SoA, do you use it?

[xandez]

Honestly, i cant remember the last time i have used it. Granted, i solo quite a lot, but... Its completely useless in solo play and i really can't find any good use it in normal grouping situations... How about raids or sumthing?++Xan<div></div>

[Tarryn]

<DIV>I just keep it on one of my hotbars for sentimental reasons.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[xandez]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tarryn wrote:<div>I just keep it on one of my hotbars for sentimental reasons.  <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Exactly, its in mine for that reason alone <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan

[Vaiko]

<DIV>I actually use it. There are some special situations in raids where the type of damage is restricted or other restrictions apply which prevent most of the raid members doing their normal damage. These fights normally take much longer than the common quick kills. In these situations, I use regularly SoA because it’s not consuming loots of power, is long range and keeps my CPS low. </DIV> <DIV>If the people are still able to debuff the mob, 800 DPS are possible with SoA und the ranged combat arts in between.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I think it’s not necessary to kill the mobs in this way. There may be other strategies, which would kill the mob as well. But this one is quite simple and gives results.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don’t use SoA in group situations. Fights are to short and when I’m able to move freely I’m far better with my standard ranged / short range CAs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I don’t solo, I think it’s no fun.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Gareorn]

I use it when I need to let the dogs out, refresh my drink, etc.  I have the M1 version, so it doesn't cost me much DPS.  I rarely use it for this purpose, but it's nice to have just in case.

[NovacaineExpre]

I use it on trash mobs during raids and put tin arrows in my quiver (since it still goes for CA damage not auto attack).  Tin arrows cost 1cp so this helps a ton in minimalizing my higher tier arrow consumption. 

[n8cavy]

I've used when I dual boxed a raid zone and my main being the MT. I keep em on auto follow on another ranger and when the aggro sets in I use SOA at first and if mob goes well focus aim with every attack he can bring out. Only thing I pay attention to is where I activate SOA if the other ranger was too close then an AE rocks me LOL. ( I have 2nd keyboard attacks set to num lock 1-9 etc...) <div></div>

[BSbon]

i know i dont use it. i'm only 53 so i dont even have it.

[Deml]

<DIV>Not at all.  I can't think of a situation when Stream would be more beneficial than triggering Amazing Reflexes for max haste and Killing Instinct and just letting that go.  Sure, I won't fire arrows as fast but they will hit a lot harder and those buffs last longer.</DIV>

[Dirtgirl]

<P><FONT color=#ffcc66>Only on mobs that are going to stun or stifle me....and especially fear.<BR>God bless the AoE caller.</FONT></P>

[LoreLady]

If im low on power and dont have any other haste than my own (I use mental breach poisons 100% of the time)If I am fighting the corslander - I will throw my birdie in, and use SoA (as well as jumping in and using mortal reminder) till the birds dead.. Other than that - not really.

[Jayad]

I use it when I need to do some guild chat.  It's like a "pause" button.

[USAFJeeper]

When I need a 30 second AFK.

[Saihung23]

<P>Just to reiterate what others have said...</P> <P>I have it on my hotbar...I dont know why...</P> <P>I never use it solo...</P> <P>I never use it in groups....</P> <P>I didnt have it the last time I raided (yep...its been that long)</P> <P>Stream of Arrows stinks as it is.  </P> <P>Most useless... Skill... Ever.  Heck...at least bounty gives you some chump change to dole out to your newbie alts.</P>

[Gerdos]

<P>I use it against mobs that fear.   It locks you in place and allows you to continue attacking while everyone else is running around feared.  You just need to anticipate the timings.</P> <P>I also use it when i need to inspect other targets.   Kick it in, and your locked onto the target for 30sec's, and can then freely switch to other targets (players or mobs) safely while continueing attacking on the original target.   Good to check up on players to see who's targetting who.</P> <P>Just remember, you can deactivate it at anytime.</P>

[TerriBlades]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Gerdos wrote:<BR> <P>I use it against mobs that fear.   It locks you in place and allows you to continue attacking while everyone else is running around feared.  You just need to anticipate the timings.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I only use it for 2 reasons, and both have been listed. I used it against mobs that Fear, and I'll use it on long fights after switching to a mental breech when Im low on power. Other then those two reasons, this CA is a joke. Works wonders with that silly lil gnome too.<BR>

[TimidMou]

Why do you say that SoA is useless? I use it all the time; usually I cycle all my attacks and when I am waiting for them to recharge I hit SoA... am I missing something?

