TRAPS!! that's how you fix us

[Karnacc]

<DIV>was reading post about Thorny trap and i had a thought: Why not make traps a ranger utility??</DIV> <DIV>By this i mean, give us 2 or 3 more traps with some usefulness to groups and raids. This would create something  useful but not duplicate something another class already does.</DIV> <DIV>The basis of raiding and grouping involve pulling a mob to the group(s) and then everybody wail on it. We'll why not let rangers be the masters of preparing the "tank spot" for the pull, to better defeat the mob.</DIV> <DIV>Example: </DIV> <DIV>Ranger stands with the main tank. Ranger sets "Trip-Wire" a few feat in front them moves back to group. tank pulls mob. When mob crosses trip wire he is knocked down and stunned for  4 secs allowing opening attacks with no aggro to those not within x meters of the mob ... group debuffs and get high dmg nukes/Cas off freely while tank builds hate.</DIV> <DIV>Of course this is just off the top of my head but some trap ideas are:</DIV> <DIV>Trip-wire --Stun trap - (see above)</DIV> <DIV>Engulfing smoke --Stiffle trap - useful against mobs with big opening aoes</DIV> <DIV>Poisoned Thorns --Dot trap - applies periodic poison</DIV> <DIV>Dazzling lights --mezz trap - limited mez on pulls of 1 add..last a few secs only</DIV> <DIV>Dibilitating Jaws --Debuff trap - decreases defense, parry, atk speed ect for short duration</DIV> <DIV>Hunter's Rage --Hate trap - applies "Blamed" to target mob (increases hate gain by 5%)</DIV> <DIV>and of course some dmg ones like Thorny trap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These would be situational and something the ranger could add for tough encounters that work in addition to our normal abilities.  To avoid making soloing too easy with this, make traps only affect epic targets (or heroic ^^^ +). To avoid PvP-PvE conflicts, trap could be visible to other players.. it's just up to them to avoid being lured across them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>This would also fit well with the ranger-hunter-outdoors-man theme.</DIV> <DIV>Thoughts?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Rexx Everythi]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Karnacc wrote:<div>was reading post about Thorny trap and i had a thought: Why not make traps a ranger utility??</div><div>By this i mean, give us 2 or 3 more traps with some usefulness to groups and raids. This would create something  useful but not duplicate something another class already does.</div><div>The basis of raiding and grouping involve pulling a mob to the group(s) and then everybody wail on it. We'll why not let rangers be the masters of preparing the "tank spot" for the pull, to better defeat the mob.</div><div>Example:</div><div>Ranger stands with the main tank. Ranger sets "Trip-Wire" a few feat in front them moves back to group. tank pulls mob. When mob crosses trip wire he is knocked down and stunned for  4 secs allowing opening attacks with no aggro to those not within x meters of the mob ... group debuffs and get high dmg nukes/Cas off freely while tank builds hate.</div><div>Of course this is just off the top of my head but some trap ideas are:</div><div>Trip-wire --Stun trap - (see above)</div><div>Engulfing smoke --Stiffle trap - useful against mobs with big opening aoes</div><div>Poisoned Thorns --Dot trap - applies periodic poison</div><div>Dazzling lights --mezz trap - limited mez on pulls of 1 add..last a few secs only</div><div>Dibilitating Jaws --Debuff trap - decreases defense, parry, atk speed ect for short duration</div><div>Hunter's Rage --Hate trap - applies "Blamed" to target mob (increases hate gain by 5%)</div><div>and of course some dmg ones like Thorny trap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>These would be situational and something the ranger could add for tough encounters that work in addition to our normal abilities.  To avoid making soloing too easy with this, make traps only affect epic targets (or heroic ^^^ +). To avoid PvP-PvE conflicts, trap could be visible to other players.. it's just up to them to avoid being lured across them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>This would also fit well with the ranger-hunter-outdoors-man theme.</div><div>Thoughts?</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Personally I love the idea, particularly the debuff trap. A short 8-10 second debuff, just enough time to give the support classes time to land the real debuffs, would be sweet. However, I wouldn't get your hopes up. Some of that stuff might be seen as encroaching on other classes' roles, especially crowd control abilities which is now the sole domain of enchanters, apparently.Still, it's nice to see I'm not the only one who would rather have more utility than just more raw DPS (not that I wouldn't mind having more of both hee). We're definitely the minority around here.<div></div>

