Turn the @#$%! Mob!!

[Karnacc]

<div>Every exp group I join I have to send the MT the same message : "Soandso, can you please turn the mobs' back to the group? dont wanna aggro adds trying to get position, and range, behind".</div><div>It baffles me how most tanks dont seem to get it. Why risk the group when simply stepping through the mob and turning around can save a whole lot of trouble. I often have to explain how all my dps is range based and rear/flanking attacks.</div><div>Some tanks will say "OK..will do", and they do it for about 5 - 6 fights then it's back to just running up to the mob and flailing away. I just stand there and fling arrows from the front, getting parried all over the place. I do make all efforts to flank em when I cant get behind but that takes away all the ranged CAs when in a tight dungeon tunnel.</div><div>I've seen groups get adds alot and wipe when the assassin, or other ranger unknowingly steps back into aggro range of another mob or agrros a roamer. It usually takes me repeating the request in group, for the tank to understand. What is it? Do tanks not play scouts ever? Why is turning a mob not as simple matter of common sense?</div><div>Im lvl 43 and I have yet to group with a tank in CT or RE or wherever that positioned the mobs before I had to say something.</div><div>Do anybody else have experiences like this?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div>It might be a good point to bring up on the Tank Class forums (tactfully and politely to be sure).

[Sirlutt]

having been a ranger and now playing a Tank .. i ALWAYS turn the mobs.<div></div>

[ADW123]

<div>Just had a group w/ a tank like this last night. The tank is simply being lazy. Its takes 2 seconds to flip the mob and this small little thing can increase dps by so much. If we are forced to run around the mob its not only more work but dangerous to try and avoid nearby adds.</div><div> </div><div>These are the same types of tanks that taunt occasionally and use half of their utilitiy and the type of tanks that require 2 healers. This is what happens with a game as easy at eq2. People like this manage to get up to high levels, when they should never be there w/ their lack of skill</div><div> </div><div>Sacrifice</div><div>65 Ranger</div><div>Unrest</div>

[dwarfnuna]

<div></div>I have all tanks that turn the mobs on speed dial.  First time Tank did the flip mob trick I was in awe.  Such a time saver/ lifesaver Tanks that know to turn the mobs are bring there "A" Game to the group.

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Agree with this wholeheartedly, being a tank and a dps this is just a smart thing to do.  All scout classes need the mob turned /duh, and it keeps the mages and healers out of danger also.  Can't believe sometimes when i'm on my assassin at all the high level tanks that have no compunction to do a 180 for craps sake.  Let all tanks know to turn the mob i do it 100% of the time also.

[Laia]

I think I will hug our guild's high level Guardian and give him a big smooch the next time he logs on.  <span>:smileytongue:</span>  I have never seen him <font color="#cc0066">NOT</font> turn a mob, even on those glass bridges over the lava in Sol's Eye.  I don't think it's because he's ever played a scout class (that I know of), but more his awareness of game mechanics.<div></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div>If you ever player eq1 you will turn the mob 90% of the time , that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] was life or death..friggen 2k ripos ans such...infact you will probally corner tank it if the space allows. I see alot of eq2 noobs ( yes getting level 60 in eq2 after 2 months still makes you a noob) that have no clue what the hell that they are doing beside mashing attack/taunt 1 2 3 no positioning, no turning,no nothing. There should be a class like drivers ed for tanking.

[Teksun]

Thats one of the many reasons I only group in guild. Granted, I still have to train some fighters, but I know they will learn it and continue to do it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Dyr]

