Updates from the test server

[Darqz]

Guys, Not sure if you've all seen this but this is straight from the test server. <p></p> <DIV>Assassin changes: </DIV> <p></p> <DIV>- Eolorn's Vanishing now drops in combat and the reuse timer has been removed. </DIV> - The following arts now drop in combat, the cast time has been changed to 1 second, and the reuse timer has been removed: - Disappear - Vanish - Slip Away - Evade and Vanish no longer share the same reuse timer. - Espionage now includes both a see invisible and see stealth effect. - Murder's Flight now includes both a see invisible and see stealth effect. - The following spells or combat arts had their reuse timer removed: - Greth's Willing Scout - The following spells or combat arts no longer toggle: - Friendly Shadows - Lethal Resolve - Creeping Impetus - Mask of Night <p></p> Predator changes: <p></p> - Blade Flurry no longer toggles, does not expire, and the reuse timer has been changed to 6 seconds. - The proc effects on the following spells or combat arts now deal direct damage instead of granting an additional attack: - Blade Flurry - The following spells or combat arts no longer toggle: - Survival Instincts <p></p> <p></p> I did not see a follow up about "April fools day we are secretly ninja nerfing you" so there looks like hope at the end of the rainbow.<p>Message Edited by Darqzen on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:45 AM</span>

[khalysta]

<P>well to some the vanish/eolorns is a nerf even though most realize it wasnt intended in any way <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Overall its a good patch but I wish they would fix massacre and fix blade flurry so that it doesnt drain power or block blood scent.</P>

[syniste]

Blade flurry blocks the blood scent proc?  I didn't know that... probably why i never see it...

[Lo]

Bone razor will be boosted too, for those of you who did the quest . <div></div>

[Harmon]

<P>The unintented stealthing being fixed is going to finally ruin the Assassin class without a doubt.  The only way I ever have a chance to kill an even con or higher solo mob is with this unintented side effect.  Without this 'permanent' stealth, as an assassin you are never going to be getting off those special attacks, all of which require being in stealth.  When I was L20 it didn't matter, my straight melee damage + HOs was sufficient to rip through the low hp of those mobs.  L40 mobs are a whole different story.</P> <P>I consistently watch priest classes solo green^^ (and not the almost grey kind) and, here is the kicker, ***EVEN WITH THE STEALTH BUG I STILL CANNOT BEAT THE WEAKEST GREEN^^***</P> <P>Somebody said, just stun it and run around back to use your CAs.  That was worth a laugh.  I haven't done that trick since I was L8.  Stunned mobs usually just turn to face you; yeah it's bugged.  But even then I don't want to have to work that hard.  Nobody else does.  So I've stunned the mob, and it isn't buggily turning to face me.  I'm not going to get off a stealth, get behind it, and launch a CA in the time it is stunned.  It's simply not viable or reliable.  Meanwhile, you've got a priest just standing there blasting away and healing themselves.  No arrow costs, no poison costs, barely losing life mowing down heroic encounters.</P> <P>So when all of a sudden, this talent for stealthing in combat is suddenly removed (the only way I could ever even consider trying to kill most above level solo encounters, let alone low green, high grey heroic mind you), I think a lot of assassin's will just hang up the towel.</P> <P>Since I can't solo any experience worthwhile, I tend to go around and do quests where the mobs finally greyed out to me.  Even then I've had to evac on greyed out heroic mobs more times than I care to count.</P> <P>L44 assassin versus L35^^ + 4 L35 mobs (Clay Insurgent group in Runnyeye):</P> <P>With level 200 poison, using all three arrow adept1 CAs with fulginate arrows to start, PGT/SBD, and the stealthing trick, I still end the fight half the time in the orange/red and completely out of power about half way through.  L35 is really, really grey at 44.  And then I watch a priest 2 levels below me roll in and literally steamroll the whole encounter, barely any life lost and at half power.</P> <P>Yeah, we're balanced...</P> <P>Stealthing in combat was a bug, it needs to be fixed - but only after the balancing is done.  You can't expect people playing an already broken class to get hit with this and not get any improvements.</P> <P>Thoughts of a L44 Assassin.</P> <P>Message Edited by Harmonic on <SPAN class=date_text>04-01-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:51 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Harmonic on <span class=date_text>04-01-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:12 PM</span>

[Mordacion]

Considering all the things we need worked on I find it to be a complete slap in the face that we get a fix to a bugged skill that actually gave us half a chance to solo and have the timer on our fun spell removed. I think I can speak for many of us when I say Big F'in Deal <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Tatali]

<span><blockquote><hr>Harmonic wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>The unintented stealthing being fixed is going to finally ruin the Assassin class without a doubt.  The only way I ever have a chance to kill an even con or higher solo mob is with this unintented side effect.  Without this 'permanent' stealth, as an assassin you are never going to be getting off those special attacks, all of which require being in stealth.  </p><hr></blockquote>So... you'd rather leave it broken/bugged/exploited so they never fix the class? Its all these yahoo exploiters running around saying, "Omg, we're phat DPSz already!  j00 just need 2 learn sum skilz and play ur class rite! u suXorz!" that make people think nothing is wrong with us. Maybe they'll finally realize that turning attack on and off 10 times a fight is excessive, maybe they'd realize that many things can cause stealth attacks to fail (AE, lag, etc), maybe they'll see that most assassin arts aren't available on a whim... then taking all that into account, make the class function better and be the damage dealer its supposed to be instead of just a second rate evac button. </span><div></div>

[Harmon]

<DIV>Tataline, 5 stars man.  I agree completely with you.  I do want it fixed, after they repair all the things you just mentioned.  We should never had to 'exploit' to do average dps.</DIV>

[NocteBla]

What is meant by "toggle" on the Combat Arts?

[Klip]

<DIV>Although I can't speak for higher levels, at level 36 I solo zygoth the watcher in obelisk of lost souls for loot(level 39^^). If you have not gotten a hex doll yet, the agi hex doll has a snare effect on it that lasts about 3min or osmething. That with my own snare would make him run  very slowly making it very easy to kite him. You also don't have to stand still for the 8seconds to cast it. I also use a shield and a pgt in main hand for the times that he does resist the snare and my own is not up. If I didn't read these boards, I would have strongly believed that ranges/assassins were the best soloers in the game. </DIV>

[Fros]

<DIV>Soloed quite alot of named with bow kiting heh, there isnt much challenge with it as long as it dont root / snare / run at some insane speed. </DIV>

[Sarevh]

<div></div><div></div>They are really looking at that list of problems you wrote right  khalysta? <a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=8056"><span></span></a><a href="../view_profile?user.id=8056" target="_blank"><span></span></a>Worst Update Ever ~_~<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sarevhok on <span class="date_text">04-03-2005</span><span class="time_text">08:20 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Sarevhok on <span class=date_text>04-03-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 PM</span>

[Harmon]

<DIV>People talking about soloing group mobs blue and higher with bow kiting...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Congratulations, you just spent a stack of arrows worth of money and wasted away about 5-10 minutes of your life for what?  0.5 xp?  to say you can do it?  Here's a caveat; bow kiting doesn't work in confined dungeons when the spawns are not spaced out enough.  Try bow kiting the nameds in Runnyeye at L36 in the chef's room or the mess hall.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So, let's stick to apples to apples comparison.  No other class is spending money / wasting that much time killing NPCs.  They can, in fact, 'toe to toe' with NPCs that would destroy us.  For two simple reasons, in my mind.  Our mitigation/avoidance is poor and our damage output ***FROM THE FRONT*** is terrible.  We are soloing remember?  I do so-so damage in groups when I'm positioned correctly.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Posting that you disagree is fine, I can't understand why - but it's your opinion.  Posting that assassins can solo just fine when bow kiting isn't really addressing the problem here and it just clouds the whole issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You've got half the people posting that they can solo fine, but that's all they say.  So come to find out it's bow kiting that people are talking about.  Or people taking advantage of the vanish trick to increase their damage output.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>We'll see what happens once the Vanish trick doesn't work anymore.  I'm sure the people saying that they can solo fine will be back here complaining that our damage output is subpar like the rest of us have been saying for months.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for bow kiting, I do it on quest mobs in open areas when I can't find any help as a last resort.  I don't consider that soloing, I'd call it desperate engagement.</DIV>

[Harmon]

<P>double post</P><p>Message Edited by Harmonic on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[Harmon]

<P>triple post, congrats sony's messageboard...</P><p>Message Edited by Harmonic on <span class=date_text>04-04-2005</span> <span class=time_text>10:15 AM</span>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

I really hate all the complaining about assassin's not being good enough in a new thread everyday.  But you know I was giving SoE the benifit of the doubt when I thought this glitch wouldn't be fixed until scouts got retuned.  We are kinda lacking, but the sneak bug almost made up for it.  But now, this is kinda like a slap in the face.  They don't know how to retune scouts to make them fit into the balance of the game instantly, that is understable.  If scouts just got a huge DPS boost it could unbalance many encounters without proper adjustment.  But boy, they sure know how to just us scouts worse, that is no trouble.  I just don't see the point in making this change right now.  It's no secret about the bug, it wasn't unbalanced because everybody did it.  If they wanted to retune scouts, there is no reason they couldn't wait until then to make this change. <div></div>

[Cah]

<DIV>Hey, at least priests are going to get their dps increased in lu#7... [Removed for Content] ._.</DIV>

[Klip]

<P>Had a very long reply stating numbers and situations etc but it got erased because my login timer or whatever went out and I had to relog in :smileymad: I hope they fix this.... pretty depressed that my 30min post poofed.<BR><BR>Harmonic, to reply to your post, I usually understand an "apples to apples" comparison as something that compares the whole picture, and not just looking just at toe to toe combat, or just the cost of the fight without looking at the reward. <BR><BR>I thank you for your congratulations, for yes, I have spent a stack of carbonite arrows(20s) and a charge of poison(4g for a vial, 60s for a charge) and wasted away about 5-10(more like 3min to kill him) minutes of my life for 2.4%xp with vitality, to say I can do it, and a minimal of 3g of loot. Yes, bow kiting doesn't work in dungeons(other than obelisk that has a safe spot at ent). I can not kill nameds in Runneyeye at level 36. I can, however, kill nameds in Enchanted Lands at level 36. There are about the same number of them out there too, and with track they are spottable. <BR><BR>I do not fight toe to toe with a mob, ever. I fight behind the mob in groups, and away from the mob solo. So I cannot testify against your toe-to-toe combat comparison and I see no reason it would qualify in the comparison. <BR><BR>I'm sorry, I had more arguments but I'm burned out after the post poofing. I have no intention of flaming everyone that says assassins need an upgrade, cuz I believe so to, with a guild bruiser 3 levels under me doing comparable or better dps than me. I just don't see how you can say bow kiting is moot and only clouds the whole issue. Its benefitial to everyone that can do it money wise and xp wise if you put your heart to it. Even if no other class needs to spend money for arrows and poisons, no other class would be able to kill a yellow or orange named mob in under 10min. <BR></P>

[Bobbubski]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>ZaranilShadowfiend wrote:<BR></P> <P>If they wanted to retune scouts, there is no reason they couldn't wait until then to make this change.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>if you read moorguard's post why they are waiting on priest tunning and the like for LU7 vs. LU6, he mentions something along the line of the magnitude of changes going in to a variety of issues.  (perhaps someone can find the link and post).  anyway, my point is lets wait and see if they do in fact address the scout issue more in line w/ increasing our useability or at the least decreasing our inability (ie: vs. raid mobs and such).  my hope is that it is just too soon to tell what they are planning en toto for LU7.  keep your fingers crossed, k?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Bobbubski]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Klipto wrote:<BR> <P>Even if no other class needs to spend money for arrows and poisons, no other class would be able to kill a yellow or orange named mob in under 10min.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>although i tend to agree more so w/ harmonic on the factors of the 'apples to apples" discussion, this is a very good point.  this has even saved my group from time to time vs a tough mob or additional and making the difference of a full group wipe and having to make our way back.  by kiting the mob i could then rez the priest.  this type of situation (kiting orange ^^ types) has happend in enough clutch occurances that it warrants mention.</DIV>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> ZaranilShadowfiend wrote:<BR>I really hate all the complaining about assassin's not being good enough in a new thread everyday.  But you know I was giving SoE the benifit of the doubt when I thought this glitch wouldn't be fixed until scouts got retuned.  We are kinda lacking, but the sneak bug almost made up for it.  But now, this is kinda like a slap in the face.  They don't know how to retune scouts to make them fit into the balance of the game instantly, that is understable.  If scouts just got a huge DPS boost it could unbalance many encounters without proper adjustment.  But boy, they sure know how to just us scouts worse, that is no trouble.  I just don't see the point in making this change right now.  It's no secret about the bug, it wasn't unbalanced because everybody did it.  If they wanted to retune scouts, there is no reason they couldn't wait until then to make this change.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I never did it.  Granted, I agree we defintely need work, but not everyone used that vanish tactic.</P> <P>To each their own is all...  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[khalysta]

Don't forget that while its not mentioned by the original poster but there are changes going in regarding poisons.  They will finally scale as we have wanted and go with a min value of the start of a tier and max of the end.  So a level 50 for example will now have a white con poison rather than a gray.  This should in some ways improve us at the high end since poisons should hit more raid mobs as well as stuff in sol eye and perma. It's not a complete fix but at least our basic melee will be where its supposed to be.  It's a small change I know but good nevertheless. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[sag]

What is meant by "toggle" on the Combat Arts? <DIV>---------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>anyone know?</DIV>

[Kven]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> sagun wrote:<BR>What is meant by "toggle" on the Combat Arts? <DIV>---------------------------------------------------------------</DIV> <DIV>anyone know?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>At the moment, here is how Friendly Shadows line works ....</P> <P>You cast it, it stays up for 5 minutes.  The problem is, the button does NOT gray out until you </P> <P>  A) hit it again [hence toggle] </P> <P>  B) let 5 minutes pass</P> <P> </P> <P>Either way you have to wait for the full 600 seconds of refresh time to use it again.  </P> <P>Which makes it a 5 minute buff with 10 minute recast.  </P> <P>When they remove the 'toggle' aspect (making it gray out immediately as a normal skill / spell would), the 600 second timer starts when the 5 minute buff starts.  </P> <P>So now you can cast it immediately after it falls now, so keeping it up at all times, just more of a hassle than a 15-minute buff like most of our others.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>(Spaced it out to avoid long paragraph reading)</P> <P> </P>

[BaruMonk]

<span><blockquote><hr>Harmonic wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>The unintented stealthing being fixed is going to finally ruin the Assassin class without a doubt.  The only way I ever have a chance to kill an even con or higher solo mob is with this unintented side effect.  Without this 'permanent' stealth, as an assassin you are never going to be getting off those special attacks, all of which require being in stealth.  When I was L20 it didn't matter, my straight melee damage + HOs was sufficient to rip through the low hp of those mobs.  L40 mobs are a whole different story.</p> <p>I consistently watch priest classes solo green^^ (and not the almost grey kind) and, here is the kicker, ***EVEN WITH THE STEALTH BUG I STILL CANNOT BEAT THE WEAKEST GREEN^^***</p>......<hr></blockquote> Just tossing in my 2 cents -- I can consistently solo kill blue mobs in Feerrott at 40, and whites also, though less consistently. I have many adept 1 skills, I use player-made poisons, I have adequate armor, a pair of nice dual weild weapons, and I DO NOT USE THE EXPLOIT, and I also do not use my bow.  Don't know what your problem is, but I'm doing fine. /shrug</span> <div></div>

[Tazzrin]

So you're telling me that the vanish tactic has been fixed and is no longer useable in combat? OMG, this was like the only way we could even compete with other dps classes. This IS a slap in the face. Wow this is un-[Removed for Content]-believable. And I agree that for them to take away this ability before they actually fix our issues and concerns we have with our class is not justifiable and needs to be addressed directly. Please someone pull a few strings and get someone on the horn about this because this is BS.

[BaruMonk]

<span><blockquote><hr>BaruMonkey wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Harmonic wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>The unintented stealthing being fixed is going to finally ruin the Assassin class without a doubt.  The only way I ever have a chance to kill an even con or higher solo mob is with this unintented side effect.  Without this 'permanent' stealth, as an assassin you are never going to be getting off those special attacks, all of which require being in stealth.  When I was L20 it didn't matter, my straight melee damage + HOs was sufficient to rip through the low hp of those mobs.  L40 mobs are a whole different story.</p> <p>I consistently watch priest classes solo green^^ (and not the almost grey kind) and, here is the kicker, ***EVEN WITH THE STEALTH BUG I STILL CANNOT BEAT THE WEAKEST GREEN^^***</p>......<hr></blockquote> Just tossing in my 2 cents -- I can consistently solo kill blue mobs in Feerrott at 40, and whites also, though less consistently. I have many adept 1 skills, I use player-made poisons, I have adequate armor, a pair of nice dual weild weapons, and I DO NOT USE THE EXPLOIT, and I also do not use my bow.  Don't know what your problem is, but I'm doing fine. /shrug</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote> BTW, If you want to check out my stats and equipment, you can see them <a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=231708205" target=_blank>here</a>.</span><div></div>

[Kven]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazzrin wrote:<BR>So you're telling me that the vanish tactic has been fixed and is no longer useable in combat? OMG, this was like the only way we could even compete with other dps classes. This IS a slap in the face. Wow this is un-[Removed for Content]-believable. And I agree that for them to take away this ability before they actually fix our issues and concerns we have with our class is not justifiable and needs to be addressed directly. Please someone pull a few strings and get someone on the horn about this because this is BS. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're honestly going to tell me that you're upset because they fixed a long-known bug?  You've depended on this so-called-tactic for so long, ... listen to you.  Don't use bugs to your advantage then whine when they fix them.  Anyone who can honestly tell me that they think it was INTENDED in the first place has issues.</P> <P>Sorry to rant but come on now.  They didn't slap us in the face.</P> <P>They have yet to re-tune our DPS compared to fighters, so just cool your jets and let them work the problems out.</P>

[Tazzrin]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kvenau wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Tazzrin wrote:<BR>So you're telling me that the vanish tactic has been fixed and is no longer useable in combat? OMG, this was like the only way we could even compete with other dps classes. This IS a slap in the face. Wow this is un-[Removed for Content]-believable. And I agree that for them to take away this ability before they actually fix our issues and concerns we have with our class is not justifiable and needs to be addressed directly. Please someone pull a few strings and get someone on the horn about this because this is BS. <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>You're honestly going to tell me that you're upset because they fixed a long-known bug?  You've depended on this so-called-tactic for so long, ... listen to you.  Don't use bugs to your advantage then whine when they fix them.  Anyone who can honestly tell me that they think it was INTENDED in the first place has issues.</P> <P>Sorry to rant but come on now.  They didn't slap us in the face.</P> <P>They have yet to re-tune our DPS compared to fighters, so just cool your jets and let them work the problems out.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>You must have missed my point. For them to fix this problem before they fix the major issue that we insist that they fix was entirely overlooked. Much more astonishing is that I have yet to hear that it has even been addressed by the Devs. So you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be angry that they take out a bug that let us do more damage which in turn forces us to do even less damage.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Tazzrin on <span class=date_text>04-07-2005</span> <span class=time_text>11:10 AM</span>