new 65 spell Hawk Dive - your thoughts

[hieronym]

<div>not a bad spell by the looks of it. Managed to save my bacon last night when i was out scouting around. Got jumped by a yellow mob so after a few of my weak melee attacks and short stuns out came the bird. Got aggro straight away so that allowed me to get back and fire off some shots to get the mob low down on health and allow me to go in for the kill.</div><div> </div><div>I think the pet should last the duration of the encounter as it depopping after 20 seconds seems a bit excessive (this will also help us solo better). Theres no description I could see on spell time...</div><div> </div><div>would be nice to upgrade the DPS and the health of the pet with adept3 etc rather than just the aggro transfer. It was doing around 20 DPS on lvl 67^^^ mob last night at adept 1.</div>

[Serakk]

<div>Cool Hieronymus,not 65 yet but have been looking forward to this spell as I havent got to try it out on live and want to badly.Thanks for the info.</div>

[brandi7920]

<div></div><p>That sounds pretty cool and like it could be a big help in soloing and small group scenarios. I have to admit that before I read this, I was thinking that this spell would be useless since I never ever draw aggro (no matter how hard I try)..so why would I need to transfer hate that isn't there? But, soloing....oh yah..I can see that being very handy!</p><p>Thanks for the info!! I'm really looking forward to trying that out now!!</p><p> </p>

[hieronym]

<div></div><p>just to clarify the mob that the DPS was on (67^^^)wasnt the same as the mob that jumped me :smileyhappy:</p>

[brandi7920]

<div></div><p>lol - yah..I caught that. :smileywink: I assumed you were not saying that you had solo'd the 67^^^ using that spell..otherwise they'd take that CA back real quick. lol</p><p>Nice to have a CA that will help us be able to use our bow attacks more in solo fights. It would be nice if it was a spell for all levels (upgraded ever 14 levels) so that all rangers would have a tool that useful to keep them rangery - especially when soloing.</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>I've Had good results with this, Currently only have Adept 1.</p><p>At Adept 1, it Siphon's 18% hate from the group into it for 5 Seconds on Each Succesfull hit, and with the attacks hitting every 2 seconds or so, the hate siphon is almost permanently on assuming it's hiting.</p><p> I think on Raids it will be a nice piece of Utility when there is no troub, a couple rangers spamming hawks with your heavy DPS casters who pull aggro will definitely help.</p><p>It can hold it's own against solo mobs too, Send it against a solo mob or a ^ arrow mob and cast Surveil/Elude right after, and the mob will usually stick to the hawk long enough for you to unload enough bow attacks.</p><p>The hawk does about 15-30DPS, nothing to write home about but it can be usefull, mine on average hit for 100-200 damage.</p><p> </p><p>Problems:</p><p>Biggest problem with it is that it breaks stealth, if your hawk is out beating on a mob, everytime you try to stealth and the hawk attacks it breaks your stealth, making your long cast stealth attacks (Sniper/Veiled Fire) unusable. That's been my only complaint so far.</p><p>Otherwise, I'm fairly pleased with this spell.</p>

[Deml]

<div></div><p>I've had good experiences with this as well, mine basically mirror Khalan's comments.  I'm at Ad1 with it and seeing the same things, although I don't know how he figured out the 18% hate transfer thing. heh</p><p>The other issue, besides the one Khalan stated, with the hawk is that it seems to poof after it's initial target dies if nothing else has hit it.  I've seen a group of mobs hit the hawk and it move to the next one after the first died.  That happened only a couple times.  Usually what happens is I send the hawk, nothing else hits it and it poofs after the first target dies.  That really limits it's usefulness in groups with a tank that can hold agro.  The pet doesn't last it's full duration then and we only get part of the benefit.  Would be nice to see it move through all of the targets in the encounter, although that might cause problems with mez and things down the road.</p>

[Gailstryd]

<div></div>Anyone else notice the new descriptive text on Confusion Arrow?  Can't remember it word for word right now but it says something akin to the hate gain increaser will be applied to the TARGET the MOB IS ATTACKING.  Something I found of interest since it would help that much more with agro issues for other classes since we have none now and since it means it's a good thing ot offload confusion arrow since before I never used it for fear of being striken with my own hate increaser.