<div></div><div>Top Ten things I like to see from a Tank</div><div> </div><div>1. Pullls with a taunt if possible.</div><div> </div><div>2. Turns the Mob or tells when the tactical situation prevents that</div><div> </div><div>3. Has a Spam messaage or tells group or raid when he is perma -stunned and  not building aggro.</div><div> </div><div>4. Calls for full DPS when he is sure he has aggro-lock (tho rangers in past could still break it, and good ones would tell ya what mobs to be weary of pulling aggro on )</div><div> </div><div>5. Talks about his weapon and gear setup as having 2 main prioroties 1. Make the Healers life easy 2. Aggro</div><div> </div><div>6. Undertsands that sometimes things go bad and you die.</div><div> </div><div>7. Is impatient and pulls fast and furious in exp grinds, and is slow and cautious in raids or quest instances</div><div> </div><div>8. Takes control of the group, calls pulls, decides where fights are to occur, BUT is willing to listen to good advice</div><div> </div><div>9. Its nice when they are a big target but the best 3 I know are 2 dwarfs and a halfling</div><div> </div><div>10. Cares little about what damage he is doing and alot on how well he is holding aggro.</div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dyrks wrote:<div></div><div>Top Ten things I like to see from a Tank</div><div> </div><div>6. Undertsands that sometimes things go bad and you die.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>This is sort of a pet peeve of mine.  This game has almost zero penalty for death.  People who get upset about dying need a swift kick in the back of the pants.

[Karnacc]

<div></div><div></div><p>Thanks for the replies..nice to see i'm not alone <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I'm gonna post this in some of the tank forums. I'm curious to know how they feel about this.</p><p>Also, let me add that as rangers, lets all spread the word. Dont just settle for what the Tank gives ya, as far as positioning goes. If you say something about it in every group you're in, it'll make it better for all Rangers and other scouts that group with that tank : ). So make sure you let others know how important positioning is.</p><p>Message Edited by Karnacc on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:23 PM</span></p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:having been a ranger and now playing a Tank .. i ALWAYS turn the mobs.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>i just started a guardian and when i turned the mob the 2 rangers i was grouped with still ran around and attacked from the front. looks like bad tanks taught people to run behind. on the other hand when i first started duoing with a friend's pally he didn't turn the mob so i got used to getting into position. when he started turning the mob it was the 3 stooges playing EQ. i guess it's something you need to get used to.</p><p>bongo</p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dyrks wrote:<div></div><div>Top Ten things I like to see from a Tank</div><div> </div><div>1. Pullls with a taunt if possible.</div><div> </div><div>2. Turns the Mob or tells when the tactical situation prevents that</div><div> </div><div>3. Has a Spam messaage or tells group or raid when he is perma -stunned and  not building aggro.</div><div> </div><div>4. Calls for full DPS when he is sure he has aggro-lock (tho rangers in past could still break it, and good ones would tell ya what mobs to be weary of pulling aggro on )</div><div> </div><div>5. Talks about his weapon and gear setup as having 2 main prioroties 1. Make the Healers life easy 2. Aggro</div><div> </div><div>6. Undertsands that sometimes things go bad and you die.</div><div> </div><div>7. Is impatient and pulls fast and furious in exp grinds, and is slow and cautious in raids or quest instances</div><div> </div><div>8. Takes control of the group, calls pulls, decides where fights are to occur, BUT is willing to listen to good advice</div><div> </div><div>9. Its nice when they are a big target but the best 3 I know are 2 dwarfs and a halfling</div><div> </div><div>10. Cares little about what damage he is doing and alot on how well he is holding aggro.</div><hr></blockquote><p>#8 is key. i've grouped with tanks that wont lead. they wait foreveryone else. while playing my cleric and necro i was leading cause the tank wouldn't do anything. eek.</p><p>bongo</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div>ever hear people snipin on rangers for pullin too many adds? this thread is the simple xplaination...

[Avendelf]

<div></div>Haha pretty sad...when I came to EQ2 from my raiding guild in EQ1 I was completely shocked that none of these tanks were turning the mobs.  Not only for rangers but (it was this way in EQ1 not sure about EQ2 for melee) but parry and riposte (mainly riposte) were big factors for other melees in the group but only got riposted on front attacks so mob was always turned, always, regardless of backstabs / culling of the weak etc...and now in EQ2 it's like a novelty and I have to appreciate the fact when a tank actually knows to do this...seems like common sense to me (especially if riposte works the same way)

