I just don't get it...

[Sannavekk]

<DIV>This has been bugging me a long time. Wonder if anyone else noticed...</DIV> <DIV>I like to parse DPS when I'm on a raid. Keeps me sharp, helps me determine my best way to acheive my potential even if not posting it. (though in instances I have done a million times I see no need) </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I consistently see is A LOT of other rangers in some of the pickup raids getting 400-600 dps on a good day...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ok, I know my toon really well and I think I play him well and for gawds sake I am not claiming I am UBER...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><EM>But , how the hell as a level 70 ranger can you not do better than 400 dps? or 5 or 6? Some of these guys are people with all fabled armor and weapons. Some of them have higher hits on the server than me.</EM></DIV> <DIV><EM></EM> </DIV> <DIV>I mean without a bunch of uber buffs on me and just toggling on the Ranged attack and sitting back and drinking a soda and watching Family Guy on my other monitor I get at least that much. I am seeing Rangers not usuing poison. I am watching some who never use stealth the whole encounter. No surveillance? No Hidden shot? No group aoe? What are you doing? Heloooooo!</DIV> <DIV>If this only happened a few times I'd just say ok and let it go but it happens way too often...</DIV> <DIV>This goes hand in hand with people constantly advertising for non scout dps. It's frustrating as hell because you realize other people are parsing out there and they are thinking "why would I want a Ranger when they do less dps than a lot of these other classes and have less raid utility?"</DIV> <DIV>I know a lot of good Rangers out there but for this large group of "semi afk raiders" I officially put my boot hard against your backside and say. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Try a little for gawds sake! <STRONG>You're representing a proud class with the ability to do great good for the raid.</STRONG> Don't let us down!</DIV> <DIV>I wanna see 1k dps when you got good group buffs. I want to see 1.5k on a good run of crits against an epic... and without getting aggro.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hold my tongue when I am on the raid even thougn sometimes I wanna send these people a tell and say.." hello anyone there? hello?"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am putting out the challenge.</DIV> <DIV><SPAN class=time_text></SPAN> </DIV><p>Message Edited by Sannavekk on <span class=date_text>10-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:43 AM</span>

[Darkzman]

<P>I was doing 600dps on average about 3 months ago, and was worried I would be kicked out of the guild with the help of the fine Rangers here, I now DPS in the 900-1000 range. I have DPS as high as 1600 in Labs on ocasion right up there with the Necro in our guild. But on ave. I'm in the 900-1000. Another Ranger in our guild is better and he hits 1000-1200 range which is my goal but he's 32 years old I'm 52 so it may be a hand eye thing maybe <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</P> <P>We are both geared out and have good bows. The trick to High DPS is to be behind the mob and inthe sweet spot where you can shoot and hit with melee.</P> <P><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sannavekk wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>One thing I consistently see is A LOT of other rangers <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff33>in some of the pickup raids</FONT></STRONG> getting 400-600 dps on a good day...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I think you kinda answered your own question right there. Pickup raids probably have a lot of people slacking. I guess we're a bit more likely to suffer here b/c it's generally harder to do "adequate" DPS as a ranger, but I don't know if I'd worry too much about it giving our whole class a bad rep. </P> <P>And I've never seen anyone asking for non-scout DPS, but if I did, I'd probably just assume they've got enough scouts and need some mage classes in the mix. <BR></P>

[nirav21]

<P>I parsed 400-600 dps on named encounters back when i was lvl 35 in FMG.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Merkad]

Lol, my guild is not assinine on who we have as members (we have 4 guilded Rangers (only two play though) and just recruited an SK), but we do have some criteria. Generally speaking, most Rangers who attempt to join, seem to do really poorly when the raid parses are posted. Considering I do not have t8 ammo, nor a bow better than Grizzfazzle, there is no excuse for me to double or more another Ranger's DPS (same group/buffs). Yet it sometimes happens. Granted, I believe there is a large segment of people who ninja afk/are just not putting in much effort across all classes.I think most Ranger's would be better off playing a class that does not involve so much work to play. Maybe just make a Brigand, and auto-attack +dispatch every so often... (not that good Brigands just do that)It is weird, I rather like playing the Ranger as they are now, it kinda grows on you, and thinking about how static most classes are it just seems boring.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[frisco4]

Parses suck because you can't just put on stream of arrows and eat a twinkie <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[TerriBlades]

I wish I could answer this question for you, but alas I can not. We have one ranger in our guild that posts numbers about like that, and frankly its really sad. Even a poorly geared ranger should be able to hit 800. He dps gets compared to mine all the time, his first excuse was gear, and granted... he isnt well geared out, but really 400-600?!?! I know its not fair to say this cause Im using t8 ammo, but my autoattack alone hits about 500 using a snew wrapped. Only know this cause we did the crab the other night and never used a CA. That being said, they are either AFKing with stream, firing a few CAs and then AFKing, or are just really really bad players.

[Teksun]

My guild was on a raid Saturday. We had three groups plus one. I was the plus one. I parsed 400-600 on the raid, no buffs, nothing. I'm in half fabled gear, my CA's need some work (half master half AD1).<div></div>

[Marcuzs]

<P>Well there are many factors that can contribute to low DPS. Bad group setup, crappy bow, cheap ammo. If you suffer from all 3 then 400 to 600 dps is quite plausible. However, since you said they had a good group, fabled gear (though this doesnt necessarily translate to a fabled bow), sounds like they were just slackers.</P> <P>I think alot of the Rangers that started up during our prime just don't like the fact that our class is now hard to play and don't want to take the time or effort to do big numbers. It takes alot of effort to use both our Ranged and Mellee CAs effectively. I am constantly running all over the place when fighting. Considering we dont stay right up on a mob to fight, it can often be a chore just to find the back of a mob in the crowd of 24 people. Overall I think there are alot of Rangers out there that would be better off switching to another class.</P>

[Davcre]

<P>I've parsed that low before and I'm hardly a horrible player, not uber either but I'm confident that I'm above average.  My gear is Legendary at best, Griz bow, crafted poisons, summoned arrows.  All ranged CAs at least ADP3 a few masters.  I very rarely pull agro (which is something I am very careful about) and I try to DPS as high as possible w/o pulling agro.  The problem most of the time is in the group setup.  We have this 'raid leader' who likes to stick all the rangers in a group by themselves, no group buffs, no haste, etc.  He's one of those 'know it all' types who cannot be told otherwise...in fact, I have no idea why people listen to him...anyways...when I'm in this situation my parses are horrible compaired to the raid.  Simple things like strength buffs and haste make a very big difference for me and I think it's because I don't have the gear to 'self buff' and max out my stats.  So, I don't think the majority of these guys are AFK or not trying (although I know some do) i think it's more of a difference of a hard-core player's gear vs a casual player's ability to max stats.</P> <P>Just some thoughts.</P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davcre wrote:<BR> <P>We have this <FONT color=#ffff33>'raid leader'</FONT> who likes to stick all the rangers in a group by themselves, no group buffs, no haste, etc. </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I have nothing useful to add, but I laughed out loud at 'raid leader' in quotation marks. Pwned.

[Zholain]

<div><blockquote><hr><font size="2">Davcre wrote:</font> <p><font size="2">We have this 'raid leader' who likes to stick all the rangers in a group by themselves, no group buffs, no haste, etc.  He's one of those 'know it all' types who cannot be told otherwise...in fact, I have no idea why people listen to him.</font></p> <hr></blockquote><font size="2">This is not what I would call a raid leader...more like someone who just likes to be in charge of something.I would point him <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=111459#M111459" target=_blank>here</a> and if he isn't willing to at least try a few things, well...use your own judgement.  But what you describe is a waste, to say the least.</font></div>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davcre wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I've parsed that low before and I'm hardly a horrible player</FONT>, not uber either but I'm confident that I'm above average.  My gear is Legendary at best, Griz bow, crafted poisons, summoned arrows.  All ranged CAs at least ADP3 a few masters.  <FONT color=#6633ff>I very rarely pull agro (which is something I am very careful about) and I try to DPS as high as possible w/o pulling agro.</FONT>  The problem most of the time is in the group setup.  We have this 'raid leader' who likes to stick all the rangers in a group by themselves, no group buffs, no haste, etc.  He's one of those 'know it all' types who cannot be told otherwise...in fact, I have no idea why people listen to him...anyways...when I'm in this situation my parses are horrible compaired to the raid.  Simple things like strength buffs and haste make a very big difference for me and I think it's because I don't have the gear to 'self buff' and max out my stats.  So, I don't think the majority of these guys are AFK or not trying (although I know some do) i think it's more of a difference of a hard-core player's gear vs a casual player's ability to max stats.</P> <P>Just some thoughts.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Im sure in certain situational fights a low parse is going to happen, Im sure that at one point, everyone has parsed 4-600, but do you do that all the time? Cause the ones I was talking about always parse that low.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0033ff>You rarely pull agro? And you are careful? I know this sounds clear cut and all, but could you clear up a few things? Like who you are pulling aggro off of?? Is it just mobs with a mem wipe? Cause I have some real concerns about your tank if you can pull aggro off of him. Of course if your "Raid Leader" is also you MT, that prolly explains a bunch.  At any rate, I'd love to be able to peel a mob off our MT... hell even our MA... Just once, but since T7 arrived, I just havent been able to do that. That being said, Im never careful, and its almost always full burn during any epic fight.</FONT></P> <P>Edit: Almost forgot, any raid leader thats putting groups together like that needs to step down.... or maybe overthrown.</P><p>Message Edited by TerriBlades on <span class=date_text>10-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:30 PM</span>

[Marcuzs]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TerriBlades wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Davcre wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>I've parsed that low before and I'm hardly a horrible player</FONT>, not uber either but I'm confident that I'm above average.  My gear is Legendary at best, Griz bow, crafted poisons, summoned arrows.  All ranged CAs at least ADP3 a few masters.  <FONT color=#6633ff>I very rarely pull agro (which is something I am very careful about) and I try to DPS as high as possible w/o pulling agro.</FONT>  The problem most of the time is in the group setup.  We have this 'raid leader' who likes to stick all the rangers in a group by themselves, no group buffs, no haste, etc.  He's one of those 'know it all' types who cannot be told otherwise...in fact, I have no idea why people listen to him...anyways...when I'm in this situation my parses are horrible compaired to the raid.  Simple things like strength buffs and haste make a very big difference for me and I think it's because I don't have the gear to 'self buff' and max out my stats.  So, I don't think the majority of these guys are AFK or not trying (although I know some do) i think it's more of a difference of a hard-core player's gear vs a casual player's ability to max stats.</P> <P>Just some thoughts.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><FONT color=#ff0000>Im sure in certain situational fights a low parse is going to happen, Im sure that at one point, everyone has parsed 4-600, but do you do that all the time? Cause the ones I was talking about always parse that low.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#0033ff>You rarely pull agro? And you are careful? I know this sounds clear cut and all, but could you clear up a few things? Like who you are pulling aggro off of?? Is it just mobs with a mem wipe? Cause I have some real concerns about your tank if you can pull aggro off of him. Of course if your "Raid Leader" is also you MT, that prolly explains a bunch.  At any rate, I'd love to be able to peel a mob off our MT... hell even our MA... Just once, but since T7 arrived, I just havent been able to do that. That being said, Im never careful, and its almost always full burn during any epic fight.</FONT></P> <P>Edit: Almost forgot, any raid leader thats putting groups together like that needs to step down.... or maybe overthrown.</P> <P>Message Edited by TerriBlades on <SPAN class=date_text>10-12-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:30 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have to agree with this. The last 2 nights I topped the zonewide parse for both Labs and Lyceum and never pulled agro once. I full burn most mobs. Some I may count to 5 on but otherside I go as soon as I see others attacking it. My Elude is only Adept 3 and Surveillance is App 4 lol.

[Jayad]

<DIV>Most people don't try hard.  Most people don't care if they are mediocre.  Most people don't put in the time and effort to upgrade everything.  I see more people in fabled gear than I do who've really bothered to get masters for most of their spells, or at least adept3.  Hey, you know, adept1 is pretty good, right?  Heh.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's not just specific to rangers, when I play my warden, most healers are really pretty awful.  You get a lot of healers who've just sort of sleepwalked through grouping, which requires minimal skills and effort.  Then you get to raiding and it's a very different universe.  Those app4/adept1 buffs they have just get you killed.  Can't cure fast or cast healing at the right time?  MT dies.  Raiding the appropriate tier really shows the difference between people who give that 100% effort in the raid and beforehand to get to the top.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I've had a lot of fun with my Ranger on pickup raids parsing #1 by far over and over when there's not another competent DPS type.  (most of whom are in raiding guilds)  Then they're like, "Wow, man, rangers are great".  But I'm not, I've met so many people who are better.  Just depends on what you're comparing yourself to.  Pure dps classes who parse that low really are hurting your raid.  There's only, say, 10 spots for DPS and they are very important. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Everybody should go along with a good top tier raiding guild sometime.  It'll really change your idea of what is good.  I've been on a few and it's eye-popping, if you haven't before.</DIV>

[Ibixat]

<div></div>I think that a lot of parses are affected by apathy...Top 5 from my Wednesday HoS Run (includes a statue wipe on venekor, and a 15 second wipe where somehow during a Bio break the charged presense agrod us from halfway across the zone)(01:17:20) 54452357 | 11735.42 Assassin 1-Decapitate-22536 Me -- 5736791 | 1236.38Assassin 1 -- 4608128 | 993.13Ranger 2 -- 3734762 | 804.91Swash -- 3682449 | 793.63Brigand -- 3227814 | 695.65Shadowy Presense(01:50) 1601582 | 14559.84 Assassin 1-Decapitate-21848 Me -- 167234 | 1520.31Assassin 1 -- 161555 | 1468.68Swash -- 139048 | 1264.07Ranger 2 -- 103410 | 940.09Warlock -- 85949 | 781.35Charged Presense(02:00) 1559265 | 12993.88 Assassin 1-Decapitate-16367 Me -- 189536 | 1579.47Brigand -- 132554 | 1104.62Swash --  114366 | 953.05SK -- 95790 | 798.25Assassin 1 -- 90993 | 758.28What bugs me is that assassin can beat me usually, sometimes I can beat him, usually depends on buffs involved, I had some decent ones this raid. THe problem is his zone parses though are sad, Ranger 2 can keep up with me at about 75% to 80% on most fights, but on the zone he seems to slack some..  I'm not the best out there, I'm not the worst, but I like to think I "Bring It" every fight, or at least try to.<div></div>I just wish I knew how to keep people motivated for the entire raid to do their potential, I guess it is just one of those things.  Not everyone plays the same way and the really great raiding guilds have a full roster of those types of individuals.Maybe I need to clone myself and start a guild with 23 of my clones? (not implying I'm anything super special just at least I know what I do on raids and think I'd enjoy raiding with people who feel the way I do about how to play on one)OH and one of our rangers, does do that 500 dps zonewide thing, I've seen him spike over 1k on occasion and have tried giving pointers, I just don't know waht else to do.  Ranger 2 has a good excuse, he has far fewer masters than me, uses griz and summon/store ammo vs my Sinew with T8 from ichorstrand, plus he doesn't come as close to stat capping on int and str etc etc...  I think when he does he may pass me up on some parses, but if the slack during some fights, push it on others holds true, the zone wides will still be as they are now.<p>Message Edited by Ibixat on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 AM</span>

[schla]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Darkzman wrote:<div></div> <p>I was doing 600dps on average about 3 months ago, and was worried I would be kicked out of the guild with the help of the fine Rangers here, I now DPS in the 900-1000 range. I have DPS as high as 1600 in Labs on ocasion right up there with the Necro in our guild. But on ave. I'm in the 900-1000. Another Ranger in our guild is better and he hits 1000-1200 range which is my goal but he's 32 years old I'm 52 so it may be a hand eye thing maybe <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> .</p> <p>We are both geared out and have good bows. The trick to High DPS is to be behind the mob and inthe sweet spot where you can shoot and hit with melee.</p> <p><img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <hr></blockquote>Jacqz ....Love the name man ....very rangerish <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><p>Message Edited by schlamo on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:49 AM</span>

[Sannavekk]

<P>Some good responses!</P> <P>Hehe I guess there really is no answer to some of these questions other than player apathy. Cause I have seen some Rangers who have the equipment to buff their stats leave me behind and others equipped similarly who did less than a Fury.</P> <P>Funny thing after I posted this I went on another raid with 3 Rangers on it.</P> <P>Yes it was a pickup. heh (I've been doing them as I left guild life temporarily while I brought a druid to level 70)</P> <P>The swashbuckler who knew his toon was surprised at my numbers. Again, I'm not uber, but we both switched off on the parse as high dps, though he did pull it more times than me. Something I attribute partly to the fact he was in the MT group and fury and zerk buffed while I had nothing. The other Rangers were MIA one of them only occasionally made the top part if the parse that was posted.</P> <P>Man this <STRONG>parse</STRONG> is a curse and a blessing eh?</P> <P>Re: aggro management discussed above.</P> <P>I actually think it's very hard to pull aggro off a good tank even if you're bursting 1.5k dps or more. Primal Agilty at AD III (never seen Master I) and good use of Surveillance and occasionally Evade makes aggro management easily doable.</P> <P>Heck, if I know the tank is good I open a raid encounter against a Labs group with an aoe. Start in stealth - just wait the few seconds to make sure he has hate - Hit my dps buff and Master II aoe the mob, launch a couple ranged attacks then hit surveillance to cleanse myself and drop veiled Fire master. Major crits, all the mobs posion on some or all. Life is good and never get aggro. (well unless a healer falls asleep and the the tank dies). Of course with tanks I don't know I gauge them first before starting with such a high dps attack.</P><p>Message Edited by Sannavekk on <span class=date_text>10-13-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:14 PM</span>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>1. Overall Raid DPS in any situation is one modifier of a rangers parses.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>2. Debuffs.. We're on the [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] side of CA damage, on 1.8k zone averages my CAs are about 2/3s of the parse. Mitigation debuffs affect auto attack damage more severly than they do CAs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>3. Learning your Ranger.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By this, I mean getting a feel for your re-cast timers, your casting timers, your auto attack delays, positioning. It's highly important for rangers to hit as many of their auto attacks as possible. Positioning is aslo huge, since one missed auto attack is a loss of around 4k damage for a high end ranger, and being in front of the mob is a high probabilty for a miss. Casting timers and recasts.. Pairing CAs together that overlap, or undercut auto attack queues as little as possible, while being wary of recasts so that you can use the longer end recasts earlier for reuse later in the fight..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The way rangers are played now require a lot of activity, but it's something you get used to. A good Ranger now is the definition of a good hardcore player.. someone who can constantly manage multiple tasks, while still being good at each...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>For me a bad parse is anything under 1500.. Hell, if i'm not above 1800 I feel i'm [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing up, whether it's my fualt or not.</DIV>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>Also, to add another point ([expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] editing).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're pulling aggro as a ranger either your tank sucks, or for some ungodly reason you manage to suck enough to peel aggro. With 39% AD3 static hate reduce, plus the ability to use de-aggro poisons, any Ranger that's pulling aggro off a half decent tank is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing idiot.</DIV>

[Merkad]

Not really related to this subject, and also not meant to be a derail, but is Primal Agility Master 1 really that rare? I see two people mentioning the Adept III, including one who parses as I hope to someday (a grizz and T7 can only go so far /thanks T and V for the shaft so often).I bought my copy back before DoF, for 8pp. IIRC, it was 54 or 55% at that time, it is now 41% (since KoS). If it really is tht rare, it is probably due to the player base migrating to higher levels. Lord knows getting Amazing Shot is hard (I have seen it once for ~35pp. I only paid 34pp for Rain M1).Just semi idle curiosity.Merkades, 70 Ranger.Siege, Nejena.

[Gailstryd]

<P>Primal Agility is one of the 2 t6 masters I ever got and boy am I [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]in glad that was one of hte ones I got.  I got mine out of Clefts of Rujark (yeah I farmed the solo and green con heroic named for masters hey whatdaya want I was taking away from the bots and I gave every single master except primal to my guildies in retrospect I wish I hadn't lol could have been rich =P) or I may have gotten it from a guildie cause I gave him like 2 masters I got from Rujark can't remember.  As for it's rarity, [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] it use to be pretty common on BB, I remember buying one for 2p to give to another ranger in my guild and I saw it going for as low as 2p or so several times.  Haven't seen it in forever now cause no one ever does t6 anymore but I imagine if I ever got another on my random Poets runs it could go for quite a pretty penny hehe.  Between that and ignorant bliss I never really have agro problems but with teh worst tanks or when I mentor sometimes it but /shrug.</P> <P>As for dps I do a consistent 800-1100 now spec'd 4458 str 44488 agi with all my ranged attacks adept3 and my ranger blade adeptIII with everything else being adept 1 (focus adept III, killing instinct master1, cloak of the forest master1).  I still use griz bow and sometimes I'll pop on my Bow of Searing Missiles I seem to parse about the same or better with it's higher crit ratio /shrug.  I'm in mastercrafted reverent legs/chest when I raid with smattering of legendary in all my other spots and Relic arms though I usually where the arms from abomination named in HoF for raids/dps.  I sit at about 410 str 370agi and 180int self buffed and I toss on a str or int potion for raids dependant on what kind of group I get into, which is usually [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ty hehe.  I only really pick up raid anymore so I do the occasional labs or lyceum run through or just trash farming in said zones.  Overall for what I've got I think my 800-1100 is pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good.  I know what you guys mean about some of the peeps who just can't seem to either get it or don't care and don't rise above 600 but on occasion.  The only time i've truely been bothered by what another rangers dps was like was when I was raided with 2 others, both in better gear than me and 1 for sure had lots of masters and really nice gear.  The one that was only a little better geared than me didnt' quite have 50 aa think he said he was around 37 or so and he was doing about 600 dps or 700 per fight.  The thing that really [Removed for Content] me off was that the guy with masters and full aa and uber gear was doing maybe 100 or 200 dps more than me on any given fight.  Maybe it was just me but I felt he should have been strutting bigger numbers imo. </P>

[xMiLoSiSx]

Spec AGI/INT max crits, with poise.. for DPS..

[Tarryn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Also, to add another point ([expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] editing).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If you're pulling aggro as a ranger either your tank sucks, or for some ungodly reason you manage to suck enough to peel aggro. With 39% AD3 static hate reduce, plus the ability to use de-aggro poisons, any Ranger that's pulling aggro off a half decent tank is a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing idiot.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I pull aggro on rare occasions.  I'm usually a bit incredulous when it happens, ("How did I die? I couldn't have pulled aggro!" ) but mostly I'm happy because I must have been doing some <EM>hella</EM> DPS to pull a mob off the excellent tanks I raid with.  /roar</P> <P>Then I look at my buff bar and realize that I had forgotten to put up Primal Agility...again.  :p</P>

[xMiLoSiSx]

I've pushed numbers as high as 2.7k over 40 seconds without pulling aggro.

[Tarryn]

Yeah, try that without your deaggros.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[LoreLady]

Try that with a "regular" bow - having two of the "rarest" items in the game help - but the likelyhood of A: - you being around in that raid and B: - Those two mobs dropping both bows is extreemly low.Wich is still why I still say the classes are imba between assassins/rangers!!If anyone has any retorts better say em quick! - account is only up for another 2 days <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mirdo]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Try that with a "regular" bow - having two of the "rarest" items in the game help - but the likelyhood of A: - you being around in that raid and B: - Those two mobs dropping both bows is extreemly low.Wich is still why I still say the classes are imba between assassins/rangers!!If anyone has any retorts better say em quick! - account is only up for another 2 days <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>Wrong if you are in a raid guild. The likelihood of you being around on that raid depends on your attendance - I have personally witnessed 3 ichorstrands, the Venekor and Bazkul drop for our guild since July. If your attendance isn't high in a raid guld you might as well join another more suited to your personal playstyle? I guess it depends if you are in a raid guild (one focused on raiding) or a guild that raids (one that has a broader range of activities).If your guild can kill Amorphous/Tari you have a decent chance at an ammo bow, increased DPS if it's the tarinax. Getting Venekor to drop at only 1 shot per week is a bit trickier.If you can steal the odd cube mob there's also a chance at a reasonable bow. Last one we dropped, the bow went to a non-Ranger because I already had the Venekor.Mirdo.</div>

[LoreLady]

And assassins need to wait how long to achieve there max dps? You said since july - its now october 3 bows in 4 months..Also, remember there are other guilds out there who have been raiding a long long time and still havent seen the warbow or baz.. Hell I havent seen either of the ones drop in DT out of the times ive cleared it.

[USAFJeeper]

<DIV>Been clearing DT and Venekor for a long time.  To date, as the only ranger to raid regularly...   As in I am at every raid.    WE have seen ZERO from Tarinax and Venekor.  If it drops its mine, but no droppy.   Sure hope they at least add another couple bows in EoF that wont drop,  (Have not even tried to do Matron yet, apathy has struck waiting on release haha)</DIV>

[TerriBlades]

<DIV>Sorry Mirdo, but I have to disagree with you. Its easy to say that you are more likely to see one of the T8 ammo bows, or Sarnak if you have good raid attendance, but that's like saying if you walk around enough, you'll increase your chances of finding $100 bill on the ground. Yeah, sure the possibility is there, and you will in fact increase your chances the more ya do it, but you still aren't guaranteed you'll get what you want. We've been doing HoS and DT for awhile now, and we have only had Ichorstrand drop once, we have yet to see either Sarnak, or Bazkul, though I keep waiting. Which brings us to Loreladys comments. Why are those 3 bows (4 if you include the longbow of curruption) so damned hard to get your hands on? I mean really, if its going to take not 1, but 2 of the 4 bows to up our DPS and level the playing field, then something is outta wack. An assassin is going to close the gap in his potential DPS months before a ranger will even get close. There really should be more of a middle ground for rangers instead of the two giant steps.</DIV>

[nirav21]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TerriBlades wrote:<BR> <DIV>Sorry Mirdo, but I have to disagree with you. Its easy to say that you are more likely to see one of the T8 ammo bows, or Sarnak if you have good raid attendance, but that's like saying if you walk around enough, you'll increase your chances of finding $100 bill on the ground. Yeah, sure the possibility is there, and you will in fact increase your chances the more ya do it, but you still aren't guaranteed you'll get what you want. We've been doing HoS and DT for awhile now, and we have only had Ichorstrand drop once, we have yet to see either Sarnak, or Bazkul, though I keep waiting. Which brings us to Loreladys comments. Why are those 3 bows (4 if you include the longbow of curruption) so damned hard to get your hands on? I mean really, if its going to take not 1, but 2 of the 4 bows to up our DPS and level the playing field, then something is outta wack. An assassin is going to close the gap in his potential DPS months before a ranger will even get close. There really should be more of a middle ground for rangers instead of the two giant steps.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P> </P> <P>You need to look at the situation from the different prespective.</P> <P>How would it be if these bows where easy for every single Ranger to get?</P> <P>How would it be it was easy for all the T7 Rangers to put up competitive parse with the Assasins?</P> <P>Think about it....</P>

[TerriBlades]

<DIV>First off, I dont believe I asked for easy now did I? I have no problem with the fact that the best bows in are harder to get, what I have a problem with, is that  you have 1 or 2 choices while you wait for that super uber bow to drop. You prolly either have wurmdestroyer, or the snew wrapped longbow. Snew wrapped being Legendary. So that leaves what? 1 Fabled bow? 2 if you count the Recurved off the cube spawn? Good luck getting that one. Now take an assassin, or hell any other class for that matter and run them through Lab a few times. They will be much closer to their max potential DPS then any ranger. Care to rehash how many fabled 2 handers there are in game? That a very small group of players can use? There are far more players that can use a bow, then then there are that can wield a 2hder, yet there way more 2hders availble. I think every tank in our guild has just about every two hander out there, yet theres only been 3 fabled bows drop (Ichor once as stated, and wurmdestroyer x2 iirc) on and I believe the Snew wrapped has dropped 2.. maybe 3 times, I dont recall as I stopped counting after I got mine.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Next time, try reading my post all the way through... Specifically in this case, the last line!</DIV>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>nirav21 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> <hr> </blockquote> <p>You need to look at the situation from the different prespective.</p> <p>How would it be if these bows where easy for every single Ranger to get?</p> <p>How would it be it was easy for all the T7 Rangers to put up competitive parse with the Assasins?</p> <p>Think about it....</p><hr></blockquote>Think about this - an assassin doesnt need the rarest items to be high up there? Why should we have to be at the VERY end ofthe game to be high up there? Or how about a necromancer/summoner? Yea they need afew proc items - but they start off doing 1.4-1.5k dps when they START raiding.. We start off around 900 or so..Rouges - only need 1 onehander.. And the good ones are more frequent in mobs than bows that summon - or "longbows" with a 100ish damage rating, and they take the second longest to achieve there max dps (80 DR 1 handers are rare, but they drop more commonly)This is why I said in my leaving post not to ballance classes on itemization.. Assassins dont need the rarest items to do good dps, rangers do.. Down the line both are going to get screwed, and its likely going to be that they are going to itemize assassins and rework rangers.. It would be SOO much easier if they would just fix the cast time problems right now rather than a year down the road.</div>

[nirav21]

<P>Yall are still talking from the same prespective that we have heard 1 million times.</P> <P>Trust me Terri once you get your Sarnack bow drop or LongBow of corruption you gona feel more important and powerfull more in a raid more than anyother class out there.</P> <P>Its the feeling of satisfaction and achivement.</P>

[Merkad]

@ Terri and Lore, I am in complete agreement with you two, as would be most I would think. You two may as well stop responding to nirav21, as it is quite clear that they do not see things from, what I at least would deem, a logical perspective, or perhaps fair would be the better word?If, on the other hand, you enjoy repeating yourself til you are blue, or talking to walls, then feel free <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> My vote says nirav21 is a future Ranger dev in the making, following the proud traditions set forth by EQLive and EQ2 by /screw'ing us.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> nirav21 wrote:<BR> <P>Yall are still talking from the same prespective that we have heard 1 million times.</P> <P>Trust me Terri once you get your Sarnack bow drop or LongBow of corruption you gona feel more important and powerfull more in a raid more than anyother class out there.</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>Its the feeling of satisfaction and achivement.</FONT></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Wrong, finishing the Claymore line was a feeling of achivment, clearing DT for the first time, was an achivement. Getting lucky on the drop, is NOT an achievement. At any rate, Im done with you Nirav21, you just talk to hear yourself talk.</P> <P>And Merkades, I believe you are correct.</P>

[xandez]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>nirav21 wrote:<div></div> <p>You need to look at the situation from the different prespective.</p> <p>How would it be if these bows where easy for every single Ranger to get?</p> <p><font color="#ff9900">It would be wonderful, as wonderful as assassins who are easy to get nice melee weapons...</font>How would it be it was easy for all the T7 Rangers to put up competitive parse with the Assasins?<font color="#ff9900">It would be wonderful, since assasins supposed = rangers in the DPS department. </font></p> <p>Think about it....</p><font color="#ff9900">Well, dont really have to think, its that simple.</font><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff9900">++Xan</font>

[Issara]

quick question.  When in the "sweet spot" where melee CA's and ranged CA's work...  Do ranged auto attacks work still?  Or do you have to use melee auto attacks?<div></div>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">Ranged auto-attacks indeed still work.</font><div></div>

[Gerdos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Issara wrote:<BR>quick question.  When in the "sweet spot" where melee CA's and ranged CA's work...  Do ranged auto attacks work still?  Or do you have to use melee auto attacks?<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>2-5m range is the sweet spot.  Why called sweet spot?  ... because you can use melee or ranged (auto or CA) attacks in this range.  Just be aware, that using a melee or ranged CA will switch auto-attack to match it.</P> <P> </P>