Rangers and arrows - gameplay needs attention

[Harlequin]

<DIV> <DIV>These are all my own suggestions so no cross-posting is involved, so if it is locked I would respectfully ask that the moderator please give a DETAILED description of why it is the case.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One of the biggest gripes rangers (most specifically high level ones) have besides some DPS issues is that they cannot keep up with their need for arrows.  High level rangers in groups or raids can go through nearly 2000 arrows in just over an hour of continuous fighting (which is about what you expect in group and raid instances).  The ranger's skill to generate arrows cannot come close to keeping up with this demand (even with the bonus one gets from the ranger AA skill tree), and it is unbelievably costly, when compared to other classes, for rangers to have to purchase some 2000 arrows of the appropriate level from vendors. However, this is just what rangers have to do if they don't want to have to waste several hours of playtime just waiting to use their skill to generate enough arrows to do some adventuring.  at high levels, several posters have mentioned this could mean about 5 pp paid up front to just have enough arrows for a raid.  And, tradeskillers can't even come close to making enough arrows for a ranger.  Quite simply, no class has as much dependence on arrows as rangers do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>There have been many suggestions on how to fix this posted in the forums.  One idea is to not have ranger CAs use up arrows.  Some other ideas involve making the ranger arrows skill summon more arrows or recycle more often.  Finally, you could also have a system where some of the arrows are reclaimable from corpses by the person who shot them.  Not sure if that would be possible to implement.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally to address the problems with crafting arrows, some fixes have been mentioned to woodworking.  You could have wodworkers generate bundles of arrows that when used by a class generate a different number of arrows.  The idea being that a ranger could perhaps reuse more of the arrows due to his or her skill and thus have more arrows to begin with.</DIV></DIV> <P>Message Edited by HarlequinJD on <SPAN class=date_text>12-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:09 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by HarlequinJD on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:11 PM</span>

[Jackula]

As a woodworker I've often wondered why I can't simply make a stack of 99 arrows on a pristine combine versus 25.  The cost difference in T7 ammo is only slighty cheaper if you were to make your own.  Of course you can tailor your damage type better with crafted arrows, but making ammo simply isn't cost effective considering the time involved.As a ranger I've often wondered why I can't summon more arrows at a time.  Now that my ranger is a level 70 crafter there is rarely adventuring downtime, defintely not enough to keep up with my arrow needs.As a guardian I don't look forward to filling my bag with throwing weapons.  Some mobs require ranged only.  The cost for a ranger is easily my guardians cost x 4.As a player I don't even understand the need for physical ammo.  Unlimited ammo, or a "magic replenishing arrow" of various damage types anyone?As a side thought, what if casters need to use a summonable/craftable crystal for every nuke/heal/debuff/charm/etc cast?  Players would be outraged at the added expense.  Why is it good for one class archtype, but not another?From whatever angle I look at this, I don't understand it either.<div></div>

[Narlix]

<DIV>I will be up front with you on this one,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>eq1 rangers had the same issue, till one day in luclin they got an AA called " Endless Quiver". I was basicly  the goal of all rangers to grind up to this aa so they could buy one really nice uber arrow ( I think the nice ones had like 14 dmg on the plus like 5 fire ) the arrow never got used so the rangers never had to buy another arrow in his/her life time, ( unless and more uber arrow came out).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This one skill prevented the eq1 devs from makeing really nice arrows cheap  enough for every one to use, or some REALLY nice arrows to use on a boss since a ranger could just get one of them and never buy another.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The state of arrows for rangers in eq2 is a direct result of endless quiver. you can summon arrows though in limited supply and of blah quality, you do have a CA that "recovers arrows" from a mob think its called rip or something along those lines; does a small dd and gives you an arrow or two. Now one way they have tried to  help out rangers is putting  bows in the game that summon ammo. Yes i know these are all t7 raid bows but honestly the raiding rangers are the guys burning though 3 or 4 plat of arrows a night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also it might just be an idea but lvl up a woodwork and make your own arrows this would cut cost down for arrows alot, and provide extra income though totems and selling t6 monk weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong i understand its expensive, im an assassin i  can run though them pretty quick too, and i can;t summon them, and i have to buy posions ( for group use), and potions ( for group use), so its not just you putting out money in large quanities to raid and group. as for raids maybe ask your guild leaders to have the guild cover arrows , posions and repairs, most decent raid guilds will cover a % of repairs and potions, some will cover all 4.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as to answer the question about "crystals" for nukes ect.... ask a conj about coh and its 2 gold reagent, or an eq1 cleric about peridot. soe has used this idea in other areas and no one really  says much about it.  Now one thing i think the could bring back from eq1 is let conj summon arrows and throwing weapons this might make them a little better on raids and much more popular with rangers ect... =)P</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Narlix on <SPAN class=date_text>12-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:59 PM</SPAN></P><p>Message Edited by Narlix on <span class=date_text>12-19-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:00 PM</span>

