Can you fix Makeshift Arrow and Rip for GU#32 too ?

[EQ2Magroo]

First off, thanks devs for addressing our concerns about arrow supply. From what you've posted so far, it looks like our arrow supply issues will generally be over after GU#32. As a side issue, I might not be completely happy with our DPS, but I can see that this fix wasn't designed to address that issue.<span> :smileywink:</span>However, there are a couple of things missing from the fix that will still cause pain to a lot of rangers when it comes to supplying their arrow needs.1. Makeshift Arrows is no upgraded often enoughOur method of obtaining free arrows if via Makeshift Arrows spell line, which is given at level 20 (OK) but is only upgraded every 14 levels (not OK !). This means that a tier 4 Ranger will have to use tier 3 ammo from levels 30-33. Now if the whole point of Makeshift Arrows if to give us free ammo which is appropriate for our tier then surely it should be upgraded every 10 levels ? If you think tier 4 have it bad though, wait until you get to T6. Because the previous upgrade was at 48, the next one is at 62. This means you have a whole tier of Rangers from level 50-61 that are having to use T5 ammo. No wonder our DPS suffers so much over those levels.Now I can see there is some concern over what happens if you switch to every 10 levels, because this means as well as the new spell at 50, we'd be getting one at 70 too. The level 50 spell is easy, just give the appropriate level. The level 70 is trickier though because you'll potentially have a bunch of T8 bow-summoned Rangers complaining about nerfing the usefulness of their bow (not that it would, but they won't see that)If Makeshift Arrows isn't upgraded every 10 levels then high end players (62+) will still be OK, but those Rangers coming up through the ranks (i.e. the ones with the least money) will still be faced with arrow consumption issues.2. Rip spell arrows not usefulAs with Makeshift Arrows, this spell gets an upgrade every 14 levels. This makes it useless as a gathering method for T7 players as it just rips T6 ammo. It's not great for T6 users either as it takes them 8 levels before they can use it, they only get to use those arrows for 2 levels before they are worthless.Admitedly it's not a great spell anyway, as it's only 1 arrow but it can be useful especially if you are farming with melee only for any length of time. Remember, every arrow counts !Please devs, if you are serious about resolving our expenditure on arrows then you can you address these spell line in GU#32 too ? <div></div>

[LoreLady]

With the new changes, makeshift arrows is fine.. Biting the hand that feeds you isent such a good idea *wink*..As for arrow rip, it would be nice if it made a t7 arrow - but other than that the changes are great changes and I look forward to seeing them implemented.

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR>With the new changes, makeshift arrows is fine.. Biting the hand that feeds you isent such a good idea *wink*..<BR><BR><STRONG>As for arrow rip, it would be nice if it made a t7 arrow</STRONG> - but other than that the changes are great changes and I look forward to seeing them implemented.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Rip is more a nusance to me than it is useful.  I still use it, but I keep a slot in the back of my quiver with at least one rip arrow in it.  That way, all those arrows go to that slot and I can destroy all but one arrow when it gets close to 99.  If they removed the arrow component from rip totally, I'd be happy with that.  I'd be happier if they made the arrows level appropriate, but that may be asking for too much.</P>

[EQ2Magroo]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:With the new changes, makeshift arrows is fine.. Biting the hand that feeds you isent such a good idea *wink*..As for arrow rip, it would be nice if it made a t7 arrow - but other than that the changes are great changes and I look forward to seeing them implemented.<hr></blockquote>As far as I'm concerned makeshift arrows is fine too. <span>:smileyhappy:</span>However, I can see that those <b>players between levels 30 and 62</b> are going to have varying issues. Anyone from level 50-61 is going to be the most affected as they have to use tier 5 arrows rather than tier 6 unless they pay for player made arrows. The other tiers are also affected, but not by such a big deal.The whole point of these changes was supposed to be that we didn't have to pay for vendor/player made arrows any more and could rely on our makeshift ones. This won't be the case for players < lvl 62.</div>

[Nulad]

Lets face it, it should be an easy fix (disclaimer: I've no idea how hard to code it would be) just give us a new reclaimed arrow line everytime the previous one grays out and then make rip/tear use that as it's reference for what it should be getting from the mob, I've never yet figured out how I can fire Adamantine arrows at a mob and rip Indium ones out.<div></div>

[sah]

<DIV>for the most part, except for special spells that scale with lvl or don't have upgrades, all spells for all classes get upgraded every 14 levels...no class has any spells that gets upgraded more often than every 14 levels and I seriously doubt that they are going to change that for just one spell line...and if they were going to make it scale with level then they'd have to remove the app/adept/master lvls and knowing them, they'd probably make it summon like adept1 amount of arrows and everyone would be complaining about that...</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </P><p>Message Edited by Sikeoka on <span class=date_text>02-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[Zholain]

