Assassinate...

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>...is about as good as the assassinate that rogues got in eq1. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3600 second recharge (yes, 1 hour), and with app2 hits for a whopping 3,000 dmg---3,500dmg. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You are probably thinking, wow that is good, then you will think some more and realize it isn't nearly as good as our xxxxx blade powers.  Then you will group with a wizard, who at level 50, tosses out a 1000-1200 dmg ice comet every 18 seconds. Wizard's damage in less than 1 minute with ice comet will surpass our 1 hr ability~ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Yes, you heard me right....you do the math. In a perfect world that comes out to a 200,000 dmg per hour ability at level 50 versus 3,000. Add that up over the course of a play session...  For two "high damage" classes, that is a lot of disparity between our "end-of-the line" attacks. If we wanted to really make the difference sickening, just go and add master level to each of these two abilities.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Do I want ice comet nerfed? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But something useful in both group and raid situations would be nice. I really hope they change this to something more than a parlor trick to win ego points on eq2player rankings~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Demon Wrai]

<DIV>Do you have pictures of shadow illusion by the way?  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by Demon Wraith on <span class=date_text>12-15-2004</span> <span class=time_text>11:26 PM</span>

[Fee]

<DIV>Only 3,000 damage? That's pretty low for a one hour ability. For a ability with that long of a timer on it you would think it would do a lot more damage. At least double that damage.</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>Another thing.  Looked it up on ed2players and it shows your 3000+ hit on the magical damage list, not the melee damage list.  Strange.</DIV>

[Gonz]

<DIV>Sure one hour recast is a too long. But Assassin get three other single target attack from 47 to 49 with probably very good damage and normal recast. I'll show you another point of view. Suppose you have Assassinate down. You can still start the combat with two or three high damage attacks that will do far better damage than Ice Comet and even with a one minute recast or so on these spells, you will outdamage a Wizard easily. Now suppose you have your Assassinate up in a fight. You cast it early for three times the damage of Ice Comet then continue with the others spells and you will do 1.5x more damage than the Wizzy, probably more. So You can't just compare the two level 50 spells like you did but have to take into account what happens in a whole fight.</DIV> <DIV>Nevertheless it's true that one hour recast is too long and make the spell only usefull against boss or so. It should be 15 min recast or less.</DIV>

[Micbat]

D a m n your already 50? Power gamer jeez, game hasn't even been out a month yet has it? Anyway what that other poster said don't you have other assasin abilities that hit for 1000+ that are on a different timer. Wow after looking the previous two high damage skills we get are 35 Murderous Blade, and 38 Bloodthirster. Does seem like we should get some more high damage skills in the tier 5 line other than just Assassinate.I don't see any other abilities between 47-49, is there a new list out I don't know about?How much is your Murderous Blade, and Bloodthirster hitting for?<p>Message Edited by Micbator on <span class=date_text>12-16-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:32 PM</span>

[revk]

I bet wizards wish they could wear medium armor....and weren't wearing robes.Not too bad of a trade off imho

[Gonz]

<DIV>I think a bit about it and maybe the reason of a so long recast time is to be sure that the Assassin can use this ability only once in a fight, even a fight against very big raid mob group x4 that last several minutes.</DIV>

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>Wizards would never trade off the skills they had for medium armor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the grpx4 thing, at lvl 50 even groupx2 mobs have so many hps that 3k is a drop in the bucket. For assassinate to compete with something like ice comet, it would have to have its recharge lowered from 60 minutes to 1 minute. Even then it would *still* be less damage most of the time. I would gladly trade in medium armor for that much damage + mez, root, harvest, hp buffs, mana buffs, twitch, ranged root, and the list goes on and on.....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Wizards in eq2 are a utility class, they have tons of versatility, which is fine...I just dont feel like they should be outdamaging us like they do. </DIV> <DIV>I dont really see much point in assassins right now (comparatively speaking). </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>A master level ice comet vs master lvl assassinate would be approximately 400,000 dmg with ice comet compared to 4-5k for assassinate in the time cycle of assassinate (60 minutes). 1hr timer = worthless</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV>

[Fee]

<DIV>15 minutes would be better, even 20-30 minutes. One hour though is a very long time for the damage that it's doing compared to other abilities. Like someone else said, if my one minute attack and my 5 minute attack combined do the same amount of damage as assassinate, then what's the point of this one skill being on such a long timer? Sure it has a <EM>chance</EM> to one shot mobs when attacked, but only when they're really lower then your self.</DIV>

[Calixt]

<DIV>to look at this accurately you would need to parse it, and figure up how much damage you are actually doing over time compared to the wizard.  Do you have any parse logs we can drool over?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Are there restrictions on assassinate like there was in EQ1 (like only working on humanoids)?</DIV>

[Gonz]

<DIV>If you're really convinced that Assassins do so few damage, just play a Wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only case Wizard can outdamage you is against a large group of mobs where AE can make a difference. Just compare your dps in a fight against a single mob: the difference is obvious.</DIV> <DIV>I must add that Ice Comet is the best spell. It deals enormous amount of damage compared to the other DD Wizards have. Assassins have others very high damage attacks, not the Wizard.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also the mana cost of Ice Comet is really big and in a fight Wizard use their mana faster than anyone, even using harvest.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So please don't say Wizard are better dps than Assassins, it's not true.</DIV>

[Nagora]

<DIV>It seems like they either need to add another 0 onto the damage, or take a 0 off the recast time.  That sounds like a pretty disappointing skill to get as our "final" ability.  </DIV>

[Starchmonk]

I know this is completely off the topic of your post, but I would love to see a screen of the Shadow illusion too. =)A more serious question is... How do you see the assassin working in most cases? As in like normal encounters? You mentioned feeling kind of pointless. I'm just wondering how you feel about the class overall and how it fits in the group.

[Visr]

Quote :_________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ __________________________"A master level ice comet vs master lvl assassinate would be approximately 400,000 dmg with ice comet compared to 4-5k for assassinate in the time cycle of assassinate (60 minutes). 1hr timer = worthless"__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ _________________________As much as I love our class I think your comparison of the two skills/spells is unfair. You're chosing to compare a skill that has an hour refresh to a spell with an 18 second refresh then calculating a ratio of DP(H)? Typical class envy. What you also need to factor in is the other skills that can be used by an assassin in this time period of an hour...... It's a one sided argument, the way you presented the data is basically biased. I'm not arguing that maybe assassinate needs to be looked at, I'll take your word for it, but the way you presented your argument with DP(H) is quiet funny =).

[Micbat]

Well your analysis is great if you only attacking a mob once every hour. I know this is not your point, but your 400,000 compared to our 3-4k made me laugh, sorry <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>Reading comprehension 101.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When someone says a perfect world, you are assuming nonstop refresh of attack with infinite mana over a set period of time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There are too many intangibles to make these "what if" scenarios, so yes, it wouldnt be that much damage...it was more of a guesstimate. Casting time added to refresh will adjust this number, but until there is a good parser available nobody will know.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My post was meant as a preliminary comparison between the "end all be all" damage abilities of two high damage classes. Regardless </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Micbat]

I don't think you will find much of an argument from any assassin that say's the 1 hour recast time is way too long, but comparing one spell from two totally different classes negating any other utilities doesn't hold as a good argument. Again 1 hour recast is too long and I totally agree with ya on that. It's not that uber of a skill to warrent that long of a reuse timer. 3-5k of damage is c r a p for damage in the course of an hours fight, making this skill somewhat unattractive.can't help myself and feel free to spam me laterSince you don't have any trouble leveling to 50, role a wizard and let us know who out dps's.

[Gizza]

<DIV>Still waiting on that screenshot of the shadow thingy...</DIV>

[Jakr]

<DIV>i have a bad feeling shadow'd form was removed, but if not pls post a screenie :p</DIV>

[akumat]

1 hour cast time is pathetic, there is no doubt about that.Everyone wanting a pic... have you not seen the assassin mage pets?

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>Thats what I thought at first, that we would look like the assassin pets. I didnt bother taking a screenshot because there are just pulsing wisps of smoke that surround us, it's not very impressive. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I havent used it since the first time I tried it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[UpurBloodst]

<DIV>You guys are being a bit unrealistic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember:  At level 50, wizards will mostly likely JUST cast ice comet as their damage.  That's all they'll do.  It's how they'll do the most damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Why do you think that ONE of our abilities should be on par with the most damage a wizard is capable of doing?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Chain-casting ice comet is THE BEST thing a wizard can do.  However, we have many other damage-dealing abilities to fill in the gap.  Wizards don't.</DIV>

[akumat]

really? I was unaware that wizards didnt get any nukes until Ice Comet. That changes everything.

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>It doesnt have to be on par with ice comet, just good damage and not on an hour timer which is useless. That was the point of the thread, I guess some people didn't get that......... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ice comet was just an example of a lvl 50 high damage power that is actually defining for a wizard (a high damage class), and I would like to see something defining for us as well. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the wizards only casting ice comet comment.......no.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV>

[Mjk_cz]

<DIV>Uh, from description of assassinate, and deducting from name of it, i thought it will slay weaker opponents outright <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> so i thought i can instantly kill even and lesser monsters with it, surely only a chance<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> but as i see, i was mistaken<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> 3K damage for 1 hour reacharge is LOL<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV><A href="http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6987/eq20000091yv.jpg" target=_blank>http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6987/eq20000091yv.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 50 shadowed form (yea it sucks)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV>

[Fee]

<DIV>I don't know about you, but I think that shadow form looks pretty nice ^_^ I'm sure it would look better for you if you had your graphics set higher.</DIV>

[Demon Wrai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> WhispersEdge wrote:<BR> <DIV><A href="http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6987/eq20000091yv.jpg" target=_blank>http://img140.exs.cx/img140/6987/eq20000091yv.jpg</A></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lvl 50 shadowed form (yea it sucks)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>Looks fairly nice.  Thanks alot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My question.  What are you doing wearing that armor at level 50?</DIV><p>Message Edited by Demon Wraith on <span class=date_text>12-19-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:46 PM</span>

[Derg]

<DIV>If you guys think you got a bad lvl 50 special look at what swash get as their special</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody>LvL 50 </SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody>Inspired daring</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody>Swashbuckling</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=postbody></SPAN><SPAN class=postbody>Grants opportunity to attack every time an enemy damages you in within melee range.</SPAN></DIV> <P> </P> <P>How is that a rogue ability?</P> <P>I think you guys got a very nice ability not worth complaining about at all</P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Dergon on <span class=date_text>12-19-2004</span> <span class=time_text>12:48 PM</span>

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>meh i hate these forums~</DIV><p>Message Edited by WhispersEdge on <span class=date_text>12-19-2004</span> <span class=time_text>04:03 PM</span>

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>Yea, free attacks every time you take dmg in melee range is horrible.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the shadow form, what you cant see in the pic is that the smoky aura pulses quickly. If it didnt, I would like it, but it sort of gives you a headache after awhile~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for my armor, havent found anything to upgrade to Everliving Tunic or the mostly blackened iron from RE. Thank god for the lvl 43 loot drops on gobos eh? Thankfully our armorsmith is insane  and is leveling like a beast, so really good stuff shouldn't be too far off~ I need more master chest drops, like the one that dropped my poker =p</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Happy Holidays~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Visr]

<DIV>Quote :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Yea, free attacks every time you take dmg in melee range is horrible."</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hrmm why don't you actually think about that one with an open mind, if it were switched and we had that ability, I'de ask to have assassinate back.  I mean come on how many times does an Assassin or Rogue type class tank, much less get attacked?  I agree with the Rogue poster, that ability blows, you have my sympathy sir.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh Whisper thanks for the intellectual attack on either me or the poster after me with your "Reading Comprehension 101" a nice way to try to relay an opinion is to insult your audience.</DIV></DIV>

[Demon Wrai]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Visren wrote:<BR> <DIV>Quote :</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Yea, free attacks every time you take dmg in melee range is horrible."</DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hrmm why don't you actually think about that one with an open mind, if it were switched and we had that ability, I'de ask to have assassinate back.  I mean come on how many times does an Assassin or Rogue type class tank, much less get attacked?  I agree with the Rogue poster, that ability blows, you have my sympathy sir.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh Whisper thanks for the intellectual attack on either me or the poster after me with your "Reading Comprehension 101" a nice way to try to relay an opinion is to insult your audience.</DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>????</P> <P> </P> <P>He was agreeing.  You're looking for an arguement where there isn't one.<BR></P>

[WhispersEdge]

<DIV>It's not great, it's not terrible, but I do agree it's subpar for a level 50 ability (the rogue one you mentioned). I have thought about assassinate with an open mind, and comparing damage to reuse there isn't anything really appealing about it. When you get to lvl 50ish, you will see how little an extra 2k does, which is why I hope it is replaced with something more useful than for bragging rights on eq2players.com.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I said reading comprehension was because people were implying I was saying it should be some sort of damage race with ice comet, which was not the case. Ice comet is <EM>great for their class</EM>, I want something <EM>great for our class </EM>(relatively speaking mind you) but not a clone of ice comet (duh).  I merely pointed out the damage over time of both abilities to show the discrepancy of how useful they were to their respective classes. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When something is on an *hour-long* timer in this game, it makes you think about *why* it is on an hour time limit. Obviously the devs felt it was so powerful that they placed such a huge time restriction on it, and that is just not my experience in any way from actual play. Hell, another assassin in my guild (Altais, the guy who has the highest gamewide melee hit) with the 5 minute master ability hits close to as hard with that as assassinate does, and it isnt *game breaking* when he hits that hard. Even making assassinate master level isnt going to change its damage enough to ever come close to warranting that time restriction. Unless its dropped to like a 5-10 minute timer, it just isnt going to ever be something more than an "ooh and ahhh" ability for little kids who like big numbers. The actual dps of shadowblade (yes,the level 10 predator backstab) over an hour of time would put assassinate to shame, fyi~</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entreri--50 Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Ardent Legion--Mistmoore</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Staal]

<DIV>Reading this post is kinda a turn off hurrying up getting those skills, I was looking forward to Assassinate and Shadowform, was hoping it was around the same as in EQLive, also the shadowform I thought was more like the shadow pets some mobs got, ah well hopefully they will change it to something better...</DIV>