Why does SOE hate the ranger class so badly ?

[Kair]

We need the rarest bows off of very rare raid bosses/mobs to come even close to the dps of a assassin. SOE swears we are perfect and yet we tell them constantly we are not, of all the scout classes it feels they either hate or want to keep the rangers down while they give everything they can to the other scout classes. <div></div>

[USAFJeeper]

<DIV>Its the man!  The Man is trying to keep us down!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Its probably Karl Roves evil plan.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Look at it this way during DoF they loved Rangers and we were envied and hated by all assassins.  With KoS the Dev's decided to dump our [Removed for Content] and give love to the assassins.  With EoF coming out soon don't be surprised to see the Dev's dump those ugly assassins and warm up to yet another class.  With the upcoming tanking changes I can see those brawler types being the next love child of the Dev's but that's just a guess.</P> <P>Assassins and brigands are the two biggest fotm classes atm and everyone by now should know exactly what is going to happen to them when EoF comes out.  Fear the fotm tag as it is the fortelling of your classes DOOOOOMMMM.</P> <P> </P>

[Lev]

I think the problem lies in that Predators are pure DPS. So whichever is on top is then automaticly the prefered.. I don't mind being a bit under assasins in DPS, however why don't we have more utility skills that benefit other people in the group/raid. We don't need to match or be better than assasins in DPS, but at least give us a usefulness. As it is now, we have nothing whatsoever that gives benefit to anyone but ourself (not counting Pathfinding).. Assasins does at least have the apply poison to the weapon of a groupfriend. Of course we have the standard scout debuffs (but so do every scout class) and some movement debuffs which we mainly just use for dps attacks.. For a grouper or raider the slow % is quite pointless, for the soloer the usefullness is big, so I do not think they should remove it or switch it... However if we are not supposed to match Assasins in melee dps, then give us something that makes us usefull. I don't need to be the best profession, however I do not like the fact that people would choose another player over me.. simply because I am a ranger. Not saying this is a BIG problem, but it exist.. Just to take one example if a group had 1 slot open and wanted some melee dps. As it was 2 players advertized their want to be in a group at the exact same time. 1 was an assasin and the other a ranger, both of equal lvl. Chances are that if the groupleader cares he would go for the assasin, because he gets more bang for the buck, and nothing that compliments the loose of dps. Ok that is not said to occur very often, and might not even occur in that very situation, but the issue is there. Troubs f.ex have lower dps, but buffs that greatly benefit the group/raid so their lack of dps is compansated. Rangers and Assasins are pure DPS we are there simply to do dmg and nothing else. And frankly making both classes the exact DPS is probably impossible and I think it would be really boring.anyways just my 2 cents.. as it is now we are not really that much worse than assasins in DPS, we just have to work our [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to maintain it is all.<div></div>

[Illustrious]

<P>Im not a Ranger</P> <P> </P> <P>But i have noticed that at the top end with a well equiped Ranger (f.ex Sarnak +t8 ammo) will parse pretty much as good as assassins if not better zone wide due to the odd mob that needs to be fought from range. </P> <P> </P> <P>However without a top bow(which yes are very rare especially compared to good DW or 2H for ex) and t8 ammo then i agree there is a pretty big gap between the 2.</P> <P> </P> <P>Maybe in EoF due to AA changes and a few more nice Bows things will be more balanced. </P>

[swiftne]

<DIV>So let me get this straight...... Rangers want to parse like assassins while staying 35 yards away? L   O  Effing L.</DIV> <DIV>Do you want to heal like a druid, buff like a shaman, and take hits like a warrior too? Come on man Rangers are plenty good.</DIV> <DIV>All of your best attacks are ranged. An assassin however has to be close for all of their good stuff. If you were to parse like an Assassin as easily as you are suggesting, Rangers would be way too strong and you would see WAY too many of them on PvP servers.....(as if there arent enough already)</DIV>

[USAFJeeper]

Not gonna bother with the troll too much, but heres a clue, we dont stay 35 meters out.  Now go back the PVP world that is not what we are talkling about here.  Go on, shoo.  Let the adults talk now.<p>Message Edited by USAFJeeper on <span class=date_text>10-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:14 PM</span>

[swiftne]

<DIV>If you don't then maybe that's your problem. I am not a troll I am simply suggesting why you arent quite as big of a hitter as say an assassin. I was also pointing out that rangers are fine and you really dont need anything else. From most of these comments I see PvE server written all over this thread. BUT you have to take into account that the change will effect both PvE and PvP if they were to raise DPS and / or Give the rangers more utility in the form of buffs 'n whatnot.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Kinda funny that replying to a post and saying something that opens your eyes makes me a troll. Sorry though you are sadly wrong, I am an Iksar....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</DIV> <DIV>-= There are no stupid questions, except for the ones not asked=-</DIV> <DIV>-= There are no stupid answers, except for the ones you do not=-</DIV> <DIV>-= want to hear...=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Sannavekk]

