Out for 10 mos. what's happened in Ranger Land?

[Gilgadesh]

<DIV>I've been out of EQ for about 10 months.  So, what have they done to my ranger lately.  I see lots of complaint posts - and its bumming me out.  Are these over reactions?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>When I left, wizards were complaining that we did too much DPS and our Assassin brethren were in need of some serious lovin'.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The board makes it sound like we are down on the DPS list - bummer, what happened?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The only problem I was having when I left my ranger was I couldn't get enough bowshots off before the MoB closed with me solo, and I had to make sure to de-aggro often in a group to avoid getting Mr. Nasty's attention.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>So anyone able to give me a synopsis of what went on in ranger land?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Gil</DIV>

[Rinio]

<DIV>I dont want to talk about it =(</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>do your self a favor though and stay retired, Wish I could but im to comited to my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] guild.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>well, i guess you should be good mate, they turned the joust line into a 4second root instead of a dot..lowered dps imo but ok..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>you can get off afew more bow attacks with the root when you solo</DIV>

[Dragonsviperz]

<P>Assassins and rangers switched places basically. Well...kind of.</P> <P>Rangers were nerfed because they were thought to be too overpowered. They nerfed Stream of Arrows being able to proc poison/armor/wep procs on every arrow. Then I think they did something with the movement aspect of SoA in that the ranger cannot cast and run at the same time.</P> <P>Next they said they were going to increase the damage of auto attack rangers could do with bows to match the dps an assassin could do with their melee weps, but that never happened. There are other aspects of the ranger that were nerfed, but I can't remember much.</P> <P>They don't compare to assassins because we had a few changes to us, minor, but good. Example, they fixed our Mark line (well put it back to what it was supposed to do back when the game started). Its a skill that has a reuse of 30secs that hits 5 times for 1200-1500 damage each. Thats like our Stream of Arrows if you can compare it when that skill was used in t6. Mark accounts for 15%-20% of our total dps.</P> <P>SoE shafted you guys on the lvl 65 skill compared to us (assassin). You guys get a useless bird that reduces aggro or something...Assassins get a skill that increases damage by 15% and lowers their reuse timer on all CA's under 1min for 40secs. Yea....Exacting > Falcon thingy.</P> <P>There are a few things wrong with the ranger class that can be fixed pretty easily, but Lockeye thinks rangers can dps on par with that of a conjuror and an assassin.</P>

[Teksun]

The Ranger class is still a fun class. If you don't raid you may not even notice the nerf much, other than that Tig said it all <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Ranja]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragonsviperz wrote:<BR> <P>Assassins and rangers switched places basically. Well...kind of.</P> <P>Rangers were nerfed because they were thought to be too overpowered. They nerfed Stream of Arrows being able to proc poison/armor/wep procs on every arrow. Then I think they did something with the movement aspect of SoA in that the ranger cannot cast and run at the same time.</P> <P>Next they said they were going to increase the damage of auto attack rangers could do with bows to match the dps an assassin could do with their melee weps, but that never happened. There are other aspects of the ranger that were nerfed, but I can't remember much.</P> <P>They don't compare to assassins because we had a few changes to us, minor, but good. Example, they fixed our Mark line (well put it back to what it was supposed to do back when the game started). Its a skill that has a reuse of 30secs that hits 5 times for 1200-1500 damage each. Thats like our Stream of Arrows if you can compare it when that skill was used in t6. Mark accounts for 15%-20% of our total dps.</P> <P>SoE shafted you guys on the lvl 65 skill compared to us (assassin). You guys get a useless bird that reduces aggro or something...Assassins get a skill that increases damage by 15% and lowers their reuse timer on all CA's under 1min for 40secs. Yea....Exacting > Falcon thingy.</P> <P>There are a few things wrong with the ranger class that can be fixed pretty easily, <STRONG>but Lockeye thinks rangers can dps on par with that of a conjuror and an assassin.</STRONG></P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>That is the problem. We will never be fixed until a problem is perceived nad right now Ranger DPS is fine according to Lockeye. Check out the parse he threw up in a thread entitled "Where are you in parsing, be honest". He threw up a couple of parses that had the Ranger doing 1500 DPS and every other class below 1000. He had wizards, assassins, and brigands and swashies all parsing around 800. This means that the raid was set -up for the Ranger to succeed and every one of those other classes was AFK at the time. Other guilds came in and threw up parses with ASsassin, Brigands, Swashies, Conj, and wizzies parsing 1700 -2000. That is the crux, a Ranger going all out cannot compete with these other classes going all out. </P> <P>With that said, this only pertains to the raiding Ranger. We solo and group well so if that is your thing I would not worry about all this DPS stuff.<BR></P><p>Message Edited by bentgate on <span class=date_text>08-22-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:49 AM</span>

[Sirlutt]

Bengate .. but <b>for what he measured </b>... it is on par.. thats the point your not getting.you dont ballance a class based on the performance of 5% of the population... its unfortunate. but true.. you just cant do that otherwise you end up with alot larger % of people upset.its really hard to put in some kind of fix that raises the DPS for the 5% that need it without returning the other 95% to being over pwoered..i've always been told dont complain about something unless you've got a fix.. i'd concentrate more effort on detailed fixes, rather than proving the gap.  LoreLady has some good ideas, so do others.  Just need to spend the same amount of effort detailing those as wishing for stuff that isnt going to happen.to the OP, ignore the forums and go play your ranger.. if you stop listening to people telling you how much you suck and how unhappy you shoudl be, you'll realise you dont suck and your not unhappy.<div></div>

[Dragonsviperz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR>Bengate .. but <B>for what he measured </B>... it is on par.. thats the point your not getting.<BR><BR>you dont ballance a class based on the performance of 5% of the population... its unfortunate. but true.. you just cant do that otherwise you end up with alot larger % of people upset.<BR><BR>its really hard to put in some kind of fix that raises the DPS for the 5% that need it without returning the other 95% to being over pwoered..<BR><BR>i've always been told dont complain about something unless you've got a fix.. i'd concentrate more effort on detailed fixes, rather than proving the gap.  LoreLady has some good ideas, so do others.  Just need to spend the same amount of effort detailing those as wishing for stuff that isnt going to happen.<BR><BR>to the OP, ignore the forums and go play your ranger.. if you stop listening to people telling you how much you suck and how unhappy you shoudl be, you'll realise you dont suck and your not unhappy.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I'm not saying he sucks, he asked a question and I answered truthfuly. I didn't want to candy coat it either. </P> <P>And with some of the fixes that many have proposed that would increase the dps of a ranger in raids, it might help out soloing, or grouping. I mean a ranger's only job is to dps. There is nothing more to it, and whats "broken" right now is the dps.</P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Dragonsviperz wrote:<div></div><p>I'm not saying he sucks, he asked a question and I answered truthfuly. I didn't want to candy coat it either. </p> <p>And with some of the fixes that many have proposed that would increase the dps of a ranger in raids, it might help out soloing, or grouping. I mean a ranger's only job is to dps. There is nothing more to it, and whats "broken" right now is the dps.</p><hr></blockquote>yeah probably would help out those situations too.as for the "only job is DPS" .. thats a whole new argument..  and i guess i am on the wrong side of that one too.. loli still think given Assassin/Conj/Wizard/Ranger = 2000DPS your last choice would be the Ranger because they bring nothing else but DPS,  you could put any of the other 3 in there and get something "extra" on top of the DPS.  Still doesnt fix them IMO.</div>

[Dragonsviperz]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Dragonsviperz wrote: <P><BR>I'm not saying he sucks, he asked a question and I answered truthfuly. I didn't want to candy coat it either. </P> <P>And with some of the fixes that many have proposed that would increase the dps of a ranger in raids, it might help out soloing, or grouping. I mean a ranger's only job is to dps. There is nothing more to it, and whats "broken" right now is the dps.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>yeah probably would help out those situations too.<BR><BR>as for the "only job is DPS" .. thats a whole new argument..  and i guess i am on the wrong side of that one too.. lol<BR><BR>i still think given Assassin/Conj/Wizard/Ranger = 2000DPS your last choice would be the Ranger because they bring nothing else but DPS,  you could put any of the other 3 in there and get something "extra" on top of the DPS.  Still doesnt fix them IMO.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Yea I can see where you are coming from, but I don't bring much to the raid/groups except dps. So why shouldn't rangers do close to the same thing? </P> <P>Adding a little something to a ranger would be nice, some type of "utility". Maybe a proc like Apply Poison. Who knows, there are a few things that have been stated.</P>

[Jayad]

<P>We've had many suggestions and threads on how to fix/change the Ranger class.  Problem is, the devs don't think there's a problem.  Thus, most of the threads have focused on showing there is a problem. </P> <P>It's really not hard to fix us.  There's so many things you could do to improve rangers.  But all right, I'll toss out some.</P> <P>I think to start out, though, you have to fix auto-attacks between bows and melee weapons.  Fabled bows need to exist with a reasonable chance of getting them.  There's like 5 million fabled 2H weapons, many of which are very nice, have a good DR, and nice procs, yet there's verrrry few comperable bows.  Not saying there should be a zillion bow drops, but a few would be nice NOT off the end bosses and contested.   I think having to use T8 ammo to do our damage is a bunch of crap.  That'll totally [Removed for Content] us on the next tier.  It also means you have to use particular bows instead of picking them based on DR/procs.   Also, fix the disparity between the top level fabled drops DR on 2H weapons and bows.  AND grizzlefazzle's DR.</P> <P>Next improve/fix/completely rip out and start over with stream of arrows and the hawk.  Just give us the assassin ones, making sure they work for our CAs/timers.  Or comperable ones.</P> <P>I think that would solve many of the issues.  From there, you could look at further tweaks if needed.  I think the whole casting timer thing has to be looked at.  Ranged attacks have ridiculous timers without the benefit of higher damage.</P> <P>All that being said, back to the OP - you only notice this on high end raids.  In any other situation, I think you'll find you do very well.  Expect a few weeks of relearning your class.  It plays very differently now. </P> <P>I still think soloing is broken for rangers, but I think I'm in the minority on that.  And since I don't solo with my ranger, I guess I'm not sure I care. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P>

[Crychtonn]

<P>Sirlutt you seem to have a very short term memory or weren't around during DoF.  Back then it was the assassin that was in the spot rangers are in now.  And they had an even wider gap to deal with then the current one rangers suffer from.  Considering where the changes and were the classes are now their efforts to get fixed back then were not fruitless.  They did take an extended time before changes were made but it did happen.  Assassin now sit in a good position and compared to most other DPS classes appear very well balanced.  So why is it now that rangers are the ones in need of a little help that it's wrong or dumb to try and get it.</P> <P> </P> <P>To the OP your ranger is still a fun class to play but can be a very expensive one.  The one thing Tigruz missed was you now have to use tier appropriate ammo to do decent damage.  At your current level you won't have a summon arrow skill that does this so you'll need to buy all your arrows.  You'll get your next arrow summon at 62 and it will summon T7 arrows to cut down on costs.  Get this at adept 3 asap and use it everytime it's up.  If you're a non raider it should provide you enough arrows to avoid having to buy merchant ones.  Outside of the DPS gap the costs of arrows is the next biggest cross rangers must bare.</P> <P> </P>

[Jayad]

<DIV>FYI I don't think adept3 summon arrows summons quite enough, even for grouping (if you are the type who groups for a while and kills many encounters quickly).  If you have "off time" to summon, then you should be ok with adept3. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I have had far fewer problems since I got master1 arrow summons, but before that it was painful.  Of course, I also rarely play my ranger now, and almost never raid... hmmmm I guess that is one way of cutting down on your costs.</DIV>

[BSbon]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR><BR><BR>to the OP, ignore the forums and go play your ranger.. if you stop listening to people telling you how much you suck and how unhappy you shoudl be, you'll realise you dont suck and your not unhappy.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>you keep saying that we dont suck and are not unhappy but you switched to assassin. why is that?<BR>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote:to the OP, ignore the forums and go play your ranger.. if you stop listening to people telling you how much you suck and how unhappy you shoudl be, you'll realise you dont suck and your not unhappy. <div></div> <hr> </blockquote>you keep saying that we dont suck and are not unhappy but you switched to assassin. why is that?<hr></blockquote>as I posted before... because I elected to give the MT job to a friend who needed it more than me and because we had 4 Rangers and 0 Assassins.  We now have a new Necro, a new Zerker , an assassin and only one of the Rangers.  Everyone is happy.  None of us are paying $15 a month to play something we are unhappy with, or going through the motions playing something we dont enjoy praying for changes.  The remaining Ranger we have parses very well, as do most of our people.  we are able to hit 15K DPS regulalry and peak up over 20k when we need as a raid.. not world class, but it gets the job done.  The common factor is we are all playing something we enjoy.  I get the distinct feeling alot of people are not.  There are few ways to deal with that.  Suck it up and  move on to something you DO enjoy.  Be happy with what you have.  Or complain alot about how much life is unfair and everything sucks.  Pick which ever one floats your boat is all I am saying.btw someone up above, yet again tried to remind me of times past.  Newsflash -  i was a ranger before rangers were cool, I was a ranger before assassins were cool, i was a ranger when rangers were cool and now i'm an assassin when assassins are cool.  Deal with it.  I've betrayed twice (once before it was cool and once after it was cool) and if the mood strikes me I'll do it again.</div>

[Jayad]

So, we shouldn't discuss problems with classes constructively - just ignore them by moving on or being silent?  Heh.

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div>So, we shouldn't discuss problems with classes constructively - just ignore them by moving on or being silent?  Heh.<hr></blockquote>ah nope.. i think you skipped over the part where you just do what makes you happy.. discuss all you like... if thats how you wanna spend your time and energy.. more power to ya <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Nak]

Comparable to popular belief, Devs actually did something to adjust <u><i><b>A (as in one) </b></i></u>Bow DR's to increase auto attack That recurved heart slinger or stinger (idk which it is!) from those [Removed for Content] cube mobs in bonemire had it's dr increase from 80.3 ish to about a 94.3 ish............................................... .................................................. .................................................. ......... and yeah that was about it....[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing awesome I know! <div></div>