Should I use tin arrows forever?

[Kelson]

<DIV>As a newbie broke Ranger, I have been crafting tin hunting arrows to save money.  Storebought tin arrows cost 1c each and I can make them for about 1/4 the cost myself.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Have you noticed a significant increase in damage using higher tier arrows over using tin arrows at higher levels?  If so, is this increase noticeable with CAs or just with autoattack?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason I ask is for cost purposes.  Obviously, I don't want to spend more money on arrows if they don't do more damage.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I also ask because I am planning on levelling this character as a Woodworker to keep his costs down for arrows.  However, if the higher tier arrows don't do that much more damage, I can save a lot of time and effort and not level him as a Woodworker after all.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hear we also get a spell to summon arrows later too.  Does this summon enough to keep up with your arrow needs, or will I be needing to supplement with bought or crafted arrows frequently as well?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Finally, do you carry different types of arrows on you for damage resistant mobs?  (slashing, piercing, crushing) or is it not worth bothering?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>-Kelrick</DIV> <DIV>Lucan DLere</DIV><p>Message Edited by Kelson13 on <span class=date_text>09-02-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:12 AM</span>

[BSbon]

higher tier arrows will do more damage on auto attack but not combat arts. at level 20 you should get a summon arrow spell. those arrows are better than the tin arrows. for most of the time you should be able to get by on the summoned arrows unless you do a lot of killing.

[LoreLady]

Your going to be broke forever <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jayad]

In the early levels where you spend less time at ranged (due to less # of combat arts), tin arrows are fine.  You also don't suffer as much of an auto-attack penalty because the tiers are only apart by 1.  Later on, you don't want to use tin arrows because you will lose a lot of damage. 

[Ibixat]

the simple answer to the actaul question asked is "dear lord, no way"...<div></div>

[Kelson]

<P>Thank you everyone for your informative replies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Time to go level as a Woodworker.</P> <P>-Kelrick</P>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Kelson13 wrote:<div></div> <p>Thank you everyone for your informative replies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Time to go level as a Woodworker.</p> <p>-Kelrick</p><hr></blockquote>My advice - dont level your woodworker not unless you can spend your entire day at home to make afew arrows then spend afew hours adventuring.</div>

[TaleraRis]

Your summoning skill will keep you in arrows just fine. The only reason there is really to level a woodworker is for your own crafted imbued bow, but that only needs to be bought once a tier or so and at the lower levels there are a couple good quests that result in decent bows. When you get into higher levels and really only if you intend to raid will you need to worry about non-summoned arrows. As  a straight soloer, so long as I take the time to keep my quiver full and make sure I'm summong constantly, I do fine with just summoned arrows. I tend to get low while in groups, but you can offset that by carrying some extra that won't fit in your quiver in your packs. Summoned arrows aren't no-rent, like summoned items were in EQ1(if you played that) so you can build up a supply quite easily. <div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:Your summoning skill will keep you in arrows just fine. The only reason there is really to level a woodworker is for your own crafted imbued bow, but that only needs to be bought once a tier or so and at the lower levels there are a couple good quests that result in decent bows. When you get into higher levels and really only if you intend to raid will you need to worry about non-summoned arrows. As  a straight soloer, so long as I take the time to keep my quiver full and make sure I'm summong constantly, I do fine with just summoned arrows. I tend to get low while in groups, but you can offset that by carrying some extra that won't fit in your quiver in your packs. Summoned arrows aren't no-rent, like summoned items were in EQ1(if you played that) so you can build up a supply quite easily. <div></div><hr></blockquote>So inotherwords.. Solo = good.. Group = bad Raid = dont go there <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[TaleraRis]

I wouldn't say Group is bad for summoned arrows. I sometimes use more arrows soloing in a night due to kiting than I do in a group in the same amount of time. You just have to keep your supply up in both cases. <div></div>

[wajamacallit]

<DIV>I found that mapping the summon arrows spell to my forward movement key was a great help.   Now I never forget to cast this when its up.  It can cause some problems like bringing you out of stealth when it is cast but on the whole worth the inconvenience.</DIV>

[TaleraRis]

The main reason I didn't do that is because I am an avid explorer and I'm constantly in stealth, plus I am extremely forgetful. I would forget in just the wrong place and go splat. <div></div>

[Kelson]

<P>Thank you everyone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Very helpful information.  My Woodworker is on hold until I get into my 20s and group a bit to see how well I can keep up with my arrow supply.  The amount of time I put into making arrows to fill my quiver was....disturbing (and very boring, heh).</P> <P>Question:  Is it worth it to Master 2 the summon arrows spell line?  I hate to waste the extra damage I could get elsewhere, but if it's the difference between going broke and getting by with summoned arrows, it may be worth it.  I hear the Master 2 version summons quite a bit more than Adept 3, but I don't know the numbers.</P> <P>-Kelrick</P>