[Brigh]

<P>In EQ 1 there is an ability called Endless Quiver.</P> <P>Why is this not supplied to those that play rangers here?</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[LoreLady]

Heres the problem - sony has to please woodworkers, sony has to please rangers.. Woodworkers want to sell arrows for money, rangers dont want to spend every penny on arrows.. While there was a 5 min reduction in our AA's - this by no means is a fix (many other things to buy that actually does something <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)On the rangerboard theres a similar board, and we came up with the conclusion that it takes 5 hours and 30 minutes to forage up 2000 arrows master one, and takes 64 minutes (with a shortbow) of striaght combat to consume 2000 arrows. We also concluded that if you were to fight with the same shortbow without haste in constant fighting in the time it would take to forage 2000 arrrows (5 hours and 30 minutes) - it would cost you very close to 6p (5p,99g).

[TwistedFaith]

The ranger arrow situation is a complete joke and has been since the game came out.For people who dont play a ranger I cannot emphasize enough exaactly how expensive the class is. We still go through arrows at a insane rate, I literally cannot play my ranger sometimes as I refuse to spend the coin on the arrows and will wait until I can summon another few thousand.Whats the solution? I dont know, removing the arrow consumption from our CA's may work.I am also a crafter so I would like to see woodworkers get far more options when it comes to arrows.1. Firstly they need to make more arrows per combine2. Rare arrow recipes need to be brought into the game, maybe using something like a imbue item to make them?3. Quivers need to have effects on them, 20% less arrows on a quiver for example, or different quivers which gave different dmg bonuses etcBasically something needs to be done, as the current situation has been going on way too long. I firmly believe thats one of the reasons you see some rangers saying their dps is good and others complain. To really max you dps to keep up with other T1/T2 classes costs a LOT of money.

[Jackula]

Yes you could save money by making your own ammo but at T7 vendor bought ammo costs just under 7s per single shot.  Crafted ones cost between 5 and 6s in fuel.  It is a very small savings and for the time involved making 25 arrows per combine max I don't think it's worth the time spent by a longshot (pun intended).  You're better off using that time trying to get a master or drop to sell.  If the batch size of ammo was increased enough per combine it would make sense to use crafted.  As it stands, it isn't.Which leaves us in the exact same spot.  Ammo isn't worth crafting unless you're grinding through a tier, and you can't obtain it fast enough by summoning/using the rip skill.It does cost money to adventure/raid.  Food/drink/potions/totems/repairs is what many of us pay for.  For some there is the added cost of poisons.  For the worst off, there is the cost of vast amounts of ammo as well.  On a fairness scale, it simply isn't.<div></div>

[Nulad]

<div><blockquote><hr>Narlix wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <div></div> <div>I will be up front with you on this one,</div><div> </div> <div>Also it might just be an idea but lvl up a woodwork and make your own arrows this would cut cost down for arrows alot, and provide extra income though totems and selling t6 monk weapons.</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>I'll be upfront about this one too, I am a woodworker and there is no way in hell I am going to sit at a woodworking table for a few hours to craft enough arrows for a raid that will ultimately cost me barely less than vendor bought ones. They take far too long to make in any quantity and are far too expensive to waste time on.</div>

