shadow blade dmg

[Sapie]

<DIV>is shadow blade dmg based off your weapons dmg ... your exp lvl or both??</DIV>

[Elv]

<DIV>Your Lv , weapon, and skill with that given weapon type.</DIV>

[khalysta]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Elvar wrote:<BR> <DIV>Your Lv , weapon, and skill with that given weapon type.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <P>and strength to a small degree.  </P> <P>Also a note about weapons that its not the overall damage on the weapon that counts.  In other words the 1 handed 50+ long delay one handed weapons won't out damage the fast 1.2 sec low delay 20 damage dual wielded weapons.  I'm not sure if its the sum of the overall weapons or based on the tier + overall quality of the weapon at this point but I would tend to guess the later.</P>

[Dormam]

<DIV>I think the things that affect damage the most are as follows:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1.  Combat Arts.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2.  Skill level of the Combat Art you just used.  Adept 1 over Apprentice 1 for example...major difference in damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3.  Your character level.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>4.  Weapon DPS.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>5.  Character stats (AGI primarily, then STR).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Notes:  On weapon DPS it just amazes me that faster but lower damaging weapons still get the big hits in.  No idea how this works, but my steel rapiers (1.2 speed) still hit really hard even when compared to slower but more damaging weapons (which usually have a lower DPS).  Also, as my self-buffed AGI is about 105-110 at level 26 and my STR is in the low 30s I can only assume that AGI and not STR has more to do with damage for our class since its our prime stat.  Precision over brute force I guess.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Comments?</DIV>

[Sapie]

<DIV><STRONG>i have adept 1 SB.. didnt understand how a 3-12 dmg can hit for same as a 1hand 8-24dmg. doesnt make sence to me</DIV></STRONG>

[Elv]

<DIV>STR plays a role in Dmg also ... here are my unbuffed stats at Lv26</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Health 1,135 <BR>Power 819 <BR>Attack 442 <BR>Defense 1,111 <BR>    <BR>Strength 68 <BR>Agility 87 <BR>Stamina 41 <BR>Intelligence 34 <BR>Wisdom 35 <BR></DIV> <DIV>This is before I self buff my AGI. I noticed more so while raising my STR that my hits on Avg. would be higher. More so then when I cranked up my AGI. That  more so seems to help the rate that I land a hit more so then the amount of dmg inflicted.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Kilrt]

<DIV>Ild have to say having 80+ Str really does make a difference in regards to more dmg on the big strikes.</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV> <DIV>"STR plays a role in Dmg also ... here are my unbuffed stats at Lv26</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Health 1,135 <BR>Power 819 <BR>Attack 442 <BR>Defense 1,111 <BR>    <BR>Strength 68 <BR>Agility 87 <BR>Stamina 41 <BR>Intelligence 34 <BR>Wisdom 35 <BR></DIV> <DIV>This is before I self buff my AGI. I noticed more so while raising my STR that my hits on Avg. would be higher. More so then when I cranked up my AGI. That  more so seems to help the rate that I land a hit more so then the amount of dmg inflicted."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As I have said before, my str is half yours and I hit just as hard if not harder than the races with higher str.  No idea why tho and it is quite possible that there is some type of str/agi ration thing going on to affect it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Elv]

<DIV>Depends what weapons your using .. I for one use a Steel Rapier for my primary weapon...Its not a hard hitter but quick.  Max base dmg on it for my Lv is only 20. Even tho its base dmg isnt that high Ive managed to hit for 808 with it. I noticed that your high recored hit is 70dmg less then me. That could account for the additional Str I have. I dont see you using a weapon with LESS base dmg then me since the steel rapier pretty much is on the bottom of the barrel for its Dmg per hit number. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could easily see my 808 go to 900 - 1000dmg if I replaced it will a Spear that has a base dmg of 30+ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless... saying STR plays not role in DMG if [Removed for Content]. Group with a Shm and let them throw a STR multiplier on you. Youll notice your dmg increase. If you have to DL a dmg parser... then just see for yourself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sapie]

<DIV>so basicly</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1. STR</DIV> <DIV>2. Your LvL</DIV> <DIV>3. Weapon dmg / dps</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>Elvar wrote "Depends what weapons your using .. I for one use a Steel Rapier for my primary weapon...Its not a hard hitter but quick.  Max base dmg on it for my Lv is only 20. Even tho its base dmg isnt that high Ive managed to hit for 808 with it. I noticed that your high recored hit is 70dmg less then me. That could account for the additional Str I have. I dont see you using a weapon with LESS base dmg then me since the steel rapier pretty much is on the bottom of the barrel for its Dmg per hit number. <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I could easily see my 808 go to 900 - 1000dmg if I replaced it will a Spear that has a base dmg of 30+ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Regardless... saying STR plays not role in DMG if [Removed for Content]. Group with a Shm and let them throw a STR multiplier on you. Youll notice your dmg increase. If you have to DL a dmg parser... then just see for yourself."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, based on your premise that higher str does determine the bigger hits I did a survey of the top 100 melee hits in the entire game.  I found out that it is dominated by high AGILITY races as opposed to high STRENGTH races.  Here are the numbers:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Half Elf:  7</DIV> <DIV>Ratonga: 6</DIV> <DIV>Dark Elf: 3</DIV> <DIV>Kerran: 3</DIV> <DIV>Barb: 2</DIV> <DIV>Human: 2</DIV> <DIV>Wood Elf: 1</DIV> <DIV>Gnome: 1</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There it is.  The larger races are not represented very much at all in the large melee hits.  At the levels most of these folks were the barbarians had roughly DOUBLE the str of most of the AGI races.  Also note that there is not a single ogre or troll in the top 25.  One would think with their very high strength they would hit for a ton of damage and yet not a single one in the top 25.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I humbly submit that AGI is more of a factor than STR is for our damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV></DIV>

[Elv]

<DIV>"<DIV>Ok, based on your premise that higher str does determine the bigger hits I did a survey of the top 100 melee hits in the entire game. I found out that it is dominated by high AGILITY races as opposed to high STRENGTH races. Here are the numbers: "</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>High Agility races ...?? That holds nothing. A Barbarian can have 100+ agi with items you cant just look at the race and make that call cause they start with high agi. Also, your going to see a majority of people picking a half elf or a race with stats adapted for that class rather then a Troll or Barb. That that also disproves that theory. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I doubt that the dev's intended str to not influence dmg per hit. It would not make sense. A creature with 100 str should, would, has always.. hit harder then one with 10 str. The last everquest held true to this and similar games. </DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Im going to look into this further just cause its now a fun debate' I get out of work soon. Look for an update then...</DIV></DIV><p>Message Edited by Elvar on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>01:33 PM</span>

[TinckTrink]

<DIV>I've tried to figure this out but my highest hit was using an Assassin's Quickblade of Silence for 658 at level 25.  I've hit for 550+ solo and completely unbuffed and have hit for 190's with uber STR/AGI buffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm now 28, and have +25 AGI, + 20 skill, +20 STR, much higher base damage steel stilletto and steel leafblade and have only broke 600 2 or 3 times since.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, there is absolutely no difference between a very fast stilleto and a fairly slow leafblade in special attacks like Ebon or Assassin's Blade.  Special attacks may be entirely based on skill.  However, it is very easy to see that regular melee attacks are affected by different weapons.  With the stilletto my normal melee hit is high teens, whereas with the leafblade they are all over 20.  I of course swing less often with the slower leafblade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>My only guess so far is that AGI affects our MAX limit and STR affects our MIN limit on our potential damage per hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh, the last thing is your target's AC.  This is absolutely HUGE when you consider your damage.  Skellies usually have a higher AC.  If you want a super high hit for the eq2players website, go to EW and hit those ratonga casters needed for AQ3.  They have almost no AC.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV> <DIV>"High Agility races ...?? That holds nothing. A Barbarian can have 100+ agi with items you cant just look at the race and make that call cause they start with high agi. Also, your going to see a majority of people picking a half elf or a race with stats adapted for that class rather then a Troll or Barb. That that also disproves that theory."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What you say doesnt disprove my theory.  Get some facts, like I did and show me.  Is your explanation for more high AGI races in the top 25 is that they equip more str items to get their big hits?   As I was calling up the profiles on these characters I was glancing at their stats as well and thats not the case.   Your theory is that str makes a big difference....if it did like you say, wouldnt we see more strong races doing the huge damage?  Less talk and more evidence please. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, when you say "stats adapted to that race" what do you mean exactly?  Do you mean that low str races will seek out str items and high str races will seek out dex items?  At this stage in the game we all have access to equivalent equipment.  Everyone has access to the same quests and the really rare drop items have not made any impact yet that I can see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"I doubt that the dev's intended str to not influence dmg per hit. It would not make sense. A creature with 100 str should, would, has always.. hit harder then one with 10 str. The last everquest held true to this and similar games. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This isnt your dad's everquest.  The concept is not that assassins do more damage because they are stronger, but because of their high AGI they hit precise points of attack on their target creating catastrophic damage.  You can stick a dagger in a guys fanny all night, but put a dagger into his left eye and you might get his attention.  Plus this game follows the premise of any race, any class.  I would expect stats to have the very least impact on anything in this game.</DIV></DIV></DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>"My only guess so far is that AGI affects our MAX limit and STR affects our MIN limit on our potential damage per hit."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Nice theory and it very well could be, but who knows?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"Oh, the last thing is your target's AC.  This is absolutely HUGE when you consider your damage.  Skellies usually have a higher AC.  If you want a super high hit for the eq2players website, go to EW and hit those ratonga casters needed for AQ3.  They have almost no AC."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This I certainly agree with.  If you can get your priest class folks to stop healing long enough to debuff your target you will see much larger hits.  I also think that certain mobs are more resistant to certain types of damage.  I also do better vs skellies using slashing weapons as opposed to pierce weapons.  That why I carry a back up whip so I can keep my slash skill up.</DIV></DIV>

[Graton]

<DIV>actually he did disprove what you said because as he points out the statistics you show only prove that high agility races dominate the max hits if the number of assassins in each of those race groups is roughly equal. fact is, as the poster explained, they aren't.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>break it down to really simple terms if there were only 20 assassins and 15 of them were either ratonga or half elf, they would dominate the top 10, because they would be assured of having half the after swinging a dagger once. now if you multiply that by 100000 then even with the same ratio of ratonga to ogre you could get valid statistics but there just aren't enough high lvl assassins of all the races in eq2 yet for your analysis to hold any water.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>do a /who all ratonga assassin then do a /who all ogre assassin. you will see that the numbers aren't even close. no statistical comparison of max hits can be done unless you have either an equal number of the different races or huge total numbers which make up for even large discrepancies. eq2 just isn't old enough for us to know yet.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>redo your study based on the strength or agility of all the max hitters and then maybe you have something.</DIV>

[Lou]

<DIV>Bottom line is this. (which holds true now even as it did/does in EQ1)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Str determines MAX DMG per hit</DIV> <DIV>AGI determines your ability to avoid Melee hits AND how likely you are to parry, and land % of your blows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If A=B then the following would be true about C</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If character has HIGH starting STR (ogre) he will hit harder for MAX DMG more often etc.</DIV> <DIV>If character has HIGH starting AGI  (ratonga/elf/HE) he will hit MORE often but for less DMG.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, with those in mind, a character with HIGH starting AGI versus a character with HIGH starting STR will out DPS in the length of a fight because he is hitting more often.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As there is a HUGE difference in AGI between classes like a troll or ogre versus a finese type race, the finese races have a huge advantage. STR has ALWAYS been easier to raise via gear than AGI.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So a finese race (ratonga/elf/HE) makes more sense for an assasin type class. The races with higher starting STR will find themselves lacking severly in the higher lvls when stats actaully begin to play a major role in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short Elvar your right, the other guy is wrong.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Loupe on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>02:36 PM</span>

[Lou]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dormammu wrote:<BR> <DIV> <DIV>"High Agility races ...?? That holds nothing. A Barbarian can have 100+ agi with items you cant just look at the race and make that call cause they start with high agi. Also, your going to see a majority of people picking a half elf or a race with stats adapted for that class rather then a Troll or Barb. That that also disproves that theory."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>What you say doesnt disprove my theory.  Get some facts, like I did and show me.  Is your explanation for more high AGI races in the top 25 is that they equip more str items to get their big hits?   As I was calling up the profiles on these characters I was glancing at their stats as well and thats not the case.   Your theory is that str makes a big difference....if it did like you say, wouldnt we see more strong races doing the huge damage?  Less talk and more evidence please. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, when you say "stats adapted to that race" what do you mean exactly?  Do you mean that low str races will seek out str items and high str races will seek out dex items?  At this stage in the game we all have access to equivalent equipment.  Everyone has access to the same quests and the really rare drop items have not made any impact yet that I can see.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"I doubt that the dev's intended str to not influence dmg per hit. It would not make sense. A creature with 100 str should, would, has always.. hit harder then one with 10 str. The last everquest held true to this and similar games. "</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This isnt your dad's everquest.  The concept is not that assassins do more damage because they are stronger, but because of their high AGI they hit precise points of attack on their target creating catastrophic damage.  You can stick a dagger in a guys fanny all night, but put a dagger into his left eye and you might get his attention.  Plus this game follows the premise of any race, any class.  I would expect stats to have the very least impact on anything in this game.</DIV></DIV></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR> <DIV>This is all coming from a Ratonga?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Dude....your not very bright.</DIV>

[Elv]

""This isnt your dad's everquest ""Well this above statement proves everything ... I now realize that Im dealing with a child. More fun facts for you to cry about: There are class's that can buff others class's while grouped . For instance .. with a Shamman in my grp my Str is always around 120. Which may account for the higher Dmg that I put out.***The stats that are on the player profiles are *Unbuffed. Incase you didnt realize. They all sync over time or on server reboot.I like how you fall back on these numbers you * say * you polled and went through. I call you on this bluff. Today they now require you to pay for advanced features and at the time of your post I also went to verfiy your count and most if not ALL profiles were blank. Thats right, not over yet. I give you numbers....... REAL FACTS .. Freak : Unrest Strength 87Agility 85Stamina 58Intelligence 36Wisdom 42Rizky : ToxulliaStrength 79Agility 106Stamina 49Intelligence 68Wisdom 40Asura : SteamfontStrength 82Agility 83Stamina 84Intelligence 77Wisdom 57Tiny : GukStrength 69Agility 116Stamina 61Intelligence 58Wisdom 58Vivamort : CrushboneStrength 74Agility 98Stamina 50Intelligence 43Wisdom 51Rain : befallenStrength 78Agility 134Stamina 67Intelligence 47Wisdom 66Aure : ButcherblockStrength 79Agility 81Stamina 53Intelligence 47Wisdom 58I can keep going but its all the same. They all have twice the amount of Str as you. They all hit for over 1k dmg. Moral of this post? Dont reply to a topic cause you may *think you know what your talking about.. and Finally, while typing and pretending to know what your saying. Dont make up the numbers and figures and then question somebody to disprove you./PWNED<p>Message Edited by Elvar on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:34 PM</span>

[Elv]

... * crickets * ...<p>Message Edited by Elvar on <span class=date_text>12-09-2004</span> <span class=time_text>03:17 PM</span>

[Lou]

<DIV>Yep...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd say that deserves a....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000 size=7>PWNED</FONT></DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV> <DIV>"So a finese race (ratonga/elf/HE) makes more sense for an assasin type class. The races with higher starting STR will find themselves lacking severly in the higher lvls when stats actaully begin to play a major role in EQ2.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>In short Elvar your right, the other guy is wrong."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now wait a minute.  I am the one saying high AGI races make better assassins arent I?  /boggle...</DIV></DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>"Well this above statement proves everything ... I now realize that Im dealing with a child"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Elvar, no need to insult me.  This game is vastly different than EQLive and the devs and gone to great lengths to state that.  We can discuss this and leave the playground insults unsaid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, 5 out of the 6 you mentioned had a greater AGI than str.  They are also how many levels above me?  Several over 10 levels.  Could it possibly be that their LEVEL is what is getting them those big hits as opposed to any stat?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have written all over these boards that your stats, whether AGI or STR are the very last thing that determines anything on how hard an assassin hits.  The base arguement between you and I is whether AGI or STR is more important to an assassin where big hits are concerned.  All you have proven is that assassins of about 35th to 40th level and most of which have higher AGI than STR can hit for over 1000.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 26 I hit routinely in the 700s with my best shot being 753 recently.  Thats in the top 30 from the server I am from.  Pretty sure I will be able to top 1k by the time I am 35th level at the rate I am going.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway......</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"/PWNED"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and you called me a child?  Heh, thats funny.</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>How about this.  You play on the same server as me Elvar.  Your toon has a str in the high 60s or at least your profile says you do.  Your level 27.  Your max hit is 808 on the server coming in 17th place in the top 100.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am level 26.  My str is barely 40.  My max hit is currently 753 on the server and I am in 23rd place on the server.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Not much of a difference in my opinion.  And I am willing to bet I pass the 800 damage mark at level 27 just as you have.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Has your higher str made much of a difference?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Personally, if given a choice between str items and agi items I will take the agi item every time.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Oh and by the way.  Silly elvar took a high agi race as well....silly elf.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe you should reroll and get that troll assassin you think roxxors?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/pwnd?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Heh</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>... * crickets * ...</DIV>

[Sem]

<DIV>From experience the things that affect our maximum damage from a special attack such as Assassin's Blade are in the following order:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1) Player Level</DIV> <DIV>2) Skill Level</DIV> <DIV>3) Mob AC (Including damage vuln type)</DIV> <DIV>4) Buffs/Debuffs that effect Mob AC</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For standard melee swing damage it appears to be strength based (my average damage on a successful hit raises with more str, even with agi over 220 the damage increase is marginal if any on a successful hit but with str around 120 my damage per hit is much much more noticably higher)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want the highest single melee hit you can get then find a mob with very low AC (the Ratonga casters in ED are perfect for this as already mentioned) make sure you debuff them with everything  you have (Vex, Insidious Cut, Ebon Blade) then pull an Assassin's Blade and you will hit very hard. Do this a few times and you will see some very big hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you want to raise your DPS from non-style based attacks then raise your strength do not raise it and neglect agility though, both have their role but neither can be ignored.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Semetta Bloodbath</DIV> <DIV>33 Dark Elf Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Crushbone</DIV>

[Lou]

<DIV>I never said AGI determines your MAX DMG.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you bothered to read my reply, you would have seen that I CLEARLY stated that STR determines MAX DMG.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I will make an example for you, cause your obviously alittle slooooooow.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toon1    </DIV> <DIV>AGI 200</DIV> <DIV>STR 100</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toon2</DIV> <DIV>AGI 100</DIV> <DIV>STR 200</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toon1 will avoid incoming melee DMG MUCH better than Toon2. </DIV> <DIV>Toon2 will have higher MAX DMG skill strikes. (I.e Shadowblade will hit for higher)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Toon1 will over the length of a fight out dmg a pure STR based race.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's just like EQ1. Rogues backstab relied purely on his STR. However, his AGI determined how often he proc'ed and how often he successfully hit.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now, considering you do about 100x more regular attacks in a fight than you do a shadowblade, it makes more sense to have a higher AGI.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So what are you talking about? Elvar has a high starting AGI because he picked a HE. Just like you. You both picked the best races for the class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So let me say this sssssllllllooooooowwwwwwllllllyyyyy for you.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>AGI HAS NO DETERMINING FACTOR IN HOW HARD YOU HIT. STR is the only factor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So your arguement is either:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>a) wrong</DIV> <DIV>or</DIV> <DIV>b) misunderstood</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also, in regards to your post about you being lvl27 and hitting for 800 with shadowblade. Your right. You will hit for about that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here is the difference, if you look at Elvar's profile you'll see he's using a Steel Rapier in his primary.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>He's hitting 808 with a Steel Rapier. That's pretty impressive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If he put a 30 dmg spear in his hand, there is little doubt that he'd crack 1k. Problem is, your gonna crack 800 with that same spear. NOT 1k.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As your lvls go up, you will realize the vast difference if you continue to ONLY raise your AGI.</DIV> <DIV>Assasins are not supposed to get hit, so the only thing AGI is good for is how often you'll "proc" (poison etc) and how often you'll land. And because you guys already have such a HUGE advantage in the AGI department over something like an Ogre, you can afford to raise up STR if you want to get higher "skill" strikes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Though, personally I'd like to see an Assasin with crazy AGI, because STR is easily buffed my shammies etc.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The ultimate Assasin will have HIGH STR and HIGH AGI. So he hit very fast ( for high DPS ) and also dish out bone breaking "skill" moves that do great deals of DMG.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm posting this because I played a high lvl rogue in EQLive. STR and AGI were maxed. Everything else didn't matter.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These are basic rules for any roleplaying game. AGI and STR have always dictated the same roles.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Loupe on <span class=date_text>12-10-2004</span> <span class=time_text>05:54 AM</span>

[Dormam]

<DIV>"Here is the difference, if you look at Elvar's profile you'll see he's using a Steel Rapier in his primary"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Actually I use the exact same weapon so there is no difference there.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"It's just like EQ1"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not completely convinced its exactly just like EQ 1.  If anything, they have toned down how much stats effect stuff like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <DIV>"AGI HAS NO DETERMINING FACTOR IN HOW HARD YOU HIT. STR is the only factor."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This is the only difference in our opinion.  I am just not completely sold on this one yet.  It may effect your average swing, but like the guy a couple posts up, I am not so sure it effects combat arts maximum hits.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"If he put a 30 dmg spear in his hand, there is little doubt that he'd crack 1k. Problem is, your gonna crack 800 with that same spear. NOT 1k."</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Several people on this board, to include me have experimented with the slower but higher damaging weps.  The overall consensus was that a slower weapon didnt increase your overall damage potential with a move like Assassins Blade.  It did increase your average hit, but I for one couldnt seem to get it to hit any harder for a big hit than the low delay weps I use.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>"Though, personally I'd like to see an Assasin with crazy AGI, because STR is easily buffed my shammies etc"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thats what I am going for.  I pick up every AGI item I can find.  My basic point is still that even though I have mostly ignored strength, I still hit just as hard on the big hits as people with double my strength that are equal to my level.  No fair comparing me to folks 10 levels above me either.  Pretty sure I will be breaking the 1k mark once I get to 35th level myself.</DIV></DIV>

[Sem]

<DIV>Indeed if you use a slower weapon with a higher damage ratio your styles will not hit harder. Strength is actually less easily buffed than agility. I often have over 220 agility in groups but rarely over 140 strength. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I too went mad for agility items at the start, now I am dropping 1 or 2 points of agility to gain an extra couple of points of strength because with strength I notice a difference, that is not to say that I am going either way, just that i want alot more of a balance between the two.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Semetta Bloodbath</DIV> <DIV>33 Dark Elf Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Crushbone</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV>Actually I just reviewed the top 10 world wide and check the race, agi and str and level of those in the top 10.  Here is what I found.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Altais        AGI 120    STR 72     Level 44 Ratonga</DIV> <DIV>Rain         AGI 133    STR 78     Level 45 HE</DIV> <DIV>Vhaye       AGI 90       STR 74    Level 36 HE</DIV> <DIV>Freak       AGI 85       STR 87    Level 33 Barb</DIV> <DIV>Gothic      AGI 91      STR 88     Level 39 Kerran</DIV> <DIV>Akuma     AGI 118    STR 77     Level 35 HE</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The others were grayed out so I counldnt see their stats.  Ok, this is a very small and its inconlusive.  They all have about the same str and the level range going from 33-45.  The difference in levels seems to indicate that level affecting this sort of thing seems to pan out in the mid 30s OR it could mean the guys in the mid 30s were just buffed beyond their wildest dreams.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe the devs werent lying and that stats dont really mean anything in this game.</DIV>

[Sem]

<DIV>Actually it makes a huge difference what mobs you fight too. If you grind out on mobs that don't have low AC you arent going to find many big hits coming your way.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I would leave the Agi and Str stats from eq2players alone if i were you, they don't mean anything without alot of other variable details available in parrallel.</DIV> <DIV><BR>Semetta Bloodbath</DIV> <DIV>33 Dark Elf Assassin</DIV> <DIV>Crushbone</DIV>

[Elv]

<DIV>Whos to say that we not being gimped down by a dmg cap atm. Where at a higher Lv, it will be lifted and well notice stats playing more of a role.. ?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>*shrug* just a thought</DIV>

[Dormam]

<DIV> <DIV>"Whos to say that we not being gimped down by a dmg cap atm. Where at a higher Lv, it will be lifted and well notice stats playing more of a role.. ?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Entirely possible.  In EQLive didnt the damage cap exist only until 20th level tho?  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the stats from the EQ2Players page, yeah, its pure crap to try and ascertain anything from them.  At that level equipment and buffs/debuffs play a much larger role in whats happening.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Main thing I got from scanning the data was that the #1 guy now is using a Serrated Bone Dirk.  Wonder how he got that?</DIV></DIV>