<P>Not that they hate us, just think they don't have strenght of the classes in relation to each other as a priority.</P> <P>People love me that I do very good dps, as well as my wicked sense of humor, but if you asked a raid if they'd rather have an assasin or a Ranger I'm sure, putting personalities aside it would be the Assassin, simply because they have that hate ability that helps the MT keep aggro on the mobs.</P> <P>So I can live with the inequity a little in the dps numbers. Stuff like that always changes, just wish Rangers had ONE unique ability. A useful one. No one is piutting me in the Main tank group cause I have a hawk. Doesn't seem to do much for the hate as I wish it would. Not to mention I can't use any stealth abilities because everytime the hawk hits the mob it breaks stealth. Trap is buggy as hell. It even works on epics and it's not supposed to. and when i say it works on Epics I have seen it stop the mob, Only 2 people alive in raid I dropped the trap and the epic was snared... briefly. but again it's buggy as it is on heroics where the mob will just run/float right over it and it also sometimes just disappears before you even pulla  mob to it.</P> <P>Don't get me started on the Nec or Conk though who, with a master pet can press his little icon to attack and do as much dps as me in some instances, while I am working away cycling combat arts and autoattacks with my best skills to get my maximum dps.</P> <P>Anyhow, blowing off the steam feels good. But again I can live with it. Just hope that with the new AA's or something we get an ability a raid might like other than our dps.</P> <P> </P>

[Gerdos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sannavekk wrote:<BR> <P>Anyhow, blowing off the steam feels good. But again I can live with it. Just hope that with the new AA's or something we get an ability a raid might like other than our dps.</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Re: new AA's ...................   Sadly no.              /sigh     /shrug</P> <P> </P>

[VladisSar]

<P>They always did hated rangers</P> <P>I remeber when back in EQ1, when OoW and Epics 2.0 were released and EVERYONE expected that ranger will get a BOW for an Epic after getign over 300 Archery AAs in last 4 expansions, and sony hands out a SWORD with a words: "we never planned for rangers to be a dedicated bow combatant" - this is where ranger community droped dead from a heart attack and rest of us died laughing.</P> <P> </P> <P>the current problem with eq2 Ranger is that we NEED to have our HOs tied to our archery skills, not to our melee skills. What kind of archers we are if do not get HOs in our PRIMARY way of combat, while everyone else does?</P> <P>Imagine a Wizard who has no HOs which uses nukes.....</P><p>Message Edited by VladisSar on <span class=date_text>10-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:28 PM</span>

[BedlamX]

<div><blockquote><hr>swiftness wrote:<div><font color="#ffffff">If you don't then maybe that's your problem.</font> I am not a troll I am simply suggesting why you arent quite as big of a hitter as say an assassin. <font color="#ffff00">I was also</font> <font color="#ffff00">pointing out that rangers are fine and you really dont need anything else</font>. From most of these comments I see PvE server written all over this thread. BUT you have to take into account that the change will effect both PvE and PvP if they were to raise DPS and / or Give the rangers more utility in the form of buffs 'n whatnot.</div> <div> </div> <div>Kinda funny that replying to a post and saying something that opens your eyes makes me a troll. Sorry though you are sadly wrong, I am an Iksar....</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div> <div>-= There are no stupid questions, except for the ones not asked=-</div> <div>-= There are no stupid answers, except for the ones you do not=-</div> <div>-= want to hear...=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Since you dont play a ranger I fail to see how you think rangers are fine and dont need anything else.. This statement alone gives you your troll stigma.  Your post only opened my eyes to the fact that you have no Idea what the hell you are talking about.  Go back to PVP.  BTW I am guessing your a brigand or assassin. </div>

[BedlamX]

<div><blockquote><hr>swiftness wrote:<div>So let me get this straight...... <font color="#ffffff">Rangers want to parse like assassins while staying 35 yards away? L   O  Effing L.</font></div> <div><font color="#ffffff">Do you want to heal like a druid, buff like a shaman, and take hits like a warrior too?</font> Come on man Rangers are plenty good.</div> <div>All of your best attacks are ranged. <font color="#ffff00">An assassin however has to be close for all of their good stuff</font>. If you were to parse like an Assassin as easily as you are suggesting, Rangers would be way too strong and you would see WAY too many of them on PvP servers.....(as if there arent enough already)</div><hr>Whats the difference close or far away?  Either way the tank is taunting the mob which has its back turned to you where's the danger in you being close. This is a poor argument on your part to justify an assassins higher DPS. L  O   effing L.  Tell ya what when you spend a plat or 2 on arrows per week then you can come and tell me rangers are plenty good. </blockquote></div>

[Katsugen]

<DIV>The problem in my eyes is soe has got rangers all sorts of cracked out. They make ranger items with useless stats, thanks soe but 600 agi doesnt help my dps. It seems to me that just about every scout fabled item has agi on it, even the ranger only stuff. If agi is useless to me in a raid, why on gods green earth would I want raid equipment with agi instead of something useful like int? </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They have all these classes that give group proc buffs half of which only work on melee attack. I see many items that buff haste, where are the dps ones? If you actually were to setup a raid group around a ranger I'm sure they would top everytime, but guess what no one in thier right mind would do that.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>ohh and for the guy that says we can range so we shouldn't do as much as assassins...thats the dumbest thing I've heard in a long time. Any decent ranger on these forums can tell you how important our melee is to our dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Katsugen</DIV>

[Lev]

