Wow only 4 seconds, and I thought they didnt care.

[chrno01]

<font color="FF6600"><b>So our new root is 4 seconds. Thats something....and that something would be crap. You give us a root only for it to be worthless?! What was the point. 4 seconds? I can't even pick my nose that fast w t f! How does that even help us?! Lets look at how to use it.1. Its close range so we have to be in 10m? to cast it.2. Ok the mob is now rooted go power rangers and use your zoids3. ok it droped because I was so overly syked about a root.4. its back on again.5. we back up to where the mob cant hit us (if it can hit us its pretty pointless)6. All attacks aside, we cannot use attacks that require the back or stealth because they take way to long to cast and way to long to get into position.7. So were left with a nice majority of regular bow attacks..kinda. Our double shot and triple shot are basically what were looking at for big damage. casting time 1 and 2 seconds. Now backing up is gona take at least one second. Lets say its slightly larger mob and it takes 2 seconds to back up and to STOP then cast one of those. By the time were done casting root has broken and the mob is back on us and cant root for 20 more seocnds....4 seconds means we get 1 and only 1 bow CA off thats it. You can be the 6 million dollar man and move at [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] super speed and still not get off more. Even if your casting your second bow CA your wont get it off because you didnt have enough time to back far enough up to where you had enough distance to cast more then 1. Is this a joke? 4 seconds? Hell even then if the duration of the bow CA is 1min+ you might not even get another bow CA off because its still down! The root was a really good idea but it needed AT THE VERY LEAST 2 seconds. We don't need enough time to get 2 CA off but at least give us breathing room for 1, 6 seconds ensures we get far enough away, can cast a bow CA withour fear of root breaking and then try to cast either another bow CA or be ready for root to break.</b></font><div></div>

[Stormhawk]

4 seconds will give you 2 shots, you just have to pick the right ones and you only can barely step out of the hit box.  Also, the 35% reduction in cast time AA will pretty much lock in 2 shots if you choose to go that route.<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Chrystolred wrote:<font color="#ff6600"><b>So our new root is 4 seconds. Thats something....and that something would be crap. You give us a root only for it to be worthless?! What was the point. 4 seconds? I can't even pick my nose that fast w t f! How does that even help us?! Lets look at how to use it.1. Its close range so we have to be in 10m? to cast it.2. Ok the mob is now rooted go power rangers and use your zoids3. ok it droped because I was so overly syked about a root.4. its back on again.5. we back up to where the mob cant hit us (if it can hit us its pretty pointless)6. All attacks aside, we cannot use attacks that require the back or stealth because they take way to long to cast and way to long to get into position.7. So were left with a nice majority of regular bow attacks..kinda. Our double shot and triple shot are basically what were looking at for big damage. casting time 1 and 2 seconds. Now backing up is gona take at least one second. Lets say its slightly larger mob and it takes 2 seconds to back up and to STOP then cast one of those. By the time were done casting root has broken and the mob is back on us and cant root for 20 more seocnds....4 seconds means we get 1 and only 1 bow CA off thats it. You can be the 6 million dollar man and move at [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] super speed and still not get off more. Even if your casting your second bow CA your wont get it off because you didnt have enough time to back far enough up to where you had enough distance to cast more then 1. Is this a joke? 4 seconds? Hell even then if the duration of the bow CA is 1min+ you might not even get another bow CA off because its still down! The root was a really good idea but it needed AT THE VERY LEAST 2 seconds. We don't need enough time to get 2 CA off but at least give us breathing room for 1, 6 seconds ensures we get far enough away, can cast a bow CA withour fear of root breaking and then try to cast either another bow CA or be ready for root to break.</b></font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Firstly position attacks are <em>I think</em> out because it's a root, not a stun, so the mob will still be facing you.</p><p>That aside, there's plenty you can do in 4 sec if you snare before rooting, then run to max range before shooting. I'm pretty sure you could get 2 CAs off, which was the stated goal of the root. The period of time before the mob closes on you is also mitigated (in literal terms) damage, which is also no small thing.</p><p>We wont know until people get to play with it. I think the devs are being cautious with these updates, and if it proves too little they can be pestered to raise it once people have made best use of it's limitations.</p><p>The reason for the caution is if it's too long it would risk overpowering kiting. At 6 sec with no finesse to get in your 2 CAs one could simply root, shoot 2 CAs and run away.... rinse and repeat until heroic mob is dead.</p>

[TaleraRis]

I feel it's a bit short for soloing myself, but 4 seconds is more than enough time to get into position for a stealth provided the mob couldn't move to face you, which I think they can still with a root.With a single Cheap Shot I can run through the mob, hit the Shrouded Strike line, then the Crippling Blade Line, hit Surveil, then Raven Embers and it's just waking up as Raven Embers goes off. No, I don't use a macro. I just have really quick fingers and a lot of practice in getting those CAs off one after the other. And that's only 2 seconds longer.I don't think 4 seconds is quite enough for the stated purpose of being able to back up and get off 2 ranged attacks, mostly because of how close you have to be for our lunging line. I can use Sharp Shot in the same spot I use Lunging, but I've gotten "Too close!" messages from Triple Fire (Arrow? I never remember) and the Crippling Arrow line in the same spot.I think if they brought it up to Cheap Shot's 6 seconds that should be enough.<div></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><p>it's strange that a lot of rangers seem to deem triple fire our only bow CA worth using and think of it as our only worthwhile damage dealer. why not use the other CAs with shorter casting times? with the changes they will get a boost, so you'll get more out of them.</p><p>sure, if all 3 arrows of triple hit, you got the big hit. but only if that occurs. anyway, i normally use that CA just at the pull , or at the latest when i cheap shot the first time. then it's gone from that fight (and often the next 1 or 2) cause of its long reuse timer. so i use the other bow CAs when i stun again. why not try doing that?</p><p>anyway, i have the point blank AP, which only gives a 4 second stun too. if i'm not sleeping and i want to, i can get in 2 shots in that time. not triple + another, but 2 short casting ones. and even if it's just one shot, that's A) one shot more and B) some more damage avoidance.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[strider19]

Didn't they change the melee attack range to 10m?  Does that mean if you back up just far enough to shoot they can still attack you?<div></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div><blockquote><hr>strider1987 wrote:Didn't they change the melee attack range to 10m?  Does that mean if you back up just far enough to shoot they can still attack you?<hr></blockquote>could be. the snare, then back up to max range seems a viable tactic in that case.just have to see how the root works out. i tend to want to check out a POSITIVE change before complaining about it...</div><div> </div><div>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</div>

[Tarryn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jarlaxle888 wrote:<div></div><p>it's strange that a lot of rangers seem to deem triple fire our only bow CA worth using and think of it as our only worthwhile damage dealer. why not use the other CAs with shorter casting times? with the changes they will get a boost, so you'll get more out of them.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Like which arts with shorter casting times?  Only ranged attacks I can think of with shorter cast times are the Precise Shot line, the Snaring Shot line, and (now) the Trick Shot line.  I guess the Trick Shot could now be considered a front line attack CA with the new changes, and of course Precise Shot is.  Snaring Shot doesn't do enough damage to consider it a primary attack, imo--it's a utility art.</p><p>I'm not running down the changes, they're certainly a step in the right direction.  Still, I think our Precise Shot and Triple Arrow lines are badly in need of some tweaking.</p>

[Racmo]

<div>I guess there's never an upgrade to the sharp shot line?  The double arrow fire dmg CA.  I love that thing.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>51 ranger</div>

[Bayler_x]

Everyone keeps forgetting that we've got longer than normal range on our DoTs as it is right now.  So presumably we'll be able to rool the mob as it's running toward us.Consider a single mob fight:+hidden shot+Leg Shot+debuffing arrow..mob is nearly to us now..+root+double shot+triple shot..mob runs up and hits us..+Cheap Shot+stealthing blade+hidden-backstab-thing+back shot (while running backwards)That's a lot of damage.<div></div>