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Rules of Tanking</p><p>1) Positioning</p><p>A) Making sure its a clean pull , ie no adds ... if so take wanderers before anything else</p><p>B) Try and time the repops so u dont get a nasty mobs popping on you</p><p>C) TURN THE MOB !!! THIS IS A MUST FOR ALL TANKS  .. not only do most dps have mainly rear position attacks but it enables you to see any possible adds and more importantly keep an eye on all grouped mobs to see which one u may lose aggro off.</p><p>2) Taunting , Spam .. plain and simple , we lock aggro . dont try and dps whats the point when its another classes job . why waste power when u can finsih the fight have no downtime and pull the next mob no fuss at all. Always open the pull with a taunt helps u lockdown aggro from the offset rather than having to work for it. Helps to maintain rapid pulls without d/t</p><p>3) MOST IMPORTANT , If a scout class wants to be gung ho and grab all the agrro trying to prove how uber he is then let him have the mob get smacked and then die  .. dont waste effort trying to get aggro back wait till he dies then get aggro back :smileyvery-happy: might learn a lesson then lol .. hey if he wants to tank let him ... oh and oh NEVER EVER LET the healer die if things go bad ! ever .. GOT IT ? EVER</p><p> </p><p>If a tank isnt doing any of this then he needs a kick up the backside</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:56 PM</span></p>

[Wasuna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Rules of Tanking</p><p>C) TURN THE MOB !!! THIS IS A MUST FOR ALL TANKS  .. not only do most dps have mainly rear position attacks but it enables you to see any possible adds and more importantly keep an eye on all grouped mobs to see which one u may lose aggro off.</p><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:56 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Bull crap. I play a Guardian who DOES NOT have 360 degree avoidance. You play a Bruiser with 360 degree avoidance. I will work to give the group the back of the mob but the mobs always circle to my left when pulled even if I put a wall to me left. I WILL NOT give anything even or higher my back for any reason and if that means DPS has to move their feet to get in position then get to it.

[Brynshand]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<p>Rules of Tanking</p><p>C) TURN THE MOB !!! THIS IS A MUST FOR ALL TANKS  .. not only do most dps have mainly rear position attacks but it enables you to see any possible adds and more importantly keep an eye on all grouped mobs to see which one u may lose aggro off.</p><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:56 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Bull crap. I play a Guardian who DOES NOT have 360 degree avoidance. You play a Bruiser with 360 degree avoidance. I will work to give the group the back of the mob but the mobs always circle to my left when pulled even if I put a wall to me left. I WILL NOT give anything even or higher my back for any reason and if that means DPS has to move their feet to get in position then get to it.<hr></blockquote>Well  -  I haven't played a tank for long - my Paly is only level 7 right now so I can't speak from TANK experience but....As a scout I am ALWAYS circling to get better position.  And in doing so I never show my back to the mob.  Now, unless things work differently that way for different  classes </span><span>(which I HIGHLY doubt) </span><span>then you CAN circle the mob without showing it your kiester.  Just takes some practice.</span></div>

[Stormhawk]

<span><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:Bull crap. I play a Guardian who DOES NOT have 360 degree avoidance. You play a Bruiser with 360 degree avoidance. I will work to give the group the back of the mob but the mobs always circle to my left when pulled even if I put a wall to me left. I WILL NOT give anything even or higher my back for any reason and if that means DPS has to move their feet to get in position then get to it.<hr></blockquote>It doesn't matter if you have 360 degree avoidance.  You will flip that mob or you WILL cause a reduction in DPS or additional possible adds.  Your group needs to remain in the area that was already cleared 100% of the time.  If you have your back to the group you are only asking for disaster.  It is also best that the mobs see YOU first, not us.  By not flipping a mob and forcing your DPS ( especially ranged DPS ) to run around, you are placing your DPS in the red zone and just begging for adds.  You then have to work harder to regain control. If they are hitting you, you can just step back or turn 90 degrees, you then have your mobs under control and your DPS have to slightly adjust but are still in an area safe from adds.</span><div></div>

[Zodi]

<div>My friend, my alt is a level 63 guardian and I always try to turn the mob away from the group.  the main reason i do this is because I can watch their back for any adds and they watch mine. I cant believe that actually not may tanks do this. I thought it was like an standard.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><div>You rangers are talking like you HAVE to ONLY attack from the rear and if a tank doesnt flip you will get behind the mob, pull adds, and its the tanks fault. Yes a tank can position for you and its easier then for the ranger but if you ran out and pull aggro thats your fault not the tanks</div><p>Message Edited by Rhianni on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 PM</span></p>

[Kai'va Arros]

Had a pally tanking for us in Clefts today. Guy did an amazing job. Thanked him several times.