<div><blockquote><hr><font size="2">Sikeoka wrote:</font><div><font size="2">uhmm..for the most part, all spells for all classes get upgraded every 14 levels...there's really no need to give rangers any sort of special treatment in this area...</font></div><hr></blockquote><font size="2">I have no idea if you play a ranger or not, but judging by this statement I would have to say you do not.This statement, by the way, is not entirely accurate.  Everquest 2 is has many spells / abilities that <i><b>do not</b></i> get replaced every 14 levels.  Spells that are considered key abilities by the classes to which they are given.Some skills scale with level.  Stealth and Rescue just to name a couple.  Asking to be provided with the basic tools required to do our job is not seeking special treatment.</font></div>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Zholain wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> <FONT size=2>Sikeoka wrote:<BR></FONT> <DIV><FONT size=2>uhmm..for the most part, all spells for all classes get upgraded every 14 levels...there's really no need to give rangers any sort of special treatment in this area...</FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><FONT size=2>I have no idea if you play a ranger or not, but judging by this statement I would have to say you do not.<BR><BR>This statement, by the way, is not entirely accurate.  Everquest 2 is has many spells / abilities that <I><B>do not</B></I> get replaced every 14 levels.  Spells that are considered key abilities by the classes to which they are given.<BR><BR>Some skills scale with level.  Stealth and Rescue just to name a couple.  Asking to be provided with the basic tools required to do our job is not seeking special treatment.<BR></FONT></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yep.  It only makes sense that Rangers get one CA for makeshift.  And that one CA should scale to the Ranger's level, just as  some of the CA/Spells used by what ever class Sikeoka plays.  This could hardly be considered "special treatment."<BR>

[sah]

I edited my post above to be more detailed and less rude :smileyhappy: <P> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <P></P> <HR> This statement, by the way, is not entirely accurate.  Everquest 2 is has many spells / abilities that <I><B>do not</B></I> get replaced every 14 levels. <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Yeah, I said most...go to eq2i.com and count the number of spells in spell lines that gets upgraded every 14 levels compared to the total number of spells and that's most.</P> <P>Message Edited by Sikeoka on <SPAN class=date_text>02-05-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:26 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Sikeoka on <span class=date_text>02-05-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:26 PM</span>

[Lev]

Who cares? it's not like makeshift arrows are an overpowering spell.. hell it's underpowering if anything exactly due to the stated mechanic. We are talking about a spell that summons arrows that only we can use, and that some tiers just don't get them. It's not like they are saying give us a nuke that hit's 200xlvl every tenth lvl.. there are two possible solutions to Magroo's problem.1. as allready stated a scaling spell that automaticly scales to the correct tier2. make the spell at 61/62 at every tier, in reality you are not t7 until your 61. This should also affect a possible leveled spell, due to said problem.<div></div>

[BigChiefJJ]

<P>I'd like to see a fix for this as well.  Not only for those unfortunate rangers from 31-62 but how bout those rangers that dont want to just Race to lvl 80 if and when the new lvl cap is out.   If they stick with the replacement spells every 14 then it will be lvl 76 before rangers are able to summon T8 ammo, so 6 levels of fighting T8 mobs with T7 ammo or buying T8 ammo from a woodworker once they reach appropriate level to make it.</P> <P>The rip line should come a little sooner but its still not scheduled till about lvl 72 and one arrow every time rip comes up does not last very long - unless i go farm grey's for a couple hours.</P>

[panther55]

<div><blockquote><hr>BigChiefJJ wrote:<div></div> <p>I'd like to see a fix for this as well.  Not only for those unfortunate rangers from 31-62 but how bout those rangers that dont want to just Race to lvl 80 if and when the new lvl cap is out.   If they stick with the replacement spells every 14 then it will be lvl 76 before rangers are able to summon T8 ammo, so 6 levels of fighting T8 mobs with T7 ammo or buying T8 ammo from a woodworker once they reach appropriate level to make it.</p> <p>The rip line should come a little sooner but its still not scheduled till about lvl 72 and one arrow every time rip comes up does not last very long - unless i go farm grey's for a couple hours.</p><hr></blockquote>The only place that quality of arrows makes a "huge" difference is raiding. You won't be raiding until 80 so not that big of an issue if you ask me. Is it nice to have appropriate tier ammo for xp groups and such? Yes. Are you going to miss out on a group because you are using t7 arrows instead of t8? No.</div>

[LoreLady]

Having one makeshift at level 4 or whatever would be pretty buggy if it went in.. Even with abunch of if statements, and stuff about tier of arrows.. I still see disaster.

[BigChiefJJ]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BigChiefJJ wrote:<BR> <P>I'd like to see a fix for this as well.  Not only for those unfortunate rangers from 31-62 but how bout those rangers that dont want to just Race to lvl 80 if and when the new lvl cap is out.   If they stick with the replacement spells every 14 then it will be lvl 76 before rangers are able to summon T8 ammo, so 6 levels of fighting T8 mobs with T7 ammo or buying T8 ammo from a woodworker once they reach appropriate level to make it.</P> <P>The rip line should come a little sooner but its still not scheduled till about lvl 72 and one arrow every time rip comes up does not last very long - unless i go farm grey's for a couple hours.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE dir=ltr> <DIV>The only place that quality of arrows makes a "huge" difference is raiding. You won't be raiding until 80 so not that big of an issue if you ask me. Is it nice to have appropriate tier ammo for xp groups and such? Yes. Are you going to miss out on a group because you are using t7 arrows instead of t8? No.<BR></DIV> <P></P> <DIV> <DIV>Odyssey 70 Ranger<BR>Odysham 70 Warden<BR>Immortal Fellowship<BR>Mistmoore<BR></DIV></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>Well that's not exactly true, I'm 70 now and i raid, not hardcore, but my guild gets together 2-3 times a week.  Now when the lvl cap comes out I doubt that we will be looking at the next expansion raids but we will probably still be doing KoS and EoF raids.  Does this mean i should be stuck using my summond T7 (lvl60) arrows on T8 (lvl 72-74) opponents even though I'd be a T8 ranger.  Granted the difference in damage is probably not that much, but i'd like every advantage I can get.  How much more would my DPS go up if i switched from T7 to T8 arrows on the same raid? No one knows as we dont have T8 common arrows yet but i'll take any advantage I can get even if its 25-50 dps.</P>