My turn to whine

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV>

[Pins]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Post the parse of you doing 1500 DPS zone-wide in any zone please.

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Pinski wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Post the parse of you doing 1500 DPS zone-wide in any zone please.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I don't have raid zone averages of 1500, it usually sits around 1300. I just said pushing 1500 wouldn't be so hard.</P> <P> </P> <P>I posted this on the forums a few days ago..</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=34914&view=by_date_ascending&page=10" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=39&message.id=34914&view=by_date_ascending&page=10</A></P><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class=date_text>08-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>07:29 PM</span>

[Drainlo]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only.... </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>i would love to have seen that [Removed for Content], and you say we are fine O.o

[Mirdo]

<P>Milosis,</P> <P>Those parses would put you on a par with our Brigands and swashies some fights and below their zonewide averages - they both bring much more to a raid, that's the point some of us are trying to make. Why bring a Ranger for 1-1.4k when you can bring a swashy, Brigand, Conj etc who all bring more utility and equal or greater DPS to the raid?</P> <P>Last night in Lyceum our Conj's were parsing in the 1.6 to 1.8k range on many fights. I think wizard zonewide was something like 1.3-1.4k. The person that really struggled was our Assassin who had bad lag yet was still managing around 1k - he's usually in the 1.6 to 2k range.</P> <P>How can you say 1500 "isn't so hard" if you can't achieve it yourself? How do you know 1500 zonewide is viable ?</P> <P>Mirdo.</P>

[LoreLady]

Thats hardly zone wide.. And you hardly proved your point.. Gnorbl is easy to peak high dps for any class.. Hell, last time we did that mob the fight lasted a minute or so.. And, our zerker peaked at 2k dps there, assassin 1.7k, myself 1.6k, Swash 2kish... Gnorbl is a fight  where the dps numbers are GOING to be high for any class.. Our class is ballanced on AE with assassins, so our dps is going to average pretty high.While I thank you for your parses, your parsings also show what we have been agreeing with.. Also, your being outdamaged by a monk in many fights. And if it were straight whining there would be no evidence, nothing but opinion put forward.. There is plenty of evidence put forward, there is plenty of non rangers comming forward.. The top raidguild in this game has come forward. If I were to make a court case with all these factors comming forward, id win that court case..

[Jay]

<DIV>Well hey, at least he labeled his whining as such. GG!</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm off to go "relearn" my ranger... OMG look! There's all these l33t DPS skillz in my CA list I didn't even know about! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[leafnin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Skaer,</P> <P>You can spike 1500 and it's fine?  You may or may not know your class but it's obvious you don't know the other classes.  What utility can possibly be brought that isn't done by X number of classes already?  They also have the potential to either beat us regularly (Sin, etc) or have the potential to match us and bring more utility (Rogues, etc).  Most Rangers don't want another classes job.  I certainly don't want alittle bit of everything but not enough to be useful.  Predators are meant to do top tier damage on average and in extreme over a spread of different situations.  You may be happy with averge top end potential some of us aren't.</P> <P> </P> <P>Falcon/Peregrian</P>

[NovacaineExpre]

nothing like another rangers learn2play thread.  If you think 1500 DPS in on one fight means rangers are fine learn2read.  Check the other 100 threads that have parses where 4 other classes are hitting that and higher.  Ya I have hit 1700 DPS before on 1 fight, probably cuz I got lucky with crits.  But I still suck.

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> leafnin wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <DIV>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But on a serious note...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Skaer,</P> <P>You can spike 1500 and it's fine?  You may or may not know your class but it's obvious you don't know the other classes.  What utility can possibly be brought that isn't done by X number of classes already?  They also have the potential to either beat us regularly (Sin, etc) or have the potential to match us and bring more utility (Rogues, etc).  Most Rangers don't want another classes job.  I certainly don't want alittle bit of everything but not enough to be useful.  Predators are meant to do top tier damage on average and in extreme over a spread of different situations.  You may be happy with averge top end potential some of us aren't.</P> <P> </P> <P>Falcon/Peregrian</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>And again, I mentioned whining about utility would be more productive, since we have none.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and I know plenty about other classes, since I can give you a running description of what almost every class buffs/debuffs and have played several characters in raid envoirnments, to include a Dirge, a Conjuror, a Berserker, a Mystic and an Inquisitor. I've also seen a particular Swashbuckler with almost no buffs comparative to me sitting with a 74% DPS increase from a Coercer push competitively with me during a pickup raid, and their [Removed for Content] get a ton of debuffing power, compared to our Heat, Deflection, and Defense debuffs.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1500 is hardly spike DPS, and that parse had a bunch of people slacking, for example the swashbuckler not being top nearly every encounter. In relation to the parse, if I wanted to glorify my DPS I could have dug up several named encounters where I have done exceptionally well, to counter most rangers complaints of our lack of DPS wherin the lack of ranger useability lies within our lack of Utility. ( The 1500 comment was merely there to establish a base for those rangers who come here and post and whine about the inability or difficulty to break 1k or 1.2k, since they're still relying on the sit back and shoot arrows only for DPS, instead of moving in and hitting with Melee abilities(Or haven't figured out that you shouldn't clear all your ranged abilities then clear all your melee and hope you can auto attack for a little bit of damage while timers reset), although Ranger DPS is mostly on reliance from bow Auto-shots, which warrior classes could typically hit just as hard with their bows as we do with our bows.)</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Despite a 2k heat buff that Conjurors love, and our Deflection debuff that's pretty much unique to Rangers and Guardians, we almost provide no utility at all. (Oh and our [Removed for Content] little hawk that leeches hate, and has to be cancled or run its course in between AEs).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also LoreLady, our monk has that satchel comparative to the Tarinax bow, as well was in a group where his DPS was constantly sitting around 100%, with a double strike AA and unarmed, and 100% haste/DPS, he was typcally hitting with throwing knives or whatever for 1.2-1.8k or so every 1.3 seconds or something rediculous like that, and if you took into point the lack of DPS of the other classes that should have been parsing much higher, since the raid DPS should have been higher in itself, would my DPS not have increased as well? and in relation to the thread did I mention being grouped with a troubador and a fury? The fury whom gave Agitate to a brigand and Vim to myself, such a dream group.(Not saying I didn't enjoy the fury, but the lack of a DPS mod was sort of saddening) Besides that the main point of the post in that thread was to show where I was placing compared to raid DPS, even if a majority of the raid members were slacking. </DIV><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:47 AM</span>

