Level 65 ranger reporting in

[Arhan]

<div></div><div></div><div>Ok, guys I figured i'd report in after giving the expansion a week.   Since nothing has been done I am going post my thoughts.   I have been playing our class quite a bit with the new changes.  What can I say? Were watered down well below our peers.  If it wasn't for my good friends and guild i'd be quiting my ranger, and prob Everquest 2 for good.  I just have to ask why <em>all</em> of the nerfs?  The proc changes were more then enough damage to our fun class and put us well below the dps of the other dps classes.   The damage they did to our fun class defining ancient skills is unbelievable.  These new spell lines were part of the reason it was fun to play a ranger again with DoF.   I dont even use either of them now.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Stream of Arrows</strong>:</div><div>Lets start with stream.  It does about 400-650 damage which is great.  Now lets add the proc changes I can run stream for 30 seconds and I'd be lucky to see one proc of quickshot or even poison!  Lets add the delay of each shot to the mix, since now there is at least double the casting time it seems to me at least.  Anyways what this adds up to is a useless skill your better off firing a diff combat ability.  Completely unreasonable, and a waste of time to use now.</div><div><strong>Thorny Trap</strong>:</div><div>Ok, over the past week I have only used this trap for soloing since I mainly group with a Illusionist.  Anyways I got my first glimse of how useless this was in The Den of the Devourer.  Laid a trap attempted to split adds and they run right through it.   A ranger in my guild has reported this on various mobs in KoS.  I think this may apply to heroics, since with solo mobs it seems to work ok.  I am not certain though.  Lets also look at the size of the pile of sticks its half its size as it was prekos!!  I haven't even begun to look at damage it inflicts, a ranger in my guild has reported it to be doing less damage also.  Ouch...  Hopefully this is a bug.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Parry/Dodge/Interrupts</strong>:</div><div>Further rubbing our face in dirt.   Mobs can now parry our bow attacks.   I also noticed that mobs are interrupting casting a lot more in KoS.  This prob applies to all classes.  Lets talk about the stealth change of our Devitalizing Arrow line which we can no longer cast while moving.  It defiantely hurts soloers and kiters.  Devitalizing Arrow prekos has been a break or make skill when running or pulling especially if group or yourself is dying.  It hurts us...</div><div> </div><div><strong>Proc Changes</strong>:</div><div>This is where it hit us the most.  It's has always been very critical on named mobs that we land poison procs instantly on named encounters since the first few seconds is usually the hardest.  Of course now with the decreases in procs this hardly happens.  We no longer can debuff near as good.   Also as I and other rangers mentioned before 50+% of our damage is from procs alone.  I and others have prekos parses to back up this claim.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Kingdom of Skies</strong>:</div><div>The expansion itself is quite amazing to look at and it is addicting as ever.  It's quite well done with the bugs set aside.  The new signature quests, heritages, zones, graphics, and raid encounters defiantely will keep me interested and busy until next expansion.   I'd of prefered more achievement options though, and some new spell lines wouldn't hurt we only get one that I know of.  Also limiting the amount of achievement points you can have kind of sucks..  Though you are able to rechoose your aa's if u so desire but the cost to do so increases each time you want to do it.  The expansion is nicely done...I recommend it if your level 60 or higher.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Summary</strong>:</div><div>The changes really hurt us Sony.  As you can see here lots of Rangers have already retired and quit.  Let me make a few suggestions.</div><div>1)Add the ability for rangers to buff the attack ratings of group.  Remember Spirit of Predator and Strength of Tunare?  Bring those spells back so that were useful if we can not do as much damage as we use to.</div><div>2)Increase the proc rate % on Archery Stances and also Debuff poisons, so we can still do our debuffing jobs.  Leave the current damage poison % in place.</div><div>3)Stream of Arrows needs a huge overhaul.  Be it more damage or a faster fire rate.  The skill is a waste of time atm, and I don't even have it on my hotbar.</div><div>4)Return Thorny Trap to its orginal form or fix it if its broken.  Sony your rangers can not handle anymore nerfs.   There was <em>no</em> reason to nerf this.  Thorny Trap was one of my favorite skills and was quite useful all around for various situations.</div><p>Message Edited by Arhan on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:28 PM</span></p>