[kartikeya]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Narlix wrote:<BR> <DIV>I will be up front with you on this one,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>eq1 rangers had the same issue, till one day in luclin they got an AA called " Endless Quiver". I was basicly  the goal of all rangers to grind up to this aa so they could buy one really nice uber arrow ( I think the nice ones had like 14 dmg on the plus like 5 fire ) the arrow never got used so the rangers never had to buy another arrow in his/her life time, ( unless and more uber arrow came out).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This one skill prevented the eq1 devs from makeing really nice arrows cheap  enough for every one to use, or some REALLY nice arrows to use on a boss since a ranger could just get one of them and never buy another.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The state of arrows for rangers in eq2 is a direct result of endless quiver. you can summon arrows though in limited supply and of blah quality, you do have a CA that "recovers arrows" from a mob think its called rip or something along those lines; does a small dd and gives you an arrow or two. Now one way they have tried to  help out rangers is putting  bows in the game that summon ammo. Yes i know these are all t7 raid bows but honestly the raiding rangers are the guys burning though 3 or 4 plat of arrows a night.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also it might just be an idea but lvl up a woodwork and make your own arrows this would cut cost down for arrows alot, and provide extra income though totems and selling t6 monk weapons.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Don't get me wrong i understand its expensive, im an assassin i  can run though them pretty quick too, and i can;t summon them, and i have to buy posions ( for group use), and potions ( for group use), so its not just you putting out money in large quanities to raid and group. as for raids maybe ask your guild leaders to have the guild cover arrows , posions and repairs, most decent raid guilds will cover a % of repairs and potions, some will cover all 4.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>as to answer the question about "crystals" for nukes ect.... ask a conj about coh and its 2 gold reagent, or an eq1 cleric about peridot. soe has used this idea in other areas and no one really  says much about it.  Now one thing i think the could bring back from eq1 is let conj summon arrows and throwing weapons this might make them a little better on raids and much more popular with rangers ect... =)P</DIV> <P>Message Edited by Narlix on <SPAN class=date_text>12-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>01:59 PM</SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by Narlix on <SPAN class=date_text>12-19-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>02:00 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>A 2 gold regeant doesn't even hold a candle to what rangers end up having to pay. Not even poison comes close (and hey, I buy poison too, I know how much that hurts the bank). Lemme just put it this way:</P> <P>How would you like to pay 6 silver, 91 copper every single time you had a chance at hitting a mob with your melee weapons? Not even on hit, on CHANCE. Have a CA that hits three times? You pay three times. Auto attack? Every single swing of the weapons. Every time you move your arms, you're paying.</P> <P>That's 6 gold, 84 silver, 9 copper for every 99 chances at hitting something. Granted, auto attack for rangers is much slower than for assassins, so let's cut it in half. Let's say you only have to pay 3 gold every 99 hits. And if you don't have the money, or don't want to pay the money, you just can't swing your weapons anymore. Period. Can't use your melee CA's at all until you pay again.</P> <P>Now, to soften the blow a little, SOE gives you an alternative to spending all your money. You can spend time instead. You have the chance to get 30 odd chances to hit every ten minutes. Of course, you could dump 30 plat or so and make it 60 odd chances to hit. You could use up five AA (assuming you've used up the appropriate pre-requisite AA's to get there) and then you can get 60 odd chances to hit every five minutes instead, or 120 chances to hit every ten minutes. But that's five AA points you could be spending in AA's that would help your DPS.</P> <P>Now, in my personal experience, if I do nothing but one raid in a day, I can get by with one quiver of arrows if I'm careful. That's 22 stacks.  That is approximately 1 plat, 50 gold, 48 silver, OR 217.8 minutes, which is roughly 4 hours.</P> <P>So I ask you this. In order to use your weapons, would you enjoy spending 1 and a half plat, or four hours in which you do nothing but hit your summon button again and again and again? Remember, you can't adventure during those 4 hours, because if you do, you're using up your ability to hit faster, far faster, than your ability to get those hits back.</P> <P>Also, remember, this does not include poisons, food and drink, or potions. This is ONLY to use your weapons. Would you like to have to do that for every 2-3 hours of raid/group time? Would you like to tell groups or raids , 'sorry man, I can't go, I have to sit here and summon for the next four hours or spend a whole lot of money'? </P> <P>Again, in summary: 1.5 plat OR 4 hours of doing nothing = 2-3 hours of adventuring/raiding, if that.</P> <P>Lemme see hands who'd like that, volunteers?</P>

