Hawk Dive how does it work?

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<DIV>ok i got this spell the other day M1 even and it syphons 24% hate from the entire group to the hawk.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Now my question is how does this exactly work aka where does the hate go when the hawk either dies or hwen the 30 secs have passed. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am asking this cause a tank was having trouble holding agroe on a warlock who went nuke happy so i started using the hawk whenever its up (well on encounters that last longer then 10 secs) now when the hawk would die to an aoe or if he just got dispelled after the 30 secs the mobs seemed to turn on me. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So does all this hate go to the ranger in the way the summoner pet works? aka pet dies summoner gets his agroe?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If it does work like that then its just a fluffy spell and needs to be adressed. If i am wrong about this plz enlighten me so ill know the proper use of this very potential spell for us.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thx</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Styxxey 67 ranger of lucan</DIV>

[Teksun]

I believe we do get all the hate. The trick is to dump as much agro all the time BEFORE the hawk dies. Use all your deagro abilities (evade, stealth and poison) so when the hawk dies, that is about all the agro you have.<div></div>

[Marcuzs]

<DIV>Your not wrong. If the hawk dies before its 30 seconds are up, all the hate it got from the group will go to you. This is why I never use this spell. Not to mention it prevents you from getting into stealth (or has this been fixed? been awhile since I bothered using it).</DIV>

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Marcuzs wrote:<BR> <DIV>Your not wrong. If the hawk dies before its 30 seconds are up, all the hate it got from the group will go to you. This is why I never use this spell. <FONT color=#ff0000>Not to mention it prevents you from getting into stealth (</FONT>or has this been fixed? been awhile since I bothered using it).</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>are you serious? that explains a lot since i got this spell i cant stealth as easily no more nice headsup i thoguht it was breaking cause of aoe never actually checked! christ this has to get fixed</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>The stealth part is not broke.  It's designed that way.  No one can stay stealthed or invised while they have a pet attacking a mob.  And, I'm not having a problem with aggro when the hawk dies anymore.  But I go through Ignorant Bliss poisons like candy during raids.</DIV>

[Nak]

<DIV>The simple easy answer to the question how does it work? like [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] </DIV>

[xandez]

<P>this CA is a joke, it even looks / feels horrible</P> <P>Make it an real attack hawk which makes dmg. Shove the hate siphoning component...</P> <P><BR>++Xan</P> <P> </P>

[Deml]

<P>They are right.  If the hawk lasts the full 30 seconds the hate goes to it and poofs when it poofs.  If the bird dies any time before it's full duration is up then all the hate from the group is transferred to you.</P> <P>It breaks stealth while it's out because it's technically a pet and you can't be invis while your pet is fighting.  We're governed by the same rules on the bird as conj/necro's are in that regard.  You CAN, if you're quick enough, get off backstab combo's when the pet is out, you just can't fire any ranged stealth attacks.  I mainly use it to let me know when a mob's AE has gone off on raids.  I'll send it in on a wave after all the dumbfire pets get roasted.  It's good for soloing though as a pseudo tank that lets you move behind mobs for back attacks without needing stun.</P>

[Marcuzs]

<P>Mages do not have any skills that require them to go invis to use it. So they are able to use all of their available skills while their pet is up. Most scouts require stealth to do some portion of their damage. So to use this hawk means we do less damage, and have a chance to pull agro. Really not worth it.</P>

[Balerius]

<P>I use this spell quite often.  And that includes every epic encounter in the game.  I have <EM><STRONG><U>never once</U></STRONG> </EM>drawn agro because of using it.</P> <P>So just to clarify a few things:</P> <P>The hawk siphons hate from each non-fighter group member in an amount equal to the amount of damage the hawk does.  In the grand scheme of things, particularly on a raid, that isn't much agro being siphoned over the course of a 30 second period since the hawk only hits for a few hundred every time an attack lands.  If the hawk is killed after 29 seconds and you take agro...then I think you'd better examine your MT and how your raid is setup to help the MT maintain agro.</P> <P>The hawk does not prevent you from going into stealth.  Nor does it being out automatically break your stealth.  It breaks your stealth only when it attacks.  Consequently, when the hawk is out I can still use my melee stealth attacks with something over 90% reliability (Longblade-attack combo).  Ranged attacks are out of the question due to the long cast times of surveillance and stealth.</P> <P>It's really all a question of timing.  Out of an abundance of caution, you can cast the hawk in between AEs (most mob AEs have at least a 30 second recast).  Further, you can cast the hawk during periods where you don't expect to be doing very many stealth attacks (even though as I said, I normally do my melee attacks just fine).</P> <P>And if you do pull agro when the hawk dies (unlikely in a good raid), tell your MT and/or raid leader to pull their heads out of their a_s.</P>

