Ranger's role in raids

[TimidMou]

<DIV>I was wondering what unique abilities/utility rangers bring to raids, or are we just another standard dps class? I know rangers are the top tier dps so I'm not asking about that, just wondering if we are valued for more than just our awesome damage output.</DIV>

[Ethelwo]

<P>well, if you really want to raid betray to assassin now, because no one really wants a ranger in their raid guilds. They do middle of the parse dps, but really have nothing else to offer. Assassins can at least hate buff the tank and they do much better dps. I know it stinks, but SoE really rear ended the ranger class and without vasoline too. There is nothing a Ranger can do that the Assassin class cant do better on a raid.</P> <P>If your commited to ranger then get used to soloing, because you have nothing at all to offer a group that another class cant do better. No buffs, average dps, just a class to be used as filler if nothing else is to be had.</P>

[Tarryn]

<DIV>A ranger brings nothing to a raid but decent damage.  No special utility, nothing unique.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Except, of course, that you bring the scintillating ranger personality, and by having a ranger in their raid, a group shows that they have taste and style.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[wvorster]

<font color="#ccff00" face="Verdana" size="2">well ...there's alot of USEFUL things rangers bring to raids ...1) DPS - i manage to parse anything from 650 - 1200 dps on mobs without a Brigand ( pvp server )2) Pathfinding - Speedily helps raid groups to their death , or when running away when MT dies on pull.3) Detaunt Pulls - Rangers are excellent for pulling social groups of mobs that are close together. Pulling with Surveil don't bring nearby mobs.4) Attack Hawk - This AWESOME ability siphons hate from your group. Sometimes other raid members scurry away in fear when i use this ( something to do with A.Hitcocks - "Birds" )5) Comic Relief - This is really part of Part 3 - people get a real kick out of it seeing the "puller" die at the feet of the raid when the mt is afk flagged.Other than that ... nothing much really eh.On a side note - i calced some stuff last night3 Hour Raid in Labs clearing trash for relics. We cleared past the big blue column. Not nameds.used 1500 arrows - 100gused 12 orso poison / debuff / effects - 30gand repairs - 20gSo each night this week doing this i spend 1.5pp on consumables etc.3 nights this week 4.5ppGiven that we found 15 - 20 pieces of relic and a bunch of legendaries. Was it really worth it ?</font><div></div>

[Judist]

<P>Rangers...</P> <P>Hate increasing shot, small defense debuff, small heat debuff, miracle arrows pulls, hawk, parry debuff shot, best class for jousting while remaining 100% effective, less of a burden to healers than assasins, 2 great ranged AoEs and thorny trap (actually used in a LoA raid to give enchanter more time).</P> <P>Your usefullness is what you make of it... buying debuff poisons, using hex dolls, pulling mobs, best spike damage when a brig debuffs.</P> <P>Granted they took away a noticable amount of DPS but I'll bet one day we'll hear the cry to nerf rangers again. It's been back and forth a few times already. So our time will come again but for now we just have to work a lil harder.</P>

[Rinio]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <P>Rangers...</P> <P>Hate increasing shot, <STRONG>small</STRONG> defense debuff, <STRONG>small</STRONG> heat debuff, miracle arrows pulls, hawk, parry debuff shot, best class for jousting while remaining 100% effective, less of a burden to healers than assasins, 2 great ranged AoEs and thorny trap (actually used in a LoA raid to give enchanter more time).</P> <P><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Small? man 2k heat is a preety big ammount and great for hex dolls and wizards. Hex dolls use fire resist checks unles they changes it recently? and if a wizard gets a fusion off with dispatch devitalize AND Vines, its gunna be t least alittle bigger =o</P> <P>Plus it is a parry AND Deflection shot and  not many classes can debuff deflection, and i see assassins complain about brawler mobs all the time =p</P>