[Mirdo]

<DIV>We really don't have much of a problem holding our own in groups.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The raid issue is that our DPS doesn't seem to scale well against that of other classes. I can't see the addition of traps (which btw will encroach on the territory occupied by Illus/Coerc) making us a more wanted class for a raid. If raids are already able to pull and beat content without these ideas what purpose do they have?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>They might have been nice to have from the start if the pulling options had been balanced with them in mind,  but there are so may ways of safely pulling a mob now with other class abilities they would be obsolete before introduction.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Most agree our main issue is a DPS scaling issue witnessed on raids. That's what needs to be looked at.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>M.</DIV>

[Teksun]

I would even be happy with something like this being on the new Ranger AA line...<div></div>

[LoreLady]

Good idea's.. However, its all utility and then we start stepping on other classes toes.. And, I dont want to get nerfed in the near future.

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Good idea's.. However, its all utility and then we start stepping on other classes toes.. And, I dont want to get nerfed in the near future.<hr></blockquote>I dont agree with this at all.Rangers are the only class that has no significant utility for the group that isnt supplied by another class.  Why should rangers be the only class not able to improve their group in a unique way or provide some unique benefit to the group/raid.  You woudlnt be stepping on anyones toes unless you gave another class defining ability to rangers.  Give rangers their own defining ability, point  blank ranged weapon use, group buffs of some kind, unique abilities for pulling mobs or helping to position mobs.  something.Its really nice to hope Sony will suddenly reverse their policy and start ballancing classes on how they perfom in high end raids, but a realist woudl conclude thats not going to happen.  Its sad, they need some kind of a boost.. but when no one can agree whether its 5%, 15% or 25% its tough to stand as a community and ask for it.  There is a HUGE difference between 15% and 25%.  Especially when the gap cant be stated accurately.  If its 25% in reality, but they go with 15% then your still 10% shy.  If its really 15% and they add 25% then your 10% over which is almost as much as the 15% the T1 classes were supposedly over and now Rangers are ahead of the pack.  It needs to be definately quantified as XX% and proven reliably. The buffing stuff on test would have been the way to prove this, a full 24 man raid put together of all beta buff'd toons with all the same kinds fo spells and weapons .. put the ranger and assassin in the same group with the same buffs and have  2 people who know the class really well (high end raiders) play them and do a run through say labs or something (given that everyones in basically mastercrafted - but that shouldnt be a problem for the uber guys right ?) ..i think that would give a good indication of what the true gap is... but i think its gonna be real hard to get that done... be nice though (also love to see some of the uber guilds do these zones they say are easy with just mastercrafted items and adept III's.. lol)</div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Good idea's.. However, its all utility and then we start stepping on other classes toes.. And, I dont want to get nerfed in the near future.<hr></blockquote>I dont agree with this at all.Rangers are the only class that has no significant utility for the group that isnt supplied by another class.  Why should rangers be the only class not able to improve their group in a unique way or provide some unique benefit to the group/raid.  You woudlnt be stepping on anyones toes unless you gave another class defining ability to rangers.  Give rangers their own defining ability, point  blank ranged weapon use, group buffs of some kind, unique abilities for pulling mobs or helping to position mobs.  something.Its really nice to hope Sony will suddenly reverse their policy and start ballancing classes on how they perfom in high end raids, but a realist woudl conclude thats not going to happen.  Its sad, they need some kind of a boost.. but when no one can agree whether its 5%, 15% or 25% its tough to stand as a community and ask for it.  There is a HUGE difference between 15% and 25%.  Especially when the gap cant be stated accurately.  If its 25% in reality, but they go with 15% then your still 10% shy.  If its really 15% and they add 25% then your 10% over which is almost as much as the 15% the T1 classes were supposedly over and now Rangers are ahead of the pack.  It needs to be definately quantified as XX% and proven reliably. The buffing stuff on test would have been the way to prove this, a full 24 man raid put together of all beta buff'd toons with all the same kinds fo spells and weapons .. put the ranger and assassin in the same group with the same buffs and have  2 people who know the class really well (high end raiders) play them and do a run through say labs or something (given that everyones in basically mastercrafted - but that shouldnt be a problem for the uber guys right ?) ..i think that would give a good indication of what the true gap is... but i think its gonna be real hard to get that done... be nice though (also love to see some of the uber guilds do these zones they say are easy with just mastercrafted items and adept III's.. lol)</div><hr></blockquote>Well, the reason I continue to say that we dont lack utility.. Is because when I look at my counterparts, and wizards I see whats what and why.. Assassins/wizards/rangers/warlocks have much less utility than swashbucklers/brigands/Conj's/Necro's.. While you can label a Sorc having more utility than preds, they also have the inability to take any kind of hits or offtank for any period of time. And, when I look at rangers and assassins, I still see utility as equal.. I know many people are quick to dismiss ranger abilities, however I am not.. Rangers have a much higher hate cap than assassins, and can boost the tanks hate, and lower the groups. Even the bird is usefull as its own utility, I tend to use it rather frequently on raids.. Although it can hurt my own DPS but it can save a raid (dispite what people think).. I use it when the main tank is at 10% or calling out there deathbuffs, lowering my groups hate for a period of time. While assassins have the ability to proc a non poison class, and transfer there hate 100% of the time. I dont consider rangers having more or less utility than our counterparts. (and i'll add more to this post later.. Im going afk to much in my group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Good idea's.. However, its all utility and then we start stepping on other classes toes.. And, I dont want to get nerfed in the near future.<hr></blockquote>I dont agree with this at all.Rangers are the only class that has no significant utility for the group that isnt supplied by another class.  Why should rangers be the only class not able to improve their group in a unique way or provide some unique benefit to the group/raid.  You woudlnt be stepping on anyones toes unless you gave another class defining ability to rangers.  Give rangers their own defining ability, point  blank ranged weapon use, group buffs of some kind, unique abilities for pulling mobs or helping to position mobs.  something.Its really nice to hope Sony will suddenly reverse their policy and start ballancing classes on how they perfom in high end raids, but a realist woudl conclude thats not going to happen.  Its sad, they need some kind of a boost.. but when no one can agree whether its 5%, 15% or 25% its tough to stand as a community and ask for it.  There is a HUGE difference between 15% and 25%.  Especially when the gap cant be stated accurately.  If its 25% in reality, but they go with 15% then your still 10% shy.  If its really 15% and they add 25% then your 10% over which is almost as much as the 15% the T1 classes were supposedly over and now Rangers are ahead of the pack.  It needs to be definately quantified as XX% and proven reliably. The buffing stuff on test would have been the way to prove this, a full 24 man raid put together of all beta buff'd toons with all the same kinds fo spells and weapons .. put the ranger and assassin in the same group with the same buffs and have  2 people who know the class really well (high end raiders) play them and do a run through say labs or something (given that everyones in basically mastercrafted - but that shouldnt be a problem for the uber guys right ?) ..i think that would give a good indication of what the true gap is... but i think its gonna be real hard to get that done... be nice though (also love to see some of the uber guilds do these zones they say are easy with just mastercrafted items and adept III's.. lol)</div><hr></blockquote>Well, the reason I continue to say that we dont lack utility.. Is because when I look at my counterparts, and wizards I see whats what and why.. Assassins/wizards/rangers/warlocks have much less utility than swashbucklers/brigands/Conj's/Necro's.. While you can label a Sorc having more utility than preds, they also have the inability to take any kind of hits or offtank for any period of time. And, when I look at rangers and assassins, I still see utility as equal.. I know many people are quick to dismiss ranger abilities, however I am not.. Rangers have a much higher hate cap than assassins, and can boost the tanks hate, and lower the groups. Even the bird is usefull as its own utility, I tend to use it rather frequently on raids.. Although it can hurt my own DPS but it can save a raid (dispite what people think).. I use it when the main tank is at 10% or calling out there deathbuffs, lowering my groups hate for a period of time. While assassins have the ability to proc a non poison class, and transfer there hate 100% of the time. I dont consider rangers having more or less utility than our counterparts. (and i'll add more to this post later.. Im going afk to much in my group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</div><hr></blockquote>Its not defining though is it?  Troubadors have goup hate reduction, why would you choose to take a ranger on a raid for theirs ?  Rangers need some defining utility that no other group has.  They also need buffs that enhance the group, almost all classes have something that ehnaces their group mates, or can be cast on an individual.</div>

[LoreLady]

Sirlutt, what server are you on.. This is going to run in circles..

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Sirlutt, what server are you on.. This is going to run in circles..<hr></blockquote>I'm on Oasis.Answer the questions though.  I've never seen anyone but you claim group hate reduction or hate reduction in general as a Ranger class defining skill.. or a skill that you'd specifically add a ranger to your roster to use.  I n fact in most sitations I've heard raid leaders state for Ranger to not use their bird unless asked to.</div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Sirlutt, what server are you on.. This is going to run in circles..<hr></blockquote>I'm on Oasis.Answer the questions though.  I've never seen anyone but you claim group hate reduction or hate reduction in general as a Ranger class defining skill.. or a skill that you'd specifically add a ranger to your roster to use.  I n fact in most sitations I've heard raid leaders state for Ranger to not use their bird unless asked to.</div><hr></blockquote>Damage is our class defining skill.. This is what its all about. People want dps, they ask a pred, or sorc.. If they want buffs, they get a bard.</div>

[Serventof Wrath]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR>Sirlutt, what server are you on.. This is going to run in circles..<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>I'm on Oasis.<BR><BR>Answer the questions though.  I've never seen anyone but you claim group hate reduction or hate reduction in general as a Ranger class defining skill.. or a skill that you'd specifically add a ranger to your roster to use.  I n fact in most sitations I've heard raid leaders state for Ranger to not use their bird unless asked to.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>My experience with the bird on raid:</P> <P>cast bird -> bird siphons hate from a dps group trying to crank out damage -> mob AE -> bird dies -> hate comes to me -> mob comes to me -> mob AEs while its in my area with the healers -> i die -> healers die -> raid wipes -> i appologize to raid -> get told where to stick that ^%$^ing bird -> I appologize again</P> <P>I don't consider wiping the raid to be our class defining utility <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I just wanna kill stuff quickly and get on to the next mob.  Is that too much to ask?</P> <P> </P> <P>edited cause i can't spell</P><p>Message Edited by Serventof Wrath on <span class=date_text>08-03-2006</span> <span class=time_text>12:50 PM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div>Damage is our class defining skill.. This is what its all about. People want dps, they ask a pred, or sorc.. If they want buffs, they get a bard.</div><hr>Somewhat true, but with a Sorc or Assassin you get more than damage.  With a ranger its all you get.  Sorcs and assassins have buffs they can place on other people, rangers dont.  Thats the point I am making.  If all Rangers are about is damage, well hell i can get that from a number of classes, they arent unique.  the other classes I get that damage from do other things aswell, why settle for a ranger, even if their DPS is in the same realm.I'm saying DPS, aaaaaaaaaaannnnd..and your saying  "No and then !"DPS Aaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd ?</blockquote></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:<div>Damage is our class defining skill.. This is what its all about. People want dps, they ask a pred, or sorc.. If they want buffs, they get a bard.</div><hr>Somewhat true, but with a Sorc or Assassin you get more than damage.  With a ranger its all you get.  Sorcs and assassins have buffs they can place on other people, rangers dont.  Thats the point I am making.  If all Rangers are about is damage, well hell i can get that from a number of classes, they arent unique.  the other classes I get that damage from do other things aswell, why settle for a ranger, even if their DPS is in the same realm.I'm saying DPS, aaaaaaaaaaannnnd..and your saying  "No and then !"DPS Aaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd ?</blockquote></div><hr></blockquote>Ya, I get what your saying.. I just try and not to put a measure on utility.. Now, heres a question for you.. If they added the ability to use auto attack while using stream of arrows.. (so inotherwords the ability to hold about 1.3-1.4kish dps total with our poisons/offensive) instead of what its at so that we have the option to use ranged combat and HOLD it there.. That would be more than enough for me.. The devs (or if I remember correctly) did state that they were looking into fixing or changing stream of arrows to be more usefull.</div>

