Focus Aim FTW

[Jaack Daniels]

<DIV>How many here would like to see focus aim become a maintained spell <STRONG>without being nerfed</STRONG>? Sacrificing pretty much any ability to melee a mob for a definite chance to trash it at range seems like a reasonable trade.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I ran a few controlled trials to see exactly what the difference is if this spell were maintained.</DIV> <DIV>These are based off 15sec fights in 2 forms burst dps (dropping our entire spell line at once) and cruising(raid style casting). Int and Agi AA. Double attack (which is broken) and extension. Grandmaster Caustic Poison and Grandmaster Stupefying poison combined with Raincaller for this test. The subject Level 66 heroic ghosts outside of freethinkers hideout.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Burst / Focus Aim on</DIV> <DIV>2400-3000dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cruising / Focus Aim on</DIV> <DIV>1300-1500dps</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Burst / Focus Aim off</DIV> <DIV>1000-1200</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Cruising / Focus Aim off</DIV> <DIV>600-900</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think we are all familiar with these numbers we see em every day saying this is broken this isnt. Well I picked the best average obtainable bow for this task (not bazkul as tarinax is a deusch and wont drop it) summoned arrows standard poisons and the usual aa lines. Flaming aside these are the numbers.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>How many would like to see Focus Aim become a maintained spell without any stat reduction? It would put most people on track with their assassin bretheren without makin the class overkill for the decked out raiders. All rangers would benefit from the boost making the strong stronger as they want to be and the not so fortunate a little more comfortable with the class. Everybody wins no flames needed. Post thoughts and/or support.</DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>Red</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:55 AM</span>

[Merkad]

<div></div>I think it is safe to say that most would, especially those with high end bows. Though, imo, I think nothing but Focus Aim always on would be overpowering. I would have..~80% ranged crit chance ~150/160ish haste ~190 dps and ~60% spell crits with that in my normal raid group. Since I have Bazkul for ammo, and a ASWB (which I have seen hit for 9309 (still a new bow for me)) coupled with Double Attack.. Definitely strong. And when I say this I am meaning as in Focus Aim with no other combat CAs, not just melee. While I have not parsed just the auto attack while using it, I cannot imagine it being weak..maybe I will do that for amusement this week, I am kinda curious now.And if one were to get the LBoC or SDL..especially the SDL. Basically, I think as your weapon gets better, the bonus from that spell line gets much better, the other Ranger in my guild does not have t8 ammo and uses a Raincaller and thinks less of Focus Aim than I do.I am curious, what do you mean Double Attack AA is broken? As in it procs too much, or not enough? A guildie was saying the same thing to me the other day (not enough/at all), but personally I see double attack going off quite a fair amount (I have a separate window for just my damage).Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.edit - corrected an acronym.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Merkades on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:56 AM</span>

[Jaack Daniels]

<DIV>Well not to get off topic but if you turn off all poisons all procs just default attack and kiting around 100 arrows yielded 2 procs off it. Should be in the ballpark of 8-12 not 2 with heavy haste we will see it proc more often but is by no means 10% rate on auto attack.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the insane dps off the top end bows if you have it dont you deserve it? Any higher than 2000-2500 will get your face ripped off but thats just me. And its what raid rangers are pretty much doing now. Get a troub in the mix with jester's cap being spammed on ya and we are right on the mark.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's time to put the burst back in our dps rather than having it yoyo between CAs and default damage and never being able to break that string with some on demand damage spikes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Will agree ok 80% crit damage is kind of insane but in the grand scheme of things who is gonna be laying out all their arts at once. If an assassin did so it would be 3000dps and instant death say hello to jesus and wait for rez. Spamming all our CA's in one solid string honestly shouldnt hurt our dps but spike it get us aggro and we die like a true dps class.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Maybe bring it down a little but not too much. 60-70% maybe?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I really don't want to get into the non-linear damage ratings of bow's as we get into the haves and have nots just an option to benefit all and that's what it's about.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember when our defensive stance was only like a 20sec buff long ago? Same proposal for our top dps self buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for the default dps with bazkul with and without focus aim i would like to see those numbers also please post em. We all know the numbers with CA's but lets find out exactly what % of our dps it makes up in 15secs. I'm gonna guess about 70-80%</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Other options are to seriously boost our CAs but SOE won't go that far for us. A spell to click on and off for burst damage would be nice substitute. As it stands for the top end arrow flingers you have to try not to press buttons or else your dps suffers. This would put into play not pushing buttons or you will die like any mage or assassin.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:48 AM</span>

[AfflictedOne]