[Killerbee3000]

i think if they should increase the amount of arrows per combine to 99 (assuming 2k arrows used in a raid that would make 20 combines to create the arrows needed in a raid) lets say they cut down arrow consumption by 50% in addition to increaseing amount of arrows per combine you would be down to 10 combines per ranger and raid instead of approx 80.<div></div>

[Caliga]

I think there should be a way to make endless quivers.  I don't care if they cost 15pp.  In two weeks it would be paid for in arrows I didn't have to buy.<div></div>

[TheStormrider]

<P>Not that theres a cold chance in hell a developer will ever read this forum.  But heres the ideas of mine that spring to mind.</P> <P>My woodworking skill is in the low 60s.  I stopped playing him when I got bored and the market crashed.  But I say,  give a dual class ranger/woodworker a bonus.</P> <P>Let them make the same quality ammo as the T8 summoned bows,  but make it no drop.  That way,  for a fair price (Make the stacks created on pristine 100) the price == to the vendor purchased regular arrows,  they can compete with that bow.</P> <P>Now heres the arguements.  'My ranger isnt a woodworker'.  To all of you I say consider it an 'epic quest' to raise your woodworker.  Trust me,  it will be easier than getting one of those bows,  and the bows still have the advantage of th eammo is free.</P> <P>That or just make an epic line like 'claymore' quest that the end is an item that summons the tier ammo.  And each new expansion just add a new set of quests.  The catch is these quests need to be mostly soloable/single groupable or it defeats the purpose of it all. (Allowing the un uber-guilded ranger to get the T8 ammo).</P> <P>And just for the record,  I am in a highly competitive raid guild.  We kill _all_ of the 'bow' dropping dragons/mobs except the matron.  (Who has only been killed 1 time on our server) as soon as our timers reset or they pop.  I have never seen a sarnak quality or a summoning bow drop.  </P>

[kidpaul]

To the assassin that posted earlier I just want to point out that rangers uses poisons to dont know what you mean by "group use" dont know if assassins has an ability to pply poison to every group member or something like but we to use them so dont count that out as a assassin only expense im pretty sure you didn't mean it that way and im pretty sure your aware that we use them to.Now back on track.The endless quiver topic it is something alot of rangers before myself included have suggested as a fix to the ranger arrows and everytime it has been meet with a "it will never happen" or "it would be unfair to other classes". but one thing that gets my hope about this AA eventually coming "back" to eq2 is that with EoF wizards and druids got their port ability back something they have suggested before and it was also meet with "it wont happen" well if they got their port ability back now maybe in a few expansions down the road I think that our endless quiver aa will become a valid option to bring back. only problem is what are they gonna do with those arrows that drop in emeralds halls if they bring back endless quiver seing that it would make rangers with an endless quiver and emerald halls procing arrows overpowered.<div></div>

[Hisvet]