Swiftness you are out of line.. first off all classes are rebalanced for PvP.. which means that ranger DPS is probably lower on PvP servers due to the range... and in PvE servers.. the range can be just as much a curse as a good thing. The fact is that a closeup melee is ALOT easier to play than to keep your range (sweetspot) and to be on the constant watchout for adds. And to topp that off, you mention heals and buffs. NOTHING as that was ever mentioned specifically, and in MY earlier post I clearly state that I would not mind to parse even lower than Assasins, if they just gave us some usefulness. <div></div>

[panther55]

<div><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>swiftness wrote:<div><font color="#ffffff">If you don't then maybe that's your problem.</font> I am not a troll I am simply suggesting why you arent quite as big of a hitter as say an assassin. <font color="#ffff00">I was also</font> <font color="#ffff00">pointing out that rangers are fine and you really dont need anything else</font>. From most of these comments I see PvE server written all over this thread. BUT you have to take into account that the change will effect both PvE and PvP if they were to raise DPS and / or Give the rangers more utility in the form of buffs 'n whatnot.</div> <div> </div> <div>Kinda funny that replying to a post and saying something that opens your eyes makes me a troll. Sorry though you are sadly wrong, I am an Iksar....</div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div> -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div> <div>-= There are no stupid questions, except for the ones not asked=-</div> <div>-= There are no stupid answers, except for the ones you do not=-</div> <div>-= want to hear...=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-</div> <div> </div><hr></blockquote>Since you dont play a ranger I fail to see how you think rangers are fine and dont need anything else.. This statement alone gives you your troll stigma.  Your post only opened my eyes to the fact that you have no Idea what the hell you are talking about.  Go back to PVP.  BTW I am guessing your a brigand or assassin. </div><hr></blockquote>It's ok he is probably tired of getting owned by rangers in PVP because he doesn't know how to play his class.</div>

[SpiralDown]

I always find it weird when someone says SOE hates rangers, or any class for that matter.  If they truly hated the class they wouldn't have put the class in the game.  The problem is that we completely rely on a peice of equipement that all 23 other classes can really do without, plus the fact scouts are balanced around dual weilding, using a two hander, as we do, can make a difference when using alot of CAs.  The issues are more complicated then they apear, though them saying "all is well" is crappy.  But we are only really lacking in only one situation... regular raiding before getting one of those fabled bows.  Soloing and grouping, we are where we should be and do have quite a bit of utility.  Pick-up raids and other first steps into raiding we are ok, because they'll probably take anyone to fill the ranks and everyone isnt near their peak so neither do we have to be.  After getting one of the key bows we dps just fine.  Its just one gap that we have to get through.  Its like most healers and bards; loved in raids and groups, but lacking when they solo. Also, about stats and utility...  All scouts NEED agi so we have power and having that agi buff helps in focusing on str and int on armor. Plus in the case of stats we don't have it as bad as crusaders, who need every one of them to some degree, but have it worst than mages, who only need int.  Point is, what stats we need and how we buff our own is part of balancing.  Though I dont know how each class buffs themselves; I would take haste, dps (as temprary as it may be) and procs over a straight str buff.  And, if you want to compare our utility to assassians, well, they only have that one buff on us really, but we have a deaggro buff too, plus confounding arrow and hawk dive.  Superiour in raids, but if our CAs are used wisely in group they're about equal.  Apply poison is just another form of dps and doesnt count for much else.  In the end they get more utility on raids, we get more while soloing. <div></div>

[FluffyDestroyerofWorlds]

<div></div><div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div> <p>Look at it this way during DoF they loved Rangers and we were envied and hated by all assassins.  With KoS the Dev's decided to dump our [Removed for Content] and give love to the assassins.  With EoF coming out soon don't be surprised to see the Dev's dump those ugly assassins and warm up to yet another class.  With the upcoming tanking changes I can see those brawler types being the next love child of the Dev's but that's just a guess.</p> <p>Assassins and brigands are the two biggest fotm classes atm and everyone by now should know exactly what is going to happen to them when EoF comes out.  Fear the fotm tag as it is the fortelling of your classes DOOOOOMMMM.</p> <hr></blockquote>Crychtonn,I don't normally get nit-picky about these sorts of things; however...I grant that you may have been in one of those guilds that blew through DoF, hitting 60 within a month of DoF coming out, but the Doomly Nerfbat of Patheticness hit most of us long before KoS came out and long before we turned 60.  I remember, quite distinctly, being level 54 and being unable to complete a simple Tears Grifter instance to get a few faction coins.  This happened almost exactly a year ago.If anything, the coming of KoS ushered in a gasp-filled moment where the developers seemed to have actually made some effort to repair some of the damage that was done to our class.If a record is to be established regarding the day-of-doom for the ranger class, it was the roll-out of PvP servers.  Despite the assurances that were given that ample design was included in the game code to balance PvE and PvP seperately, it is obvious that the work involved maintaining such seperate balance was too much of a burden.  A classic example is when we lost the ability to fire debilitating arrow while moving--it was removed due to complaints coming from non-ranger PvP classes.I personally no longer care about nerfs being that there are few ranger abilities (hawk dive, trap, ranged CA w/ movement, Stream of Arrows, melee nerfs, point-blank, etc.) that have not been beaten into near-uselessness.  I hope that they leave assassins, brigs and swashies alone and instead focus on actually balancing the non-player game mechanics to fit into what they've deemed to be a "perfectly balanced player system" (If for no other reason, as a member of a casual raiding guild, there's no more room for anyone else in the trash group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )So anyway, slightly on-topic--slightly not.Smoothie Le'Clot - 70 RangerShadows & DustMistmoore</div><p>Message Edited by FluffyDestroyerofWorlds on <span class="date_text">10-31-2006</span> <span class="time_text">08:41 AM</span></p><p><span class="time_text">edited for grammer and verb conjugation butchery...</span></p><p>Message Edited by FluffyDestroyerofWorlds on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:43 AM</span>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swiftness wrote:<BR> <DIV>So let me get this straight...... Rangers want to parse like assassins while staying 35 yards away? L   O  Effing L.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>No.  You couldn't be more wrong.  And, you are showing your ignorance of Ranger abilities and how they are used effectively.  Rangers are not wizzies with a bow.  They are one of the most complex classes in the game who are required to fight both inside and outside melee range to maximize their damage.</P> <P>That being said...  I seriously doubt SOE hates Rangers.<BR></P> <P>Edit: Support your local DAM (Mothers Against Dyslexia) organization.  I should spend a few seconds proof-reading my stuff.</P><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>10-31-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:37 PM</span>