[Gerdos]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Kelson13 wrote:<BR> <P>Question:  Is it worth it to Master 2 the summon arrows spell line?  I hate to waste the extra damage I could get elsewhere, but if it's the difference between going broke and getting by with summoned arrows, it may be worth it.  I hear the Master 2 version summons quite a bit more than Adept 3, but I don't know the numbers.</P> <P>-Kelrick</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>from memory, all the summoning arrow CAs, were:</P> <P>Adept1 = 30 arrows, Adept3 = 45, Master1 = 60, Master2 = 65</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Teksun]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Kelson13 wrote:<div></div> <p>Thank you everyone for your informative replies <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p> <p>Time to go level as a Woodworker.</p> <p>-Kelrick</p><hr></blockquote>My advice - dont level your woodworker not unless you can spend your entire day at home to make afew arrows then spend afew hours adventuring.</div><hr></blockquote>I wouldn't do woodworker, but I WOULD pick a tradeskill. You can get a LOT of summoned arows in one tradeskill session <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>TaleraRis wrote:<BR>Your summoning skill will keep you in arrows just fine.  <FONT color=#ffff33>...M</FONT><FONT color=#ffff33>aybe. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </FONT></P> <P>When you get into higher levels and really only if you intend to raid will you need to worry about non-summoned arrows. As  a straight soloer, so long as I take the time to keep my quiver full and make sure I'm summong constantly, I do fine with just summoned arrows. I tend to get low while in groups, but you can offset that by carrying some extra that won't fit in your quiver in your packs.<BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>With all due respect, this is all really depends on the situation, as Gwyn indicates above. In lower levels, the summoning skill will generally keep you in arrows if you summon every time it's available and if you spend a significant amount of time online with your ranger doing something other than hunting. (So you have time to summon while harvesting, crafting, or playing the lotto.) As she points out, she's soloing most of the time, and doesn't have a problem keeping up with her arrow use.</P> <P>Unfortunately, this doesn't work out for many of us. I rarely solo, so most of my time is spent in a group or raid, where I have the freedom to use my ranged attacks constantly. In several hours of grouping or raiding, I can empty my entire quiver. So I not only have to carry extras in my bags, I actually BANK them so I have some reserves. But I'm steadily eating away at my reserves now, and I can tell that in a matter of weeks, I'm going to have to buy a lot more arrows to keep up with the weekly raids and frequent Claymore groups I'm doing right now.</P> <P>So in a nutshell: you should summon as much as possible as often as you can, and it <EM>may</EM> keep you stocked for arrows. (It did for me for a long time, but not anymore b/c my playing habits have changed.) But either way, keep summoning and bank the extras if necessary, b/c you may need them someday.</P><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class=date_text>09-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:35 PM</span>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>I know my situation is unique to me.  Everyone plays differently, so this may not apply to anyone else.  I raid 4 days a week, and play in groups/duo two days a week and take one day off completely.  My playing schedule may deviate a little, but this is generally the usual for me.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I start every week with a full quiver and a full 18 slot bag of arrows.  I also fill 44 slots in my bank.  At the end of the week, I usually have maybe two stacks of arrows (this week I only had 58 arrows left) and I hit my reclaimed every chance I get.  I'm basically going through about 10K arrows a week now, and there seems to be an upward trend.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It bothers me when I hear someone complaining that they had to pay 40p for a master spell.  40p?  LOL, I can barely afford to pay my repair bills.  I can't remember the last time I had more than 1p in the bank after my weekly arrow purchase.  I'm not complaing, because I chose to be a Ranger, and I did so knowing full well that arrows would be a key aspect to my game.  But, I also think it's fair to let people know what they may be in for if they play their Ranger all the way to the end game.  In my opinion, it's worth it.  I love playing my Ranger.  For alts, I have an SK, Zerker, and Inquisitor.  But, I play my Ranger almost exclusively.</DIV> <DIV>:smileyhappy:</DIV>

[Serventof Wrath]

<P>I raid 3 days a week Friday night raid normally lasts from 9PM until 3AM ish.  Saturday night is 9 PM until 4AM ish and sunday afternoon is 1PM until 7PM.  I carry 32 slot stongboxes on my toon and a 20 slot quiver.  At the start of Friday night I fill my quiver and 2 strong boxes.  Thats over 8K arrows by Sunday I'm buying more <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>The rest of the week is harvesting lower tiers and summoning or playing alts and using their loot to offset my arrow costs.  I go through alot of arrows so I would have to agree that your playstyle will greatly affect your arrow consumption.  If you solo and reclaimed works great for you then woohoo <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  however if you raid you may find reclaimed falls far short of your needs.</P>

[Kelson]

