Not so optimistic about the LU putting us where we need to be.

[klepp]

<div>Reason i say so is first off, most of the damage increases are going to melee skills, which means the damage surely isnt going to be substantial.  Secondly the bow CA's taht are being adjusted arent even our big damage ones. Now the reason i posted this is... during my raid tonight... i consistantly parsed lower than the guild swash, the guild bruiser, and a monk recruit.Before you all start whining about how i dont know how to play my toon and i suck ect... pre LU i was on top bar only the conjuror fighting it out w/ me.I have 13 masters im using 10 of which are T7.  Im in nothing worse than t6 fabled and i have 25aa with max ranged crit aa.</div><div> </div><div>for those rangers who say we're where we're supposed to be and we're not fugged up.... .... smoke another one.</div>

[Draughi]

<div></div>Klepp post some of your parse #'s.  We raided last nite....I was consistantly in the top 5....yeah, losing out to conjs/necs the whole time, however I was on par with the assassin and doing about100 DPS on average better than the swashie's brigands...who BTW are lvl 70...I am 66.  What level are you?  You say you running 13 masters in T7.  I've got 2....cover fire and the focus aim line I took for master 2.  I just can't fathom how you are parsing that low.  Not calling BS...what tactics you using?  Jousting at all?  Dropping your piercing dots?  What poisons?

[klepp]

<div></div>oh yea i was in top 5... but not with assassins or wizards or warlocks..... i was being beaten by Tanks and Rogues...... there is no need for debate,  it simply should not be that way.

[klepp]

<div>no not jousting, was on an ae'ing mob in Trial of the Awakened.  Using Adeste poisons till i run out, and i was level 69 as were they.  Firing off all my ranged CA's even w/out using any melee should keep me beyond atleast the fighters right?    I can post some of the parse info if its really neccessary but point was just that i was lower than the bruiser, monk, swash on every parse thus far  (posted this during downtime)</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Guy De Alsace]

The changes are supposed to improve our chances at soloing so I thought. In groups I'm doing okay, certainly no complaints but soloing is just pure frustration at the moment, especially in KoS with social aggro. Be nice to be able to body pull with confidence as a Ranger and avoid social aggro problems...Lvl 63 Ranger, couple of fabled, one master and lots of adept 1's.<div></div>

[klepp]

<div></div><p>yea it seems like soloing it'll help a bit, but not in a group setting.  And in a gorup we're not supposed to be "okay" we're supposed to be t1 (top) dps.   So far, things are miiighty screwed up.   </p><p>If i wanted to parse less than a monk or a rogue.. i woulda rolled  a monk or a rogue!   I picked a dps class cuase its what i enjoy.. then they go switching around dps....   </p><p>anyhow beating a dead horse =p</p>

[klepp]

<div></div>well on most recent parse   going 100% balls out  i out dps'd the bruiser by 13dps and the swash outdps'd me by 70dps....   ....  somethings not right /scratches head

[KannaWhoopass]

<div></div><p>I was going to start my own post about the same thing</p><p>I keep hoping that AA would have been the equalizer ..it wasmt</p><p> </p><p>we did our 3rd t7 raid</p><p>i finish behind wizards warlocks conj Illusionists monks brigands swashies assasins. not in that order but always the same</p><p>After 2.5 hours of raids i never once finished #1 in DPS not once.</p><p>We are a slow pulling guild so all of my ca's are up . except snipershot . Even in fights where i used sniper shot i didnt beat a monk.</p><p>What the hell!!!</p><p>Fix this garbage !! im now low man on the totem pole .. My guildmates now know im gimped beause of the parses which are broadcast during raids .</p><p>Im excluded from groups going to HOF cause i dont offer top notch DPS to complement the group. I dont have any buffs to offer them and i dont dispatch or root and my utility from poison is borderline useless .. Yay my poison proced with the mob in the red with 2 seconds left to live ... total crap.</p><p>I have been critical of this gimping from before the get go when it was on test. I thought that perhaps the AAs would compensate .. they dont!</p><p>The changes which are planed are less than inspiring . Awsome now i can get hand to hand increase so i can run in and die to AOE to crank out some extra dps.</p><p>I have a lame [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] bird who when active doesnt let me use any of my stealth attacks!!!</p><p> </p><p>The fact that all mage classes except coercres are parsing higher than me is not acceptable.</p><p>Monks are parsing higher by 100 dps . Zerkers beat me // i mean my god a tank and i was full out , i need to go all out to break even with a necro pet.</p><p>My patience is at an end .. Im lvl 70 already and the only content i have left is raids and farming AA points .</p><p>If i get no joy from raids and groups are not selecting me to go to good AA point zones ..Im done ...</p><p>I used to love this game .. my title was the loyal ......i wish i could change it to the nerfed </p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Draughith wrote:<div></div>Klepp post some of your parse #'s.  We raided last nite....I was consistantly in the top 5....yeah, losing out to conjs/necs the whole time, however I was on par with the assassin and doing about100 DPS on average better than the swashie's brigands...who BTW are lvl 70...I am 66.  What level are you?  You say you running 13 masters in T7.  I've got 2....cover fire and the focus aim line I took for master 2.  I just can't fathom how you are parsing that low.  Not calling BS...what tactics you using?  Jousting at all?  Dropping your piercing dots?  What poisons?<hr></blockquote>You're using every CA you've got including the melee ones... he's not.

[klepp]

<div></div>nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.

[Shadesl]

lol I didn't even have to play the changes to see we probably wouldn't be on par with the others. Once I saw the changed skills & damage I figured we would be lucky to get get much more then 50dps out the changes. Sadest part is I ended up soaking another 15p into mine when they said they were increasing our damage/skills, the whole time a little voice in my head was saying "don't do it, you'll be sorry".That being said I'll still try the changes. But I have a feeling my ranger is a dead character until I can respec him to assasian. It's a good thing I have many many alts, however it's to bad I don't enjoy one of my favorites anymore.<div></div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.<hr></blockquote>Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?</span></div>

[Writer Cal]

<blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:<div><span>Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?</span></div><hr></blockquote>Thank you!

[KannaWhoopass]

<div>Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is</div><div> </div><div>Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid</div><div>it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS</div><div>it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.</div><div>It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.</div><div>It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS</div><div> </div><div>It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )</div><div> </div><div>to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .</div><div> </div><div>a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong</div><div>other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.<hr></blockquote>Funny, I never read that we would never have to melee on a raid when I chose this class.Where did you get the idea that was the case?  During the 4 months we were overpowered and didn't have to work very hard for insane DPS?When are you people going to get the idea that 'being fixed' is not the same thing as 'putting us where we were pre-LU#20'?</span></div><hr></blockquote><p>A lot of Rangers really very badly need to listen to this chap, or flat out roll a different class.</p><p>If you aren't using all your CAs, don't report your dsp. Certainly don't report your dps in comparison with somebody else who is using all their CAs.... you can be [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure the Assassins, Swashbucklers and Brigands on your raid are using all their CAs.</p><p>Absolutely the devs broke the Ranger class with lu20, but regarless of what comes with the next update Rangers will have to get used to working for their dps.</p>

[klepp]

<div>umm writer cal.... you guys  MUST be clueless.   No one said anything about wehre we were Pre LU20.... i mean yea that was nice but i think everyone knows we're not going back to that.  However, without some more serious re working, the utility/soloablity we had is far down if not gone... and our dps is more like 1/2'd  ...   So.. if your ok w/ that fine... but im not.</div>

[klepp]

<div></div>again ... why not... pre lu20 using nothing but ranged i was always top or 2nd/3rd on the dps list.. ALWAYS. and spending a few plat a night that sounded about right to me.    Its part of the ranger fluff.  Christ how often do you hear your raid leaders say "get int ehre and melee rangers"   they dont, cause its a perk to bringing a ranger to a raid, damage from the outside.  Same reason many rangers chose to wear crafted, it has no resists (yet) and they were fine w/ that becuase they were NEVER in ae range.   And if you think using some melee arts that do an 8th of the damage of most bow ca's is gonna fix us, your just looiking for and excuse to suck some sony butt cause on non ae raid mobs... if i melee... guess who still isnt where he's supposed to be.    I know i know i must suck, so what id love is to group w/ one of you's  maybe onthe same server.. then hear your tune when the parser shows the same [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] thing.