Focus aim is the best combat art that rangers have.  Even in it's 10 second/60 second recast form.  It's one of the few things that makes playing a ranger something that requires a little bit of skill.  If it's maintained then all the timing/saving stuff for it goes away and you become nothing more than a semi-afk dps bot.  Not to mention that it would have to be nerfed into oblivion to be changed into a perm buff.In other word don't mess with what's not broken.  Go look at the parts of the ranger class that are broken.  Arrow use.  Combat arts doing too little damage.  Multi arrow shots that stop once the first one misses instead of have to-hit checks for all 2 or 3 shots.  The drop rate of bows.  The list goes on and on, but focus aim is not one of 'em.<div></div>

[Aroumon]

Double attack is not broken and never has broken it goes off on average of 9.89% of the time for me when I am not illusionist buffed. Please stop saying its broken because its not.

[Jaack Daniels]

<DIV>Gettin off track with the double attack issue it isnt fuctioning the same for everyone but that is a whole different topic.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>As for not messing with what isnt broken this would solve alot of it. Arrow consumption could be cut in half by doing twice the damage. Our combat arts would hit like a freight train. The series attacks wont miss nearly as much with the boost to ranged skill and since release it has been an issue they aren't going to change that portion of the mechanics for us. As for the timing it's a pointless process because to get the numbers we should be getting relies on group buffs that do the same thing anyways.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Time to get over the fact they arent going to sift through our spell line to up the damage of every CA and arrow consumption isnt so bad, it comes with being a ranger. There are more complaints of dps then anything else but if yall wish to keep bickering in the forums by all means go for it. I'll keep peckin away at tarinax. I provided the numbers and a solution to our problem.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop focusing on the symptoms and look at the core issue.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>01:23 PM</span>

[Gareorn]

Focus aim works fine as it is.  Our DPS problem can be solved through better itemization.  Arrow consumption and cost is the only thing that needs an overhaul.  I'd hardly call focus aim our core issue.  It works great if used properly.

[Zholain]

<font size="2">AfflictedOne wasn't talking about Double Arrow.  He was talking about Precise Shot and Triple Volley.</font><div></div>

[Aroumon]

<DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Alright I know Focus Aim is awsome but it would be really gimped if they made in a conc slot agian. Yet there might be a better solution to this problem if we look deep enough.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>First solution</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Lets look at what CAs we have in DoF</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Sniper Shot - Worthless</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Stream of Arrows - Semi Worthless</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Thorny Trap - this spell is so worthless that I forget that I even bought it.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>What if they revamped one of these spells, say sniper shot, due to it hitting for about the same as auto attack and taking way to long to cast, and made a buff called Eagle Eye.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Eagle eye would do the following at Master I and would be a conc buff</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Increase attack speed of caster by 30</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Increase DPS mod of caster by 30</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>increase Ranged Crit chance of caster by 20%</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Increase Range Double attack by 5%</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Increase Ranged of caster by 50</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Decrease slashing and piercing of caster by 130</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Misc downfall</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Other downfalls could include:</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Reduces movement speed of caster by 35%</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Or</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Recrease mitigation of caster by 500</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>or something simular to that.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Just an idea that would never happen.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Aroumon Swiftshot</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Ranger 70</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Second Dawn</SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by Aroumon on <span class=date_text>01-11-2007</span> <span class=time_text>04:40 PM</span>

[Stormhawk]

Eagle Eye should replace Snipers Shot and be the buff form of Extension.  Extension should remain as a passive ability giving us 10% more accuracy with both Eagle Eye and Extension.Stream of Arrows should be replaced with a short duration buff like Focus Aim but restricted to auto attack only.  Basically turning us into a devistating auto attack machine for a few seconds.New Stream of Arrows - Duration 0:15 seconds Recast 3:00Stifles Caster ( If I remember correctly, Daze prevents autoattack and Stifle is CAs )Roots CasterIncrease Ranged Double Attack by 100%Increase Ranged Crit Chance by 100%<div><span class="time_text">Increase Attack Speed of caster by 100</span></div> <div><span class="time_text">Increase DPS mod of caster by 100</span><span class="time_text"></span> <div><span class="time_text">Increase Ranged of caster by 50</span><span class="time_text"></span> <div><span class="time_text">Decrease Slashing and Piercing of caster by 130</span></div></div><span class="time_text">Change the Stream AA to reduce recast by 6 seconds per rank.The idea being Focus Aim would be our burst while ranged CAs are up then we would move into SoA while CAs refresh.  We should get 3-5 assured doubled cirt shots, plus any procs from poison and Archer's Frenzy.  This should give us roughly 30 seconds of burst damage in a fight assuming both Focus Aim and SoA are up and we are at 100 AAs.I could be way off base here but that would be way more useful then SoA is currently.</span></div><div></div>