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">And maybe let us know when you are makin drastic changes to any and all of these skills. Or that you didn't know that you were making them and it was an unintentional side effect.</font></p><p><font color="#99ff99">Thanks for the summary man. You have pretty much nailed them all.</font></p>

[4lta]

<div></div>nice post ..well written  allthough most likely they wont read it or care they have allready forgot about the ranger problems and are moving on its a lost cause .. sony did this all for the pvp servers and wont change it back or admit they are wrong about anything as our good buddy /sarcasm Blackguard would say workin as intended thx buh bye oh and dont forget to Buy Kos !

[Whytefoxxe]

This is an excellent summary that covers most of our major issues. Please everyone keep these kind of posts on the front page by replying with your support- a simple "I agree" is fine.Just my opinion, but rants, what-if's, and pie-in-the-sky change requests seem to dilute good posts. A few posts with thousands of simple agreements makes a strong statement. You may not agree with 100% of every post, but if it makes a good argument or puts forth legitimate data, let's try and keep it in the top 20 at least.

[Jer_]

<div></div><div> <p>Amen brother A-freakin-men...</p><p> </p><p>Several other issues still need to be addressed but you hit that right on the head!</p></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Very nice post.  I really think most rangers have come to except the proc change and are learning to deal with it.  But like you my big issue with SOE is all the additional nerf's they did to our skills without notice.</p><p>Thorny Trap used to be one of my favorite skills and was enourmously helpful in solo play.  Now I get sad everytime I bother to try and use it.  The skill is a shadow of what it used to be <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>The nerf or bug on Stream is sad also but that skill was destined to fade away anyways.  From what I could tell before and after KoS the damage did not scale as you leveled.  By 65 or higher the T7 skills with their higher damage would eliminate the use of Stream.  Does suck for those in their 50's</p><p>The change to the Debilitating Arrow line flat out sucks.  It hurts both solo and group play.  For solo play it was a life saving skill that could be used to try and finish a mob if you had to make a run for it.  In group play it was the one skill you could use while repositioning because the mob turned or moved.</p><p>You missed or haven't noticed they also stealth nerf'd our Primal Agility line.  Not all that important now that we can't do alot of damage.  But still it's just another crack at the ranger class.</p><p>I could live and except the proc change alot easier if SOE would step up and reverse out all these additional nerf's they hit me with.  These are the things that make me not trust what the Dev's post.  I've learned alot of classes got hit with stealth nerf's in LU20 and I think it's just completely unacceptable and BS.  If they're going to make a change it should be made known to the players.</p><p>FIX Thorny Trap and the Devitalization line and stop trying to ruin Rangers solo play.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>I agree on KoS being very well done.  I've found it to be very engaging and entertaining.  So far it's a vast improvement over what DoF turned out to be.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Whyte, you actually have to dilute posts, or they think you are attempting to pad the #'s onna thread, and will either ignore it or lock it... Suxxors but truzzors. Now that my post is sufficiently diluted,</p><p>i agree</p><p>:smileyvery-happy:</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta 62 ranga Nek</p>

[xfres]

<div>Don't forget, they also fixed our offense stance so our parry decreases drastically now.  I know I have felt a major difference in damage done to me when I bring an add to the group on accident or if I pull aggro.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Shaulin Dolamite]

<div>Great post Arhan, hope some SOE peeps read it and take it for what it is.</div>

[Arhan]

<div>thanks if you guys it is pretty disappointing when they fix other 1st classes but do not even look into ours since its no secret rangers are pretty [Removed for Content] off atm...  How many pages of threads does it take before sony gets a clue?  Lets see last class fixes....</div><div>Inquisitor changes:- Inquisitor reactive heal spells will now correctly scale will scroll upgrades.Necromancer changes:- Necromancers who use the Rending Frenzy line of pet buffs: Your pet should once again be able to hold aggro.Templar changes:- Templar reactive heal spells will now correctly scale will scrollupgrades.</div><div> </div><div>I defiantely think soe hates rangerrs....<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  How many pages does it take?</div>

[Jaack Daniels]

<div></div>excellent post. procs still need to be increased for our semi slow casting ability compared to the number of arrows we launch but neither here nor there at this point we need some kind of boost. swashies and pallies were kickin my keester in dps tonight. not a pleasant feeling. although we all had a good laugh at the numbers when a fury beat me lol.

