THE FOLLOWING IS BROKEN, Please fix it soon?

[Kirzen20]

<DIV>A new tibdit regarding the linking of skill reuse timers and AQ4 skills.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1 > Slip Away (APP4) - DOES NOT FUNCTION > It does everything else right, but it DOESN'T put you into stealth, its reuse timer just comes up without stealthing you, please fix this very shortly, its seriously screwing me up considering that with APP3, or ever APP1 I could use this valuable skill to its fullest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Note! Slip Away is also broken, there's a possible exploit with it when you're in combat, its -supposed- to be an our of combat stealth, but if used in combat it stealths you -until the end of combat-. You can keep autoattack on, and use all of your skills while stealthed... I'm sure I don't have to remind you that this means you can use all of your backstabs and stealth attacks one after another without restealthing as long as you don't get aggro)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2 > Dirty Tricks & Vex - LINKED > These abilities are linked, they shouldn't be, neither of them is a training ability, please fix.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3 > Assassin's Mark (APP4) > DOES NOT FUNCTION > It goes through the casting, but when the ability is about to complete, it simply states that there is no valid target for this ability, once again a huge [Removed for Content]-off considering that it appeared to be working fine at the APP3 level? (Did you guys 'not' bother testing all of the new APP4's or something?)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Note ! Assassin's Mark doesn't appear to do ANYTHING anyhow, its supposed to be an 'extreme' damage attack to the mob that's been marked. I would assume it was intended to be 'something' similar to the Brigand line of Ruse, but believe me when I say I -WOULD NOTICE- if a mob suddenly recieved about 2-350 additional damage (which appears to be what Ruse is currently doing... what's up guys?)</DIV>

[Sarevh]

assassins mark is supposed to create a mark on the enemies body, if you hit said body part you do extra damage. from what i hear attacks used to hit parts of the body but just all do the same damage in beta and that part was removed.and what do you mean by dirty tricks and vex being linked?

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>And what do you mean by dirty tricks and vex being linked? </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>When you use either Dirty Tricks or Vex, the timer for -both- goes off. (This means you can't use both of them, from what I understand, this isn't intentional, and is a bug left over from the whole mess regarding training abilities)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Assassins mark is supposed to create a mark on the enemies body, if you hit said body part you do extra damage. from what i hear attacks used to hit parts of the body but just all do the same damage in beta and that part was removed.</STRONG><BR></DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Then why doesn't it appear to be working? I cast it every combat and I have -YET- to see it -EVER- do anything, never procs, never appears to damage my opponent, doesn't appear to weaken him in any way.</DIV>

[Sharde]

<DIV>Dirty tricks and vex are linked, and are supposed to be, if you go onto fan sites and look at spell lists its pretty clearly stating that vex is the upgrade to dirty tricks</DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Dirty tricks and vex are linked, and are supposed to be, if you go onto fan sites and look at spell lists its pretty clearly stating that vex is the upgrade to dirty tricks.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~</STRONG>How about going to THIS board, and looking at Moorgard's post about the fact that the ONLY abilities intended to be linked are training abilities that you recieve at 10/20/30 etc. I could care less about what some idiot fan site has to say about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>EDIT > *is perhaps being a little mean, but people can at least learn to read the Dev's posts regarding the system*</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Kirzen2004 on <span class=date_text>01-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>08:14 AM</span>

[Buadyen]

You mean this thread: http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=news_announcements&message.id=89#M89 ?No where in it does he say that ONLY the Training abilities and the spells they "upgrade" are intended to be linked. All he says was that some spells/arts that were unlinked before the patch became linked as a side effect of the patch and that it would be fixed.Dirty Tricks and Vex were linked before the patch, and therefore they should be linked afterwards.