[Gerdos]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <P>/agree 100% with Balerius.</P> <P>i'm pretty sure they changed the agro gain to ranger if the hawk died awhile back.  Used to be a problem, but hasn't been for a long time now.</P> <P> </P></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Marcuzs wrote:<BR> <P>Mages do not have any skills that require them to go invis to use it. So they are able to use all of their available skills while their pet is up. Most scouts require stealth to do some portion of their damage. So to use this hawk means we do less damage, and have a chance to pull agro. Really not worth it.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This is true, but don't expect the Devs to change the way pets work just because scouts require stealth for some of their attacks.  Could you imagine the exploiting that would happen if pet classes could attack mobs while invised?  I'm affraid this is just something we'll have to live with, unless they just give us a completely different skill in it's place.  As it stands now, it is a very effective aggro reducer for your group.  If you are gun-shy about the chickenhawk dying and drawing aggro upon yourself, then don't use it on mobs that have AE attacks.</P> <P>Edit:  When the skill first came out, I did draw aggro when the hawk died.  But I no longer do.  Haven't in ages.  Also, I've been able to get veiled off while the hawk is up.  The hawk only attacks every 3 seconds, so you have time to hit longblade and veil.  If you cast veil before the hawk attacks again, it'll go off even though the hawk attacks during the cast timer.  I stumbled across this accidently and I'm sure there is a "fix" in the works.  You do have to be in the sweet spot because you won't have time to back up.</P> <P>From my point of view, DPS is a raid effort.  A skill that is going to benefit the raid as a whole, should be used.  The hawk may be the difference between the wizzy pulling aggro or not pulling aggro.  Nothing hurts worse than the raid wiping with the mob at 1% while your wizzy is face down.</P><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:01 PM</span>

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Balerius wrote:<BR> <P>The hawk siphons hate from each non-fighter group member in an <FONT color=#ffff00>amount equal to the amount of damage the hawk does</FONT>.  In the grand scheme of things, particularly on a raid, that isn't much agro being siphoned over the course of a 30 second period since the hawk only hits for a few hundred every time an attack lands. <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This statement here has me all confused. I was under the impression that the hawk was sipheoning 24% of all non-fighter agro that is generated during the 30sec duration. I assumed the hawks attack was nothing more than a dot and was seperate from the agro sipheon. If it is actually based on the birds damage then I am done using this skill. 3k deagro over 30s is useless.</P> <P>- Katsugen</P>

[Balerius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Katsugen wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Balerius wrote:<BR> <P>The hawk siphons hate from each non-fighter group member in an <FONT color=#ffff00>amount equal to the amount of damage the hawk does</FONT>.  In the grand scheme of things, particularly on a raid, that isn't much agro being siphoned over the course of a 30 second period since the hawk only hits for a few hundred every time an attack lands. <BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>This statement here has me all confused. I was under the impression that the hawk was sipheoning 24% of all non-fighter agro that is generated during the 30sec duration. I assumed the hawks attack was nothing more than a dot and was seperate from the agro sipheon. If it is actually based on the birds damage then I am done using this skill. 3k deagro over 30s is useless.</P> <P>- Katsugen</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hmmm, now that you mention it.  I think you're right.  However, I'm still pretty sure that the hate siphon occurs when the hawk successfully attacks.  In other words, I'm not sure it's a constant hate siphon.  I'll have to look at the spell again once I'm back in game.</P> <P>It's even more noteworthy, then, that I've never drawn agro from the hawk dying to an AE.  It is a swarm pet.  And swarm pets do normally transfer hate to their owners if they die prematurely.  But as I say, I don't see that even if that happens with the hawk why that should cause a mob to agro the ranger if the raid and MT are doing their jobs.</P>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>Everytime the hawk <STRONG>successfully</STRONG> strikes the target, all non-fighters in the group have some of their hate siphoned to the hawk for a few seconds.  The hawk strikes the target every three seconds, so assuming that the hawk <STRONG>successfully</STRONG> strikes the target every three seconds, the hate siphon would be continuous.  Upgrades increase the amount siphoned.  Someone posted the amounts for each level (AD1, AD3 and M1) but I can't remember them.  24% was one of them if my memory serves me.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:06 PM</span>

[Gerdos]

<P>Not 100% sure on this, but my understanding of how Hawk Dive works is this:</P> <P>it siphons 21-24% agro from the non scouts in group for 30sec's, this is a constant siphon.  SOE changed it awhile back to prevent agro  to the ranger by making it memblur, in that the agro it siphons/gains is reset every ## sec's (possibly 6sec's, equal to every 2nd hawk attack).  </P> <P>The 3sec attack cycle of the hawk, isn't related to the agro siphon, but does act as an interrupt for your stealth.  That 3 sec's does buy you enough time to get in some melee stealth attacks.</P>

[Teksun]

I love my hawk. I love the fact that it siphons agro. I didn't even mind the fact that it dumped the agro on me (which has been fixed). I consider this CA one of the few things I DO bring to a raid. My wizards seem to die a lot less when I use it regularly <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Marcuzs]

Sorry if I don't just take your word that this has been fixed. Where did it ever say the agro had been fixed? I read these boards every day and don't recall ever seeing any mention of this.

[AdiX__Styxx__]

<FONT color=#ffff33></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Balerius wrote:<BR> <P>I use this spell quite often.  And that includes every epic encounter in the game.  I have <EM><STRONG><U>never once</U></STRONG> </EM>drawn agro because of using it.</P> <P>So just to clarify a few things:</P> <P><FONT color=#ff0033>The hawk siphons hate from each non-fighter group member in an amount equal to the amount of damage the hawk does</FONT>.  In the grand scheme of things, particularly on a raid, that isn't much agro being siphoned over the course of a 30 second period since the hawk only hits for a few hundred every time an attack lands.  If the hawk is killed after 29 seconds and you take agro...then I think you'd better examine your MT and how your raid is setup to help the MT maintain agro.</P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>The hawk does not prevent you from going into stealth.  Nor does it being out automatically break your stealth.  It breaks your stealth only when it attacks.</FONT>  Consequently, when the hawk is out I can still use my melee stealth attacks with something over 90% reliability (Longblade-attack combo).  <FONT color=#99ff00>Ranged attacks are out of the question due to the long cast times of surveillance and stealth.</FONT></P> <P>It's really all a question of timing.  Out of an abundance of caution, you can cast the hawk in between AEs (most mob AEs have at least a 30 second recast).  <FONT color=#ffff00>Further, you can cast the hawk during periods where you don't expect to be doing very many stealth attacks </FONT>(even though as I said, I normally do my melee attacks just fine).</P> <P>And if you do pull agro when the hawk dies (unlikely in a good raid), tell your MT and/or raid leader to pull their heads out of their a_s.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><FONT color=#ff0000>This was already covered by other posts so i wont go there again!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#6633ff>I tested this a bit and yer 100% correct it takes a lotta skill and timing but its possible to time it in between the hawks attacks you hvae to use yer longblade tho cause the other stealth lines are just too slow!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#00cc33>it is possible to use yer stealth shot but as covered earlier ya gotta be in the sweet spot to longblade and queue yer stealth ranged shot right after or ya wont make and ya gotta start right at the hawks timing for dealing damage!</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>This was the way i saw the hawk b4 this usefull forum im happy that i asked this Question!</FONT></P> <P>Conclusion: This spell most definately has its limitations, but it also posseses a potent way to help yer agroe monsters out and yerself if it doesnt die prematurily! Subsequently it takes a lotta skill to master and understand its possibilities (havent quite mastered it myself!</P> <P>I also play a coercer so crowd control is something thats inside me so when adds come along and i have the hawk CA up i will put it on the add so it siphons some hate to hvae the fighter gain agroe more easily as soon as he sees it!</P> <P>Another way to use it is if yer soloing! YEA if yer soloing Sick the hawk at a mob and start shooting arrows after use yer evade line and yer stalkline (even if the stealth breaks, cause toolil time) to keep the mob on yer pet while yer killing it from an angle!</P> <P>As soon as yer hawk is really low on health or if the timer is almost gone use vines and legshot to stack a serious slow on yer foe and kite it a bit if its still not dead after another few shots! root it stealth while runing away and use yer aoe ranged attack so when root breaks ya can back off while still shooting yer shot off! Or if ya believe ya got enaugh time use yer single target stealth shot!</P> <P>Anyways these are some uses i find out while experimenting with the hawk feel free to post any other options or to improve the way i use it right now any info is always welcome!</P> <P>Oh and thx a lot for all the replies i got on my Q</P> <P>Styxxey 68 Ranger of Ldlere</P>