the fix details - pics of the spell changes

[Fennir]

<div></div>Ranger changes:- Leg Shot had its damage increased and no longer has a double chance to dispel when taking damage.- Bleeding Cut's DoT damage has increased.- Steady Aim's reuse timer has been reduced, and it now increases ranged critical hit chances.- Trick Shot had its casting time reduced and damage increased.- Rip had its damage increased.- Miracle Shot had its damage increased.- Lunge was changed from a DoT to a combination melee attack + very short duration root.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Fennir on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:51 AM</span></p>

[Fennir]

<font size="6"><font size="3">These were taken at 25 STR on test and 34 STR on live to try to get comparable screenshots.</font><b>before:<img src="http://www.improvmasta.org/eq2/beforefix.jpg">after:<img src="http://www.improvmasta.org/eq2/afterfix.jpg"></b></font><div></div>

[TwistedFaith]

Wow really disapointed that triple fire didnt get a boost, thats out bread and butter spell and well it looks pretty pathetic at 70 <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><p>Message Edited by valleyboy1 on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:07 AM</span></p>

[Melax]

<div></div>duration 4 seconds

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Melaxus wrote:<div></div>duration 4 seconds<hr></blockquote>2 ranged attacks in 4 seconds?

[Radgen]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:<blockquote><hr>Melaxus wrote:<div></div>duration 4 seconds<hr></blockquote>2 ranged attacks in 4 seconds?<hr></blockquote>Sure, if you pick the right ones.  They never said we would be able to get off ANY 2 CA's

[Azzazal]

I cant see this as a vast improvement to get us into decent dps again, Has any test ranger parsed this? Not impressed.Perhaps if a dev actually bothed to play a ranger at all levels instead of [Removed for Content] around PVP balancing we may get our true proc status back.Azzarangering since Kunark in eq1."not buying an 8 patch "omg we left in procs by mistake""<div></div>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Azzazal wrote:I cant see this as a vast improvement to get us into decent dps again, Has any test ranger parsed this? Not impressed.Perhaps if a dev actually bothed to play a ranger at all levels instead of [Removed for Content] around PVP balancing we may get our true proc status back.Azzarangering since Kunark in eq1."not buying an 8 patch "omg we left in procs by mistake""<div></div><hr></blockquote>I tend to agree, the two skills that ranger use the most are imho precise shot and triple shot, both of which are vastly underpowered at lvl 70 in comparison to the other t1 classes.Check out the lvl 65 fusion spell that wizzys get, and then look at Rain of Arrows. It's the same with Ice Nova when you compare it to Triple Volley, the base damage simply isnt there. We can play around with stuns, roots, everything but at the end of the day if the base damage of our main attacks arnt upto speed then we will be lagging behind.

[Stigch]

<div></div><p>you're not seeing the bigger picture. It's actually quite brilliant. These changes will defenitely not put us back where we were, but they will make us just that tiny bit more effective. Not alot, but just enough. The added root ability is a small blessing. Now you can fire off your ranged, let the mob get to you, step in, lunge and if it isn't dead yet, you can stand back and let a few more ranged ca's rip. it will take a little practise, but thats'ok.</p><p>Now, combine this with the rather exciting achievement options you get in the agility and intelligence lines and the ranger is well on the way to becoming the god of damage again.</p><p>Now that the bigger plan is becoming more and more appearant. Nerfzilla doesn't seem all that bad anymore. Here's hoping it turns out the way I think it will.</p>

[ReynardTheFox]

These changes are a waste of time, like a lot of what the EQ2 dev team do.<div></div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><p>I am diappointed that Triple shot line didnt get an increase.  However, these may not been all the changes that are going to take place.  These just may be what they have changed so far.  4 Second root isnt that great I wish it was 6 seconds (Also, notice its a 4 second root every 20 seconds).  I like the increased critical chance on the steady aim thats a fantastic change IMHO.</p><p>I hope they up the damage of ALL our CA's and not just the ones Fennir has posted.  This is a great start please don't stop with just this.</p>

[Teksun]

If you got off all your snares while the MoB was closing, those four seconds can give you a LOT of room to play in...<div></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><p>So, what do you think Fennir?  Did you play these changes on test?  </p><p>We need a ranger test guy posting his/her thoughts on ranger changes as they happen on test. That way we can be aware of them...</p><p>Curious about first hand thoughts on these...</p>

[Shaulin Dolamite]

<div></div>Sure hope there is more to come : (  First off thought the minimum was a 6 sec root. In total DPS gained these changes wont even show im suspecting.

[TaleraRis]

<div>4 seconds, [Removed for Content].</div><div> </div><div>Considering we have to be in melee range for that to go off, unless we're in the sweet spot when that happens (which won't be happening while soloing) we'll have to backpedal at least a couple of steps to get a ranged attack off. They don't seem to be taking that into consideration at all.</div>

[Sirlutt]

underwhelmed is the word i am looking for here i think.nice to get something, but I was expecting a little more.<div></div>

[Fennir]

ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div>

[Teksun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote>/[Removed for Content] I agree with ya...</span><div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Agreed, you guys are whining way to much, these changes are awesome, Don't forget the 33% Boost to bow DPS.</p><p>You guys need to stop thinking we will be uber gods and start being more reasonable.</p>

[Fennir]

i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><p>Have you played this Fennir?  I would imagine so, having the screenies...</p><p>So, after playing the changes you like them?  If so, thats great...</p><p>Saihung</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.

[hieronym]

<div>still dubious if this will really make that much difference. Id like to see if these changes add another 400DPS that im losing out to a guild assassin when we raided courts last night.</div>

[Fennir]

I didn't play with the changes.  I have a lvl 6 bearded female dwarf that I used to link master spells from the itemdb with.   Then I took off all my armor on Live and linked the same masters.I also checked out the damage rating on imbued ironwood (62.1, the exact increase we were told), and the new stats on xegonite melodic (16 str 16 agi 15 int 134/268/268/134 to 4 resists and +1 disruption).I don't need to play with the changes to know they're exactly what we need.  My other skills are fine and I still use them to great success.  The ones being changed are the exact skills that I've always felt were too lackluster and could use a boost. Add up all those changes and we are looking at the DPS fix we need.  Anything more would be overkill.<div></div>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>hieronymus wrote:<div>still dubious if this will really make that much difference. Id like to see if these changes add another 400DPS that im losing out to a guild assassin when we raided courts last night.</div><hr></blockquote>Sorry Hieronymus. I can't say this has been my experience. The assassin I grouped with in Courts Sunday was doing around the same DPS I was. Sometimes I was up. Sometimes he was. The best DPS he ever did over me was 100. We were both sitting around 500dps. How much is this about equipment I wonder?I was killing solo yellow ^ last night on Isle of Awakening last night. I planned carefully what I was going to do and did it. I died a few times but that's normal. I wouldn't mind squeezing a little more DPS out, but I don't understand the posts about not being able to kill yellow or even blue for that matter. I have some nice equipment for sure, but I don't know that it's better than other Ranger's at my level. I don't compare. I do know that my experiences do not synch with 70% of the posters to these boards though. I'd love to figure out why.

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>I was under the impression that the agility line AA skill involving critical attacks ONLY work with auto attack not with combat attacks?

