Mystified

[Prandtl]

<DIV>I just finished a lab trash run with a decent pick up raid.  I did decent DPS, at #3 behinf another ranger and the main tank, with all his buffs.  </DIV> <DIV>But my DPS was doubled by the other ranger!   I checked the parse and 43% of his damage came from pierce and 24% of mine.  I chatted with him a bit and asked him how he was able to do so well and said "gear and play style"  I checked the parse and we have essentially the same play style</DIV> <DIV>He has the Sarnak warbow and I have Grizz.</DIV> <DIV>All things being equal, he and I did about the same damage, except he has a great weapon and I have..... a weapon.</DIV> <DIV>I keep staring at the parse and just getting more and more annoyed about how rangers have to depend on itemization so much. If a ranger is not in an uber raid guild they will never get a scent of a bow like that, but if they don't have a bow like that they will never get into an uber raid guild!</DIV> <DIV>We are in a catch 22, and it sucks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><rant off></DIV>

[Merkad]

I would not exactly call my guild an uber raid guild, but we manage well enough. That said, Tarinax has only dropped his bow once, and Venekor has never dropped his. So I still use a Grizzfazzle too. I do suppose an uber guild gets one extra shot at a good bow that I don't (matron- corruption), but that is still not the best of chances. Hopefully EoF will fix this, though why it would need fixing at all mystifies me, since it is rather obvious to anyone who would care to think about it.Venekor is pretty easy, if you can get past the annoyance know as the Bloodbeast, Venekor should be no problem.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<div></div>

[TerriBlades]

<P>Okay, I just have to know. Who was this amazing Ranger Prandtl? What did the dps look like? I want details.</P> <P>On another note, its not a surprise to me that a ranger with Sarnak was doing that decent DPS. That bow is insane.</P>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Prandtl wrote:<div></div> <div>I just finished a lab trash run with a decent pick up raid.  I did decent DPS, at #3 behinf another ranger and the main tank, with all his buffs.  </div> <div>But my DPS was doubled by the other ranger!   I checked the parse and 43% of his damage came from pierce and 24% of mine.  I chatted with him a bit and asked him how he was able to do so well and said "gear and play style"  I checked the parse and we have essentially the same play style</div> <div>He has the Sarnak warbow and I have Grizz.</div> <div>All things being equal, he and I did about the same damage, except he has a great weapon and I have..... a weapon.</div> <div>I keep staring at the parse and just getting more and more annoyed about how rangers have to depend on itemization so much. If a ranger is not in an uber raid guild they will never get a scent of a bow like that, but if they don't have a bow like that they will never get into an uber raid guild!</div> <div>We are in a catch 22, and it sucks.</div> <div> </div> <div><rant off></div><hr></blockquote>Our guild clears everything except Chel right now. We take players based on commitment to our raid schedule and being decent people. Gear, adepts and masters are the easy part - at this stage in T7 so much stuff rots new guildies can be geared up quite fast by guilds clearing all instances. So gear won't be a barrier to many guilds. Maybe a few right at the top of each server - but they require huge time commitments anyway.His bow has a what? 30 point DR adavantage - so yes that will help him out parse you but he shouldn't double your DPS just with that. There must be other differences - maxed stats, AA lines, maybe he was close to fully mastered? I don't know your group but the buffing classes usually end up running out of conc. slots - worth checking that too. He might have also had the T8 ammo - that alone is worth 150 DPS+.Biggest boost to my parses is group setup. The bow and Ammo push it further, but getting haste and DPS bonuses to 100% are about the most important thing for a Ranger imo (and the better the bow, the more essential it becomes for very high parsing). The difference between a parse with +dps at only 30 and then at 100 is huge.Mirdo.</div><p>Message Edited by Mirdo on <span class=date_text>11-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:55 PM</span>

[Prandtl]

<P>Looking at the parse again under the clear light of day and checking eq2 players to check out his equipment, yes he is almost fully mastered has has very very nice gear. </P> <P>It wasn't the total parse I was looking at, just the pierce damage.  Realize that both of us had a DWpierce equiped, so there is undoubtedly some melee hits embedded in the data.   I'll try and paste it in here without losing the gist of it in formating</P> <P>Attacker     Type     Damage     DPS          Average      Median     MinHit     MaxHit     Hits     CritHits     Blocked     Misses     Swings     ToHit<BR>******       pierce     1701976     272.9275     3782.169     3950     161         8547        450      134           6                 36           492     91.46342<BR>Prandtl     pierce     443607      71.18212      864.731       786        17         3450        513      115            9                 52           574     89.37283</P> <P>He was in the MT group and getting more DPS bonuses, which definitely bumped up his autoattack.  Griz has a lower delay and I was at 100% haste.  But to more then 4X my avaerage hit and pierce DPS?  I was wearing my killing instinct and focus hot keys out!</P> <P>Do the DPS buffs make that huge a difference to ranger damage? What else can I do to increase my autoattack damage without having to depend on itemization and group buffs?</P> <P>And Nesse, I think you know the ranger, since he is in your guild  :smileyvery-happy:   We chatted a little bit about tactics and what not afterwords.<BR></P>