[Zabumt]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arhan wrote:<div>thanks if you guys it is pretty disappointing when they fix other 1st classes but do not even look into ours since its no secret rangers are pretty [Removed for Content] off atm...  How many pages of threads does it take before sony gets a clue?  Lets see last class fixes....</div><div>Inquisitor changes:- Inquisitor reactive heal spells will now correctly scale will scroll upgrades.Necromancer changes:- Necromancers who use the Rending Frenzy line of pet buffs: Your pet should once again be able to hold aggro.Templar changes:- Templar reactive heal spells will now correctly scale will scrollupgrades.</div><div> </div><div>I defiantely think soe hates rangerrs....<img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  How many pages does it take?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Woah there Arhan!  2 of the 3 classes there are clerics.  Do you even realize how far us clerics are in the dirt?  We healed, with our reactives, for an entire xp bonus weekend at app2 level!  This might not sound like much until you consider that a blue-yellow con solo mob will easily eat through your reactives at this spell level.  Not to mention trying to keep a group MT alive against reasonably challenging content heh.</p><p>The hotfix for clerics was NEEDED.  Not because it was a fix to some adjustment they made.  But, because it was a fix to a bug they introduced.  Even under normal circumstances, us clerics have to work at keeping up with other classes hps numbers and we don't even come close to their dps.</p><p>In other words, bringing a cleric fix into your argument is NEVER the solution hehe.</p><p> </p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><p>yep, you hit it right on. i can live with less procs (although they are pretty low now...). but the other stuff? why?</p><p>i had fun with thorny trap. now... well, perhaps i'll try it out sometimes. but i'm always expecting it to not work well. no fun.</p><p>stream of arrows: i hit 55 recently. until LU19/20 i was eager to experience it. after i still thought it to be a goal to get it. now i have it. and used it once on a raid. boy, was i dissapointed...</p><p>don't like the no more movingon debilitating arrow line either. was at least one to get in while backing up during pull.</p><p>parry/dodge/interupts: noticed the same. seems way too much now.</p><p>procs: yes, would be great if we could rely more on our debuff through poison function. right now it's kind of fluff. it can happen, but don't count on the ranger anymore for debuff poisons.</p><p>to have some damage lowered i can understand. i can still solo ok. the damge in grp/raids isn't up to par, but whatever, hope they'll tweak damage a bit.but also having all the fun whacked out of some abilities and some other obscure changes seems a bit much. what's up with that?</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[damahra]

<div>while I am  by no means up in caliber of the OP,  (only lvl 50) I feel  the pain  too, after struggling to work  on a grifter quest last nite and practically getting my butt handed to me on a platter by blues, didn't do too bad, on the singles, was  the multiples that took me down a bit, but on the white ^ final mobs, one took me to around 30%, last one took me to 9%, if it wasn't for my armor healing me I would have died from the dot the mob put on me.  While at the same time, a guildie said in guild chat "just  killed a 69^ mob (can't rememer what zone he was  in, somewhere  in  KoS) [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]  ambushers"   he's  a lvl  62 conj.   that's  7 levels BELOW the mob he just killed.  and I can barely kill a mob that's even to me?  what's  wrong with that  picture?</div>

[baore]

<div></div><p>Has anyone earned enough Achievment Skill points to see if that helps offset the damage?</p><p>I've only gotten 3 so far, so I can't tell if it helps much.</p><p> </p><p>I don't mind the proc nerfing too much, but I'd sure like to be able to solo things a little tougher than blue(on average).  I think we need effective rooting and slowing type spell, even if they only last a couple seconds or so.  This would be a huge help for me anyway.</p><p> </p><p>Thanks,</p><p>Hydroc</p>