[Sirlutt]

yeah stream does suck in its current form.  Used be hot when it proc'd tons.<div></div>

[LoreLady]

<div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:yeah stream does suck in its current form.  Used be hot when it proc'd tons.<div></div><hr></blockquote>All it needs is the auto attack thing and its good (that and a reduced cast time to 1s)</div>

[USAFJeeper]

<DIV>No thanks.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Rangers already do well in groups and solo.  On raids these would be worthless.  Can you see Tarinax getting stunned for 4 seconds when a raid can lay out 15K DPS?  I didnt  think so.</DIV>

[Saihung23]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Karnacc wrote:<BR> <DIV>was reading post about Thorny trap and i had a thought: Why not make traps a ranger utility??</DIV> <DIV>By this i mean, give us 2 or 3 more traps with some usefulness to groups and raids. This would create something  useful but not duplicate something another class already does.</DIV> <DIV>The basis of raiding and grouping involve pulling a mob to the group(s) and then everybody wail on it. We'll why not let rangers be the masters of preparing the "tank spot" for the pull, to better defeat the mob.</DIV> <DIV>Example: </DIV> <DIV>Ranger stands with the main tank. Ranger sets "Trip-Wire" a few feat in front them moves back to group. tank pulls mob. When mob crosses trip wire he is knocked down and stunned for  4 secs allowing opening attacks with no aggro to those not within x meters of the mob ... group debuffs and get high dmg nukes/Cas off freely while tank builds hate.</DIV> <DIV>Of course this is just off the top of my head but some trap ideas are:</DIV> <DIV>Trip-wire --Stun trap - (see above)</DIV> <DIV>Engulfing smoke --Stiffle trap - useful against mobs with big opening aoes</DIV> <DIV>Poisoned Thorns --Dot trap - applies periodic poison</DIV> <DIV>Dazzling lights --mezz trap - limited mez on pulls of 1 add..last a few secs only</DIV> <DIV>Dibilitating Jaws --Debuff trap - decreases defense, parry, atk speed ect for short duration</DIV> <DIV>Hunter's Rage --Hate trap - applies "Blamed" to target mob (increases hate gain by 5%)</DIV> <DIV>and of course some dmg ones like Thorny trap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>These would be situational and something the ranger could add for tough encounters that work in addition to our normal abilities.  To avoid making soloing too easy with this, make traps only affect epic targets (or heroic ^^^ +). To avoid PvP-PvE conflicts, trap could be visible to other players.. it's just up to them to avoid being lured across them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV>This would also fit well with the ranger-hunter-outdoors-man theme.</DIV> <DIV>Thoughts?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I really like this idea.  </P> <P>In response to some other concerns with something like this:</P> <P>Crossing the class line.</P> <P>How is it bad for us to step on the toes of other classes when they have stepped all over ours? Tanks doing damage dealer dps, utility doing damage dealer dps, summoners doing damage dealer dps (I have no idea where they fit in anymore).   I say as long as it is that way, then sure, give me something useful for my compadre's.</P> <P>Not being useful on raids.</P> <P>No, you cant have a ranger stunning or mezzing raid creatures...but why not debuff them?  Cant other classes debuff raid mobs? Epics?  What would be so wrong with us actually having some more viability on raids other than our damage and ability to survive an aoe that doesnt hit the healers too?</P> <P>In conclusion, I think the OP's ideas are a great idea.  The end all to ideas?  No. Everything can be tweaked and fine tuned to fit just right.  I also dont think the ideas we present mean much anymore.  But an old ranger can dream cant he?<BR></P>

[TaleraRis]

