Ranger Arrow Expense

[Ke]

<DIV>This issue may have been discussed before but it is time to do something about it.  I have worked along with many other rangers to acquire the level of 70 and I think it is quite unfair to price top level arrows so high as to make it impossible to carry them around on a daily basis.  My quiver holds about 1800 arrows, and SOE charges between 8-9 gold per stack of level 60 arrows, the highest level curently available.  The difference in my dps output between these arrows and the level 20 to 30 arrows I must use most of the time is huge.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>No other dps class must deal with this issue.  So far SOE has done nothing, nothing at all to address it.  I drop well over one plat to fill my quiver with arrows for raids and big zones but should not have to choose when to blow all my money on them and not have them at other times.  Any other dps class is at full power any other time with no expense.  And no my dps does not outrun all else with these arrows....it balances with the other dps classes.  The paper arrows I sometimes must buy because I am broke dont balance too dang well.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>At the least SOE can lower this crazy price.  Endless quivers for high level players are a great idea too.  I have heard that this would hurt the woodworkers....this is NOT a crafting issue.  This is a ranger issue.  We, after numerous nerfs, desere to have our dps running up to its full potential 24/7 just like casters or anyone else.  And not have to pay thru the bum for it. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>8-9 gold per 99 arrows and I use 100s per nite.  Get out your slide rule.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Adab, Level 70 Ranger, Unrest</DIV>

[Tasye]

How to fix Rangers.1) Arrows arranged by tier...each tier made into a quest. Quest completion returns one arrow.2) Endless quiver...result of a quest soloable by commonly geared Rangers.3) Stuns set back to 3s >4) Increase the proc rate of poisons5) 22% self heal max, 30 second timer.<div></div>

[Saihung23]

<DIV>I have found that since getting the last arrow summoning (reclaimed arrows) I have had no need to buy arrows...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Let me say REAL FAST that, yes, at lower levels (which is the majority of the game lol), I had to purchase arrows in order to do tier appropriate damage.  And I was using not 100's a night...but 1000's (approx. between 1200 and 2000 a night with a good group).  At the 50-62 range...I was spending, like most other rangers, around 1pp a night to not be laughed at in the damage department. So at lower levels I see the problems you describe...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But at level 62+....I dont spend money anymore...mainly because I dont go grouping every night.  Last night I fired over 2k arrows...my quivers empty almost, but I have extra summoned in my bank and house vault.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Tonight, when I log on, I will go harvesting and summoning the entire time...doing writs at the same time.  I will still use arrows...but not nearly the amount I normally do...</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>By this time tomorrow I will have my quiver restocked, harvests selling that I dont need, and my LFG flag up ready to go..</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Lower levels I see a problem...but not 62+</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am not saying you are wrong...but that my opinion is not quite the same.</DIV>

[Beldin_]

<blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<DIV>I have found that since getting the last arrow summoning (reclaimed arrows) I have had no need to buy arrows...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Let me say REAL FAST that, yes, at lower levels (which is the majority of the game lol), I had to purchase arrows in order to do tier appropriate damage.  And I was using not 100's a night...but 1000's (approx. between 1200 and 2000 a night with a good group).  At the 50-62 range...I was spending, like most other rangers, around 1pp a night to not be laughed at in the damage department. So at lower levels I see the problems you describe...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>But at level 62+....I dont spend money anymore...mainly because I dont go grouping every night.  Last night I fired over 2k arrows...my quivers empty almost, but I have extra summoned in my bank and house vault.</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Tonight, when I log on, I will go harvesting and summoning the entire time...doing writs at the same time.  I will still use arrows...but not nearly the amount I normally do...</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>By this time tomorrow I will have my quiver restocked, harvests selling that I dont need, and my LFG flag up ready to go..</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>Lower levels I see a problem...but not 62+</DIV><DIV> </DIV><DIV>I am not saying you are wrong...but that my opinion is not quite the same.</DIV><hr></blockquote>At Level 70 i still use the Level 42 summoning spell on master 2 all the time its up , and from time to time i still run out of arrows.So if they just increase the amount of summoned arrow, that the last as Adept 3 maybe summons 62 arrows, like the master 2 at the moment, then all would be fine for me <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Btw.: I remember when i was in Sanctum the last time with my ranger for claymore queststhat after 3-4 hours i ran out of arrows .. with the 1600 i went in and the 1500 i can summon in 4 hours, that must have been over 3000 arrows <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by Beldin_ on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:41 AM</span>

[Ke]

<DIV>We can talk about this all we want.  I want to hear from a power that be at SOE.  Lets hear it.  I know you are out there.  What is the reason behind this current path for rangers???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Talk to us.  We know a bit about what each of us thinks about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope you are listening.</DIV>

[Makaeleb]

<P>I am not sure what the ranger AA 1st ability is but it would have been cool for you guys to have an ability that gives say a 40% chance to salvage arrows from a downed mob. I could see shooting a mob and retrieving some of the arrows off of it that were not damaged or broken.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Ke]

<P>we have arrow rip that gives damge up close and allows us to reclaim an arrow for mob damage and an arrow level increase.  Not bad but one arrow at a time.  And the summon arrow spell....would take over four hours to fill up my quiver.  Thanks for the replies guys....I am just wanting more atm.  No reason we must go to big lengths to get it big raid groups and have our damage up there.  </P> <P>A ranger only arrow tree.....hmmmm....</P> <P> </P>

[Mawie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keay wrote:<BR> <DIV>We can talk about this all we want.  I want to hear from a power that be at SOE.  Lets hear it.  I know you are out there.  What is the reason behind this current path for rangers???</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Talk to us.  We know a bit about what each of us thinks about it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I hope you are listening.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>One thing I can tell you from experience...</P> <P>...they rarely respond because someone demands it. In fact, they don't respond when demanded because then everyone would be demanding a response.</P> <P>Something to keep in mind for the future. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>/derail off</P>

[Ke]

<P>I make no demands no threats to quit none of that crap normally seen here....i asked them to talk to us.  Tell us about it.  What is wrong with the endless quiver?  I want this issue fixed as much as anyone.  Not responding is not going to move this issue forward.</P>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

I'll speak from a woodworker perspective.This means I DON'T play a ranger or any other arrow-using class. I DON'T know about the damage/value of crafted, store-bought or summoned arrows.I DO know about crafting arrows. I DO know the Tier VII arrow market including what arrows sell for and in what quantities.From LU-24 until two days ago, I was the sole supplier of T7 adamantine arrows (bodkin, rounded and hunting) on my server. I suspect the lack of competition is because the market isn't very lucrative. I charge 12 silver per arrow. This is 14 silver 40 copper after broker markup. Fuel price is about 5.5 silver per arrow. This makes for a markup of 120%.Arrow sales were sporadic. Players would buy large quantities of arrows at one time. This was often followed by days where I would have no sales. Clearly, the cost/benefit of T7 arrows didn't make it an attractive purchase for most arrow users.The tradeskiller issue is that 120% markup is not much compared to other tradeskilled items. I have 7 level 70 tradeskillers, 1 at level 66 and 1 at level 62 so I can pick and choose what I want to make.Making significant changes to price or availability of arrows will wipe out any Tier VII market for tradeskilled arrows made by woodworkers.I'm not saying that rangers don't have a valid issue. I just wanted to add a different perspective.<div></div>

[interstellarmatter]

<P>Well, instead of demanding answers to the endless quiver, you should just do a search on the forums.  They have talked about it.</P> <P><A href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=101342&query.id=0#M101342" target=_blank>http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=combat&message.id=101342&query.id=0#M101342</A></P> <P>Now, the answer to your problem does seem to be taking a long time.  The endless quiver isn't going to happen but it would be nice if they hurried up with a middle ground solution.</P> <P>Blackfire</P> <P> </P>

[Ke]

<DIV>of all the _________ i have met in eq2 you may have just won first place.  ty for your kinda remarks.   go back to your star trek comic books please.</DIV>

[Storm_Runner]

<P>Personally I'd like to see the final combine for woodworkers give a stack of arrows.  Then they could sell more arrows at a lower price since it would take less time and less fuel/raws to make a stack.</P> <P>Also I'd like to see a general increase in the number of arrows you get from the summon arrows skills.  A master 2 version should get you a stack.  Also the reuse timer needs to be reduced to say...3-5 minutes.</P> <P>Last of all I'd like to see the summon arrow skills upgrade every 10 levels.  Since they are supposed to summon tier appropriate arrows it only makes sense that they should be upgraded every 10 levels...not every 14.   </P>

[interstellarmatter]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keay wrote:<BR> <DIV>of all the _________ i have met in eq2 you may have just won first place.  ty for your kinda remarks.   go back to your star trek comic books please.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Thank you, I love you too</P> <P>Blackfire</P> <P> </P>

[Ke]

I do like that summon arrow increase idea.  Would solve alot of the problems.  Good one.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Mawie]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keay wrote:<BR> <DIV>of all the _________ i have met in eq2 you may have just won first place.  ty for your kinda remarks.   go back to your star trek comic books please.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Wow, that was incredibly out of line. :smileyindifferent:

[Ke]

Just returning the ball in the spirit in was hit to me in

[Ke]

thanks to for woodworker input...good to hear from all sides....i guess this does impact everybody...

[Sharis]

Well your off to a good start on the forums.  9 posts and you've already ticked off a lot of people with your attitude.  Way to go!As far as the issue, there's a simple solution.  Make a woodworker.  Then you can make your own arrows at fuel costs, provided you harvest for yourself.  Arrow prices are much cheaper if you make it yourself.Its not perfect, you still have to pay for fuels, but your cost for arrows would come down by a ton.<div></div>

[Merkad]

@ Saihung23; The only real problem with what you are saying is that you admit you don't group/exp every night. It is essentially admitting that you cannot group/exp unless you consider an hour or two enough. If Rangers wish to exp like other classes, they will spend money on arrows, whether cheap or expensive.Personally, I severely dislike crafting, harvesting, and writs. Luckily, I kinda do like questing and can tolerate the things I do dislike. Over the last few days I spent about 3k of my 4k arrow stock, I ended up taking most of a day restocking/questing and harvesting (/cheer, 4 spongy loams). But had a guild group wanted to do something, I would have found myself buying arrows instead of letting reclaimed do the work.You are fortunate that you seem to not mind doing those things, but I would much rather be playing the adventure side of eq2 (even if it is HoF run #402).Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[Sharis]

<div><blockquote><hr>Merkades wrote:@ Saihung23; The only real problem with what you are saying is that you admit you don't group/exp every night. It is essentially admitting that you cannot group/exp unless you consider an hour or two enough. If Rangers wish to exp like other classes, they will spend money on arrows, whether cheap or expensive.Personally, I severely dislike crafting, harvesting, and writs. Luckily, I kinda do like questing and can tolerate the things I do dislike. Over the last few days I spent about 3k of my 4k arrow stock, I ended up taking most of a day restocking/questing and harvesting (/cheer, 4 spongy loams). But had a guild group wanted to do something, I would have found myself buying arrows instead of letting reclaimed do the work.You are fortunate that you seem to not mind doing those things, but I would much rather be playing the adventure side of eq2 (even if it is HoF run #402).Merkades, 70th Ranger.Siege, Najena.<hr></blockquote>And that's cool.  But then make friends with a woodworker who does like making stuff.  Work out some way that he keeps you in arrows and you keep him in whatever he needs.  Or else, you either adventure enough to afford the arrows at current prices, or you use lower level arrows.I'm certainly not saying this isn't an issue that should be looked at.  It should.  But rangers need to look at workarounds in the meantime - SOE has already said they are looking into it, its just that it will take time.  It took them years and years to fix rangers in EQ1, and I don't doubt it will take a long time here either.</div>

[Zarador]

<div></div>With all respect intended.  I really do agree that SoE find some middle ground to assist Rangers on this option. Appearently, from the link posted they are entertaining the idea.  It is however one thing to say "it would be nice if" as opposed to saying "we need a fix, SoE better do this".  The Arrow costs was not a *nerf* or some issue that occurs from level 50 plus whereby you now need to spend money where you never had to before. As the game scales up in content, so do the costs.  It's the same with Repair.  Most players don't log in and complain that 8gp is a huge amount for repairs as they became accustomed to if from the 1st time they paid 2cp for one.Again I agree that the costs *should* be reduced, however that would be a nice perk to the Rangers and not a *fix* of an unintended bug.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Zarador on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>08:55 AM</span>

[Ke]

<P>way up to Tasye....</P> <P> </P> <P>who was that masked man/woman?</P> <P> </P> <P>/adds to christmas wish list....love those ideas...hehe</P>

[Ke]

<P>I do agree that Interstellermatter did not deserve that.  Was not cool of me.  /sorry.</P> <P> </P> <P>And I do thank her for the link...<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Keay wrote:<div></div>I do like that summon arrow increase idea.  Would solve alot of the problems.  Good one.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote>no it wouldnt .. you'd still not be able to live up to your damage potential .. you use too many arrows to use the really good arrows..thats the problem...the easy fix for rangers was put in last patch .. betray... </div>

[Mirkanon]

Well I am a 63rd season ranger.  All the crafters I ask to make arrows refuse to make them.  I did once pre LU24 made enough sub components to make 1800 arrows and sent them to a willing woodworker.  He sent me 500 (Cobalt) rare arrows and said it was not cost effecient for him to make arrows.  I now buy them from the bowyer in HQ, 6 gp and change for 99 each.

[Shaulin Dolamite]

<P>To start with I have seen alot of good ideas to help this problem, but in my opinion we are taking this all wrong. We as rangers shouldnt have to pay ANYTHING for our normal T1 dps, NOTHING. Why should we have to pay to do our job, no other class has to pay to do there job. With that said, I have no problem paying for something extra,dps mod, some effect on our arrows (fire,coldetc.) but to do my job as a dps class I feel there should be no charge!</P> <P>So when everyone sits down to deside how to fix this issue from the arrow users to the woodworkers, I hope the first thing taken into consideration is , no class should have to pay Anything to do there job, you pay when you get something extra, a bonus. Doing our job shouldnt be something extra or a bonus.</P><p>Message Edited by Shaulin Dolamite on <span class=date_text>07-05-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:45 PM</span>

[Jayad]

There is no cost for ammo that is fair to rangers, or I think other classes.  Why should you have to pay to do your job?  I had a thread about this in the combat discussion forum a while back.  So far, you can hear crickets chirping from SOE's response on it.   Been several LUs since the one that forced us into this path and still no official word.

[Saihung23]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keay wrote:<BR> I do like that summon arrow increase idea.  Would solve alot of the problems.  Good one.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>the easy fix for rangers was put in last patch .. betray... <BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I respect your knowledge of rangers gameplay.</P> <P>But its such an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing to keep doing that.<BR></P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote: <div> <blockquote> <hr> Keay wrote: <div></div>I do like that summon arrow increase idea.  Would solve alot of the problems.  Good one.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <hr> </blockquote>the easy fix for rangers was put in last patch .. betray... </div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>I respect your knowledge of rangers gameplay.</p> <p>But its such an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing to keep doing that.</p><hr></blockquote>i appologise.. i'll restrain myself..its just hard not to share with every ranger i meet how much of a difference it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I shall respectfully just chime in on threads about ranger tactics.. let me know when you see one.. all i see are threads about OMG this is broken !.. i cant solo and "Oh Em Gee Arrows cost a butt load !"",.. and since you dont need my advice on the obvious and EXTREMELY effective fix.. i'll just wait till there is something else worth commenting on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Sirlutt wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR>i appologise.. i'll restrain myself..its just hard not to share with every ranger i meet how much of a difference it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>I shall respectfully just chime in on threads about ranger tactics.. let me know when you see one.. <STRONG>all i see are threads about OMG this is broken !.. i cant solo and "Oh Em Gee Arrows cost a butt load !""</STRONG>,.. and since you dont need my advice on the obvious and EXTREMELY effective fix.. i'll just wait till there is something else worth commenting on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Dude, you so got us there.  I'm glad you are happy with your Assassin.  Seriously I am.  Pardon me if I'm out of line, but after LU20, you were so absolutely miserable playing your Ranger and your misery was rubbing off.  A real buzz kill, so to speak.  Your advice is still welcome, well, except for that thing about betraying.:smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>Cheers!<BR></P>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Sirlutt wrote: <div>i appologise.. i'll restrain myself..its just hard not to share with every ranger i meet how much of a difference it is <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />I shall respectfully just chime in on threads about ranger tactics.. let me know when you see one.. <strong>all i see are threads about OMG this is broken !.. i cant solo and "Oh Em Gee Arrows cost a butt load !""</strong>,.. and since you dont need my advice on the obvious and EXTREMELY effective fix.. i'll just wait till there is something else worth commenting on <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>Dude, you so got us there.  I'm glad you are happy with your Assassin.  Seriously I am.  Pardon me if I'm out of line, but after LU20, you were so absolutely miserable playing your Ranger and your misery was rubbing off.  A real buzz kill, so to speak.  Your advice is still welcome, well, except for that thing about betraying.:smileyvery-happy:</p> <p>Cheers!</p><hr></blockquote>your right..i was.. so much that i shelved him and leveled a guardian from 15-70.  I think just about everyone was miserable after LU20 though l <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Brasi]

Has SOE EVER responded this issue?  Either they are ignorant or ambivilent, I think it's the latter.  This has been an issue for FAR to long for them to not know about it. <div></div>

[Jayad]

At one of their gatherings or such, they acknowledged it as an issue they were looking at.  But I don't think they ever have in the forums. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ke]

Arrow consumption is an issue we are looking at. Believe me, one of my guildmates (also on the dev team) is a ranger, and he talks about his arrow woes all the time. <P>We have discussed possible solutions, but we'd prefer to stay away from an endless quiver ability that makes woodworkers and the potential for specialized arrows obsolete. So it is indeed an issue we are aware of and are considering.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</P> <P>From April of this year.  /Sigh</P> <P> </P>

[Thicket Tundrabog]

There is actually a quick fix that would help the arrow situation. Arrow manufacture by woodworkers takes 4 fuel for a stack of 25 arrows. Reduce it to 1 fuel for 25 arrows. Fuel cost per arrow drops by 4 silver each at Tier VII. I know I would drop my arrow price by at least the 4 silver (from 12 silver down to 8 silver each).The beauty of this change is that it has zero impact on anything else.It may not be a massive change. Still, a 33% price reduction in crafted arrows is nothing to sneeze at.<div></div>

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Thicket Tundrabog wrote:<BR>There is actually a quick fix that would help the arrow situation. Arrow manufacture by woodworkers takes 4 fuel for a stack of 25 arrows. Reduce it to 1 fuel for 25 arrows. Fuel cost per arrow drops by 4 silver each at Tier VII. I know I would drop my arrow price by at least the 4 silver (from 12 silver down to 8 silver each).<BR><BR>The beauty of this change is that it has zero impact on anything else.<BR><BR>It may not be a massive change. Still, a 33% price reduction in crafted arrows is nothing to sneeze at.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>The fuel reduction would be a start but does not solve the all the problems. If arrow prices were reduced to the point rangers actually bought player made one, there are not enough woodworkers making arrows to fill the demand. </P> <P>I think the answer is to just let woodworkers make a full stack, and only have it cost 1 fuel. They can make future special damage arrows require more fuel. But our basic teir appropriate arrows should not cost much at all. </P> <P>This is about class balance and although there are many things about our dps that can be discussed the topic is Arrow Costs. We should not be expected to shell out ALOT of money for these, and if SOE made good arrows really cheap, who really cares. I don't see how they ever were expensive in the first place. It's basically a subclass specific money sink, and that does not seem very balanced to me.</P> <P>Poisons I can deal with, other scouts use them, they pay the same amount I do, they proc roughly as often as I do, there is a decent market for them. That is an acceptable expense.</P> <P>As for our summon arrow skill, I think it shouldn't be something we are reliant on. It should make 1 stack at master1 and it needs to be a skill issued every teir. Back when SOE came out w/ this every 14th lvl junk arrow tiers didn't matter so much, our CA's greatly over shadowed auto atk. Now that they matter, it seem stupid to have the skill at all if every other expansion it becomes useless.</P> <P>Oh an one more note, [Removed for Content] is with quivers being so small. Who on gods green earth is it hurting if you make the quivers hold dbl even triple what they do now. Again for class balance, I don't think we should have to give up inventory/bag slots for arrows. </P> <P>Also I'd like to mention I don't have any problems w/ arrows since I got one of those fabled bows, but I feel for you guys, I've been there. But recently my summoned lvl 70 arrows from my bow where changed. Originally the arrows would make all my atks Divine damage, now it has been changed that only my auto attack gets the affect. Frankly I think this is a stupid move by SOE. Not only do my lvl 70 arrows show no dmg difference to my lvl 60 summoned ones, the future special dmg arrows will be wasted constantly by CA's without the benefit of the effect. SOE wants CA's affected by arrow tier but not by dmg type. I gotta say CA's are either affected by our arrows are they aren't, this mixing and match bs is gonna mess things up in time.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[Jayad]

<P>What makes it frustrating is there's been like 3 LUs since the arrow problem was really discussed and there's nothing.  Meanwhile, we're shelling out money for arrows like mad.  Do we get a refund of all the money we've sunk into arrows?</P> <P>The whole paying for arrows is crap.  Vendored arrows should be *free*.  Rare arrows should do extra damage and be crafted.  Or let's give melee classes "ammo" and casters "ammo", then it would be fair.</P>

[Jay]

<DIV>The only reason this isn't a huge problem for me personally is b/c I don't do hardcore hunting / raiding every time I play Kaeros. So my summoning is more than able to keep up with my demand. (Too much so, in fact... I have multiple 28 slot boxes filled with summoned arrows in my bank, and I carry around 5000 on my person b/c I have a mortal fear of running out of ammo.) But as a previous poster mentioned, ranger shouldn't have to take a lot of down time just to click the summon button. Nor should we have to spend money to provide DPS when most other classes get to put out more damage for free. Poison costs are one thing, but arrows...not so much. I can see spending cash for special arrows - for certain damage types and such - but not for standard daily use. That's just wrong and unfair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>But I don't expect any Dev response on this issue any time soon. We know they're looking at it, we know they have some ideas about making crafted arrows more desireable (i.e. more expensive), and until they have some concrete changes that are going into an upcoming LU, they probably aren't going to say much more.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>PS: Sirlutt, thanks for your forbearance here... as a former colleague, I respect your thoughts and opinions. Just recognize that for most of us, changing classes is not a "fix" for rangers, it's just abandoning the class we love. Nothing wrong with doing so if that's where one's preference lies, but I personally want to stay a ranger, so I'd like the problems with the class to be addressed instead of just walking out the door. But I'm definitely glad to hear that you're happier as a result of betraying.</DIV><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class=date_text>07-07-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:51 PM</span>

[Nak]

make some kind of auto summon macro and afk in your inn room so you summon arrows every 10 minutes while you go to work or sleep or something or just make a pact with the devil or something that lets you get in a guild that can kill tarinax and have tarinax drop the bow and that it ends up on you The berserker/mt and myself never have problems with arrows <div></div>

[Hexus]

<P>I know the expansion doesn't come out until later this year, but they have mentioned that they are going to add more alternate abilities.  Hopefully the Endless Quiver Alternate Ability will be one of them, we can only hope for it.</P> <P> </P> <P>-Hexus-</P> <P>75 EQ 1 Ranger Veeshan (RETIRED)</P> <P>70 EQ 2 Ranger Kithicor</P>

[Jay]

<DIV>The Devs have repeatedly said that they're not going to include Endless Quiver, so I doubt you'll see any equivalent ability in an AA line. Apparently they *want* us to be dependent on crafters, or at the very least, see no problem with us paying regularly for the ability to do the job we were designed for. I'm not sure why we get that unique honor.</DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>I'm not convinced it's being looked at.  We haven't heard a single thing in months about it.  If they were looking at it, you could put something in a live update, of which there have been several.  If they look at it for 3 more months before doing something, I'm still out a lot of plat beyond what I already have paid.</P> <P>Sorry, I'm just getting a bit frustrated here.  There are problems and then there are problems which suck plat out of your bank account on a regular basis.</P>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Keay wrote:<BR> Arrow consumption is an issue we are looking at. Believe me, one of my guildmates (also on the dev team) is a ranger, and he talks about his arrow woes all the time. <P>We have discussed possible solutions, but we'd prefer to stay away from an endless quiver ability that makes woodworkers and the potential for specialized arrows obsolete. So it is indeed an issue we are aware of and are considering.</P> <P>===========================<BR>Steve Danuser, a.k.a. Moorgard<BR>Game Designer, EverQuest II</P> <P>From April of this year.  /Sigh</P> <P></P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Thank you for looking into this problem.<BR>:smileyhappy:

[Katsugen]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Xney wrote:<BR> <P>I'm not convinced it's being looked at.  We haven't heard a single thing in months about it.  If they were looking at it, you could put something in a live update, of which there have been several.  If they look at it for 3 more months before doing something, I'm still out a lot of plat beyond what I already have paid.</P> <P>Sorry, I'm just getting a bit frustrated here.  There are problems and then there are problems which suck plat out of your bank account on a regular basis.</P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>I agree, I don't believe the dev's are fully understanding the problem. All the threads I've read from them seem to indicate they believe it to be merely a crafting issue. That the arrows are not worht woodworkers time. I think they will only fix them from a woodworkers stand point to get them making them again, I fear they won't take into account the ranger perspective. If they make arrows cheaper to craft but in the same quantity, demand will be too high and we will see woodworkers moving prices up. I think the crafting dev's need to sit down and really go over w/ the combat dev's how to change it so they get it right first time. </P> <P>I also think that endless quiver is a bad solution. Regular appropriate teir arrows should cost next to nothing, and special damage effect come at a cost. We shouldn't have to rely on a skill for them, "crouch club" is not a viable answer.</P> <P>-Katsugen</P>

[Jayad]

<P>I don't see why there needs to be ammo <STRONG>at all</STRONG>.  You could just have an arrow type (doesn't get used up) which only specifies what damage type you want to do - piece, slash, crush.  Or make them specific to bows, like weapons are.  If it impacts wood-workers or other crafters, then give them something else to replace the ammo which they can make.</P> <P>If arrows dissapeared tomorrow and you could pick damage type through some method, then who would really care?  It's a hassle, it costs money, and it adds nothing to the game.  </P> <P>Maybe we could get something like the Assasin's Mark skill line to replace our arrow summoning.  Now there's a thought - fix two problems at once!</P>

[athitchcock]

<div>I have become a casual player in recent months, the only time I log on lately is for guild raids. During this time, I have been relying on feyiron arrows. I can usually summon a few stacks during preparation and down time, but I save those for the big fights.<blockquote><hr>Naku9 wrote:make some kind of auto summon macro and afk in your inn room so you summon arrows every 10 minutes while you go to work or sleep or something<div></div><hr></blockquote>I have considered doing this but worried it's against the EULA or something. Last thing I want to do is get banned from the game because I had to find a work around for my arrow supply.If it isn't a no no, any idea on how to get the macro to work? I seem to remember that the quick macro I made to try it didn't work for some reason.And yes, I'm hoping to one day get Bazkul the Soulseeker or one of the other summoning bows, but I'm not holding my breath.Gnaril</div>

[Zirlok]

<P>i sure hope use rangers can keep posting to change this arrow cost way behind us. </P> <P> </P> <P>as a 69 ranger from lvl60- now i have spent well over 20plat just on arrows and thats only casue i was forced to slow down my dps and melee some for fear of running out on the more important fights in an instance or raid named.</P> <P>sure i have summened a3 but that only gives 45 every 10mins, not nearly enough for what i use in 10minutes as i like to plow thru mobs and play fast, no slacking. and yeah once on my server i seen  that ca master 1 for sale for 8 plat but because i spent all my plat on arrows i couldn't afford it and having extra 15 every 10 minutes is prolly not worth the plat anyhow. </P> <P>also i know theres 2 bows that summon 99 every 5 mins. but come on how would i get my hands on a rare x4 t7 mob drop when i need to first get my gear and masters set to even get into a good raid guild that would take em?....and considering i am spending almost all my plat on arrows it would take a while to trick out my ranger to get into a raid guild....i like the idea of the arrow summoning bow, good amount and only 5min recast plus it can be cast while my summoned is cooling down is nice but i think it should be more accessable to players, like say a decent quest maybe even epic quest but so long as you get the bow no matter what, not just on a rare chance drop, rare chance drop off an epic x4 none the less...</P> <P>also other players may say we are whining but if they (meaning other dps classes) had to pay 2pp plus per grind or raid instance (which is what i fork out almost daily now) highly doubt they would feel the same way...maybe SoE can make a stone required for wizzys to use all his/hers spells, or have a stone summoners have to buy so they can call their pets into action every single mob ><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>another thing, they need to simply remove the crafted part out of it, it was never efficient for the crafter or ranger, too much to make hence too much to buy considering bowyer was almost always cheaper, unless crafter felt generous and took losses on his.</P> <P>i think reducing the bowyer cost, making the rare arrow summing bow more accessable would be a nice fix...or also making summoned master 1 like 99 per stack too, a3 maybe 80......and yes as a ca macro user, which i mean i set a few macros up and time em to not interfere with my auto range, i do need the best possible arrows as alot of our damage comes from ranged auto.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Nak]

<blockquote><hr>athitchcock wrote:<div>I have become a casual player in recent months, the only time I log on lately is for guild raids. During this time, I have been relying on feyiron arrows. I can usually summon a few stacks during preparation and down time, but I save those for the big fights.<blockquote><hr>Naku9 wrote:make some kind of auto summon macro and afk in your inn room so you summon arrows every 10 minutes while you go to work or sleep or something<div></div><hr></blockquote>I have considered doing this but worried it's against the EULA or something. Last thing I want to do is get banned from the game because I had to find a work around for my arrow supply.If it isn't a no no, any idea on how to get the macro to work? I seem to remember that the quick macro I made to try it didn't work for some reason.And yes, I'm hoping to one day get Bazkul the Soulseeker or one of the other summoning bows, but I'm not holding my breath.Gnaril</div><hr></blockquote>Gm's are beyond lazy and they would never randomly go searching one random person's inn room to see if he's using a macro to summon arrows. I've said it many times, the solution to my problem was to just use real cheap low teir arrows (tin) on trash mobs and xping and stuff. If your worried about how you parse in an xp group ( no one ever said my dps sucked while xping using tin) you can go poor buying arrows its not my problem <div></div>

[Nak]

<hr size="2" width="100%">also other players may say we are whining but if they (meaning other dps classes) had to pay 2pp plus per grind or raid instance (which is what i fork out almost daily now) highly doubt they would feel the same way...maybe SoE can make a stone required for wizzys to use all his/hers spells, or have a stone summoners have to buy so they can call their pets into action every single mob ><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <blockquote><hr></blockquote>Conjuror's have to use stones to cast CoH on you <span>:smileysad: Caster's do need to have some of those nil crystals and other summoned things to cast spells too, they summon them themselves and i don't think they run out that often, but they do have costs for some of their spells also </span><div></div>

[Zirlok]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Naku9 wrote:<BR> <HR width="100%" SIZE=2> also other players may say we are whining but if they (meaning other dps classes) had to pay 2pp plus per grind or raid instance (which is what i fork out almost daily now) highly doubt they would feel the same way...maybe SoE can make a stone required for wizzys to use all his/hers spells, or have a stone summoners have to buy so they can call their pets into action every single mob ><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Conjuror's have to use stones to cast CoH on you <SPAN>:smileysad:<BR>Caster's do need to have some of those nil crystals and other summoned things to cast spells too, they summon them themselves and i don't think they run out that often, but they do have costs for some of their spells also<BR><BR><BR></SPAN> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>i know they have CoH and other stuff, was simply saying if they had to use something to make them dps decent every single fight and that also would cost em 2pp+ then i doubt they would say we are whining.  </P> <P>simple as this, why do rangers have to buy those arrows to do dps?what other class has to spend that much just to do their job effectively every time they wanna grind/raid?..you could use summoned all the time but (lets say you had master1) in order to do so you have to like craft or harvest or go all melee in fights (which would really bring our numbers way lower than what they are at now) in order to make a full quiver stack, and even in that it takes a hecka long time with only 60 per 10 minutes..., i would not mind paying the bowyer fees every single grind/raid if i was up with the T1's on dps but to pay soo much so for soo little?</P>

[Nak]

<blockquote><hr>Zirlok wrote:<div></div> <blockquote> <hr> Naku9 wrote: <hr size="2" width="100%"> also other players may say we are whining but if they (meaning other dps classes) had to pay 2pp plus per grind or raid instance (which is what i fork out almost daily now) highly doubt they would feel the same way...maybe SoE can make a stone required for wizzys to use all his/hers spells, or have a stone summoners have to buy so they can call their pets into action every single mob ><img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <blockquote> <hr> </blockquote>Conjuror's have to use stones to cast CoH on you <span>:smileysad:Caster's do need to have some of those nil crystals and other summoned things to cast spells too, they summon them themselves and i don't think they run out that often, but they do have costs for some of their spells also</span> <div></div> <hr> </blockquote> <p>i know they have CoH and other stuff, was simply saying if they had to use something to make them dps decent every single fight and that also would cost em 2pp+ then i doubt they would say we are whining.  </p> <p>simple as this, why do rangers have to buy those arrows to do dps?what other class has to spend that much just to do their job effectively every time they wanna grind/raid?..you could use summoned all the time but (lets say you had master1) in order to do so you have to like craft or harvest or go all melee in fights (which would really bring our numbers way lower than what they are at now) in order to make a full quiver stack, and even in that it takes a hecka long time with only 60 per 10 minutes..., i would not mind paying the bowyer fees every single grind/raid if i was up with the T1's on dps but to pay soo much so for soo little?</p><hr></blockquote>No one is telling a ranger they have to buy arrows, they choose to. Rangers are definately capable of being t1 dps For all anyone knows SoE's solution to this problem was implimenting a betrayal system, can't pay the costs why play the class? clearly restocking on all masters would be cheaper then purchasing arrows in the long run?<div></div>

[joopW]

<P>Well,im a level 70 ranger and i still is the levl 40 something summon arrow skill. I never run out of arrows,even during raids. I do summon all the time though,even when looking on the broker and organizing my inventory. And damage wise the arrows arent our problem i think, the problem is the recast timers on our ca's. When the fight starts im ALWAYS ontop of the dps list,but when ive used my ca's and i see myself slowly dropping on the list,slowly ending up on the fifth spot or something.</P>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>One reason your DPS is dropping so fast with time is because auto-range is a big part of our DPS these days.  If you are using level 40 arrows, you are losing a lot of auto-range damage.  My guess is that your auto-range attack damage is about half of what it'd be if you used the T7 arrows.  Maybe someone who has actually tested this can give you a more accurate analysis.</DIV>

[Zirlok]

<P>yeah if you not using auto-range and timing your ca's to not interfere then you doing it wrong buds....use right arrows and watch your auto-range hit for 3k+, which is what mine hits atm....so every 7 seconds i hit that, thats a big difference considering most our ca's don't even hit that and have a longer recast then 7 seconds...but anyone who knows how to play our class right already knows this a long time ago.</P> <P>also to anyone says betray and become assasin, screw you and that idea. what in the world would be the point to make a class and switch at lvl70 with helluva alot of masters/a3's?...what so i can spend even more time buying assasin ones?....i made a ranger for a reason, if i want another char i will simply create a new one not reformat my current one all over again. there shouldn't be such a gap between the 2 dps classes as far as dps is concerned, only thing should be and is, would be your effectiveness in close attacks and ranged.</P> <P>also saying we don't need to buy arrows or need arrows to be T1 or even decent dps is just [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]....i like to see a ranger parse 1k+ on melee in a 1minute fight.</P>

[slicewalker]

if they cant /wont fix the arrow problem atleast turn the proc rate back up to pre lu20 i would gladly pay plat day in day out just to have my dps back and bollox to the moaners who wont pay for it suffer the lower dps on t1 arrows

[schla]

<div><blockquote><hr>slicewalker wrote:<div></div>if they cant /wont fix the arrow problem atleast turn the proc rate back up to pre lu20 i would gladly pay plat day in day out just to have my dps back and bollox to the moaners who wont pay for it suffer the lower dps on t1 arrows<hr></blockquote>LOL thats the spirit brotherI would just love to cash grind some [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all day to be able to pay for the arrows I need for tonights raid (irony btw)I think it's pretty obvious we wont get pre LU20 back any time soon and I'm pretty sure letting them ignore a broken ammo system wont convince em either.Love your sense of solidarity...Would you also be glad to spit out plat helping a guildy thru a quest  just cuz your a nice guy?I want to be able to do exactly that, at the best of my abillity (best dps), without depleting my allready tight amount of coinAs it is now I have to stock up quiver (and reserve sandalwood box) with t1 naff [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] cause I know "This is going to take all night and spend tons of arrows that i need for next raid" everytime a guildy needs my help, (that Im otherwise more than happy to give)It ticks me off that i cant bring my A-game for those kinda things unless i got makeshift to spare</div>

[Arr]

Since SOE doesn't want to address our concerns why don't you guys do what every ranger I know does..  Use a macro that summons arrows for you while you sleep.  It isn't rocket science.  <div></div>

[athitchcock]

I don't believe it's possible to put a pause in a macro.Summoning 35 arrows while I sleep wouldn't be that helpful.<div></div>

[mik]

What is this thread about? I bought Reclaimed Arrows M1 for 15 plat several days after KoS and dont have any problems with arrows since that time. Summoning 65 arrows per 10 min is more than enough for almost every day raiding.~ Tesei 70 ranger / 70 jeweler, Defiant (RE)<div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikk1 wrote:What is this thread about? I bought Reclaimed Arrows M1 for 15 plat several days after KoS and dont have any problems with arrows since that time. Summoning 65 arrows per 10 min is more than enough for almost every day raiding.~ Tesei 70 ranger / 70 jeweler, Defiant (RE)<div></div><hr></blockquote>have you compared how much damage your reclaimed arrows do vs store bought vs player made ?yup its cheap, but there is alot of untapped damage potential there.  Ranged Auto-attack is a large part of your damage, probably about 15-30% .. if you can use arrows that do mroe damage, you can raise the amount of damage you output in a fight significantly.  Its just like the difference between an imbued Cobalt wepaon with a DR of 45 and a fabled T7 weapon with a DR of 65.using reclmaimed arrows your making do using that lower tier weapon.. if bows were to work like hand weapons then the DR of the bow would be the important part, not the tier/quality of arrow you use.  If that was true then reclaimed arrows would be just fine.  even if the class of arrow qffected the DR of the weapon (ie iron arrows drop the DR to half but reclaimed and players made keep it at what it is) then you it'd be fine.  But having to use player made arrows to maximise your damage and then using 2000+ of those a night because your CA's use arrows too is just stupid.make it so you have to have arrows equiped for Ranged CA's to work (and a bow too).. but do notmake ranged Ca's use arrows, leave them for auto attack only.  Then it'd be almost bearable to use the best arrows you can get made, and you'd only use 300-400 a night perhaps.. even then thats alot of coin.the ultimate solution is to give the people who make arrows the ability to make arrow bundles that act like other weapons, they have a DR, they are per tier and they come in pierce, slash, crushing and can be imbued etc etc.  Make them "unlimited", but make them grey out like other weapons.  Just like me as an assassin carried several diff types of weapons and gets the best DR i can, the rangers can do the same with arrow bundles.  If the 70 Guardian wants to use the same T1 bundle for pulling, great for him.</div>

[Tseri]

<P>Reclaimed Arrows (makeshift Adamantine arrows) are level 60.  Adamantine arrows from the merchant are level 60.  They should do the same amount of damage correct?</P> <P> </P> <P>Now, having said that.  I've recently gone from non-raid to raiding three times a week (at least).  I never used to have a problem keeping arrows stocked.  Reclaimed arrows was plenty.  Now that I raid and go through entire quivers of arrows for one run I'm spending 1.4 plat a raid just to be able to do damage (and that's only one 22 slot quiver).  You can't do t1 damage without arrows, you're missing over half of your CA's that way.  It's very difficult to do t1 damage without poisons but arguably possible.  Either way, I'm paying 1.4 plat and more just to be able to fill my role on a raid.</P> <P> </P> <P>The argument that improving our summoned arrows would impact woodworkers is just crazy.  I search the broker for arrows before every raid in hopes of spending less from a tradeskiller then from a merchant to no avail.  I have found one (not one stack, one single) adamantine arrow.  Somehow I don't see the lack of business from Rangers buying arrows as that big of an impact.</P>

[110euph]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> athitchcock wrote:<BR>I don't believe it's possible to put a pause in a macro.<BR>Summoning 35 arrows while I sleep wouldn't be that helpful.<BR><BR><BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Unfortunately, having your computer or a third party program do ANYTHING while you are not at your keyboard is a banable offense.  I had a friend who... umm... now plays WoW.  But he used to have 4 level 50 crafters, before DoF. </P> <P>:smileysad: Banned.</P>

[Peston]

<DIV>I just wish they would fix this issue, and quick. I'm tired of paying for arrows.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And no, this isn't an option... this is MANDATORY in order to do the DPS your class was intended to do.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>To the person that got the M1 on reclaimed arrows. Grats! But what about the rest of us? We all can't have that M1... lol.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Just one developer or game designer reply would suffice on my part. IN the Ranger forum. Since this is, after all, a Ranger issue. I have not seen one such reply yet.</DIV>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>Yesterday, I was mowing the lawn.  Usually Sunday activity.  Then my wife comes out and tells me that someone has put a PoA group together and wanted us to come along.  A couple of hours into playing, someone else has the idea of going to Lab to farm some relics.  A few more hours later, I'm 6,000 arrows lighter than when I started, and I was punching my makeshift every chance I had.  I now have less than 400 arrows in my inventory.  If  I decide to play tonight, I will be buying arrows, there is no way around it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>And, If I had the master T7 reclaim, I'd be just a little bit better off, but I'd still have less than 1000 arrows right now.  Not nearly enough for an evening of EQ2.  Crafted T7 arrows are 12 silver each on my server.  It boggles my mind that anyone would look at this situation and think of it as fair.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>On my list of fix priorities, this is number one.  I can deal with having less DPS than assassins and summoners.  Maybe my DPS would be a little better if I could supplement my gear by purchasing some better items.  But that's not an option because my plat goes into arrows.  What's left over is used for potions and poisons, which I consider a normal cost of adventuring.  The cost of making or buying arrows is outrageous though.</DIV>

[schla]

<div><blockquote><hr>mikk1 wrote:What is this thread about? I bought Reclaimed Arrows M1 for 15 plat several days after KoS and dont have any problems with arrows since that time. Summoning 65 arrows per 10 min is more than enough for almost every day raiding.~ Tesei 70 ranger / 70 jeweler, Defiant (RE)<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well Tesei...Ive been checking the RE broker on a regular basis since I moved server and I have yet to see makeshift arrows on...not even sure i would pay 15 plat for it if it were there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Send me a tell if u loot it tho hehe</div>

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> schlamo wrote:<BR> <DIV><BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> mikk1 wrote:<BR>What is this thread about? I bought Reclaimed Arrows M1 for 15 plat several days after KoS and dont have any problems with arrows since that time. Summoning 65 arrows per 10 min is more than enough for almost every day raiding.<BR><BR>~ Tesei 70 ranger / 70 jeweler, Defiant (RE)<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Well Tesei...Ive been checking the RE broker on a regular basis since I moved server and I have yet to see makeshift arrows on...not even sure i would pay 15 plat for it if it were there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR>Send me a tell if u loot it tho hehe<BR></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>There is one on Kithicor currently priced at 18pp.  It's kind of a joke really.  In order to save up 18pp, I'd have to quit buying arrows.  If I quit buying arrows, I can't bring my A-game.  That's not going to happen.  The question is, how do I break the paradox?  Even if I had the master, I'll still be buying arrows, just at a lower rate.  So, having the master isn't the solution either.</P> <P>Personally, I like the bundle of arrows idea.  This way arrows are made and used just like any other weapon/armor/spell/etc.  You keep it until you out-grow it or find something better (apply this to throwing ammo also).  Plus arrow bundles can be made with special types.  Like ones that proc heat/cold/magic/etc damage, and make those available for each type of arrows hunting/bodkin/etc.  We'd definately keep the fletchers employed because we'd be buying many bundles with different types/procs.  I'd think any Ranger would want one of each combination and for each tier as they level up.  It would be a win-win for everyone.<BR></P>

[Sirlutt]

exactly Gare .Make the bundles require a rare metal, a rare wood and one of the rare stone/tooth/flower things.  No need to have non rare versions of this.  Make the type of stone/tooth/flower used and the type of rare metal determine the type of bundle created.. such as slash/piercing/crushing/fire/cold etc etc.  Its not like woodworkers would be losing out making these, no one buys their arrows anyhow.  As an assassin i can swap out my weapons to suit the situations, Ranger should be able to aswell.  I'd happily pay 2-5 plat in rares to have one of these made, once for that tier than the constant shelling out of coin that goes on with Rangers.  This is the only viable solution in my opinion.. it would still make quivers useful .. you use the quiver to hold your bundles and move the bundle you want to use into slot 1 for it to be active.<div></div>

[Stormhawk]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div>I like the bundle idea but since it is too close to endless quiver we need to change it up a bit.  Make them charged like a poison.  The charge would summon 1 stack of standard arrows per bundle.  Price a bundle similiar to poisons in the same teir and return similiar number of bundles per combine. 10 poison vials are returned for a pristine combine, it should be the same for arrow bundles.  Out of 1 pristine combine the woodworker would basically get 990 arrows.  At T7 a ranger should be paying around 25s for a bundle of arrows on the broker, this is the same price per poison vial.  That I can deal with, instead of paying 60g to refill my quiver I'd be paying 2.5g.  Also make the bundles stackable, like poisons, thus solving the space problem as well.  So you'd have a quiver full of arrows and a stack of 20 bundles in your pack taking up 1 slot.  That may sound wierd but it is EQ, what goes in backpacks never made sense. <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span>Now, for us this is only to fill spots makeshift can't fill but it helps our assassin friends too.  Here is where the stuff for us comes in.  Using more a expensive process ( fuels or components ) allow woodworkers to make speciality arrows.  Pricing should be similiar to rare poisons ( ~1g per bundle ) resulting in a full 20-slot quiver of speciality arrows for 20g.  I submit the following speciality arrow types, some of which already exist:Broadhead: Increased Damage / Standard AccuracyBodkin: Increased Accuracy / Standard DamageRounded: Crushing / Standard Damage / Standard AccuracyFlame-Tipped: Fire / Standard Damange / Standard Accuracy Poison-Tipped: Poison / Standard Damage / Standard Accuracy<p>Message Edited by Stormhawk on <span class=date_text>07-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:39 AM</span>

[Peston]

Those are some great ideas guys =)And ya know what... still waiting for a Dev comment.Hopefully something more than the usual... "We are looking into this issue"