[dbmoreland]

Easy, what is wrong is the Conj is now overpowered and will be nerfed with LU21. NO ONE, not rangers, not conj, not wizards, not ANYONE should be taking out an ORANGE UP ARROW mob EASILY. Now if he was using EVERY trick in the book, had super good stuff and this was is 10th try at the mob then fine he deserves a win every once in a while, maybe. As for your grifter quest up arrow white mob, was this the first time you tried him? Were you able to use EVERY ability you have, or because you were fighting in a phone booth you were severly handicaped. If this was the first time and you were playing at a handicap than what the heck are you complaining about? You WON against an "even chance" "good fight" mob. This is as it should be. The conj NO (unless like I said this was attempt #10 with great gear), you YES (esp if this was your first attempt). I do these grifter quests all of the time because I find them a challenge. It took me a few tries to figure out the right stratagy to use to kill these mobs. That are TOUGH. That is why they are fun.<div></div>

[pharacyde]

<div></div><p>Nice post, the changes hurt is but i'll comment a few things I thought of. And the main point is that there are things that changed and you didn't mention.</p><p>First of all there is something as critical hits now. We have AA's and it changed the combat mechanics alot. This is the main thing you have to remember. Now I will make some of my personal thoughts in red through your post.</p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Arhan wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Ok, guys I figured i'd report in after giving the expansion a week.   Since nothing has been done I am going post my thoughts.   I have been playing our class quite a bit with the new changes.  What can I say? Were watered down well below our peers.  If it wasn't for my good friends and guild i'd be quiting my ranger, and prob Everquest 2 for good.  I just have to ask why <em>all</em> of the nerfs?  The proc changes were more then enough damage to our fun class and put us well below the dps of the other dps classes.   The damage they did to our fun class defining ancient skills is unbelievable.  These new spell lines were part of the reason it was fun to play a ranger again with DoF.   I dont even use either of them now.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Stream of Arrows</strong>:</div><div>Lets start with stream.  It does about 400-650 damage which is great.  Now lets add the proc changes I can run stream for 30 seconds and I'd be lucky to see one proc of quickshot or even poison!  Lets add the delay of each shot to the mix, since now there is at least double the casting time it seems to me at least.  Anyways what this adds up to is a useless skill your better off firing a diff combat ability.  Completely unreasonable, and a waste of time to use now.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">I totaly agree on this one, stream of arrows is pretty useless. The only situation I might see useing it, is when you can not go melee with a mob and all your ranged CA's are in refresh mode. I think that will never happen.</font></div><div><strong>Thorny Trap</strong>:</div><div>Ok, over the past week I have only used this trap for soloing since I mainly group with a Illusionist.  Anyways I got my first glimse of how useless this was in The Den of the Devourer.  Laid a trap attempted to split adds and they run right through it.   A ranger in my guild has reported this on various mobs in KoS.  I think this may apply to heroics, since with solo mobs it seems to work ok.  I am not certain though.  Lets also look at the size of the pile of sticks its half its size as it was prekos!!  I haven't even begun to look at damage it inflicts, a ranger in my guild has reported it to be doing less damage also.  Ouch...  Hopefully this is a bug.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">I noticed the same thing. I think it only happens with flying encounters only in KoS. I know harpies in DoF get trapped. And I know running mobs get trapped in KoS alos, but not all flying mobs in KoS do.</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Parry/Dodge/Interrupts</strong>:</div><div>Further rubbing our face in dirt.   Mobs can now parry our bow attacks.   