Ranger/Assassin Utility for group and raid

[Saihung23]

<div></div><div><div>In the next test server updates, you'll see some of the changes that we're making made for Rangers. I analyzed DPS data from Rangers throughout all the servers and pinpointed specific problem areas.</div><div> </div><div>-Some of the Ranger melee and ranged combat arts were dealing less damage than what an Assassin would deal. This was never addressed in the past largely because their proc damage overshadowed any deficiencies in the actual combat arts damage. They are now increased to match the damage performance of an Assassin. The difference remains that Rangers have more ranged combat arts than Assassins, so they do have more combat arts that require slightly more casting time than Assassins.</div><div> </div><div>-Most classes don't have ranged autoattack unless they are pulling. Rangers are an exception because of how often they use ranged combat arts will force them to use their ranged autoattack much more often. Damage rating across all ranged weapons is increased by 33% to be in line with the damage rating offered by 2-handed weapons. Previously their average damage rating was below that of a 1-handed weapon.</div><div> </div><div>-Soloing for a Ranger is generally difficult because they are at a tactical disadvantage for having less melee combat arts than Assassins. Their 'Lunge' combat art line was a melee attack + DoT, which really did not offer anything different than their 'Bleeding Cut' line. 'Lunge' is now changed into a melee attack + very short duration unbreakable Root, so that the Ranger can back away and get up to two more ranged combat arts in while soloing.</div><p></p><div>===========================Jared SweattEverQuest II Spells and Combat Designer</div></div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I appreciate what Jared is saying here.  However, I think that if we are brought in line Damage wise with our Assassin Cousins, the next thing that ought to be looked at is the functionality of rangers and assassins in raids and groups.  I personally still believe that we are shortchanged on the utility end of the stick....</div><div> </div><div>It was previously argued by everyone and their gnome momma that rangers utility and assassins utility lay in their poisons...well, with the massive changes to the proc rates and charges of poisons that something needs to be developed for rangers and assassins to add to the grouping side of the game.  I am sorry tracking is fantastic but not a draw for groups...how many people forming a raid say "well of course we need a ranger(assassin) for their tracking ability".</div><div> </div><div>Also feel free to add pathfinding to that list of not so hot utilities....SoW beats it by a mile.</div><div> </div><div>This is what I think needs to be addressed at the same time as bringing us in line with assassins and OTHER T1 classes.</div><div> </div><div>Saihung</div><div> </div><div>PS Dont think I am ungrateful for the proposed changes Jared makes, however,  I cant see those changes bringing back our usefullness to the group/raid.  Cant blame me for trying to make us more wanted.</div>

[Deml]

<div></div>You're missing the fact that Assassins can transfer agro to a tank, just like swashies.

[Briz]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Demlar wrote:<div></div>You're missing the fact that Assassins can transfer agro to a tank, just like swashies.<hr></blockquote>This is group-transferrable only. Do you honestly think a raiding guild is going to group an assassin in the MT group just for extra hate? Too many other classes with group-only resist/HP buffs that they should be grouping with. This is useful for group xp'ing and whatnot, but completely worthless at a raid.</span></div>

[rcknchr]

<div></div>At least they are giving us some of our dps back if they go through with the changes. I just hope the short duration root is long enough for us to back peddle and get 1 or 2 bow CA's off before it breaks.

[Vlath]

<div>As Sad as it is, Very often Rangers, Assasins and the scout class in general are added for two main reasons, dps and trap disarm. At least that has been my experience.</div><div> </div><div>Of course there is evac, but mages get that too.</div><div> </div><div>I agree we should be able to offer something more.</div><div> </div><div>Schade, NaGaFeN</div>

[King Leor]

<div>Ummmm, ya Brizzy, it makes sense to have that assassin in the MT group for extra hate, other wise if someone pulls aggro on a AE mob, BOOM!! everyones dead or close to it. And than with tank getting more aggo, people can kill faster which = more productive raid.</div><div> </div><div>Leoric</div><div>Level 60 ([Removed for Content]) ranger</div>

[Jagdwol]

<span><blockquote><hr>Demlar wrote:<div></div>You're missing the fact that Assassins can transfer agro to a tank, just like swashies.<hr></blockquote>I was thinking more fun you can have like transfering the agro to the Healer that isn't doing their job <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div>

[Guy De Alsace]

Tracking is useful in groups and I've been brought in specifically for track before now. Especially in places like Sanctum of the Scaleborn where getting the drop on a named before one of the 3 million other groups in there requires a scout with his track window up all the time.However all scouts get track so it doesnt apply 100% to Rangers.Nice to see something being done at least. If that very short duration stun is like 1 second we have zero chance of loosing a ranged CA at the mob IMO. Usually takes longer than that to cast...Really wish they would just ditch stun poisons too. Gives us a bad name.<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>Them's Rogue toes you're stepping on. You're t1 Scouts, you have enough utility as is with tracking, evac and some mild debuffs. If that's not enough utility for ya, how's about being able to stand outside AoE range?</p><p>Give it a rest guys would ya?</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Yah briz... Leo's right on this one... certain raids we def put an assassin in tank's group... especially on encounters that memblur and such...</p><p>Sometimes we bring more than one tank too! heh...</p>

[Tarryn]

<div></div><p>Being wanted on groups/raids is definitely nice--but I'd just as soon is was our sheer DPS output that made us wanted.</p><p>I don't mind us being a one trick pony, as long as that trick is pretty spectacular...  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Shinta]

<span><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>Them's Rogue toes you're stepping on. You're t1 Scouts, you have enough utility as is with tracking, evac and some mild debuffs. If that's not enough utility for ya, how's about being able to stand outside AoE range?</p><p>Give it a rest guys would ya?</p><hr></blockquote>Wow, tracking, I can see the idea of getting there first, but really! Do you honestly think you'd pick a ranger over ANY other scout just for tracking? Name something that is specific to the ranger class alone and doesn't include that of the scout line. THEN tell us to give it a rest...</span><div></div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Shintaro wrote:<span>Wow, tracking, I can see the idea of getting there first, but really! Do you honestly think you'd pick a ranger over ANY other scout just for tracking? Name something that is specific to the ranger class alone and doesn't include that of the scout line. THEN tell us to give it a rest...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Name another class that can pull any mob they can target with absolutely no line of sight.Do you have any idea how sick this ability is?</span></div>

[Shinta]

that's funny, there are plenty of times I get a "You can't see target" message and my ranged or melee for that matter fails until I get into a position where I can "see" it. I really don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, because I will get that message several times a night especially when there are hills, walls, and other obstacles involved.<div></div>

[Lego]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shintaro wrote:that's funny, there are plenty of times I get a "You can't see target" message and my ranged or melee for that matter fails until I get into a position where I can "see" it. I really don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, because I will get that message several times a night especially when there are hills, walls, and other obstacles involved.<div></div><hr></blockquote>He'd be talking about the miracle shot line.  Doesn't require line of sight and can be used to ninja pull a lot of mobs, especially in dungeons.

[Gareorn]

<div>The miracle arrow line, lets you shoot things or pull from places you can't get to.  It's the one thing we have that is actually useful.  It's not needed very often, but when it is, it's invaluable.</div>

[Daxtyr_AnnonTuri]

oh fyi my Dirge can trak to

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Shintaro wrote:that's funny, there are plenty of times I get a "You can't see target" message and my ranged or melee for that matter fails until I get into a position where I can "see" it. I really don't know what the hell you guys are talking about, because I will get that message several times a night especially when there are hills, walls, and other obstacles involved.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Learn about your class.</span></div>

[Rahmn]

<div></div>Honestly, I don't want to be like an assassin, I don't want skills that someone else has.  If every scout could do something similar to every other scouts, why have 6 different scout classes or even 2 different predator classes?  Please don't ask for us to be more vanila.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Rahmn on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:32 AM</span></p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Shintaro wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>Them's Rogue toes you're stepping on. You're t1 Scouts, you have enough utility as is with tracking, evac and some mild debuffs. If that's not enough utility for ya, how's about being able to stand outside AoE range?</p><p>Give it a rest guys would ya?</p><hr></blockquote>Wow, tracking, I can see the idea of getting there first, but really! Do you honestly think you'd pick a ranger over ANY other scout just for tracking? Name something that is specific to the ranger class alone and doesn't include that of the scout line. THEN tell us to give it a rest...</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>No, I absolutely wouldn't pick a Ranger for anything other than dps, <strong>and that is the whole point....</strong> If I require utility beyond dps then it's a Rogue or a Bard I'd be picking and that's the rational for those two brackets of classes.</p><p>I'll repeat, you get track, evac, mild debuff and if any other utility is required it's a Rogue or a Bard you'll be calling. That's by design, not by accident. You're a predator. Your designated role is t1 dps. <strong>Not</strong> utility.... but you asked so I'll answer somethign specific to a Ranger that no other Scout gets... ranged t1, low maintanence  damage during AE encounters.... don't reply with Amazing Reflexes, it got nerfed to hell thanks to the Assassins.</p><p>You get picked for your dps. That's it. You dont get picked for anything else. If you want to get picked for something else you need to roll a Rogue or a Bard. It really is that simple. There's 6 types of Scouts inhabiting this space not "Rangers and the rest".... here's the shocker... sometimes another type of Scout might get chosen over a Ranger... I know, I went and said it. I'm a bad man.</p>

[nimbus2kgold]

<div></div><div>I happen to agree with needing utility.  Im not asking for much, but one or two group buffs would be fantastic.  Maybe one that raises the groups agility, or piercing ability.  Or strength or hey, even ranged!  Something class relevant.  Some group buff that makes us unique from every other scout class.</div><div> </div><div>That wouldnt make us more vanilla.  It would give us some caramel topping.</div><div> </div><div>**edit** in response to the poster above me, yes we are mainly dps.  but even our T1 dps robe-wearing counterparts ( wizzy/warlock) get 2 or 3 group buffs.  we just want the same consideration.</div><p>Message Edited by nimbus2kgold on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:47 AM</span></p>

[LoreLady]

I happen to disagree 100%.. I would gladly give up all disarm, tracking, pathfinding abilities, debuff poisons, if we can stay tier 1 dps, and not have to worry about things like bards, monks, bezerkers, shadowknights, doing the same damage as me.I personally feel that poisons should be bonus dps for all scout classes. Mages give the arguement that they wear cloth we dont, we loose our DPS when we go in our defensive, or go into melee. We loose our avoidance when we go into our offensive. I also feel that if we are tier one dps, and get ANY sort of util we are stepping on SOMEONE ELSES TOES.Im sorry if it seems like I am flaming it just exasperating when I hear people asking for everything, and then expecting it.

[Carna]

<div></div><p>Something that makes you unique?... What like being the only bow focused class in the game?</p><p>OK, I'm with you getting more utility... I think Rogues should get more dps. Lets scrub the t1 and t2 Scout thing lets spread both the dps and the utility around both the Predators and the Rogues... you have my full support. Sod it, lets include Bards too. Lets all do the same damage and have the same utility... then we can all be different the same.</p><p>Prats.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div></div><p>The problem with the miricle shot line is that you actually have to be able to see the mob, even if its not "line of sight".... it honestly doesnt help me out anymore than other classes, unless im pullin mobs down off a roof somewhere, (ie godking where it IS invaluable...)</p><p>Otherwise you have to put yourself in line of sight to target the mob anyway. The fact that u can then move and pull it seems inconsequential...basically it helps, but not to the degree that its being made up to here.</p><p>*EDIT*</p><p>we also have plenty of utility in groups and raids. Its just all off mob, not direct to group member.... Think of confusion arrow, leg shot, forsters noose (this one is HUUGE and no one ever sees it) culling of the weak blah blah blah.... Slowing the mobs up to about 200% by yourself, all the spells on xtremely fast timers doesnt sound like 0 utility to me. Foresters noose line has a large fire debuff. Change your arguement maybe... we dont get group buffs or something....(Only one i think we need is a group (even solo?) speed = to bards... rangers being as slow as we are is a travesty... seriously think about it)</p><p>maybe rangers should get a group buff that improves crit chance  by 1% at adept and 2% at master level or something. Im thinking these numbers should be as low as possible, but even a 2% chance is xtremely large...</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta</p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">03-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:11 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

I can think of tons of chests post-kos with great items my guild has looted and sold for vault plats because we didn't have to clear to a named I could target.  If that's not a class defining skill I don't know what is.<div></div>

[Racmo]

<div>To the rogue above and others arguing the utility. </div><div> </div><div>My stance is.  As long as a rogue doesn't touch my DPS meter, I don't want any more utility than I have.  It's that simple. </div><div> </div><div>BUT...right now, rogues are out DPSing me.  Either it gets straighten out or I get utility.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>50 Ranger</div>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div>To the rogue above and others arguing the utility. </div><div> </div><div>My stance is.  As long as a rogue doesn't touch my DPS meter, I don't want any more utility than I have.  It's that simple. </div><div> </div><div>BUT...right now, rogues are out DPSing me.  Either it gets straighten out or I get utility.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>50 Ranger</div><hr></blockquote><p>Hey, some of the most vocal supporter of "Rangers are broke, fix them" have been Rogues, and unless you're blind the devs have indeed begun the process of fixing Rangers.</p><p>Exercise your brain a little and try not to alienate the other Scouts around you, they've been your biggest supporters in recent weeks. We're going to feel like right idiots if you turn around and [Removed for Content] on our feet afterwards.</p><p>Of course <strong>if</strong> what you're requesting off the devs is that they don't fix your dps but instead give you more utility then I'm all for that... is that what you're asking for?</p>

[LoreLady]

Check the date on most of these posts carn.  And he was vocalizing what rangers already believe, as long as rogues dont touch dps we dont care for util.

[USAFJeeper]

<div>I was able to use that CA last night to pull an epic mob to the raid.  It used to be called the ranger sacrifice in EQ1 <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />   Of course they were able to rez me before the fight was over to get the AE  from killing a named!</div><div> </div><div>Actually I think the rezzer started casting on me when I said INC %T!   It is a very good utility for rangers though.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[A]

<div></div><div>We are the pullers of choice for raids, what more you want ?</div><div>Know anyone else that can pull a mob not in line of sight, or pull a named from a room full of socials mobs without aggroing them ?</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div>My favorite is pulling through the walls with this CA :smileyvery-happy: Makes people dumb founded when I can do this.

[Saihung23]

<blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div>To the rogue above and others arguing the utility. </div><div> </div><div>My stance is.  As long as a rogue doesn't touch my DPS meter, I don't want any more utility than I have.  It's that simple. </div><div> </div><div>BUT...right now, rogues are out DPSing me.  Either it gets straighten out or I get utility.</div><div> </div><div>Tobi</div><div>50 Ranger</div><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ff33ff">Hey, some of the most vocal supporter of "Rangers are broke, fix them" have been Rogues, and unless you're blind the devs have indeed begun the process of fixing Rangers.</font></p><p><font color="#ff33ff">Exercise your brain a little and try not to alienate the other Scouts around you, they've been your biggest supporters in recent weeks. We're going to feel like right idiots if you turn around and [Removed for Content] on our feet afterwards.</font></p><p><font color="#ff33ff">Of course <strong>if</strong> what you're requesting off the devs is that they don't fix your dps but instead give you more utility then I'm all for that... is that what you're asking for?</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>I am not sure if I am reading you right here rogue...are you upset over me looking for utility?  If the dev's ever saw fit to provide rangers with a useful group/raid spell I hardly think that would be "[Removed for Content] on your feet afterwards". </p><p>I am truly sorry you feel that way rogue.   Because I would love to be wanted again for sheer DPS...but seriously, Wizards have utility and DPS.  My question is why not us?  I mean cripes man, its not like I suggested that a buff be implemented for Rangers that raises the group/raid strength by 100 points.  I said I would like to some type of utility for us...since we are not stand out DPS anymore.  Please, convince the dev's to rollback the proc changes, let me and every other Ranger be amazing DPS then I dont care if I have any utility. </p><p>However, with the current state of the DPS (SNAFU), I feel left out to dry.  I have a character which does not bring enough to the table to make up for the lack of group useful abilities.  I have been asked to group for my tracking once, when I was level 22.  Never did anyone ask me to group for my disarm...heck most groups I have ever been in they rush the chests before a scout gets to it.  I generally back off knowing some poor soul is going to trigger a nasty trap.</p><p>In all honesty rogue, I cant say I didnt expect some backlash from some of the other scout classes on the mere mention of utility, but to say we are "[Removed for Content] on your feet"....making you feel like an idiot...I am truly sorry.</p><p>It does not change my stance...give us stand out DPS or give us some utility for groups and raids.  I will add this though, I would never ever want a utility that just made rangers into rogues with bows...or bards with bows minus the singing...I just want to be able to do something useful when the group says, "ok hold here, buff up!".</p><p>With the way poisons disappear now I guess that is when I would reapply poisons...if I were getting any groups right now. </p><p>To any of the other classes who read this, discussing this topic isnt a slight to you...if anything its admiration for the elements you add to a group.  Admiration of the fact that you may not being doing jaw dropping damage, but are appealing to groups and raids for your usefullness. </p><p>Well...we dont do jaw dropping damage, I dont think the changes proposed will do anything but put us right along side other classes (DPS wise) but we will still lag behind in terms of utility.</p><p>Sorry this topic upset you so much to the degree it did.  I suggest not reading it further if it is not to your liking. </p><p>Peace Health and Happiness</p><p>Saihung</p>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>I'm... really surprised to hear anyone here asking for more utility.</p><p><em>Utility???</em></p><p>You're kidding, right? Don't take the current state of affairs as the new norm. Thanks to Lockeye we know some fixes are coming, so "my DPS is crap now so I want utility" holds no water. <em>We are a DPS class. </em></p><p>Leave the utility to the classes that are intended to provide it. In the scout family, that's bards and, to a lesser extent, rogues. Assassins and rangers are not here for utility, we're here to KILL THINGS.</p><p>What little utility we do get is nice. I like it. Everytime we go into Nest, we ride the elevator up, and I track the named on that floor so our MT knows which room he's spawned in that time. Every time we raid Gates, I pull Ritual Mistress Cheroon to the lower platform using Miracle Shot. No, we don't get invited to raids for Pathfinding, but our wizards seem to like it when I knock the target's heat resist down by 1200 or so. /shrug</p><p><scratches head> I'm just gonna.. go to another thread now. I mean.. what? Utility? Next thing we know, warlocks will want reactive heals! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div>Madigan, no offense, but you need a better tank. I pull all the time, godking etc, and i never die from it... stand a little behind guardian, and if you die, start yelling cause its his fault.</div><div>*edit*</div><div>and [Removed for Content] if i dont think Jay is right as always... fanboi am I!</div><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">03-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:36 PM</span></p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><p>I'm... really surprised to hear anyone here asking for more utility.</p><p><em>Utility???</em></p><p>You're kidding, right? Don't take the current state of affairs as the new norm. Thanks to Lockeye we know some fixes are coming, so "my DPS is crap now so I want utility" holds no water. <em>We are a DPS class. <font color="#ff33cc">Nope, I am not kidding.  We are a DPS class that does mediocre DPS damage.  Perhaps if they fix our DPS then I would not feel this way.  I have read and understand changes are coming, but I will reserve judgement till then as to whether or not I feel "fixed".  </font></em></p><p>Leave the utility to the classes that are intended to provide it. In the scout family, that's bards and, to a lesser extent, rogues. Assassins and rangers are not here for utility, we're here to KILL THINGS.   <font color="#ff66ff">Agreed, and there should be nothing wrong with one group/single target buff being in our abilities.  Nothing major...I never suggested we get some uber buff or something that would irk the true utility classes.  </font></p><p>What little utility we do get is nice. I like it. Everytime we go into Nest, we ride the elevator up, and I track the named on that floor so our MT knows which room he's spawned in that time. Every time we raid Gates, I pull Ritual Mistress Cheroon to the lower platform using Miracle Shot. No, we don't get invited to raids for Pathfinding, but our wizards seem to like it when I knock the target's heat resist down by 1200 or so. /shrug <font color="#ff33ff">     Well, pathfinding is nothing someone asks for ever, raid or group, tracking is great for a group but is a utility for rogues as well right? and troubs? I certainly hope they have more utility than that...That leaves miracle shot, our snare, and trick arrow as our "utility".  I know more than a few people disagree with me already, [Removed for Content], and this next statement will make fewer agree with me likely...I personally dont consider an attack to be a form of utility.  I want something more...is that really so very wrong.</font></p><p>I'm just gonna.. go to another thread now. I mean.. what? Utility? Next thing we know, warlocks will want reactive heals! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><font color="#ff33ff">I hate to think I have started a thread that has you walking out of it...I respect your opinion greatly Jay42, and I will think more on this...but I want DPS that will make a rogues jaw drop to the ground, I want to lay a smackdown on a candy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] mob that will make a troubador go "Dammmnn".   If I am going to be a solely DPS class then I should be in my own league (with wizards/warlocks/assassins of course).  When I see that the proposed changes put us back into the dps business, my opinion may change easier...but right now it is difficult to see past what my ranger can do right now.  </font><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99cc66">One last note, I would like to thank WWE and The Rock for phrases such as "lay a smackdown" and "candy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]" anything.  Also, I would like to say the Flyers will win the Stanley Cup.  </font></p><p><font color="#99cc66"></font> </p><p><font color="#99cc66">Saihung</font></p><p></p>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>This sounds more like you have problems with our current DPS than with our utility. So you're asking for more utility to compensate for our reduced DPS. But given that we all agree our DPS is a bit low, and that we now know it's getting raised in LU21, the request seems a bit excessive.</p><p>Personally, if we didn't already know about the changes Lockeye posted, I'd be pushing for more DPS, not more utility. I don't want the role of a ranger to change just b/c some proc changes revealed deficiencies in our ranged damage and CAs. If I wanted utility, I'd have rolled a rogue or bard.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[bobbit]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote>.... don't reply with Amazing Reflexes, it got nerfed to hell thanks to the Assassins.</blockquote><hr></blockquote>Get your facts straight... it was the swashies... not the assassins.

