Mid-20s Ranger GROUP tactics

[Jowita]

<DIV>Hi all,</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>I'd appreciate some feedback/critique on the Ranger-ette <STRONG><FONT color=#ffff00>group</FONT></STRONG> tactics on which I've been working. I'm currently lvl 25, but am preparing for lvl 26 (with Hidden Shot). Note that I'm currently equipped with Translucent Astonishing Visions (rare high DD/high DoT) and Translucent Altered Immunity (poison/disease debuff).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Here's how I'm thinking about approaching a group encounter at lvl 26:</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Steady Aim--></SPAN><SPAN>Trick Shot--></SPAN><SPAN>Stalk--></SPAN><SPAN>Hidden Shot--></SPAN><SPAN>Wounding Arrow--></SPAN><SPAN>Back Shot (if flanking target)--></SPAN><SPAN>Heated Shot--></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Move into melee range--></FONT></SPAN><SPAN>Leaping Cut</SPAN><SPAN><SPAN>--></SPAN></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN><SPAN>I</SPAN></SPAN><SPAN>mpede</SPAN><SPAN>--></SPAN><SPAN>Corner--></SPAN><SPAN>Lunge--></SPAN><SPAN>Hidden Attack--></SPAN><SPAN>Shadow Lunge--></SPAN><SPAN><FONT color=#66ff00>Back up for more ranged attacks--></FONT></SPAN><SPAN>Heated Shot/Wounding Arrow--></SPAN><SPAN>Shocking Strike--></SPAN><SPAN>Stalk--></SPAN><SPAN>Shadow Flame.</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>What do you experts out there think? Room for improvement? Good to go? Go the back of the class? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Thanks!</SPAN></DIV> <DIV><SPAN></SPAN> </DIV> <DIV><SPAN>Jowita</SPAN></DIV><p>Message Edited by Flidias on <span class=date_text>05-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:59 AM</span>

[Teksun]

<div></div>It's been a LONG time, but throw a cheap shot in the mix. Even if it interupts just ONE spell it could help a bit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> EDIT: <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Throw in a few HO starters as well, even if they don't catch on, when they do they'll help  out <div></div><p>Message Edited by Teksun on <span class=date_text>05-08-2006</span> <span class=time_text>02:20 PM</span>

[Reish99]

<P>thats pretty good,</P> <P>     this is what i do.  start in stealth before tank pulls. hit take aim because this wont undo your stealth hit with hidden fire so you a lot of damage and have critical chance with take aim still up, from here i either hit triple shot or the heated shot, in either order but you can get both off within the time limit of take aim.  I do that for the maximum amount of arrows shot within the take aim time limit of 10 seconds.  hopefully during this you will crit a couple times and you have highest chance of proc'ing a poison too follow with crippling arrow to debuff and move into melee.  from here hit impede and drop the fire miti. of target, use corner here. then  hit (dont remember spell name, for me its surveil) the spell that lowers hate and puts you into stealth, directly followed by shadow flame and then lunge and hit hidden attack. throw heat strike, and any other range CA's that might be up.  this has been my experience when the group has a tank that knows how to hold aggro. oh and one more thing if you do any other CA's before you start in stealth take aim will stop stealth mode.</P> <P>mokujin of mithaniel marr</P> <P>47 ranger going on 70</P> <P>unrest </P>

[Jowita]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR> It's been a LONG time, but throw a cheap shot in the mix. Even if it interupts just ONE spell it could help a bit <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Aye, Cheap Shot is nice, but doesn't work against the ^^^ I've been fighting recently. So, I've sort of forgotten about it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> As for HOs, no one I've grouped with has mentioned wanting to do them. Not sure why, really. When I solo, I try to turn out as many HOs as I can. Ah well. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P>Jowita</P>

[Jowita]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Reish99 wrote:<BR> <P>thats pretty good,</P> <P>    this is what i do.  start in stealth before tank pulls. hit take aim because this wont undo your stealth hit with hidden fire so you a lot of damage and have critical chance with take aim still up, from here i either hit triple shot or the heated shot, in either order but you can get both off within the time limit of take aim.  I do that for the maximum amount of arrows shot within the take aim time limit of 10 seconds.  hopefully during this you will crit a couple times and you have highest chance of proc'ing a poison too follow with crippling arrow to debuff and move into melee.  from here hit impede and drop the fire miti. of target, use corner here. then  hit (dont remember spell name, for me its surveil) the spell that lowers hate and puts you into stealth, directly followed by shadow flame and then lunge and hit hidden attack. throw heat strike, and any other range CA's that might be up.  this has been my experience when the group has a tank that knows how to hold aggro. oh and one more thing if you do any other CA's before you start in stealth take aim will stop stealth mode.</P> <P>mokujin of mithaniel marr</P> <P>47 ranger going on 70</P> <P>unrest </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Hi Mokujin,</P> <P>With that strategy, how do you handle aggro? I'm sure you put Trick Shot in there somewhere--hopefully early! (And often!) Even with Trick Shot, I've sometimes stolen the aggro from the MT, and had to Stalk-->Divert to hand it back again. With Natural Instinct always up, though, this doesn't happen too often.</P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita</P>

[Reish99]

<P>this ha just been my experience because i usually group with same tank who is friend from real life who has adept3's of all his spells so he can hold aggro really well i do use trick shot when im in a group without him so you are right definetly throw trick shot in but remember that take aim wont stop stealth so you can get those attacks in with that high percent chance to crit.</P> <P>mokujin of mithaniel marr</P> <P>47 ranger going on 70</P> <P>unrest</P>

[Jowita]

<P>Interesting. All my ranged CAs are at Master I, so that may be why I sometimes steal the aggro away from the MT in a group, even after using Trick Shot. I hadn't considered that. Well, luckily there's Stalk <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> And yes, I rely on Steady Aim quite often, as I can quick-cast it as the MT is starting his pull. Coolio <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P> <P>Jowita</P>

[Prandtl]

I would also toss in a Corner while at ranger, just to bebuff the mob a bit more.  If it or my deaggros are up I will use them.  If it will be a long fight, I will also start off slowly, not using my heavy hitters for 15-20 seconds.  Enough time for the tank to build up a bit more aggro before I go all out.

[ShodinJiDo]

<P>One thing to remember as well is to stand in the "Sweet Spot" when dealing damage.</P> <P> </P> <P>The sweet spot is the point at which you can fire off ranged attacks and melee attacks without having to move.</P> <P> </P> <P>Just makes things a little easier when you don't have to keep moving back and forth. 8-)</P>

[Reish99]

i completely forgot about the sweet spot :robotwink:

[Jay]

Aye, Corner FTW, all debuffs are good. The only potential issue I see with that sequence is that you might unload a LOT of damage right up front, early in the fight. That Steady Aim first thing means a good potential for crits, which are nice, but with M1 ranged CAs you might be pulling a lot of hate right up front. But if that was a problem, it'd be pretty obvious, so I assume it's working - and if so, more power to ya, you're defitely on the right track. Just be careful later on as you get more ranged CAs; you may want to space those out later and throw some Evade and Surveil action in between. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact names of the CAs at that level.)

[Jowita]

<P>Cool, I'd never heard of a "sweet spot" for Rangers, but it makes sense. I'll experiment with that tonight. Should be fun!</P> <P>Jowita</P> <P> </P> <P>P.S. Hi, Kaeros! Thanks for the reassurance. It's nice to kinow that I'm doing something right. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P><p>Message Edited by Flidias on <span class=date_text>05-09-2006</span> <span class=time_text>01:58 PM</span>

[Jay]

<P>/waves</P> <P>I think you're doing more things right than you think you are. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </P>

[Jowita]

<P>Heh heh, thanks, sweetie. Now, if I could just find a good tank or two...</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Jay42 wrote:<BR> Aye, Corner FTW, all debuffs are good. The only potential issue I see with that sequence is that you might unload a LOT of damage right up front, early in the fight. That Steady Aim first thing means a good potential for crits, which are nice, but with M1 ranged CAs you might be pulling a lot of hate right up front. But if that was a problem, it'd be pretty obvious, so I assume it's working - and if so, more power to ya, you're defitely on the right track. Just be careful later on as you get more ranged CAs; you may want to space those out later and throw some Evade and Surveil action in between. (Sorry, I can't remember the exact names of the CAs at that level.)<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Once again Jay proves that despite what he may think, he knows our class, inside and out. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> I was gonna say that. Unloading up front is generally bad over all. Give the tank some time to get agro. Though if you find your grp just mowing the mobs down like so many blades of grass then by all means, get as much DMG in as fast as possible cuz the mob might not live long enough to agro you. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Jowita]

<P>Yep, that's how it's been recently, Stararrow (nice name, btw). Mid-20s groups, especially with six, tend to mow down mobs in not time at all, leaving me little chance to get in melee range to drop some debuffs on the mob(s). I swear, sometimes I don't even have time to use all my ranged CAs. Which means, more often than not, that it was one of my ranged CAs that finished the mob off. It's nice to see those big fat orange triple-digit numbers floating above the mobs' heads.</P> <P>Hrm...maybe I should start using Pounce just to make things interesting....</P> <P> </P> <P>Flid</P>

[Jay]

<BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flidias wrote: <P>Hrm...maybe I should start using Pounce just to make things interesting....</P> <P> <HR> <P></P></BLOCKQUOTE>Hell yeah you should! Any time we have a large group or even a couple groups, I'm Pouncin' like a true kittay ranger.  This was a late addition to my routine b/c that CA kinda sucked for a long time, but a while back it got boosted to some really decent damage. Plus, it's the only out-of-encounter AOE we get, so that can be useful when you're sure it's okay to damage multiple mobs at once.

[Star]

<DIV>Yeah the Pounce line is awesome. I use it whenever I can when there's grp mobs. I try to start off the combat stealthed so I don't have to waste time doing it during and then throw that off (I have Selection) and then follow with Rain of Arrows (a nice CA that you will love vs groups when you get the 1st verion at 50).</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Thanks about the name too. I like it. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Rangery and stuffs. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Jowita]

How to you manage hate with Pounce? Don't all the mobs not being engaged by the MT come to you like flies to shyit? Or will a quick Stalk make them all go away?

[Taubin]

<div><blockquote><hr>Flidias wrote:<div></div>How to you manage hate with Pounce? Don't all the mobs not being engaged by the MT come to you like flies to shyit? Or will a quick Stalk make them all go away?<hr></blockquote>As long as you have a decent tank, they should be starting out with, and continuasly spamming, their group aggro spells.  If they aren't, start complaining about them not turning the mobs correctly and keep pulling the aggro, they will get the point eventually. Hell, now that I think of it, even if they are pulling and spamming properly, keep complaining about not turning the mobs, there are too many lvl 50+ tanks out there that look at you like your stupid when you ask them to turn a mob, start teaching them young I say <span>:smileywink:</span></div>

[Jowita]

<P>I didn't know that tanks even HAD group aggro CAs. Holy crap! I must be a noob...</P> <P>As to "educating" tanks to turn mobs, what has been your experience with this? Seems that there are so many "sensitive" players out there who take instant offense at anyone telling them what to do. You know what I mean? It's the whole "don't tell me how to play my class" syndrome. If it were me, I'd welcome the opportunity to learn something new. But that's me. Be that as it may, it's such a temendous help when tanks turn the mobs. What I can't stand is having a tank back a mob up against a wall, leaving me NO room to get behind it. Grr! That's a real pet peeve of mine. Heh, makes me almost want to just stand there and /em yawn all over the place. You know? Like, get a hint, buddy!</P> <P>Really, I'm not grumpy. But like I've said numerous times arleady: A Good Tank Is Like Good Sex. There's never enough to go around. </P> <P>Or something to that effect. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Flidias on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:51 AM</span>

[Teksun]

Oh thats EASY... wipe the group a few times saying "sorry I needed to see their BACKS"... <div></div>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Teksun wrote:<BR>Oh thats EASY... wipe the group a few times saying "sorry I needed to see their BACKS"... <BR> <BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>/agree

[Jowita]

<P>LOL, good one! But then someone will blurt out the obvious: "Why the f*uck didn't you evac us? Waaah!"</P> <P>Then you come back with: "Sorry, but it was still refreshing from the LAST evac."</P><p>Message Edited by Flidias on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>10:59 AM</span>

[Star]

After the 2nd time I got yelled at FOR evacing I no longer evac unless told to by either the MT or the Healer. :p

[Jowita]

<P>Yeah, I can understand that. These days, death is nothing more than a minor annoyance. I mean, it sucks to die, sure, but dying doesn't really...well, SUCK. And you'll always have group members who swear up and down that they could have finished off the mob. Heh, the only time I plan to use evac now is when I'm soloing.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jay]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flidias wrote:<BR> <P>I didn't know that tanks even HAD group aggro CAs. Holy crap! I must be a noob...</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Okay, let's be clear here to avoid confusion (and please correct me if I'm wrong or fill in with details if you can): All tanks get "group" taunts, meaning it raises hate with every member of a single encounter. Some tank classes - zerkers, among others - get skills that increase their hate with an AE attack, so it can effectively taunt several encounters at once. But generally speaking, most tanks cannot just gain hate from several seperate mobs all at once. So you're right, you need to be careful with the Pounce attack, b/c it *will* hit several separate mobs if they're within range of your target, and there's no guarantee the tank has been able to taunt them all.</P> <P>So yes, judicious use of hate reducers is always good, but between the Evade, Stalk, and Instinct lines, I don't find that Pounce regularly pulls aggro. Usually I'm careful to only use it against a single mob, and if I know it'll hit multiple mobs, I just make sure it won't cause a serious problem if I DO end up pulling aggro for a minute. (I use it a lot of the time when clearing large mobs of greens, for instance - even if they do come after me for a few seconds, it won't really cause a problem for the group.)<BR></P>

[Jowita]

<P>Thanks for clearing that up, Kaeros. I like to use Pounce by the south griffon tower in Antonica, right after crossing the bridge. There's a group of 4-5 gray gnolls there that I enjoy killing for the faction gain I get with the Herd.</P> <P> </P> <P> </P>

[Jowita]

<P>Hoo boy, what's this? A NEW forums bug? I can't remember the last time I double-posted. Grr...:smileymad:</P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P> <P> </P><p>Message Edited by Flidias on <span class=date_text>05-11-2006</span> <span class=time_text>05:02 PM</span>

[Prandtl]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> Flidias wrote:<BR> <P>Thanks for clearing that up, Kaeros. I like to use Pounce by the south griffon tower in Antonica, right after crossing the bridge. There's a group of 4-5 gray gnolls there that I enjoy killing for the faction gain I get with the Herd.</P> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>You too?  I kill them as revenge, because they killed me a few times when I was a youngster</P> <P>When I'm feeling really vengeful I'll go into Stormhold and kill the skeletal cavaliers.  Those guys used to pwn me<BR></P>

[Jowita]

LOL, revenge is sweet, is it not? What was the name of that dark elf guy in EQ1 who used to kill folks in North Ro? Man, everyone used to talk about killing him, over and over and over...

[Star]

Dorn D'Bynn I believe and you can get revenge on him in DoF in EQ2. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Prandtl]

I wish I knew of a way to get revenge on those [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing chasms in Permafrost..  I think I've died to those more then anything else in the game

[Gareorn]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jwmaynar wrote:<BR> Dorn D'Bynn I believe and you can get revenge on him in DoF in EQ2. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>Really?  Where does that peckerwood spawn?  I've probably seen him a hundred times and never made the connection.

[Star]

You need to do the Ring of Fate quest to get to him. He pops in two instances that you can only access if someone in your grp is on that step of the quest.<p>Message Edited by jwmaynar on <span class=date_text>05-12-2006</span> <span class=time_text>11:06 AM</span>

[Jowita]

REALLY? Holy crap, now I gotta buy DoF...

[Star]

<P>I will warn, it is a long and painful quest line that requires you to change your faction in Maj'Dul twice (so that's raising your faction with one court, then changing it to the second, then changing it again to the third) before you can even start the line of quests. It ends in a relatively nice T6 fabled ring that has a interesting clicky effect. :smileyvery-happy:</P> <P>I myself am hoping to return to Crushbone and get some revenge on D'Vinn... maybe.</P>