I also noticed that mobs are interrupting casting a lot more in KoS.  This prob applies to all classes.  Lets talk about the stealth change of our Devitalizing Arrow line which we can no longer cast while moving.  It defiantely hurts soloers and kiters.  Devitalizing Arrow prekos has been a break or make skill when running or pulling especially if group or yourself is dying.  It hurts us...</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">It defenately hurst for soloing, but I raided and grouped alot with classes that debuff alot (swash for example) and when they do, I didn't too much trouble with it. My guess they want you to start debuffing mobs more when needed. It's maybe just a playstyle change for grouping but it's defenately a problem for solo'ing.</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Proc Changes</strong>:</div><div>This is where it hit us the most.  It's has always been very critical on named mobs that we land poison procs instantly on named encounters since the first few seconds is usually the hardest.  Of course now with the decreases in procs this hardly happens.  We no longer can debuff near as good.   Also as I and other rangers mentioned before 50+% of our damage is from procs alone.  I and others have prekos parses to back up this claim.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Ok I feel your pain. But imagine the following thing. What if they didn't change the proc balancing. What if the critical hits did use that same formula for proccing. That would mean we would do critical hits all day long, seven days a week. That's the main reason I think they had to nerf it. Blackguard/MG didn't go into detail on it, but they mentioned some huge dps parsers. The only way I could see that happen is with the critical changes and choosing the AA's in such way to get the most upgrades for critical hits proc rates. I think alot of us hoped for another fix but I can live with this one, but that's just me.</font> </div><div> </div><div><strong>Kingdom of Skies</strong>:</div><div>The expansion itself is quite amazing to look at and it is addicting as ever.  It's quite well done with the bugs set aside.  The new signature quests, heritages, zones, graphics, and raid encounters defiantely will keep me interested and busy until next expansion.   I'd of prefered more achievement options though, and some new spell lines wouldn't hurt we only get one that I know of.  Also limiting the amount of achievement points you can have kind of sucks..  Though you are able to rechoose your aa's if u so desire but the cost to do so increases each time you want to do it.  The expansion is nicely done...I recommend it if your level 60 or higher.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">Expansion rocks !</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Summary</strong>:</div><div>The changes really hurt us Sony.  As you can see here lots of Rangers have already retired and quit.  Let me make a few suggestions.</div><div>1)Add the ability for rangers to buff the attack ratings of group.  Remember Spirit of Predator and Strength of Tunare?  Bring those spells back so that were useful if we can not do as much damage as we use to.</div><div>2)Increase the proc rate % on Archery Stances and also Debuff poisons, so we can still do our debuffing jobs.  Leave the current damage poison % in place.</div><div>3)Stream of Arrows needs a huge overhaul.  Be it more damage or a faster fire rate.  The skill is a waste of time atm, and I don't even have it on my hotbar.</div><div>4)Return Thorny Trap to its orginal form or fix it if its broken.  Sony your rangers can not handle anymore nerfs.   There was <em>no</em> reason to nerf this.  Thorny Trap was one of my favorite skills and was quite useful all around for various situations.</div><p>Message Edited by Arhan on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:28 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree that the changes hurt us the most for soloing. Grouping is still ok. Grouping is so bad right now, that I don't even bother anymore <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> The only thing that allows me to solo harder mobs a bit is hawk dive. But that's about it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p> </p>