[Saihung23]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><p>This sounds more like you have problems with our current DPS than with our utility. So you're asking for more utility to compensate for our reduced DPS. But given that we all agree our DPS is a bit low, and that we now know it's getting raised in LU21, the request seems a bit excessive.</p><p>Personally, if we didn't already know about the changes Lockeye posted, I'd be pushing for more DPS, not more utility. <font color="#ff66ff">I don't want the role of a ranger to change just b/c some proc changes revealed deficiencies in our ranged damage and CAs</font>. If I wanted utility, I'd have rolled a rogue or bard.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><hr></blockquote><p>True...mayhap I will find that once they fix it my desire to have something more will dissappear.  In no way was I trying to usurp the roles of rogues or any other utility scout.  I sometimes just wish for something to do at that buff up moment...but playing the other night I realized something...</p><p>I buff the hell out of myself just before the pull (or as they are pulling).  Honed reflexes, the two proc buffs, focus, and then my stealth...I really dont need to worry about more buffs...I have about 4 if not one or two more I am forgetting....</p><p>In the end you are very likely right Jay...the DPS thing has me all out of sorts...lol, and once it returns I will feel better all around with rangers in the game.</p><p>Sai</p><p>PS.  The last thing any of us need to do though is in fighting between us scouts.  I dont think the game designers would listen to me anywho.   As someone who doesnt play his alts with any regularity, I am always glad to hear from other classes, and truly did not mean to step on anyones toes in retrospect.  For that I apologize.</p><p>PPS. See Mods...I am not foul mouthed all the time, nor am I argumentative <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </p><p>Message Edited by Saihung23 on <span class="date_text">03-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:29 PM</span></p>

[Storm_Runner]

<div></div>I gotta go with Kaeros and some of the others on this one.  I don't need any more utility than what I have right now.  Since they're fixing our dps in LU21 I'm happy.  I don't need anything else to bring to a group or raid.  My dps <em>is</em> my utility.  The utility of making things dead fast.  We're a T1 dps class...thats what we do.  If they gave us more utility of the type you're discussing we'd be infringing into the territory of the other scout classes.  They don't want it because who needs the extra competition and I and some of the other rangers don't want it because it would take us away from our true purpose...ranged death.  Sharp pointy death from afar...yeah baby!!!  Please leave my utility alone and let me kill things.

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ff33ff">but I want DPS that will make a rogues jaw drop to the ground</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Then you're going to be disappointed because that not how the Tiers work. You were spoilt previously being in a league all your own and unfortunately you grew to believe that was the way it's supposed to be while it's not.</p><p>Tier 2 begins where Tier 3 leaves off. A top notch Bruiser will rival or even surpass a low hanging Swashbuckler. That's by design, the devs even addressed it in their description of Tiers. The same relationship exists between Rogues and Predators, and perhaps you need to talk to more Assassins about what it means to be Tier 1. Assassins can with the wind blowing in the right direction output dps that a Rogue wont ever come close to. That does not mean that every Assassin will trounce every Rogue.</p><p>You desperately need to get your head around how most of the other classes play the game, you've been in your own bubble way too long. You'll do Assassin levels of damage, and be thankful you're not a Wizard frankly regardless of what you want.</p>

[Teksun]

I have all the utility I need.It's hard enough deciding which poison to use on a raid, LOL... Hmm... drain power? steal Power? drain health? steal health? lower what mitigation? lower what stats?<div></div>