[Yrield]

<span><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>So 5 criticals, 2 CAs500 + 800 + 1300 + 650 + 650 = 3900if you are lucky you get 2 criticals quick shot for 600once a year you get 2 criticals poison over that 2x600for a grand total of 6300 damage every 63.5 sec or 99.2 dps (every 93.5 sec if you wait for Focus Fire -- 67.3 dps)/shrug, every step forward are a fix right now, gonna have to wait and see how these changes really affect us in game.Im still suprised to see no change -at all- on Triple Volley and Precise Shot, but oh well... wait and see.... wait and see...</span><div></div>

[Fennir]

no, combat arts crit just the same as autoattack.<div></div>

[Yrield]

<span><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>I was under the impression that the agility line AA skill involving critical attacks ONLY work with auto attack not with combat attacks?<hr></blockquote>Ranged expertise affect ranged auto attacks and CAs</span><div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Yrieldom wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>So 5 criticals, 2 CAs500 + 800 + 1300 + 650 + 650 = 3900if you are lucky you get 2 criticals quick shot for 600once a year you get 2 criticals poison over that 2x600for a grand total of 6300 damage every 63.5 sec or 99.2 dps (every 93.5 sec if you wait for Focus Fire -- 67.3 dps)/shrug, every step forward are a fix right now, gonna have to wait and see how these changes really affect us in game.Im still suprised to see no change -at all- on Triple Volley and Precise Shot, but oh well... wait and see.... wait and see...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well sure if you only use those 2 abilities, but who uses two skills and just stands there?</p><p>I can tell from looking at these changes that they are going to help a ton, no amount of theoryquest is going to convince the naysayers though so we will just have to wait and see.</p><p> </p><p>All I ask is people give them a chance and not start complaining even before they go live.</p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:I didn't play with the changes.  I have a lvl 6 bearded female dwarf that I used to link master spells from the itemdb with.   Then I took off all my armor on Live and linked the same masters.I also checked out the damage rating on imbued ironwood (62.1, the exact increase we were told), and the new stats on xegonite melodic (16 str 16 agi 15 int 134/268/268/134 to 4 resists and +1 disruption).I don't need to play with the changes to know they're exactly what we need.  My other skills are fine and I still use them to great success.  The ones being changed are the exact skills that I've always felt were too lackluster and could use a boost. Add up all those changes and we are looking at the DPS fix we need.  Anything more would be overkill.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks Fennir, sounds good.  I cant wait till they go live...I will actually look forward to logging in that day...</p><p>Be carefull though...you are encouraging me to be enthusiastic about this <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I may be just that if any rangers from test post on here about their experience with the changes...but one question...how come I have not seen these on the test update notes?</p><p>Sai</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>I was under the impression that the agility line AA skill involving critical attacks ONLY work with auto attack not with combat attacks?<hr></blockquote>That's an Old wive's tale and I'm not sure where it originated, +Crit Helps CA and Ranged.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:I didn't play with the changes.  I have a lvl 6 bearded female dwarf that I used to link master spells from the itemdb with.   Then I took off all my armor on Live and linked the same masters.I also checked out the damage rating on imbued ironwood (62.1, the exact increase we were told), and the new stats on xegonite melodic (16 str 16 agi 15 int 134/268/268/134 to 4 resists and +1 disruption).I don't need to play with the changes to know they're exactly what we need.  My other skills are fine and I still use them to great success.  The ones being changed are the exact skills that I've always felt were too lackluster and could use a boost. Add up all those changes and we are looking at the DPS fix we need.  Anything more would be overkill.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks Fennir, sounds good.  I cant wait till they go live...I will actually look forward to logging in that day...</p><p>Be carefull though...you are encouraging me to be enthusiastic about this <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I may be just that if any rangers from test post on here about their experience with the changes...but one question...how come I have not seen these on the test update notes?</p><p>Sai</p><hr></blockquote><p>They're on the patcher, they just haven't been posted onto the forums. They don't always post minor updates to test server on the forums.</p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html">http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html</a></p><p>And FYI Summoners got a damage decrease as well.</p><p>Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 AM</span></p>

[Bayler_x]

I'm impressed!  These changes look great.For those who think the root is too shot, consider a few things:1. Unless the range has changed, we can cast Lunging Blade from considerably further out than melee range.2. It has a 20 second recast time.3. It has a near-instant cast time.While changes to Triple Shot and Hidden Shot would have given us more impressive single hits, these changes will let us do more damage over all.  Leg Shot has a really quick recast time - any extra damage there adds up.  Same with Trick Arrow and its new recast delay.  And Miracle Arrow looks like it's doing some serious damage now.6 seconds would have been nice for the root.  But honestly, this is more than I expected.<div></div>

[dubbs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote>They're on the patcher, they just haven't been posted onto the forums. They don't always post minor updates to test server on the forums.</blockquote><p><a target="_blank" href="http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html">http://patch.everquest2.com:7010/patch/eq2/motd/en/updates_test.html</a></p><p>And FYI Summoners got a damage decrease as well.</p><p>Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:32 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>lol, I can imagine why they didn't post that update to the forums, every conjuror would be screaming their bloody heads off.

[Yrield]

<span><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Yrieldom wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:i mean COME ON WE ARE GOING TO GET A 50/50 SHOT TO CRIT SNIPER'S SHOT AND STEALTHY FIRE EVERY CASTahahahha this is gonna be great<div></div><hr></blockquote>Yup, and with Maxed Rank 4 Agility and Focus Fire up, Our crit chance is going to be sick. Imagine dropping a Triple Arrow, Blazing Shot Combo. Where each arrow has a 75% chance to crit.<hr></blockquote>So 5 criticals, 2 CAs500 + 800 + 1300 + 650 + 650 = 3900if you are lucky you get 2 criticals quick shot for 600once a year you get 2 criticals poison over that 2x600for a grand total of 6300 damage every 63.5 sec or 99.2 dps (every 93.5 sec if you wait for Focus Fire -- 67.3 dps)/shrug, every step forward are a fix right now, gonna have to wait and see how these changes really affect us in game.Im still suprised to see no change -at all- on Triple Volley and Precise Shot, but oh well... wait and see.... wait and see...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Well sure if you only use those 2 abilities, but who uses two skills and just stands there?</p><p>I can tell from looking at these changes that they are going to help a ton, no amount of theoryquest is going to convince the naysayers though so we will just have to wait and see.</p><p> </p><p>All I ask is people give them a chance and not start complaining even before they go live.</p><hr></blockquote>I should have been more clear on that, my point here is:Triple Arrows and Precise shot both use a multiple "to hit roll", using the current game mechanic its alot more rewarding and reliable to use CAs with a single "to hit roll" like Amazing shot (hit or miss) rather than Triple arrows -miss-miss-miss- -hit-miss-miss- -hit-hit-miss- -hit-hit-hit-Using EQ2IDB for the damage at master1 for tripe arrows:miss-miss-miss: 0hit-miss-miss: 154-256hit-hit-miss: 154-256 308-513 == 462-769hit-hit-hit: 154-256 308-513 462-770 ==  924-1539Getting one bad roll on triple arrow is very punishing, and getting 3 good roll is not really rewarding...triple arrow = 152-1539  VS Amazing Shot (revamped) = 655-1092power cost: TA=115 vs AS=82Triple arrows was really good before (we all know it) because of the 3 chances to proc poison, the 3 chances to proc quick shot and the 3 chances to proc poison on quick shot. Im sure SOE can find a middle ground between the pre-lu20 overpowered triple arrows and the post-lu20 underpowered triple arrows... They can increase the raws damage of the CA or just change the way the CA work to something like a 3 chances to hit, ex:current version (3 chances TO MISS):miss-miss-misshit-miss-misshit-hit-misshit-hit-hit3 chances TO HIT version:miss-miss-missmiss-hit-missmiss-hit-hitmiss-miss-hithit-miss-misshit-miss-hithit-hit-misshit-hit-hit</span><div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>Rather than think of it in terms of how many shots can one get off in a 4 second window might it not be better to think of it in terms of running to max range and then delivering your shots on a snared mob closing on you?... I'm really not sure, I don't have the experience to know. It would seem that if you can land 2 CAs on a 67% snared mob from max range.</p><p>Again, I don't know; I'm just floating the idea.</p>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div>I agree with Fennir.  I think if you add all these changes to the CAs along with the 33% boost to the damage output of our bow and we will be right where we need to be.  I can't wait for that Focus Fire spell.  That will deffinately become a staple for me.</div>

[BSbon]

<div></div><p>they put the root on one of our CAs that does damage? if root works the same as it did in EQ1 this is going to be bad in groups. rooting a mob in EQ1 changed the hate priority from whoever had the most hate to whoever was the closest. this would get people killed all the time and rooting was often banned in raids. adding root to a damage CA will reduce my group DPS as i will never use that in a group. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>bongo</p>

[Fennir]

i don't think it works like that in this game<div></div>

[DarkLegacy2005]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div><p>they put the root on one of our CAs that does damage? if root works the same as it did in EQ1 this is going to be bad in groups. rooting a mob in EQ1 changed the hate priority from whoever had the most hate to whoever was the closest. this would get people killed all the time and rooting was often banned in raids. adding root to a damage CA will reduce my group DPS as i will never use that in a group. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>bongo</p><hr></blockquote>If you never are the MT shouldnt you just be able to sit pretty at ~20m and shoot off all your ranged CA's, come close for some melee CA's, back out, rinse and repeat? No need for the root?

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:<blockquote><hr>Azzazal wrote:I cant see this as a vast improvement to get us into decent dps again, Has any test ranger parsed this? Not impressed.Perhaps if a dev actually bothed to play a ranger at all levels instead of [Removed for Content] around PVP balancing we may get our true proc status back.Azzarangering since Kunark in eq1."not buying an 8 patch "omg we left in procs by mistake""<div></div><hr></blockquote>I tend to agree, the two skills that ranger use the most are imho precise shot and triple shot, both of which are vastly underpowered at lvl 70 in comparison to the other t1 classes.<font color="#ffff00">Check out the lvl 65 fusion spell that wizzys get, and then look at Rain of Arrows. It's the same with Ice Nova when you compare it to Triple Volley, the base damage simply isnt there. We can play around with stuns, roots, everything but at the end of the day if the base damage of our main attacks arnt upto speed then we will be lagging behind</font>.<hr></blockquote>fyi your trying to compare apples to oranges.  It would be illogical to compare 2 spells from two different subclasses directly against each other.  The only semi fair way to compare is with a classes dps.  which takes a bigger slice of the overal damage dealt.

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Sounds like the devs are finally on the right path for you guys which i'm glad to hear *yeah an assassin so what*.  That focus fire is ridiculous though my god, at adept 3 my murderous focus level 58 i think spell is only around 52% dps increase thats insane, and on a 5 minute reuse timer not 1 minute.  Now i have something to [Removed for Content] at the devs about.

[Sirlutt]

how long does it last though ?<div></div>

[Fennir]

murderous focus is the equivalent of our brutal instinct, which is also on a 5 minute timer<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>Sounds like the devs are finally on the right path for you guys which i'm glad to hear *yeah an assassin so what*.  That focus fire is ridiculous though my god, at adept 3 my murderous focus level 58 i think spell is only around 52% dps increase thats insane, and on a 5 minute reuse timer not 1 minute.  Now i have something to [Removed for Content] at the devs about.<hr></blockquote>Note it only lasts 10 Seconds, and with a 7 Second Delay bow, you gain maybe 1-2 Shots worth of benefit. Whereas withthe 36second Assasin spell combined with dual wielding auto attack (1.2sec delay) you get considerablly more use from it.

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>/agree.</p><p>Some people won't be happy until they get a god mode button....</p><p> </p>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>Sounds like the devs are finally on the right path for you guys which i'm glad to hear *yeah an assassin so what*.  That focus fire is ridiculous though my god, at adept 3 my murderous focus level 58 i think spell is only around 52% dps increase thats insane, and on a 5 minute reuse timer not 1 minute.  Now i have something to [Removed for Content] at the devs about.<hr></blockquote>Note it only lasts 10 Seconds, and with a 7 Second Delay bow, you gain maybe 1-2 Shots worth of benefit. Whereas withthe 36second Assasin spell combined with dual wielding auto attack (1.2sec delay) you get considerablly more use from it.<hr></blockquote><p>Yeah well ranged critical works on arts too...</p><p>Focus fire + triple shot or</p><p>Focus Fire + sniping shot is gonna be murder....</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>Sounds like the devs are finally on the right path for you guys which i'm glad to hear *yeah an assassin so what*.  That focus fire is ridiculous though my god, at adept 3 my murderous focus level 58 i think spell is only around 52% dps increase thats insane, and on a 5 minute reuse timer not 1 minute.  Now i have something to [Removed for Content] at the devs about.<hr></blockquote>Note it only lasts 10 Seconds, and with a 7 Second Delay bow, you gain maybe 1-2 Shots worth of benefit. Whereas withthe 36second Assasin spell combined with dual wielding auto attack (1.2sec delay) you get considerablly more use from it.<hr></blockquote><p>Yeah well ranged critical works on arts too...</p><p>Focus fire + triple shot or</p><p>Focus Fire + sniping shot is gonna be murder....</p><hr></blockquote>I'm already making the macro:smileytongue:

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Ah my bad, its the only short duration dps increaser assassins get you guys get 2?

[Fennir]

we share honed reflexes (bloodlines) which is on the same 5m recast 36s duration as our instinct lineso we have 3 when all is said and done.  if you guys are lagging behind us after the fix i'd say you deserve a similar 10s duration 60s recast 50% melee crit buff.  it's a very nice idea and a great way to improve an almost useless skill (which is why i bet assassins never noticed we had it before).<div></div>

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>I agree especially if from what i'm hearing from other posts in this forum, if rangers right now are only lagging by 100 dps behind an assassin with at the same level being broke as you are, as soon as these fixes go in i expect that rangers will surpass us on the dps charts but who knows what the margin will be.  I don't care if its a 100-200 dps difference between the 2 predator classes but if its higher i'm gonna ......play my templar /sigh.  Kidding!! I'm never that bored.

[syncline]

<div></div><div>Cool... Good to see SOME inproving!    Sure sure 4 seconds but its 20 seconds recast..  So just kite out this along with the stun.    Root...  ranged attack .. stun..  ranged attack.. Root...  ranged attack .. stun..  ranged attack</div><div>Should work well.. Gotta make focus fire so instead of 10 seconds its ONE shot or something.  So you have plenty of time to get the head shot in  (sniper shot).</div><div> </div><div>Just my 2 copper</div>

[TwistedFaith]

Ok so Focus Fire + Agility Critical AA + Faster cast timer AA = 10 secs of POWA!Crank up Triple Fire and I think we'll be very happy.<p>Message Edited by valleyboy1 on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 PM</span></p>

[syncline]

<div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:Ok so Focus Fire + Agility Critical AA + Faster cast timer AA = 10 secs of POWA!Crank up Triple Fire and I think we'll be very happy.<p>Message Edited by valleyboy1 on <span class="date_text">03-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:37 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ohhhhhh... wait... Focus Fire + Agi crit hit aa lvl8 + Honed Reflexes (i think it is) + sniper shot = HEAD SHOT!</div><div>G-G-G-G-G-GOD LIKE!</div><div> </div><div>lol   :manvery-happy:</div>

[hieronym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>I agree especially if from what i'm hearing from other posts in this forum, if rangers right now are only lagging by 100 dps behind an assassin with at the same level<hr></blockquote>try 400-500. During raiding courts last night the assassin was doing 1000-1100 consistantly every fight where the rangers were doing around 600. Now thats quite a big difference. Buts lets wait and see if a 4 second stun will help us bridge that huge gap.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div>Remember these changes aren't live yet and if you guys keep throwing around phrases like "God Like" they will never make it there.

[Xev]

Sound like good changes.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Wouldn't mind seeing a few more improvements made and/or the cost of arrows going down, but this is definitely going to help a lot.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Writer Cal]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Agreed, you guys are whining way to much, these changes are awesome, Don't forget the 33% Boost to bow DPS.</p><p>You guys need to stop thinking we will be uber gods and start being more reasonable.</p><hr></blockquote>Agreed on both.  These changes sound like exactly what we need.  I look forward to them hitting the live servers!

[syncline]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div>Remember these changes aren't live yet and if you guys keep throwing around phrases like "God Like" they will never make it there.<hr></blockquote>aw man... there not?..  well.. [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] these changing are the suck... O_O

[Evolution8]

These changes look perfect. Grizzfazzle bow should be around 107 damage rating so ranger bow melee will go up significantly. Focus aim is such a beautiful spell thats always over looked. I have focus aim m1 and that combined with whatever haste we get from group and honed reflexes killer instinct its possible to get 4 melee arrows off that hit for very nice numbers. At 68 using grizzfazzle and new summoned arrows i hit for 1200-1900 non crit. Thats only 80.9 rating.Just need them to make our reclaimed arrows (adamantite) lvl 60 rather then 50 <span>:smileymad:</span>Yea at raids the other night our assasin was doing around 1100 on non ae'ing mobs where i would max out at 800 or so. But throw an ae in and they drop to 600.Just wait to see how these work out, if they arent enough im sure you will all come back here and nag till they upgrade more, so no worries.<div></div>

[Balerius]

<div></div><p>Personally, I don't share the enthusiasm that some of you for these changes nor do I believe they will even come close to balancing us with respect to assassins.</p><p>These changes appear to be focused almost exclusively at the soloing ranger.  I see nothing in them that will materially change our dps in groups and especially raids when compared to our assassin bretheren.  The difference in dps between rangers and assassins on raids is currently huge.  Generally on raids the assassins out-dps rangers by between 50% and 100%.  It isn't even close.  Looking at these "fixes", that isn't going to change much.  In fact, unless something changes significantly, the amount by which assassins out-dps rangers will continue to grow with every addidtional AA that assassins get.</p><p>Now don't get me wrong, for those rangers who like to solo, I'm happy for you.  But I sure hope that there is more to come in the way of changes to our CAs that is going to make up for the current gross disparity in dps between rangers and assassins.</p>

[Evolution8]

What raids are you doing where your assasin is 100% more dps then you.The only change thats being made that really applies more to soloing is the root.<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>While these changes are nice for solo I personally don't think they're going to get you even close to an Assassin in raid or group. We'll have to wait and see I suppose. There's fundamental problems with Ranger dps in best case situations, and I don't see anything fundamental being changed here.</p><p>I was expecting to hear your CAs had been raised by 15% across the board or something; which is what I think is missing. I think you're t2 at the moment... no you aren't t3, a crap ranger puts out crap damage in the same way a crap Rogue does.... and I figure that warrants a 15% boost at least. Actually I think it should be more like 20% across the board.</p><p>*shrug* The changes may prove things different, and there may well be more changes to come, this may be the first batch. I still think we're looking at a butt load of Rangers betraying to Assassin first chance they get.</p>

[Garlicyesterday]

<div>the aim line spell change is awesome guys , 48% chance to crit is a lot , yes 10seconds is not long but recast only 1min</div><div> </div><div>add that 48% chance to your aa , your guaranteed to crit or almost , hell at rank4 ranged crit atm , i land criticals pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] often , every 2-3shots ...</div><div> </div><div>Come on lets land a critical sniper with that buff on :smileyvery-happy: , highest is 10k crit on sniper atm , cant wait to test)</div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Carnagh you're right and we'll have to wait and see.  The one part that doesn't show in the changes listed here is the increase in ranged auto attack damage.  They said that was being increase about 33% which will add to these changes also.  Especially if they fix arrows to the appropriate teirs.</p><p>Right now Adamantine and Indium arrows do the same damage since both are listed as L50 ammo and grey out at L65.  Fixing Adamantine arrows to be L60 ammo like they should be will increase their damage and help also.</p><p> </p>

[Avendelf]

<div></div>From what I've been experiencing, my raid DPS isnt the issue I still do good damage (not as good as the conj's now though!) but I am satisified with that, and these new changes look like they will help soloing the most, with some added damage for groups and raids.  Soloing was the area I was having a big problem, so with the dmg + root and the increased damage overall, I really get a good feeling that these changes will allow me to solo with my bow regularly now against somewhat decent mobs...we will see when it goes live but I am really optimistic at this point.

[Balerius]

<div></div><p>Look at the damage on assassin CAs.</p><p>Look at the cast time on their CAs.</p><p>Look at the recast timers on their CAs.</p><p>Consider that assassins get the same AAs that we get.</p><p>Then try to tell me that a 33% increase to bow autoattack damage and a change to a 10 second buff will make up the difference.</p>

[Kai'va Arros]

<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:ahahahahahthe devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute, doubled the damage on one skill, upped damage on 4 or 5 others, added a root, eliminated half the break chance on our snare shot, and lowered the cast time on another attack.less than a month after they broke us no lessand all i hear is disappointment and cries for more?you guys are lame, sorry.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Agreed, you guys are whining way to much, these changes are awesome, Don't forget the 33% Boost to bow DPS.</p><p>You guys need to stop thinking we will be uber gods and start being more reasonable.</p><hr></blockquote>Couldn't agree more. I don't need to be a 'DPS God' I just want to be viable again. Looking forward to these changes. Thanks for the updates Fennir.

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]? our big bomb is on a 15 minute timer for 7k with good strength buffs, even with concealment we have to wait for our bigger back stabs to be up to be used on a 7 second timer with max damage of 900 per hit round about on a successful hit, so without assassinate being up, we might be able to do around 3-4k damage 5k if our other big hit is up every i think 60 seconds, plus we have to wait on the recast timers of these back hits combined with waiting for concealment to be up.  Everything i'm seeing is going to raise the ranger up above assassins when we should be compareable, i guess i'll wait another 7 updates before they realize there's 2 predator classes.

[dubbs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]? our big bomb is on a 15 minute timer for 7k with good strength buffs, even with concealment we have to wait for our bigger back stabs to be up to be used on a 7 second timer with max damage of 900 per hit round about on a successful hit, so without assassinate being up, we might be able to do around 3-4k damage 5k if our other big hit is up every i think 60 seconds, plus we have to wait on the recast timers of these back hits combined with waiting for concealment to be up.  Everything i'm seeing is going to raise the ranger up above assassins when we should be compareable, i guess i'll wait another 7 updates before they realize there's 2 predator classes.<hr></blockquote><p>Let me get this right, you are crying for a fix to correct a problem that isn't even present?  A little premature don't you think?</p><p>And our Sniper Shot is on a 15 min timer, just like your Assassinate.  Oh and guess what, Sniper's doesn't get upgraded, like Assassinate does, ever.  And for alot of Assassins it is a perfectly viable option to take the STR AA line, thereby reducing it to a 7.5 min recast.</p><p>You crying that we are overpowered, when Assassins are currently doing more dps just makes you look foolish.</p>

[hieronym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>Far as i can see you guys have shorter recast timers on your big bombs, if you have a chance to hit a crit for 10k every 60 seconds [Removed for Content]?<hr></blockquote>10k every 60 seconds? i wish. unless they changed sniper fire from the long recast time but i very much doubt that.