[NovacaineExpre]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> wvorster wrote:<BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#ccff00 size=2>well ...<BR><BR>there's alot of USEFUL things rangers bring to raids ...<BR><BR>1) DPS - i manage to parse anything from 650 - 1200 dps on mobs without a Brigand ( pvp server ) <FONT color=#ff3300>Rangers are average DPS at best</FONT><BR>2) Pathfinding - Speedily helps raid groups to their death , or when running away when MT dies on pull.  <FONT color=#ff3300>Every other scout has this, troubs have a better version, but I still don't understand how this is at all helpful on raids</FONT><BR>3) Detaunt Pulls - Rangers are excellent for pulling social groups of mobs that are close together. Pulling with Surveil don't bring nearby mobs. <FONT color=#ff0000>Assassins can also do this </FONT><BR>4) Attack Hawk - This AWESOME ability siphons hate from your group. Sometimes other raid members scurry away in fear when i use this ( something to do with A.Hitcocks - "Birds" ) <FONT color=#ff0000>IMO this is the worst spell or CA in the game for any class in a raid situation</FONT><BR>5) Comic Relief - This is really part of Part 3 - people get a real kick out of it seeing the "puller" die at the feet of the raid when the mt is afk flagged.  <FONT color=#ff0000>and I am just going to ignore this comment</FONT><BR><BR><BR>Other than that ... nothing much really eh.<BR><BR>On a side note - i calced some stuff last night<BR><BR>3 Hour Raid in Labs clearing trash for relics. We cleared past the big blue column. Not nameds.<BR><BR>used 1500 arrows - 100g<BR>used 12 orso poison / debuff / effects - 30g<BR>and repairs - 20g<BR><BR>So each night this week doing this i spend 1.5pp on consumables etc.<BR><BR>3 nights this week 4.5pp<BR><BR>Given that we found 15 - 20 pieces of relic and a bunch of legendaries. Was it really worth it ?  <FONT color=#ff0000>not at all</FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is why rangers are have little use on a raid, anything a ranger can do there are other classes that can do it better <BR>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <P></P> <HR> <P>RinionX wrote:</P> <P>Small? man 2k heat is a preety big ammount and great for hex dolls and wizards. <STRONG>Hex dolls use fire resist checks unles they changes it recently?</STRONG> and if a wizard gets a fusion off with dispatch devitalize AND Vines, its gunna be t least alittle bigger =o</P> <P>Plus it is a parry AND Deflection shot and  not many classes can debuff deflection, and i see assassins complain about brawler mobs all the time =p</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Yes they did change it just recently.  I think they use a magic resist check now, but I can't remember for sure.</P> <P>Edit:  I looked it up and LU26 changed the hex doll resist check from heat to magic.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:40 AM</span>

[Judist]

<P><FONT color=#ccff00>4) Attack Hawk - This AWESOME ability siphons hate from your group. Sometimes other raid members scurry away in fear when i use this ( something to do with A.Hitcocks - "Birds" ) </FONT><FONT color=#ff0000>IMO this is the worst spell or CA in the game for any class in a raid situation</FONT></P> <P>Bird is hardly worthless, heres why...</P> <P>I decided to help a few lvl-55's by tanking Mago in LS for them. I held aggro with sheer DPS. There was a 55 fighter in group but we were 1-grouping mag so it was best we killed him grey with me tanking.</P> <P>Anyhow, at 50% I had gained plenty of hate as fighter did <U>not</U> use any taunts and other 3 were healers. Being the idiot I am I casted hawk at this point for some extra DPS and boredom. Within seconds that hawk transfered hate to the fighter who had to hit the nearby teleporter.</P> <P>If it can transfer hate from one lvl70 who did 4x the DPS to a guardian who <U>didnt</U> taunt once, then it works. I use it everytime it's availiable on raids and the scout/mage/healer classes are never next on target if tank dies.</P>

[NovacaineExpre]

<DIV>ok I guess your right, I guess it has one purpose:  to help 1 group The Magolemus, it truly is amazing.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Any spell that has a chance to pull agro and whipe the raid = worthless IMO</DIV>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>I agree.  Now that I don't get the aggro if the hawk dies, it is actually quite useful.  It does almost nothing for my DPS, but dang, the finger wigglers love it.  When I send the hawk in, the place lights up with nukes.  Using the hawk can increase your group's DPS by 10-20% by my estimations.  I'm old school.  I still think of DPS as a team effort.  Anything that increases the raid's overall DPS is not worthless in my book.</DIV> <P>People are always complaining about our lack of utility.  Maybe if more of us actually used the little bit of utility we have, we'd be better off.</P> <P>BTW, the hawk doesn't trasfer hate, it only absorbs it.</P> <P>Edit:  I was aggreeing with BeatinGuts.  IMO, the hawk is no longer a risk to the raid force.  He can't even pull aggro from the Templar's dancing hammer.  I've tested this several times and the mob never aggros my hawk until the hammer is dead.  I duo with a Templar a  lot and sometimes, just to be different, she pulls with her hammer and I immediately follow with the hawk.  When both pets are dead or the timers run out, the mobs always aggro the Templar.  Go figure.</P><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:10 AM</span>