[TerriBlades]

<P>Well I have to speak on this.. Frist off Swiftness, Shut it. I dont know what kind of rangers you play with, but if they are staying at 35m then they suck! No if ands or butts about it. </P> <P>The overall problem with rangers has been said over and over again. It is possible for a ranger to compete with assassins? Yes, but only when you get 2 fabled bows. Thats right, two. Meanwhile, give any assassin two pig stickers and they can easily do 1.5-1.8. Assassin get a DPS modifier, Rangers get haste. There are far more haste mods to be had in game then there are DPS mods (gear wise). So give an assassin 66% DPS, and 23% haste (assuming they have Amulet of Forsworn) and thats going to widen the gap between rangers and assassin even further then say a ranger with 66% Haste (again.. assuming the ranger also has AoF). Overall, its easier and much quicker for assassins to achieve their near max DPS, while rangers on the other hand have to wait on things like access to DT (for t8 ammo), and then a second bow.. either from Matron (not likely unless you are in THE guild on your server) or Sarnak. And I can say this with little doubt. Venekor is extremely stingy when it comes to dropping this bow. </P> <P>That being said. Give rangers those 2 bows, and a + DPS group, and they'll keep up with assassins just fine. SoE doesnt hate rangers, but they do make it very diffucult on us at times.</P>

[swiftne]

<DIV>Alright time to break out the flame hose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys are getting way too worked up over comments ona  freaking forum for one. Troll stigma, I think not! I am putting in my 2 cents and I am getting all of your negative 13 year old comments in return (which is kind of expected anymore). Rangers are NOT the most complex class to play, and you all REALLY need to stop whining! Rangers suck in PvP because if you look at them sideways they evac, if they stay for the fight it can be fun and a toss up with MOST classes. NOW! This being said, of course you spend alot of cash on arrows(you use your bow ALOT), of course you don't have bow H.O's (SoE is very lazy after all),Of course youu don't get anything useful to a raid other than dps! (you are a DPS class with range! you have versatility more than anything else) and of course you will not like anything I say because every kid wants his class to be the best. WoW is constantly going through the same issues with hunters. /cry cry cry cry now go re roll if you do not like what your class does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember this is a GOD DAMNED FORUM!! if you complain, people will comment! If you did not want negative responses to your post then maybe you should have discussed this in game in the ranger channel or somewhere safe from outside opinions.</DIV>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swiftness wrote:<BR> <DIV>Alright time to break out the flame hose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys are getting way too worked up over comments ona  freaking forum for one. Troll stigma, I think not! I am putting in my 2 cents and I am getting all of your negative 13 year old comments in return (which is kind of expected anymore). Rangers are NOT the most complex class to play, and you all REALLY need to stop whining! Rangers suck in PvP because if you look at them sideways they evac, if they stay for the fight it can be fun and a toss up with MOST classes. NOW! This being said, of course you spend alot of cash on arrows(you use your bow ALOT), of course you don't have bow H.O's (SoE is very lazy after all),Of course youu don't get anything useful to a raid other than dps!<FONT color=#ff0000> (you are a DPS class with range!</FONT> you have versatility more than anything else) and of course you will not like anything I say because every kid wants his class to be the best. WoW is constantly going through the same issues with hunters. /cry cry cry cry now go re roll if you do not like what your class does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember this is a GOD DAMNED FORUM!! if you complain, people will comment! If you did not want negative responses to your post then maybe you should have discussed this in game in the ranger channel or somewhere safe from outside opinions.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Again, for the slow, thick skulled morons in the world. While the highlighted statement is true, its only half true. We are supposed to be a DPS class, but... and try and stay with me here swift.... if we going to achieve our max DPS we dont have the luxury of a 35m ranged fight. Nope, in fact... in an effort to keep up with assassins, we have to sit at 5m and make use of EVERY CA we have... Thats ranged and melee for the stupid. Any questions?<BR>

