't the best choice.  Also, we are always looking for grp invisers - in groups very helpful as someone noted earlier.  But for guild goals, indispensible:  getting to contested mobs (Borxx, Alangria, Knubed, Hand in SE, Asphyxia) is a hell of lot easier with grp invis, prismatics (run to naggy) is a pain without group invis, GEB heritage - same as naggy (BoF is deep enough in to make it a [expletive ninja'd by Faarbot] to take several runs there), getting ppl SE teleporter access quickly.</P> <P>A brigand's utility will get you into raids and support situations more often than if you were an assassin.  But brigands have the same problem with pierce/slash resistant or immune raid mobs..</P> <P>That said, I enjoy my assassin tremendously, in a raiding guild.  I wouldn't trade my ability to kite for anything.  About to ding 49, and I can count the number of groups I have been in on 2 hands - but I get tells immediately if I do put LFG up.  The best of both worlds - effective soloing and wanted in grps.  But honestly, you make the class with your skills, I'm sure no matter what you choose you can make yourself happy. </P> <P>(BTW - I still keep Hagar's Befuddling Strike on my hot bar - lev 20? training - separate reuse time from anythign else - so thats a nice little 80ish art I use to fill in CA refresh and to finish HOs. - no stealth or position needed - no worky on epics tho.)<BR></P>

[FrostyXN]

<span><blockquote><hr>Putka wrote:heh actually we only have 3 attacks that need to be used from the back. <div></div><hr></blockquote>Might be kind of late for my response, but, Putka, have you ever tried using a stealth attack from teh front of the mob solo ? (solo=you have aggro = you will be in stealth for about .5 seconds and not able to get any stealth attacks off.)</span><div></div>

[Putka]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>FrostyXN wrote:</P> <P><SPAN>Might be kind of late for my response, but, Putka, have you ever tried using a stealth attack from teh front of the mob solo ? (solo=you have aggro = you will be in stealth for about .5 seconds and not able to get any stealth attacks off.)<BR></P></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>to quote myself from the 1st page:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV><EM>Only 1 stealth attack requires you to be behind the mob.. but that doesn't mean we can just use em while soloing, since a mob who's attacking you will keep breaking stealth.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>Silly, of course I know, but I was just answering that unpleasant brigand's question.</DIV></DIV>