[Zeijandi]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>KannaWhoopass wrote:<div>Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is</div><div> </div><div>Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid</div><div>it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS</div><div>it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.</div><div>It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.</div><div>It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS</div><div> </div><div>It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )</div><div> </div><div>to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .</div><div> </div><div>a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong</div><div>other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>The only standards that I know of to which SoE is tuning rangers is that we are to be tier 1 damage, but not number 1 in damage.  After that, I haven't seen any dev comments concerning more specifically what their idea for ranger damage is.  Old-school rangers know that the only way we ever did significant damage before balance was broken in LU13 was by using a combination of heavy-hitting ranged arts and than all of our big-dmg melee arts until our big-dmg ranged arts cycled up.  This was on raids and in groups.  I believe we won't be in such a dire shape as we were pre-LU13 after LU21, but we won't be ridiculous like we were after LU13.</span></div>

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Your insane dps was from a screwy game mechanic, soe knocked the crud out of you with the nerf bat without compensation, a fix is incoming, be patient you'll be brought up soon.

[LoreLady]

I am VERY optimistic about the upcomming changes. Being easier to solo, doing more damage, having MANY of our abilities increased, giving focus fire a 1 min recast, increasing bow attacks by 33%.With focus fire and the auto ranged attack being increased I am overjoyed, I can keep around 600-700 dps with my auto attack with focus fire (great ability when your longshank, and ranged abilitys are in refresh) with this being redone, I forsee 1k dps while this ability is being used. For those who dont know, it only lasts 10 seconds so its not like its constant.What has been posted has been at 25, and 32 str with the screenshots in the ranger pics. So, those master 1's will be similar to app 1's to most rangers out there. Thus there should be near double the damage advertised.I can actually see SoE pulling some of these abilities back due to overpoweredness IMO.

[Ranja]

<div></div><p>I know it is hard to be patient in times like these. And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. We will never be back to where we were pre-LU-20. Let me repeat - never. Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed. We are going to have to use all of our combat CAs now and I, for one, like the new style. Fighting is a much more active role for me now. Before LU-20 I could turn on auto-attack and go AFK and still parse in the top of my group and raids due to all the procs going off like fireworks. Now my class takes skill, attention, and thought to play to maximize DPS as all other DPS classes should.</p><p>The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this.</p><p>I for one am glad it has not taken SOE a year to address our deficiencies. I know some of you might say that we should never be in this situation and that being glad for that is like being glad that they did not kick me in the face when I was down. At the end of the day, we all play our Rangers for different reasons as another post pointed out. These changes will make alot of people sit back and re-evaluate why they play there Ranger. I, for one, am a lifetime Ranger - just can't see myself playing any other class. Good, bad, gimped, uber (usually gimped<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  - I will always be a Ranger.</p><p>Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there.</p><p>Elbryan64 Ranger</p>

[LoreLady]

"And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience <img border="0" src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16" width="16">" - I thought there was a huge conspirasy where SoE were gods among ants?<font color="#cc0033"> Why should gods wait on us ants? /sarcsm.</font>"Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed." <font color="#cc0066">-I believe that those days are still among us, with the recent changes in focus fire. And I have a feeling they will change stream of arrows.</font>"The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this." <font color="#cc0033">I believe that we are still t1 dps even with the changes that have gone through, it just takes a good machine, extreeme performance and lots of mashing and concentration.</font>"Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there."  <font color="#6633ff">To be as cruel AS I CAN to other people. I mean think about the tactics we use. "Sneaks up behind bentgate, draws back my bowstring and shoots him in the back (backshot), continues shooting him while he comes screaming forward with his daggers (silly ranger left his bow on his horse). Waits for bent gate to get close then kicks him in the junk (cheapshot) goes behind him and stabs him in the back afew times (longshank/direblade), bent gate turns around - shoots him in the eye (point blank shot), pulls the arrow out (arrow rip)..- Typical fight.I mean THINK for a second on what rangers really do, in no way are we nice people or gracefull. We live in tree's, we are not honorable. Why do you think we live in trees anyways? Cause we got kicked out of town <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hell atleast assassins have the decentcy to stay in melee combat.</font>

[Shaulin Dolamite]

<div></div>My only real concern is, and this is for the scout class, if after everything is all said and done, for scouts to be T1 dps we have to use rare arrows and poisons (pay for our dps), which isnt a small amount of money, what perks do we get from it. If it cant be highest dps fine, but there should be something for being the most expensive class to play!

[Ranja]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:"And god knows, SOE does not deserve our patience <img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16" width="16">" - I thought there was a huge conspirasy where SoE were gods among ants?<font color="#cc0033"> Why should gods wait on us ants? /sarcsm.</font>"Gone are the days of just sitting back and shooting bow CAs and letting auto-attack pluck away while we refreshed." <font color="#cc0066">-I believe that those days are still among us, with the recent changes in focus fire. And I have a feeling they will change stream of arrows.</font>"The changes SOE has made will definately help. You cannot deny that. Will they bring us back into T1? I don't know but I am going to wait until they go live before I start complaining. Let them go live, give them a week, and then calmy assess the deficiences if any are still left. Balancing is a constant in MMOs like death and taxes. Try to keep an even keel because remember other classes have gone through this as well and will continue to go through this." <font color="#cc0033">I believe that we are still t1 dps even with the changes that have gone through, it just takes a good machine, extreeme performance and lots of mashing and concentration.</font>"Why do you play a Ranger? If it is to be T1 DPS, SOE will get us there. If it is to be Uber - Death from Afar - Only use half my CAs - we will never be there."  <font color="#6633ff">To be as cruel AS I CAN to other people. I mean think about the tactics we use. "Sneaks up behind bentgate, draws back my bowstring and shoots him in the back (backshot), continues shooting him while he comes screaming forward with his daggers (silly ranger left his bow on his horse). Waits for bent gate to get close then kicks him in the junk (cheapshot) goes behind him and stabs him in the back afew times (longshank/direblade), bent gate turns around - shoots him in the eye (point blank shot), pulls the arrow out (arrow rip)..- Typical fight.I mean THINK for a second on what rangers really do, in no way are we nice people or gracefull. We live in tree's, we are not honorable. Why do you think we live in trees anyways? Cause we got kicked out of town <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Hell atleast assassins have the decentcy to stay in melee combat.</font><hr></blockquote><p>Yes LoreLady, my point exactly - I love the silly ranger dance and missed it after the CU. I also love your cheapshot analogy - kicking him in the family jewels! <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I play a Ranger for all of those skills it takes. Plus, I have played a couple of other classes and kept running off cliffs to my death...lol. Seriously, until you lose track, invis, and safefall you have no idea how great those skills are.</p><p>Elbryan64 Ranger</p><p> </p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>God, I'm ashamed to be a ranger, you guys are worse than the sorceror's as of late.</p><p>Why don't instead of speculating and doomsaying we, I don't know, maybe wait for the changes to go live? Or would that make too much sense.</p><p>From just seeing the changes I know we will be right where we should be.</p><p>Get a Grip and Learn to play your class and you'll be T1 Dps easily.</p>

[Fennir]

what do u know about ranger khalan u nooblet if im not doing 1200 dps while i'm afk then screw this class AND YOU<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:what do u know about ranger khalan u nooblet if im not doing 1200 dps while i'm afk then screw this class AND YOU<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>but omg It shouldn't take skill or effort to be t1 dps, we're rangers! it should just be automatic. Why Should we have to use every skill we have to be T1, using skills is for losers.</p><p>Infact they should replace all our skills with a single ability called "Tier 1" and when we press it we automatically do 1500dps!!11on3!!</p>

[Fennir]

but part of my fluff is that i only need half my skillsDONT TAKE AWAY MY FLUFF<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div>I am in top dps tier on every raid mob where melee have to joust, that's more than enough for me <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ( and it seems like every other named raid has a bad ae these days).</div><div>That and seeing the melee ( bruisers/monks/assassins and co) frustration each time they get caught in the AE while I am peacefully shooting the mob from outside its range....</div><p>As for casters I sure wouldn't want to be in their shoes.</p><p>Did you notice that for every expansion auto attacks damage increas by more than 75% when skills increase at best by 50%, if not less ?</p><p>That does not bode well for casters that only rely on skills for their damage ( for classes like monks and berserkers the auto attack damage is now the main part of their damage..)</p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:40 AM</span></p>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>/agree with Tobias and Khalan</p><p>Beyond that, this thread isn't really worth a response. Roll a necro.</p>

[Kaleyen]

Curious, what parser is most used?  I want to parse me on my Ranger (who's level 40) in groups then also parse my Monk (who's 62 atm) in groups. I do find it curious that it was mentioned that Monks are out DPS'ing some rangers here, reason why I say that is because if a Monk doesn't use any of their abilities, just goes off of auto attack we only lose a few DPS.  One of our charms I guess you can kinda say.<div></div>

[Fennir]

<a href="http://home.maine.rr.com/eqaditu/ACT/" target="_blank">Advanced Combat Tracker</a> is the generally accepted standard, because it's easy, has amazing functionality, and is just about as detailed as possible.Also, for the record, the group I'm in 75% of my playtime includes an equal level monk with 90% masters and great gear.  He can only out-DPS me when I'm not playing close to my full potential (aka being lazy).  Take that for what you will.<div></div>

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:but part of my fluff is that i only need half my skillsDONT TAKE AWAY MY FLUFF<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>OMG YOU ARE SO TEH RIGHT. MY FLUFF IS NOW GONE!</p><p>Geez. Jay is right. OP, go roll a Necro or a Conj. Then you can stand WAAAAAAAAYYYY back and just send in the pets.</p><p>Khalan is right, and so are the others that said the same, wait for the changes to go live. See what you can do with them. If we're not where we should be the Devs will re-tweak.</p><p>On the parser question I use ACT on just about every fight. <a href="http://act.webhop.net" target="_blank">http://act.webhop.net</a></p>

[Racmo]

<div></div><p>--------------------------------------------------</p><p>Why don't instead of speculating and doomsaying we, I don't know, maybe wait for the changes to go live? Or would that make too much sense.</p><p>----------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>Maybe because that didn't work so well for LU20?  And instead of seeing buffs on test, we're seeing nerfs also, take point blank shot for instance.....Now just WHY did that need to be nerfed?</p><p> </p><p>Tobi</p><p>52Ranger</p>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Maybe because that didn't work so well for LU20?<hr></blockquote>Um, how do you compare incoming nerfs and incoming buffs.  They're sort of.. the opposite.None of us took LU#20 lying down.</span></div>

[Racmo]

<div>If the point of the test changes is to help us Solo better, (That was one of the objectives stated by Lockeye.), then nerfing PBshot and replacing it with another 4sec stun doesn't really change the solo ability does it?</div><div> </div><div>So to summarize it.</div><div> </div><div>Cheap shot was the stun to help solo.  It was changed.</div><div>Soloers are gravitating towards PBshot as an alternative.  It's having it's time reduced</div><div>A new stun is going in...4 sec root.</div><div> </div><div>So where are we?</div><div> </div><div>The end result is the cheap shot stun has been replaced with a 4 sec root.  After all the gyrations, we have a less viable tool than what we had before LU20?(A stun is a lot better than a root)  Looking at it cynically, have we received a buff to our solo ability in this regard?</div><div> </div><div>And you can compare buffs and nerfs by looking at the whole picture.  You compare the "package" of changes going in on the next LU and see what the overall effect is.   Will the DPS increase..probably.  Will soloers now have more tools to solo?  I personally do not believe there is a significant impact in that area.</div><div> </div><div>I'm still playing my ranger.  I'm both positive and negative about things.  It is what it is.  But I'm not going to pretend that I believe the changes are accomplish what the stated objective is.  Do I know for certain?  No.  And if it in fact it turns out to be sufficient, I have no problem admitting it.  I will give feedback until that time though.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>52 Ranger</div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div>If the point of the test changes is to help us Solo better, (That was one of the objectives stated by Lockeye.), then nerfing PBshot and replacing it with another 4sec stun doesn't really change the solo ability does it?</div><div> </div><div>So to summarize it.</div><div> </div><div>Cheap shot was the stun to help solo.  It was changed.</div><div>Soloers are gravitating towards PBshot as an alternative.  It's having it's time reduced</div><div>A new stun is going in...4 sec root.</div><div> </div><div>So where are we?</div><div> </div><div>The end result is the cheap shot stun has been replaced with a 4 sec root.  After all the gyrations, we have a less viable tool than what we had before LU20?(A stun is a lot better than a root)  Looking at it cynically, have we received a buff to our solo ability in this regard?</div><div> </div><div>And you can compare buffs and nerfs by looking at the whole picture.  You compare the "package" of changes going in on the next LU and see what the overall effect is.   Will the DPS increase..probably.  Will soloers now have more tools to solo?  I personally do not believe there is a significant impact in that area.</div><div> </div><div>I'm still playing my ranger.  I'm both positive and negative about things.  It is what it is.  But I'm not going to pretend that I believe the changes are accomplish what the stated objective is.  Do I know for certain?  No.  And if it in fact it turns out to be sufficient, I have no problem admitting it.  I will give feedback until that time though.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>52 Ranger</div><hr></blockquote><p>Cheap shot description was changed, it's effect was however never changed. It has always been a 6 second stun on no arrows or arrows down mobs and still works that way today....</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:34 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

Umm, racmoore, cheap shot hasn't changed since LU#13, at which point it was made <b>better.</b>It's been a 6 second stun on no-arrow mobs and 2 seconds on any non-epic heroic since.And to be honest, at rank 4 PBS is still going to be close to 3 seconds.  I'll still be using it constantly.<div></div>

[Racmo]

<div></div><div>----------------</div><div>It's been a 6 second stun on no-arrow mobs and 2 seconds on any non-epic heroic since.----------------</div><div> </div><div>This is interesting.  It would explain a few things.  However, help me with something.  Sometimes on down arrows I get a fairly long stun.  However, on normal and 1 up arrow solo mobs I can't get behind the mob by runnin through before it turns with me.  I know it hit as I heard the sound and saw the dizzy effect.  I assumed that it had been nerfed on anything not down arrow.  If this is the case then I retract my statement above and apologize for misunderstanding.  It hasn't been of use to me much lately and I assumed it was a nerf instead of something I was doing.  Which is why I've been using PBshot. </div><div> </div><div>And at my level it's more dmg to get behind the mob and hit it with a stealth melee attack or a master orc/goblin/etc strike than to back away</div><div> </div><div>And it's</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>52 Ranger</div><div> </div><div>Not that I'm [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but I do join the world channel and I see you guys chatting, so now if I ask a question you can either say it's that idiot Tobi or not.  Don't really like to hide behind anonymity one way or the other.  Racmoor is just the station name. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Racmoor on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:39 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

It's possible to longshank/emberstrike a heroic when it's cheap shotted, but you have to be fast and responsive.  Any lag, and you will have troubles.  The emberstrike line works well because it can go off from the front (basically as the mob is turning).Anyways I didn't call u tobi because im tobias so it's weird <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Racmo]

<div>Nope, not heroic.  I don't even try those much anymore....except to remind myself I can't do then.  Although with Thorny trap at 52, I might give it another try.</div><div> </div><div>But previously I've always been able to use the crippling blade/dire blade line on all mobs not heroic after cheap shotting.  I don't seem to be able to do that anymore.  I've chalked it up to what I perceived as changes to cheap shot.  But if you guys are saying it hasn't changed, then it must be my twitch reflexes.  Has old age finally set in?</div><div> </div><div>Could there be a difference in old world mobs vs DoF mobs?  That seems to be about the time I started having problems.  Oh well, derailing the thread.  I'll have to play with it I guess.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>52 Ranger.</div>

[Zodi]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>oh yea i was in top 5... but not with assassins or wizards or warlocks..... i was being beaten by Tanks and Rogues...... there is no need for debate,  it simply should not be that way.<hr></blockquote><p>I understand your frustation here</p><p>TIER 1 DPS</p><p>Assassins (VERY SLIGHTLY ahead due to majority of CA's are for meele more risk, but no more than 5% MAX))</p><p>Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks</p><p>All of them way above any other class.</p><p>This is jsut my opinion</p>

[Zodi]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KannaWhoopass wrote:<div>Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is</div><div> </div><div>Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid</div><div><font color="#ffff00">This is the kind of comment that incites flaming. Being fixed should be that you are in the TIER 1 of the DPS sometimes beat by your wizards, warlocks, or assassins. </font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div>it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS</div><div><font color="#ffff00">Amen</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div>it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.</div><div>It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.</div><div>It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS</div><div> </div><div>It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )</div><div> </div><div>to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .</div><div> </div><div>a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong</div><div>other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><blockquote><hr>KannaWhoopass wrote:<div>Let me tell ya what i think being fixed is</div><div> </div><div>Being fixed is where it is possible for me to be #1 DPS in a raid</div><div>it is beating monks and zerkers in DPS</div><div>it means i have an equal chance to out dps a wizzard when i use my sniper shot.</div><div>It means when looking for DPS a group considers me a viable option.</div><div>It means that when all my spells are master i can beat 550 DPS</div><div> </div><div>It means that while im typing this i shouldn't be in a fight using SOA knowing i wont pull off our tank (and i am )</div><div> </div><div>to me being broken is beinbg 10 levels higher and doing 550 less dps than i was at  60 .</div><div> </div><div>a 15-20% dps reduction would have been fine .. a 50% reduction was wrong</div><div>other classes tell me in game tough break man ! (sad)</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div>Nope, not heroic.  I don't even try those much anymore....except to remind myself I can't do then.  Although with Thorny trap at 52, I might give it another try.</div><div> </div><div>But previously I've always been able to use the crippling blade/dire blade line on all mobs not heroic after cheap shotting.  I don't seem to be able to do that anymore.  I've chalked it up to what I perceived as changes to cheap shot.  But if you guys are saying it hasn't changed, then it must be my twitch reflexes.  Has old age finally set in?</div><div> </div><div>Could there be a difference in old world mobs vs DoF mobs?  That seems to be about the time I started having problems.  Oh well, derailing the thread.  I'll have to play with it I guess.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>52 Ranger.</div><hr></blockquote>There is something to note here. It is not 'Heroic' per say. Cheap Shot will 6sec stun anything with no arrows or down arrows. Cheap Shot will 2sec stun with a 100% chance to break when the mob takes DMG on any mob with one up arrow or more.

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>oh yea i was in top 5... but not with assassins or wizards or warlocks..... i was being beaten by Tanks and Rogues...... there is no need for debate,  it simply should not be that way.<hr></blockquote><p>I understand your frustation here</p><p>TIER 1 DPS</p><p>Assassins (VERY SLIGHTLY ahead due to majority of CA's are for meele more risk, but no more than 5% MAX))</p><p>Rangers, Wizards, Warlocks</p><p><font color="#ff0000">All of them way above any other class.</font></p><p>This is jsut my opinion</p><hr></blockquote>I would classify this as not true. I've seen Conjy/Necros (when you include their pet DPS as it should be included) beat out me, assassins, wizards, and warlocks.

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>I'm in the wait and see mode on these changes.  Like a few others already pointed out we aren't that bad off in groups and raids.  You just need to work for it now which I find fun.  My problems and grips are all related to how bad they botched up solo play.  I'm really hoping some of these changes will help there.</p><p>I'm also very happy to see they are finally going to fix are reclaimed arrows in LU21 also.  That with the other changes should add a nice pop back into our bows.  Now if they would only fix our Thorny Trap <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Was out solo'ing last night while LFG and took some nice pics of me setting the trap in the middle of four mobs and them just ignoring it.  Half or more of the mobs have body parts in or touching the damm thing.  If I had that FRAPS program I could have made a nice film showing the roamer walking back and forth across it <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>For grouping and raiding I've picked up my new favorite friends are classes that have DPS and Haste buffs.  Those DPS buffs do very nice things with your auto attack arrows.  And once we get non grey ammo it should be even better.</p><p> </p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div>no not jousting, was on an ae'ing mob in Trial of the Awakened.  Using Adeste poisons till i run out, and i was level 69 as were they.  Firing off all my ranged CA's even w/out using any melee should keep me beyond atleast the fighters right?    I can post some of the parse info if its really neccessary but point was just that i was lower than the bruiser, monk, swash on every parse thus far  (posted this during downtime)</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>parsers dont take into account situations of a fight. if you were unwilling to use melee due to AOEs from the mob then yes your DPS will be a lot lower.</p><p>bongo</p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>nor was i ever before on raids, we're rangers. part of our fluff is we can stay out of ae range.  on raids 99% of the time ive NEVER ran in to use melee ca's... and pre LU20 it was rare i wasnt in the top 3 regardless.   Broken, overnerfed.... soe just wont admit it.   Might as well start from scratch, i mean theyre even trying to compensate by changing entire spell lines that have been around since release.  Good god.<hr></blockquote><p>if you dont use melee then you are missing out on huge damage. i have a combo of 2 attacks that take 1/2 a second to cast each. an attack that stealths and a high damage that can only be used in stealth. thay hit for the same damage as triple shot. might wanna start using them</p><p>bongo</p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<div></div><p>Zodian</p><p>seriously you have no idea</p><p>i have macros set up while i  play to chain my attacks .</p><p>I have worked out the optimal attack patterns using recast times and when stealth will be available to use the required stealth shots.</p><p>I am telling you ...yes telling you .. there is NO WAY that incorperating hand attacks in will do jack squat.</p><p>there is NO WAY for me to EVER be in the top 3 in our raids NO WAY!</p><p>In the best of my fights when criticals go off on big hits i make it in the top 7 .</p><p>I am always behind monks , assasins mages , mage pets , brigands , swashies . sometimes behind zerkers(which boggles my mind) but hey i beat zerkers and tanks 70% of the time.</p><p>I raid every day. Im in fights which last 3 min in duration . long enough to refresh all 90% of the attacks. Long enough to establish an average DPS.</p><p>And you can't debate with me at all that we are not T3 dps cause that is where we are.</p><p>In a game evolving to where all classes can buy invis , evac is now going to be an option for other classes (not seen but heard of the quest)</p><p>where our utility was nerfed in equal proportion to our DPS via crappy poison proc rate. You want to tell me you see a future with potential.</p><p> Our smallest attacks are getting dps boost of 15%-20% this is going to compensate for being 35% behind T1 DPS raid parses?</p><p>Do yo think there is some button on the keyboard im missing ? perhaps a "I can play a ranger button" im not using that will give me 30% more DPS? </p><p>Every raid every day every fight i give 100% to DPS .. i tried every combination .. i have no doubt i am using my class to its ultimate potential when it comes to DPS via poison, positioning and attack pattern, and Im TELLING you we need fixing. cause there is no reason but pitty or loyalty to take a ranger in your raid NO reson what so ever unless all T1 and T2 dps classes are unavailable ...in which case the raid would be called off anyway.</p><p>If you think that a 33% increase to auto attack . and marginal increases to our weakest attacks is going to make any difference think again.</p><p>The changes are being made to satisfy pre 67 level rangers who solo, because the solo ability of rangers plain sucks - and it was so obvious they screwed up.</p><p>To a level 70 ranger with 28AA points who raids ..these changes are nothing but joke .. almost insulting . SOE thinks they are addressing Ranger issues they are throwing you a bone nothing more.</p><p>Have you noticed the lack of activity on the boards?</p><p>Have you noticed the hardcore rah rah we are the great rangers who play for love are not here?</p><p>the ones who said ohhh thru constructive comments .. im sure developers will listen to us ..dont post  anymore ... (they are on alts .. dont play ...quit ....or are waiting to see if its safe to come back)</p><p>I find myself fast loosing the desire to play ... Raids which at one time were great fun are now just confirmations that my class sucks and i dont contribute at all to my guild. </p><p>I dont enjoy feeling useless . I dont like my guildmates looking at parses and saying "Yikes man they turfed you guys eh" ..then wondering why im LFG all [Removed for Content] night!!</p><p>it disgusts me that i'm clinging to hope that a live update will somehow fix me .</p><p>it is only because i derived so much pleasure from this game over the past year that i am still here. And there is one update comming to keep myself and im sure alot of others in this game. 33% auto attack aint gonna do it, and out of principal i would never consider starting an alt and paying another 14 months of fees, to once again join my guild in raids.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p>

[USAFJeeper]

<div>Low post count whiner here I guess some of you would say.  I created a ranger cause Ilike being a ranged/bow specialist.  If I wanted to melee I would have made an assassin.  The problem is that I cannot keep up with tanks now and yes I joust.  I have a lot of fabled gear and masters/Adept 3s.  I am in a raiding guild.  I use Adestes and any other poison I think might give me an advantage.  I have a woodworker alt that makes me special arrows for big mobs just in case it will help.</div><div> </div><div>When I look at parses and I am outdamaged by Berserkers, Rogues, Conjurers, Wizards, Bruisers etc and I am going balls out to do damage, well it gets kinda depressing.  SInce I am in a guild with well equipped well played toons I had to work hard before to keep up and I liked it, I was competitve and we had fun comparing our DPS and laughing about it.</div><div> </div><div>Level 64 ranger here  Played since day 1.  Never soloed heroic zones.  I hate soloing.  I am not gonna do something silly like threaten to quit etc.  I just want some of you to stop peeing down my neck and telling me its just raining.  When someone vents, just let em do it and take your Little Mary Sunshine act somewhere else.</div>

[klepp]

<div>learning to play my class has nothign to do with it... i mean for anyone who thinks this game is brain surgery.... its button mashing inthe most efficient/quickest manor....</div><div> </div><div>and for the record, ive played since the day of release and iw as the first ranger on my server, the first to 50, the first to 60, but the 4th to 70 =/</div><div> </div><div>I agree w/ some of what has been posted, and what drove me to post this was the parse results from last nights raid, consistantly being below Not wizards, not assassins, but rogues and frigging fighters... its not right, no way around it.</div>

[klepp]

<div></div>oh and suck me fennrir, it is a rangers fluff you noob,  and you m ust have been to busy broadcasting your uberness to realize i posted even when using ALL my skills im below rogues.  I guess thats ok though...

[Draughi]

<div></div><div>Ok, just to help some of you all out.  Here's what I do.  Not necessarily in this order...but yes..I use everything I got. </div><div> </div><div>Griz bow, Blackscale SS, Turadamins fang, Planar amulet with 3x150dd procs, Hemotoxin, Bite of Shissar, Adamanite arrows.   Self buffed str 387 agl 410 int 17 Tactics potion which increases my crit rate by 4% each skill...I also have bow crits with 4aa's into it.  Puts my crit rate about 12%..you should see this about everytime you autoattack. </div><div> </div><div>Confusion arrow</div><div>Cover Fire</div><div>Devitalizing arrow</div><div>Vines.............................Note...these are all my debuffs.</div><div> </div><div>Surveil</div><div>Veiled Fire</div><div>Triple Volley</div><div>Precise shot</div><div>Culling the weak....providing mobs back to me.</div><div> </div><div>Focus aim and auto attack.....I hit for 1100-1800 per autoattack</div><div> </div><div>Run in on mob.</div><div> </div><div>Cover fire again</div><div>Lunging Joust</div><div>Other piercing dot..(cant' remember name)</div><div>Lunging Blade</div><div>Rangers blade</div><div>Surveil</div><div>Emberstrike</div><div>DD shot</div><div>Tear</div><div> </div><div>JUMP back.</div><div>Honed reflexes,</div><div>Killing instinct and autoattack</div><div>Stream of arrows</div><div>Snaring shot when timer is up</div><div> </div><div>Rinse and repeat.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Now it requires a lot of clicking and moving jumping and moving backwards....this will put you at optimum range in a second for ranged skills and still keep clicking your 2 dots.</div><div> </div><div>I have no problems keeping up with anyone cept the conjurors/necros....while I still am not "On Par" with t1 DPS, I can beat the tanks by a longshot, I sit in the top 5, usually #5 or so.  I'll take the risk on running in on AE's..when all my timers are greyed out and melee autoattack for some procs from weapons and my earring. </div><div> </div><div>I've had a 8k crit on the veiled fire line, haven't seen one on sniper shot...then again, I don't use it all to much.  The crits make a HUGE difference.  </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Draughith on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:03 PM</span></p>

[klepp]

<div></div>sheesh, easy to get heated over both ends of the stick.  Anyhow glad to see some people see my point/see it my way.   No need to be the ultra ranger on the high pedastal cause you still do good dps when you hit a macro key before it refreshes and spent every waking second on top of your attacks to keep up w/ the rogues n monks.  We need fixing, plain and simple.. post LU we'll see how it pans out. 

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>oh and suck me fennrir, it is a rangers fluff you noob,  and you m ust have been to busy broadcasting your uberness to realize i posted even when using ALL my skills im below rogues.  I guess thats ok though...<hr></blockquote>we're below rogues before the update we get fixes comes out? COLOR ME SURPRISED <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>oh and suck me fennrir, it is a rangers fluff you noob,  and you m ust have been to busy broadcasting your uberness to realize i posted even when using ALL my skills im below rogues.  I guess thats ok though...<hr></blockquote><p>I'm really not sure why you want Fennrir to suck you, but if you're wanting to pick men up in this forum, could you take it to private tells? If you cottage on the side or whatever it's not my business, I'd just rather you did it in private. It reasuring to see you picking up Fennir as at least there's less chance of you reproducing offspring that way.</p><p>As for those you're calling noobs, you need to read around the forums a little. <strong>They're</strong> the ones that actually caught the devs attention and entered a dialogue with them to get any measure of fix in lu21, not you. You simply have no idea how ignorant you come off in light of recent threads. You're causing the bulk of your peers to blush.</p><p>I'll repeat though. If it is your intent to not melee at all, you need to save yourself time and roll another class. Your dps is being balanced around using all your CAs, not just some of them. I'd suggest a Monk.</p>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div>learning to play my class has nothign to do with it... i mean for anyone who thinks this game is brain surgery.... its button mashing inthe most efficient/quickest manor....</div><div> </div><div>and for the record, ive played since the day of release and iw as the first ranger on my server, the first to 50, the first to 60, but the 4th to 70 =/</div><div> </div><div>I agree w/ some of what has been posted, and what drove me to post this was the parse results from last nights raid, consistantly being below Not wizards, not assassins, but rogues and frigging fighters... its not right, no way around it.</div><hr></blockquote><p>My parses from last night in Courts in Dof do not show this....</p><p><strong>Keeper of the City Keys</strong> : 683.2 dps, top dps of raid, number 2 another ranger at 465, best wiz at 315 ( and I will agree this is nowhere where a wiz should, they are way to scared to get aggro and get yelled at my the MT).</p><p><strong>Prismatic Captain</strong> : 598.08 dps, number 2 dps ( top conjuror with 180+ pet 560 = 740). Seeing this I have to conclude conjuror was sleeping through previous fight <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.</p><p><strong>Brius Lakado</strong> : 699 dps, number 2 dps ( conj 162 + pet 67<img src="/smilies/b2eb59423fbf5fa39342041237025880.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Kinda skewed I was late joining the fight as i was scouting for other brother so i could do some burst damage here....</p><p><strong>Wolan Lakado</strong> : 590 dps, top dps ( conj 133 + pet 392 takes second place, MT is third with 460, kinda weird...)</p><p><strong>Pattern Juggler</strong> : 613 dps, top dps ( conj second with 605)</p><p><strong>Great Gardener</strong> : 457 dps, second dps ( conj top at 550), either resistant to pierce or someone forgot to debuff...</p><p><strong>Maestra of Disonance</strong> : 662 dps, top dps( conj at 400).</p><p> </p><p>Fire Witch and Black Queen parse not relevant as I was too far away from the targets and my parse is lacking most of the melee damage...But with the jousting I am pretty convinced no melee was near me...</p><p> </p><p>Some significant remarks : I was only using bow and bow skills and not coming in melee range. I have maxed crit AA, I use t6 arrows ( t7 once reclaim is fixed...).</p><p>There was no assassin in raid..</p><p><strong>Pierce ( auto attack with bow) actually represents 20% of my damage and I was nowhere expecting that........</strong></p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:06 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:08 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

klepps fighters must really rock the hizzouse<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Here is the Keeper parse( sorry I don't know how to make this readable..)</p><p> </p><p>Name Start Time Duration Damage Healed Ext DPS Hits Swings Dmg Taken</p><p>The Keeper of the City Keys 7:10:36 PM 02:36 245948 0 1576.59 82 118 573630</p><p>YOU 7:10:49 PM 02:23 106583 0 683.22 174 175 0</p><p>Lileodhe 7:10:53 PM 02:19 72677 0 465.88 104 105 0  ( ranger)</p><p>Varum 7:11:00 PM 02:11 53747 0 344.53 134 138 5270  ( errr new guildied I dunno)</p><p>Anskiere 7:10:52 PM 02:15 49214 0 315.47 52 54 0  ( Wiz)</p><p>Bugbig 7:10:36 PM 02:36 48111 0 308.40 260 272 31005 (MT guardian)</p><p>Jaipehg 7:11:01 PM 02:09 40428 0 259.15 41 41 0  (Wiz)</p><p>Howo 7:10:56 PM 02:16 25382 787 162.71 59 60 11206 (SK)</p><p>Zefira 7:10:54 PM 02:15 21706 0 139.14 69 71 11897 ( Bers)</p><p>Ajiila 7:11:05 PM 02:06 18448 0 118.26 44 54 0</p><p>Khord 7:10:53 PM 02:16 16946 0 108.63 47 50 8081 Siffo 7:11:07 PM 02:04 15322 0 98.22 75 81 0 Aegis 7:11:04 PM 02:03 14819 0 94.99 93 97 62609 Kikaro 7:11:30 PM 01:40 14403 0 92.33 26 27 0 Ganluan 7:11:00 PM 02:12 12029 0 77.11 25 26 0 Kanowyn 7:10:40 PM 02:32 10970 8481 70.32 21 23 0 Vielyth 7:11:04 PM 02:07 9600 0 61.54 45 45 0 Iserod 7:10:54 PM 02:14 7580 226 48.59 36 46 18943 Elliasar 7:10:54 PM 01:27 4925 8302 31.57 21 21 7477 Qwerxypltl 7:10:55 PM 01:46 4780 0 30.64 10 13 16682 Iryssinia 7:10:36 PM 02:36 4703 14632 30.15 18 18 0 Moose 7:10:56 PM 00:34 4687 0 30.04 11 12 6244 Ghishk 7:11:40 PM 01:32 3759 2488 24.10 33 33 0 Elias 7:11:03 PM 02:09 3333 70 21.37 12 16 10386 Tigereyes 7:10:53 PM 00:49 3003 0 19.25 7 12 11942 Death 7:11:05 PM 02:03 2517 0 16.13 8 9 9749 Shirtrippah 7:10:50 PM 00:30 1587 0 10.17 12 12 5417 Nightmare 7:10:48 PM 02:20 1255 0 8.04 6 19 13794 Akani 7:10:57 PM 00:10 847 0 5.43 5 5 4623 Emcee 7:10:37 PM 00:01 269 0 1.72 1 2 5108 Fiericity 7:10:41 PM 02:30 0 13622 0.00 0 0 0 Jacqelyn 7:11:04 PM 02:07 0 18236 0.00 0 0 0 Temus 7:10:42 PM 02:03 0 6807 0.00 0 1 0 Poof 11:59:59 PM 00:00 0 0 0.00 0 0 5515</p><p>And here the Prismatic captain :</p><p>Name Start Time Duration Damage Healed Ext DPS Hits Swings Dmg Taken</p><p>YOU 7:20:06 PM 01:17 54425 0 598.08 82 82 0</p><p>Aegis 7:20:12 PM 01:10 50993 0 560.36 185 193 1846 ( Conjuror pet, Conjuror is Ganluan)</p><p>Lileodhe 7:20:05 PM 01:16 41205 0 452.80 58 59 0</p><p>Elias 7:20:13 PM 01:09 34392 353 377.93 79 79 1278  ( Monk)</p><p>Bugbig 7:19:52 PM 01:31 34120 0 374.95 166 174 4287</p><p>Ajiila 7:20:02 PM 01:20 32869 0 361.20 44 46 0</p><p>Anskiere 7:20:06 PM 01:16 32067 0 352.38 30 30 0</p><p>Varum 7:20:03 PM 01:20 31742 0 348.81 77 79 2084</p><p>Khord 7:20:08 PM 01:14 25624 0 281.58 88 101 0</p><p>Zefira 7:20:13 PM 01:09 23672 0 260.13 62 62 0</p><p>Howo 7:20:13 PM 01:08 19487 474 214.14 66 67 1503</p><p>Kikaro 7:20:08 PM 01:10 19049 0 209.33 51 51 0</p><p>The Prismatic Captain 7:19:53 PM 01:28 18060 0 198.46 23 44 535077</p><p>Jaipehg 7:20:09 PM 01:12 17385 0 191.04 16 16 0 Elliasar 7:20:19 PM 01:03 16594 0 182.35 76 78 0 Ganluan 7:20:26 PM 00:55 16497 0 181.29 40 40 0 Kanowyn 7:19:56 PM 01:22 11720 2366 128.79 10 10 0 Iserod 7:20:18 PM 01:03 10950 0 120.33 38 55 0 Vielyth 7:20:12 PM 01:08 10847 0 119.20 35 35 0 Iryssinia 7:20:00 PM 01:22 9401 2800 103.31 28 28 0 Siffo 7:20:15 PM 01:02 7960 0 87.47 30 32 0 Ghishk 7:20:28 PM 00:55 7376 0 81.05 40 40 0 Moose 7:20:17 PM 01:01 6938 0 76.24 15 15 0 Emcee 7:20:01 PM 00:40 5848 0 64.26 26 26 0 Qwerxypltl 7:20:20 PM 00:42 4705 0 51.70 15 18 0 Jacqelyn 7:20:37 PM 00:46 2426 2063 26.66 7 7 0 Fiericity 7:20:00 PM 01:14 1723 1152 18.93 3 3 0 Nightmare 7:20:14 PM 01:07 1444 0 15.87 6 21 0 Akani 7:20:08 PM 00:27 1419 0 15.59 9 12 3386 Death 7:20:22 PM 00:13 1149 0 12.63 4 6 3676 Tigereyes 7:20:17 PM 00:40 830 0 9.12 2 5 0</p><p></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:18 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:19 PM</span></p>

[USAFJeeper]

<div></div>Ail, I am sorry, but your proud of that DPS?  Trying not to be a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but those are very low numbers all around.

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:klepps fighters must really rock the hizzouse<div></div><hr></blockquote>Well, zerkers do own!  I still remember when the entire world was crying about the zerker nerfs during LU13 AND post-LU13 (yes, they got nerfed a couple more times after that).  And still zerkers are dps tanking machines!Anyway, I agree with what Tobias and others have said.  Klepp, you are a silly.</span><div></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div>I ain't sayign I'm proud of it and I know our wizzies are nowhere where they should be, but I am where I expect to be.( we are not a raiding guild and our raids are casual)</div><div> </div><div>If you expect to be around 1k dps in raid, you are mistaken and will not get what you expect from SoE in the near future....</div><div> </div><div>If the patch gives up 20% more damage ( and seeing where my pierce is 33% more dmg there will help)  that will put me around 720 dps which is what I would expect from using only bow and staying out of AEs range....( I take no risks, I pay for it a little)</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:22 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:23 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div></div>Ail, I am sorry, but your proud of that DPS?  Trying not to be a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but those are very low numbers all around.<hr></blockquote>low looking dps numbers on live before our DPS fixes hit?GOOD THING I DIDNT WASH THE SURPRISE PAINT OFF</span></div>

[A]

<div></div><p>Seriously maybe we should just poll, what kinda of dps are you expecting to put ?</p><p>600 ? 800 ? 1k ? 1200 ?</p><p>Your expectations may have something to do with wether you will be happy or not....</p><p>Personally if I hit 800 I will be very happy ( the numbers I showed were against blue mobs and I know I would do lower against yellow epics but on the other hand I was using all T6 adept 3 and master 1, none of my t7 spells are adept 3 or masters yet and as a result they are not as good as the T6 ones, the same way I was not using t7 arrows..)</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>With Focus Fire I've found timing other CA's during it helps also.  If you watch for the initial hit you can get off your 1 to 1.5 sec cast CA's during your auto bow cool down.  I always get off three auto attacks off and two CA's in between them.</p><p>Ail there's no need to waste money on Indium arrows.  They do the same damage as the reclaimed Adamantine arrows.  They are both designated as L50 ammo currently.  Unless you are talking about player made ammo.</p><p>I've only gotten one crit on Sniper so far and it was for around 9.6K.  Which is pretty nice considering there was no brigand debuffing the mob.  Brigand debuffed crits are going to be very nice.</p><p> </p>

[Fennir]

I got a 3k crit with devitalizing on a dispatched mob in palace the other day. =)<div></div>

[TerriBlades]

<div></div><p>With 4 AA points spent on the crit line, I see alot of big numbers like that. This weekend I was able to pull off a nice 10K crit hit with the snipers line. Twas a very nice sight that was. And once I get my 8 put into speeding up my casting timers, Im going back to max that crit line. Gawd my tanks are gonna hate me.</p><p> </p><p>Nesse</p><p>68 Ranger / Dirty Dozen / Oasis</p>

[Fennir]

hehe that was my plan... started saving points for Poise...but i couldn't do it... they made their way into maxing crit as soon as I had 2 saved, lolpoise will get it's day...... in 10 points<div></div>

[USAFJeeper]

<div>OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. </div><div> </div><div>In case you missed an earlier post I signed up to be a bow based class not an assassin.  If I want to melee, I would have made an assassin.  I did not sit down and cry when the nerf hit and beat my chest in agony, I did my best with what I had as most of us here did.  But to be so naive as to not get the idea the changes are not really gonna make us anything more than an outdoor assassin with weaker skills.  At least our auto attack will be 33% more.  Take off the rose colored glasses.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div>OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. </div><div> </div><div>In case you missed an earlier post I signed up to be a bow based class not an assassin.  If I want to melee, I would have made an assassin.  I did not sit down and cry when the nerf hit and beat my chest in agony, I did my best with what I had as most of us here did.  But to be so naive as to not get the idea the changes are not really gonna make us anything more than an outdoor assassin with weaker skills.  At least our auto attack will be 33% more.  Take off the rose colored glasses.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>You may want to review the post which contained the parses.  Healers aren't outdamaging Rangers, in fact, Rangers seem to be doing okay still despite not being fixed yet.  But hey, if you want to be fixated on some number that is higher than that parse regardless how other classes parsed in the same raid, be my guest!</span><div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div>OK little Mary Sunshine, I mean Fennir. Very cute.   You can go ahead and suck at the teat of SOE as much as you want but the fact is I went from averaging 700-900 DPS to averaging 300-450 and key mashing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off.  DO I need to be be a 1200?   NO.  But I need to at least not be embarassed by healer classes sometimes. </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p> </p><p>Hey, here's an idea... rather than patronise those Rangers that are managing to put out more dps than you, how about you try and learn why they're managing to be better Rangers than yourself?</p><p>The parse Ail provided was not rose coloured. Whether by your measure the numbers were low or not does not matter. What matters is that her parse relative to her peers. Why not ask her why she is managing to do what you are failing to do?</p><p>This whole issue absolutely must be causing the Assassins deja vú as their forum went through about a month of intense argument over the <strong>exact</strong> same issue. Half screaming that Assassins sucked and the other half screaming they were doing fine and were only being beaten by Rangers (then) on raids.... It took a month of parse after parse with the "underdogs" still screaming <strong><em>we suck!</em></strong> regardless of what was presented to them... if took about a month for the Assassin community to finally realise a proportion of Assassins being played outright suck for a combination of reasons, but that didn't mean the class sucked.</p><p>You don't really notice the Rogues that outright suck because if they don't come in the top bracket it doesn't catch your attention. If a Monk beats a Rogue nobody screams <strong><em>OMG! a Monk beat a Brigand! A Tank beat a Rogue!</em></strong> It doesn't even get noticed. Those Rogues that suck at producing damage do so without anybody pausing to think that their class is broken... Some Rogues do well on a parse, others do really badly.</p><p>Go to the Assassin forum and flip back a few pages and you'll find the threads in question. They're all multipage threads, and with obvious titles like "why we suck".</p><p>Wait until the proposed fix is in, and then compare a <em>broad range</em> of Ranger parse with Assassins. Don't take the best of the Assassins and the worst of Rangers, take the best of Assassins and the best of the Rangers and figure that those at the bottom simply suck.</p>

[USAFJeeper]

<div>While I dont have the hubris to suggest that I am the best ranger out there, I know my class.  I compare apples to apples.  I compare myself angainst other well geared and competent toons.  I know that I am lacking in my peer group whereas before I was not, albeit a lil overpowered with the proc frequency as has been noted on these boards ad nauseum.</div><div> </div><div>I parse constantly and can tell you that even those of us who are fairly competent are indeed being outDPSed by some unusual classes.  Now if you can stop your condescension and read what I wrote you may see that I dont want to be an assassin doing assassin work.  they should be at my level but in close.  I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for your patronage.</div>

[Sokolov]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:Ail, I am sorry, but your proud of that DPS?  Trying not to be a real [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn], but those are very low numbers all around.<hr></blockquote>Proof he can't read parses.</span><span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div>While I dont have the hubris to suggest that I am the best ranger out there, I know my class.  I compare apples to apples.  I compare myself angainst other well geared and competent toons.  I know that I am lacking in my peer group whereas before I was not, albeit a lil overpowered with the proc frequency as has been noted on these boards ad nauseum.</div><div> </div><div>I parse constantly and can tell you that even those of us who are fairly competent are indeed being outDPSed by some unusual classes.  Now if you can stop your condescension and read what I wrote you may see that I dont want to be an assassin doing assassin work.  they should be at my level but in close.  I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for your patronage.</div><hr></blockquote></span>So the class should be whatever you think it should be?  Go make your own game.  And for the record, the word ranger doesn't have its origin in "ranged combat," it has to do with knowledge of the land.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sokolov on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:12 PM</span></p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sokolov wrote:<span><p>You may want to review the post which contained the parses.  Healers aren't outdamaging Rangers, in fact, Rangers seem to be doing okay <em><font color="#33cc00"><strong>(In groups and raids)</strong></font></em> still despite not being fixed yet.  But hey, if you want to be fixated on some number that is higher than that parse regardless how other classes parsed in the same raid, be my guest!</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Our solo play is still jacked up big time.  Crossing my fingures the changes in LU21 will help here.  But we'll have to wait and see how it goes.  I'd have prefered they gave us a 12 sec breakable root over the 4 sec unbreakable one.  But I'll take what I can get and see what I can do with it.</p><p> </p>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div> Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.</div><hr></blockquote><img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />What is miracle arrow?  They're doubling the damage on it.  That's not a bow shot?  Confounding arrow and snaring shot?  They're upping those too.Focus Fire giving 48% increased chance to crit isn't increasing ranged dps?Increasing bow autoattack all-around by 30% isn't increasing ranged dps?Do you even have a clue?</span></div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><p>Seriously maybe we should just poll, what kinda of dps are you expecting to put ?</p><p>600 ? 800 ? 1k ? 1200 ?</p><p>Your expectations may have something to do with wether you will be happy or not....</p><p>Personally if I hit 800 I will be very happy ( the numbers I showed were against blue mobs and I know I would do lower against yellow epics but on the other hand I was using all T6 adept 3 and master 1, none of my t7 spells are adept 3 or masters yet and as a result they are not as good as the T6 ones, the same way I was not using t7 arrows..)</p><p></p><hr></blockquote>800 would also make me very happy.  That may change if I ever get to level 70.  What would really make me happy is if SOE saw fit to change the bounty AA.  What if, instead of recieving a few silver, we could make a wizzy, on a random basis,  just drop dead.  Now that's what I call a bounty!  You could make a macro...   /shout Dead Wizzy Walking... /useability bounty.:smileytongue:

[USAFJeeper]

<div>Ok apparently we are not communicating here at all so I tell you what, you go ahead and enjoy the game, I wont bother you with my honest look at a class I like and have played since day 1.</div><div> </div><div>I got my clue in my box set, its sitting in my room now.  Enjoy your EQ2 day.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div> I am a ranger I do RANGed DPS.  Improving my CAs for melee is not the answer.</div><div> </div><div>Thanks for your patronage.</div><hr></blockquote><p>RANGed isn't actually where the term Ranger comes from mate.... <em>"The act of wandering or roaming over a large area. "</em></p><p>You even suck at patronising people =/</p>

[USAFJeeper]

<div>Hey Carnagh, get with your buddy Fen there and share the clue.  in MMOs ranged attacks mean from a distance.  Nice chatting with you guys but I have had about all the sunshine blown up my skirt I can handle in one day.</div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>USAFJeeper wrote:<div>Ok apparently we are not communicating here at all so I tell you what, you go ahead and enjoy the game, I wont bother you with my honest look at a class I like and have played since day 1.</div><div> </div><div>I got my clue in my box set, its sitting in my room now.  Enjoy your EQ2 day. </div><hr></blockquote>Your honest look at a class?You're pretending all they're doing to fix us is adjust a few melee CAs.  How is that honest?Well, why don't we be honest.  You're leaving the discussion because you can't make a coherent point and are afraid of those made by others.  Everyone who disagrees with your assessment is sucking the collective SOE teat, as far as you're concerned.Cya.</span></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><p>With Focus Fire I've found timing other CA's during it helps also.  If you watch for the initial hit you can get off your 1 to 1.5 sec cast CA's during your auto bow cool down.  I always get off three auto attacks off and two CA's in between them.</p><p>Ail there's no need to waste money on Indium arrows.  They do the same damage as the reclaimed Adamantine arrows.  They are both designated as L50 ammo currently.  Unless you are talking about player made ammo.</p><p>I've only gotten one crit on Sniper so far and it was for around 9.6K.  Which is pretty nice considering there was no brigand debuffing the mob.  Brigand debuffed crits are going to be very nice.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>Reclaimed adamantine were my t6 arrows, not indium <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>And as I pointed out my parse were doing RANGED ONLY damage, no melee or melee CA was involved...</p><p>And there was no brigand debuffing in that raid either..</p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:50 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:49 PM</span></p>

[Shadesl]

[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".

[Visay1]

 We have to wait for LU21 to see the effect on our damage.But there is one thing that makes me angry. SOE said the would up the damage rating of bows to be on par with 2H weapons of the same quality. But only the low level and low damage rating bows got an upgrade on test. Grizzfazzels bow is still at 80.8 damage rating while the 2H quest rewards are 91,2. The best fabled bow still has a damage rating of 98 while other 2H weapons have 103+. Even 1H weapons have ratings of 84+. The differences between bows and 2H weapons are not that big anymore but bows are still inferior.<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".<hr></blockquote><p>Not seeing this at all, sorry.</p><p>Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...</p><p>So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)</p>

[Fennir]

<img src="http://www.improvmasta.org/eq2/hofparse.jpg">Here's a parse of my own.  It's about 50 minutes of fighting in HoF.  I removed all broken encounters.  The only person who was AFK for any of the fights was <b>me</b>, for two of them.We only had 1 healer so we were mezzing, which hurt the warlock, but we didn't fight very many big groups anyways.<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><p>Your parse matchs what I find.</p><p>I parse around 400 usually but raiding increases dps a lot due to debuffs...</p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".<hr></blockquote><p>Not seeing this at all, sorry.</p><p>Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...</p><p>So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)</p><hr></blockquote>I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".<hr></blockquote><p>Not seeing this at all, sorry.</p><p>Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...</p><p>So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)</p><hr></blockquote>I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.<hr></blockquote><p>The only people advocating ranger suck now are rangers ( it's like some of us are trying to spread a message to the rest of the community that we are worthless when the data gathered does not demonstrate it, YES we took a big hit, but we are still up there ....)</p><p>I have been occasionally outdpsed in a group by another player. But in the majority of the groups I am the top dps and people DO notice a difference when I join the group.</p><p> </p>

[BSbon]

<blockquote><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shadeslay wrote:[Removed for Content], griefer cheerleaders.I think I've seen it all now.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because at some point you're going to have to deal with groups refusing to have you with the line "sorry, Rangers suck".<hr></blockquote><p>Not seeing this at all, sorry.</p><p>Max amount of time I have had LFG flag up was 5 minutes...</p><p>So if you can't get a group, it's prolly more a personally issues than a class issue ( personally I don't group people that complain about their class every 5 min on group chat...)</p><hr></blockquote>I'm not suggesting it is happening (most players aren't even aware of any Ranger issues currently), I'm saying have a "Rangers suck" campaign run for another month and then see what happens... I watched it happen in EQ1.<hr></blockquote><p>The only people advocating ranger suck now are rangers ( it's like some of us are trying to spread a message to the rest of the community that we are worthless when the data gathered does not demonstrate it, YES we took a big hit, but we are still up there ....)</p><p>I have been occasionally outdpsed in a group by another player. But in the majority of the groups I am the top dps and people DO notice a difference when I join the group.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>the only sucky rangers are the ones that dont know what their CAs do or refuse to use all of them</p><p>bongo</p></blockquote>

[KannaWhoopass]

<div></div><p>Im not going to argue yer stats</p><p>cause they are about right .</p><p>The only problem is i get similar stats in raid .</p><p>And monks wizards bruisers brigands assasins are doing 800 - 900 dps</p><p>im topping out at 600 ish that is not near high enough for a lvl 70 T1 class  </p><p> </p>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KannaWhoopass wrote:<div></div><p>Im not going to argue yer stats</p><p>cause they are about right .</p><p>The only problem is i get similar stats in raid .</p><p>And monks wizards bruisers brigands assasins are doing 800 - 900 dps</p><p>im topping out at 600 ish that is not near high enough for a lvl 70 T1 class  </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>Mind sending some of those my way to educate my guildies ?</p><p>Each time I try to educate our highest wizard and tell him he's not doing the damage he should I get a nasty black look...</p>

[klepp]

<div>funny thing is, i can show parses that show the opposite, Guild rangers including myself getting outdps'd by classes we very much should not be.   Whether it be by 3 dps or 100 these are classes we should be above and beyond.  Like many have already said, not only do we pay for our dps, but its just about all we offer.  On the other hand, maybe our fighters are just that uber... heh.</div>

[Fennir]

I can show parses that show our templar #1 DPS on a raid.  I just seem to have misplaced them..I'm not sure what you're looking for.  The devs acknowledged that we're broken and that fixes are incoming.  You're still complaining about being out-DPSd on Live without testing the incoming changes at all.Why do you think anyone is going to listen to you or care what you think?<div></div>

[Star]

<div></div>Hmmmmm I went to bed last night with ACT trying to merge almost 3 weeks of combats (good, bad, ugly) into one nice total of my DPS since LU20. This is the kinda stuff we should be looking at. Not 'this parse shows X class out DPSing me' and 'this parse shows me out DPSing all these classes'. Even in a raid situational things occurr. I would like the Devs to come out and say "a long term average for ranger DPS should be about X" but they never will because equipment and spell quality is a factor. I'm hoping for a number in the high 400s when I get home. I *think* that if we were right that number should be in the high 500s (remember this is not just the good, but also the bad and the down right ugly encounters). I'll post what I find if people want me to.

[Writer Cal]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div>Hmmmmm I went to bed last night with ACT trying to merge almost 3 weeks of combats (good, bad, ugly) into one nice total of my DPS since LU20. This is the kinda stuff we should be looking at. Not 'this parse shows X class out DPSing me' and 'this parse shows me out DPSing all these classes'. Even in a raid situational things occurr. I would like the Devs to come out and say "a long term average for ranger DPS should be about X" but they never will because equipment and spell quality is a factor. I'm hoping for a number in the high 400s when I get home. I *think* that if we were right that number should be in the high 500s (remember this is not just the good, but also the bad and the down right ugly encounters). I'll post what I find if people want me to.<hr></blockquote>I'd be interested in seeing what you find.  I've been working on gathering enough data to do something similar with mine.  I mainly wanted to get a good accounting of where my ranger stands now in both group and solo situations so I have a comparison when LU21 goes live.  Because, um, sorry, but these big numbers people mention from T6 and T7 don't tell those of us in the lower tiers anything. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[klepp]

<div></div>fennir or fenrir or whatever... read the topic of my post.. it doesnt say OMG we are broken, it says im not confident the changes are going to put us back on track 100%.  However that does remain to be seen.  And i think people will care just as much about my opinion as they do yours or anyone elses.  Or are you the godranger who's will is that of all the lesser rangers?

[Fennir]

wow that sounds kinda cool actually<div></div>