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div><p>This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. </p><p>On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.</p>

[SwissArmySh]

<div></div><p>Anyone know if the dam increase/recast changes are for all the CA's in the lines or just the CA's that where stated?</p><p>My Ranger is only lvl 26 atm and it would be nice to know I will be getting some love :smileytongue:</p>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div><p>This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. </p><p>On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.</p><hr></blockquote>you  do now .. i wouldnt bother with that ..i can do more than 10K damage in 7.5 min with other AA's i am sure... worry about how these changes ballance out with Asassins when they are actually live.Sony collects a vast amount of data, they noted from that data that Ranger CA's arent up there with Assassin CA's.  They made a few tweaks.  I would expect the few tweaks were calculated to put the Ranger numbers in the same area as assassin numbers.. and probably compared a little to the other T1 DPS classes.. they have the real correct data and know how much needs to be changed.</span></div>

[Karvar]

<div></div><div></div><div><p><span>to me this looks like a first step .....</span><span></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>I am not supper impressed with the changes, but to me it looks like the dev are looking at a slow inch the class up staged approch... </span><span></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>more of a lets do these things ... wait watch ... add a little more ... little more ... ok there we are ... they back in T1 ....</span><span></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>that is what i get out of this .. it is a first step in a series so that they do not go over the top again in one jump ... but approach the target slowly and carefully  ... you know they got to be tired this also and just want to get it fixed once and for all so they can move on to other things...</span><span></span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>So i suggest we say thank you for the changes ... we will work with them ... provide feedback to the dev so they can do the next round in this process to get us back to Tier 1</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>Karvar Blackhawk</span></p><p><span></span> </p><p><span>65 ranger </span></p><p><span><font color="#000000"></font></span> </p></div><div> </div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Karvar on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:42 AM</span></p>

[dubbs]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div><p>This is the proposed fix not the way your broke azz is now, i didnt say you were overpowered now, now that this is clear...why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable?  Not going to defend my position as far as what rangers are now, only to say i dont agree with what they did, if thats claiming your overpowered atm, then you're the fool. </p><p>On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.</p><hr></blockquote><p>This is indeed NOT the proposed change, please do a little reasearch before you make assumptions.  The Focus Fire line (a 10 sec attack buff) is having its re-use timer reduced from 5 mins to 1 min.  That is the what's changing.  And yes, the final AA ability of the STR line allows any CA with a 2 min or greater reuse timer to be reduced by 50% while increasing the damage by 10%.  The problem here is that every other ability in the line is specifically suited for melee combat (read Assassin) as opposed to ranged (Ranger).</p><p>As for being comparable between predator classes, currently you have the slight edge, and these minor changes are hopefully designed to level things out.  You are already crying that Rangers are going to be far and away superior to Assassins.</p><p>Message Edited by dubbs on <span class="date_text">03-08-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:32 AM</span></p>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div><p>why shouldn't i ask for both the predator classes to be compareable? </p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>A.  The tweaks being made to Rangers are designed to make both classes comparable.</p><p>B.  This is the wrong forum to discuss Assassin issues.</p>

[Racmo]

<div></div><p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.</p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>I'm not.  Guess you don't know as much about rangers as you think.</p><p>Tobi</p><p>50 Ranger</p>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div>Oh I'm grateful for these changes. I just would have hoped for a couple more seconds on the root.

[Teksun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div></div><p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p>On the other hand here's a question, if the recast timer for assassinate can be lowered to 7.5 minutes, is this also true for sniper shot?  If so ....well.....then ..... i don't know of any ranger that's not going to jump for that.</p><p>----------------------------------------------------------------</p><p> </p><p>I'm not.  Guess you don't know as much about rangers as you think.</p><p>Tobi</p><p>50 Ranger</p><hr></blockquote>Me either...any other general assumptions?</span><div></div>

[chanaho]

<span><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:<div><span>Sony collects a vast amount of data, they noted from that data that Ranger CA's arent up there with Assassin CA's.  They made a few tweaks.  I would expect the few tweaks were calculated to put the Ranger numbers in the same area as assassin numbers.. and probably compared a little to the other T1 DPS classes.. they have the real correct data and know how much needs to be changed.</span></div><hr></blockquote>  I just hope its not the same data they used pre lu20   <span>:smileyvery-happy:</span></span><div></div>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Evolution890 wrote:What raids are you doing where your assasin is 100% more dps then you.The only change thats being made that really applies more to soloing is the root.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You didn't quote so I don't know who this is directed to. However, I posted and I believe Fennir was quoting that an Assassin in our guild is DPSING 100 more than me... not percent. 100 points. At times, I was doing better than him. At times, he was doing better than me.The downside to it is that I was looking at this level. He's a 61 assassin and I noted this in Courts when I was 63. So yes, they are posting higher numbers than we are, but it's so subjective. His armor. My armor. Quality of spells.. levels and now which AA's were taken. All of this is factors in the DPS we do. It is really hard to compare classes by parses.

[tooner2]

<div></div>Still a bit confused on this topic though I guess that is par since I am a confused Ranger (Dark Elf :smileywink<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />. Are these changes set for LU 21 or are they going to be activated sooner?

[Jay]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the update, Tobias. Good to see some information on these.</p><p>I'd hoped for more than 4 seconds but it's better than nothing. Very glad to see the boost to crit chance on Focus Fire, it'll actually be a worthwhile buff now. Still wish it lasted a bit longer than 10 seconds but oh well.</p><p>Those of you extrapolating your own experience into "all rangers have X problem in Y situation" need to check yourselves. Just b/c you're having a problem doesn't mean the class is broken.</p><p>Soloing should be easier, that's great to see. Damage will be coming up a bit, also nice. I'll wait to assess the results live before I can comment much further. But suffice to say, there are too many ppl here who want the whole world and won't ever be content with only useful fixes to our CAs and a boost to our overall damage.</p>

[Stormhawk]

I'm just glad we can move Focus Fire from "The most worthless skill in existance" to the "Use during normal combat" column.  The damage boosts will be what I was personally looking for and the root is just icing on the cake.  ( I don't have problems soloing )  Though I'd still like to see the auto-attack numbers for the new bow ratios.Overall good stuff here, kudos to the devs for the fast turn around on this situation.  It could have been far worse.

[strider19]

I'm very disappointed in these changes.  I don't know why some people are happy about them.  The overall effect is not much, our dps is very slightly increased (I foresee monks/bruisers easily outdpsing us, maybe even zerkers and furys).  I don't think our root will be effective.  At 4 seconds it's just enough to get off one CA (definately not 2) and if we are to succesfully get that one CA off we will most likely still be in range to get attacked by melee weapons. *sigh* failed attempt by the devs imo, we not only need a dps improvement, but we need a way to use our bows more than just 5% of the time when we aren't in groups.If a mage can cast from anywhere, if other scouts can use their highest dps abilities at all times, why can't we?Not even gonna mention where we stand on dps against some fighter classes<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[z3oslo]

<div><p></p><hr>the devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute<hr><p></p><p>You are way off.</p><p>It increases the crit chance by 48% So if you have 1% chance to crit, this will boost our chance to 1.48%</p></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>z3oslo wrote:<div><p></p><hr>the devs are giving us a 48% chance to crit for 10 seconds every minute<hr><p></p><p>You are way off.</p><p>It increases the crit chance by 48% So if you have 1% chance to crit, this will boost our chance to 1.48%</p><hr></div></blockquote><div>hmm. well, it's not that clear. it can mean either A) tune up base crit chance by 48%, which will lead to what you said (and would suck) or B) adds 48% chance to crit, which would be much preferred.</div><div>so, how is "increases ranged crit chance by 48%" to be read? any devs that could clear this up? or rangers on test?</div><div> </div><div>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</div>

[z3oslo]

<div></div><p>It will add to the base prosent to crit, which is very low. Base chance is probably only 2% or so, though i havent checked.</p><p>This is how i read it. Its not like we will get nearly 100% chance to crit with the aa line. No way.</p>

[Telaris]

<div></div><p>I am not sure where you got your math but adding percentages is quite simple:</p><p>If the original Percentage is 2% to crit that is the same as 2 per 100 swings chance or 2/100 (fraction)</p><p>If you add 48% to that number you can add them as fraction or decimals so you get 2/100 +48/100 = 50/100 or 0.02 +0.48 = 0.50 or 50%</p><p>Bascially you will have the same odds as flipping a coin.  Statisically speaking you have 50% chance to get head and 50% chance to get tails over the long haul.</p><p> </p><p>I personally would love to have 50% chance to critical with sniper shot every time i popped it off.... that will be sweet.</p><p> </p><p>Level 65 Ranger GUK</p>

[z3oslo]

<div></div><div></div><p>Sorry, that is not how this works.</p><p>The formula will be this:</p><p>Base chance to crit x 48%, o if the base chance is 1% the crit chance will be 1.48% and if the base chance is 2% the crit chance would be 2.96%</p><p>You do not add  percentages. If you just add them, we would get over 100% chance to crit including the increase we get from the aa line.</p><p>You use the base chance as the mulitplier.</p><p>Message Edited by z3oslo on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:17 AM</span></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div>edit: double post devil has striked...</div><div> </div><div>and: seems you've been a tad quicker posting the explanation <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=24684">z3oslo</a> :smileyvery-happy:</div><p>Message Edited by jarlaxle888 on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:18 PM</span></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><div><blockquote><hr>Telaris wrote:<div></div><p>I am not sure where you got your math but adding percentages is quite simple:</p><p>If the original Percentage is 2% to crit that is the same as 2 per 100 swings chance or 2/100 (fraction)</p><p>If you add 48% to that number you can add them as fraction or decimals so you get 2/100 +48/100 = 50/100 or 0.02 +0.48 = 0.50 or 50%</p><p>Bascially you will have the same odds as flipping a coin.  Statisically speaking you have 50% chance to get head and 50% chance to get tails over the long haul.</p><p>I personally would love to have 50% chance to critical with sniper shot every time i popped it off.... that will be sweet.</p><p>Level 65 Ranger GUK</p><hr></blockquote><p>his math does not add the percentages, he multiplies. therefore, he takes the base proc chance (which he assumes is 1%) and multiplies that with 148%. 148% of 1% is 1.48% crit chance. if base is 2% you end up with 2.96%.</p><p>it's like having something which is already 50% lower price to be lowered again by 50%. the end price isn't 0% of normal price, it's 50% of 50%, which is 25% in the end.</p><p>the line 'increases crit chance' doesn't imply it's multiplied, but neither does it imply it's added up.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p></div>

[Racmo]

<div></div><p>The way it's worded it can be interpreted either way.  HOWEVER, with the wording in the past from SoE being this way (eq1), and the wording on DISPLAYED(read run speed) % increases showed that it adds the number to the based value not multiplies, I think that there is enough evidence at this time to conclude it will most like be adding it to the base crit chance. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p>Tobi</p><p>51 Ranger</p>

[z3oslo]

<div></div><div>Yup Jarlax, that is how i think it will work. Maybe my post wasnt clear enough, english is not my naitive language.</div><div>I would be shocked i they just added the  percentages together. That would put us in God mode, as you would always have 50-100% chance to crit if you dump points in the int aa line.</div>

[Fennir]

Sorry, z3oslo, it may sound like it should work the way you think, but that would not be in-line with the way spells in EQ2 work.Read our Instinct line and our current Focus Fire line.  The open up your persona window and apply the buffs.  They are added together.  Just like this will be.Prepare to be shocked.<div></div>

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>z3oslo wrote:<div></div><div>Yup Jarlax, that is how i think it will work. Maybe my post wasnt clear enough, english is not my naitive language.</div><div>I would be shocked i they just added the  percentages together. That would put us in God mode, as you would always have 50-100% chance to crit if you dump points in the int aa line.</div><hr></blockquote>A 100% chance to crit for 10 seconds seems like a very good was to up DPS... And yes, if you look at your persona window for haste and DPS it would seem that percentages do, indeed, add.

[Deml]

<div></div><p>I think these changes are going to be great!  Can't wait for them to go live.  Focus Fire will get some much needed love, now I just have to find a more accessible spot on my hotkey bars for it so I can trigger it more often.  Already drooling over the thought of getting a crit on Sniper Shot.  These changes might make a lot of people re-evaluate which AAxp lines they take.</p><p>As for the root.  I agree that I would have liked to see a 6 second root rather than 4, but with snares and stuns combined with the root you should still be able to get away from the mob long enough to fire off a skill or two.  Root from as far away as possible, back up and you could still get off triple volley/arrow and probably leg shot before root broke, or just as it's breaking.  You won't be able to sniper shot the mob but who tries to use that mid solo fights anyway?</p>

[King Leor]

<div></div><div></div><p>Well, doesn't take a genious to tell these changes suck and wont improve us worth [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all. Real smooth sony. Only thing that may be good is increases chance to crit from focus fire, which will prolly be buggy and work worth crap when using CA's</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ([Removed for Content]) ranger</p><p>Message Edited by King Leoric on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:04 PM</span></p>

[Money Mak]

<div></div><p>Thanks for the info Tobias, great sig btw.</p><p>Im glad to see that SOMETHING is being done, but honestly, Im not all that impressed.  I do like to see the Focus Fire change, but I would like to have seen an across the board increase to all CAs.  I cant remember the last time I used Trick Arrow.  I dont solo, mostly raid/group, so the root doesnt do much for me.</p><p>Also, its great to see an increase with auto attack damage, but I use too many arrows for 35-45 every 10 min to be enough and using costly grey lvl 50 arrows will be that much more of a drop in DPS.  IMO, increasing number of makeshift arrows is a priority.</p><p>Somehow I still see rogues and brawlers out dpsing me.</p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Money Maker wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks for the info Tobias, great sig btw.</p><p>Im glad to see that SOMETHING is being done, but honestly, Im not all that impressed.  I do like to see the Focus Fire change, but I would like to have seen an across the board increase to all CAs.  I cant remember the last time I used Trick Arrow.  I dont solo, mostly raid/group, so the root doesnt do much for me.</p><p><font color="#ffff00">Also, its great to see an increase with auto attack damage, but I use too many arrows for 35-45 every 10 min to be enough and using costly grey lvl 50 arrows will be that much more of a drop in DPS.  IMO, increasing number of makeshift arrows is a priority.</font></p><p>Somehow I still see rogues and brawlers out dpsing me.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Your free summoned arrows will be grey after L65 and do no more damage then those expensive Indium arrows you have to buy.  Both are rated as L50 ammo and will do the same damage.  They do do more damage then the Fulginates which I believe are rated as L40 ammo.</p><p>Dev's really need to fix Adamantine arrows to be L60 ammo.</p><p>They also need to add them to the KoS vendors so other scouts and fighters can buy them.</p><p> </p>

[z3oslo]

<div></div><p>Fennir wrote</p><p></p><hr><p>Sorry, z3oslo, it may sound like it should work the way you think, but that would not be in-line with the way spells in EQ2 work.Read our Instinct line and our current Focus Fire line.  The open up your persona window and apply the buffs.  They are added together.  Just like this will be.Prepare to be shocked.</p><hr><p>Oh i hope i will be shocked, nothing would please me more, but can anyone verify this yet?</p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Money Maker wrote:<div></div><p>Thanks for the info Tobias, great sig btw.</p><p>Im glad to see that SOMETHING is being done, but honestly, Im not all that impressed.  I do like to see the Focus Fire change, but I would like to have seen an across the board increase to all CAs.  I cant remember the last time I used Trick Arrow.  I dont solo, mostly raid/group, so the root doesnt do much for me.</p><p>Somehow I still see rogues and brawlers out dpsing me.</p><hr></blockquote>I use every shot I have in raids and groups and still end up having to melee waiting for my shots to come back up. Why wouldn't you use your trick arrow? It's damage.I'm not seeing Rogues and Brawlers out DPSing me now.......I'd like to see a few parses please.

[Stormhawk]

<span><blockquote><hr>Money Maker wrote:<p>Im glad to see that SOMETHING is being done, but honestly, Im not all that impressed.  I do like to see the Focus Fire change, but I would like to have seen an across the board increase to all CAs.  I cant remember the last time I used Trick Arrow.  I dont solo, mostly raid/group, so the root doesnt do much for me.</p><hr></blockquote>You are looking at it the wrong way.  The change to Focus Fire *is* an across the board DPS change.  You can pack the vast majority of attacks into that 10 seconds, basically resulting in a ~25% overall CA damage increase excluding crit AAs. This is under the assumption that crits are 150% damage, I personally don't remember the modifier off-hand.  Your CAs that you would use in between bursts received a damage increase making maintaining the burst DPS easier. You just have to work on your timing.We may need additional work, but this is a very good start.</span><div></div>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div><p>they put the root on one of our CAs that does damage? if root works the same as it did in EQ1 this is going to be bad in groups. rooting a mob in EQ1 changed the hate priority from whoever had the most hate to whoever was the closest. this would get people killed all the time and rooting was often banned in raids. adding root to a damage CA will reduce my group DPS as i will never use that in a group. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>bongo</p><hr></blockquote><p>i tested this the other night. whoever was standing closer had aggro. dont use this root spell in a group</p><p>bongo</p>

[dubbs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div><p>they put the root on one of our CAs that does damage? if root works the same as it did in EQ1 this is going to be bad in groups. rooting a mob in EQ1 changed the hate priority from whoever had the most hate to whoever was the closest. this would get people killed all the time and rooting was often banned in raids. adding root to a damage CA will reduce my group DPS as i will never use that in a group. <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>bongo</p><hr></blockquote><p>i tested this the other night. whoever was standing closer had aggro. dont use this root spell in a group</p><p>bongo</p><hr></blockquote>isn't the tank standing close to the mob?  maybe tell him to take a step closer if it's whoever is closest to mob.

[Prrasha]

It's not simply "whoever's closest". It's "the mob attacks the person highest on his hate list, who is in reach of his attacks." If highest-on-the-hate-list is still in melee range, the mob won't switch to someone else who's 0.1 meters closer just because he's been rooted.

[Money Mak]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Cronon wrote:I use every shot I have in raids and groups and still end up having to melee waiting for my shots to come back up. Why wouldn't you use your trick arrow? It's damage.I'm not seeing Rogues and Brawlers out DPSing me now.......I'd like to see a few parses please.<hr></blockquote><p>I cant post any parses because it wasnt me performing them, but it was based on 67^^^ in scaleborn and a court of aa guild status raid.  not every fight mind you, but more than half.  Wish I could post the 1k+ parses of the conjurer fire pet...</p><p>but I wasnt using trick arrow because screwing with hate can often mean death to either myself or to a guildy. I dont remember the hate gain of trick arrow, but rule #1 for dps in raids is dont steal aggro from MT.  I use hate reduction, not hate increasers.  in groups i could see it being used because mobs die so quick.</p>

[AfflictedOne]

<span><blockquote><hr>Stormhawk wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Money Maker wrote:<p>Im glad to see that SOMETHING is being done, but honestly, Im not all that impressed.  I do like to see the Focus Fire change, but I would like to have seen an across the board increase to all CAs.  I cant remember the last time I used Trick Arrow.  I dont solo, mostly raid/group, so the root doesnt do much for me.</p><hr></blockquote>You are looking at it the wrong way.  The change to Focus Fire *is* an across the board DPS change.  You can pack the vast majority of attacks into that 10 seconds, basically resulting in a ~25% overall CA damage increase excluding crit AAs. This is under the assumption that crits are 150% damage, I personally don't remember the modifier off-hand.  Your CAs that you would use in between bursts received a damage increase making maintaining the burst DPS easier. You just have to work on your timing.We may need additional work, but this is a very good start.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Crits are a 30% damage increase.</span><div></div>

[Stormhawk]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>AfflictedOne wrote:<span></span><span>Crits are a 30% damage increase.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>So roughly a 15% total increase during the salvo, still a respectable increase.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Stormhawk on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:04 PM</span></p>

[Infinity0]

<div></div><div></div><div></div>These new changes are useless, is it that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hard SOE????  Increase all dps of CA's by 25-35% and add a root or stun that lasts more than 6 secounds.  There the dam problem is now solved, is it that [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing hard?<div></div><p>Message Edited by Infinity0 on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:55 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Infinity0 on <span class="date_text">03-10-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:56 PM</span></p>

[jagermiester]

<div></div><div></div>With the aas we are getting this is a good start. Obviously we will never be the dps machines we were pre lu 20 but we are still a killer class played right. Honestly if you cant out dps an assasin its time to spend that plat on some friggen masters and not your newest 5 room mansion in s quenos in my honest opinion. You need to mix up you damage now. Get back position run in and drop a damage+stealth attack foloww this up with a high damage melee attack bounce back out drop a hate reducer/stealth and drop a flank/stealth attack. It takes brains to dps now not just mashing the keys. If you dont like it could i sugest WoW? I mean hell you see what they are trying to do if its still not up to scale im sure we will get a lil boost come lu 22. They are fixing the dps issue. It is evident. Didnt any of you play before LU 13? My templar was a better soloer.<p>Message Edited by jagermiester on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:59 AM</span></p>

[Balerius]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jagermiester wrote:<div></div><div></div>With the aas we are getting this is a good start. Obviously we will never be the dps machines we were pre lu 20 but we are still a killer class played right. Honestly if you cant out dps an assasin its time to spend that plat on some friggen masters and not your newest 5 room mansion in s quenos in my honest opinion. You need to mix up you damage now. Get back position run in and drop a damage+stealth attack foloww this up with a high damage melee attack bounce back out drop a hate reducer/stealth and drop a flank/stealth attack. It takes brains to dps now not just mashing the keys. If you dont like it could i sugest WoW? I mean hell you see what they are trying to do if its still not up to scale im sure we will get a lil boost come lu 22. They are fixing the dps issue. It is evident. Didnt any of you play before LU 13? My templar was a better soloer.<p>Message Edited by jagermiester on <span class="date_text">03-11-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:59 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Assassins get masters too bud.</p><p>Currently we can't keep up with assassin dps.  Most of us know it.  The Devs know it.  If you don't see it, perhaps you just play with crappy assassins if you are regularly out-dpsing them.</p><p>Personally, I doubt that these fixes in the test update will even come close to correcting the dps disparity with assassins.  We need a significant boost to the damage from all of our CAs and/or a decrease in their casting and recasting times in order to match assassin dps.  Giving us an increased crit chance to bow attacks for 10 seconds and a 33% increase to bow autoattack damage isn't going to make that big of a difference.</p><p>As important, in my opinion, is that the disparity with assassins will only grow as they and we apply our AAs.  Assassins who want to maximize their dps have the option of choosing the Str and Int lines.  Together, these skills are complementary...they are melee based.  Rangers, on the other hand, will essentially be forced to go the Agi line (given the pending changes on test pushing us to ranged combat).  Unfortunately, our options for dps after the Agi line both force us into melee combat...away from the strengths SoE is pushing in the test update.  A "fix" to this would be for SoE to make the Int line work with ranged attack instead of only on melee attack.</p><p>I'll wait and see what LU 21 does.  But quite frankly, I don't expect much from these proposed changes and I hope SoE will make additional changes as needed.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div></div><p>In my experiences, assassins get a ton more masters than rangers... I almost never see ours, while assassin's seem to be the new zerkers or defilers...(getting tons)</p><p>*edit (notta askin for change just saying ive noticed this in my xperiences)</p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">03-12-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:04 PM</span></p>

[z3oslo]

<div></div><div><hr></div><p>Rangers, on the other hand, will essentially be forced to go the Agi line (given the pending changes on test pushing us to ranged combat).  Unfortunately, our options for dps after the Agi line both force us into melee combat...away from the strengths SoE is pushing in the test update.  A "fix" to this would be for SoE to make the Int line work with ranged attack instead of only on melee attack</p><hr><p>:smileysurprised:</p><p>Are you saying that the int proc at the end of the int line is not working with ranged? If so we will be waaaaaay behind assasins when it comes to DPS (they also get dam increase off the rings, and we do not)</p><p> </p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Money Maker wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>Cronon wrote:I use every shot I have in raids and groups and still end up having to melee waiting for my shots to come back up. Why wouldn't you use your trick arrow? It's damage.I'm not seeing Rogues and Brawlers out DPSing me now.......I'd like to see a few parses please.<hr></blockquote><p>I cant post any parses because it wasnt me performing them, but it was based on 67^^^ in scaleborn and a court of aa guild status raid.  not every fight mind you, but more than half.  Wish I could post the 1k+ parses of the conjurer fire pet...</p><p>but I wasnt using trick arrow because screwing with hate can often mean death to either myself or to a guildy. I dont remember the hate gain of trick arrow, but rule #1 for dps in raids is dont steal aggro from MT.  I use hate reduction, not hate increasers.  in groups i could see it being used because mobs die so quick.</p><hr></blockquote>That's funny. It's the first shot I start out with during raids. I've only pulled agro once since we were ahem "nerfed" and that was last night's raid against Sunchild, who is tought to hold agro on in the first place. The conjurer's pet was about 200dps above me 700 or so, and I was nailing around 550.However, I grouped with a swashie on Friday in Nest and he was the same level as me. He was laying waste to me. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 while I was doing 450. When I mentioned the disparity (and I have all masters and A3's at this point), they said they don't have any group buffs either and that Swashie's should be in T1 as well. I'm pretty ignorant of the Swashie, but something doesn't smell right. Why haven't they been mentioned. Everyone seems to focus on casters.Not looking for a nerf of swashie's. I'm just asking the question. Has anyone else noticed being outDPSed by Swashie? That shouldn't be happening if we are close in terms of LEQoS (level, equipment, quality of spell), should it?

[Fennir]

I wouldn't stray into the 'nerf rogues' territory (that's not me), but I will say that any swashbuckler who thinks they should be T1 DPS because "they don't have any group buffs" is probably a [Removed for Content].  Swashy utility doesn't come from group buffs.The utility they DO have, can make or break a raid or group.  The only debuffers who come close to rogues are healers, and they're usually too pre-occupied during big pulls to land debuffs as fast as possible.<div></div>

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><font color="#99ff99">Shhhhh, keep our fellow scout numbers on the DL. :smileywink: Don't want SOE hammering any more of my friends.I will just say that there are many classes right now that are doing T1 DPS, or can be if played correctly. Are they the classes that SOE says <em>should</em> be T1?Not really. I gave up believing in the DPS tiers long ago. </font>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cronon wrote:However, I grouped with a swashie on Friday in Nest and he was the same level as me. He was laying waste to me. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 while I was doing 450. When I mentioned the disparity (and I have all masters and A3's at this point), they said they don't have any group buffs either and that Swashie's should be in T1 as well. I'm pretty ignorant of the Swashie, but something doesn't smell right. Why haven't they been mentioned. Everyone seems to focus on casters.Not looking for a nerf of swashie's. I'm just asking the question. Has anyone else noticed being outDPSed by Swashie? That shouldn't be happening if we are close in terms of LEQoS (level, equipment, quality of spell), should it?<hr></blockquote><p>The meaningful comparison currently is between a Swashbuckler and and Assassins.</p><p>There are Rangers reporting being out dpsed by a broad swathe of classes because currently they have issues... so I'm not sure what the special case here with a Swashbuckler is.</p><p>And, we've no idea if you suck or not. Lots of really badly played toons were able to hide behind a stelar dps output on the Ranger pre-nerf and now their dps is in the sewer while some of their peers are reporting significantly better dps. I figure there's a better than evens chance this is so in this case as I maintain Ranger <strong>meleeing alone</strong> produces damage output just shy of a Swashbuckler.</p><p>In short... have any Swashbucklers been out dpsing Rangers at the moment?... yes... what rock have you been under?</p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cronon wrote:However, I grouped with a swashie on Friday in Nest and he was the same level as me. He was laying waste to me. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 750 while I was doing 450. When I mentioned the disparity (and I have all masters and A3's at this point), they said they don't have any group buffs either and that Swashie's should be in T1 as well. I'm pretty ignorant of the Swashie, but something doesn't smell right. Why haven't they been mentioned. Everyone seems to focus on casters.Not looking for a nerf of swashie's. I'm just asking the question. Has anyone else noticed being outDPSed by Swashie? That shouldn't be happening if we are close in terms of LEQoS (level, equipment, quality of spell), should it?<hr></blockquote><p>The meaningful comparison currently is between a Swashbuckler and and Assassins.</p><p>There are Rangers reporting being out dpsed by a broad swathe of classes because currently they have issues... so I'm not sure what the special case here with a Swashbuckler is.</p><p>And, we've no idea if you suck or not. Lots of really badly played toons were able to hide behind a stelar dps output on the Ranger pre-nerf and now their dps is in the sewer while some of their peers are reporting significantly better dps. I figure there's a better than evens chance this is so in this case as I maintain Ranger <strong>meleeing alone</strong> produces damage output just shy of a Swashbuckler.</p><p>In short... have any Swashbucklers been out dpsing Rangers at the moment?... yes... what rock have you been under?</p><hr></blockquote>Wow... did you put me in my place or what? I wouldn't say my DPS is in the sewer. I'm DPSing higher than many of the Rangers I've grouped with and I'm comparing to a lot of the DPS numbers I've seen posted in this forum. I would say that the case is not that I have a poorly played toon. I was playing my toon long before Rangers got any significant DPS, and wasn't doing badly, so you can put that away right there. What rock have I been unders? I said I hadn't grouped with a swashie before and I've not read anything in the forums about them. Where does everyone get the supreme attitude from? My god.

[ArcticRang]

<div></div><p>I'm at work right now so having a hard time accessing some things, but:</p><p> </p><p>When they nerfed proc rates for all proc items, I assume they took away our ability to multiproc on ca's such as triple fire and storm?  If this is so I am quite certain that I would like to see it put back in since there are seperate rolls on the triple fire to see what hits and misses.  Also we are not spending 1 arrow for triple, we spend 3, hence we should have multiple procs, since each is counted seperately. </p><p>Another skill I would like looked at would be trap?  The one we got in DOF with the 3 minute reuse aoe root, restore it  back to what it was pre lu20 it was quite useful, but not much anymore that I can tell unless yer dead on when the mobs path through.  And we all know EQ2 has, and will always have pathing problems.</p><p>I also agree that the two ca's that where mentioned in an earlier post triple fire and ? should have had just a bit of an increase.</p><p>I really wish we had a true upgrade for cheap shot that works for all mobs except epic no  matter how many arrows up or down it  has, and that the length of time would also be the same.  If this makes us overpowered, at lower levels, make it so that you don't get the 6 seconds until you get adept 3 or master 1 etc of it.</p><p>I've been watching alot of the changes unfold and I am pretty happy with most of it, though looking at the AA nerf the 4 sec root/stun whatever is really disheartening.  I use cheap shot as much as possible and becomes very helpful in a tight pinch.  most of the time 4 seconds is not enough to survey your surroundings for adds, step back and take a bowshot.  This is where cheap shot has excelled in my book, I have plenty of time to step away and take 2-3 shots, or step through the mob and use a combo. </p><p>Alot of the content starting with DOF and becoming much more prevalent in KOS is the use of up and down arrow mobs there are tons of solo mobs running around with one arrow up, which makes cheap shot useless, I can do blue ones, but no way can I do a white.  I've tried doing solo writs that are requiring me to go and kill 15 of these white con 1 arrow up mobs, and they are virtually impossible.  Though I have also beenable to barely solo a yellow con 1 arrow up mob.  Mob types after the KOS expansion and lu20 are very very hard to discern and we are stuck with picking and choosing our targets very carefully, which in turn most mob types are not advertised until they close with you and beat you to crap.</p><p> </p><p>Anyway just my 2 cents on things.</p>