[swiftne]

<DIV>L2P.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slow down your CA use so you can cycle. Any questions? You do not have to burn everything you've got as an opener. CA, Auto attack, CA, Auto attack, you get in there use your little melee CA's but for the most part you specialize in ranged dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI, calling people stupid on a forum where you are complaining about the class YOU chose to play...... 'nuff said.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways I am done posting here I see that people would rather complain than think of helpful ways to solve their problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suck it.</DIV>

[TerriBlades]

<P>I dont recall complaining anywhere in this thread. I was merely pointing out the KEY differences between rangers and assassins, and why rangers have such a hard time keeping up with assassins. It comes down to 2 bows. Thats it. bottom line. End of story. </P> <P>Fact is, I can play. I also love my class, and I'd lay good money on the fact I could out DPS you on any zone wide parse.</P> <P>By the way, I dont recall saying you were stupid Swift, but then again, I can understand why you would think that. You know what they say.... If the shoe fits....</P>

[Velth]

<DIV>13 yr old troll ftw. lol; go back to WoW with the rest of your kind.</DIV>

[Mirdo]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swiftness wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways I am done posting here I see that people would rather complain than think of helpful ways to solve their problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>One more low IQ, trolling, noob that actually thinks he knows something about the game gone from our boards <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Mirdo.</DIV>

[xandez]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>swiftness wrote: <div> </div><div> </div><div>FYI, calling people stupid on a forum where you are complaining about the class YOU chose to play...... 'nuff said.<font color="#ff9900">Sry you got bashed, but your comments really doesnt help that either, does it?</font></div><div> </div><div>Anyways I am done posting here I see that people would rather complain than think of helpful ways to solve their problems.<font color="#ff9900">We have every right to complain about the class we play. Dont you think? And, i think the majority of ppl will continue to do so, until the certain discrepansies are corrected. Also, if you had bothered to actually read through this forum, youd have noticed that there is PLENTY of helpful ways presented how to solver our "problems"</font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900"></font><font color="#ff9900">What have you done to contribute to that problemsolving?</font></div><div> </div><div>Suck it.<font color="#ff9900">Thx, ill try my best</font> <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <hr><font color="#ff9900">++Xan</font></blockquote>