[Merkad]

@Zholain - You are correct that AflictedOne was talking about multi arrow attacks, but just about everyone else in the thread is talking about double attack. Jaack mentioned it as broken to which I replied on, followed by Jaack, Aflicted multi mention (the only multi shot mention), Aroumon and finally again Jaack's double attack mentioning. So out of the first 6 posts, 5 were talking about the double attack. I am assuming responses after AflictedOne's post were still referring to the whole broke or not issue.Not that it is a big deal, just that people other than him were talking about it.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<div></div>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">Yes, but folks were referring to Aflicted's post as if he were complaining about Double Arrow when he wasn't.</font><div></div>

[Jaack Daniels]

<DIV>Just proposing a band aid approach to the current situation as SOE loves em. Didn't want this to turn into another OMG OMG IM A BROKE RANGER thread lol. I just wanted to show some better numbers and get some opinions and maybe show SOE there is an easy solution to make people happy. Happy hunting all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also should remember when focus aim was a conc slot spell it didnt have the crit damage attached to it like it does now and thats where alot of our damage is coming from.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class=date_text>01-12-2007</span> <span class=time_text>02:46 PM</span>

[Judist]

<DIV>It's too powerful to consider making it a perm/concentration buff.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Aroumon]

<DIV>If everybody thinks rangers are that [Removed for Content] than something must be done, we cannot let a thread die so easily when we start to come up with ideas that might improve out class, the first step to getting something fixed is being noticed...and 90192 diffrent posts will not accompish what we are trying to do...what us rangers need to do is make "the perfect post" and be as polite as possible leaving our emotions behind. If we all band together we can get things changed..it has been proven before and has been used agienst us a few times. So what do you say rangers..become a team and get things changed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aroumon Swiftshot</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Second Dawn</DIV>

[Gnome mercy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aroumon wrote:<BR> <DIV>If everybody thinks rangers are that [Removed for Content] than something must be done, we cannot let a thread die so easily when we start to come up with ideas that might improve out class, the first step to getting something fixed is being noticed...and 90192 diffrent posts will not accompish what we are trying to do...what us rangers need to do is make "the perfect post" and be as polite as possible leaving our emotions behind. If we all band together we can get things changed..it has been proven before and has been used agienst us a few times. So what do you say rangers..become a team and get things changed?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aroumon Swiftshot</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Second Dawn</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>check out the arrows, bloody hell post its a really good one i havent read the whole entire thing only missed very few posts but ive noticed a dev post on there and hopefully they will have a fix for this asap. Honestly all in all if youve got some thoughts then check out the post and leave your thoughts behind, i havent noticed any flames on there but with a select few rangers they tend to flame alot so hopefully they don't turn it into a flame post

[Aroumon]

<DIV>That is one post on something very remedial about our class that helps with cash consumtion and resource consumtion which is awsome but we need something that will help us combat wise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aroumon Swiftshot</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Second Dawn</DIV>

[Gnome mercy]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Aroumon wrote:<BR> <DIV>That is one post on something very remedial about our class that helps with cash consumtion and resource consumtion which is awsome but we need something that will help us combat wise.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aroumon Swiftshot</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger</DIV> <DIV>Second Dawn</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>well theres a little more to it we talk over alot more problems than just resource consumption, but keep this in mind, if we turn focus aim intoa  perm/conc buff they most likely take away the ranged crit % and we will loose alot of stats, just tell them to bring our more than one proc stuff back on ranged CAs and our dps will be fine

[Aroumon]

<P>See there is a problem with that, the reason why they took it away was because of stream of arrows, which was very overpowered for its time. If they tweaked some more with streams mechanics then I would say that it would be possible...but until they we are can only dream of thoses days.</P> <P>Aroumon Swiftshot</P>

[Gnome mercy]

Yeah but like i said in another post, they cant spend all there time making bandaids for us cause then all the other classes will get blown out of proportion

[Jaack Daniels]

<P>Well absolute #1 I would have to say is increase the chance for a bow to drop BIG time. Atleast make the key to our DPS obtainable. Farming tarinax for months can get old.  But then you get into other classes upset that all they ever see is that blasted bazkul. Maybe have them drop in addition to regular loot. It's getting redundant and pointless to keep killing the same mob for something that just won't drop that only one class in the whole game can make use of. A few more kills and they'll have to start transmuting items or bring alts in.</P> <P> </P> <P>There is an old thread in the sticky portion of this forum called issues with rangers. Maybe we should wake this thread up. Another option lay the hammer down on /feedback and /bug each day ya log in.</P><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class=date_text>01-15-2007</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 AM</span>

