Hawk Dive always going to break stealth

[Star]

<DIV>From a post in the Items and EQ forum: "I have spoken to a dev about fixing the mechanic behind the pet breaking your stealth and was told that it will NOT be fixed"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV>

[Sulas]

That really pisses me off.Now, the big question: when I get to that level, is the skill worth finding and at what App/Adept level does it's worth max out?<div></div>

[Ranja]

<P>For all Rangers health, I think it is best if we just stop asking for changes. They have obviously decreed us to be fixed and are not going to revisit us. They have bigger fish to fry now (conjurers). We are working as intended and no amount of feedback or constructive thoughts are going to get them to come back. Who cares that there still are glaring weaknesses and bugs in our class? SOE does not.</P> <P>You will notice several long time posting Rangers are very quiet around here. Not much going on on these boards anymore. Alot of the rangers have just gotten fed up and stopped posting. We are not going to get our bows fixed, hawk dive will not be fixed, our DPS is not going to be adjusted, arrow consumption might get looked at, stream will forever be broken..There is nothing wrong with our class.</P> <P> </P>

[Taubin]

Yes it is worth it, I use it a bit when solo.  Sometimes in group.  Right now I just have it at adept 1, so, I can't answer the upgrade thing.  It makes a decent pulling tool when solo also...  Just my 2cp<div></div>

[Star]

<DIV> <DIV>Note (which I ment to add, but forgot to re-add when my original post got eaten by the invalid HTML thingy) that this is hersay. I'm gonna see if I can check with the party who posted it tonight and see who they might have talked to. I still have yet to come up with a PvE (I can see PvP reasons) that a pet, any pet, attacking a mob should break invis.</DIV></DIV>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> bentgate wrote:<BR> <P>For all Rangers health, I think it is best if we just stop asking for changes. They have obviously decreed us to be fixed and are not going to revisit us. They have bigger fish to fry now (conjurers). We are working as intended and no amount of feedback or constructive thoughts are going to get them to come back. Who cares that there still are glaring weaknesses and bugs in our class? SOE does not.</P> <P>You will notice several long time posting Rangers are very quiet around here. Not much going on on these boards anymore. Alot of the rangers have just gotten fed up and stopped posting. We are not going to get our bows fixed, hawk dive will not be fixed, our DPS is not going to be adjusted, arrow consumption might get looked at, <STRONG>stream will forever be broken</STRONG>..There is nothing wrong with our class.</P> <P> </P><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>That's not true, one of my friends spoke to a coder at Fan Faire that said they are aware that SoA is not working right and are looking for options to fix it. My guess is the coding is complicated. It's basically a spell that makes a timer that lets you do nothing other than cast another spell over and over. It and hail of steel are the only things like it in the game that I'm aware of. I'll give them the time to work on it as long as I know it's on someone's TODO list somewhere.

[Balerius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jwmaynar wrote:<BR> <BR>That's not true, one of my friends spoke to a coder at Fan Faire that said they are aware that SoA is not working right and are looking for options to fix it. My guess is the coding is complicated. It's basically a spell that makes a timer that lets you do nothing other than cast another spell over and over. It and hail of steel are the only things like it in the game that I'm aware of. I'll give them the time to work on it as long as I know it's on someone's TODO list somewhere.<BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P>Actually, SoA is NOT basically a spell.  It used to be a spell.  In fact, it used to be a DoT.  It could be resisted as a spell would be resisted.  Problems with SoA were setup when it was changed from a spell DoT to a CA that employs actual ranged attacks.  The problems weren't apparent at first.  They became evident when code was added to implement a minimum range for casting and for each arrow as well as when SoE decided to make multiple attack CAs only proc off of the first hit.  Probably compounding the coding problem now is a "casting time reduction check" on each arrow.  With all these added checks during the execution of SoA, I simply don't think the server-client interaction is able to keep up.  Hence the periodic slow-downs.</P> <P>The fix could be done several ways:</P> <UL> <LI>Remove the minimum range check on each arrow</LI> <LI>Allow every arrow to proc</LI> <LI>Return the CA to it's previous DoT status</LI></UL> <P>The above options would have the side benefit of increasing our dps using the CA under certain conditions.  And we do need our DPS increased, despite what any dev might think who might be too lazy to look beyond some artificial composite "average".<BR></P>

[Star]

<DIV>1) You're mincing words. Spell, CA, whatever. If you want to get technical it was never a spell ever and is not now, it's always been a CA. I was using the word interchangably because I figured people would understand since rangers only get CAs. The *point* I was making was that the coders are aware and looking at it.</DIV>

[Jayad]

<P>Yes we're "fixed" now which means we won't get much attention. </P> <P>Question... Does the hawk break every scout's stealth or just the Ranger's who cast it?</P>

[roblinb]

<P>SoA was "fixed" because we could just stand there and cast it on triple up heroics (mobs not meant to be taken down solo)... even named ones, and just stand there while we burned it down getting all kinds of master and legendary drops.  I figured it out in CT and went there all the time to get great drops.  Yeah SOE really screwed us over with the whole stream ability, and I doubt they will ever put it back to the way it was.</P> <P>I dunno if they nerfed drops in general but I did notice that in Lyseum the other day our 4 group raid party didn't even get anything beyond a lil wooden chest while killing all sorts of raid mobs :smileyvery-happy:</P>

[Balerius]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jwmaynar wrote:<BR> <DIV>1) You're mincing words. Spell, CA, whatever. If you want to get technical it was never a spell ever and is not now, it's always been a CA. I was using the word interchangably because I figured people would understand since rangers only get CAs. The *point* I was making was that the coders are aware and looking at it.</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE> <P><BR>Actually, I'm not mincing words.  It was actually a <EM>spell</EM>.  It could be resisted as a <EM>spell</EM> (you would even get the message that it was resisted).  An illusionist or bard with reflection would actually reflect the damage back on a ranger (the reflect spell in case you don't know only reflects <EM>spells</EM>).  A bard casting Precision of the Maestro on a ranger who then used SoA would actually cause every arrow of SoA to proc a divine proc from the PoM buff (PoM in case you don't know only works on spells that are cast).  The change in SoA to make it actually "fire" arrows instead of it being a DoT goes to the heart of why it's currently broken.  That's why I made the point...not to "mince words" with you.</P> <P>But back on topic....</P> <P>Hawk Dive is not the only thing that will break stealth.  The pet from the Truesilver Tunic and the Windrazor are the same and they both break stealth.  From my experience, any swarm pet cast by the scout will break stealth.  However, it only breaks it when the pet "hits" the target.  So if you use Longblade with the pet from Hawk Dive or pet from Truesilver Tunic/Windrazor, sometimes you have enough time in stealth to use a fast CA (e.g., Ranger's Blade) sometimes you don't depending on the timing of the pet's hit relative to when Longblade puts you into stealth.  Of course, if you have one of the pets active when you try to use surveil or sneak, your'e pretty much screwed if the reason you used one of those CAs was to do a longer casting follow-on attack (e.g, Veiled Fire).</P>

[Roark]

There are only two real times use Hawk at the moment (have a Master 1 version of it currently). 1) Casting Hawk just prior to casting stream of arrow for both damage reduction and small dps boost (on average 200 point crushing damage every two seconds for the duration with about a 30% miss ratio).2) Duoing with my druid partner and I need a mob off tanked briefly while I finish off the first mob (to help reduce healer aggro on the 2nd mob so I can grab aggro faster).

[Ravenwind]

<DIV>I spoke to the skill / spell dev at Fan Faire and asked him about fixing the stealth issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason it works this way is to prevent ANY class from having their pet solo while they remain safely invis.  Thus any attack by your pet will break your invis.  It does suck for us, but I can understand the reasoning after he explained it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ravenwind Arrowstorm</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger of DROW</DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV>

[Star]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RavenwindBR wrote:<BR> <DIV>I spoke to the skill / spell dev at Fan Faire and asked him about fixing the stealth issue.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason it works this way is to prevent ANY class from having their pet solo while they remain safely invis.  Thus any attack by your pet will break your invis.  It does suck for us, but I can understand the reasoning after he explained it.</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>Ravenwind Arrowstorm</DIV> <DIV>70 Ranger of DROW</DIV> <DIV>Unrest</DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE>Could you talk to him again and explain that pet classes safely solo even now without being able to stay invis? That's a good theory that making the pet break invis will stop that sort of thing, but in practice it doesn't work. If they're not going to fix it over all they need to take a look at making this spell the exception to the rule. I think I said above, it's a really neat idea but due to the underlying pet mechanics that all pet spells have to abide by (stealth breaking being on and hate trasfer on pet death being a second) the spell becomes fairly useless outside of soloing.<BR>

[Carna]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> jwmaynar wrote:<BR> <DIV>From a post in the Items and EQ forum: "I have spoken to a dev about fixing the mechanic behind the pet breaking your stealth and was told that it will NOT be fixed"</DIV> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV><img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></DIV><BR> <HR> </BLOCKQUOTE><BR>I was talking to a friend about whether SOE will ever be able to recapture the market dominance of its EQ1 glory days and he said that will NOT be happening.

[jarlaxle8]

<BR> <BLOCKQUOTE> <HR> RavenwindBR wrote:<BR> <DIV> </DIV> <DIV>The reason it works this way is to prevent ANY class from having their pet solo while they remain safely invis.  <HR> </DIV></BLOCKQUOTE> <P>huh? that doesn't make sense.<BR>pet classes can sty back and let their pet work, no matter if invis or not.<BR>and i assume pets will raise agro to the pet controller as well, so you'll be on the mobs agro list and your gonna get beaten on when the pet is gone, no matter if you stealth or invis; agro isn't whiped with stealth.</P> <P>---------------------------<BR><A href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204" target=_self>Ryilan Nightbreeze </A><BR>---------------------------<BR></P>