[SpiralDown]

We do have to be behind the mob, its called FLANKING ATTACKS, its  a scout thing.  Tanks are meant to be in front of the mob and in harms way.  In fact, tanks are really only utility, very vital but still utility none the less, for the dps to do what is suppose to be done... kill the mob.  Game focuses around killing the mob, if the game focused around the tank we'd all need more than one in a grp, but we don't, we  just need one, need 3-4 dps however.   DPS out numbers the tank, so why shouldn't one person take 5 steps to help out the majority of the grp. Any arguement against turning the mob is just ego.  Always hearing, "Dont tell me how to play MY class."  Well, the tank, healers and dps are all looking at different things so each could give perspective to the others.  When I was still a squirt in my lower lvl days, a tank told me, "dont use your high dmg attack first, you're always taking aggro." (He did put it nicer) I listened and became better after it.So any tanks left with the notion that scouts are just being lazy, lets see how they do when dps doesn't help them out, just open up with nukes and fire away, pushing your dmg as high as it can go without bothering to use deaggro.  Or dont try to off tank when the healer gets hate.  Dont bother with crowd control...  Not simply turning the mob is like saying we arent all in the same grp, and arent worried about helping each other out.<div></div>

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Most scout attacks are probably 80% from the back, turning the mob isnt hard, dont be a lazy tank.

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><div>You rangers are talking like you HAVE to ONLY attack from the rear and if a tank doesnt flip you will get behind the mob, pull adds, and its the tanks fault. Yes a tank can position for you and its easier then for the ranger but if you ran out and pull aggro thats your fault not the tanks</div><p>Message Edited by Rhianni on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wrong.  The tank is the one holding aggro and getting the heals.  If the tank fails to position the mob correctly and someone else gains aggro from an approaching mob, it is the tanks fault.  Period.  If you do not turn the mob, you are reducing your group's DPS by about 30%.  This isn't about Rangers, all scouts have positional attacks.  The tank should always be positioned between the mob and approaching mobs.  How is it a tank doesn't know this most basic rule of thumb?

[Jay]

<div></div><p>My only comment here is that I want a tank to pick one and STICK TO IT. Don't turn the mobs 50% of the time b/c you forget, but you wanna be helpful on those times you actually remember to. Either turn the mob or don't, but be consistent in whichever you choose. If you want me to run around to the back, I will - and that will affect my positioning during pulls, my awareness of the space around me, and the sequence of my CAs, so I want to *know* what you're doing, and I want you to do it the same way 100% of the time.  If you can't remember to turn them every time, don't bother doing it at all - that's fine. I just can't stand chasing the tank around in circles b/c he didn't turn the mob at first, then remembered a few seconds after pulling and decided to swing the mob around after I was already in place.</p><p>That said, I play a tank too, and it's tricky. I know just how frustrating it can be to scouts, so if I goof up the positioning on a pull, I always apologize afterwards - at least they'll know that I'm aware of the situation.</p>

[DarkMirrax]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Wasuna wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>DarkMirrax wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Rules of Tanking</p><p>C) TURN THE MOB !!! THIS IS A MUST FOR ALL TANKS  .. not only do most dps have mainly rear position attacks but it enables you to see any possible adds and more importantly keep an eye on all grouped mobs to see which one u may lose aggro off.</p><p>Message Edited by DarkMirrax on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:56 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Bull crap. I play a Guardian who DOES NOT have 360 degree avoidance. You play a Bruiser with 360 degree avoidance. I will work to give the group the back of the mob but the mobs always circle to my left when pulled even if I put a wall to me left. I WILL NOT give anything even or higher my back for any reason and if that means DPS has to move their feet to get in position then get to it.<hr></blockquote><p>360 avoidance means crap all , we get avoidance cos we hurt when we take the blows where as you guys dont , you get all the mit due to the nice heavy plate armour you get so u just take the blows as intended . </p><p>Everyone knows 80 % of rangers attacks are flanking attacks and practically 100 % of the assassins are flanking attacks , granted for mages it aint important but when u got rogue/scouts with u its a given u turn the mob or they have to work around the back of the mob which means they end up pulling an add onto themselves instead when it can be easily avioded by given them the mobs back to begin with , its not hard its just common sense and good tanking.    You do know u can spin the camera around whilst taunting a mob so you can check for adds at your rear right :smileywink:</p>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><div>You rangers are talking like you HAVE to ONLY attack from the rear and if a tank doesnt flip you will get behind the mob, pull adds, and its the tanks fault. Yes a tank can position for you and its easier then for the ranger but if you ran out and pull aggro thats your fault not the tanks</div><p>Message Edited by Rhianni on <span class="date_text">03-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Wrong.  The tank is the one holding aggro and getting the heals.  If the tank fails to position the mob correctly and someone else gains aggro from an approaching mob, it is the tanks fault.  Period.  If you do not turn the mob, you are reducing your group's DPS by about 30%.  This isn't about Rangers, all scouts have positional attacks.  The tank should always be positioned between the mob and approaching mobs.  How is it a tank doesn't know this most basic rule of thumb?<hr></blockquote><p>Tank keeps mobs aggro.  scout runs around to back side to get better dps.  scout pulls second encounter and that is the tanks fault?  Let me know which spell takes control of another player and moves them around. I never trained that one.  Must be some nasty bug affecting scouts cause the healers and the mages dont seem to be controlled to be FORCED by the tank to move.</p><p>I'm not disputing that a tank should or shouldnt position for others benefit thats a matter of opinion.  What I am saying is that each player picks where they stand in a fight and are responsible for their own characters actions.</p>

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Tank keeps mobs aggro.  scout runs around to back side to get better dps.  scout pulls second encounter and that is the tanks fault?  Let me know which spell takes control of another player and moves them around. I never trained that one.  Must be some nasty bug affecting scouts cause the healers and the mages dont seem to be controlled to be FORCED by the tank to move.</p><p>I'm not disputing that a tank should or shouldnt position for others benefit thats a matter of opinion.  What I am saying is that each player picks where they stand in a fight and are responsible for their own characters actions.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Let me set up a common senario for you. Tank pulls mobs and <strong>does not turn</strong> them. Scout move to the back to get into optimal DPS position because his/her job is DPS and if they're not behind the mob then they're not doing their job. <strong>Wandering</strong> mobs come up behind said scout and add to the encounter. They kill said scout (there goes a chunk of DPS) then run for the healer who was trying to save the scouts life. Mean while heals are <strong>not on</strong> the MT who may or may not also die in the ensuing mayhem. Was it the scouts fault that the mobs wandered up behind and agroed? No. The scout was just <strong>doing his/her job</strong> and putting out their max DPS.</p><p>Let's set it up this way. Same encounter the tank turns the mob this time. This time the mobs first agro on the MT who is 1) made for taking hits and 2) already has heals incoming. The tank does his/her job and get's agro from the adds and holds them down.</p><p>The difference between those 2. First one leads to a possible wipe. Second one does not. This is why tanks should Turn the @#$%! Mob!!</p>

[Bayler_x]

I'm going to side with Rhianni for this one: just because the tank isn't turning the mob doesn't absolve a scout of his responsibility to be cautious.  He has a choice: stay put and do poor damage, or hang out on the far side of the mob where he may attract adds.  He'd better have estimated the risks of that action and decided if it was worth it.  If not - if he's a mindless slave to his combat art buttons - then he is just as much at fault (if not more) than the tank.Of course, ideally, he'd actually talk to the tank about it instead. And where does this "80%" number come from?  I count 1 bow art, 2 normal combat arts, and our creature-master strikes.  (I don't have Sniper Shot yet - not sure about that.)<div></div>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Tank keeps mobs aggro.  scout runs around to back side to get better dps.  scout pulls second encounter and that is the tanks fault?  Let me know which spell takes control of another player and moves them around. I never trained that one.  Must be some nasty bug affecting scouts cause the healers and the mages dont seem to be controlled to be FORCED by the tank to move.</p><p>I'm not disputing that a tank should or shouldnt position for others benefit thats a matter of opinion.  What I am saying is that each player picks where they stand in a fight and are responsible for their own characters actions.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Let me set up a common senario for you. Tank pulls mobs and <strong>does not turn</strong> them. Scout move to the back to get into optimal DPS position because his/her job is DPS and if they're not behind the mob then they're not doing their job. <strong>Wandering</strong> mobs come up behind said scout and add to the encounter. They kill said scout (there goes a chunk of DPS) then run for the healer who was trying to save the scouts life. Mean while heals are <strong>not on</strong> the MT who may or may not also die in the ensuing mayhem. Was it the scouts fault that the mobs wandered up behind and agroed? No. The scout was just <strong>doing his/her job</strong> and putting out their max DPS.</p><p>Let's set it up this way. Same encounter the tank turns the mob this time. This time the mobs first agro on the MT who is 1) made for taking hits and 2) already has heals incoming. The tank does his/her job and get's agro from the adds and holds them down.</p><p>The difference between those 2. First one leads to a possible wipe. Second one does not. This is why tanks should Turn the @#$%! Mob!!</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah I understand the theory and if you guys would read what I posted instead of targeting me cause I am a tank you might understand that I am not disagreeing with your guy's idea on what the best setup for dps is for a group.  However the scout was the one to pull the aggro its their fault.  Nobody forced them to run out there. You can justify it anyway you want but the scout player pressed the walk forward button. Its their fault.</p><p> </p>

[StealthM0]

<div>/agree with all this cept the guy who said its scouts fault if we draw add.</div><div> </div><div>I have to school tanks in tier5/6 a LOT on this, and yet 6 encounters later they are back at it. THATS WHEN YOU TALK LIKE THIS TO THEM. *)</div><div> </div><div>Not only are most of our attacks based from the rear, like others have said, our dps goes up considerably as it gets riposte'd/parried less.</div><div> </div><div>MAKE A SCOUT HAPPY, TURN THE MOB! I am making that into a macro tonight *)</div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Tank keeps mobs aggro.  scout runs around to back side to get better dps.  scout pulls second encounter and that is the tanks fault?  Let me know which spell takes control of another player and moves them around. I never trained that one.  Must be some nasty bug affecting scouts cause the healers and the mages dont seem to be controlled to be FORCED by the tank to move.</p><p>I'm not disputing that a tank should or shouldnt position for others benefit thats a matter of opinion.  What I am saying is that each player picks where they stand in a fight and are responsible for their own characters actions.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Let me set up a common senario for you. Tank pulls mobs and <strong>does not turn</strong> them. Scout move to the back to get into optimal DPS position because his/her job is DPS and if they're not behind the mob then they're not doing their job. <strong>Wandering</strong> mobs come up behind said scout and add to the encounter. They kill said scout (there goes a chunk of DPS) then run for the healer who was trying to save the scouts life. Mean while heals are <strong>not on</strong> the MT who may or may not also die in the ensuing mayhem. Was it the scouts fault that the mobs wandered up behind and agroed? No. The scout was just <strong>doing his/her job</strong> and putting out their max DPS.</p><p>Let's set it up this way. Same encounter the tank turns the mob this time. This time the mobs first agro on the MT who is 1) made for taking hits and 2) already has heals incoming. The tank does his/her job and get's agro from the adds and holds them down.</p><p>The difference between those 2. First one leads to a possible wipe. Second one does not. This is why tanks should Turn the @#$%! Mob!!</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah I understand the theory and if you guys would read what I posted instead of targeting me cause I am a tank you might understand that I am not disagreeing with your guy's idea on what the best setup for dps is for a group.  However the scout was the one to pull the aggro its their fault.  Nobody forced them to run out there. You can justify it anyway you want but the scout player pressed the walk forward button. Its their fault.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>Now you are playing silly semantics.  Yes, it is the scout's decision to position themselves for optimal DPS when grouping with sub-standard tanks.  So you either position the mob correctly or you force your group members into a choice between a significant reduction in DPS, possibly causing your death followed by the deaths of the rest of your group members, or running around the mob and position themselves near the wandering mobs, which also may result in a group wipe.  All because you are a lazy tank.  But it's everyone else's fault, not your's?  I get it.  You are a real stand-up kind of guy.</p>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Tank keeps mobs aggro.  scout runs around to back side to get better dps.  scout pulls second encounter and that is the tanks fault?  Let me know which spell takes control of another player and moves them around. I never trained that one.  Must be some nasty bug affecting scouts cause the healers and the mages dont seem to be controlled to be FORCED by the tank to move.</p><p>I'm not disputing that a tank should or shouldnt position for others benefit thats a matter of opinion.  What I am saying is that each player picks where they stand in a fight and are responsible for their own characters actions.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Let me set up a common senario for you. Tank pulls mobs and <strong>does not turn</strong> them. Scout move to the back to get into optimal DPS position because his/her job is DPS and if they're not behind the mob then they're not doing their job. <strong>Wandering</strong> mobs come up behind said scout and add to the encounter. They kill said scout (there goes a chunk of DPS) then run for the healer who was trying to save the scouts life. Mean while heals are <strong>not on</strong> the MT who may or may not also die in the ensuing mayhem. Was it the scouts fault that the mobs wandered up behind and agroed? No. The scout was just <strong>doing his/her job</strong> and putting out their max DPS.</p><p>Let's set it up this way. Same encounter the tank turns the mob this time. This time the mobs first agro on the MT who is 1) made for taking hits and 2) already has heals incoming. The tank does his/her job and get's agro from the adds and holds them down.</p><p>The difference between those 2. First one leads to a possible wipe. Second one does not. This is why tanks should Turn the @#$%! Mob!!</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah I understand the theory and if you guys would read what I posted instead of targeting me cause I am a tank you might understand that I am not disagreeing with your guy's idea on what the best setup for dps is for a group.  However the scout was the one to pull the aggro its their fault.  Nobody forced them to run out there. You can justify it anyway you want but the scout player pressed the walk forward button. Its their fault.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>Now you are playing silly semantics.  Yes, it is the scout's decision to position themselves for optimal DPS when grouping with sub-standard tanks.  So you either position the mob correctly or you force your group members into a choice between a significant reduction in DPS, possibly causing your death followed by the deaths of the rest of your group members, or running around the mob and position themselves near the wandering mobs, which also may result in a group wipe.  All because you are a lazy tank.  But it's everyone else's fault, not your's?  I get it.  You are a real stand-up kind of guy.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Once again I never said that.  You are really great at putting words into others' mouth.  If the tank is standing in too close to aggro and pulls mobs then it would be the tanks (my) fault.  I'm not the one not who isnt taking responsibility for my actions :smileyhappy:</p>

[Daghammerskold]

Come on, it is so simple, just turn the mobpleeeeaaaasssse.<div></div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Once again I never said that.  You are really great at putting words into others' mouth.  If the tank is standing in too close to aggro and pulls mobs then it would be the tanks (my) fault.  I'm not the one not who isnt taking responsibility for my actions :smileyhappy:</p><hr></blockquote><p>You don't get it.  You're the tank.  You should place yourself between the mob and the wandering mobs so that <strong>you</strong> get the aggro.  That's not fault, it's design.  You have the mitigation and you have the priest healing you.  I can't believe there is a tank above level 10 that doesn't understand this concept.  And, yes you did say it, just not in so many words.  Also, positioning the mob <strong>is</strong> your responsibility.  You are not a priest, mage, or scout.  You are the tank.  If mob positioning is not your responsibility, who's is it?</p><p>BTW, pulling a mob and aggroing a mob are two different things.</p><p>Pfft.  You aren't my problem anyway.  I don't play on Crushbone.  Later.:smileywink:</p>

[Rhianni]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><p>Once again I never said that.  You are really great at putting words into others' mouth.  If the tank is standing in too close to aggro and pulls mobs then it would be the tanks (my) fault.  I'm not the one not who isnt taking responsibility for my actions :smileyhappy:</p><hr></blockquote><p>You don't get it.  You're the tank.  You should place yourself between the mob and the wandering mobs so that <strong>you</strong> get the aggro.  That's not fault, it's design.  You have the mitigation and you have the priest healing you.  I can't believe there is a tank above level 10 that doesn't understand this concept.  And, yes you did say it, just not in so many words.  Also, positioning the mob <strong>is</strong> your responsibility.  You are not a priest, mage, or scout.  You are the tank.  If mob positioning is not your responsibility, who's is it?</p><p>BTW, pulling a mob and aggroing a mob are two different things.</p><p>Pfft.  You aren't my problem anyway.  I don't play on Crushbone.  Later.:smileywink:</p><hr></blockquote><p>Congratz on picking something else I am not disagreeing with you on, tank mob positioning.  Its funny that you mention people failing to undertand concepts when you are avoiding mine.  Where does that absolve responisibility for the scout running out and pulling aggro? </p>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rhianni wrote:<div></div><blockquote>Where does that absolve responisibility for the scout running out and pulling aggro? </blockquote><hr></blockquote><p>This is the second time you've said this and it still doesn't apply.  This thread is about turning the mobs so wanderers don't get aggro'd by anyone except the tank.  Not about scouts running around aggroing mobs.  Hay, wait a sec...  Leroy?</p>

[R2Chie]

always turn mob...scouts are lazy, and i prefer they atleast do more damage while being lazy :p<div></div>

[Kai'va Arros]

<blockquote><hr>R2Chief2 wrote:always turn mob...scouts are lazy, and i prefer they atleast do more damage while being lazy :p<div></div><hr></blockquote>Ok, had to laugh at that. <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Karnacc]

<div></div><p>After reading the latest posts on this thread, let me say this:</p><p>turn the mob for best dps for your group...</p><p>dont turn the mob and you lessen your dps..</p><p>it's that simple. Why defend that saying its rangers responsibility to get position. The 1st responsiblity is to live. You cant do that if you trying to maximize dps in a dangerous area and the mob is not turned.</p><p>Tanks, answer this question: Would you,</p><p>A.)tell the Scout to do his job and dont worry about and ^^^ heroic yellow adds if he gets em every now and then? </p><p>B.) say, "if you cant get behind, dont sweat it, we'll just take longer to kill em...just watch for adds"</p><p>or</p><p>C.) would you simply turn the mob for maximum dps and fastest killing and exp'ing</p>

[tweety1972]

<div>Ok, a little clarification here. The argument is mute in the last few posts, they are arguing semantics.</div><div> </div><div>Now if the tank does not turn the mob the Ranger should stay in front with the rest and ask the tank to turn the mob, if the tank says no then inform him you need to run around back and risk drawing adds. If he still refuses and you do not want to risk getting adds stay in front and take longer to kill said mob. It is not the tanks fault if you draw adds it is the tanks fault if it takes forever to kill said mob because he refuses to turn the mob.</div><div> </div><div>now stop arguing semantics</div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>tweety1972 wrote:<div>Ok, a little clarification here. The argument is mute in the last few posts, they are arguing semantics.</div><div> </div><div>Now if the tank does not turn the mob the Ranger should stay in front with the rest and ask the tank to turn the mob, if the tank says no then inform him you need to run around back and risk drawing adds. If he still refuses and you do not want to risk getting adds stay in front and take longer to kill said mob. It is not the tanks fault if you draw adds it is the tanks fault if it takes forever to kill said mob because he refuses to turn the mob.</div><div> </div><div>now stop arguing semantics</div><hr></blockquote>Dude.  Your timing is horrible.  Please move on, everyone else has.

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div><p>Glad to see the tanks taking the heat for the GROUP'S ability to function properly, it's everyone's responsibility to make the group work to full potential, if the tank doesnt wanna turn the mob throw him in your mental rolodex for fartknocker and don't group with him/her again.</p><p>Lame to blame one person for poor group dynamic, work it out in chat or move on to the next group.</p>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>WAHHHHHHHHHHHH</p><p>WAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!</p><p><hands out tissues to everybody></p><p>At least blow your nose before you resume pointing fingers. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>No, of course the tank didn't reach thru teh Interweb and press the scout's move key, so of course the scout is responsible for his own position in every battle. But if the scout doesn't have to reposition himself, you're removing another possibility for human error from the situation, and that is a good thing.</p><p>Since we all seem to agree that turning the mobs is a good thing, and that tanks getting any add aggro is preferable to squishy people dying, there's no real need to argue, right? Right. Here, have some pie! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[tweety1972]

<div></div>can I have 2 Kae, I got a cold :smileywink: