Stealth attacks after cheap shot.

[Sarkoris]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Newbie Assassin in training (actually it's an alt for my broken Necromancer).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Even though it is not my main character doesn't mean I want to play the class badly and get full time Assassins a bad name. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is my question. My Assassin is Level 22. I often pull mobs with backshot and open shot as the mob closes, particularly if I am pulling a target out of a crowded hostile area (yes this is solo play). I will then bleed and ho the mob. Here comes my query. I use cheap shot with autoattack off then spin around mob and ambush it. I have seen players apparently go into stealth mode and use one of our higher damage attacks after cheap shot. Whenever I try it the mob has recovered and is no longer stunned hence spins to face me and I lose my flanking/rear attack opportunity.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What am I doing wrong? Do I need to be a higher level to stealth quicker? Am I using the wrong stealth technique (sneak) and if so which should I be using?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks in advance for any tips. As I said I don't play a class if I am playing it badly.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Sark on behalf of Slaene Level 22 Assassin.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Sarkoris on <SPAN class=date_text>03-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:18 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Sarkoris on <span class=date_text>03-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:19 PM</span>

[Putka]

Why do you use Sneak? Stalk is supposed to be the "combat stealth". It casts fast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Sarkoris]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Putka wrote:<BR>Why do you use Sneak? Stalk is supposed to be the "combat stealth". It casts fast <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is the sort of information I was after. I used Sneak because I didnt know any better. The description of Stalk is:</P> <P>This ability places you in stealth mode and lowers your threat level with the target.</P> <P>I never thought to use it as lowering my threat level with my target while soloing seemed redundant. What I didn't notice was the 1.0 second cast time compared to Sneaks 3.0. Thanks for the input. Keep it coming. Any other dark brotherhood tips I should know. While I am at it, what skills are worth looking forward to in my forseeable future,</P> <P>Sark.</P> <p>Message Edited by Sarkoris on <span class=date_text>03-29-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:20 PM</span>

[Miele]

<P>Hmmm, been a while, but I think Bleed is a dot together with pierce debuffing, no?</P> <P>Anyway, whenever you use a dot attack or poison procs the stun from Cheap Shot will be useless, as the first tick of dot damage wiill "wake" the mob.</P> <P>If you want to try keep in mind a couple things:</P> <P>- stalk casts fast</P> <P>- you need to flank the mob, not go behind it, so just strafe to a side while casting stalk and put a stealth attack in queue (shadowblade around that level I think)</P> <DIV>- do not dot the mob and make sure poison didn't proc yet</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>That's it.</DIV>

[Mordock of the Highwynd]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#cc3366>- you need to flank the mob, not go behind it, so just strafe to a side while casting stalk and put a stealth attack in queue (shadowblade around that level I think)</FONT></P> <P>My own little button manouver to flank the stunned mob is mashing the Right and Forward (AW) or Left and Forward (DW) simultaneously.   When I just strafe right or left, I don't end up in position to use the backstab.  Could be that I'm doing something wrong.  In any case, my diagonal/forward movement is easy for me to do.</P> <P>Julian Granger</P></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[CloakV]

Make 2 soloing macros from the socials menu. For going to stealth /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack /useability Stalk Use this macro and start moving round after CS lands for use with any of the stealthed attacks. For flank attacks /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack Great for pulling off shrouded strike in groups or soloing (just for the dammage in solo obviously) These will help loads. Now if you want to be Uber. Use your HO starter before you trigger either of these as the cheapshot progresses it. Some of the attacks will even finish the HO too. (not shrouded strike though) Uber part 2. Poison procs....as mentioned poison will break the stun! Heres what you do. Strat the HO. wait till you see the next posion proc and begin imediatly one of the macros. 6 seconds between poison procs so you can easily pull off a stealth attack if you time it. <div></div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

<span><blockquote><hr>CloakVai wrote:Make 2 soloing macros from the socials menu. For going to stealth /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack /useability Stalk Use this macro and start moving round after CS lands for use with any of the stealthed attacks. <div></div><hr></blockquote>The only stealth attack that requires you to be flanking the mob is shadowblade line.  Cut throat, poisoner's blade and assassin blade line attacks can all be done from the front. <span><blockquote><hr>CloakVai wrote: For flank attacks /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack Great for pulling off shrouded strike in groups or soloing (just for the dammage in solo obviously) <div></div><hr></blockquote>If you use cheap shot to land shrouded strike in groups, I think you may be missing something vital.</span> <span></span></span><div></div>

[CloakV]