<DIV>Traps were fun on my Ranger in SWG. You could make all kinds.</DIV>

[leafnin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> LoreLady wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>Damage is our class defining skill.. This is what its all about. People want dps, they ask a pred, or sorc.. If they want buffs, they get a bard.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> Somewhat true, but with a Sorc or Assassin you get more than damage.  With a ranger its all you get.  Sorcs and assassins have buffs they can place on other people, rangers dont.  Thats the point I am making.  If all Rangers are about is damage, well hell i can get that from a number of classes, they arent unique.  the other classes I get that damage from do other things aswell, why settle for a ranger, even if their DPS is in the same realm.<BR><BR>I'm saying DPS, aaaaaaaaaaannnnd..<BR><BR>and your saying  "No and then !"<BR><BR>DPS Aaaaannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnddd ?<BR></BLOCKQUOTE></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Ya, I get what your saying.. I just try and not to put a measure on utility.. Now, heres a question for you.. If they added the ability to use auto attack while using stream of arrows.. (so inotherwords the ability to hold about 1.3-1.4kish dps total with our poisons/offensive) instead of what its at so that we have the option to use ranged combat and HOLD it there.. That would be more than enough for me.. The devs (or if I remember correctly) did state that they were looking into fixing or changing stream of arrows to be more usefull.<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hehe glad to see someone else picking this up finally. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Autoattack + ability to switch targets 1s or 1.5s I don't care which.  30s to 1min recast timer is fine as well that way you don't just have Rangers ignoring CA's and popping SoA and going AFK for the raid.  Just an Idea.  The trap idea makes me thing of Hunter/Sniper trappers from Ragnorok Online they were awesome on area denial.  If they didn't want you there you didn't go there.</P> <P>Sirlutt -- The ANNNNNDDD is the Hawk it's our answer to the poison buff Sin's have.  The problem is the unintentional side effects (breaking stealth and mob turning on the hawk).  Just fix the stealth thing and make it siphon without the ability to pull aggro and you have a raid wanted buff.  Yes it'll be the troub buff, but it's pretty much that way anyway just with Ranger flava.  Anything beyond that I personally don't want unless it enhances our damage some way.</P> <P> </P> <P>Falcon/Peregrian</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Pins]

So, basically you want to be an enchanter without buffs?

[Karnacc]

<DIV>to elaborate a bit more:</DIV> <DIV>What i'm getting at is I think we need something like traps to add to our usefulness and DPS since we cant get it any other way.</DIV> <DIV>Look at it like this: while we're doing our ranger damage the trap can be doing additional damage (like a pet). This would increase ranger dps and add some unique flavor at the same time.</DIV> <DIV>The debuff traps I mentioned may or may not be good in raid situations but may be useful to groups. Devs could make them situational to only affect epic x4 mobs or heroic ^ for example.</DIV>

[TimidMou]

<DIV>Actually I think he wants a hunter from ahem some other unspecified game. All we would need are pets and hunter's mark to complete the transformation <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Note: I actually think traps are a pretty good idea, implementation would be the key. Personally I've always wanted a "Healing Arrow", an arrow you could shoot at an ally to heal for a certain amt of hps but I can see that won't ever happen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><p>Message Edited by TimidMouse on <span class=date_text>08-23-2006</span> <span class=time_text>06:56 AM</span>

[leafnin]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TimidMouse wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually I think he wants a hunter from ahem some other unspecified game. All we would need are pets and hunter's mark to complete the transformation <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Note: I actually think traps are a pretty good idea, implementation would be the key. Personally I've always wanted a "Healing Arrow", an arrow you could shoot at an ally to heal for a certain amt of hps but I can see that won't ever happen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <P>Message Edited by TimidMouse on <SPAN class=date_text>08-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR><A href="http://www.ro-guardians.com/skill/snp.html" target=_blank>http://www.ro-guardians.com/skill/snp.html</A></P> <P>Actually the skill tree listed for the Sniper in RO is alittle closer to what's mentioned <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Not to mention their falcon actually does something!  </P> <P>Falcon/Peregrian</P>

[Rinio]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> TimidMouse wrote:<BR> <DIV>Actually I think he wants a hunter from ahem some other unspecified game. All we would need are pets and hunter's mark to complete the transformation <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>(Note: I actually think traps are a pretty good idea, implementation would be the key. <STRONG>Personally I've always wanted a "Healing Arrow", an arrow you could shoot at an ally to heal for a certain amt of hps but I can see that won't ever happen <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></STRONG></DIV> <P>Message Edited by TimidMouse on <SPAN class=date_text>08-23-2006</SPAN> <SPAN class=time_text>06:56 AM</SPAN><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>If you get a head shot is it a complete heal?</P> <P>Imo bring back the double damage ability for a mob that is standing still being tanked, we are rangers so why arent we masters of the ranged arts, Archer mastery and double damage stand still FTFW im not a summoner or a beastlord, i dont want a pet. </P> <P>Well, im about sick of these threads, seriously you wanta fix, go betray or Play EQ1 till the expac comes out and see if we get any lovin with those new AAs</P> <P>Not only can EQ1 rangers Double damage on a tanked mob, they have a double attack Ranged AA! and a triple attack 2 handed weapon AA, thats right they can use 2 handers</P>

[xandez]

<P>I have never understood why we can not use 2-handers... sigh.</P> <P>Atleast 2-h staves and such. Oh well <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P><BR>++Xan</P>

[Hylan]

I don't hit the forums much so I'm just seeing this but I like the idea.  The two main problems in the way are:a) In most groupings I've been on, most people are clueless about the abilities of rangers other than DPS.  I was on a level 80 raid and the MT/RL actually said "You mean that rangers can set traps too?" when I asked if he wanted me to drop one down.  I was floored.  A lot don't even know about the hawk's hate drain and I've had to advise RLs that you might not want to put all your rangers in one group because of that.b) I've noticed the higher the level and ability (regular/heroic/epic) the mob is, the more they tend to run around the trap so it doesn't go off.  What good are traps if the mobs avoid them anyway?If those problems are fixed, the extra traps will be a nice boon.  (

[DarkzFlamez]

<cite>Karnacc wrote:</cite><blockquote><div>was reading post about Thorny trap and i had a thought: Why not make traps a ranger utility??</div><div>By this i mean, give us 2 or 3 more traps with some usefulness to groups and raids. This would create something  useful but not duplicate something another class already does.</div><div>The basis of raiding and grouping involve pulling a mob to the group(s) and then everybody wail on it. We'll why not let rangers be the masters of preparing the "tank spot" for the pull, to better defeat the mob.</div><div>Example: </div><div>Ranger stands with the main tank. Ranger sets "Trip-Wire" a few feat in front them moves back to group. tank pulls mob. When mob crosses trip wire he is knocked down and stunned for  4 secs allowing opening attacks with no aggro to those not within x meters of the mob ... group debuffs and get high dmg nukes/Cas off freely while tank builds hate.</div><div>Of course this is just off the top of my head but some trap ideas are:</div><div>Trip-wire --Stun trap - (see above)</div><div>Engulfing smoke --Stiffle trap - useful against mobs with big opening aoes</div><div>Poisoned Thorns --Dot trap - applies periodic poison</div><div>Dazzling lights --mezz trap - limited mez on pulls of 1 add..last a few secs only</div><div>Dibilitating Jaws --Debuff trap - decreases defense, parry, atk speed ect for short duration</div><div>Hunter's Rage --Hate trap - applies "Blamed" to target mob (increases hate gain by 5%)</div><div>and of course some dmg ones like Thorny trap <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>These would be situational and something the ranger could add for tough encounters that work in addition to our normal abilities.  To avoid making soloing too easy with this, make traps only affect epic targets (or heroic ^^^ +). To avoid PvP-PvE conflicts, trap could be visible to other players.. it's just up to them to avoid being lured across them <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div>This would also fit well with the ranger-hunter-outdoors-man theme.</div><div>Thoughts?</div></blockquote><p>Honestly, I like the idea but I hate it at the same time. If by some miracle SOE did make this a ranger reality; I'm sure it would be a some monetary cost to us. Just like with our arrows, and our poisons.... I hate that I have to pay for my dps, and I would hate even more if I had to pay for my utility. Other classes can provide dps, and utility without paying it for it out of pocket... Now if SOE gave me an AA that gave me high quality arrows at no cost, or an AA that provide me with the highest proc'n poison in game that never ran out then that would be an improvement in my eyes. I just don't think we should have to buy dps or utility; and sadly I think this idea although a good one would end up being costly... Just my two cents.</p><p> Isyz : 71 Ranger of Crushbone</p>

[Ranja]

<cite>Mortred@Befallen wrote:</cite><blockquote><div><blockquote><hr />Sirlutt wrote:<div><blockquote><hr />LoreLady wrote:Good idea's.. However, its all utility and then we start stepping on other classes toes.. And, I dont want to get nerfed in the near future.<hr /></blockquote>I dont agree with this at all.Rangers are the only class that has no significant utility for the group that isnt supplied by another class.  Why should rangers be the only class not able to improve their group in a unique way or provide some unique benefit to the group/raid.  You woudlnt be stepping on anyones toes unless you gave another class defining ability to rangers.  Give rangers their own defining ability, point  blank ranged weapon use, group buffs of some kind, unique abilities for pulling mobs or helping to position mobs.  something.Its really nice to hope Sony will suddenly reverse their policy and start ballancing classes on how they perfom in high end raids, but a realist woudl conclude thats not going to happen.  Its sad, they need some kind of a boost.. but when no one can agree whether its 5%, 15% or 25% its tough to stand as a community and ask for it.  There is a HUGE difference between 15% and 25%.  Especially when the gap cant be stated accurately.  If its 25% in reality, but they go with 15% then your still 10% shy.  If its really 15% and they add 25% then your 10% over which is almost as much as the 15% the T1 classes were supposedly over and now Rangers are ahead of the pack.  It needs to be definately quantified as XX% and proven reliably. The buffing stuff on test would have been the way to prove this, a full 24 man raid put together of all beta buff'd toons with all the same kinds fo spells and weapons .. put the ranger and assassin in the same group with the same buffs and have  2 people who know the class really well (high end raiders) play them and do a run through say labs or something (given that everyones in basically mastercrafted - but that shouldnt be a problem for the uber guys right ?) ..i think that would give a good indication of what the true gap is... but i think its gonna be real hard to get that done... be nice though (also love to see some of the uber guilds do these zones they say are easy with just mastercrafted items and adept III's.. lol)</div><hr /></blockquote>Well, the reason I continue to say that we dont lack utility.. Is because when I look at my counterparts, and wizards I see whats what and why.. Assassins/wizards/rangers/warlocks have much less utility than swashbucklers/brigands/Conj's/Necro's.. While you can label a Sorc having more utility than preds, they also have the inability to take any kind of hits or offtank for any period of time. And, when I look at rangers and assassins, I still see utility as equal.. I know many people are quick to dismiss ranger abilities, however I am not.. Rangers have a much higher hate cap than assassins, and can boost the tanks hate, and lower the groups. Even the bird is usefull as its own utility, I tend to use it rather frequently on raids.. <b>Although it can hurt my own DPS but it can save a raid</b> (dispite what people think).. I use it when the main tank is at 10% or calling out there deathbuffs, lowering my groups hate for a period of time. While assassins have the ability to proc a non poison class, and transfer there hate 100% of the time. I dont consider rangers having more or less utility than our counterparts. (and i'll add more to this post later.. Im going afk to much in my group <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</div></blockquote>I highlighted the line I am interested. Why can the bird hurt your DPS? It is a DoT - that is damage. I use the bird as part of my opening rotation of CAs everytime it is up. I have never seen it hurt my DPS. It comes out before the engage call is made. Opening Series - Assist-> HO with Bloody reminder->Bird->AAMaybe I am missing something

[KniteShayd]

<p>I would like to have a rooting trap that lasts til cancelled, or as long as a mage root with same requirements.</p><p>Would be nice to bait a pk in pvp, falls in trap, range away.  Can't be OP because the pk <i>chose</i> to fight <i>knowing</i> you have this ability. Also the fact that it is situational, factors into usefulness of it. Coverage would be the best thing to replace it with.  Same goes with druids. Choose to fight one, you know they have snares and roots.  Risk vs reward.</p><p>In PvP, Assassins do have more utility than Rangers, but only for melee.</p><p>Personally, I would have rather have a self only HoT...</p>