[Lexan]

<DIV>Again post a zone wide parse with some proof not a single target..........</DIV>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<div></div> <div> <blockquote> <hr> leafnin wrote: <div></div> <blockquote> <hr> xMiLoSiSx wrote: <div></div> <div>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</div> <div> </div> <div>But on a serious note...</div> <div> </div> <div>I just got beat by a brawler dueling with ranged attacks only....</div> <div> </div> <div>Aren't we supposed to be the superior ranged class? [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] SONY!!!!</div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Skaer,</p> <p>You can spike 1500 and it's fine?  You may or may not know your class but it's obvious you don't know the other classes.  What utility can possibly be brought that isn't done by X number of classes already?  They also have the potential to either beat us regularly (Sin, etc) or have the potential to match us and bring more utility (Rogues, etc).  Most Rangers don't want another classes job.  I certainly don't want alittle bit of everything but not enough to be useful.  Predators are meant to do top tier damage on average and in extreme over a spread of different situations.  You may be happy with averge top end potential some of us aren't.</p> <p>Falcon/Peregrian</p> <hr> </blockquote>And again, I mentioned whining about utility would be more productive, since we have none.<font color="#ff0000">Cept were a damage class.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>and I know plenty about other classes, since I can give you a running description of what almost every class buffs/debuffs and have played several characters in raid envoirnments, to include a Dirge, a Conjuror, a Berserker, a Mystic and an Inquisitor. I've also seen a particular Swashbuckler with almost no buffs comparative to me sitting with a 74% DPS increase from a Coercer push competitively with me during a pickup raid, and their [Removed for Content] get a ton of debuffing power, compared to our Heat, Deflection, and Defense debuffs.<font color="#ff0000">Ok, you know about other classes, but you just stated exaccly what all these threads are about.. You have a 74% dps increase, among other buffs, and you get owned.. And, I do note the word "pickup raid" i that sentance.. That word alone makes me shudder.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>1500 is hardly spike DPS, and that parse had a bunch of people slacking, for example the swashbuckler not being top nearly every encounter. In relation to the parse, if I wanted to glorify my DPS I could have dug up several named encounters where I have done exceptionally well, to counter most rangers complaints of our lack of DPS wherin the lack of ranger useability lies within our lack of Utility. ( The 1500 comment was merely there to establish a base for those rangers who come here and post and whine about the inability or difficulty to break 1k or 1.2k, since they're still relying on the sit back and shoot arrows only for DPS, instead of moving in and hitting with Melee abilities(Or haven't figured out that you shouldn't clear all your ranged abilities then clear all your melee and hope you can auto attack for a little bit of damage while timers reset), although Ranger DPS is mostly on reliance from bow Auto-shots, which warrior classes could typically hit just as hard with their bows as we do with our bows.)<font color="#ff0000">Umm, an average of 1.2k dps.. And spiking it to 1.5k is a spike <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And, you can glorify a ranger all you want and give me zone wide parsings.. Im looking to be proven wrong, im looking for a ranger who an hit disso's average dps.. Or even come close.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>Despite a 2k heat buff that Conjurors love, and our Deflection debuff that's pretty much unique to Rangers and Guardians, we almost provide no utility at all. (Oh and our [Removed for Content] little hawk that leeches hate, and has to be cancled or run its course in between AEs).</div> <div> <font color="#ff0000">Again, were a damage class. This is why we compare ourselves to wizards, and assassins.. Not swashbucklers, and summoners.</font></div> <div> </div> <div>Also LoreLady, our monk has that satchel comparative to the Tarinax bow, as well was in a group where his DPS was constantly sitting around 100%, with a double strike AA and unarmed, and 100% haste/DPS, he was typcally hitting with throwing knives or whatever for 1.2-1.8k or so every 1.3 seconds or something rediculous like that, and if you took into point the lack of DPS of the other classes that should have been parsing much higher, since the raid DPS should have been higher in itself, would my DPS not have increased as well? and in relation to the thread did I mention being grouped with a troubador and a fury? The fury whom gave Agitate to a brigand and Vim to myself, such a dream group.(Not saying I didn't enjoy the fury, but the lack of a DPS mod was sort of saddening) Besides that the main point of the post in that thread was to show where I was placing compared to raid DPS, even if a majority of the raid members were slacking.<font color="#ff0000">Arent you proving my point in this statement?</font> </div><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class="date_text">08-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">09:47 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote></div>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>And again, I mentioned whining about utility would be more productive, since we have none.<FONT color=#ff0000>Cept were a damage class. <FONT color=#0000ff>But assassins have utility.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and I know plenty about other classes, since I can give you a running description of what almost every class buffs/debuffs and have played several characters in raid envoirnments, to include a Dirge, a Conjuror, a Berserker, a Mystic and an Inquisitor. I've also seen a particular Swashbuckler with almost no buffs comparative to me sitting with a 74% DPS increase from a Coercer push competitively with me during a pickup raid, and their [Removed for Content] get a ton of debuffing power, compared to our Heat, Deflection, and Defense debuffs.<FONT color=#ff0000>Ok, you know about other classes, but you just stated exaccly what all these threads are about.. You have a 74% dps increase, among other buffs, and you get owned.. And, I do note the word "pickup raid" i that sentance.. That word alone makes me shudder. <FONT color=#3333ff>Parsing competively doesn't mean owned, and the parses were typically sitting around 1.5k + on a Relic run I decided I'd help out on since my timer was down and my friends needed some extra DPS.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1500 is hardly spike DPS, and that parse had a bunch of people slacking, for example the swashbuckler not being top nearly every encounter. In relation to the parse, if I wanted to glorify my DPS I could have dug up several named encounters where I have done exceptionally well, to counter most rangers complaints of our lack of DPS wherin the lack of ranger useability lies within our lack of Utility. ( The 1500 comment was merely there to establish a base for those rangers who come here and post and whine about the inability or difficulty to break 1k or 1.2k, since they're still relying on the sit back and shoot arrows only for DPS, instead of moving in and hitting with Melee abilities(Or haven't figured out that you shouldn't clear all your ranged abilities then clear all your melee and hope you can auto attack for a little bit of damage while timers reset), although Ranger DPS is mostly on reliance from bow Auto-shots, which warrior classes could typically hit just as hard with their bows as we do with our bows.)<FONT color=#ff0000>Umm, an average of 1.2k dps.. And spiking it to 1.5k is a spike <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And, you can glorify a ranger all you want and give me zone wide parsings.. Im looking to be proven wrong, im looking for a ranger who an hit disso's average dps.. Or even come close. <FONT color=#0000ff>Did you read the entire sentence, if you were you'd learn I wasn't referring to MY DPS, you're playing a misinformed devils advocate, the worst kind.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Despite a 2k heat buff that Conjurors love, and our Deflection debuff that's pretty much unique to Rangers and Guardians, we almost provide no utility at all. (Oh and our [Removed for Content] little hawk that leeches hate, and has to be cancled or run its course in between AEs).</DIV> <DIV> <FONT color=#ff0000>Again, were a damage class. This is why we compare ourselves to wizards, and assassins.. Not swashbucklers, and summoners. <FONT color=#0000ff>Seeing as these are the 2 highest DPSing class groups when played correctly, yes, it should be a fair comparison.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Also LoreLady, our monk has that satchel comparative to the Tarinax bow, as well was in a group where his DPS was constantly sitting around 100%, with a double strike AA and unarmed, and 100% haste/DPS, he was typcally hitting with throwing knives or whatever for 1.2-1.8k or so every 1.3 seconds or something rediculous like that, and if you took into point the lack of DPS of the other classes that should have been parsing much higher, since the raid DPS should have been higher in itself, would my DPS not have increased as well? and in relation to the thread did I mention being grouped with a troubador and a fury? The fury whom gave Agitate to a brigand and Vim to myself, such a dream group.(Not saying I didn't enjoy the fury, but the lack of a DPS mod was sort of saddening) Besides that the main point of the post in that thread was to show where I was placing compared to raid DPS, even if a majority of the raid members were slacking.<FONT color=#ff0000>Arent you proving my point in this statement?</FONT>  <FONT color=#3300ff>Did you read any of it?</FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <SPAN class=date_text>08-04-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:47 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>

[Lexan]

Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Where???  I think you posted a 1200ish average.  But...... your saying you can average 1500 where is this parse?  I can average 1400-1500 on my zerker and its been posted!  Im just saying if you can do it show me!!!!</P> <P>I feel were about 300dps below that of a assassin.  I dont think that rangers are terribly [Removed for Content] there just not at assassin level.  Imo we should be averageing about 200-300 more dps per encounter.</P>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<div></div><font color="#0000ff"></font><font color="#0000ff"></font> <blockquote> <hr> LoreLady wrote: <div> <blockquote> <div>And again, I mentioned whining about utility would be more productive, since we have none.<font color="#ff0000">Cept were a damage class. <font color="#0000ff">But assassins have utility.</font></font></div> <div> </div> <div>and I know plenty about other classes, since I can give you a running description of what almost every class buffs/debuffs and have played several characters in raid envoirnments, to include a Dirge, a Conjuror, a Berserker, a Mystic and an Inquisitor. I've also seen a particular Swashbuckler with almost no buffs comparative to me sitting with a 74% DPS increase from a Coercer push competitively with me during a pickup raid, and their [Removed for Content] get a ton of debuffing power, compared to our Heat, Deflection, and Defense debuffs.<font color="#ff0000">Ok, you know about other classes, but you just stated exaccly what all these threads are about.. You have a 74% dps increase, among other buffs, and you get owned.. And, I do note the word "pickup raid" i that sentance.. That word alone makes me shudder. <font color="#3333ff">Parsing competively doesn't mean owned, and the parses were typically sitting around 1.5k + on a Relic run I decided I'd help out on since my timer was down and my friends needed some extra DPS.</font></font></div> <div> </div> <div>1500 is hardly spike DPS, and that parse had a bunch of people slacking, for example the swashbuckler not being top nearly every encounter. In relation to the parse, if I wanted to glorify my DPS I could have dug up several named encounters where I have done exceptionally well, to counter most rangers complaints of our lack of DPS wherin the lack of ranger useability lies within our lack of Utility. ( The 1500 comment was merely there to establish a base for those rangers who come here and post and whine about the inability or difficulty to break 1k or 1.2k, since they're still relying on the sit back and shoot arrows only for DPS, instead of moving in and hitting with Melee abilities(Or haven't figured out that you shouldn't clear all your ranged abilities then clear all your melee and hope you can auto attack for a little bit of damage while timers reset), although Ranger DPS is mostly on reliance from bow Auto-shots, which warrior classes could typically hit just as hard with their bows as we do with our bows.)<font color="#ff0000">Umm, an average of 1.2k dps.. And spiking it to 1.5k is a spike <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And, you can glorify a ranger all you want and give me zone wide parsings.. Im looking to be proven wrong, im looking for a ranger who an hit disso's average dps.. Or even come close. <font color="#0000ff">Did you read the entire sentence, if you were you'd learn I wasn't referring to MY DPS, you're playing a misinformed devils advocate, the worst kind.<font color="#ffff00">I was refering to your earlier parsings, you hold about a 1.2k dps average from the parsings I have seen.</font></font></font></div> <div> </div> <div>Despite a 2k heat buff that Conjurors love, and our Deflection debuff that's pretty much unique to Rangers and Guardians, we almost provide no utility at all. (Oh and our [Removed for Content] little hawk that leeches hate, and has to be cancled or run its course in between AEs).</div> <div> <font color="#ff0000">Again, were a damage class. This is why we compare ourselves to wizards, and assassins.. Not swashbucklers, and summoners. <font color="#0000ff">Seeing as these are the 2 highest DPSing class groups when played correctly, yes, it should be a fair comparison.<font color="#ffff00">And, I have proven the point of there is an imballance in CA DPS between rangers and assassins.. REad the post the gap pt 2.</font></font></font></div> <div> </div><div> The fury whom gave Agitate to a brigand and Vim to myself, such a dream group.(Not saying I didn't enjoy the fury, but the lack of a DPS mod was sort of saddening) Besides that the main point of the post in that thread was to show where I was placing compared to raid DPS, even if a majority of the raid members were slacking.<font color="#ff0000">Arent you proving my point in this statement?</font>  <font color="#3300ff">Did you read any of it?<font color="#ffff00">And yes I did, why do you think the fury put agitate on the brigand in the first place? Double attack gives more melee dps than rangers do, and agitate is melee only. <b>Auto attack is not the issue.</b></font></font></div> <p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class="date_text">08-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:47 AM</span></p> <hr> </blockquote></div></blockquote><hr></blockquote></div>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<P>It was 1283 average 3 grouping lyceum, although we had 21 people at last mob.</P> <P>It also didn't help that some people in raid just turn on auto attack and go AFK.</P>

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also i was talking to the rest of disso the other day and i dont think i would have a problem hanging in the 1200-1300 range for a zone wide parse in labs or lyceum!  The problem is i think even with a 1200-1300 average the assassin, summoners, wizard, zerker, rogues (apoligize if i missed one im typeing really fast) would still there or above.  Honestly with a few averageing closer to the 1800-2k range.

[xMiLoSiSx]

<FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996699></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><FONT color=#0000ff></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><BR>And again, I mentioned whining about utility would be more productive, since we have none.<FONT color=#ff0000>Cept were a damage class. <FONT color=#0000ff>But assassins have utility.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>and I know plenty about other classes, since I can give you a running description of what almost every class buffs/debuffs and have played several characters in raid envoirnments, to include a Dirge, a Conjuror, a Berserker, a Mystic and an Inquisitor. I've also seen a particular Swashbuckler with almost no buffs comparative to me sitting with a 74% DPS increase from a Coercer push competitively with me during a pickup raid, and their [Removed for Content] get a ton of debuffing power, compared to our Heat, Deflection, and Defense debuffs.<FONT color=#ff0000>Ok, you know about other classes, but you just stated exaccly what all these threads are about.. You have a 74% dps increase, among other buffs, and you get owned.. And, I do note the word "pickup raid" i that sentance.. That word alone makes me shudder. <FONT color=#3333ff>Parsing competively doesn't mean owned, and the parses were typically sitting around 1.5k + on a Relic run I decided I'd help out on since my timer was down and my friends needed some extra DPS.</FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>1500 is hardly spike DPS, and that parse had a bunch of people slacking, for example the swashbuckler not being top nearly every encounter. In relation to the parse, if I wanted to glorify my DPS I could have dug up several named encounters where I have done exceptionally well, to counter most rangers complaints of our lack of DPS wherin the lack of ranger useability lies within our lack of Utility. ( The 1500 comment was merely there to establish a base for those rangers who come here and post and whine about the inability or difficulty to break 1k or 1.2k, since they're still relying on the sit back and shoot arrows only for DPS, instead of moving in and hitting with Melee abilities(Or haven't figured out that you shouldn't clear all your ranged abilities then clear all your melee and hope you can auto attack for a little bit of damage while timers reset), although Ranger DPS is mostly on reliance from bow Auto-shots, which warrior classes could typically hit just as hard with their bows as we do with our bows.)<FONT color=#ff0000>Umm, an average of 1.2k dps.. And spiking it to 1.5k is a spike <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. And, you can glorify a ranger all you want and give me zone wide parsings.. Im looking to be proven wrong, im looking for a ranger who an hit disso's average dps.. Or even come close. <FONT color=#0000ff>Did you read the entire sentence, if you were you'd learn I wasn't referring to MY DPS, you're playing a misinformed devils advocate, the worst kind.<FONT color=#ffff00>I was refering to your earlier parsings, you hold about a 1.2k dps average from the parsings I have seen.   </FONT></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#996666>-- Would you agree that the raid Parse was aweful low, and that many of the classes appeared to be slacking? Highly possible due to the fact that we were three grouping a majority of the zone, the parse was mearly used to show where I was placing on raid parses.<BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Despite a 2k heat buff that Conjurors love, and our Deflection debuff that's pretty much unique to Rangers and Guardians, we almost provide no utility at all. (Oh and our [Removed for Content] little hawk that leeches hate, and has to be cancled or run its course in between AEs).</DIV> <DIV> <FONT color=#ff0000>Again, were a damage class. This is why we compare ourselves to wizards, and assassins.. Not swashbucklers, and summoners. <FONT color=#0000ff>Seeing as these are the 2 highest DPSing class groups when played correctly, yes, it should be a fair comparison.<FONT color=#ffff00>And, I have proven the point of there is an imballance in CA DPS between rangers and assassins.. REad the post the gap pt 2. -- I never said there wasn't an imbalance.</FONT></FONT><BR></FONT></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The fury whom gave Agitate to a brigand and Vim to myself, such a dream group.(Not saying I didn't enjoy the fury, but the lack of a DPS mod was sort of saddening) Besides that the main point of the post in that thread was to show where I was placing compared to raid DPS, even if a majority of the raid members were slacking.<FONT color=#ff0000>Arent you proving my point in this statement?</FONT>  <FONT color=#3300ff>Did you read any of it?<FONT color=#ffff00>And yes I did, why do you think the fury put agitate on the brigand in the first place? Double attack gives more melee dps than rangers do, and agitate is melee only. <B>Auto attack is not the issue. <FONT color=#996666>Thanks, I was clueless that agitate was a 37% or so DPS and Haste buff that procs 10% off a melee hit. I was more stating where the buffs were placed, since the additional str and agi gives more power and allows me to slide on int geat to increase proc damage.</FONT></B></FONT></FONT><FONT color=#3300ff><FONT color=#ffff00><BR></FONT></FONT></DIV> <P>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <SPAN class=date_text>08-04-2006</SPAN><SPAN class=time_text>09:47 AM</SPAN><BR></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR></DIV><BR><BR></BLOCKQUOTE>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also i was talking to the rest of disso the other day and i dont think i would have a problem hanging in the 1200-1300 range for a zone wide parse in labs or lyceum!  The problem is i think even with a 1200-1300 average the assassin, summoners, wizard, zerker, rogues (apoligize if i missed one im typeing really fast) would still there or above.  Honestly with a few averageing closer to the 1800-2k range.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Look how the rest of the raid was parsing, would not I have parsed higher if they weren't slacking their [Removed for Content] off ?

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <P>It was 1283 average 3 grouping lyceum, although we had 21 people at last mob.</P> <P>It also didn't help that some people in raid just turn on auto attack and go AFK.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Sorry man and i am not trying to start a fight with as you are probably a good ranger.  The reason i dont like what they've dont to rangers is you  would never beat the summoners, assassin's, or wizard in dissolution unless they died on every single encounter in any raid in t7.  Combined with half of the time you'd get beaten by the rogue, warlock, bruiser, and me (zerker).</P> <P>Edit:  Hell i would just be happy to see a ranger out parse me on my zerker lol.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P>Again if i missed one of you high parsen [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]'s im sorry <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Lexani- on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:46 AM</span>

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also i was talking to the rest of disso the other day and i dont think i would have a problem hanging in the 1200-1300 range for a zone wide parse in labs or lyceum!  The problem is i think even with a 1200-1300 average the assassin, summoners, wizard, zerker, rogues (apoligize if i missed one im typeing really fast) would still there or above.  Honestly with a few averageing closer to the 1800-2k range.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Look how the rest of the raid was parsing, would not I have parsed higher if they weren't slacking their [Removed for Content] off ?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Then get us another parse that one is well over a week old isnt it?</P> <P><BR> </P>

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Skaer until you post a zone-wide raid parse your comments arent worth reading as far as <STRONG>ranger dps in a raid is concerned</STRONG>.  So this week turn on the parser for the entire zone.........not just the mob no one can ae without killing adds that heal the mob!<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I started the post with a raid average, and included each named fight. Why are you saying I didn't do so?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Also i was talking to the rest of disso the other day and i dont think i would have a problem hanging in the 1200-1300 range for a zone wide parse in labs or lyceum!  The problem is i think even with a 1200-1300 average the assassin, summoners, wizard, zerker, rogues (apoligize if i missed one im typeing really fast) would still there or above.  Honestly with a few averageing closer to the 1800-2k range.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Look how the rest of the raid was parsing, would not I have parsed higher if they weren't slacking their [Removed for Content] off ?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Man i just dont see why in the hell with like 5 hours of total raiding a week anyone slacks lol.  Disso dosent slack man we burn [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up.  I just always think that the rest of the gameing world would pay attention but i guess i just forget were actually here to be serious.

[Lexan]

<DIV>Man ive posted like 4 times in a row without another response but look at it like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker = 1000-1500dps for the entire raid zone.  Can tank the zone.  Adds 120ish str to group members (depending on spell tier).  Gives everyone dps and haste buffs.  Has a group mit buff 30sec out of every 90sec.  Has a solo target avoidance buff.  Can intercede dmg.  Can tank the entire ZONE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ranger = 1000-1300dps for the entire raid zone.  Can pull a mob with no line of sight.  Has a deagro bird 30seconds out of every 90seconds.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which one would you play????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<DIV>I'll see if I can coerce people into trying so I can show off a high zone average.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><p>Message Edited by xMiLoSiSx on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:04 PM</span>

[xMiLoSiSx]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> <DIV>Man ive posted like 4 times in a row without another response but look at it like this.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Zerker = 1000-1500dps for the entire raid zone.  Can tank the zone.  Adds 120ish str to group members (depending on spell tier).  Gives everyone dps and haste buffs.  Has a group mit buff 30sec out of every 90sec.  Has a solo target avoidance buff.  Can intercede dmg.  Can tank the entire ZONE.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ranger = 1000-1300dps for the entire raid zone.  Can pull a mob with no line of sight.  Has a deagro bird 30seconds out of every 90seconds.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Which one would you play????</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I typically parse much higher than 1k-1.3k.

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Lexani- wrote: <div>Man ive posted like 4 times in a row without another response but look at it like this.</div> <div> </div> <div>Zerker = 1000-1500dps for the entire raid zone.  Can tank the zone.  Adds 120ish str to group members (depending on spell tier).  Gives everyone dps and haste buffs.  Has a group mit buff 30sec out of every 90sec.  Has a solo target avoidance buff.  Can intercede dmg.  Can tank the entire ZONE.</div> <div> </div> <div>Ranger = 1000-1300dps for the entire raid zone.  Can pull a mob with no line of sight.  Has a deagro bird 30seconds out of every 90seconds.  </div> <div> </div> <div> </div> <div>Which one would you play????</div> <div> </div> <hr> </blockquote>I typically parse much higher than 1k-1.3k.<hr></blockquote>Okk, lets assume your a good ranger, theres alot of of them out there..  I parse 1kish -1.4kish.. Lets assume you have an average of 1.3k (it is achievable).. Now, the best ranger out there would parse around 1.5kish.. Now, heres the thing the best brigand/swash out there would parse around 1.8-1.9kish (looking at snark here <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) along with a swash and summoner.. The best wizards out there parse around 1.9-2kish average(illusive forisntance).. Show me a ranger that can average that high..The end result is, no matter what the buffs, items, group setup, player.. A ranger will never average that high due to the way our CA's are setup.. It does not allow for it. Im not saying overpower rangers so that a half geared ranger can hit 2k with ease.. All im saying is the best ranger out there should be up with the rest of them.</div>

[Tseri]

<P>This is what I was told last night.</P> <P> </P> <P>Rangers shouldn't do more damage because we have the advantage that we can maintain high DPS from ranged and not have to worry about AE's.</P> <P> </P> <P>:smileyindifferent:</P> <P> </P> <P>(edited...I forgot my little frowny guy...<3 the frowny guy)</P><p>Message Edited by Tseri on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[Jayad]

I guess it's good that we never have to joust in for melee because we have no melee CAs, then.

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Xney wrote:<div></div>I guess it's good that we never have to joust in for melee because we have no melee CAs, then.<hr></blockquote>For those who dont understand.. this is called sarcasm! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> (I know atleast one person will walk along here and think xney and the other one (sorry forget the name) are being serious)).</div>

[Carna]

<div></div>The chap is happy with the figure he's looking at compaired with the people he raids with. Some may feel it a moral outrage that he's happy with his performance, never-the-less he's happy with his performance. While the parses he provides might not be ideal, they are reasonable grounds for him to feel happy with how he's performing with his peers.I would like Rangers boosted because I'd like to betray my Assassin back to Ranger (which I might do anyhow).And people badly need to stop compairing parses across raids. It really doesn't matter what Swashbucklers are parsing in your raid compaired to the Rangers in his raid, it only matters how the Swashbucklers in his raid compair with him.There is a very credible arguement for enhancing the Ranger class. It only hurts that credibility to attempt to shred every counter-opinion with what amounts to pedantry.If it is not credible to post opinion without zone wide parses rather than single target parses then that cuts both ways and the "Rangers suck" threads will slim down considerably. The issues aren't black and white with Ranger performance. More importantly you're not about to convince the devs the issue is black and white because they believe their evidence suggests things are ok... best we settle on finding where Rangers perform ok and where they don't... maybe then the devs can look at the issues we think may be problematic and address them. The big picture looks ok to the devs. We need then to find out the bits that are flawed.We have presented the "we suck, we parse crap in raids" argument to the devs and from the top, they have point blank rejected the argument. Who sucks? Where do they suck? Under what circumstances do they suck? "We suck" is no longer helpful and needs to be dropped. Cetainly insisting somebody else sucks counter to them expressing content with  their performance needs to stop.These aren't sports teams we're cheering here. We're trying to resolve a problem.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Carnagh on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:53 AM</span>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div>The chap is happy with the figure he's looking at compaired with the people he raids with. Some may feel it a moral outrage that he's happy with his performance, never-the-less he's happy with his performance. While the parses he provides might not be ideal, they are reasonable grounds for him to feel happy with how he's performing with his peers.I would like Rangers boosted because I'd like to betray my Assassin back to Ranger (which I might do anyhow).And people badly need to stop compairing parses across raids. It really doesn't matter what Swashbucklers are parsing in your raid compaired to the Rangers in his raid, it only matters how the Swashbucklers in his raid compair with him.There is a very credible arguement for enhancing the Ranger class. It only hurts that credibility to attempt to shred every counter-opinion with what amounts to pedantry.If it is not credible to post opinion without zone wide parses rather than single target parses then that cuts both ways and the "Rangers suck" threads will slim down considerably. The issues aren't black and white with Ranger performance. More importantly you're not about to convince the devs the issue is black and white because they believe their evidence suggests things are ok... best we settle on finding where Rangers perform ok and where they don't... maybe then the devs can look at the issues we think may be problematic and address them. The big picture looks ok to the devs. We need then to find out the bits that are flawed.We have presented the "we suck, we parse crap in raids" argument to the devs and from the top, they have point blank rejected the argument. Who sucks? Where do they suck? Under what circumstances do they suck? "We suck" is no longer helpful and needs to be dropped. Cetainly insisting somebody else sucks counter to them expressing content with  their performance needs to stop.These aren't sports teams we're cheering here. We're trying to resolve a problem.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Carnagh on <span class="date_text">08-04-2006</span> <span class="time_text">11:53 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Im not disagreeing with you.. All I am saying.. Is find me a ranger under any circomstance that can average 1.8-1.9kish.. If hes happy about his DPS, by all means by happy and go play the game.. But dont accuse people of being whiners, this is a negitive post that the OP is making.. And the chance of someone replying back being all happy go lucky, likely isent going to happen.. A post like "I am doing great on my prase, im the top in my guild why is everyone complaining" is goign to put you in a better light than what the OP originally put.</div>

