Not Very Positive

[Dragonlor]

<div>I have always liked checking through all the class boards as part of my MMO play experience - whether I played the class or not.  It is just something I like to do.  Since I have done this through several MMOs, I am no stranger to the fact that most people who post are cynical and/or negative in many ways.  Sometimes, however, you find the exception to this and that is cool.  I really think the EQ2 Ranger boards used to be that way.  I understand that LU20 hurt the ranger class significantly and I understand the pain of game changes that hurt (or "destroy" your character and how you envision him/her).  However, changes have been and are being made to help build the ranger back up a bit.  With that said and the prompt customer service from SOE, I would have thought that the ranger discontent would lessen and these boards would return to a fairly enjoyable place (other classes have waited much longer for changes).  They have not and feel free to flame away (as I am sure will happen), but the ranger boards now seem to be owned by the vocal minority that wants everything in the world for their class.  I have played many classes in this game (including ranger) and others and I get tired of everyone feeling they have to have the best of everything.  I play my classes for what they are...if one is weakend by changes and that class is not fun for a bit, I play another.  I guess my bottom line is that the ranger community I once saw here is gone.  It has been replaced by a minority once again that demands everything and seems to be happy with nothing.  Go ahead and fry me now for my honest opinion :smileywink:.</div><div> </div><div>I wish all the true rangers the best of luck on their journey through Norrath.</div>

[Vacan]

<div></div><div></div><div>My view is that the Rangers should have NEVER ended up into this state after LU20!!! AND the supposed fixes that SoE has put on test have not hit live yet so how can you say prompt response!!!!!!</div><div> </div><div>I read these boards before LU20 and it was voiced by MANY players that exactly what happened to the Rangers would happen if they put in their changes as proposed on the test server at that time. This is why I am mad and will remain mad until I see ON LIVE fixes that make us soloable again equal to other classes. I refuse to even play my ranger in his current state!</div><div> </div><div>This should NOT have happened in the first place. These are all the things that they changed and it is obvious to me that they had no idea what the sum of all these changes was going to give:</div><div> </div><div>They changed us to have less options and CA's in melee with LU13</div><div> </div><div>They shorted the time it takes for mobs to get to us when we start shooting at them so now we get less shots before they are in melee range</div><div> </div><div>They changed the way mobs fight and set them up to use skills like the players ( this is where the parrying and blocking and such comes from ).</div><div> </div><div>Then they changed ranged attacks by setting them up to be parried, blocked, etc  on top of missing. This was done for PVP in my mind. (by the way hidden shoot should seldom get parried or block especially from the back)</div><div> </div><div>They then reduced our damage by reducing our procs to one hand.</div><div> </div><div>Then they changed procs to only the first arrow on multi arrow attacks. ( our melee effectiveness got reduced because of the proc issue) This also made us less likely to be able to stun or debuff a mob. Why? because if it doesn't proc no debuff! Spells don't have this issue. Yes they can get resisted but they land way more often.</div><div> </div><div>They also changed our attacks that could be done while moving.</div><div> </div><div>They increased the time it takes to make the bow shots.</div><div> </div><div>They reduced our trap to almost worthless ( note at low levels we should have something like trap to keep the mobs off us). I've never found that my snares helped me get another shot off.</div><div> </div><div>They nerfed stream to worthless. I don't know why because with all the procs gone it would be about right now.</div><div> </div><div>I know I've missed some but the sum totals makes us reduced to crap for damage and tough to solo.</div><div> </div><div>I say again our current state never should have happened. I'm not saying that we shouldn't have been changed but it's like they had ten different people all making changes to our class and not testing ALL of the changes together to see what we would end up with when they were done. I am also one of thise rangers that say I should not have to spend cash to be equal with other DPS classes unless they also have to spend the same kind of cash.</div><p>Message Edited by Vacan on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:41 AM</span></p>

[LoreLady]

I look at the entire LU20 thing as a positive experiance and a challenge.. Think for a second, your limited inone way so you bend your ways and adapt. Going in and out of melee puts is close to assassins now with this said being said if we keep this kind of thing up, we will do much more damage than assassins because we are learning how to utilize our skills, force tanks into turning the mob 100% of the time, and bring a compleatly new type of playstyle.The devs have said they are changing ranger CA's that are underpowered, and bringing ranged CA's in line with assassin CA's. I hope to enjoy my experiances out doing everyone else because the pressure has taught me on how to play better, while our cousins are still int he learning process. (that being said assassins rock!)

[Fennir]

The vocal minority isn't going to get what they wants just because they're loud.They just think they will because they're under the impression that we're being fixed in LU#21 because of whining.Trust me, there are plenty of intelligent rangers on this board who don't want to be overpowered and aren't asking for it.<div></div>

[LoreLady]

Oh believe me I know, posts from people like bentgate, Jay42, and yourself always keep a smile on my face simply because I know there is a light in all the dark.

[Sulas]

To the OP, you should also understand that the changes that were made in LU# 20 (and the subsequent clamor) really took the wind out of the sails of many of the more vocally optimistic Rangers here.   I tapped out for a long time but am starting to come back now.This whole fiasco has left me very disappointed in the Dev team, but I still enjoy the game.  I'm jst getting tired of having to relearn how to fight every 6 months.<div></div>

[Ranja]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>LoreLady wrote:Oh believe me I know, posts from people like bentgate, Jay42, and yourself always keep a smile on my face simply because I know there is a light in all the dark.<hr></blockquote><p>Wow! Thanks LoreLady! This is the first time I have ever been mentioned in the forums and I am literally blushing right now<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I am excited for the new changes coming to Live soon. I cannot wait for them to arrive. I think any Ranger in their right mind knew we were doing way too much DPS before LU-20. Yes, there is a very vocal minority out there but I think most of the anger was directed at SOE. God knows, I hated them, not for what they had done to the Ranger, but more for how they went about the changes. SOE definately needs a PR course<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Change is part of any MMO but I think SOE could have handled it a little bit better.</p><p>With that said,  I am excited for the new changes and I have been enjoying playing my Ranger after some minor adjustments. I am using Ranger's Blade and Longblade alot more along with Emberstrike. Those were all but forgotten pre- LU-20. It is fun doing the happy ranger dance again and rediscovering the "Sweet Spot".</p><p>Also, to the OP, after the combat changes we had a whole flock of people become Rangers because they became "uber DPS of the month". Before the CU, it was just Rangers who loved the Ranger for what they represented - woodsman, loners, and marksmen.  We have always played Rangers and always will. We were positive because we loved the Ranger and no amount of nerfage or gimping would make us switch. I think you will see as people flock to the next "uber DPS of the month" that the boards will grow more positive.</p><p>Elbryan64 Ranger</p><p> </p><p>Elbryan64 Ranger</p>

[Sirlutt]

Mostly its not the nerf that people are upset about, its the fact that Sony doesnt understand the mechanics behind their own game.  Rangers shouldnt have ended up like this.  It reeks of gross incompetence on SOE's part.The changes they are introducing arent going to bring Rangers back to where they need to be.  You have 2 kinds of Rangers left now, those who have alot of time invested in their characters and cant bear the thought of rerolling or changing.  They are quietly sitting in the corner with their arms wrapped around their legs, rocking back and forth muttering softly tothem selves thats its all going to be ok.  its just a bad dream and the nasty old SOE Boogey man wont be there when they wake up and all will be well eventually.on the other side of the padded cell is the other Ranger.. the one storming about, throwing tables and yelling at the top of his lung "SONY HOW DARE YOU FSCK WITH MY G0D D4MNED CHARACTER!!! YOU BETTER GET IN HERE AND FIX THIS G0D D4MN [Removed for Content]!!!" .. he glares over at the rocking ranger occasionally and snorts, flaring his nostrals.and then going about their business outside the walls of the "facility" are the other Rangers, those that shrugged, threw up their hands in despair and started their 3rd, 4th or 5th "Main" and reflected on how it'll be only another 1 or 2 updates before this character too is screwed up..<div></div>

[macte]

<div></div><p>Anyone reading this board pre-LU20 would have noticed that the "responsible" rangers knew of the problems and were not only willing to be nerfed, but gave many reasonable suggestions on how it could be done.  The proc mechanic(not a bug, what [Removed for Content] calls something that works the way you designed it a bug because it doesn't scale the way you expected /rant off) had to be changed...SOE couldn't work around it as levels went up.  What is so frustrating is that they went from idea to test to live in about a week, and made many public statements that suggested they were ignorant of their own game.  Even worse, they put in many smaller fixes originally intended to be workarounds even though they were no longer needed after proc change.</p><p>Many of us Rangers have adapted and continue to play, that doesn't mean in any way that we are happy or satisfied with the current situation.  Many of us are cautiously optimistic about LU21.  Truly, the ones still nasty probably wouldn't have been rangers had it not been for uberness in the first place.  On the other hand, if LU21 doesn't deliver a solid, playable class that can hold its own in solo, group and raid situations...well, some of us will get crabby again.</p><p>All that said, I am hopeful that for all the bad of LU20, it will thin the ranks some.  Hoping that the FoTM Rangers will move on to something else.  Then we can get back to proper rangering. heh.</p>

[Avendelf]

<div></div>Yeah i think mactell pretty much nailed it...though tbh im not sure how many more nerfs i can take before i just give up EQ2 altogether.  I dont want to reroll another class i want my ranger the way he is supposed to be and not gimped all to hell...if they even make us reasonably comparable again i would happy...but now and with news that PBS might get nerfed also...that cancel account button is looking all the more friendly...we will see i guess...im not so optimistic about LU21 as i was before

[Guy De Alsace]

My main is a 63 Ranger but across the board I'm finding it more and more frustrating playing my characters. You always try to push your character forward but somehow they always seem to be less powerful the higher level they become.My Fury was a really great character to play early on. She did great damage and could survive the odd encounter with a heroic mob. Even kill them. Now she gets hammered by green heroics at lvl 43.Its no suprise that my Ranger is weak now but I'm finding the recent changes have effectively introduced across the board nerfs making it frustrating rather than enjoying to play. The parry rates and the fact that monsters seem trained by Neo doesnt help. Social aggro which was a minor problem before is now a major problem in KoS due to the very high monster density.Its certainly less fun now than it was.<div></div>

[Dragonlor]

<div>Well I knew the ranger spirit was still alive out there and I think it is important that you all have taken the time here and in other threads to make sure the mainstream opinion is heard as well.  It was really great to hear from so many of you on this topic.  Once again continued luck to each of you!</div>

[dbmoreland]

Sorry, I just had to reply to Sirlutt...There is a 4th kind of Ranger, that player who has always played a Ranger in EVERY SINGLE RPG that they every played, all the way back to D&D (if they are old enough). They did exactly the same thing after LU20 that they did after the other 19 patches that preceded it. They looked at the changes, figured out how the "new" system works, and went about learning how to do the same things they have always done with their Ranger. Solo, in a group, or in a raid, they do quests, they explore the world, they help their friends, neighbors and even the lost stranger, they hunt down and kill their enemies (mobs) and they have fun doing it all. They do not really mind all that much that the game keeps changing, if they did they would have left after the first few LUs ("Live Update Patches&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. They actualy enjoy the challenge of playing this game, not the least of which is that it keeps changing EVERY SINGLE MONTH, 20 times so far, including two MAJOR changes when each of the two expansions were released.So before you claim that there are only three types of rangers: The ones curled up in a ball in the corner, the ones storming around throwing fits and the ones that have quit, please remember that there are still some of us that ARE playing the game RIGHT NOW, AND ENJOYING IT, very, very much.<div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>dbmoreland wrote:Sorry, I just had to reply to Sirlutt...There is a 4th kind of Ranger, that player who has always played a Ranger in EVERY SINGLE RPG that they every played, all the way back to D&D (if they are old enough). They did exactly the same thing after LU20 that they did after the other 19 patches that preceded it. They looked at the changes, figured out how the "new" system works, and went about learning how to do the same things they have always done with their Ranger. Solo, in a group, or in a raid, they do quests, they explore the world, they help their friends, neighbors and even the lost stranger, they hunt down and kill their enemies (mobs) and they have fun doing it all. They do not really mind all that much that the game keeps changing, if they did they would have left after the first few LUs ("Live Update Patches&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. They actualy enjoy the challenge of playing this game, not the least of which is that it keeps changing EVERY SINGLE MONTH, 20 times so far, including two MAJOR changes when each of the two expansions were released.So before you claim that there are only three types of rangers: The ones curled up in a ball in the corner, the ones storming around throwing fits and the ones that have quit, please remember that there are still some of us that ARE playing the game RIGHT NOW, AND ENJOYING IT, very, very much.<div></div><hr></blockquote>ah yes.. the elusive endangered Ranger .. how could i forget them...so to recap .. we have Rangeris WTFrickis!!!one! ....... Rangeris iamokiamokiamokacious ............. Rangeris kthxbyecious ... and the rare Rangeris whatyoutalkinboutwillis</span></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>dbmoreland wrote:Sorry, I just had to reply to Sirlutt...There is a 4th kind of Ranger, that player who has always played a Ranger in EVERY SINGLE RPG that they every played, all the way back to D&D (if they are old enough). They did exactly the same thing after LU20 that they did after the other 19 patches that preceded it. They looked at the changes, figured out how the "new" system works, and went about learning how to do the same things they have always done with their Ranger. Solo, in a group, or in a raid, they do quests, they explore the world, they help their friends, neighbors and even the lost stranger, they hunt down and kill their enemies (mobs) and they have fun doing it all. They do not really mind all that much that the game keeps changing, if they did they would have left after the first few LUs ("Live Update Patches&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. They actualy enjoy the challenge of playing this game, not the least of which is that it keeps changing EVERY SINGLE MONTH, 20 times so far, including two MAJOR changes when each of the two expansions were released.So before you claim that there are only three types of rangers: The ones curled up in a ball in the corner, the ones storming around throwing fits and the ones that have quit, please remember that there are still some of us that ARE playing the game RIGHT NOW, AND ENJOYING IT, very, very much.<div></div><hr></blockquote>ah yes.. the elusive endangered Ranger .. how could i forget them...so to recap .. we have Rangeris WTFrickis!!!one! ....... Rangeris iamokiamokiamokacious ............. Rangeris kthxbyecious ...<font size="4" color="#00cc66"> and the rare Rangeris whatyoutalkinboutwillis</font></span></div><hr></blockquote>Too Funny...ty sirlutt for the laugh so early in the morning.

[Jay]

<div></div><p>The forums used to be friendlier b/c there were more ppl that were happy to be rangers. So we thrived as a community, got on well, helped each other, and enjoyed the game. That's changed drastically; most people posting are unhappy being rangers now. If you're okay with the class, you'd have to be masochistic to do much posting around here nowadays, b/c you're not going to change anyone's mind about anything and you're only going to let a whole lot of complaining ruin your good time. Many longtime members of the community post far less frequently or have left the forums altogether, b/c they're tired of wading through all the crap and would rather salvage what enjoyment they can out of the game, instead of trying to convince someone who WANTS to be unhappy that it's not as bad as it seems.</p><p>Personally, I'm still enjoying the game and my main, but I don't do as much reading / posting here lately. What I do post is generally not happy funtime stuff, it's frustration with certain game changes and with the sense of entitlement that seems so pervasive lately. I knew it would take a long time for us to get past the Uber Ranger Era, but I didn't expect such continual demands to be remade into some kind of super-class. Frankly, I'm disappointed in my own inability to keep a good attitude despite the changes in our community, but I'll just sit tight, help where I can, and hope that things settle down a bit in the next few months. When the smoke clears, we may have returned to the kind of group we used to be, and could even be the stronger for having endured this ordeal.</p>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">As always Kaeros, well said.</font><div></div>

[macte]

<div></div>Right after the LU, I saw a lot of posts of people pointing out their experiences and frustrations.  Then I began seeing posts by people not only claiming that we weren't really nerfed (or that the nerf really doesn't affect our ability to play), but that everyone should  just shut up.  These people tick me off because they are nasty and mean to people simply trying to vent a bad situation.  For a while, every time someone would post that they weren't as effective as before, one of these demented fanboys or whatever they are would call the OP a liar, or claim they just didn't know how to play or whatever.  These people should be ashamed of themselves, and they are still posting so they probably will read this.The Ranger thing to do is to either agree with the person, ignore them and let them vent because they obviously needed to let it out, or as it would have been in the Ranger community I was a part of in EQ1 - tell them you understand but that you have some hints and tips to help them be more effective now.  I've seen precious little of that here, and it brings me down.The other issue I have is the whiners.  Not people saying they aren't happy or whatever, but the ones that also pop up on every positive thread with cries that we are unplayable, unusable, and SOE will never fix us.  They also post pessimism about every proposal SOE makes.  Hey, the nerf was bad and clearly not thought through, but getting feedback from the devs that they see  what they've done only a few weeks after the nerf is nearly unprecedented in MMORPG history, and we should definitely give the benefit of the doubt to them. If you think I've called you out here, do me a favor, stop and think it over.  Let's bring the Ranger spirit back to the forums.  I know I have been guilt of some bad attitude(and a little whining) too. I hope we can move forward as a community. Edited because I can't EVER get a post right the first time.<div></div><p>Message Edited by mactell on <span class="date_text">03-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:08 PM</span></p>

[Sokolov]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:Mostly its not the nerf that people are upset about, its the fact that Sony doesnt understand the mechanics behind their own game.  Rangers shouldnt have ended up like this.  It reeks of gross incompetence on SOE's part.<hr></blockquote>This was not a secret from day one - the Devs make some interesting calls, but this was NOT one of them! The "Ranger nerf" was actually a fix for one of the most broken mechanics in the entire game.  I say bravo devs for having the balls to fix it despite the lashing they knew they would get from the one class that benefited from the broken mechanic the most.Also, I commend the devs for the swift (yes, swift) response to the Ranger issues.  But it doesn't excuse their lack of response to everything else, especially tradeskills.</span><div></div>

[Asla]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:Mostly its not the nerf that people are upset about, its the fact that Sony doesnt understand the mechanics behind their own game.  Rangers shouldnt have ended up like this.  <strong>It reeks of gross incompetence on SOE's part.</strong><div></div><hr></blockquote>Amen.

[TaleraRis]

Well said, Kaeros. I'm reading a lot here, but certainly not posting like I was. I have tried to help by sharing my personal experiences, since I solo and have had to utilize skills all along that some Rangers are only having to utilize after the Uber Ranger Era. I've gotten weak response to such endeavors though, as the predominant feeling doesn't seem to be reflection or being constructive, but as you said, demanding to be turned back into a horribly overpowered class. I, like you, hope that especially after these fixes go in, we can all come together as a community once more.<div></div>

[macte]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><span>Also, I regret to say I'm leaving.  Circumstances beyond my control have brought my time in EQ2 to an end.  March 16th is my last day.  I am really not sure how long I'll be gone, but I'll be back as soon as I am able.</span><div></div><p>Edit:Took out most of the text after realizing I really sounded like a jerk.Edit: Took out the rest of the text because I like all you guys, and love rangers, and not really sure hwat I posted would really help the situation.</p><p>Message Edited by mactell on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:40 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by mactell on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:54 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by mactell on <span class="date_text">03-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:56 AM</span></p>

[Dark_Moons_Rising]

<div></div><p>:smileysad:</p><p> Hard to say guys,, but im leaving as well, not the game or the class i have loved since the early D&D days, but the forums themselves. I find it hard to come in here daily, only to read more and more post about how were a broken class, tried to come up with ways to fix us, H3ll we all  have.. I do remember having to go 10 levels as a scout, then 10 levels as a predator to reach the ranger class,, so to me,, not much has realy changed from the way i have played.</p><p>:smileysad: I remember the day i logged in as LU13 came in,, i went to everfrost to see just how bad the damage was to our beloved class,, only to see a summoner that was 2 levels below me, take out a heroic 3^^^ mob that was 2 levels above me. I stayed true to being a ranger and adapted, learned how to solo and what i needed to do to be a benefit to any grp i was in.</p><p>:smileysad: i see all the changes to the game,, the faster than the olympic sprinter-more agil than neo mobs,  I see the silent nerfs,, and the ones they do tell us about, and i try to adjust as best i can.</p><p>:smileysad: In my opinion, i do not play PvP, but nor should i be crippled so that others can enjoy that style of game. I have sat here,, night after night for over a year now, learning from other rangers, Silently, and without coment.</p><p>So bye guys, shoot straight and true.</p><p> </p><p>Ledoakain MIstrunner</p><p>58 Ranger</p><p>Order of Valor</p><p>Butcherblock</p>

[KongstadPS]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dbmoreland wrote:Sorry, I just had to reply to Sirlutt...There is a 4th kind of Ranger, that player who has always played a Ranger in EVERY SINGLE RPG that they every played, all the way back to D&D (if they are old enough). They did exactly the same thing after LU20 that they did after the other 19 patches that preceded it. They looked at the changes, figured out how the "new" system works, and went about learning how to do the same things they have always done with their Ranger. Solo, in a group, or in a raid, they do quests, they explore the world, they help their friends, neighbors and even the lost stranger, they hunt down and kill their enemies (mobs) and they have fun doing it all. They do not really mind all that much that the game keeps changing, if they did they would have left after the first few LUs ("Live Update Patches&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. They actualy enjoy the challenge of playing this game, not the least of which is that it keeps changing EVERY SINGLE MONTH, 20 times so far, including two MAJOR changes when each of the two expansions were released.So before you claim that there are only three types of rangers: The ones curled up in a ball in the corner, the ones storming around throwing fits and the ones that have quit, please remember that there are still some of us that ARE playing the game RIGHT NOW, AND ENJOYING IT, very, very much.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>/Sign</p><p>I just log on my ranger, look at my bow for a bit then head off to hunt some FP'ers. I love being a ranger/archer, always been in all games <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>