[Gailstryd]

<div></div>My point being its like they are turning us into an agro manager class which is ok I guess but I'd much rather have some of my dps back.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Demlar wrote:<div></div><p>I've had good experiences with this as well, mine basically mirror Khalan's comments.  I'm at Ad1 with it and seeing the same things, although I don't know how he figured out the 18% hate transfer thing. heh</p><p>The other issue, besides the one Khalan stated, with the hawk is that it seems to poof after it's initial target dies if nothing else has hit it.  I've seen a group of mobs hit the hawk and it move to the next one after the first died.  That happened only a couple times.  Usually what happens is I send the hawk, nothing else hits it and it poofs after the first target dies.  That really limits it's usefulness in groups with a tank that can hold agro.  The pet doesn't last it's full duration then and we only get part of the benefit.  Would be nice to see it move through all of the targets in the encounter, although that might cause problems with mez and things down the road.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Demlar, if you look at your maintained buff window whenever the hawk strikes, you'll get a Flashing Icon called "Hawk's Distraction" (looks like the Hawk Icon, but with orange backround) This is the group wide buff it casts in order to siphon hate, mousing over this gives you the 18% number for Adept 1.</p><p>You can also tell from this that each casting of "hawk's distraction" last's 5 seconds, and it is refreshed on every hit.</p><p>Message Edited by ChaosUndivided on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:04 AM</span></p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Gailstryder wrote:<div></div>My point being its like they are turning us into an agro manager class which is ok I guess but I'd much rather have some of my dps back.<hr></blockquote>Honestly I could really care less about confusion arrows extra effects, the benefits are so minimal and unnoticed I just treat it as an extra DD bow attack that I use whenever it's up.

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">I can't pull aggro. I tried for 8 hours yesterday in a group. I CAN'T do it. :smileysad:So is that our new roll? Added aggro reduction for groups and raids?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff99">Ohhh Ohhhh you know what tho, I like Point Blank Shot. Once you have that and the hawk, I dont want to hear anyone crying about not bein able to solo even con or even low yellow mob. Unless its because your are still getting blocked or parried on stealthed bow attacks from the flank. (ridiculous)</font></p>

[Deml]

<div></div>Cool, thanks.  Have to admit, i've never paid attention to my maintained buffs when I had the hawk out.  Will have to check and see what it does at Ad3 and M1 levels.

[Gailstryd]

<div></div><div>Ok i went back and looked at Confusion arrow again and it has some limited advantage for hate.  Yeah it is just another DD but any benefit we get out of anything right now is something good and they changed it right around LU20.  It puts a 10sec buff on teh mob with a 10% chance to proc a hate increase towards the person it's hitting, at least thats how i understand it.</div>

[Star]

<div></div>I'm own personal opinion of this spell is that it's useful only in solo (or the rare situation where the MT drops though I doubt that the Hawk would hold up very long against Heroic ^^^). Otherwise your stealing hate not only from your other grp members but also from the MT. Potential disaster in the making IMO. What might improve it? How about adding grp members except fighters. They have that functionality in an AA that Enchanters get so they obviously can impliment such a thing. Then it would be a useful spell to help deagro yourself or the other DPS members of your grp. Just my 2cp

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><font color="#99ff99">If memory serves me correct, the description does in fact say "all non-fighter classes" But Im at work and not looking at the description of the adept I have waiting for me in 66% LOL.</font>

[hieronym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div>I'm own personal opinion of this spell is that it's useful only in solo (or the rare situation where the MT drops though I doubt that the Hawk would hold up very long against Heroic ^^^). Otherwise your stealing hate not only from your other grp members but also from the MT. Potential disaster in the making IMO. What might improve it? How about adding grp members except fighters. They have that functionality in an AA that Enchanters get so they obviously can impliment such a thing. Then it would be a useful spell to help deagro yourself or the other DPS members of your grp. Just my 2cp<hr></blockquote>it syphons hate from non fighter group members

[Star]

<div></div>That would be cool then. I haven't been able to see a desc on live yet myself. On beta I believe when I looked it said all group members. If it's now non-fighters then most excellent. :smileyvery-happy:

