Arrows - From the tradeskill forums

[MoonglumHMV]

<LI>Quadrupling the number of arrows created by tradeskill recipes for them. (Not just arrows, but also thrown items!) The new numbers will look like 25/50/75/99 arrows/objects depending on success. <LI>Bumping up stats on tradeskilled arrows, and making them a wee bit more obvious as to their functionality. Hoping to get arrows to display their stats for GU32, but we'll have to see on that. <UL> <LI>The rounded (field point) arrows will have better range and accuracy, but poorer damage. </LI></UL> <UL> <LI>The bodkin (broadhead) arrows will have higher damage, but lower accuracy and range. <LI>The standard arrows will be a balanced mix of all three. <LI>Storebought arrows will come down in stats, probably ending up at about 3/4ths as good as the tradeskilled standard arrows.</LI></UL></LI> <P>Just thought someone should post this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Like it says above, GU 32.</P><p>Message Edited by MoonglumHMV on <span class=date_text>01-30-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:06 PM</span>

[Gnome mercy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MoonglumHMV wrote:<BR> <LI>Quadrupling the number of arrows created by tradeskill recipes for them. (Not just arrows, but also thrown items!) The new numbers will look like 25/50/75/99 arrows/objects depending on success. <LI>Bumping up stats on tradeskilled arrows, and making them a wee bit more obvious as to their functionality. Hoping to get arrows to display their stats for GU32, but we'll have to see on that. <UL> <LI>The rounded (field point) arrows will have better range and accuracy, but poorer damage. </LI></UL> <UL> <LI>The bodkin (broadhead) arrows will have higher damage, but lower accuracy and range. <LI>The standard arrows will be a balanced mix of all three. <LI>Storebought arrows will come down in stats, probably ending up at about 3/4ths as good as the tradeskilled standard arrows.</LI></UL></LI> <P>Just thought someone should post this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Like it says above, GU 32.</P> <P>Message Edited by MoonglumHMV on <SPAN class=date_text>01-30-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:06 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow thats so much better, makes me want to start a woodworker

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> MoonglumHMV wrote:<BR> <LI>Quadrupling the number of arrows created by tradeskill recipes for them. (Not just arrows, but also thrown items!) The new numbers will look like 25/50/75/99 arrows/objects depending on success. <LI>Bumping up stats on tradeskilled arrows, and making them a wee bit more obvious as to their functionality. Hoping to get arrows to display their stats for GU32, but we'll have to see on that. <UL> <LI>The rounded (field point) arrows will have better range and accuracy, but poorer damage. </LI></UL> <UL> <LI>The bodkin (broadhead) arrows will have higher damage, but lower accuracy and range. <LI>The standard arrows will be a balanced mix of all three. <LI>Storebought arrows will come down in stats, probably ending up at about 3/4ths as good as the tradeskilled standard arrows.</LI></UL></LI> <P>Just thought someone should post this. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yeah, while the idea that crafters will be able to make more arrows per combine is great, the problem then becomes a supply and demand issue. This is not going to bode well for most rangers that have to supplement their summoned arrows to raid. </P> <P>Heres why.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Storebought arrows will come down in stats, probably ending up at about 3/4ths as good as the tradeskilled standard arrows</FONT></P> <P>This is going to be a huge problem. This basicly says that if we want to either keep our DPS the same we will have to buy arrows from crafters. (the cheaper vendor arrows will be taking a hit.. the one thing that isnt clear is.. how will this effect summoned arrows?) </P> <P>Not enough players craft arrows, due to the time problem, and its not a great way to earn money.. Well not anymore. Since crafted arrows will be better, the demand for them is going to spike up. Fewer arrows on the market means that a player can either save money, and buy the cheaper, not so good vendor arrows, or take an even bigger dent to their arrow costs to keep their dps as high as possible.</P> <P>Leaving the price of arrows ( a rangers main way of dealing damage ) in the hands of greedy crafters that want nothing more but then to earn money to buy god knows what is just asking for more complaints from rangers. This is good for all those rangers that have become woodworkers I guess, but bad for anyone that didnt.</P> <P> </P> <P>On another note... did you  copy and past that from somewhere? cause I dont see how they are going to increase our range with a rounded arrow.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[MoonglumHMV]