[TaleraRis]

<div>Sharp Shot and Crippling Arrow are the two fastest I can think of. I usually use those after the initial pull with Triple or Hidden as the mob is running my way and they manage to go off. However, I can't use Crippling in the same range I can use Sharp Shot for some reason. I've stood in the same place before in groups and Sharp goes off fine, Crippling gives the "Too close!" message. It's rather annoying.</div><div> </div><div>Miracle Arrow is another fast caster, although the damage on that is pitiful. With the upgrade, it might be a worthwhile second shot.</div>

[Serakk]

<div></div><p>And just to add to Shader's posted example add in the following</p><p>Point Blank Shot</p><p>Improved surveil</p><p>Emberstrike</p><p>back to root attack as cooldown should be done,rinse and repeat</p>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:Everyone keeps forgetting that we've got longer than normal range on our DoTs as it is right now.  So presumably we'll be able to rool the mob as it's running toward us.Consider a single mob fight:+hidden shot+Leg Shot+debuffing arrow..mob is nearly to us now..+root+double shot+triple shot..mob runs up and hits us..+Cheap Shot+stealthing blade+hidden-backstab-thing+back shot (while running backwards)That's a lot of damage.<div></div><hr></blockquote>thats also a billion times harcer than root - nuke nuke nuke root nuke nuke nuke.I'd like to see a 6 second root added to one of our ranged attacks that works on anything non epic.  Our ranged debuff arrow would be perfect.  You could then open with a big hitter, hit that and get 3 more ranged CA's off before the mob closes to you.</span></div>

[Star]

<div></div>I believe min bow range is 5m as I can get myself into a spot where I can use things like Emberstrike (max range 5m) and still use all my bow shots except Stream of Arrows. That means you *could* snare the mob and back away till you're bow shots are avaliable then hit the root and no adjustments nessesary. Just hit Triple and Que up Precise. Plus unless they change it the Lunge line can be used on the run so you can get into bow useable range while it's 'casting'.

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:Everyone keeps forgetting that we've got longer than normal range on our DoTs as it is right now.  So presumably we'll be able to rool the mob as it's running toward us.Consider a single mob fight:+hidden shot+Leg Shot+debuffing arrow..mob is nearly to us now..+root+double shot+triple shot..mob runs up and hits us..+Cheap Shot+stealthing blade+hidden-backstab-thing+back shot (while running backwards)That's a lot of damage.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>This is pretty much what I imagined doing with the new root...and I also use leg shot in the beginning (a powerful tool at master 2).  This isnt a hard pattern to go through either...it is my bread and butter fight sequence almost.  Going through all of that should put most mobs below 60% health.</p><p>I am content right now to play the wait and see game...however one thing has changed, I gained enough confidence that I did purchase KoS.  I was debating it if I didnt see changes to fix us in a month or so...I am confident that the Dev's know something is amiss with rangers...and are willing to tool around and fix it.</p><p>I hope they dont make a fool out of me...I do that enough already.</p><p>Sai</p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div>Plus unless they change it the Lunge line can be used on the run so you can get into bow useable range while it's 'casting'.<hr></blockquote><p>yes, a trick i recommend. i do that a lot when casting cheap shot. i start moving and start casting at same time. when it lands i'm already in position to use my attacks.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[Generic123]

<div></div><blockquote><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<span><div><font size="2" color="#ffffff">thats also a billion times harcer than root - nuke nuke nuke root nuke nuke nuke.</font></span><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr></div></blockquote><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff">Nobody gets to use a sequence like that, roots break too frequently and mobs move to fast once they break.<span>  </span>The ranger sequence given also does way more damage then any root&nuke scenario I know of and is pretty easy once you get the rhythm of it.</font></p>

[Jay]

<div></div>Yep, you might actually have to do some work and develop a new tactic or two in order to take advantage of those four seconds. Ah, the humanity!!  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Kyra Del]

I find it interesting that nobody has brought up "The touch of the beholder".  Even though it was a T3 poison, it worked great before the big nerf of U20.  Before, It would root about 80% of the time - so on my first or second arrow shot, the beholder would kick in and the mob would root.  Then I could just unload and drop him before they ever got to me.  Now however, even the beholder has been nerfed and it roots maybe 10% of the time.  I'd like to see the beholder unnerfed (if that's a real word!).  Does anyone else use this poison?<div></div>

[Star]

<div></div>I don't believe that it was the poison that was nerfed. This is because of the proc rate nerf. Basically your poison was procing more often than it should have been and is now procing the correct amount of the time. The fact that the poison is only 10% reliable kinda makes it useless as a root IMO.

[Jayad]

<div></div><div>Plus it seems like SOE still wants us to kite while soloing <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Works great.. except... when you can't.</div><div> </div><div>We'll have to see what it does first, though.</div>

[XxSwiftyxX]

<div></div><div>Not as much as i wanted, but its a start :smileywink:</div>

[StealthM0]

<div></div><div>My .02</div><div> </div><div>This will be nice when it goes live.</div><div> </div><div>Far as attacks during the snare/root....</div><div> </div><div>You can get 2-3 ca's off before this breaks. Little thing called ca scripting/batching.</div><div> </div><div>useability Triple Fire : useability debilitating arrow</div><div> </div><div>Macro that. You can sub the second one with leg shot and you not only did some decent damage, you also slowed the mob for the next ten seconds allowing you to kite it, strafe and get off a culling of the herd (while moving). Then if you REALLY need to do damage, let loose hell with a Storm of Arrows (also able to be fired while moving)! If the mob isn't severely impaired after that you are using the WRONG equipment for the job. Using that combo you will devastate mobs.</div><div> </div><div>Note: In a group this is even easier, this was soloing I was referring to with this post.</div><div> </div><div>EDIT: Added note.</div><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:59 AM</span></p>

[StealthM0]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kyra Del wrote:I find it interesting that nobody has brought up "The touch of the beholder".  Even though it was a T3 poison, it worked great before the big nerf of U20.  Before, It would root about 80% of the time - so on my first or second arrow shot, the beholder would kick in and the mob would root.  Then I could just unload and drop him before they ever got to me.  Now however, even the beholder has been nerfed and it roots maybe 10% of the time.  I'd like to see the beholder unnerfed (if that's a real word!).  Does anyone else use this poison?<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I used this poison in t3, but quickly replaced it in t4 as it was way less effective. I tend to use the stifle/attack speed debuff poisons in replacement of this...</p><p> </p><p>At t6 I am using Adestes (awesome DD low DoT), bite of the shissar (poison resist debuff), and either kendricks stiffling solution (stifle) or the other rare one (reduces attack speed by x%). I use those 3 stacked almost constantly. And dont forget that all important rare potion to either boost str/sta or agi (I use the str/sta one cause my agi is too high as it is).</p>

[chrno01]

<font color="FF6600"><b>Alright lets say 4 seconds IS enough to back up and get one off and if your chuck norris round house kick your faster then light and get 2 CA off thats all good. What about other things like monsters with big attack radius, like giants for example. There attack range and mine are strange with it being so large giving them alot larger range to hit me and still me not as large. Another one which is my main concern sense I play on PvP is the effectiveness there? Will you make the root wear off quicker? If so give me back my dot then. Or what about the range in PvP? Melee range has been increased this means I have to back up further to get out of range of fighters. 4 seconds is just not enough time to do alot with, and the 4 seconds we have we have to be extremely quick about it, not a assortment of skills but just speed to do it. 6 seconds we can chose which is the more effect bow attack, unlike 4 seconds with each move I do has to be perfect in order for me to get just one bow CA off. 6 seconds is the perfect amount for this root, its not over powering and gives us the chance to not rapidly push buttons hoping to get off my bow attacks. 2 seconds opens alot of options without it being over powered where a ranger can unleash a flurry of spells on someone while there rooted.If not 6 seconds, then make the attack as long or longer then 20m. This means were further away and can give us the time to land our attacks from a distance and giving the mob or player still the window of opportunity to attack us after it wears along with the chance of dealing additional dmg as they rush us.</b></font><div></div>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><p>4 secs is a hell of long time if you are aggro kiting with another ranger ....both of you drop huge damage opening shots 1 gets aggro due to crit or w/e pop aggro debuff mobs taking after your buddy...root his [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] pop another big ca....you or your duo partner sheds aggro to you you get aggro he pops root anothr big ol ca.....then stun stun melee melee. Mabey a trap then another trap thats 2 more big cas. Minimal engagement lots of reward for smart play. Think smarter not harder. Roots FTW. Mabey the spoiled STREAM + Nothing has you all confused. Ya i miss it. Oh i miss it every time i go to CT and run around getting my alts all geared up. What used to be a 45 second slaughter is now a 5 min opus of melee skill</p><p> </p>

[chrno01]

<font color="FF6600"><b>Who said anything about grouping?! This was given to us for solo purposes to make up for our lack of soloing ability not duoing ability. I don't care what I can do with another ranger, hell if im with a necro or conjuror they can root and have pet tank. Your post had nothing to do with the dilema of a 4 second root you just rambled on about duoing with other rangers. 2 more seconds or longer range on the root is all I really want. This opens up all doors for us without seriously crippling mobs our pvp opponents.</b></font><div></div>

[TerriBlades]

<div></div>Im sorry, but it sounds to me like you just want zero risk involved in killing. Soloing has already been made easier with the addition of PBS, with this change in the CA to a 4 unbreakable root, that will make it even easier. Will you still get hit? Prolly. Will you require some down time after the fight? Prolly. At least TRY the changes before complaining about what you didnt get. 4 Seconds will be enough time for at least 1 CA as already stated, and that is 1 more CA then you had before.

[Kala Asuras]

- Predator: Point Blank Shot's duration is now affected by upgrades.From the test updates<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Chrystolred wrote:<font color="#ff6600"><b>So our new root is 4 seconds. Thats something....and that something would be crap. You give us a root only for it to be worthless?! What was the point. 4 seconds? I can't even pick my nose that fast w t f! How does that even help us?! Lets look at how to use it.1. Its close range so we have to be in 10m? to cast it.2. Ok the mob is now rooted go power rangers and use your zoids3. ok it droped because I was so overly syked about a root.4. its back on again.5. we back up to where the mob cant hit us (if it can hit us its pretty pointless)6. All attacks aside, we cannot use attacks that require the back or stealth because they take way to long to cast and way to long to get into position.7. So were left with a nice majority of regular bow attacks..kinda. Our double shot and triple shot are basically what were looking at for big damage. casting time 1 and 2 seconds. Now backing up is gona take at least one second. Lets say its slightly larger mob and it takes 2 seconds to back up and to STOP then cast one of those. By the time were done casting root has broken and the mob is back on us and cant root for 20 more seocnds....4 seconds means we get 1 and only 1 bow CA off thats it. You can be the 6 million dollar man and move at [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] super speed and still not get off more. Even if your casting your second bow CA your wont get it off because you didnt have enough time to back far enough up to where you had enough distance to cast more then 1. Is this a joke? 4 seconds? Hell even then if the duration of the bow CA is 1min+ you might not even get another bow CA off because its still down! The root was a really good idea but it needed AT THE VERY LEAST 2 seconds. We don't need enough time to get 2 CA off but at least give us breathing room for 1, 6 seconds ensures we get far enough away, can cast a bow CA withour fear of root breaking and then try to cast either another bow CA or be ready for root to break.</b></font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Root, snaring shot, whatever other bow CA you want to use after, what more you want ?</p><p> </p>