[Dormam]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>"</STRONG>How about going to THIS board, and looking at Moorgard's post about the fact that the ONLY abilities intended to be linked are training abilities that you recieve at 10/20/30 etc. I could care less about what some idiot fan site has to say about it."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You need to chill out.  Vex has always been an upgrade to dirty tricks.  Ability upgrades still are supposed to use the same timers as the skill they replace.</DIV></DIV>

[sag]

<DIV>vex is an upgrade to DT</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just like all the other upgrades we get (pierce - cut, impale - insidious, for instance), the timers are linked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just relax. everything will be alright.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>go read scout's sanctuary fan site. it's much more useful than anything you'll find here</DIV>

[Demon Wrai]

<DIV>"(Note! Slip Away is also broken, there's a possible exploit with it when you're in combat, its -supposed- to be an our of combat stealth, but if used in combat it stealths you -until the end of combat-. You can keep autoattack on, and use all of your skills while stealthed... I'm sure I don't have to remind you that this means you can use all of your backstabs and stealth attacks one after another without restealthing as long as you don't get aggro)"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This makes absolutely no sense considering that you can't do stealth arts while in Slip Away stealth.  And last I used it during combat it simply put the icon up and waited until combat was over before it put me into stealth.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Demon Wraith on <span class=date_text>01-10-2005</span> <span class=time_text>04:52 PM</span>

[khalysta]

<DIV>Dirty tricks and vex should be linked in my opinion.  They are meant to do the same thing and are very similar so technically if we could use both before then that was probably a bug anyways just like a non linked quick strike which is just a lower end version of pierce/cut seems to be a bug to me yet its unlinked.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Assassin's mark I've been saying since beta needs some way of letting you know it "works".  I've got the adept one and honestly never seen any high damage from it.  It says it gives you a chance to yet if its on combat arts seem the same as always and you never see any high damage melee strikes.  Plus it doesnt show up in the maintained window so its hard to justify it even sticks or works with no visual feedback at all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>just to add to this I think makeshift weapon needs a tweak to it.  The skill isnt bad but since its required to be used from the activate slots it would be nice if it summoned there and then we could use.  With it going into the bags and stuff always adding to inventory its more of a chore to cast, find and place it than its worth for the 85 damage.  If it went stright to the activate slot then there is always a spot for it.  If the activate slots are full then the backpack is acceptable.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And as always please allow poisons to be stackable <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Trei]

["...This makes absolutely no sense considering that you can't do stealth arts while in Slip Away stealth. And last I used it during combat it simply put the icon up and waited until combat was over before it put me into stealth...."]That's because you must have already upgraded it.I still have mine at app1 and bugrep'd it many times, but it still works like what the title threader said, even after the Big Patch.

[Kirzen20]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>vex is an upgrade to DT</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>just like all the other upgrades we get (pierce - cut, impale - insidious, for instance), the timers are linked.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV>~Then why for instance, are Quick Strike and Pierce not linked? Why aren't Static Pulse and Bludgeoning Earth (Summoner) spells linked? One is most assuredly the upgrade to the next</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They have to decide if they're linking all the 'upgrades' or not</DIV></DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>["...This makes absolutely no sense considering that you can't do stealth arts while in Slip Away stealth. And last I used it during combat it simply put the icon up and waited until combat was over before it put me into stealth...."]<BR><BR>That's because you must have already upgraded it.<BR>I still have mine at app1 and bugrep'd it many times, but it still works like what the title threader said, even after the Big Patch.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Quite possible, I haven't used my Slip Away since I upgraded it, because its completely busted. Partly makes me wish I hadn't though LOL, it'll probably take them six months to fix the bug... Not that I'd abuse that sort of thing... :smileywink:</DIV>

[Pheihong]

<DIV>Because quick strike is stalking and pierce is assassin.  most ppls doesn't seem to know the fact that once you become 20, your skill name changed and any skill below 20 and above 20 will share different timer/stacking abilities.. prob reason why my wife still use spirit of the badger at lvl 49.</DIV>

[Tolil]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Vex is an upgrade of dirty tricks in the same was Ebon blade upgrades shadow blade.  So it is correct that they are on the same timer.</P> <P>Slip away I upgraded a couple weeks ago, I do remember that I could start a stealth attack with the app1 version, but never encountered this "stealthed through the whole combat" thing that you mentioned.</P> <P>Assassins mark - I believe this gives you a chance to proc an extreem damage attack.  The skill itself does no damage, but leaves a "weak spot" on the enemy that you or anyone in your group can hit to cause extreem damage.  I've never seen this happen myself, but there is a debate about the term "extreem". ie how much more damage would a normal melee attack (not a skill) have to do to be classed as extreem? Maybe a 70 hit from a normal attack was the proc?<BR></P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[UpurBloodst]

<DIV>Actually, slip away doesn't have upgrades on the same timer.  At least not by 42.</DIV>

[Tolil]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> UpurBloodstab wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually, slip away doesn't have upgrades on the same timer.  At least not by 42.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> What I meant was, I upgraded it to adept 1 :smileyhappy:

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>I've never seen this happen myself, but there is a debate about the term "extreem". ie how much more damage would a normal melee attack (not a skill) have to do to be classed as extreem? Maybe a 70 hit from a normal attack was the proc?</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Well, Ruse  (Brigand ability) does over 500 damage at my level. -<STRONG>500</STRONG>- I've seen it go off for more than 600 sometimes. Its the same level as Mark, one would expect 'extreme' damage to be at least 3-400 (considering that my Shadow Blade is supposed to do 'high' damage, and goes off for about 250-300)</DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Because quick strike is stalking and pierce is assassin.  most ppls doesn't seem to know the fact that once you become 20, your skill name changed and any skill below 20 and above 20 will share different timer/stacking abilities.. prob reason why my wife still use spirit of the badger at lvl 49.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~</STRONG> *taps on your head* As I said, what about Static Pulse and Bludgeoning Earth</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Static Pulse - (Level 4, mage ability)</DIV> <DIV>Bludgeoning Earth - (Level 14? 16? Its a -summoner- ability)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The whole change of skill tree doesn't hold water, not one little bit of it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dirty Tricks (Level 8 - Scout Ability)</DIV> <DIV>Vex (Level 23 - Assassin Ability)</DIV></DIV>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kirzen2004 wrote:<BR> <DIV><STRONG>I've never seen this happen myself, but there is a debate about the term "extreem". ie how much more damage would a normal melee attack (not a skill) have to do to be classed as extreem? Maybe a 70 hit from a normal attack was the proc?</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Well, Ruse  (Brigand ability) does over 500 damage at my level. -<STRONG>500</STRONG>- I've seen it go off for more than 600 sometimes. Its the same level as Mark, one would expect 'extreme' damage to be at least 3-400 (considering that my Shadow Blade is supposed to do 'high' damage, and goes off for about 250-300)</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Just because a brigand gets ruse at 21 doesnt mean that our skill has to do the same damage.  Look at the rangers they get a skill at 21 that summons 10 arrows. The 21 skills appear to be sub-class defining skills and not necessarily similar across all classes.  The skill needs to tell you its working somehow and in general at that level extreme would be similar to ruse but at the same time if we could add in another 500 damage every 60 seconds we would be a tad bit overpowered.</DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Just because a brigand gets ruse at 21 doesnt mean that our skill has to do the same damage.  Look at the rangers they get a skill at 21 that summons 10 arrows. The 21 skills appear to be sub-class defining skills and not necessarily similar across all classes.  The skill needs to tell you its working somehow and in general at that level extreme would be similar to ruse but at the same time if we could add in another 500 damage every 60 seconds we would be a tad bit overpowered.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>I'm not suggesting either that we get something that powerful, or that they nerf poor brigands. I'm just saying that for an ability that does EXTREME damage to a mob, this ability should make a noticable difference (if it works, which it does -not- appear to be). If it 'is' working, they need to REALLY re-think their text on what this ability does, before any more poor souls waste a Jasper on it (me, I 'tend' to test an ability before I ever upgrade it, but there are a few like Shrouded Strike, which I simply chose to turn into ADD 3 because their descriptor was very impressive). Bottom line is that SOE should either explain what this ability does, fix it, or change the in game information about it.</DIV></DIV>

[Pheihong]

<DIV>Kirz, unless i am mistaken, your skill is still the same as you go from mage to summoner, it's when you're conjurer or necromancer that it changes.  so plz stop taping on my head before i tap your head with my heirophant crook.</DIV>

[spammy]

<DIV> <DIV>this just sounds like you are trying to find a reason why SOE is messing with us. we prove your statements wrong, then you move onto others, and even other classes... try and get your facts straight before posting a rant (argument thread)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>it doesnt seem like many are having your "real problems" like the stealth abilities, so have your tried a /petition?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>although, i have to agree with you on assassins mark. i have yet to see it in action.</DIV></DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV> <DIV><STRONG>Kirz, unless i am mistaken, your skill is still the same as you go from mage to summoner, it's when you're conjurer or necromancer that it changes.  so plz stop taping on my head before i tap your head with my heirophant crook.</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Irregardless of that, you're suggesting that when you change classes, you chance skill sets. And that the change in skill sets determines whether or not something stacks. Which is completely wrong, as I pointed out with Mage > Summoner > Conjourer</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mage > Evocations</DIV> <DIV>Summoner > Leggerdemain</DIV> <DIV>Conjourer > Conjourations</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If what you're saying is true, all of the directly related abilities (As I'd mentioned Static Pulse and Bludgeoning Earth, for instance) would be linked, and would have been linked from the start. Thus, is why I'm tapping you, trying to get you to do your research before you reply to me yet 'again' without finding out the facts.</DIV></DIV>

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>This just sounds like you are trying to find a reason why SOE is messing with us. we prove your statements wrong, then you move onto others, and even other classes... try and get your facts straight before posting a rant (argument thread)</STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>Then follow my train of logic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I suggest that Vex and Dirty tricks shouldn't be linked</DIV> <DIV>  1- Someone states they have been forever</DIV> <DIV>     2- I ask why the skills from the other classes that are the same, aren't linked</DIV> <DIV>        3- Someone states that its because they're the same 'skill' (Which, they most certainly arent)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You haven't 'proved' anything other that that Vex and Dirty tricks were linked from the start, and to that I postulate that they're either handing us the short end of the stick compared to other classes, or that the link between them was a bug in the first place.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Mack]

<DIV>Why the hell do you care about vex and dirty tricks being linked? Upgrades should be linked imo.</DIV> <DIV>If you got vex you wont be using dirty tricks anyway so no point in even arguing about it, grow up pls.</DIV>

[Trei]

Because it is one more coin we can flip hOps with.

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>Because it is one more coin we can flip hOps with. </STRONG></DIV> <DIV><STRONG></STRONG> </DIV> <DIV><STRONG>~ </STRONG>EXACTLY!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Edit : And Vex / Dirty Tricks are the BEST abilities to flip the HO's with, they're extremely fast casting.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kirzen2004 on <span class=date_text>01-14-2005</span> <span class=time_text>09:46 AM</span>

[Dacslogan]

I would like to see some feedback from soe on some of the broken skills like assassins mark tested myself several times and it doesnt seem to work. yes swipe dmg is your blade flurry for those that see the extra YOU swipe for xx dmg.

[spammy]

<DIV>after further inspection, i manage to see a slight increase in damage for my abilies with assassins mark.</DIV> <DIV>im not entireyl sure on this, but its the only thing i can see. </DIV>

[Trei]

If it really works but the difference is this small that we have to scrutinise this hard just to detect it...what's the point of it?

[Kirzen20]

<DIV><STRONG>If it really works but the difference is this small that we have to scrutinise this hard just to detect it...<BR>what's the point of it? </STRONG></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>~ Well, tonight I'll run some encounters with /log on and parse everything out, and we'll see (been lazy so far, haven't)</DIV>

[LadyDJTV]

<DIV>Got one thing to add, DT and Vex are both debuffs of the same class, both lower Defense (IIRC) and DT just contains a dmg component.  They're linked so you can't stack them.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OK, I have a question.  Someone earlier said that Ebon Blade is an upgrade to shadow blade.  Not agruing that it is but I was grouped w/ another assassin, he was 28 and I was 27.  We had a guy in our group running a parser and he could macro the stats into group chat.  The other assassin was using ebon blade and I shadow blade, both adept 1's and I consistently outdamaged him by at least 100 if not more on Highest Hit.  He remarked on it as well.  Any ideas as to what's up with this?  Is there some benefit of ebon blade I'm not seeing.  BTW, we compared weapons and he was better equipped dmg / dly than I was as well.  All the factors said he should have outdamaged me but he couldn't using ebon blade vs shadow blade.  His DPS was higher howerver.  Any ideas?  Anyone also notice this trend?</DIV>