[Selth]

<div>Well looks like we at least got this spell to help us rangers in groups now that they took away our pulling mobs off squishies in raids and groups. Use this spell ALOT in groups when the healer or DPS peels in big groups to pull mobs off them. Not too hard to just hate reduce and send the mobs back to the tank. Saved and a friend using it that way. Hopefully they will give this spell a lil bit of an upgrade in the near future giving the bird a lil longer duration, HP and a lil more DPS would drastically help us out trying to solo mobs. But still found the getting agro off mulitiple mobs on squishies fast to ease a lil of the pain off the tank seems to be the best use for this spell atm.</div><div> </div><div>Selthin Lethquay </div><div>66 Ranger Nektulos</div>

[A]

<div></div><p>I got the adept version from guild bank because otherwise I would never have bought it.</p><p>Looks totally useless to me...</p><p>I don't need it to solo and in group it's going to take ages to educate the nukers that they can nuke more if I bring my hawk out....</p><p>Really, a waste of a hotkey and I think it will quickly leave my hotbar and go rust forever in my book ( next to bounty..).</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Arhan]

<div></div><div>ahh that would explain why stealth breaks.....  Umm anyways useful skill i'd like a perm pet though <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Would help our dps and make us interesting.</div>

[Steezi]

<div></div>Gail as far as i know confusion arrow line has always given hate to the target mob is attacking....

[ReynardTheFox]

It's utter garbage compared to the signature spell of most of the other classes.Further proof that these devs couldn't organise a [Removed for Content]-up in a brewery.<div></div>

[roblinb]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>ReynardTheFox wrote:It's utter garbage compared to the signature spell of most of the other classes.Further proof that these devs couldn't organise a [Removed for Content]-up in a brewery.<div></div><hr></blockquote>ha!  can we name it?  imma name mine pecker :smileytongue:

[ReynardTheFox]

Yes, you can name it with the standard /petname <name>. Mine is called "ThisDoesNothing".<div></div>

[subari]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dirtgirl wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">I can't pull aggro. I tried for 8 hours yesterday in a group. I CAN'T do it. :smileysad:So is that our new roll? Added aggro reduction for groups and raids?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff99">Ohhh Ohhhh you know what tho, I like Point Blank Shot. Once you have that and the hawk, I dont want to hear anyone crying about not bein able to solo even con or even low yellow mob. Unless its because your are still getting blocked or parried on stealthed bow attacks from the flank. (ridiculous)</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Yesterday i managed sometimes to get the aggro from a pala, specially when not asissting it. *g* He never taunted the mob back, so i asked why. He thougth that i had an aggromanagement-spell like the trouba or the swashi has. :smileymad: Would be nice, to get some more aggromanagent. This spell looks to be usefull in raids, where rangers usually are in a dps-group.</p><p> </p>

[Evolution8]

Agro is usually not a large problem in a well managed group. The damage from the bird blows horribly.Theirs no doubt that the bird does give agro to the tank, but you need to literally TRY to find instance where the bird is even useful.IMO its a waste of a spell and i would like a different one. Give us a band of ranged thugs like the brigands get <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div>

[Mulli]

<blockquote><hr>Evolution890 wrote:Agro is usually not a large problem in a well managed group. The damage from the bird blows horribly.Theirs no doubt that the bird does give agro to the tank, but you need to literally TRY to find instance where the bird is even useful.IMO its a waste of a spell and i would like a different one. Give us a band of ranged thugs like the brigands get <span>:smileytongue:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>It doesnt give agro to the tank it reduces the hate gain of any non fighter in the group.Anyhow my impressions on this spell is that its usefull, have it at master I and its doing 24% deagro. The main issue I have found is that it isnt gonna be too usefull on raid mobs with 2+ ae's as its not immune to aes. The little summoned pet that sorcerors get was made immune to ae's i think this ranger deagro pet should be made immune to ae too.

[TerriBlades]

<div>You really have to think of this as more of a distraction tactic then anything else. As stated above Master 1 is 24%, and the 25-35 DPS that hawk puts out isnt going to keep much hate off you solo after one shot, but it does come in handy for adds while grouping. Its very handy in group situations, I like it, but it really isnt all that much to write home about.</div><div> </div><div>Nesse</div><div>66 Ranger</div><div>Dirty Dozen</div><div>Oasis</div>

[Evolution8]

The explanation of the spell says that it lowers the hate of non fighter types, siphoning it to the fighter types.<div></div>

[Mulli]

<blockquote><hr>Evolution890 wrote:The explanation of the spell says that it lowers the hate of non fighter types, siphoning it to the fighter types.<div></div><hr></blockquote>My description says each time the hawk hits the mob all non fighters in the group have some of their hate siphoned towards the <b>hawk</b>. It is actually quite nice reduction in hate for 30 secs or so, the trobador deagro spell is only 40%.

[Xerias II]

<div></div><p>Hawk Dive is essentially a WEAK ROOT.  When u break it down, for soloing purposes, the Hawk Dive is the Ranger's version of a root, except that u can only cast it every 1.5 minutes, so (1) if it breaks (i.e. the bird dies, fails to hold aggro), hope your Evac is up (been using evac ALOT lately in addition to my new friend the Defensive Stance). </p><p>Now, as for the group potential of the spell:  yes, i think it may be useful in limited group situations when the wizzy can't control his aggro, if you can manage to press the hotkey while rofl . . . . and that's the real question.  I'm going to pull out my bird to save the wizzy who can't figure out how to tame his new found power and then what happens when the bird dies?  Aggro comes at ME!!!!!  THE AGGRO SHOULD DIE WITH THE BIRD, NOT TRANSFER TO ME.  Cause way it stands now, that wizzy gonna die.</p><p>"I ride ruff and tuff / my arrows stuffed / debuffed as a bust / bout to tear s hit up"  --Krii, AB</p>

[Zaviur]

<div></div>I had an enchanter say this bird kept breaking mez has anyone else had this problem?

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zaviur wrote:<div></div>I had an enchanter say this bird kept breaking mez has anyone else had this problem?<hr></blockquote>I believe the bird does damage in addition to the hate syphon effect so, yes, casting the bird on a mezzed mob would break mez.

[Zaviur]

<div></div>At adept 1 he does 5 to 7 dps but I though pets wouldn't attack a mez'd target.

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Xerias II wrote:<div></div><p>Now, as for the group potential of the spell:  yes, i think it may be useful in limited group situations when the wizzy can't control his aggro, if you can manage to press the hotkey while rofl . . . . and that's the real question.  I'm going to pull out my bird to save the wizzy who can't figure out how to tame his new found power and then what happens when the bird dies?  Aggro comes at ME!!!!!  THE AGGRO SHOULD DIE WITH THE BIRD, NOT TRANSFER TO ME.  Cause way it stands now, that wizzy gonna die.</p><hr></blockquote>:smileyvery-happy:LOL.  Bad Ranger... Baaaaaaaaad Ranger.  Made my day.

[FearDiadh]

<div>Until I can stealth in combat with this bird or something else changes it isnt going to get much use.  Well except to surprise people who didn't realize we got this.</div><div> </div><div>"OMG! RANGERS GET PETS??!??"</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Jack Silver</div><div>66 Ranger</div><div>70 Slacker</div><div>Lucan D'Lere</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dirtgirl wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">Once you have that and the hawk, I dont want to hear anyone crying about not bein able to solo even con or even low yellow mob. </font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>Right, but do you want to wait until level 65 to solo adequately? It's still a valid complaint, at least until we see our new root on the Lunge line - hoping that will make a vast difference for soloers.

[Jer_]

<div></div><p>Ehh some squishy caster type saw me soloing with it and made a rather uncalled for nerf comment about the bird to me already...</p><p>People can be really freaking stupid sometimes.</p>

[TerriBlades]

<div></div><p>LOL now thats funny... the pet really isnt all that powerful, not at a whopping 25-25 DPS at M1, however it makes for a handy solo tool provided you give the hawk a good 5 second head start to gain aggro. One of the other things that I noticed about the hawk, it tends to turn the mob, exposing the fleshy backside we love to see :o) My experiences with it have been good.</p><p>Nesse</p><p>67 Ranger / Dirty Dozen/ Oasis</p>