[jarlaxle8]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swiftness wrote:<BR> <DIV>L2P.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Slow down your CA use so you can cycle. Any questions? You do not have to burn everything you've got as an opener. CA, Auto attack, CA, Auto attack, you get in there use your little melee CA's but for the most part you specialize in ranged dps.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>FYI, calling people stupid on a forum where you are complaining about the class YOU chose to play...... 'nuff said.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyways I am done posting here I see that people would rather complain than think of helpful ways to solve their problems.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Suck it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Swiftness, in case you DO come back, listen for a moment:</P> <P>A) You came in here and said what a lot of others - that don't play a Ranger, or play one and have no idea how to be efficient - have said: <FONT color=#339900>you can stay at ranged</FONT>. The reason you got pounced on is that you state something older then my granny and we have heard enough of it from others, and it's still not valid, except at ranged-only fights.</P> <P>B)  A lot of good Rangers have figured some stuff out that can help our dps. On the other hand, there is a reason to complain if we have to get fabled bows and squeeze the best out of what we have, while other classes don't have to do that effort to get the same dps AND offer other stuff in some cases.</P> <P>C) A lot chose this class cause we want to be Rangers. NOT just dps class xy. But that doesn't mean we love all that is or isn't done with the class.</P> <P>D) You came here with no help.</P> <P>E) This is a forum. If you come hopping along and say stuff, but with no clue whatsoever, you gonna draw flames. Put on the fire proof suit before you do that if you can't handle it.</P> <P>F) YOU call others 13 year old WoW players, but go off with comments like 'L2P' or 'Suck it'. THAT sounds pretty much like a WoW kiddy if anything else.</P>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> swiftness wrote:<BR> <DIV>Alright time to break out the flame hose.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>You guys are getting way too worked up over comments ona  freaking forum for one. Troll stigma, I think not! I am putting in my 2 cents and I am getting all of your negative 13 year old comments in return (which is kind of expected anymore). Rangers are NOT the most complex class to play, and you all REALLY need to stop whining! Rangers suck in PvP because if you look at them sideways they evac, if they stay for the fight it can be fun and a toss up with MOST classes. NOW! This being said, of course you spend alot of cash on arrows(you use your bow ALOT), of course you don't have bow H.O's (SoE is very lazy after all),Of course youu don't get anything useful to a raid other than dps! (you are a DPS class with range! you have versatility more than anything else) and of course you will not like anything I say because every kid wants his class to be the best. WoW is constantly going through the same issues with hunters. /cry cry cry cry now go re roll if you do not like what your class does.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Remember this is a GOD DAMNED FORUM!! if you complain, people will comment! If you did not want negative responses to your post then maybe you should have discussed this in game in the ranger channel or somewhere safe from outside opinions.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I gave you the benefit of the doubt.  I figured you were not trolling and that your comments come from a total lack of knowledge, which made you appear as though you were trolling.  Although your ignorance is reinforced by your post above, it really looks like you are trolling now.  Well, you may only be a troll in training, but still.  A troll is a troll.</P> <P>Seriously though, cursing in all caps? /cry cry cry cry?  Misuse of the word "whining", the random use of all caps, and calling people 13 year olds?  You are also a rookie when it comes to flaming.  Pfft.... Find something you're good at and stick with that.</P>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> FluffyDestroyerofWorlds wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR></DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> </BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV>Crychtonn,<BR><BR>I don't normally get nit-picky about these sorts of things; however...<BR><BR>I grant that you may have been in one of those guilds that blew through DoF, hitting 60 within a month of DoF coming out, but the Doomly Nerfbat of Patheticness hit most of us long before KoS came out and long before we turned 60.  I remember, quite distinctly, being level 54 and being unable to complete a simple Tears Grifter instance to get a few faction coins.  This happened almost exactly a year ago.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>Sorry to hear you didn't learn Phantasmic Visions + Adestes = ranger domination for solo play back in DoF like most people did.  FYI I was 50 when DoF came out and it took me less then two days to realize how powerful they'd made my ranger.  I was out solo'ing those ^^^ raptors the first week with ease and that was long before I found out about Phantasmic Visions.  Once I learned of it there was almost nothing I couldn't kill and solo'ing instances became second nature.  For anyone to think Ranger were anything other then Gods among men during DoF shows they just never learned to use the skills they had been given.</FONT><BR><BR>If anything, the coming of KoS ushered in a gasp-filled moment where the developers seemed to have actually made some effort to repair some of the damage that was done to our class.<BR></DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>The introduction of KoS included the infamous "Ranger Proc Nerf" that dropped ranger DPS by what 40%.  How anyone can forget this was added into the beta less then two weeks before the release is beyond me.  To say KoS ushered in an effort to repair the damage done when it's release instituted the biggest single nerf to a class ever is just crazy.</FONT></DIV> <DIV><BR>If a record is to be established regarding the day-of-doom for the ranger class, it was the roll-out of PvP servers.  Despite the assurances that were given that ample design was included in the game code to balance PvE and PvP seperately, it is obvious that the work involved maintaining such seperate balance was too much of a burden.  A classic example is when we lost the ability to fire debilitating arrow while moving--it was removed due to complaints coming from non-ranger PvP classes.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><FONT color=#ff0000>This point I'll agree whole heartly with you.  The introduction of PvP and the constant balancing of Ranger in PvP has done everything to kill the Ranger class on the original PvE servers <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></FONT><BR><BR>I personally no longer care about nerfs being that there are few ranger abilities (hawk dive, trap, ranged CA w/ movement, Stream of Arrows, melee nerfs, point-blank, etc.) that have not been beaten into near-uselessness.  I hope that they leave assassins, brigs and swashies alone and instead focus on actually balancing the non-player game mechanics to fit into what they've deemed to be a "perfectly balanced player system" (If for no other reason, as a member of a casual raiding guild, there's no more room for anyone else in the trash group <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )<BR><BR>So anyway, slightly on-topic--slightly not.<BR><BR>Smoothie Le'Clot - 70 Ranger<BR>Shadows & Dust<BR>Mistmoore<BR><BR>Message Edited by FluffyDestroyerofWorlds on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:41 AM</SPAN></DIV> <P><SPAN class=time_text>edited for grammer and verb conjugation butchery...<BR></SPAN></P> <P>Message Edited by FluffyDestroyerofWorlds on <SPAN class=date_text>10-31-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>08:43 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>swiftness wrote:<BR></P> <DIV> if you complain, people will comment! If you did not want negative responses to your post then maybe you should have discussed this in game in the ranger channel or somewhere safe from outside opinions.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>We don't and have never had a problem with outside opinions from non-ranger classes. What we have always taken offense to are uneducated, half-cocked statements on our abilities or lack thereof and how we are "okay" based on these uneducated statements. From those who give a logical argument that shows they understand our class, we are more than happy to take constructive criticism and opinions. Your statements are not in the least indicative of any sort of knowledge of our class, how we perform on the medium that would be effecting those most in this thread (PvE servers), nor do they follow any sort of real logic.</P> <P>That is why we take umbrage with them. Present us with a reasoned debate and we might consider your opinions more than mere trolling.<BR></P>

[Mirdo]

<P>I learned about the power of Phantasmic visions quite late <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Once I knew though, even with average gear, Rangering became easy mode. Once I got over the shock of the changes and adapted I prefer the greater effore required for a Ranger to excell now. I do think they went over the top with removing the ability to use a number of arts on the run - but we all know that was done for PvP purposes.</P> <P>Mirdo.</P>

[Tarryn]

<DIV>Heh... I never used stun poisons until...oh, about the release of KOS.  I missed all the fun. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jay]

<P>I always think it's cute when some total stranger appears in our forum to tell us how our class works ("cuz my friend's brother's roommate plays a ranger in red-box D&D and he says..."), and then plays those remarks off as "trying to help you solve your problems." </P> <P>That just <EM>kills</EM> me. Like an undergrad literature student walking into a particle accelerator lab at MIT, picking up a paperclip off the floor, and saying "Here, <EM>this</EM> will fix it!" And all the theoretical physicists go "ZOMG he's right!! All along, it's been right under our very noses! Bartleby, duct-tape this to the cyclotron and let's get 'er done!"</P>

[Mronin]

<blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<p>That just <em>kills</em> me. Like an undergrad literature student walking into a particle accelerator lab at MIT, picking up a paperclip off the floor, and saying "Here, <em>this</em> will fix it!" And all the theoretical physicists go "ZOMG he's right!! All along, it's been right under our very noses! Bartleby, duct-tape this to the cyclotron and let's get 'er done!"</p><hr></blockquote>Now Jay you know that kind of thing happens all the time right??? I mean who hasn't walked through a nuclear research facility or a physics lab and thrown out free advice to these so called "experts" and "scientists":p. Though I don't know about the whole get 'er done thing, cuz the thought of someone who would quote larry the cable guy getting any where near a cyclotron is really disturbing.

[Jeris Nefz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mronin wrote:<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <P>That just <EM>kills</EM> me. Like an undergrad literature student walking into a particle accelerator lab at MIT, picking up a paperclip off the floor, and saying "Here, <EM>this</EM> will fix it!" And all the theoretical physicists go "ZOMG he's right!! All along, it's been right under our very noses! Bartleby, duct-tape this to the cyclotron and let's get 'er done!"</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR><BR>Now Jay you know that kind of thing happens all the time right??? I mean who hasn't walked through a nuclear research facility or a physics lab and thrown out free advice to these so called "experts" and "scientists":p. <STRONG>Though I don't know about the whole get 'er done thing, cuz the thought of someone who would quote larry the cable guy getting any where near a cyclotron is really disturbing.<BR></STRONG> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[Removed for Content].... yet I am still disturbed.  =D

[Mronin]

And with that said I think that all of us (myself included) should take a step back and a deep breath. A lot of us remember when we were DPS gods prior to the time of the great LU nerfage. We survived and have thrived past that and will do so now as well. My guild leader said it best last night "I don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] what SOE does to me or how it f**** with my character, I am now and always will be a Ranger first and foremost. They will never drive me away from this class".Edited to add this: Yes this is just a game and as such we shouldn't take it so seriously. However for people like myself, we picked this class because it fit with our personalities and because we enjoy how this class is played in the game. When I first rolled my tadpole of a scout I had no doubt in my mind that my sub class was going to be Ranger. At that time and with the guild I was in there was a certain sense of pride when one became a Ranger because even then certain scout sub classes were more desirable than others. They looked at someone willing to not only chose but stick to and excel within the Ranger sub class as someone with enough ability and drive to make an essential part of the raid force.<p>Message Edited by Mronin on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:42 PM</span>

[Teksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jeris Nefzen wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Mronin wrote: <blockquote> <hr> Jay42 wrote: <p>That just <em>kills</em> me. Like an undergrad literature student walking into a particle accelerator lab at MIT, picking up a paperclip off the floor, and saying "Here, <em>this</em> will fix it!" And all the theoretical physicists go "ZOMG he's right!! All along, it's been right under our very noses! Bartleby, duct-tape this to the cyclotron and let's get 'er done!"</p> <hr> </blockquote>Now Jay you know that kind of thing happens all the time right??? I mean who hasn't walked through a nuclear research facility or a physics lab and thrown out free advice to these so called "experts" and "scientists":p. <strong>Though I don't know about the whole get 'er done thing, cuz the thought of someone who would quote larry the cable guy getting any where near a cyclotron is really disturbing.</strong> <hr> </blockquote>[Removed for Content].... yet I am still disturbed.  =D<hr></blockquote>But I DID sleep at a Holiday Inn last night <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Mronin wrote:<BR>And with that said I think that all of us (myself included) should take a step back and a deep breath. A lot of us remember when we were DPS gods prior to the time of the great LU nerfage. We survived and have thrived past that and will do so now as well. My guild leader said it best last night "I don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] what SOE does to me or how it f**** with my character, I am now and always will be a Ranger first and foremost. They will never drive me away from this class". <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>My god, that sounds so familiar. I've said the same thing many a time over the past 1.5 years. In fact, the "ranger for life" phrase was once my rallying call... I'm sure some of the rangers of olde remember those days. But here I sit, my EQ2 account all but untouched for the past 6 weeks. I guess the terrorists won? LOL!  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR>

[Mronin]

<blockquote><hr>Teksun wrote:<hr></blockquote>But I DID sleep at a Holiday Inn last night <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr>LOL and that does indeed make all the difference in the world, cuz commercials don't lie to us do they <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.

[Mronin]

<blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:</blockquote>My god, that sounds so familiar. I've said the same thing many a time over the past 1.5 years. In fact, the "ranger for life" phrase was once my rallying call... I'm sure some of the rangers of olde remember those days. But here I sit, my EQ2 account all but untouched for the past 6 weeks. I guess the terrorists won? LOL!  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr>Shhhhhhh the terrorists may be patrolling the boards, can't let 'em think they have won./ducks the not so nerfy bat as it swings by my head <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.<p>Message Edited by Mronin on <span class=date_text>11-06-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:39 PM</span>

[TaleraRis]

I used to really miss my EQ Live enchanter. I was a GOOD enchanter. I could lock down 7 or 8 mobs at once and time them to keep them down until we were ready. My groups could chain pull because I could get the mob in camp and keep it under control. It was fun and a challenge and I loved it.But now I love my ranger. I hate that SoE seems to constantly overlook us in terms of bringing classes up where they need to be. But I could never give Gwyn up, no matter what they did to her. I've been poking around CoH to spend time with my boyfriend and what's the character I play there? A blaster with an archery build. Ranger is so natural to me now. My alts sit unplayed and lackluster. So I guess I would agree with your guild leader <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Ranger 4 Life<div></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> TaleraRis wrote: <P>I've been poking around CoH to spend time with my boyfriend and what's the character I play there? A blaster with an archery build. <FONT color=#ffff33>Ranger</FONT> is so <FONT color=#ffff33>natural</FONT> to me now.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Nice pun there, dear <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Anyway yeah... for me, "Ranger for Life" definitely preceded EQ2 and will go beyond EQ2. Kaeros happens to be one of my favorite rangers ever, in any game, but if my interest doesn't perk back up with EoF, I won't stay chained to a game that doesn't entertain me anymore. I'm playing a hunter in WoW, and despite not being one for pet classes, I love that toon. I'm going with a Marksmanship (ranger) build with some points in Beast Mastery to help with soloing. (Gwyn, I solo all the time in WoW and I love it. Can you believe that? LOL)  I gotta say that WoW did a nice job implementing pet use so it doesn't feel like the clunky, bugged hassle that it did in EQ2 and other games.</P> <P>See ya in the forest!</P>

[Mirdo]

I believe that game also made a better attempt at raid progression but that's a whole other topic of discussion not allowed here <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Mirdo.<div></div>

[TaleraRis]

Wait till 60, though. That's the common complaint that I've seen. It's easy to solo to 60 and preferable, but after that you can't go anywhere unless you raid raid raid raid raid. <div></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR>Wait till 60, though. That's the common complaint that I've seen. It's easy to solo to 60 and preferable, but after that you can't go anywhere unless you raid raid raid raid raid.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Yeah, I've heard that a lot, too. But I'll cross that bridge when (and if) I come to it - I'm not going to avoid the entire game just b/c the level cap doesn't offer a lot of soloing or grouping content. So far, I'm having a blast exploring a new world, and I'm in no hurry to hit the cap or start raiding for uber gear - I just don't really care if my character accomplishes that much. I'm doing a good job of not getting sucked in to that whole "must be UBER!" mentality this time around - I got that out of my system with EQ2. WoW is staying very casual and fun so far, and I'm going to keep it that way. If I hit 60 and there's nothing to do, oh well, goodbye WoW account. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  <BR>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>The problem many of my friends ran into was that even if they didn't try hard, they still sped through the levels. They said it's very easy to level to 60 in no time in WoW, but then there is virtually no content for a non-raid playstyle once you're there, no options for gear upgrades except raiding, etc. I'm sure I don't have the full story, but this is just reports from friends who quickly </DIV>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>The problem many of my friends ran into was that even if they didn't try hard, they still sped through the levels. They said it's very easy to level to 60 in no time in WoW, but then there is virtually no content for a non-raid playstyle once you're there, no options for gear upgrades except raiding, etc. I'm sure I don't have the full story, but this is just reports from friends who quickly grew bored and ended up comign back to EQ2 <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class=date_text>11-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:32 AM</span>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <DIV>The problem many of my friends ran into was that even if they didn't try hard, they still sped through the levels. They said it's very easy to level to 60 in no time in WoW, but then there is virtually no content for a non-raid playstyle once you're there, no options for gear upgrades except raiding, etc. I'm sure I don't have the full story, but this is just reports from friends who quickly grew bored and ended up comign back to EQ2 <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <SPAN class=date_text>11-08-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>11:32 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Well, I'm not 'leaving' EQ in terms of cancelling my account. EoF looks fun so I'll be around a while. I D/L'd the WoW trial on a lark, b/c I've been wanting to see that game firsthand for a long time and form my own opinions through direct experience. I'm very impressed with it so far. It's easy for us EQ die-hards to bash and dismiss it as easymode powerleveling for pre-teens, but I've found it to be a lot of fun. I'll keep playing it as long as it keeps being fun, that's just my general principle with any game, including EQ2. Like I said, if it becomes boring at 60, I'll just cancel and move on. I'm past the point where an MMO needs to be a way of life; they're just interactive entertainment, plain and simple. </P>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>There's a trial? *shifty eyes*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <DIV>There's a trial? *shifty eyes*</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>HAHAHAHAHA!!</P> <P>Check your PMs d00d.<BR></P>

[TaleraRis]

*sniff*You've been away so long you forgot I'm a girl <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[xandez]

iih sry didnt acknowledge that fact myself either <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR>*sniff*<BR><BR>You've been away so long you forgot I'm a girl <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Not at all... I just call girls "dude" too. This is 2006, it's all equal-opportunity slang nowadays. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P>

[xandez]

aint that exactly what nowadays women want anyway, to be equal with men? <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Next time i have to change the winter tires to my car, ill be sure to call in the missus <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (heh)++Xan<div></div>