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TimidMouse wrote:<BR> Why do you say that SoA is useless? I use it all the time; usually I cycle all my attacks and when I am waiting for them to recharge I hit SoA... am I missing something?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It does less DPS then your auto attack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You actually loose damage by using it.  The only time I ever use it is against Fear mobs like others have mentioned.  And I click it off as soon as the fear ends and go back to normal auto attack and CA's.  It's only real use these days is as an anti fear gimmick.</P> <P> </P>

[TimidMou]

ah darn it! and i wasted a loam on it too sigh, if i had known i could have saved myself a plat <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Crychtonn]

<P>To be honest it might still be useful for you if your'e still in your 50's.  I along with most others here are posting looking at this skill from the point of view of being 70 or in the 60's.  But once you hit 60 and can start using T7 adamantine arrows the analysis of your DPS going down is definitely accurate.  I never compared it to damage done using T6 ammo.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Blarth]

It doesnt stay in my main cycle but if for some reason I die, I will throw up a mental breach and just use it to get my power back up. Autoattack with my bow is 2.0s delay whereas SoA is suppose to be 1.5. If it works right you and up getting more arrows on the mob that have the chance to boost up your power. Like said above, fear mobs. <div></div>

[jtiltonaz]

I use it. I have a long bow with a 7 second delay and it only shoots 1 arrow per round. Stream of arrow shoots a nice steady stream with every 1.5 sec, and goes for a nice round of damage. It's not any good for soloing but still helpful. 

[BlackMaw60]

ok in pvp, if you have mental breach poison (the power drain poison) use SoA on a healer when they use that ooc heal tactic. watch their power drop faster than their health lol <div></div>

[Asismii]

if you dont use it you [Removed for Content] your rangers dps in raids.. plain and simple. <div></div>

[VisualFoundry]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TimidMouse wrote:<BR> Why do you say that SoA is useless? I use it all the time; usually I cycle all my attacks and when I am waiting for them to recharge I hit SoA... am I missing something?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>It does less DPS then your auto attack <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  You actually loose damage by using it.  The only time I ever use it is against Fear mobs like others have mentioned.  And I click it off as soon as the fear ends and go back to normal auto attack and CA's.  It's only real use these days is as an anti fear gimmick.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I've heard others say this before, and I guess I must just be missing something. Assuming a 6 second delay on one's bow, and an average auto-attack hit of 1200 or so, I don't see how auto-attack is better than SoA. I use SoA when waiting for timers on everything else and it would seem to me that 700-1000 damage every 1.5 seconds would add up to an equivalent of 2800-4000 over a period of 6 seconds. Again, am I missing something here? Would appreciate it if someone could shed some light on this for me.

[xandez]

It would even be somewhat uselful in solo, IF it  actually shto the 1st arrow, and the mob would came to you after that... But no, teh mob turns ASAP and if your lucky, you'll get 1 shot of it before its too close <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />WIth small changes to SoA, it could be improved overall, yet not making it too goodie goodie (which it obviously was in the start, hence the nerfbat swings)++Xan<div></div>

[Gareorn]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asismii wrote:<BR>if you dont use it you [Removed for Content] your rangers dps in raids.. plain and simple.<BR> <P></P> <HR> <P>I have to disagree.  I run my ACT parser through a G15 keyboard which allows me to view my DPS as it's happening.  I have SoA M1 and when I activate it, I watch my DPS fall like rock.  I realize I'm not the best Ranger in the world, but something tells me that lowering my DPS at the cost of power is counter productive.</P></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV>

[Teksun]

I use it on mobs that fear. IMHO this makes the CA worthwhile, even if there aren't a lot of mobs to use it on.How many other classes can still do something while feared?<div></div>

[Asismii]

i have the exact same thing with the g15 and the act... but yes, SoA isnt as high as our CA  damage, but it is better then auto attack damage while you wait for your CA's to refresh, therefore using it after you burn all your ca's will increase your dps, and if you have been jester cap'd you cn just cancel it.... what do you do when your CA's run out? just auto attack? <div></div>

