Aragorn was the ranger not Legolas

[Jaqua_Krynn]

<DIV>so why do i see leggolassix or whatever on every server that i play on?</DIV>

[hieronym]

<DIV>who really cares, either name is [Removed for Content] if you ask me. Not much thought has been applied if you call your char them</DIV>

[Jowita]

<P>My theory is that the lamer the name, the younger the person behind it. Not provable, of course, and probably irrelevant to the "game enjoyment factor," but still, if given a choice between grouping with "Legolassix" and "<insert normal-sounding name here>," I'd most likely choose the latter. I know, I know. "Hey Jowi, what's "normal-sounding" to you might sound like crapola to me!" Yeah, right. And all relativists should be drowned in their own irrelevance.</P> <P>Okay, I'll go drink some coffee now. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita </P>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>Legolas is a 3.5 ranger specialized in the bow feats. Aragorn is a two-handed fighting specialized ranger with some Scout levels.</DIV>

[Rinio]

<DIV>Nerds ^_^ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flee</DIV>

[Jowita]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RinionX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nerds ^_^ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flee</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>LOL! I do believe it's true...</P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<P>Jebus, PLEASE don't go down this path again, therein lies madness.</P> <P>I even have some opinions on this but look at me not posting them!</P> <P>Dangit, and now my bagel sammich just fell apart. "BLAST!"</P>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RinionX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nerds ^_^ </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flee</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] straight

[Merkad]

Lol @ Flidias, That was an interesting post to me. I have three primary RL friends, 2 of them play EQ2 one uses the name Blackdusk, a cool and interesting name, the other chooses Drhook (a ogre warden at that) O_o. Both are 30 though, but yeah..one lacks creativity.My third is the one who *always* says "well, what is normal/average et cetera" to every [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing mentioning normal/average et cetera. As if there is not an already an established general notion of exactly what average/normal is.Anyways, yeah, I cringe when I see some of the awful names people choose.Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[xandez]

aww... all elves use bow in LotR very nicely, which they should. Maybe that makes em more rangerish than a 2h swordsman. atleast in the eq2 aspect?++Xan<div></div>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RinionX wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nerds ^_^</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/flee</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] straight<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>will you marry me? we can make little half elf / frog Nerdlings</P> <P>/chuckle ^_^<BR></P>

[Saihung23]

<P>Someone once posted that they had clear cut proof that Gandolf was in fact a ranger.</P> <P> </P> <P>I don't recall what that evidence was...but it must be true...they posted about it...and I believe everything I read.</P> <P>Gandolf=Ranger</P> <P>Everyone else=teh noob</P>

[schla]

Well i defo think Legolas was more ranger than all else....I mean who else skateboards down stairs on a shield?? c'mon now<span>:smileyhappy:</span><div></div>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schlamo wrote:<BR>Well i defo think Legolas was more ranger than all else....I mean who else skateboards down stairs on a shield?? c'mon now<SPAN>:smileyhappy:</SPAN><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>if you recall Aragorn did use a bow in the scene when al lthe orcs and the single troll broke in! the only difference is legolas is like 300 years old and has had extreme trianing in archery so legolace = ranger with AM3 and aragorn = Ranger with 2handed double ATK AAs =o</P> <P> </P> <P> hehehe /flee! god we are nerds. ^_^</P>

[Vindictives]

stop whining. <div></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindictives wrote:<BR>stop whining.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL... what? Someone give this kid a map, somebody wandered into the wrong thread.

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindictives wrote:<BR>stop whining.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>ROFL... what? Someone give this kid a map, somebody wandered into the wrong thread.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>ya dont worry bout whoever this newb is mate, do a search of his threads in 1 of 4 he has posted in he said sarnak warbow is for Tanks.</P> <P>dude longer delay = good in EQ2, I regret not getting the first warbow I saw drop. let a tank that wanted it have it =/<BR></P> <P>P.S Arwen ownz Aragorn and Legolas, she has mad skillz and iniate boobie taunt to top it off with!</P><p>Message Edited by RinionX on <span class=date_text>09-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:59 AM</span>

[Monstage]

<DIV>--Geek mode on---- The way I see it an EQ2 ranger is very similar to the rangers of ithilien led by Faramir. Remember the bit in the Two towers when the haradrim are passing by on the road with the oliphaunts and suddenly are picked off by a volley of arrows from no where, just like us rangers shooting from invis. </DIV> <DIV>The LotR rangers are also able to get down and dirty in melee when they need to, just like us, and they also get the excrement kicked out of them by arrow down green mobs in hand to hand (orcs crossing the river at Osgiliath in the return of the king) JUST LIKE US!!. ---Geek mode off---</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway I still chose a wood elf for my ranger just so I would stand out from the ranger crowd (what??) I mean, I hardly ever see any wood elf rangers, do you?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm off to the commonlands to climb up an elephant and take it down by shooting triple shot into its brain, although I am reliably informed that this kill will still only count as one.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>--Geek mode additional--- The rangers of the north led by Aragorn could also be seen as similar to EQ2 rangers I suppose but there isnt much mention of them in either book or film as far as I know --Geek mode off---</DIV>

[Jay]

While it can be fun to speculate using characters that many are familiar with, we need to remember that Tolkein wasn't writing an RPG. He wrote novels (or "a" novel, depending on the perspective). Yes, the term "ranger" crops up in reference to the Dunedain, and "wizard" in reference to the Istari, but trying to force his characters into specific RPG classes is always going to leave a lot of loose ends. At least this thread hasn't yet devolved into a ridiculous argument about who the 'real' ranger is; here's hoping that isn't where it's going.

[Gareorn]

<P>The real ranger is...</P> <P>Nerd alert!:smileyhappy:</P>

[Saihung23]

<P><IMG src="http://www.horrordvds.com/reviews/misc/pictures/nerds.jpg"></P> <P> </P> <P>Nerds! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Gareorn]

LOL.:smileyvery-happy:

[Vifarc]

A bowman is not always a ranger. It can be just a warrior specialised in archery.Legolas is a wood-elf using a bow, and as wood-elves are swift and nature-bond everybody think he is a ranger.EQ2 has just decided that all bow warriors are rangers, that if you are a warrior you can't specialise in archery.That is wrong: You can be a blade ranger as Aragorn, or a bow warrior as Legolas.<div></div>

[xandez]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>a blade ranger in eq2 is called assassin, which i would'nt associate with Aragorn thou <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div><p>*edit*</p><p>ok, maybe swashies / brigands qualify for that part too.... they're close to Aragorn in spirit too! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><span class="time_text"></span></p><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:40 PM</span>

[Rinio]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Monstage wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Anyway I still chose a wood elf for my ranger just so I would stand out from the ranger crowd (what??) I mean, I hardly ever see any wood elf rangers, do you?</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wood elfs.. yuck!</P> <P></P> <HR> <P>Jay42 wrote:<BR></P> <BLOCKQUOTE> While it can be fun to speculate using characters that many are familiar with, we need to remember that Tolkein wasn't writing an RPG. He wrote novels (or "a" novel, depending on the perspective). Yes, the term "ranger" crops up in reference to the Dunedain, and "wizard" in reference to the Istari, but trying to force his characters into specific RPG classes is always going to leave a lot of loose ends. At least this thread hasn't yet devolved into a ridiculous argument about who the 'real' ranger is; here's hoping that isn't where it's going.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Dude to be the greatest you have to be a Half elf, also being male doesnt hurt, and it doesnt hurt to be named Rinion either.</P> <P>*Best Kurgen voice* mwahhaah There Can be only one McCloud! ....wait a sec the kurgen loses.... NOOO~!!!</P> <P>they should bring back Best of the Best and make it cross server challenges. I mean they have to compete with WoW right =P *chuckle*</P> <P>allthough they would be [Removed for Content] and exclude bazaar or something =/ Curse me for not knowing what (exc) was when I started on ShadowHaven</P>

[xandez]

<DIV>Nono no!</DIV> <DIV>Wood elf females FTW! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>++Xan</DIV>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xandez wrote:<BR> <DIV>Nono no!</DIV> <DIV>Wood elf females FTW! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>++Xan</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>ya, good point. I'd Tap um to! err what?

[Vindictives]

<div></div><div></div>Ok, you calling me a noob when your asking a noob question at <a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705" target="_blank">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705</a>.FYI- I said stop whining to the person who is getting annoyed by ppl naming their toons legolas, its just a name. Get over it. <a href="../view_profile?user.id=223185" target="_blank"><span></span></a>Dahok - Everfrost - Heroe's Fate.<p>Message Edited by Vindictives on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:13 PM</span>

[xandez]

<P>hehe, so ya know it all then, mr. newbie? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>(he was referring to your forum title, silly... *spanks yer butt*)</P> <P><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>(i hope you understand some humour <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</P> <P>++Xan</P>

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>Vifarc wrote:<BR>EQ2 has just decided that all bow warriors are rangers, that if you are a warrior you can't specialise in archery.<BR>That is wrong: You can be a blade ranger as Aragorn, or a bow warrior as Legolas.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Because the EQ world in general is very very very very heavily based off Dungeons and Dragons. It especially mirrors 3.5 now as the ranger class has two paths: two-hand fighting and archery, whereby they can specialize using certain feats and gain certain bonuses. This sort of duality is very similar to the assassin/ranger dichotomy, without there being a good or evil about it.<BR>

[Saihung23]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindictives wrote:<BR> Ok, you calling me a noob when your asking a noob question at <BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705</A>.<BR><BR>FYI- I said stop whining to the person who is getting annoyed by ppl naming their toons legolas, its just a name. Get over it.<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=223185" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A>Dahok - Everfrost - Heroe's Fate.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Vindictives on <SPAN class=date_text>09-08-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:13 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I am going to give you props here...pardon me all for derailing this thread to do this....but as you can see this poster has obviously just brought something unique into this thread that he deserves to be pointed out.</P> <P>You sir have brought what no one else managed to bring your negativity into here...while sure, someone complained about the naming...it didnt degenerate into a big argument...but you saw the glaring lack of flame worthy posts and brought yours....here...let me quote it below so everyone can see how much you have contributed and so succintly...</P> <P>"Stop whining"</P> <P>WOW!!  Its amazing....two words that say so much...and can be so infuriating to some and come off as just ignorant to others.</P> <P>/applaud</P> <P>Bravo! Wonderful! Your skills are admirable.</P> <P>and yet....you didnt leave the thread after that post...which is what most people would do if they were annoyed by a subject...you kept watching for a reply to your two word masterpiece....</P> <P>You waited and responded to another poster with this gem</P> <P><BR> </P> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vindictives wrote:<BR> Ok, you calling me a noob when your asking a noob question at <BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=37705</A>.<BR><BR>FYI- I said stop whining to the person who is getting annoyed by ppl naming their toons legolas, its just a name. Get over it.<BR><BR><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=223185" target=_blank><SPAN></SPAN></A>Dahok - Everfrost - Heroe's Fate.<BR> <P>Message Edited by Vindictives on <SPAN class=date_text>09-08-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>12:13 PM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Wow....you should get an award....let me go see if I can find one worthy of you.<BR></P>

[xandez]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>TaleraRis wrote:</P> <P>Because the EQ world in general is very very very very heavily based off Dungeons and Dragons. It especially mirrors 3.5 now as the ranger class has two paths: two-hand fighting and archery, whereby they can specialize using certain feats and gain certain bonuses. This sort of duality is very similar to the assassin/ranger dichotomy, without there being a good or evil about it.<BR><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>In DDO the rangers gained inherent two weapon fighting feats and bow feats, so even they kinda utilized the 3.5 rules, the ranger class was more or less like the ranger here in eq2</P> <P>However, the 2 handed fighting option was available too. Its silly that its not available here <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (in any form that is, i'd be happy if we were restricted to use 2h swords for example etc...)</P> <P>Hmm or did you mean two weapon fighting (dual wielding) by two-hand fighting? </P> <P>++Xan<BR></P>

[TaleraRis]

Yeah, dual-wield. I meant two-weapon fighting-focused feats. <div></div>

[xandez]

<P>Heh yes, i kinda realized that when i was about to press submit <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>++Xan</P>

[skytzophren]

<P>Gnomes pwn all!</P> <P> </P>

[TimidMou]

<P>One thing that allowing all races to play all classes with barely any difference is that race becomes cosmetic, and its one of the trade offs this game has made. In LotR world, you'd expect any elf to be able to use a bow because thats their culture and similarly any dwarf to be good at using an axe etc. In some worlds like erm TSR you might write a whole story about an exception to the rules like a certain dark elf who decided he'd go his own way and be different...</P> <P>EQ2 you see essentially an even split among the class types amongst races and there is no story to be told, you see an ogre wizard, that guy like the graphic for an ogre and likes casting spells, end of story.</P>

[Teksun]

That's one of the things I miss from EQ. Only certain races could be certain classes.... oh well...<div></div>

[Rinio]

<P>Play Vanguard with me! welcome back to class/race combos that make sense! /FLEE!</P> <P> </P> <P>Arwen still pwnz Legolas in the face, with a sodering Iron no less</P><p>Message Edited by RinionX on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:25 AM</span>

[xandez]

<P>hmm pwns to the face... lol <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>++Xan</P><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>09-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:31 PM</span>

[Jaqua_Krynn]

<DIV>Wow I posted this what? a week ago? and people are still arguing over the topic.. It was designed to be a joke.. sorry if the humor fell on deaf ears.. Nice to be flamed tho it was great! Now I will go get out my frosted flakes wear my starwars underoos and pop in the extended version of return of the king!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>:smileyvery-happy:</DIV>

[TaleraRis]

<div><blockquote><hr>RinionX wrote:<div></div> <div></div> <p>Play Vanguard with me! welcome back to class/race combos that make sense! /FLEE!</p> <p>Arwen still pwnz Legolas in the face, with a sodering Iron no less</p><p>Message Edited by RinionX on <span class="date_text">09-11-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:25 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>The puffed up version in the movies? Arwen was like two lines in the novels. Eowyn got more airtime. Now there's a tough chick, not the Aragorn groupie they turned her into, ugh.</div>

[xandez]

Yep, there was some parts in the movie i didnt like so much. Like how they made Eowyn look.But, good movies thou, in general! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TaleraRis wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RinionX wrote:<BR> <P>Play Vanguard with me! welcome back to class/race combos that make sense! /FLEE!</P> <P> </P> <P>Arwen still pwnz Legolas in the face, with a sodering Iron no less</P> <P>Message Edited by RinionX on <SPAN class=date_text>09-11-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>09:25 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>The puffed up version in the movies? Arwen was like two lines in the novels. Eowyn got more airtime. Now there's a tough chick, not the Aragorn groupie they turned her into, ugh.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I know i read the book she also was not in the first book while she was in the movie, not my point! she still ownz them =P

[Teksun]

The movies were great. You just have to go in forgetting everything you know about the books <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Does anyone recognize these names?Arrowroot son of Arrowshirt (also known as Stomper the Stranger)FritoMoxiePepsiGoodgulfSpamBromosilLegola mGimlet <div></div>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR>The movies were great. You just have to go in forgetting everything you know about the books <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Does anyone recognize these names?<BR><BR>Arrowroot son of Arrowshirt (also known as Stomper the Stranger)<BR>Frito<BR>Moxie<BR>Pepsi<BR>Goodgulf<BR>Spam<BR>Bromosil<BR>Legolam<BR>Gimlet <BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>they all look like charicter names from lotr ith extra letters and rearanged if thats what you mean. if not then no idea

[TaleraRis]

Teehee, Bored of the Rings

[Rinio]

<P>bored of the rings? ok lets derail and change subjects...uh.. umm *draws a blank*</P> <P>so uh...just how long is a frogloks tounge? /wink</P>

[TaleraRis]

It's a book parodying Lord of the Rings.

[Prandtl]

<P>Pity stayed his hand as he starred down at the groveling figure at his feet</P> <P>"Pity I ran out of bullets" thought [Removed for Content] Baggins </P>

[Skean]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Prandtl wrote:<BR> <P>Pity stayed his hand as he starred down at the groveling figure at his feet</P> <P>"Pity I ran out of bullets" thought [Removed for Content] Baggins </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The last name's Bu--er, not Baggins, in <U>Bored of the Rings</U>.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>(trying to avoid unwarranted invocation of the badword filter here)</P> <P> </P>

[Teksun]

Derail an Aragorn/Legolas thread??? That happened at the first post <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />National Lampoon wrote bored of the rings. GREAT book that you can read in about an hour, LOL.ohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodo hgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodo hgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodohgodo hgodohgodohgodIt's always like that when the rush hit's you...<div></div>

[Carna]

<P>Tolkein was using the word "Ranger" in the same manner as one might use the word "Warrior"... he used it as a description of a bunch of people engaged in a particular vocation. One wouldn't say that one couldn't apply the word "Warrior" to person X simply because Tolkein applied it to a specific person.</P> <P>Tolkein didn't invent the word Ranger, nor is it merely a class in RPGs.</P> <P>There is no doubt that at various points Legolas would have occupied himself as a ranger in the same manner as there is no doubt that at various points Aragorn would have occupied himself as a warrior.... there really is no controversy here.</P>

[Vifarc]

<div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div>Tolkein was using the word "Ranger" in the same manner as one might use the word "Warrior"... he used it as a description of a bunch of people engaged in a particular vocation. One wouldn't say that one couldn't apply the word "Warrior" to person X simply because Tolkein applied it to a specific person.Tolkein didn't invent the word Ranger, nor is it merely a class in RPGs.There is no doubt that at various points Legolas would have occupied himself as a ranger in the same manner as there is no doubt that at various points Aragorn would have occupied himself as a warrior.... there really is no controversy here.</div> <hr></blockquote>You're right. A Ranger can fight, and a Warrior can sometimes track. But not with the same efficiency.Historically the rangers are fighters trained to go through ennemy lines (see the English in Africa 1942). So not all fighters are rangers.</div>

[Jay]

<P>/grinds teeth</P> <P>Why must people split hairs on this? WHY is it such a big deal?? Carnagh is right on the mark, IMO; they're just terms that can have a wide variety of application. </P>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Vifarc wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Carnagh wrote:<BR> <DIV>Tolkein was using the word "Ranger" in the same manner as one might use the word "Warrior"... he used it as a description of a bunch of people engaged in a particular vocation. One wouldn't say that one couldn't apply the word "Warrior" to person X simply because Tolkein applied it to a specific person.Tolkein didn't invent the word Ranger, nor is it merely a class in RPGs.There is no doubt that at various points Legolas would have occupied himself as a ranger in the same manner as there is no doubt that at various points Aragorn would have occupied himself as a warrior.... there really is no controversy here.</DIV> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>You're right. A Ranger can fight, and a Warrior can sometimes track. But not with the same efficiency.<BR>Historically the rangers are fighters trained to go through ennemy lines (see the English in Africa 1942). So not all fighters are rangers.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually historically rangers were charged with monitoring and defending marchland, moorland, woodland and heath. I'm an Englishman and know my own country's history. Tolkein was an Englishman and I would assert was drawing upon the same historical context when he used the term "ranger". It certainly fits the role of those people he ascribed the term to in his fictions.</P> <P>Marches are a big deal through much of European history. It's the borderland between kingdoms, often a long way from more central and civilised homelands. Policing, monitoring and controlling the marches was often difficult but understandably important.... It's in such marches that we find Tolkein framing the rangers in Lord of The Rings. He framed them in this setting because, he didn't invent the term, concept or word. He used the terms because rangers are the people you have warding marches.... they're not a class. It's a role.</P> <P>The term predates the English in Africa in 1942 by quite a large margin and has nothing to do with enemy lines in origin. The closest modern use that parallels it's origin is probably park ranger. The Texas Ranger historically also isn't necessarily a bad example either.</P> <P>In EQ2 (to at least try and relate this topic to the game) I always fealt that the Brigand should have been the evil counterpart to the Ranger as both would have more closely been occupying the same environments (note, more closely, not exactly). If the Ranger is warding the wilds from evildoers, the Brigand actually is the evildoer preying upon people in the wilds... I feel an oportunity was missed here.</P> <P>Specifically in relevance to this thread. The reason why Elves are often so readily identified with Rangers is because certainly by the closing of the Third Age in LoTR the picture is painted whereby a sizable portion of Elves are indeed ranging about (many effectiely saying goodbye to Middle Earth). We know from Tolkein's material that his Elves were engaged in warding and watching large regions for the greater powers. There's a very ready connection with how a lot of Elves are portrayed to live and the activity of a ranger. Certainly much of what Legolas was engaged in was exactly that. The result of this is unless defined in a clear role the modern fantasy gamer or reader is likely to slap "Ranger" on most any Elf bumbling about the woods unless clearly labeled "not Ranger"... That includes Legolas.</P> <P>It has to be said however, that for Aragorn being a ranger wasn't something he happened to be engaged in on occasion it's noted to be his actual vocation.</P> <P>Personally I think it sells the original vision of Tolkeins Elves short. The chap was deeply religious, a peer with CS Lewis and of the vein of Ian McDonald who predated them both as a Christian fantasist; and I have the hunch he was seeking to portay something more angelic, or certainly people in a state of grace "pre-fall".... which of course has nothing to do with Rangers <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Gailstryd]

<P>^^^^^^^^^</P> <P> </P> <P><-----loves when british do that.</P>