<P>Quick reply, Yes I cut it out of a Dev post, it's part of a larger post:  <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=128454#M128454" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=general_tradeskill&message.id=128454#M128454</A></P> <P> </P>

[TaleraRis]

I'm with Nesse. I want to see how the changes affect summoned arrows, what quality they'll be in comparison, if # summoned is being adjusted to compensate in any way. I can't quite agree about the greedy crafters, seeing as I'm working on my way to being in the 630 club, but making us more monetarily dependent for good DPS is a step in the wrong direction, if that's what this change is going to mean.<div></div>

[Sulas]

<div></div>As a higher level Woodworker, I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about.  The first thing I'll probably do is make a quiver full of arrows for myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  25 per combine seemed like a waste of timewith no benefit (and I don't raid).  As for making arrows to sell, the factors I'll have to take into consideration are the cost of manufacture and the cost of vendor arrows.  With any luck, the price for player-made arrows will be in line with the benefit of using them.  As for seeing scarcity drive the cost up?, I wouldn't worry about that either since players jsut won't buy them if they're not worth it. <div></div>edit: I can't spell<p>Message Edited by Sulas on <span class=date_text>01-30-2007</span> <span class=time_text>11:30 PM</span>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sulas wrote:<BR> As a higher level Woodworker, I don't think you have a whole lot to worry about.  The first thing I'll probably do is make a quiver full of arrows for myself <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  25 per combine seemed like a waste of timewith no benefit (and I don't raid). <BR><BR>As for making arrows to sell, the factors I'll have to take into consideration are the cost of manufacture and the cost of vendor arrows.  With any luck, the price for player-made arrows will be in line with the benefit of using them.  As for seeing scarcity drive the cost up?, I wouldn't worry about that either since players jsut won't buy them if they're not worth it.<BR><BR> edit: I can't spell<BR> <P>Message Edited by Sulas on <SPAN class=date_text>01-30-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>11:30 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Maybe you missed a few things... maybe I wasnt very clear.. let me try again</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>·</FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000><SPAN>  </SPAN>Quadrupling the number of arrows created by tradeskill recipes for them. (Not just arrows, but also thrown items!) The new numbers will look like 25/50/75/99 arrows/objects depending on success.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>·</FONT></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000><SPAN>  </SPAN>Bumping up stats on tradeskilled arrows, and making them a wee bit more obvious as to their functionality. Hoping to get arrows to display their stats for GU32, but we'll have to see on that.</FONT></SPAN></FONT></P> <UL> <LI><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>The rounded (field point) arrows will have better range and accuracy, but poorer damage. </FONT></SPAN></LI></UL> <UL> <LI><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>The bodkin (broadhead) arrows will have higher damage, but lower accuracy and range. </FONT></SPAN></LI> <LI><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>The standard arrows will be a balanced mix of all three. </FONT></SPAN></LI> <LI><SPAN><FONT color=#ff0000>Storebought arrows will come down in stats, probably ending up at about 3/4ths as good as the tradeskilled standard arrows.</FONT></SPAN></LI></UL> <P><SPAN>They first say they will be "bumping up the stats" on Tradeskill arrows. Then they say Storebought arrows will come down in stats. Which is it? It is both? If Player crafted arrows are going to be "equal to, or better" then current storebought arrows, then this can, and most likely will impact rangers everywhere.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>Its fairly clear that we will be at the mercy (if you dont own a summoning bow) of crafters. We need arrows... its not something we can just decide we wont use to save some money.. We need them, its how we earn our keep. Once this goes live, Im sure that woodworkers will be crafting arrows like mad, and at first they will test the waters to see how much they can get away with before players decide to stop buying. So prices might not seem all that bad for starters, but give it some time. Rangers withouth arrow summoning bows, will of course want to deal as much damage each and every raid. That means, no more store bought arrows for them, since player crafted will be decidedly better. Demand for the product will go up, once that happens... so will the price. Coinsider this, DPS is like crack for a ranger(we all want it, we gotta have it)... that would make woodworkers our dealers! Now that I think about it. Woodworkers might actually benifit more if they gave away a free stack to start with. </SPAN></P> <P><SPAN></SPAN> </P> <P><SPAN>But anyways.. anyone thats every had, or does from time to time, buy store bought arrows, will now have their DPS reduced. Unless they buy player crafted, in which case, its possible they might get a slight increase... or they might just stay the same.</SPAN></P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#000000></FONT></SPAN> </P>

[Aeralik]

Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div>

[AmericanPsycho]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>omg :smileyvery-happy:

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Well that will certainly make a difference, and even change my outlook on crafted arrows.</P> <P>Thanks for dropping by and clearing this up Aeralik. This should be a welcome change for rangers everywhere.</P>

[Caliga]

<blockquote><hr>Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Okay, I've just gone from hating you to wanting to have your babies.<div></div>

[xOnaton1]

<div></div>Ok, this sounds like a great compromise to me. I've always thought "Shoot, for my CAs I may as well be using tin arrows." Woodworkers are pretty rare nowdays, but I think with this arrow change, they will have a consumable product that they can make decent money off of. My guess is that a lot of new woodworkers and woodworker alts will be...      coming out of the woodwork.  <span>:smileywink:</span>Othesus - Dirge - Lucan DLereVaspar - Fury - Lucan DLere<div></div>

[Calthine]

I think you'll find there's lots of Woodworkers, but arrows weren't worth the time investment for the profit.This is win-win, IMO.  I look forward to cranking out quiversful of arrows!<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><blockquote><hr>Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div><hr></blockquote>*blinks in shock and then faints*I think I am now looking forward to GU32 more than I was looking forward to the release of EoF.  Between the tradeskill changes and the other changes coming... it will be amazing.  Too bad its not the one coming next but the one after next.</div>

[snowbrdr093]

All the changes to crafted arrows are wonderful and all, but if they are in any way superior to summoned ammo from Bazkul or Ichorstrand it will be a step in the wrong direction.<div></div>

[Lev]

Lol I wrote a long post about how unhappy I was with how small the increase really was.. Why wasn't this posted directly into our arrow thread the second it got confirmed.. by a dev??.. JK this is great, and a big win for ranged all over. I am in extacy right now.. not that it matters so godfully much to me right now (as I have Bazkul), but for the ranger community as a whole this is one of the greater things to be fixed about our class.. <div></div>

[Deson]

<div><blockquote><hr>snowbrdr093 wrote:All the changes to crafted arrows are wonderful and all, but if they are in any way superior to summoned ammo from Bazkul or Ichorstrand it will be a step in the wrong direction.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Why?</div>

[Nulad]

Well Iguess we'll see how it plays out after the LU <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I know one thing for sure, my tradeskill level is going to go up <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Thankyou. <div></div>

[snowbrdr093]

<div><blockquote><hr>Deson wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>snowbrdr093 wrote:All the changes to crafted arrows are wonderful and all, but if they are in any way superior to summoned ammo from Bazkul or Ichorstrand it will be a step in the wrong direction.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Why?</div><hr></blockquote>Let's see... Raid dropped fabled bow ammo... Common harvested and crafted ammo... Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</div>

[Kamarile]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deson wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR>All the changes to crafted arrows are wonderful and all, but if they are in any way superior to summoned ammo from Bazkul or Ichorstrand it will be a step in the wrong direction.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Let's see... Raid dropped fabled bow ammo... Common harvested and crafted ammo... Does anything more need to be said, honestly?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>"Stuff you have to pay for" vs "Stuff that's free"</P> <P>Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</P>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spudface wrote: <P><BR>"Stuff you have to pay for" vs "Stuff that's free"</P> <P>Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>haha spoken like a true crafter. Player crafted items should NEVER be better then anything you'd get from a fabled item. Honestly, did that really have to be stated? And the last time I checked. Players werent able to craft items better then legendary.... sooo.....</P> <P> </P>

[Deson]

Let's not even go there. I really wanted a full answer. It's not like the bows only summoned arrows, the stats on them are solid rewards for the effort of raiding and really the summoned arrows were great more because of a mechanics weakness that's being fixed than anything else. Will the changes affect the value of the bow? Yes. Will it affect the value so much as the bow is worthless though?<div></div>

[Nulad]

<div></div>Summoned arrows are being left alone.<a href="../view_profile?user.id=67602" target="_blank"><span></span></a>Ilucide said: Not to worry, I'm not touching summoned arrows at all - just vendor & tradeskilled. <span><img src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span><div></div>

[Bithnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><EM>*falls out of his chair*</EM>

[Loki_d20]

<i>Nevermind: see that answer on summoned is answered two posts above this <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></i><p>Message Edited by Loki_d20 on <span class=date_text>01-31-2007</span> <span class=time_text>08:31 AM</span>

[Loki_d20]

<div><blockquote><hr>TerriBlades wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Spudface wrote: <p>"Stuff you have to pay for" vs "Stuff that's free"</p> <p>Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>haha spoken like a true crafter. Player crafted items should NEVER be better then anything you'd get from a fabled item. Honestly, did that really have to be stated? And the last time I checked. Players werent able to craft items better then legendary.... sooo.....</p> <hr></blockquote>Not true.  With a fabled item you are getting the stats and the DPS of the item, in regards to a bow at least, whereas the summoning factor is a 'bonus' similar to the speed on journeyman boots.  This doesn't mean that because the ability is on a fabled item it should be superior to all tiers of crafted arrows.</div>

[Kamarile]

<P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Loki_d20 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TerriBlades wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Spudface wrote: <P><BR>"Stuff you have to pay for" vs "Stuff that's free"</P> <P>Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>haha spoken like a true crafter. Player crafted items should NEVER be better then anything you'd get from a fabled item. Honestly, did that really have to be stated? And the last time I checked. Players werent able to craft items better then legendary.... sooo.....</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Not true.  With a fabled item you are getting the stats and the DPS of the item, in regards to a bow at least, whereas the summoning factor is a 'bonus' similar to the speed on journeyman boots.  This doesn't mean that because the ability is on a fabled item it should be superior to all tiers of crafted arrows.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Agreed.  If the bow had crappy stats and t1 dps, but could summon arrows, then I'd agree the arrows should be pretty [I cannot control my vocabulary] amazing, and a lot better than anything else you can get.  But as it is, the Bows would still be among the most wanted loot in the game without the ability to summon arrows - the arrow summoning is just an added extra, and not the be-all and end-all of the item's purpose.</P>

[Bithnar]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Nuladen wrote:<BR> Summoned arrows are being left alone.<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=67602" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A>Ilucide said: Not to worry, I'm not touching summoned arrows at all - just vendor & tradeskilled. <SPAN><IMG height=16 src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" width=16 border=0></SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Actually I wish he would touch the summoned arrows . . .  but only the quantity summoned and not the quality.  It would also be great if they would fix the tier issues with summoned arrows.

[Deson]

<div><blockquote><hr>Bithnar wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Nuladen wrote: <div></div>Summoned arrows are being left alone.<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=67602" target="_blank"><span></span></a>Ilucide said: Not to worry, I'm not touching summoned arrows at all - just vendor & tradeskilled. <span><img src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" border="0" height="16" width="16"></span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>Actually I wish he would touch the summoned arrows . . .  but only the quantity summoned and not the quality.  It would also be great if they would fix the tier issues with summoned arrows.<hr></blockquote>That's somtheing else that always bugged me- why is this even an upgrading spell? Even if they do want this and other arrow summon abilities to upgrade, the upgrade should be the amount and not the quality of arrow.</div>

[Teksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>TerriBlades wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Spudface wrote: <p>"Stuff you have to pay for" vs "Stuff that's free"</p> <p>Does anything more need to be said, honestly?</p> <hr> </blockquote> <p>haha spoken like a true crafter. Player crafted items should NEVER be better then anything you'd get from a fabled item. Honestly, did that really have to be stated? And the last time I checked. Players werent able to craft items better then legendary.... sooo.....</p> <hr></blockquote>I will KIND OF disagree with you there... BUT T7 crafted arrows should NOT be better than T8 arrows os ANY kind...</div>

[LoreLady]

<font color="#ff0000"><b>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.</b></font>No combat arts consuming arrows means your using 9 arrows per min with a longbow, or  13 arrows per min with a short bow (on base times).. No other arrows are consumed.. Currently arrows require 3 raws, 4 materials, they are cheap to make and with demand going as it is shown even if your spending  7g per stack of crafted arrows (what im going to charge mine at), it means your going to be spending somethng ~70s per minute and 70s is alot better than spending 3g per min. This is only if you want to go in with your A game in groups/raiding..As for typical combat, you will never run out of arrows again with an adept 3'd version of reclaimed EVER... Even if you dont want to spend the money, its still a viable option. Even when I had no dt bow, I still made the high parses with my guild at the time..

[Zholain]

<font size="2">I, personally, don't feel that there should be t8 arrows.  It shouldn't require ammunition from a tier that doesn't exist for rangers to do their job effectively.</font>

[Ranja]

<div><blockquote><hr>Zholain wrote:<font size="2">I, personally, don't feel that there should be t8 arrows.  It shouldn't require ammunition from a tier that doesn't exist for rangers to do their job effectively.</font><hr></blockquote>I 100% agree with this. We have to have a weapon from a tier that does not even exist to do our job effectively. How lame is that?!Anyways, I am pysched about this change as long as summoning arrows do not change. Does this mean that our summon arrows will do the same damage as TS crafted arrows? Or are we going to be forced to be strapped to a WW to get our arrows if we want to be effective. If that is the case, they have added another broken mechanic to cover a broken mechanic. If we need WW arrows to do our best job, then again we are the only class that relies on a TS class to do our job effectively. Let the gouging begin<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[kartikeya]

<P>All reservations about quality of TS arrows versus summoned arrows notwithstanding, and ignoring the argument about the T8 summoning bows (because I'm tired)...</P> <P>SQUEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!</P>

[Oakum]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Deson wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> snowbrdr093 wrote:<BR>All the changes to crafted arrows are wonderful and all, but if they are in any way superior to summoned ammo from Bazkul or Ichorstrand it will be a step in the wrong direction.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Why?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Let's see... Raid dropped fabled bow ammo... Common harvested and crafted ammo... Does anything more need to be said, honestly?<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Elitism aside, if you read the post about it, from lowest to highest, its store bought, summoned, crafted. Then the arrows from the fabled since it is T8 ammo that it summons it would be better then any T7 and crafted storebought T8 for that matter after the next lvl cap raise. The bow being fabled doesnt make the arrows it summons fabled unless it specifically says they are. </P>

[Boramyr]

Aeralik, will equipped arrows still affect the Damage type of Combat Arts even after CA's no longer consume arrows?   I would hate to loose the ability to do crushing or slashing damage against piercing resitant mobs, or is this no longer considered an issue since total damage type immunity has been removed?  And if the answer is yes how will quivers affect this with mixed ammo in the quiver?

[Caliga]

<div><blockquote><hr>Boramyr wrote:<div></div>Aeralik, will equipped arrows still affect the Damage type of Combat Arts even after CA's no longer consume arrows?   I would hate to loose the ability to do crushing or slashing damage against piercing resitant mobs, or is this no longer considered an issue since total damage type immunity has been removed?  And if the answer is yes how will quivers affect this with mixed ammo in the quiver?<hr></blockquote>CAs ignored the type of arrow that was being used for a long time now.  You can use tin arrows and your CAs will work normally, its just your auto attack would always miss.</div>

[Boramyr]

<DIV>They ignored it for damage modification, but it would still change the Damage Type if you equipped a Crushing or a Slashing arrow then your CA's would start doing Crushing or Slashing Damage.  </DIV>

[electricninjasex]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class=date_text>01-31-2007</span> <span class=time_text>12:08 PM</span>

[EQ2Magroo]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Boramyr wrote:<div>They ignored it for damage modification, but it would still change the Damage Type if you equipped a Crushing or a Slashing arrow then your CA's would start doing Crushing or Slashing Damage. </div><hr></blockquote>Does this mean if a mob is pierce resistant, then would my ranged CAs would now fail to do any damage ? Perhaps the mob has bad +crushing deflects so I want to use crushing arrows to get max damage, how would I do that when my CAs are not using a type of arrow that I can't control ?Here's hoping the devs have thought this change through fully....<blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div>hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo. For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful? Isn't that just common sense?<hr></div></blockquote>Yes, it's common sense. However, there is just no way a Ranger can afford for common sense to apply !Remember that Rangers are using anything from 1-2k arrows *per hour* at the moment so something has to give. Even though supply through Woodworkers is being increased (it remains to be seen how this plays out with pricing, but a 8s arrow should drop to say 2s now, which is 2GP a stack), it still ends up costing a lot of Plat for ammo. If I spend 2 *PP* a day now on arrows, then assuming supply results in prices being 4x cheaper, then it's still 50GP I throw away each day just to do my normal DPS.Removing CA ammo usage will simply put Rangers back on a level playing field with other classes in terms of day to day running costs. (oh look, in my excitement I totally forgot about poison costs...ooops)</div><p>Message Edited by EQ2Magroo on <span class=date_text>01-31-2007</span> <span class=time_text>09:24 AM</span>

[Prandtl]

<P>These are very welcome changes, however they still ignore one basic problem:  namely getting a summoned arrow upgrade every 14 levels instead of every 10.  We get an upgrade at levels 20, 34, 48, and 62.  That means that for almost half of T4, most of T5, ALL of T6 and part of T7 rangers are forced to either buy arrows or use sub-par weapons.   </P> <P>How hard would it be for this to upgrade at 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60? And when the level cap is raised, add a new one at 70</P>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?<BR><BR>That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.<BR><BR>Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>01-31-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>how much ammo does your wizard and coercer go through and how much management do you have to do?

[dubbs]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?<BR><BR>That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.<BR><BR>Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>01-31-2007</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:08 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is exactly what it means, and exactly the way it should be.  Ammo management?  When wizards have to start purchasing spell components for 90% of any spells they want to cast then we can talk.</P> <P>There is no reason a ranger should be forced to stand around for 5 hours doing nothing but summoning arrows to ensure he doesn't run out on a raid, or going out and buying 6p worth of arrows to make it through the night.</P>

[Caliga]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div>For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  </div><hr></blockquote>Yes, you and some other "role players" that want rangers to suffer for the sake of "authenticity".  These people for some reason tend to be mages, I have no idea why... Seems like people so wrapped up in it all being "real" would go hunting or something, not playing computer games.</div>

[Kala Asuras]

posted 1/9/07 <span></span><i>Months and months ago I participated in a long discussion about arrows.  I still feel that the ideal situation would be if CAs could be made to not consume arrows but still proc all effects correctly.  Our consumption goes down to auto attack (yes more than other classes but a solution I could live with) and a huge plus is that it would make it possible for us to get the full benefit of higher quality crafted arrows if they are ever put in (another if). </i>I couldn't be happier.  Our arrow demand goes way down, we get a reasonably priced option for arrows of higher quality than our summoned ones, and carpenters have a new market.<div></div>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> electricninjasex wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aeralik wrote:<BR>Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?<BR><BR>That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.<BR><BR>Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <SPAN class=date_text>01-31-2007</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>12:08 PM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Weren't you one of the most vocal people screaming for a Ranger nerf back in the DoF Days?  I see you're still lurking the Ranger forums.<BR>

[Ranja]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> electricninjasex wrote: <div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div> <blockquote> <hr> Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</div> <p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class="date_text">01-31-2007</span><span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote>Weren't you one of the most vocal people screaming for a Ranger nerf back in the DoF Days?  I see you're still lurking the Ranger forums.<hr></blockquote>Yep he was and I have no idea why he is posting in these boards. Troll FTW</div>

[AziBam]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?That's like when Deus Ex 2 decided that instead of rocket launchers consuming rockets and guns consuming bullets, all weapons would draw from this shared abstract pool called "ammo".  It was tacky and everyone knew it.  And the game paid a price for it.Point being, ammo management has always been a key immersion factor in 3-D games.</div><p>Message Edited by electricninjasex on <span class="date_text">01-31-2007</span> <span class="time_text">12:08 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>GRRRRR!So then in order to achieve balance if a change like the proposed one (which is insufficient IMHO but better than nothing) were not implememented then instead all casters now require CATALYST X for their spells.  Catalyst x is required to tap into the magical realms in order to draw out your powers.  Catalyst x is consumed every time you cast a spell.  Catalyst x can be stored in a magic bag or in your normal inventory.  Spell casters are now given the ability to summon a quantity of catalyst x every 15 minutes.  In order to keep up with heavy usage they will need to purchase low quality catalyst x from an npc vendor (thereby lowering the damage done by their spells) or they may purchase higher quality catalyst x from their local alchemist for whatever rate the market will hold.  If you run out of catalyst x...you may choose to hit whatever mob you are fighting with your staff or wand.All melee classes will also be required to carry whetstones and handle wraps.  It's logical that weapons become dull or worn through usage.  The assumption is that each of those classes will be constantly be using their whetstones to keep the edge on their weapons sharp or in the case of a crushing weapon to keep the handle in good working order.   Both of those components would be  consumed during all combat.  Just as the casters they now can summon a quantity every 15 mins....etc.  you get my drift.  It's called balance.  As things stand.  Rangers are the ONLY CLASS that has a constantly consumed component for their primary form of damage.  </div>

[Starness]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR>I'm with Nesse. I want to see how the changes affect summoned arrows, what quality they'll be in comparison, if # summoned is being adjusted to compensate in any way. I can't quite agree about the greedy crafters, seeing as I'm working on my way to being in the 630 club, <STRONG><U>but making us more monetarily dependent for good DPS is a step in the wrong direction</U></STRONG>, if that's what this change is going to mean.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>QFE - This seems like a good step on the surface, under the surface it's just another way to make us spend more money. The cost of arrows may go down, our use of arrows may go down, but if makeshift arrows are on par with store bought after this change then any Ranger who wants to do their job to the best of their ability might as well take their summon arrows ability off their hotbar and forget about it. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kitsune286]

I personally believe the order of arrow quality will go like this:Vendor > Makeshift > Player Crafted > Bow-SummonedI also believe that Makeshift and Bow-Summoned will get no changes to them, so I think the dps numbers will NOT change for Makeshift and Bow-Summoned. If you go with Player Crafted, you would see better numbers than makeshift, but still not as good as the summoned.Remember, this is my beliefs. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Also, if combat arts no longer burn arrows, that means Steam Of Arrows won't burn ammo anymore too? Coool.<div></div>

[Tobann]

CA no longer require arrows...what great news!I hope they will have some info in the description,like damage rating so we can see the difference in crafted and summoned, for us non parsers.Buaf<div></div>

[TaleraRis]

<div><blockquote><hr>electricninjasex wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Aeralik wrote:Something to keep in mind is that combat arts will no longer consume ammo either with GU32.  So yes you will want the tradeskilled arrows with that update but at the same time you should be consuming fewer arrows.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I hope you don't mean combat arts that explicitly involve the use of ammo.  For Triple Shot to describe itself as the successive attack of three arrows, am I the only one who thinks that three arrows should be removed from inventory when it's successful?  Isn't that just common sense?</div><hr></blockquote>Sure. I play D&D. I think it's also common sense for mages to require spell components to cast their spells. </div>

[Emperors]

<P>CA's no longer requiring ammo is a good thing.</P> <P>Forcing Ranger's to pay for DPS is just wrong any way you look at it.</P>

[Jaggid]

<DIV>*happy dance*</DIV>