[Ishbu]

<blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<DIV>I'll see if I can coerce people into trying so I can show off a high zone average.</DIV><DIV</DIV><hr></blockquote>This excuse is a load of crap. Find me a zone wide parse where me, our necro, and our assassins are all really trying. You cant do it. Its because EVERYBODY in EVERY guild has to deal with some people afk or not trying or just auto attacking from time to time. It happens to everyone and they still get the parses they show. Some people may slack off more than others, but that is your guilds fault then if its happening to such an extreme as to ruin your parses.Furthermore I see you saying in previous posts, well we were only three grouping the zone. Congratulations, we 3 group everything. If its died, we've killed it with 20 or less. All our dps numbers are still there and if your good your still gonna blow [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] up. So enough with the excuses and other crap, lets see these zone wide parses or your great dps. For the record I am very familiar with your guild and know of their lower dps, so should you finally present us with a parse and you beat an assassin or something, Im honestly not going to be surprised because I guarentee the numbers you put out would put you below our wizard, conjuror, necromancer, asssasin 1, assasin 2, brigand 1, brigand 2, swashbuckler, berserker, and most likely our warlock as well.Its your class. I dont care if your the best ranger in the world, your not going to beat good players from many other classes. That is why rangers are broken. Your good dps isnt good compared to other classes that are much more valuable. You made this post trying to brag or something but even your bragging of a 1500 zone wide parse in lyceum is low, unimpressive, and not worth a raid slot.And as just a friendly tip, if your trying to parse impressively, your in the wrong guild. CL isnt really built for extreme dps and their top dps classes have always fallen a bit short.

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> xMiLoSiSx wrote:<BR> <FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996666></FONT><FONT color=#996699></FONT><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV> <BLOCKQUOTE> <DIV><FONT color=#3300ff><FONT color=#ffff00><B> <FONT color=#996666>Thanks, I was clueless that agitate was a 37% or so DPS and Haste buff that procs 10% off a melee hit. </FONT></B></FONT></FONT><BR> <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV></BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Nice thread.  Anyway, what is that?  App I Agitate?  At least get close to the numbers (57%) if you're going to use them to sound smug.

[Lexan]

Balarius this dude isnt out parseing you when you have the bow from Tarinax is he?

[Fait]

<P>To be fair, I will say that Skaer places in the top 3 or so on the parse pretty regularly, which is higher than most of the people Ishbu just listed (but only because Soul is afk most of the time =P).  </P> <P>Also to be fair, I was probably the Fury and probably put Agitate on the brig because Skaer asked for Vim...and it does 85 STR and AGI, and 10% chance to proc a 57% increase to DPS and increase attack speed by 57%.  It's kind of a pain for Agitate to be single-target now, but it is what it is...which is not the topic of this post.  :smileytongue:</P>

[Ishbu]

Agitate only proc's off melee anyways so while rangers do melee, its still more useful on the brigand.

[MystaSkrat]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fait68 wrote:<BR> <P>(paraphrased)</P> <P>To be fair, I will say that Skaer places higher than most of the people Ishbu just listed (but only because Soul is afk most of the time =P). </P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>We have no proof of that other than people saying so.  Oh, there's a zone wide parse of yours of LoA I think?  Where our summoners get 1800-2000 on for the zone, and most of the classes he said get 1500 or so...  Seriously, I want to see a ranger beating even half of the players Ishbu's talking about on a zone wide parse... any ranger.<BR><p>Message Edited by MystaSkratch on <span class=date_text>08-04-2006</span> <span class=time_text>04:04 PM</span>

[Carna]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Ishboozor wrote:And as just a friendly tip, if your trying to parse impressively, your in the wrong guild. CL isnt really built for extreme dps and their top dps classes have always fallen a bit short.<hr></blockquote>And that really doesn't matter. It doesn't matter if there are classes in some other guild doing twice as much DPS. All that matters is how the peers in his guild stack up with each other on his raids. Compairing them with the guild next door doesn't mean anything. Moreso, you actually know it doesn't mean anything leaving me wondering just what your agenda is.LoreLady, I agree with your comments about the tone of the OP. My concern is that an environment has been established whereby any counter from Rangers who don't agree with the current majority view will get torn up out of hand.... the only reason why it concerns me is it's likely to leave Rangers ignored by the devs.... there's a couple of Rangers who used to be notable posters around here that simply dont post here anymore because they followed the heretical line that Rangers don't suck.The lead dev himself presented parses and server wide ratios and was dimissed out of hand. His data had to be flawed. Or he had to be lying. Or he had to be simply a bad man.... because his experience is that Rangers don't suck.Anybody posting a favourable parse.... he's fabricating it... his parse isn't good enough... his guild suck... the people around him suck or are slacking... etc etc.... we had the lead mechanics dev posting parses here and that's exactly what we said to him.I <b>agree with you</b> I betrayed my Ranger to and Assassin... I just feel that we are ensuring on this forum the situation wont be fixed... there are Rangers posting on this forum favourable parses that they are happy with. But we seem to have adopted the position that every Ranger everywhere must suck.</div>

[Fait]

Posting a parse on the forum isn't really proof either; it would be easy enough to change it.  It doesn't really matter to me one way or another who parses what, I was (to quote an absent dorf) just sayin'.

[Ishbu]

Thats not true. I will parse very high in any group/raid assuming the players at least know how to play. That means you cant expect anyone to do good dps on a tank with no hate increasers and stuff like that.Certain players are just better at getting more dps out. A perfect example is some guy (dont remember the name) on butcherblock. His guild leader talked to me from time to time and then he talked to me. We changed his aa's and switched his spell order around a little bit. A few days later his guild leader sent me tells saying thank you over and over because the guy was doing like 300-400 more dps.Some people get it, many people dont.

[Fait]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Carnagh wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR><BR>My concern is that an environment has been established whereby any counter from Rangers who don't agree with the current majority view will get torn up out of hand.... the only reason why it concerns me is it's likely to leave Rangers ignored by the devs.... there's a couple of Rangers who used to be notable posters around here that simply dont post here anymore because they followed the heretical line that Rangers don't suck.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Was like that on the Fury board before DoF...I think I still have scars from saying that I liked playing a Fury.  /shrug I don't think there will ever be absolute balance in this game, nor do I necessarily think there should be...and people [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about it is the nature of the beast. 

[Balerius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Balarius this dude isnt out parseing you when you have the bow from Tarinax is he?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>sigh.  I was distracted and it was a bad night.  I joined the raid a little late and basically had no buffs except for some str and Vim until Vilucidae (whereupon I asked our brawler  "heyyyy...where's my dps buff?" and received the reply "ooops...it hasn't been on you all night".  So I got the dps buff for Vilucidae and promptly died to him during his first stance because I was slightly to his side and he did one of his little quarter-turn movements.   As I said, not one of my best nights.</P> <P>Having said that, Skaer does good dps.  I won't address his specific zone-wide average...he can do that (I actually don't have his info).</P> <P>Personally, I think it's irrelevant whether it's 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, or even 1500.  Whatever it is, it's considerably less than an assassins and only equal (at best) to a rogues.  Even that post by Lockeye showing ranger dps still had his artificially boosted ranger trailing the dps of assassins and rogues as reflected in the parses many have posted.</P> <P>We can try to compete on the basis of outstanding dps and little utility or we can try to compete on the basis decent dps and decent utility.  The former is the stated role of predators.  The latter is the role of rogues.  I see no reason to ask for something (utility) that would intrude on the role of other classes (rogues).  If we lobby for that solution, SoE would only give us some gimped utility to go with our gimped dps and we'd be no better off than we are now.</P>

[Lexan]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Balerius wrote:<BR> <BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Lexani- wrote:<BR> Balarius this dude isnt out parseing you when you have the bow from Tarinax is he?<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>sigh.  I was distracted and it was a bad night.  I joined the raid a little late and basically had no buffs except for some str and Vim until Vilucidae (whereupon I asked our brawler  "heyyyy...where's my dps buff?" and received the reply "ooops...it hasn't been on you all night".  So I got the dps buff for Vilucidae and promptly died to him during his first stance because I was slightly to his side and he did one of his little quarter-turn movements.   As I said, not one of my best nights.</P> <P>Having said that, Skaer does good dps.  I won't address his specific zone-wide average...he can do that (I actually don't have his info).</P> <P>Personally, I think it's irrelevant whether it's 1100, 1200, 1300, 1400, or even 1500.  Whatever it is, it's considerably less than an assassins and only equal (at best) to a rogues.  Even that post by Lockeye showing ranger dps still had his artificially boosted ranger trailing the dps of assassins and rogues as reflected in the parses many have posted.</P> <P>We can try to compete on the basis of outstanding dps and little utility or we can try to compete on the basis decent dps and decent utility.  The former is the stated role of predators.  The latter is the role of rogues.  I see no reason to ask for something (utility) that would intrude on the role of other classes (rogues).  If we lobby for that solution, SoE would only give us some gimped utility to go with our gimped dps and we'd be no better off than we are now.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Totally agree!</P>

[Crychtonn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Ishboozor wrote:<BR>Agitate only proc's off melee anyways so while rangers do melee, its still more useful on the brigand.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>^^^^^  This along with the laundry list of other group and single target buffs given out by other classes that have the same <EM>"Melee"</EM> only tag on then is a leading factor (shortage of high DR bows being another) in why rangers lag behind other classes.  It may not eliminate the gap but allowing all these proc's to work on both melee and ranged would sure narrow it down alot.</P> <P> </P>

[Tseri]

<DIV>No one's mad that people still like to play their Rangers.  I'd have to say that most of the Rangers that raid and post here still like their Rangers otherwise they'd have betrayed to assassins.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The irritating part comes when people that don't raid come in and say that there is nothing wrong.  Or people who are not experiencing the same content as the high end raiders saying nothing is wrong.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'm by no means saying that I'm high end.  Our first DT run is this weekend.  I usually parse second place on the chart, but when you consider that first place is above 2k with a fair regularity and I average around 1100-1200 and these numbers are from Assassin and Ranger, supposedly two sides of the predator, then something is wrong.</DIV>

[Echgar]

<blockquote><hr>xMiLoSiSx wrote:<div></div> <div>Enough whining about our DPS, just relearn your ranger. Pushing 1500 won't be so hard then. Just cry for some utility, it's more productive.</div><hr></blockquote>Making a thread with "whine" in the subject, then suggesting Rangers relearn how to play is something that is just going to incite the community (and already has been judging by my PM-box).  Closing this thread (<a href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=faq&message.id=25" target=_blank>Forum Rules of Conduct</a>)<div></div>