<P>I've been finding myself running out of ammo a lot quicker, I'm wondering if others have too.</P> <P>Between our AAs, adornments, haste and dps and mutli attack items and others group new AAs I'm putting out even more arrows then I used to.  I use more arrows in auto attack because I'm faster.  I'm using more in multiattacks because of AAs that give me double attack, I'm losing more with armor that allows everything to recyle faster.  Poisons too.</P> <P>In raids I always use a primary GM poison, a debuff GM poison a third poison like tactics, turgurs or deaggro plus potions for int/str and if necessary warding so minimum 4 poisons/potions up at all times max 5.  In instances I use 2 regulars.  I can guarantee I use as many poisons as an assassin I compare consumption with our assassins in guild.  I've already mentioned my guild has 6 lvl 70 raiding rangers add in assassins the swashbucklers, the brigands my guild cannot afford to cover our poisons or ammo costs.  We're all on our own there.</P> <P>There is nothing more clear to me that we are paying for every ounce of dps.  My dps is improving (not enough to move me out of the tier without the big bows and not enough to top swashies, assassins and some casters but rarely, but its up there for what I can do) and I am finding myself out of poison and arrows.  I keep approx 5800 arrows on me ideally.  The quiver and a rosewood box of ammo about half summoned, half bought.  The last three or four weeks I can't keep it filled, I'm emptying that in 2-3 days now  (even soloing I'm using more now).  Soooo for me at least my arrow problems, my money problems etc are accelerating as I 'improve' myself in the game.</P> <P>I  never played EQ1 and don't really care about the Endless Quiver.  I don't see it happening but I think people have made some great suggestions and I'd love to see them implemented.  I think arrows shouldn't be consumed in CAs, I think the summon arrow abilities should be doubled and time halved.  That still wouldn't make them as good as the rare bows from DT because they aren't T8 ammo but it would quadruple our arrow summoning rate (and I think people should assume a Base of A3 not M1) to be more in line with out arrow usage esp if we don't have them used in CAs.  For those concerned with Woodworkers they need a lot more help then just arrows.  Have them combined with carpenters or give them lines of ammo with fun abilites, useful ones that everyone can use and make it NOT tedious for them to make and NOT hugely expensive.</P> <P>All those ideas people have suggested and if all implemented I think most would be happier even without an endless quiver.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Hisvet on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:41 AM</span>

[Narlix]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> kidpaul wrote:<BR>To the assassin that posted earlier I just want to point out that rangers uses poisons to dont know what you mean by "group use" dont know if assassins has an ability to pply poison to every group member or something like but we to use them so dont count that out as a assassin only expense im pretty sure you didn't mean it that way and im pretty sure your aware that we use them to.<BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>What i ment by group use was my guild covers posions and potions on raids as well as 50% of our repair cost.<BR>

[Tobann]

Since our CA's damage is not dependant on arrow type,it seems most logical to unbundle arrow use from CA's.I believe Rangers are the only class to have CA's using aroows, so this change should not affect other classes signidficantly. IF there are other classes that have arrow use CA's they would also benefit, and I dont think the ranger community would mind.This change would not affect dps at all and so there should be no cries of Nerfing the Rnagers up,our dps would remain exactly the same and out arrow use would drop. The argument that it may affect woodworkers doesnt fly with me. Ive never bought piercing arrows from woodworkers,way to expensive. I dont think there is a woodworker out there that relies on arrow sales to keep the shop open.In fact I may buy more arrows from crafters since I wont be going thru them as fast. It would make it more affordable.Buaf 70 Ranger Befallen<div></div>

[Deaudlus]

What annoys me the most about this entire problem is that it shouldnt be a problem.  Theres is a fix that is SOOOOO easy.  Just greatly reduce the cost of vendor arrows.  It won't unbalance anything and is about as easy to impliment as anything else they could come up to fix the problem.  No one else has to spend money on a consumable to play thier class.  Therefore, if you reduce the cost of vendor arrorws that will bring rangers in line with everyone else.  It unbalances nothing.  Instead of having to spend a fortune on arrows, rangers wont anymore (Just like every other class).  This REALLY shouldnt be that hard.  Maybe I'm over simplifying but just reducing the cost by about 90 percent seems logical.<div></div>

[Zaviur]

Here's an idea lets get rid of arrows all together.  Have every "arrow" shot take a bit of power.  Give Woodworkers another totem or something to make people wouldn't mind buying. 