<P>Thank you for the candid replies.  I really appreciate seeing how different playstyles can affect the need to buy arrows beyond just summoning them.</P> <P>I purchased the level 20 arrow summoning spell (backup quiver?) at adept 3 yesterday so I will get 45 arrows per summon.  A nice big 50% improvement over the adept 1 version.  I hope to find a Master 1 for a reasonable price (yeah, right) to get 60 arrows, but that may not happen.  I'll keep an eye on my arrow consumption and see if I should Master 2 it by the time level 24 comes around (I guess it just depends on how frequently I can use the damage upgrades to my other Master 2 choices).</P> <P>If worse comes to worst, I have gotten my Ranger to level 24 in Woodworking, so he can make tier 3 arrows now too (as of level 23).  I can supplement this way if need be, even though it does take awhile.  Arrows aren't THAT expensive in these earlier tiers, so I may just buy some stacks to get me by while I build up a summoned collection of arrows in my low 20s.  *shrug*</P> <P>Am I totally insane for seriously considering "wasting" my Master 2 choice on summoning more arrows if I can't find a Master 1 version?</P> <P>Thanks again!</P> <P>-Kelrick</P> <P>Lucan DLere</P>

[TaleraRis]

<P>I really think at your level and with arrow consumption at the lower levels not as much as it is in the higher levels, even grouping, you'll be fine if you can't find the Master I version. We haven't really come into our own ranged wise by the point you're at and you'll find even in groups you're going to be utilizing both melee and ranged and IIRC, I was more melee at that point. I don't even think I would worry about Master I, because those levels are going to go by very quickly.</P> <P>Leveling slows down in your 40s, so that's when I would worry about having the best in arrow summoning if you intend to group, and if you intend to solo then Adept 3 will do fine for you.</P>

[Jay]

<P>I agree with Gwyn, Adept III is *probably* fine for your level, assuming you don't hunt for 6-12 hours nonstop every single day, and actually log in to harvest / craft / etc so you have some downtime where you can summon without consuming. </P> <P>Personally, I've never used a Master 2 choice for a summoning spells, but I never found myself falling short on arrows until I'd been 70 for a while and started raiding a couple times a week.</P>

[Jayad]

At level 25 I don't think using tin arrows would be a huge problem.  But you could use level 10 arrows (iron) - they are pretty cheap - for a middle ground.  Save your money, don't buy a master.

[TaleraRis]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> <P>I agree with Gwyn, Adept III is *probably* fine for your level, assuming you don't hunt for 6-12 hours nonstop every single day, and actually log in to harvest / craft / etc so you have some downtime where you can summon without consuming.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Or you solo and level soooooo slowly and barely use any arrows in a night <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Although I've really kicked it up a notch the past couple days. I'm on the far side of 60, yay!<BR></P>

[Gwydion20]

Woodworkers can't keep resupling a raiding ranger. Arrows are very slow to make with just 25 yield, and we can't sell them and make some profit due to unfair competition from NPC vendors. A single indium arrow costs 3s 96c to make while vendor indium arrows cost 4s each. Where's our profit?. I won't spend hours to make just a single resuply for a raiding ranger at these prices, nor crafted arrows make that much difference in dmg to bother.

[Hurdoc]

<P>Reading this thread has been enlightening for my newbie Ranger, but I had a question: Will there always be an Summon Arrow spell line in every tier, including at level 70? Or will there be levels that there are no tier-appropriate arrows summoned?</P> <P>In particular, at level 70, are the summoned arrows Tier 8 (thats what level 70 is, right, tier 8?)</P>

[Gerdos]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> Hurdoc wrote: <P>Reading this thread has been enlightening for my newbie Ranger, but I had a question: Will there always be an Summon Arrow spell line in every tier, including at level 70? Or will there be levels that there are no tier-appropriate arrows summoned?</P> <P>In particular, at level 70, are the summoned arrows Tier 8 (thats what level 70 is, right, tier 8?)</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>T3 = (20)  Makeshift Arrows<BR>T4 = (34)  Salvage Arrows<BR>T5 = (4<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Backup Quiver<BR>T7 = (62)  Reclaimed Arrows</P> <P>T6 missed out, although (5<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Arrow Rip does summon 1 T6 arrow on each use.</P> <P>The only way to get T8 arrows (under the current system, these are also the only "legendary" arrows available in game) is from the 2 bows from DT.  They are level 70.</P> <P>Hypothetically, if they continue the arrow summoning line as it current stands, and assuming each expansion that provides a new tier (10 new levels) .. then expect something like this:</P> <P>T8 = (76)  (plus the summoned arrows from the 2 DT bows)<BR>T9 = (80) ... in affect, we skip T9 and jump to a T10 arrow summoning during T9.<BR>T10 = (80)  .... we continue using the T10 summoning arrow CA from lvl80 (previous tier).</P><p>Message Edited by Gerdos on <span class=date_text>09-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:59 PM</span>