<span><blockquote><hr>ZaranilShadowfiend wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>CloakVai wrote:Make 2 soloing macros from the socials menu. For going to stealth /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack /useability Stalk Use this macro and start moving round after CS lands for use with any of the stealthed attacks. <div></div><hr></blockquote>The only stealth attack that requires you to be flanking the mob is shadowblade line.  Cut throat, poisoner's blade and assassin blade line attacks can all be done from the front. <span><blockquote><hr>CloakVai wrote: For flank attacks /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack Great for pulling off shrouded strike in groups or soloing (just for the dammage in solo obviously) <div></div><hr></blockquote>If you use cheap shot to land shrouded strike in groups, I think you may be missing something vital.</span> <span></span></span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Aye my mistake, that would be my third macro. without cheapshot, which is shrouded strike followed by toggle auto attack. I really should re read my posts to check for obvious mistakes. fourtnatly theres people like you to point it out for me.</span><div></div>

[Trei]

Position requirements or not, one should always try to activate stealth attacks from the flank or back because... as idiotic as it may sound, a stunned target can still otherwise  <span>:smileysurprised:</span>  parry/riposte your attack. Infact it really feels like they have an even higher chance to when they are stunned <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div>

[CloakV]

<span><blockquote><hr>Trei49 wrote:Position requirements or not, one should always try to activate stealth attacks from the flank or back because... as idiotic as it may sound, a stunned target can still otherwise  <span>:smileysurprised:</span>  parry/riposte your attack. Infact it really feels like they have an even higher chance to when they are stunned <span>:smileytongue:</span> <div></div><hr></blockquote> You know i thought it was just me and my frenzied imagination that CA's like cut throat and poisoners balde etc didn't seem to land very often from the front. Hence why i always try and move round them reguardless of if it needs flank or rear. Glad its not just me. <span>:smileywink:</span> Thanks for validating my paranoia. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </span><div></div>

[Bobbubski]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Any other dark brotherhood tips I should know. While I am at it, what skills are worth looking forward to in my forseeable future,</P> <P>Sark.</P> <P>Message Edited by Sarkoris on <SPAN class=date_text>03-29-2005</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:20 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>in the immediate future, look for and upgrade Assassin's Mark.  This is a beautiful spell, especially while soloing.  first of all, anyone (in group situations) can trigger this effect to go off.  when it goes off (usually every other battle or so i find) it usually proc's in the 300's at your level, then will hit a few more times in the 200's..  a beautiful thing when soloing and groups like it too.  in groups, watch the agro effect tho.  if a priest or mage trigger it, the mob may jump them.</DIV>

[Sil]

Another tip at somewhat higher levels also involves timing your stealth maneuvers.  Abilities such as poisoner's blade / murdererous blade and assasins' blade have no position requirement, so you can easily get them off in solo combat. Just wait for the mob to hit you, pause a bit, trigger stalk/shadow, toggle attack, and queue your attack... as long as your skill goes off before they attack you again, you're golden.  It's just a matter of getting the timing down, and I find I can land the extra attack nearly every time without even stunning the monster. Also, be sure to use your debuff skills before using your bigger damage skills, you'd be surprised how much more damage you can get on average. <div></div>

[CloakV]

<span><blockquote><hr>Silur wrote:Another tip at somewhat higher levels also involves timing your stealth maneuvers.  Abilities such as poisoner's blade / murdererous blade and assasins' blade have no position requirement, so you can easily get them off in solo combat. Just wait for the mob to hit you, pause a bit, trigger stalk/shadow, toggle attack, and queue your attack... as long as your skill goes off before they attack you again, you're golden.  It's just a matter of getting the timing down, and I find I can land the extra attack nearly every time without even stunning the monster. Also, be sure to use your debuff skills before using your bigger damage skills, you'd be surprised how much more damage you can get on average. <div></div><hr></blockquote> Excellent tip, I feel a new macro coming on and some serious practice with that one. <span>:smileyhappy:</span></span><div></div>

[Demonskill]

hey Sarkoris, you the one in EQ1 TWC?

[Brianf]

<DIV>Definately have to program in a macro for that one...that's great info thanks <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[GE31]

<DIV>I don`t get this macro to work it says "Unknown command :`Toggle autoattack" what am i doing wrong? </DIV>

[Brianf]

<P>Tried this last night and it worked great...thanks for the tip.</P> <P>As a macro it is now just a matter of mashing the 9 key on my keyboard and i go stealth, toggle autoattack and poisoner blade the enemy.</P> <P> </P> <P>Goes great with my HO macro and my "all other attacks" macro</P>

[Demanufactur]

cool =) useful info btw, HO = ?????? <div></div>

[Eraxi]

<DIV>HO = heroic opportunity</DIV>

[MaNiaGG]

<i> /useability Cheap Shot /toggle autoattack /useability Stalk Why doesnt this work for me? Seems like the first thing shoud be an emote...or *$%#&! i am doing wrong? Thnx for help <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </i><div></div>

[IsmeldaLasomb]

Instead of /toggle autoattack i use /autoattack 0 (0 to stop or 1 to start in this way).

[Naughtesn]

/toggleautoattack - no spaces works for me

[Xrool]

No spaces works for me too. <div></div>

[Graton]

the attack that everyone seems to ignore after a stun is the back shot / cloaked barb line. i'd say these are the attacks i use post stun depending on what's up as i think dmg wise this would be how they rank: 1. assassin's blade / elaa's 2. shadowblade / ebon blade 3. back shot / cloaked barb (no stealth needed) 4. poisoner's / murderers 5. shrouded strike / exposed attack  (no stealth needed) <div></div>

[Kelst]

<P>Actually use :</P> <P>/useablity cheap shot</P> <P>/toggleautoattack (notice one word NOT 2)</P> <P>/useability Stalk(Shadow if your 28+)</P> <P> </P> <P>for groups use 3 macros for your attacks</P> <P>1.</P> <P>/useability Shrouded Strike</P> <P>/toggleautoattack</P> <P>/useability Poisoner's Blade</P> <P>2.</P> <P>/useability Stalk</P> <P>/toggleautoattack</P> <P>/useability Shadow Blade (Elaa's Pincer Blade for those that upgraded)</P> <P>3.</P> <P>/useability Stalk</P> <P>/toggleautoattack</P> <P>/useability Cut Throat</P> <P> </P> <P>Note** USE /toggleautoattack NOT /autoattack 1 & /autoattack 0.  The reason for this is you should be in attack already as a group and once you toggle it off and hit with your stealth attack your autoattack will but switch back on.  Trust me like this it is seemless.   2nd  Use STALK on your Cut Throat and Shadow Blade line and Shrouded Strike with Poisoners blade.  The reason in that both Shrouded Strike and Poisoners blade have a 10 second rescast(they work perfectly together) and Shdow Blade and Cut throat are both 60 seconds, with Stalk being 30 seconds, so use the first one, wait 30 seconds use second one, rinse and repeat.  For Assassin's Blade line I use Stalk then Assassin Blade because of the threat decrease before hitting 700+.</P> <P> </P> <P>And if all that does not work.  Just kick em in the [Removed for Content] and run like heck!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kelst]

<DIV>2nd Note.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ebon Blade is useless IMHO.  It is on the same timer as both Shadow Blade/Elaa's Pincer Blade and Shrouded Strike.   Hence upon using it you cannt use these 2 attacks for 30 seconds.  This is awful [Removed for Content] i know but dont bother using it.  You can do more dmg using shrouded stike and elaas/shadow blade then you can with ebon blade (the only reason i can see using it is for the mitigation decrease but we have other skills with unique timers for that., might be nice to use it once on a riad mob however)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Putka]

<P>:smileyindifferent:</P> <P>ebon blade is great. in case you havent noticed, its an upgrade to Shadow Blade. There's no way that SB deals more damage, unless its rank is vastly superior to your EB <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Kelst]

Na I was not saying that Shadow Blade did more damage then Ebon, however Shadow Blade + Shrouded Stike does much more damage the Ebon blade.   Ebon blade shares timer with both these other skills.  So you can use 2 skills, instead of 1.  I was clear about that.

[Putka]

trust me, Ebon Blade doesn't share reuse with Shrouded Strike (they're not the same CA line). Only with SB.

[Kelst]

Sorry, but you obviously need to log in and try it before posting dribble.  If you dont trust me, try it out.  They DO VERY MUCH share the same timer, unless something changed today in patch havent logged in since last night.

[Putka]

<P>Aaahhh yes, today's patch.. that must've been it.</P> <P>These 2 CAs havent been on same timers since beta and they still arent. Now please dont make me post yet another reply..</P>

[scivias]

<div></div><a target="_blank" href="../view_profile?user.id=4259"><span></span></a>Putka is right there<div></div>

[Trei]

["... <i>Sorry, but you obviously need to log in and try it before posting dribble.  If you dont trust me, try it out.  They DO VERY MUCH share the same timer, unless something changed today in patch havent logged in since last night</i>. ..."] Shrouded Strike and Ebon Blade has never been linked.  Ever. <div></div>

[IsmeldaLasomb]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kelstat wrote:<BR> <P>Note** USE /toggleautoattack NOT /autoattack 1 & /autoattack 0.  The reason for this is you should be in attack already as a group and once you toggle it off and hit with your stealth attack your autoattack will but switch back on.  Trust me like this it is seemless.   2nd  Use STALK on your Cut Throat and Shadow Blade line and Shrouded Strike with Poisoners blade.  The reason in that both Shrouded Strike and Poisoners blade have a 10 second rescast(they work perfectly together) and Shdow Blade and Cut throat are both 60 seconds, with Stalk being 30 seconds, so use the first one, wait 30 seconds use second one, rinse and repeat.  For Assassin's Blade line I use Stalk then Assassin Blade because of the threat decrease before hitting 700+.</P> <P> </P> <P>And if all that does not work.  Just kick em in the [Removed for Content] and run like heck!  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Well i do not aggree on that part. /toggleautoattack will set you in fight in you are not and set you off fight if you are. /autoattack 0 will set you off fight wether you are in or not. More reliable in my humble opinion. You use it when you need to stop attacking, after cheap chot, after shrouded strike line of skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personnaly in group, i use it to start a fight so i go in hide and use my bloodthirst attack. It is my first attack i am not attacking at start. So if is used /toggleautoattack it would ruins the purpose of my attack and make me auto attack the mob and exit hide mode.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now you have 2 options to set up up your macro. Each think the best one is the ons he uses but with my method you can do this :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/useability shrouded strike (or whatever in this line you use)</DIV> <DIV>/autoattack 0 (turn off autoattack)</DIV> <DIV>/useability Poisonner's Blase (or whatever skill you want to use in hide)</DIV> <DIV>/autoattack 1 (turn on autoattack)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What it does is clear, set you off attack even if you were not at start (which would not be it with toggle auto attack), use your attack in hide skill, place you in autoattack mode, if you ever failed to acheive to hide yourself (which can happens sometimes).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't see otherwise what proble you find with /autoattack 0 or 1.</DIV>

[Sil]

I don't get jiggy with the macros, I like fiddling around with all three hotbars, feels like playing Mortal Kombat : D <div></div>

[Putka]

me too.. you can't have a macro for every possible situation. Sometimes you need to make decisions in a split second <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> macros only work in an ideal enviroment, where nothing ever goes wrong <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[IsmeldaLasomb]

<div></div>I just use one macro for that : /useability Shrouded Strike /autoattack 0 As i cycle HO in between 2 shrouded strike (in group situation of course), it is the only attack i don't really need to see the  refresh. And i like to choose my hide attack  mannually <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was just explaining my choice. <div></div><p>Message Edited by IsmeldaLasombra on <span class=date_text>04-30-2005</span> <span class=time_text>06:53 AM</span>

[CheeperLeep]

<div>OK first thing i'll say is i'm a n00b so this is gonna sound stupid but here goes ...</div><div> </div><div>Whats the big deal with turning off auto attack????? When I CS I hear the bird, I move forward, I hit my rear positional re-stealth attack and then a high damage positional. As long as I queue up the moves so there is no delay with their execution they both go off every time. And as i'm running behind the target im smacking them and they still stay stunned for the positional attacks. I am only level 17, so take into considerations the different attacks i have available for my level.</div>

[ZaranilShadowfie]

<span><blockquote><hr>CheeperLeeper wrote:<div>OK first thing i'll say is i'm a n00b so this is gonna sound stupid but here goes ...</div><div> </div><div>Whats the big deal with turning off auto attack????? When I CS I hear the bird, I move forward, I hit my rear positional re-stealth attack and then a high damage positional. As long as I queue up the moves so there is no delay with their execution they both go off every time. And as i'm running behind the target im smacking them and they still stay stunned for the positional attacks. I am only level 17, so take into considerations the different attacks i have available for my level.</div><hr></blockquote>What your doing is correct.  If you cs a solo mob that is not ^ or greater, the cs will last the entire stun even if you hit it.  However, this wasn't always the case.  In the past if a mob took any damage it would break the cs and the mob would spin back around.  If you use cs on a stronger mob than a solo, the same thing will happen.</span><div></div>

[Chizreelo]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ZaranilShadowfiend wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>CheeperLeeper wrote:<div>OK first thing i'll say is i'm a n00b so this is gonna sound stupid but here goes ...</div><div> </div><div>Whats the big deal with turning off auto attack????? When I CS I hear the bird, I move forward, I hit my rear positional re-stealth attack and then a high damage positional. As long as I queue up the moves so there is no delay with their execution they both go off every time. And as i'm running behind the target im smacking them and they still stay stunned for the positional attacks. I am only level 17, so take into considerations the different attacks i have available for my level.</div><hr></blockquote>What your doing is correct.  If you cs a solo mob that is not ^ or greater, the cs will last the entire stun even if you hit it.  However, this wasn't always the case.  In the past if a mob took any damage it would break the cs and the mob would spin back around.  If you use cs on a stronger mob than a solo, the same thing will happen.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Also, there is a line of attacks that drop you automatically into stealth after the attack (don't know my CA's by name ... bad assassin, BAD!! <font color="#ffff00">/em slaps the back of his own hand</font>). Until recently autoattack stayed ON after you dropped into stealth and often interupted the stealth before you could hit the stealth-required CA. Now that line turns off autoattack for you so the old lines in the early macros are obsolete and can now, in fact, turn autoattack back on.