[jarlaxle8]

I think the reason some people see higher numbers with autoattack, while others argue StroA is higher, is because of haste. Haste only works on auttoattack. So, the higher the haste, the more likely normal autoattack will out-dps StroA

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asismii wrote:<BR>i have the exact same thing with the g15 and the act... but yes, SoA isnt as high as our CA  damage, but it is better then auto attack damage while you wait for your CA's to refresh, therefore using it after you burn all your ca's will increase your dps, and if you have been jester cap'd you cn just cancel it....<BR><BR><EM><STRONG>what do you do when your CA's run out? just auto attack?<BR></STRONG></EM> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The answer to that question would be a simple <STRONG>YES</STRONG></P> <P>My auto attack hits for 1.9-2.4K and crits for 4.6K and with 31.5% crit's it crits alot.  In addition to this it also multiplies all my proc perentages by a factor of 2.333 do to the long bow 7 sec delay.  Compared to SoA which only hits for 700-1.1K and reduces my chance to proc and will only proc on the first shot this is a no brainer.</P> <P>As far as running out of CA's to begin with that rarely happens.  All my CA's are used around my auto attack and are never spammed.  Auto attack generates a large portion of my DPS and I treat it that way.  Keeping a combat window open for just my attacks so I can see and track when it goes off and to use another CA.</P> <P>There is no debate here.  If you are L70 and using SoA for anything other then against Fear mobs you are lowering your DPS.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P>

[jarlaxle8]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Compared to SoA which only hits for 700-1.1K and reduces my chance to proc and will <FONT color=#ffcc00>only proc on the first shot</FONT> this is a no brainer.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think I read that was a bug and supposed to have been fixed/will be fixed. No idea where that was though, and I'm too lazy to search :smileytongue:

[Jayad]

<P>The reason auto-attack does more than SoA is because of haste, DPS buffs (if you got em), and procs like poison.</P> <P>SoA is really not useful after T6 at all.</P>

[Asismii]

<blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Asismii wrote:i have the exact same thing with the g15 and the act... but yes, SoA isnt as high as our CA  damage, but it is better then auto attack damage while you wait for your CA's to refresh, therefore using it after you burn all your ca's will increase your dps, and if you have been jester cap'd you cn just cancel it....<em><strong>what do you do when your CA's run out? just auto attack?</strong></em> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>The answer to that question would be a simple <strong>YES</strong></p> <p>My auto attack hits for 1.9-2.4K and crits for 4.6K and with 31.5% crit's it crits alot.  In addition to this it also multiplies all my proc perentages by a factor of 2.333 do to the long bow 7 sec delay.  Compared to SoA which only hits for 700-1.1K and reduces my chance to proc and will only proc on the first shot this is a no brainer.</p> <p>As far as running out of CA's to begin with that rarely happens.  All my CA's are used around my auto attack and are never spammed.  Auto attack generates a large portion of my DPS and I treat it that way.  Keeping a combat window open for just my attacks so I can see and track when it goes off and to use another CA.</p> <p>There is no debate here.  If you are L70 and using SoA for anything other then against Fear mobs you are lowering your DPS.</p> <hr></blockquote> ' ok ill try it then, but i  (as said in a previous post) am always at or near the top of the dps in my raids.. and poison will proc off of SoA as well, which adds another 700 dmg each time it does, and the wurm destroyer bow procs off of it each time too......<div></div>

[Rahmn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Asismii wrote:<BR>i have the exact same thing with the g15 and the act... but yes, SoA isnt as high as our CA  damage, but it is better then auto attack damage while you wait for your CA's to refresh, therefore using it after you burn all your ca's will increase your dps, and if you have been jester cap'd you cn just cancel it....<BR><BR><EM><STRONG>what do you do when your CA's run out? just auto attack?<BR></STRONG></EM> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>The answer to that question would be a simple <STRONG>YES</STRONG></P> <P>My auto attack hits for 1.9-2.4K and crits for 4.6K and with 31.5% crit's it crits alot.  In addition to this it also multiplies all my proc perentages by a factor of 2.333 do to the long bow 7 sec delay.  Compared to SoA which only hits for 700-1.1K and reduces my chance to proc and will only proc on the first shot this is a no brainer.</P> <P>As far as running out of CA's to begin with that rarely happens.  All my CA's are used around my auto attack and are never spammed.  Auto attack generates a large portion of my DPS and I treat it that way.  Keeping a combat window open for just my attacks so I can see and track when it goes off and to use another CA.</P> <P>There is no debate here.  If you are L70 and using SoA for anything other then against Fear mobs you are lowering your DPS.</P> <P> </P> <P><BR> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I had a similar opinion until I actually had the theory tested out.  For me, with the Ancestral bow, zone wide average auto attack dps was 590ish with Stream zone wide average dps at 820 (1100ave every 1.5 secs).  This was done during the course of a whole raid.   The only time I use it though is when all my ranged and melee CA's are down, which equals about 10sec of down time every minute.  As soon as I have my 60 sec recast attacks back up I cancel Stream and let the cycle begin again. <P>Here's the data, ranged auto attack is "pierce" notice the delay of 3.9, I was usuing my WyrmBuster short bow atm, but Stream damage is independant of the bow. <A href="http://www.chriscubed.com/eq2/Vert-data.html" target=_blank>http://www.chriscubed.com/eq2/Vert-data.html</A> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Rahmn on <span class=date_text>08-28-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:14 PM</span>

[Asismii]

*nod* i do the same thing Vertigo... and it works well for me too <div></div>

[TerriBlades]

<P>Im going to have to agree with several other ppl here. Even with Stream at M1, your DPS will fall off quick fast and in a hurry, thus giving it a very limited use. To settle this debate, perhaps we could get some numbers of just streams dps, and a pure ranged auto attacks dps. Not that it truely matters one way or another, as theres almost always a CA up, or on the way up (within a few seconds), but it would still be interesting to see.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Asismii]

while yes, there is no way stream can compare to a CA barrage from us rangers, you would have to expect your dps to fall.... i just have noticed from my experience that SoA + grandmasters caustic > auto attack + grandmasters caustic ( and procs of course).. but i havent really looked that deep into it.. i will have to do some playing around with it in teh near future.. to each his or her own i guess, play the class how you will, i will never tell another ranger how to play their toon, just say what i do personally <div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<P>You're right it really is up to each person to play around with and decide what works best for them.  My analysis will be different then your just based on us using different weapons and possibly different ammo.  Same goes for almost everyone.  People can have similar setups but most with have differences in items here and there.  And of course group setups can be an even bigger factor.  My analysis come from assuming there is some group DPS/Haste being added along with and outside proc or two.</P> <P>I know my weapon setup is out of the ordinary and my AA choices are also.  I'd be very surprised to find another ranger using a similar setup.  But I like my oddball setup and with recent tweaks to my AA choices having been seeing by best DPS numbers in awhile.  Even been popping over that 1500 single target DPS barrier semi regularly.  Which I feel pretty good about considering I still don't have either the bow from Venekor or Ghazzi.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Wil81115]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jarlaxle888 wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <BR> <P>Compared to SoA which only hits for 700-1.1K and reduces my chance to proc and will <FONT color=#ffcc00>only proc on the first shot</FONT> this is a no brainer.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I think I read that was a bug and supposed to have been fixed/will be fixed. No idea where that was though, and I'm too lazy to search :smileytongue:<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yes thats was how it was, but its not now.  It was changed.  It CAN and DOES proc multiple times now during stream.  I watched it last week on a pickup raid.. i started using SoA alot, as i got tired of pulling aggro and dieing not using it while doing my regular rutine..   It proc'd 6 times in one use and anywhere from 1-5x in other uses.  Its also nice to have a conj or SK or Paly for their buffs that can proc of ranged attacks during it.</P>

[xandez]

hmmh...have to test that someday, didnt notice it proccing last nite when using it against some grey mobsBut didnt pay that much attention to that really <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />++Xan<div></div>

[TimidMou]

<DIV>Just one thing, if you had Poise, which reduced the casting time on SoA, would that make it once again viable at T7? As you know poise effecitvely incr. SoA's damage output by the reduction in casting time.</DIV>

[LoreLady]

Well - do the math..At adept 3 (cant remember what its at witht he master) with max str its somewhere along the lines of 450-750 damage every 1.5s.. With poise this becomes 1.1s..Offensive - master offensive at max str is somewhere around 540 damage at every 30%Caustic poison is 500 damage at a 25% chance.. So nwo we have our numbers - lets figure out our DPS values.Offensive - 30%/540 = 180ish (doing this in my head)Caustic poison = 125 dpsSoA = 750 at 1.1s =  lets say 700 dps to 400 dps..So... 180125-- 305      305700       400--- 1005      705So.. Lets assume that all this crits with the 52% spell crit AA (applies for all of the above)1300  to 915Its not "as bad" as people say it is, but atleast thats what you do if you wish to maintain ranged. Also - because of the way procs work - add in another 10% to proc  per ability with poise.. SoA is something I use if I am in something like HoS and the joust calls are going bad, but its nothing to get excited about.And just FYI.. All the calculations were done in my head and are rough estimates.. Its simple math and you get the idea.

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>I use it when i'm lazy, or near OOP on a near dead mob and don't feel like switching to mental breach..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>It's a huge decrease in DPS, so it really is crap. Even if I were to crit with it every hit for like 1500, it's still like 1200 DPS, which is a rather large drop in most fights.</DIV>

[LoreLady]

Yea - 700-1300 isent much for sustained dps.. But atleast its something to hold dps - its not like were doing much more than 1.2k dps even if we spam all our CA's and what not - even if your completely mastered.

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR>Yea - 700-1300 isent much for sustained dps.. But atleast its something to hold dps - its not like were doing much more than 1.2k dps even if we spam all our CA's and what not - even if your completely mastered.<BR><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Maybe you're not, but I don't have any issues pushing 1.8k or higher on plenty of encounters.<BR></P> <P>I'd personally like something in a CA that didn't drop as much DPS as SoA has the potential to.</P><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class=date_text>09-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:22 AM</span>

[athitchcock]

<div></div>At lvl 70, I don't expect a lvl 55 skill to be that hot. Do other classes use their lvl 55 ancient teaching skills at 70?I find SOA useful for mobs that fear, as noted several times above.Gnaril<div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> LoreLady wrote:Yea - 700-1300 isent much for sustained dps.. But atleast its something to hold dps - its not like were doing much more than 1.2k dps even if we spam all our CA's and what not - even if your completely mastered. <hr> </blockquote> <p>Maybe you're not, but I don't have any issues pushing 1.8k or higher on plenty of encounters.</p> <p>I'd personally like something in a CA that didn't drop as much DPS as SoA has the potential to.</p><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class="date_text">09-03-2006</span> <span class="time_text">12:22 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>On what? Gnorbl? - Anything around the 2 min mark - and rangers max out around 1.4k dps.. If you have parsings of 2 min fights or so where you hold 1.8k dps id love to see it.. If your talking 30s fights (they are out there) - even an enchanter can do 1.8k dps.</div>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<P>Two minute fights? Above 1.8k?</P> <P>Essence of Fear, Gnorbl. Harla Dar, Vyemm, Venekor, other random named in Raid zones that I don't remember the names to.</P> <P> </P> <P>I'm sure you know who my guild leaders are.. Ask them, or my officers.</P> <P> </P>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<P>err, well. Some of those aren't two minutes. Actually vyemm is usually below a minute, heh. but still, I hit 1.8k or over on those.</P> <P> </P> <P>Provided I don't die. =(</P><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class=date_text>09-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:37 PM</span>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Depending on what Bow and what Ammo he's using I believe him.  I just got the Sarnac bow yesterday and already see a huge difference in my DPS capabilities.</P> <P> </P> <P>PS - Sarnac bow appears to have a serious bug to it.  There is a thread about it in the Spells and Combat Arts forums.</P>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Crychtonn wrote:<BR> <P>Depending on what Bow and what Ammo he's using I believe him.  I just got the Sarnac bow yesterday and already see a huge difference in my DPS capabilities.</P> <P> </P> <P>PS - Sarnac bow appears to have a serious bug to it.  There is a thread about it in the Spells and Combat Arts forums.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I have been playing with that, i'm not seeing his complaint take form, however.