[Teksun]

<div></div>He probably had T8 arrows as well. This could easily account for the increase.EDIT: If his DPS bonus was maxed out, that would acoount for it as well<div></div><p>Message Edited by Teksun on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:21 AM</span>

[TerriBlades]

<DIV>I thought I mighta known who it was.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hes definately gifted, but dont let him fool ya. Sarnak and T8 ammo help alot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Message Edited by TerriBlades on <SPAN class=date_text>11-06-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>05:46 AM</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text>Bah, now I wanna go on a raid with you <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by TerriBlades on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:48 AM</span>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>I think he had to stop DPSing so hard because he ended up tanking a few of the mobs.. He's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing slacker.</DIV>

[Mirdo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prandtl wrote:<BR> <P> Do the DPS buffs make that huge a difference to ranger damage? What else can I do to increase my autoattack damage without having to depend on itemization and group buffs?</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes. Get +DPS over + haste if possible in groups.</P> <P>Other things:</P> <P>Max STR - use potions to top it up if the group isn't buffing STR.</P> <P>Get the MoA reward if you can (increases crit chance).</P> <P>Get cloak of the forest Adept 3 minimum (haste).</P> <P>Focus aim M1 or M2 - I took focus aim M2. Time it so that you get an autoattack in as soon as focus finishes casting. For example, pop focus as you finish a melee art then hit ranged auto while focus is casting.</P> <P>Try not to miss any autoattacks by timing your combat arts around them - especially the long cast ones. Wait for an auto to fire before starting the cast.</P> <P>Keep Cover fire and devitalising arrow on mob - improves hit rate. Obviously the higher quality they are the better.</P> <P>Tricky one if you are not in a reglar raid guild but finishing DT access quest gives a nice wrist item with 23% haste. Add that to an M1 Cloak of the forest and you have 66% self haste (one of the reasons I would take +DPS over haste).</P> <P>As to the rest - it's a raid, you are supposed to depend on itemisation and group buffs - the items are the reward, buffs are part of the team/raid experience <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Mirdo.</P>

[Prandtl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>I think he had to stop DPSing so hard because he ended up tanking a few of the mobs.. He's a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing slacker.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yup, I remember that happening a few times.  Luckily his mitigation was up there.  Not mine, though.  I lost a fair bit because I ate a few frontal AE's when the tank didn't get the firedrakes turned in time.   Prandtl      must       increase       heat        resists...</P> <P>Mirdo, some good advice there.  Thanks!</P>

[TerriBlades]

<P>My poor ranger never gets to raid anymore :smileysad:</P> <P>Took a long time to get those two bows, and now I cant use them... </P>

[Lesca]

<P>It does indeed come down to gear and play style...</P> <P>Like just about every other Ranger here, I started out with Grizzfazzles bow in T7 soon as I could use it. I noticed a significant ramp up in DPS once I'd got a T8 ammo bow (God bless Ichorstrand). And another boost once I'd got my grubby mitts on the Sarnak. I'm now parsing far higher numbers than I was at the start. </P> <P>Once you get a good bow though, you find that auto attack plays a far bigger part in your play style than it ever has before. Ideally you'll have at least 66% haste (I think that's the figure anyway) coming from DT access bracelet, self-buffs etc. Plus Honed Reflexes which takes you to cap. So the delay on an 8sec bow is cut down and you'll fire faster. We're definitely lacking on the DPS buff front though, so if you can get in a group with an Inquis, a Coercer or a Bruiser (hell, or all three of em) they should take your DPS mod up which means you'll be hitting not only faster, but harder. Time your CAs to go off inbetween auto attacks. If I have a decent DPS mod, the Sarnak crits for 7 - 8K just on auto attack, and if that's going off every 5 seconds or so, plus CAs and poison and procs... You should notice.</P> <P>Lastly of course, your group setup will help. Inquis can also give you a proc that works off ranged, so they're great. Pallies, SKs and Conjurors have similar procs. Grab them for your group if you can. They'll all help your DPS improve.</P> <P>The hardest part is getting the bows in the first place. It's a right pain that to do these kinds of numbers, we have to hope the RNG is feeling generous and a raid mob drops the bow(s) we want. Venekor and AD aren't exactly hard to kill, but the loot tables mean that Ranger friendly master chests are few and far between...</P>