[Jowita]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NovacaineExpress wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> wvorster wrote:<BR><FONT face=Verdana color=#ccff00 size=2>well ...<BR><BR>there's alot of USEFUL things rangers bring to raids ...<BR><BR>1) DPS - i manage to parse anything from 650 - 1200 dps on mobs without a Brigand ( pvp server ) <FONT color=#ff3300>Rangers are average DPS at best</FONT><BR>2) Pathfinding - Speedily helps raid groups to their death , or when running away when MT dies on pull.  <FONT color=#ff3300>Every other scout has this, troubs have a better version, but I still don't understand how this is at all helpful on raids</FONT><BR>3) Detaunt Pulls - Rangers are excellent for pulling social groups of mobs that are close together. Pulling with Surveil don't bring nearby mobs. <FONT color=#ff0000>Assassins can also do this </FONT><BR>4) Attack Hawk - This AWESOME ability siphons hate from your group. Sometimes other raid members scurry away in fear when i use this ( something to do with A.Hitcocks - "Birds" ) <FONT color=#ff0000>IMO this is the worst spell or CA in the game for any class in a raid situation</FONT><BR>5) Comic Relief - This is really part of Part 3 - people get a real kick out of it seeing the "puller" die at the feet of the raid when the mt is afk flagged.  <FONT color=#ff0000>and I am just going to ignore this comment</FONT><BR><BR><BR>Other than that ... nothing much really eh.<BR><BR>On a side note - i calced some stuff last night<BR><BR>3 Hour Raid in Labs clearing trash for relics. We cleared past the big blue column. Not nameds.<BR><BR>used 1500 arrows - 100g<BR>used 12 orso poison / debuff / effects - 30g<BR>and repairs - 20g<BR><BR>So each night this week doing this i spend 1.5pp on consumables etc.<BR><BR>3 nights this week 4.5pp<BR><BR>Given that we found 15 - 20 pieces of relic and a bunch of legendaries. Was it really worth it ?  <FONT color=#ff0000>not at all</FONT><BR><BR><BR><BR></FONT> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>This is why rangers are have little use on a raid, anything a ranger can do there are other classes that can do it better<BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hm. I thought wvorster's post was in jest. Or at least a gentle self-mockery of raiding rangers. Was I amiss in my assumption? Or have you quaffed a bit too much novacaine, Mr. N.Express?</P> <P>Or have I? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita</P>

[NovacaineExpre]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flidias wrote:<BR> <BR> <P><BR>Hm. I thought wvorster's post was in jest. Or at least a gentle self-mockery of raiding rangers. Was I amiss in my assumption? Or have you quaffed a bit too much novacaine, Mr. N.Express?</P> <P>Or have I? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>if so than I do apologize 100% its just I had a long discussion with a good friend of mine last night, an old ranger, and it was fresh on my mind.  I've been biting my tongue for a long time reading posts on the boards and getting mixed reactions.</DIV>

[Judist]

<DIV>If your hawk is wiping raids then your raids have some issues man...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hawk: Siphons hate from all non-fighter classes for <U>a few seconds</U>. The hawk's hate wipes ever few seconds while he's up. Unless your entire raid nukes at once before the hawk gets his hate-wipe he wont pull aggro. SOE put in the hate-wipe because a summoned hawk who siphons all non-fighter hate in a raid would never last its duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the hawk DOES pull aggro it's insta killed and the MT immediatly gets aggro. No real harm done and a small price to pay for reducing everyones hate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont see how you think this pet is anything but useful.</DIV><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:31 AM</span>

[NovacaineExpre]

If your pet hawk dies the hate it has gained is then transfered to you, hence pulling agro.  Many mobs, even trash mobs, have ae's.  I don't think I am the only ranger that this has happened to.  This is the reason why I don't use it in raids.

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> NovacaineExpress wrote:<BR> If your pet hawk dies the hate it has gained is then transfered to you, hence pulling agro.  Many mobs, even trash mobs, have ae's.  I don't think I am the only ranger that this has happened to.  This is the reason why I don't use it in raids.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>This has happend to me also.  But that was a long time ago.  This hasn't happend to me in over a month and I raid 3 to 4 times a week.  I'm pretty sure it's fixed.  I find the hawk to be a very valuable utility.  I know the casters like it too.

[Judist]

<P><FONT color=#ff0000>If your pet hawk dies the hate it has gained is then transfered to you, hence pulling agro.  Many mobs, even trash mobs, have ae's.  I don't think I am the only ranger that this has happened to.  This is the reason why I don't use it in raids.</FONT></P> <P>Sorry, thats never happened to me. Besides if your spaming your de-aggros when they are up it wouldnt be a problem anyhow. We may not be tier-1 DPS anymore but that no reason not to use a de-aggro everytime is up. I really dont see how you manage to pull mobs with this thing, even if its a rare occasion. We raid with 3-4 rangers who all use hawks and not once has one grabed a mob because of it. Thats 3-4 hawks on everymob on every raid for the last months Ive been raiding with these guys.</P> <P>And when our raids do wipe everyfighter goes down before any other class is touched. Often this is enuf to keep the raid going if we have enuf good fighters.</P><p>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <span class=date_text>08-25-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:57 AM</span>

[TimidMou]

<P>Ok this post confuses me. Are we not top tier dps? Or do you mean we are top tier dps just not "more top" than the other top tier dps? The reason I ask is bec I swear I remember a post by a dev who actually parsed dps among all classes and stated officially that rangers do tier 1 dps across all situations.</P> <P> </P> <P>Also, if Rangers are inferior to other classes like assassins, why is ranger still one of the most popular classses (at least on my server)? On my server anyway its nearly impossible to get many ranger books bec of the overwhelming demand for it, so what makes everyone want to play one if its not the greatest class?</P>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> BeatinGuts wrote:<BR> <DIV>If your hawk is wiping raids then your raids have some issues man...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Hawk: Siphons hate from all non-fighter classes for <U>a few seconds</U>. <EM><FONT color=#ff0000>The hawk's hate wipes ever few seconds while he's up. Unless your entire raid nukes at once before the hawk gets his hate-wipe he wont pull aggro</FONT></EM>. SOE put in the hate-wipe because a summoned hawk who siphons all non-fighter hate in a raid would never last its duration.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>If the hawk DOES pull aggro it's insta killed and the MT immediatly gets aggro. No real harm done and a small price to pay for reducing everyones hate.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I dont see how you think this pet is anything but useful.</DIV> <P>Message Edited by BeatinGuts on <SPAN class=date_text>08-25-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:31 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>OK maybe I missed an update somewhere but when was this hate wipe added to Hawk Dive ?  If this is true then yes the Hawk actually does become a useful skill.  I'd like to see some type of update note or reference from a Dev stating that the skill was changed in this way.  If the Hawk is no longer sucking up hate the entire time it's out and then dumping it on the ranger when it dies or the timer runs out that is indeed a very good and long overdue change.</P> <P>Please point me in the direction of where and when this change was made.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Blarth]

<blockquote><hr>BeatinGuts wrote:<div></div> <p>Rangers...</p> <p>Hate increasing shot, small defense debuff, small heat debuff, miracle arrows pulls, hawk, parry debuff shot, best class for jousting while remaining 100% effective, less of a burden to healers than assasins, 2 great ranged AoEs and thorny trap (actually used in a LoA raid to give enchanter more time).</p> <p>Your usefullness is what you make of it... buying debuff poisons, using hex dolls, pulling mobs, best spike damage when a brig debuffs.</p> <p>Granted they took away a noticable amount of DPS but I'll bet one day we'll hear the cry to nerf rangers again. It's been back and forth a few times already. So our time will come again but for now we just have to work a lil harder.</p><hr></blockquote>DING DING DING! To answer the original question, this is the correct response(minus the small heat debuff, its actually fairly large. Its on par with a few of the brigand debuffs). The best point made here is that it is the <b>best class fo jousting while remaining 100% effective</b>.<div></div>

[EomerFarst]

<P>I'm always asked to raid with my guild. Whether it's because I always attend or because I'm a ranger is up to you to decide.</P> <P>After playing other MMO's the one I learned is that you shouldn't take the game too seriouly and if you are unhappy then hit cancel and play something else.</P> <P>Once the game is gone nobody but yourself will remember if you did 900 dps or 1600 dps in a raid but yourself and they probably won't care if you told them.</P> <P>It's a game, treat it as such and you might just start enjoying Ranger.</P>

[snowbrdr093]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blarth wrote:<blockquote><hr>BeatinGuts wrote:<div></div> <p>Rangers...</p> <p>Hate increasing shot, small defense debuff, small heat debuff, miracle arrows pulls, hawk, parry debuff shot, best class for jousting while remaining 100% effective, less of a burden to healers than assasins, 2 great ranged AoEs and thorny trap (actually used in a LoA raid to give enchanter more time).</p> <p>Your usefullness is what you make of it... buying debuff poisons, using hex dolls, pulling mobs, best spike damage when a brig debuffs.</p> <p>Granted they took away a noticable amount of DPS but I'll bet one day we'll hear the cry to nerf rangers again. It's been back and forth a few times already. So our time will come again but for now we just have to work a lil harder.</p><hr></blockquote>DING DING DING! To answer the original question, this is the correct response(minus the small heat debuff, its actually fairly large. Its on par with a few of the brigand debuffs). The best point made here is that it is the <b>best class fo jousting while remaining 100% effective</b>.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Totally inaccurate, if you are at 100% dps while jousting you need to learn how to play your class, simple as that. <div></div><p>Message Edited by snowbrdr093 on <span class=date_text>08-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:35 AM</span>

[Judist]

<P>Thats an odd statement. </P> <P>If I can joust and remain 100% effective then maybe I <U>do</U> know how to play my class. Do you not use your melee CA's? If not... then how are YOU getting 100% out of your ranger.</P> <P><BR> </P>

[snowbrdr093]

Hmm. I suppose that might be possible, if the mob had one ae on a timer of exactly one minute and 10 seconds, and it just happened to be right after you used all your melee CAs and all of your ranged CAs were up every time. I guess in that situation you can be doing 100% dps while jousting, but i would like to hear the name of one encounter that works like that. The thing is if you can joust and maintain your dps then you arent using your melee CAs to their full potential and therefore not playing ranger to its full potential.<div></div>

[Blarth]

It was said that you will can remain 100% effective not dps. Dps is a standard set by each person. Being effective is using all you skills that help the other players while keeping a constant stream of dps. <div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div></div><div></div>I just wish my role on raids was my own.. Hell, if they are goin to make me dps dont have half util classes outdamaging me... Dont mind me - just venting..<p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>08-26-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:14 PM</span>

[Asismii]

i cant speak for any other ranger, but i am always near the top of my guilds parses... this is in a DT raiding guild... besides our dps, it is extremely useful to have ranged dps, especially for fights like the crab, and it also lets us remain out of aoe range so raid leaders can count  on having some dps in all situations,and avoid nasty aoes.. like in other fights (talendor) where the adds spawn if you are in aoe range... raid leaders dont have to worry about us losing all dps because we still have rangers plucking arrows while everyone is waiting patiently on the joust.... and it was also said about surveil pulls... very useful, yes, assassins can do it too i know.. but so can we.. and we have the single BEST hate reduction out of any class, and i dont wanna hear any [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about us not doing enough dps or whatnot and that's why we dont pull aggro, because when you do 10-13% damage to a raid mob, you are doing good dps, and i can take screens of many parses showing that's what some rangers do... so no we dont haev a whole lot of utility, but we do have some... and i am not oblivious to how much dps we lost, but im not gonna whine either... we just have to adapt... study your skills to do as much damage as you can, and you shouldnt find yourself parsing in the middle of the pack anymore

[TerriBlades]

<P>In my experiences with the crab, its a low dps fight to begin with and on top of that his AE seems to be use ranged as the determining factor in how much damage is delt. But either way, jousting this fight really shouldnt matter much, cause high dps is just going to yeild you more adds.</P> <P></P> <HR> Asismii wrote:<BR>i cant speak for any other ranger, but i am always <FONT color=#ff0000>near the top</FONT> of my guilds parses...<BR><BR> <HR> <P>Please define this a bit better. What does "near the top" mean to you? Is it being first, second? maybe third? or is it much lower then that? Even better still, why not give us a rough estimate on how much dps you are doing. Cause coming in here saying you parse near the top means very little without something to judge it by. It very well could be you are the only ranger to figure out how to play the class to its fullest, but Id put money on the fact that others in your guild are prolly just slacken off.<BR></P>

[LoreLady]

I know assismii's guild.. Assissmii is cool, but i'll be honest TRG is a guild I refuse to group with. And I havent had a problem with there people, they are just... Well,  something stupid has always gone on.I dont mean any offense - but ur dps has to be slacking.

[Asismii]

<div></div>first of all ( pet peeve) there are only 2 s' in my name =-P ok our guild may be slacking, but that doesnt mean i am crap.. and dps is a relative term, so if i say i am doing 900 dps, but the raid only did 6k, that is a lot.. whereas if i say i did 1100 dps but the raid did 18k, im sucking... that is why i put the percentage in.. and by near the top, i mean ALWAYS top 3 ususally the first.. we raided HoS tonight and overall i did 5 million 80 thousand damage thoughout the raid, the second highest, and i kid you not, did 4 million 200 thousand.... now that may seem like a big difference, but it is only about 2% of the total raid damage (41 million) so during that raid i did about 12% of the damage, whereas the second highest did 10% and i really really dont like to boast or brag, any anyone at all who knows me can tell you that, because im not an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who like to showoff and rub it in peoples faces but i have yet to be parsed against a ranger on our server who has beaten me, and please no one flame me or [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], because i know i havent parsed against everyone, but that did include quite a few other raiding rangers... and i am not joking when i have had people asking me for weeks on end what my strat is (and i dont hack =-P) so to answer your question... i usually do 10-13% of the damage on a mob... and our raiding guild ususally does about 10-11k dps( not great i know ) and out of that, i ususally sit at  1100-1300 dps give or take.. but i would much rather work in  percentages, since they  are not biased based on how much dps  the raid does as a whole as a little unimportant fact, we burned the second eye in labs and i did about 1900 dps.. so it really is relative.... but again, only 10-13% of the damage i hope this didnt seem defencive, it's not supposed to be. i hug and joke around with every ranger i see.. and all you text rangers deserve no less =-D <3 <3 <3 to rangers edit- a couple typos <div></div><p>Message Edited by Asismii on <span class=date_text>08-27-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:24 PM</span>

[Asismii]

<blockquote><hr><p>  It very well could be you are the only ranger to figure out how to play the class to its fullest, but Id put money on the fact that others in your guild are prolly just slacken off.</p><hr></blockquote>  sorry, just want to add this on because i forgot it =-P just because my guild may or may not be slacking, doesnt mean i havent learned to play my ranger very well, it isnt one end or the other with that comparison... and with regards to the crab.. i know... but ranged dps is good to have in that fight because there is no downtime.. you cant deny that<div></div>

[Rahmn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TerriBlades wrote:<BR> <P><FONT color=#ffff00>In my experiences with the crab, its a low dps fight to begin with and on top of that his AE seems to be use ranged as the determining factor in how much damage is delt. But either way, jousting this fight really shouldnt matter much, cause high dps is just going to yeild you more adds.</FONT></P> <P><FONT color=#ffff00></FONT></P> <HR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I'm actually banned from attacking the big crab cause I do too much dps even with just auto attack.  So after the adds are dead, I just stand around.

[USAFJeeper]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Rahmn wrote:<BR> <BR>I'm actually banned from attacking the big crab cause I do too much dps even with just auto attack.  So after the adds are dead, I just stand around.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Ha!   I also have to turn off autoattack or not use damage poison on crab or we get too high on DPS.  THat being said, I am not the only one in my guild to have to do that.  So do the rogues...</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[TerriBlades]

<P>LOL Jeep, just do what I do, switch to mental breach poisons and bring a coercer. We are lucky enough to usually have one for each group, and it comes in handy when everyone else is low on power. Just have the coercer divide the power evenly around the group. Bah I wish I knew the name of that spell :o)</P> <P> </P> <P><SPAN><FONT color=#ffffff>Asismii, I wasnt posting that to be rude, and Im sorry if it came off that way, and by no means was I trying to say you were crap. At one point, in our early T7 raid experience I used to be either #1 or #2 for the entire raid. Would trade back and forth with our Warlock, and we had a few ppl slacken off. As it is now, even when I hit 1400 on a parse, its quite likely that I wont make the top 5. Last night in Lyceum our Wizzy was doing around 2k (and usually died when hed spike to 3k), our Conjy was putting up 1700s regular, come to think of it, even our Zerker was pushing 1400. Course on the other had, we did have 3 brigands... one of which was played by me.</FONT></SPAN></P>

[xandez]