[Gareorn]

<DIV>We are not the only ones who have CAs that use arrows. But we do have way more than anyone else.  A guildie woodworker is willing to make arrows for me at cost, but I don't have the heart to ask him to spend all his time in a TS instance to supply my habit (approx. 15-20K arrows a week).  Besides, fuel cost is only 1 silver less than buying from the vendor.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At level 55, I was happy because I used only 2k arrows a week.  But face it, the game at lvl 70 is way different than it is at 55.  It's much faster paced.  Whether you raid or not, the game is still much faster.  No one want s to spend 2 or 3 hours in an instance.  Get in, clear it, and move on to another.  I remember when Lab took four hours or more.  Now it's cleared in less than 2 hours and you're just warming up for something bigger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I use my reclaimed arrows everytime it's up and I still spend more than a plat a week on arrows.  And frankly,  it irritates me to no end to hear a 50 somthing Ranger state that they don't have any problems with arrows, that they always parse on top, yada, yada, yada.  Just to have them comeback two months later and say that they <STRONG>now </STRONG>see just how costly it is at higher levels.</DIV>

[Caliga]

<div><blockquote><hr>TheStormrider wrote:<div></div> <p>Not that theres a cold chance in hell a developer will ever read this forum.  But heres the ideas of mine that spring to mind.</p> <p>My woodworking skill is in the low 60s.  I stopped playing him when I got bored and the market crashed.  But I say,  give a dual class ranger/woodworker a bonus.</p> <p>Let them make the same quality ammo as the T8 summoned bows,  but make it no drop.  That way,  for a fair price (Make the stacks created on pristine 100) the price == to the vendor purchased regular arrows,  they can compete with that bow.</p> <p>Now heres the arguements.  'My ranger isnt a woodworker'.  To all of you I say consider it an 'epic quest' to raise your woodworker.  Trust me,  it will be easier than getting one of those bows,  and the bows still have the advantage of th eammo is free.</p> <p>That or just make an epic line like 'claymore' quest that the end is an item that summons the tier ammo.  And each new expansion just add a new set of quests.  The catch is these quests need to be mostly soloable/single groupable or it defeats the purpose of it all. (Allowing the un uber-guilded ranger to get the T8 ammo).</p> <p>And just for the record,  I am in a highly competitive raid guild.  We kill _all_ of the 'bow' dropping dragons/mobs except the matron.  (Who has only been killed 1 time on our server) as soon as our timers reset or they pop.  I have never seen a sarnak quality or a summoning bow drop.  </p><hr></blockquote>Don't want to be mean but this is a terrible idea for two reasons.  Not only is my ranger not a woodworker, she's already a 70 prov, its not like every ranger whose not a woodworker is a level 1 artisan (and if they are no-drop I wouldn't be able to level up an alt as a woodworker either).   But most importantly with the new commission system I could still get the arrows, I'd just have to stand there for hours watching the woodworker work wood.</div>

[Harlequin]

Well, I tried twice to post it in a forum that develeopers ACTUALLY look at, but the some annoying moderators either locked it or pushed it back over here.  Yeah, I'm sorry moderators, but based on other threads I'm seeing in the "developer's corner" forum I don't think it really needed to be moved back over here.  Some of the moderators seem to take their jobs far too seriously.  It's so aggravating, because I see non-stop development ideas being put in that general forum and at least the developers look at it once in a while.  Apparently, the developers have even admitted that the ranger and arrows issue is a known problem and that they are considering what to do about it.  It would be nice to get an update after months of not hearing not a thing about it.  Yeah, I like new content, but it would be nice if they could balance/fix what's in there (this goes for many issues).  And, I have to say that the assassin posting above hasn't experienced anything until he's raided as a T7 ranger - one who doesn't have one of the arrow proc'ing fabled bows.  I run through my full hoard of arrows in a single run through of a heroic instance.  At the very least, the ranger CA master should pull 99 arrows, and adept 3's shouldn't be too far behind.  But I think that would just begin to scratch the surface of the problem.<p>Message Edited by HarlequinJD on <span class=date_text>12-20-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:12 PM</span>

[Prandtl]

Aye, I was somewhat surprised that the mod shifted this to the ranger forum.  Arrow costs affect any class that carries a bow or throwing weapons.  It just hits rangers harder.  Maybe the mods just don't like you!  :smileywink: