Ranger experience in 2 Group Raid

[Co]

<DIV>I represent probably the average Ranger .... I have a few Masters and a few pieces of Fabled T7 gear ... most of the rest of the spells are Adept1.  I tend to purchase stacks of lvl 30 or lvl 40 arrows for Raids and such.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Last Night I was with my guild and we hit up the x2 AoA zone.  A Wiz in the group was running a Parse. </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I was doing everything I could .. using a poison and being in that middle range so I could melee and range attack and I was consistantly the lowest on the totem pole.  Another Ranger was in my group and he tended to be at the bottom end as well.  We were consistantly out DPS'ed by a Monk, Wizard, Necromancer, Swashy, and Troubador.  The Monk and Wiz would consistantly be in the 750-850 range and the others were more in the 550-700 range with the Rangers being in the 450-575.  I know we aren't going to compete with Wizards but geez it is depressing to see we cant keep up with Utility Classes .... when we only provide dps.  Sure if a mob can only be ranged perhaps we get moved up but that is such a specific case that it makes our class more restricted than any other.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>This brings me to another conclusion.  When the Devs supposedly balanced us they must have done so with using the best available arrows for Autoattack.  As an average player .. I cannot afford to spend 1plat per raid on arrows or have the time to sit and make them all day to have enough for the raid.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>All I know is that was depressing to see the work I have put into leveling a DPS class pales in comparison with other classes can do as much or more and have so many more tools to help the group.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>/end rant</DIV>

[Fennir]

1.  our offensive stance is broken and not proccing, which is cutting our DPS by 10-15% at least, generally.2. "I tend to purchase stacks of lvl 30 or lvl 40 arrows for Raids and such." = bad.  The greatest percentage of your damage comes from ranged autoattack, which is severely affected by arrow tier.  Why aren't you using your summoned arrows?  They are level 60 and will provide the most damage... and they're free.Try using arrows of the appropriate tier and see if you don't do better on the parses.  You'll do even better after they fix Quick Shot procs.Yes, it's hard to summon enough arrows to play with if you're not logged on a lot, and the devs said they're looking into fixing our arrow consumption problems, but until then there isn't much that can be done other than hitting makeshift while you're harvesting, or at the broker or whatever (or crouching every so often through the night but we don't talk about that here).<div></div>

[Co]

<P>I know AutoAttack is awesome for us ... and the Off buff being down is atleast some good news for the lack of dps I was doing.</P> <P> </P> <P>Is there a way to just leave my ranger on over night and have him making arrows? that is quote unquote legal in gaming terms?  If so then I could make them overnight and store them so that I have plenty for raids.</P>

[Fennir]

<div><blockquote><hr>Corb wrote:<div></div> <p>Is there a way to just leave my ranger on over night and have him making arrows? </p><hr></blockquote>the first rule of crouch club is that we dont talk about crouch clublol</div>

[Ranja]

<P>This god [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] HTML bug sucks</P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<P>Troub?? Ouch, man. I feel your pain. Off the top of my head, in addition to the arrows issue that Tobias mentioned:</P> <UL> <LI>What kind of poisons are you using?</LI> <LI>What's your general group setup in a raid?</LI> <LI>Are you pacing your ranged CAs so they don't interrupt auto-fire, or are you spamming like the good ol' days?</LI> <LI>Are you using your Focus line everytime it's available and appropriate?</LI> <LI>Are you using other temporary self-buffs in combat?</LI> <LI>Are you debuffing for all you're worth?</LI> <LI>Are you using a decent bow and melee weapons?</LI></UL> <P>These questions are just based on my own experience adjusting the way I play, post LU20. </P>

[Co]

<LI>What kind of poisons are you using? <FONT color=#ffff33>I was using 3 potions ... 1 does 250ish dmg every 6 secs, 1 was a power debuff and generator for me and the other was a Str buff</FONT> <LI>What's your general group setup in a raid? This being the two group setup we didnt have really any buffers in our group.  <FONT color=#ffff33>Wiz, 2 Rangers, Nec, Monk, and Templar.  The other group had the Swashy, Troub, Pally, Defiler, and Mystic.</FONT> <LI>Are you pacing your ranged CAs so they don't interrupt auto-fire, or are you spamming like the good ol' days? <FONT color=#ffff33>I tried to pace myself and allow for AutoAttack ... but the arrow situation probably hurt that anyway.</FONT> <LI>Are you using your Focus line everytime it's available and appropriate? <FONT color=#ffff33>Yes .... I use it then fire off about 5 CA's while it is one ... my biggest dmg ones that have the shortest cast times</FONT> <LI>Are you using other temporary self-buffs in combat? <FONT color=#ffff33>I would use my 30 sec melee buff when I went in on the mob.</FONT> <LI>Are you debuffing for all you're worth? <FONT color=#ffff33>Yes ... but that doesnt really affect me in relationship to the others because they gain the advantage of the debuff as well</FONT> <LI>Are you using a decent bow and melee weapons?<FONT color=#ffff33> I have the Grizzle... bow</FONT></LI>

[Fennir]

you can use a powerdrain and a damage poison at the same time?i was under the impression that this was not the casei would also suggest using a high DD poison (like grandmasters caustic) because we actually do proc often enough to make it worthwhile, while a DoT poison will constantly be overwriting itself<div></div>

[Jay]

OF COURSE!! It's the nice long thought-out well-written posts that have to get deleted. Sorry, I'll rewrite it later. These forums are a f'in POS lately.

[Carna]

<P>I CTRL-A... CTRL-C all posts more than a couple of lines now because of the current behaviour of the forums. It might be worth getting into the habit.</P> <P>Not attempting a smug self satisfied post... hopefully just providing something that will save you a lot of grief.</P>

[Jay]

No worries, I've been copying almost every single post I write. So much so that I'm doing it in other forums that actually work. It just happened that the one post that was WORTH saving, I happened to forget before clicking submit, and it clears so fast that I couldn't select all and copy first. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Co]

Honestly these posts eventhough have good info on getting more dmg also prove the point .... that this is crazy and rediculous that a Pure Damage Class has to go through so many checks of ... are you using the right bow, arrows, poisons and so on just to keep up with the DPS of other classes that give sooooo much more to a group.

[Jayad]

<P>On the raid last night I was in, both the necro and conjurors were beating me with just their pets <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  And yes I'm using good gear/arrows.  Even factoring in the lack of quickshot, it was still bad.  Even with Rain up with Focus, when I was breaking 1200-1300dps on mobs they were doing > 1500 (PC+pet combined).  On single target mobs with a lot of HP, it wasn't even that close.  After cycling through the CAs and melee CAs, you hit a dead zone, while the pets and DOT pets keep attacking.  If the fight lasts about as long as the CA cycle, then it's better but I'm still not there. </P> <P>I'm out of ideas on how to improve my raid dps personally.  Even if I master out every skill, it will not be there.  I guess I could ask our raid leader to have every offensive proc buff on me, maybe I'll equal summoners or assassins then...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corb wrote:<BR> Honestly these posts eventhough have good info on getting more dmg also prove the point .... that this is crazy and rediculous that a Pure Damage Class has to go through so many checks of ... are you using the right bow, arrows, poisons and so on just to keep up with the DPS of other classes that give sooooo much more to a group.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I couldn't agree with you more, Corb. But...what's the alternative, assuming you want to keep playing your ranger and you still enjoy the game?</P> <P>You're right, this isn't fair. You're right that we should not struggle to do damage comparable to a tank class, or a bard. But this is the situation we're in, like it or not. It's not just, it's clearly unbalanced, and it's sad that it's being left unaddressed. But it's out of our hands.</P> <P>As I see it, we can: (A) bear with it and do the best we can, (B) shelve our rangers and play different classes, or (C) cancel our subscriptions. I'm going with option A for now.</P>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">As usual, I totally agree with my esteemed colleague (sp?) above.</font><div></div>

[Jay]

Spelling is correct! Am I going to see you in-game tonight? We need to talk <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Zholain]

<font size="2">Aye, I should be online around 8pm eastern.  Maybe a few minutes earlier.</font><div></div>

[Co]

<P>"As I see it, we can: (A) bear with it and do the best we can, (B) shelve our rangers and play different classes, or (C) cancel our subscriptions. I'm going with option A for now."</P> <P>These is an Option (D) Complain enough so that it gets fixed.  While this may be the most frustrating option in the short term in the long run it will get more results than just Option (A) alone.  I dont tend to complain much about the class ... I do like being a Ranger but nights like that make it semi depressing.  Makes you wonder when the day will come that groups will say hmmm lfg dps for last spot and you reply only to hear you dont do enough damage to warrant the spot.</P>

[Taubin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Corb wrote:<div></div> <p>"As I see it, we can: (A) bear with it and do the best we can, (B) shelve our rangers and play different classes, or (C) cancel our subscriptions. I'm going with option A for now."</p> <p>These is an Option (D) Complain enough so that it gets fixed.  While this may be the most frustrating option in the short term in the long run it will get more results than just Option (A) alone.  I dont tend to complain much about the class ... I do like being a Ranger but nights like that make it semi depressing.  Makes you wonder when the day will come that groups will say hmmm lfg dps for last spot and you reply only to hear you dont do enough damage to warrant the spot.</p><hr></blockquote>We've already done option (D) and it doesn't work out taht well.  It just brings more attention to us that tends to get us "balanced" (read: nerfed) more...  </div>

[Co]

<P>Except didnt they mention in previous threads that they are looking into a fix on the arrow situation?  That not only has been complained about by us but I do believe the Dev said that another Dev he groups with that is a Ranger constantly complains about arrow cost.  Plus how much more can they really nerf us?  </P> <P>Basically all I am calling for is the ability to have the best ammo available for our class without costing us all the money we have or having to spend 3x the amount of time on the game just making arrows.  If we can have that then I believe we would be just fine and balanced.</P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Corb wrote:<BR> <P>Except didn't they mention in previous threads that they are looking into a fix on the arrow situation?  That not only has been complained about by us but I do believe the Dev said that another Dev he groups with that is a Ranger constantly complains about arrow cost.  Plus how much more can they really nerf us?  </P> <P>Basically all I am calling for is the ability to have the best ammo available for our class without costing us all the money we have or having to spend 3x the amount of time on the game just making arrows.  If we can have that then I believe we would be just fine and balanced.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>I know all about option D, believe me. Frankly, I don't think the Devs make changes to the game based on complaints in a forum. That'd be utter chaos. What we can do is be persistent about bringing the biggest issues with the class to their attention, in hopes that our voices coupled with their own testing will raise awareness of a particular problem, and that they'll look into that problem and resolve it. </P> <P>They're aware of arrow consumption and are looking into ways of fixing it. Believe me, I sympathize with everything you're saying, but it's been hashed out here since LU20 (and long before, regarding ammo and expenses) and right now I'd just rather focus on enjoying the game instead of obsessing about everything that's wrong with it. </P>

[Co]

<P>Deleted portion here because I was being an [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] when someone was just helping <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>I do enjoy the game but at some point everyone will have to rant a bit to relieve some stress from it.  I don't think every dev reads every rant and goes out to make a change based on that but  .... they are human like us and if by reading a post and it makes a dev remember to write a line of code on Tuesday rather than forgetting about it till Wednsday then I dont see were it hurts.  If I turned it all personal against SOE and say they are ruining my gaming experience and I hate the game and so on ... then I need to find a new game.</P><p>Message Edited by Corb on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>09:02 AM</span>

[Sirlutt]

<div><blockquote><hr>Corb wrote:<div></div> <p>"As I see it, we can: (A) bear with it and do the best we can, (B) shelve our rangers and play different classes, or (C) cancel our subscriptions. I'm going with option A for now."</p> <p>These is an Option (D) Complain enough so that it gets fixed.  While this may be the most frustrating option in the short term in the long run it will get more results than just Option (A) alone.  I dont tend to complain much about the class ... I do like being a Ranger but nights like that make it semi depressing.  Makes you wonder when the day will come that groups will say hmmm lfg dps for last spot and you reply only to hear you dont do enough damage to warrant the spot.</p><hr></blockquote>I went with C.  I just cant muster the inclination to play my Ranger anymore.  There is not a single thing he does that cannot be done as good, or better by another class.  Thats the problem with Rangers right now, we are the jack of one trade, master of none.i narrowed it down to what I miss, the bog globule thingy that fires off when my offensive stance proc.   made me feel like i was a big bit of artillery.. LOL.. sill thing to miss i know.. but thats what i miss the most...  " .. Fire Mission 1 Gun !!! " ...</div>

[Fennir]

Trust me, Corb, we're no stranger to complaining about what's worth complaining about.If you want to take up the reins and complain about everything about the class you feel is unfair, go ahead, but you may not find much support from the rest of us......you might say we're all complained out.  If there's a bug, like our offensive stance not working, I'll point it out and try to get a dev response.  Whining about where I am on the DPS parse?  Not going there anymore.<div></div>

[Co]

<DIV>Fair enough ... the thing is this experience I had was while the Off buff was broken (and I didnt know when I wrote it).  I dont run a parse and I just happened to be grouped in a raid and they ran the parse after every fight.  It just got really deflatting to see as hard as I tried that I couldn't get off the bottom.  I am assuming most of that was do to the Offensive stance ... so honestly my first post other than the arrow issue that they are working on is negated.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Fennir wrote:<BR>Trust me, Corb, we're no stranger to complaining about what's worth complaining about.<BR><BR>If you want to take up the reins and complain about everything about the class you feel is unfair, go ahead, but you may not find much support from the rest of us...<BR><BR>...<FONT color=#ffff66>you might say we're all complained out.</FONT>  If there's a bug, like our offensive stance not working, I'll point it out and try to get a dev response.  Whining about where I am on the DPS parse?  Not going there anymore.<BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Bingo, give this man a cookie. That about sums up where I'm coming from. I've done my share of whining in the past, and the only thing it accomplishes is to make me unhappy with my gameplay.</P> <P>Nobody is saying "don't complain," Corb...you're entitled, especially if you just want to vent for a while to blow off the frustration. Just be aware that we've gone through the ringer on these issues already. I think the best thing we can do now as a class is continue learning to do the most with the tools we've got. Some folks are already there, but I'm still adjusting. Thankfully, I've found my own DPS has steadily improved since LU20 and I hope to continue the trend. </P>

[StealthM0]

<DIV>First I heard of the off. stance being broken, even more reason to use that master 1 defensive stance *).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I am assuming by todays patch notes this proc change is for our offensive stance and we should be seeing it proc now?</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>OH CRAP THEY'RE GOING TO RENERF US! If we were nerfed dps wise in the past cause we were too high, wont our proc throw that dps back up there *some not significantly, it wont proc often enough to be a serious factor, just making a light joke about it, what else can you do*.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Btw to those whose posts are getting eaten by the html editor....</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Stop using the non web based colors for text color/font color, that is why the editor is eating posts lately. Colors in the applet aren't optimized for web they are your standard non web bases colors in there. Use ones you know are WEB BASED, and you won't get your post eaten anymore.</DIV><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class=date_text>05-10-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:17 AM</span>

[Gareorn]

<DIV>I'm in agreement with Kaeros and Tobias.  DPS is kind of a dead issue.  But, when something does break (or get fixed), it's always good to come here and find out if others are having the same experience.  Every once in a while I know the answer to someone's question, but for the most part I just surf the forum for information and add the occassional wise crack like the goober I am.  </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>BTW Stealthmode, I use the default fonts and colors almost all of the time and periodically I still lose a post to the html bug.  How do I tell if they are web-based?  I'd assume the defaults are web-based.  /shrug.</DIV>

[Teksun]

My biggest complaint about the HTML is I can no longer type it in word and paste it here. That's the only time I seem to get that error. Which also means, any long informative posts don't make it in <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <div></div>

[Sirlutt]

notepad works fine... dont use anything with formatting or special characters.<div></div>

[Jowita]

<P>Or do what I do and click "Preview Post" EVERY SINGLE TIME you post something. This will defeat the HTML f*cking-you-in-your-[Removed for Content] monster every time. It took me a week or so to remember to do it, but it's like second nature now.</P> <P>On the main topic, I don't have anything to add, unfortunately. I'm still in the heady days of the mid-twenties, when having Masters and great gear makes you the king of the group. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Flid</P>

[Taubin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Flidias wrote:<div></div>I'm still in the heady days of the mid-twenties, when having Masters and great gear makes you the king of the group. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <p>Flid</p><hr></blockquote>Wouldn't it be Queen in your case? <span>:smileytongue:</span></div>

[Jowita]

<DIV>:smileyvery-happy: Yeah, but "king" sounds ever-so-much-more authoritative, don't you think? Like "Cap of the <FONT color=#ff0000>King</FONT>pin," or "Crown of <FONT color=#ff0000>King</FONT> Trannix." Or like "<FONT color=#ff0000>King</FONT> of the Hill." Or like in checkers. Can you imagine someone saying, "Queen me!" :smileytongue:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> Silliness runs rampant today...</DIV>

[Blarth]

Honestly, there is no use arguing with the devs. They put in game what they believe should be put in game. Its our job just to point out what they funk up. They actually have given us back some of our dps power back. You just got to find out the best way to put out best dps. 1. Upgrade you skills and your equipment. lvl 30 arrows wont cut it against a 74 epicx4. i consistantly see my auto attack hitting close to 1000 or more. Like Fennir said in an earlier post, makeshift arrows can be a big help rather than paying a plat for every raid to buy T7 arrows. Unless you have it at master you are going to have to spend some time doing something that doesnt involve firing arrows. So why not harvest while your stacking up on arrows. Harvest the nodes that will produce a rare that you can use to make Adept III spells. App IV wont cut it if your trying to be top dps. 2. Stats. IMO the rangers biggest concern of stats in raid would be Str and resists. Resists are just common sense for everyone in the raid. If your trying to do more dps you want more Str. Str increase the amount of damage you do, therefore increasing dps. Group buffs will do wonders for dps too. Note: Agi is important too but Agi should already be high as hell seeing as you a RANGER. 3. AA's. This is the best tool that SOE gave us to fix our dps. Agi line is a must and i would suggest Str line rather than Int or Wis. At the end of the Str line it really only affects 2 spells, Sniper Shot and Rain of Arrows but they turn into huge hits. Their damage will increase by 10% and their reuse timer will get sped up, from 3 minutes to 2 minutes and from 15 minutes to 10 minutes. Watch your dps fly as you hit Focus Aim before Rain of Arrows. Its hard not to be in the top 3 when you crit on rain of arrows with 4 mobs around the tank. These are just some of the things that i have come across that help. So stop complining about our class not having any dps because they gave us a fix. Its the other classes that need to be fixed. <div></div>

[Co]

<P>"So stop complining about our class not having any dps because they gave us a fix. Its the other classes that need to be fixed"</P> <P>Thank you for your post ... all of it was great until you start to tell someone what to do ... thanks dad</P> <P>Please read the entire thread.  I was complaining about one particular night and the issues I saw with it.  I actaully downloaded a parse and used it on a Lyceum Raid last night.  I was consistantly falling right behind the wizards ... with a Monk and either a Nec or Conj popping ahead depending on the fights.  So like I basically said ...  the majority of the original post was negated for the fact that our offensive stance was busted.  That is why I was falling behind even the Troubadors.  As for complaining ... no I won't stop if I see there is an issue.  The only outstanding issue I have at all about my Ranger is the Arrow one.  Yes I can go just harvest all day and make arrows ... hmmm but perhaps I wont be able to keep the job I have.  </P> <P>Some may say ... reroll your class if you dont want to spend 80% of your time making arrows for 20% of the game or spending the 1plat per raid on the lvl 60 arrows.  Maybe your right if SOE has no intention of changing this ... but I have a feeling they are working on this. </P> <P>My current Strategy for helping save some cash is use the lvl 30 arrows on the trash mobs that cause no threat to the raid but just take a bit of time to get through and save my higher arrows for the bosses.</P>