[Balerius]

<P>I understand the issues some have about the cost/consumption of arrows.  I beleive a dev posted they are looking at that issue.</P> <P>But I think that some have unrealistic expectations on how having Bazkul/Ichorstrand Bow + Sarnak Bow is the solution to ranger dps.  First, I don't agree that bows such as these should be "commonly dropped".  Second, even if you have them, ranger dps still be approximately matched by rogues and other classes who have much more utility in raids.</P> <P>I just don't see a single "magic bullet" solution to these issues.</P> <P>A major continuing problem is the lack of procs/effects on items and buffs that affect ranged attacks.  This problem started in KoS and continues in a major way in EoF.  Item after item has +crit or +dps or +proc on melee attacks....very few have such effects also on ranged attacks.  Fix this disparity, and ranger dps will be significantly enhanced.</P>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jaack Daniels wrote:<BR> <P>Well absolute #1 I would have to say is increase the chance for a bow to drop BIG time. Atleast make the key to our DPS obtainable. Farming tarinax for months can get old.  But then you get into other classes upset that all they ever see is that blasted bazkul. Maybe have them drop in addition to regular loot. It's getting redundant and pointless to keep killing the same mob for something that just won't drop that only one class in the whole game can make use of. A few more kills and they'll have to start transmuting items or bring alts in.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Exactly!</P> <P>This is my absolute biggest gripe with this game.  I'm still using my Grizz because of the bow drop rates.  I'm fed up and about to move on to another game.  Bows are so rare that when one drops, a Ranger's chance at getting it is almost nil.  Every fighter and scout class in the game can use them and there are not very many Ranger friendly guilds out there.  My guild, that I've been a member of for over 2 years, definately isn't.  What are my options?  Leave the guild and all the relationships I've built over the last two years for a guild that is more Ranger friendly?  Not hardley.  I just as well start over with a new game.</P> <P>My level of frustration can  be summed up with this incident...  On a Lyceum raid the Sinew Wrapped Longbow dropped.  I know it's not fabled, but it is a major upgrade to Grizz.  I jumped out of my chair I was so happy.  Well, we /random 200 all non-fabled gear in our raids.  I figure since we use a NGB system, and because I'm the only Ranger in the raid, I'm finally getting a upgrade.  So I roll, then the following classes also roll...</P> <P>Bezerker</P> <P>Paladin (officer)</P> <P>Paladin (guild leader)</P> <P>Guardian (other guild leader)</P> <P>Dirge (officer and raid leader)</P> <P>Brigand (officer)</P> <P>It felt like I got kicked in the balls when I saw all that guild leadership roll against me.  But I don't think the problem is totally the fault of the people who rolled against me.  The current RNG for bow drops in this game encourages this type of thing.  But woot for the Bezerker who now has a shiney new Bow with a 88 DR to pull mobs with.:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Prandtl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gareorn wrote: <P>Exactly!</P> <P>This is my absolute biggest gripe with this game. <STRONG> I'm still using my Grizz</STRONG> because of the bow drop rates.  I'm fed up and about to move on to another game.  Bows are so rare that when one drops, a Ranger's chance at getting it is almost nil. </P> <P><snip></P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Gareorn, if you decide to stay (and I hope you do) I would recommend completing the HQ for the Raincaller bow.  It has a slightly lower damage rating then the Grizz bow, but I think it provides higher DPS.</P> <UL> <LI>It is a 7 second delay, meaning that poisons will proc slightly more then for the grizz</LI> <LI>It has a damage ratio of 3, versus the grizz's 2.33.  What does this mean?  It means that critical hits will hit alot harder then for the grizz.   See this thread for a detailed explanation:</LI></UL> <P> <A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111347</A></P> <P>As for ranger friendlyness in guild, I think mine is.  But to hedge my bet, I have encouraged every bow wielding class to complete the raincaller HQ.  That way they won't be salivating quite so much if a high end bow ever drops!<BR></P>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">Fortunately, we won't experience this in my guild any time soon.  Honestly, we are a bit ranger-heavy but I cana assure all of them that no fighter will <i><b>ever</b></i> have one of these bows before our raiding rangers get them.  But then again, there's not a single fighter in our guild who would even think about rolling on them either untill the rangers get them.  Our problem is just getting the stupid things to drop when we're actually fortunate enough to defeat the encounters.It really stinks that some people are greedy enough for fabled items that they'd take them from someone who could actually benefit from them, and it's surprising that they can't see that not only would you, the individual player benefit but so would the guild.</font><div></div>