<div></div>But they're T2 DPS, we are T1... T2 > T1, right <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Hehe.... /sarcasm offSeriously, what happened to having fun in this GAME?While i do care about my DPS as a ranger, i dont feel that its everything in this game. I've tried hard to have fun, and after a 6 month break i feel im succeeding in it much better now. And the only reason i would attend a raid would be to have a blast. If in the process i end up having better gear/spells, good. If i had a blast, it doesnt matter if i end up with debt + repair/arrow/poison costs. But still, i just hope that someday someone will really wake up, and understand that the ability to shoot off 2 CA:s before the solo mobs gets to you is not that uber <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:22 PM</span>

[LoreLady]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Asismii wrote:<div></div>first of all ( pet peeve) there are only 2 s' in my name =-P ok our guild may be slacking, but that doesnt mean i am crap.. and dps is a relative term, so if i say i am doing 900 dps, but the raid only did 6k, that is a lot.. whereas if i say i did 1100 dps but the raid did 18k, im sucking... that is why i put the percentage in.. and by near the top, i mean ALWAYS top 3 ususally the first.. we raided HoS tonight and overall i did 5 million 80 thousand damage thoughout the raid, the second highest, and i kid you not, did 4 million 200 thousand.... now that may seem like a big difference, but it is only about 2% of the total raid damage (41 million) so during that raid i did about 12% of the damage, whereas the second highest did 10% and i really really dont like to boast or brag, any anyone at all who knows me can tell you that, because im not an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] who like to showoff and rub it in peoples faces but i have yet to be parsed against a ranger on our server who has beaten me, and please no one flame me or [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], because i know i havent parsed against everyone, but that did include quite a few other raiding rangers... and i am not joking when i have had people asking me for weeks on end what my strat is (and i dont hack =-P) so to answer your question... i usually do 10-13% of the damage on a mob... and our raiding guild ususally does about 10-11k dps( not great i know ) and out of that, i ususally sit at  1100-1300 dps give or take.. but i would much rather work in  percentages, since they  are not biased based on how much dps  the raid does as a whole as a little unimportant fact, we burned the second eye in labs and i did about 1900 dps.. so it really is relative.... but again, only 10-13% of the damage i hope this didnt seem defencive, it's not supposed to be. i hug and joke around with every ranger i see.. and all you text rangers deserve no less =-D <3 <3 <3 to rangers edit- a couple typos <div></div><p>Message Edited by Asismii on <span class="date_text">08-27-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:24 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>While your guilds still in deathtoll, and while you are a good ranger.. You parse what I parse or higher, your still not going to be as high as a well played summoner, rouge,wizard or assassin...I ment no disrespect to you in my earlier post, just that I avoid TRG.. - I did before you joined that guild..And, we dont use raid %ages, it tells us who is doing the most effort in there class.. It doesnt tell us how one ranger is doing to another in another raid.. I can do 15% of the raid damage in a 3 group situation (most of my raids are 3group) - but its going to be as hard as hell to do 15% in a 4group situation..While 1100-1300 dps is pretty good, it is still less than rouges, summoners, wizards, assassins.. Hell, our bruisers/monks/shadowknights do the same dps as me (not more) at 1k-1.2k for most raids without having maxed haste/dps.Edit - changing my sig before I end up offending someone.. AsisSmii is a friend of mine- dont want him gettin the wrong idea.</div><p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:27 PM</span>

[Asismii]

*nod* i know that our class isnt as capable as some others, but im just trying to say that with the right techniques we can  parse up there with the rest of the people.. and when i post my parses i do the damage done, the percentage, and the dps all together, but the %'s are unbiased in the idea that the more dps a raid does, the more dps you do.. who are you LoreLady? =-D <div></div>

[Asismii]

( this post is to TerriBlades) yes i see what you are saying,  and how much dps does your raid do on an average fight? 15-16k? out of curiosity is all... even as well as i think i play my class, i never expect to constantly beat a well played mage, and the mages in our guild slack sometimes ( i didnt say anything ) so its hard for me to give an accurate representation of what i do compared to them... we are a shadow of our former self, i wont deny that, but with a little tweaking we can at least keep t1 dps in most cases.... i hope <div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div></div>Its a secret! - I will say this though, im usually quiet online.<p>Message Edited by LoreLady on <span class=date_text>08-30-2006</span> <span class=time_text>03:15 PM</span>

[Asismii]

boo secrets!!! what's the first letter? =-x and i assume you are a girl? hehe <div></div>

[LoreLady]

Im not - first name starts with M.. And the fourm name was something I explained to u a long while back.