[ADW123]

<div></div><div>I agree. Thing that bothers me the most about the whole ordeal is not the base nerfs that they actually listed in update notes but all stealth nerfs that they didn't even have the balls to tells us about. I would really like to know why they mentioned nothing about these or if they were even intented.</div><div> </div><div>This update is really the hardest hit the ranger class has ever taken and we have yet to get a single post on our forums explaining any of it to us or atleast letting us know that they were working on certain aspects, whether we were working as intended or what not. After a nerf of this magnitute they should've been all over this forum posting feedback to us.</div><div> </div><div>The problem is they know if they come around they are going to get hammered by all the infuriated people, but they need to post something to calm the masses on this. Give us anything...</div><div> </div><div>Sacrifice</div><div>62 Ranger</div><div>Unrest</div><p>Message Edited by ADW123 on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:55 AM</span></p>

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">this makes me sad.....</font></p><p></p><span><blockquote><hr>Thundy wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>Blackguard wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>BrickyardRacer wrote:<div>Why are Kingdom of Sky zones not instanced?</div><hr></blockquote>Because they are massive and can handle the number of people who are in them. We're working on resolving the lag issues in there now, but they are physically capable of holding as many people are there are right now.</span><div></div><hr></blockquote>Then I have two questions.1) Does this mean that instancing is actually enabled on these, and when they reach a certain population, will instance themselves?2) No offense, but when people point to you and say that you are out of touch, this is why. Your statement is simply just not true in KoS. It is not just about lag (though that is a part of it). I suggest looking at your numbers more closely. I have a feeling that your answer to this would be "we have the numbers in hand and etc. etc." but that isn't really an acceptable answer. Some hard data would be nice.I appreciate your time.</span></div><p>Message Edited by Thundy on <span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-24-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">01:33 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>1) I believe it is not currently enabled on these zones, the last I checked.<font color="#ffff00">2) I'll admit to being out of touch with KoS on live servers, because I'm getting myself owned on Nagafen pretty repeatedly at the moment instead of playing my PvE character. <img width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16">But anyway, I'll see what others think about instancing these zones temporarily, at least until the population spreads out a bit.</font></span><div></div><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder</font></p><span><span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-24-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">02:50 </span></span>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><span><font color="#ffff00">2) I'll admit to being out of touch with KoS on live servers, because I'm getting myself owned on Nagafen pretty repeatedly at the moment instead of playing my PvE character. <img width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16">But anyway, I'll see what others think about instancing these zones temporarily, at least until the population spreads out a bit.</font></span><div></div><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder</font></p><span><span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-24-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">02:50 </span></span><hr></blockquote><p>/sarcasim alert!WHA! I thought for sure he would be playing his ranger character to check out how badly we got hit like he said he would.</p><p>Unless of course the PvE charatcer he is refering too is a ranger.</p>

[Moncreat]

<div></div><p>One thing that really shocks me is one that you said.  I can not believe how many mobs can deflect, parry, riposte so many of my CA's and Arrow CA's.  Now I can understand something 5 levels above me doing this maybe 50 to 60% of time ( well not really but I am being nice) but 98% of the time and even if the mob is a solo mob.  It was funny, I parsed a group of 60s and 61s killing level 66 and 67 solo mobs with no arrows.   Highest DPS was the Conjurors pet at 107dps.   My ranger was doing like 23dps.  LOL and as I said I understand those mobs were several levels above us.</p><p> </p><p>My sniper shot has been parried, missed, deflected over 60% of the time and on mobs that were even con heroics or 1 to 2 levels higher.  I was standing behind them when this happened also.</p><p> </p><p>I think if the  solo mobs 4 - 5 levels above us can deflect our shots 80 - 90% of the time then the mobs 4 or 5 levels below us should not be able to hit us 80 - 90% of the time.  =)</p>

[Kasm]

<div>Here is a stupid question but do you guys think most of the stealth nerfs are a result of PvP?  I mean do those guys have the same set of rules as us or are we now forced to play by their rules?  I mean logically you would think there would be two sets of rules in which CA's work.  They should have thiers and PvE should have thier own but maybe I am asking too much for that to be the case.  And if it is only one set of rules then screw the PvP servers for screwing us.</div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kasman wrote:<div>Here is a stupid question but do you guys think most of the stealth nerfs are a result of PvP?  I mean do those guys have the same set of rules as us or are we now forced to play by their rules?  I mean logically you would think there would be two sets of rules in which CA's work.  They should have thiers and PvE should have thier own but maybe I am asking too much for that to be the case.  And if it is only one set of rules then screw the PvP servers for screwing us.</div><hr></blockquote>I alot of people are thinking this, but SoE keeps denying it left and right.

[Star]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Arhan wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Ok, guys I figured i'd report in after giving the expansion a week.   Since nothing has been done I am going post my thoughts.   I have been playing our class quite a bit with the new changes.  What can I say? Were watered down well below our peers.  If it wasn't for my good friends and guild i'd be quiting my ranger, and prob Everquest 2 for good.  I just have to ask why <em>all</em> of the nerfs?  The proc changes were more then enough damage to our fun class and put us well below the dps of the other dps classes.   The damage they did to our fun class defining ancient skills is unbelievable.  These new spell lines were part of the reason it was fun to play a ranger again with DoF.   I dont even use either of them now.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Stream of Arrows</strong>:</div><div>Lets start with stream.  It does about 400-650 damage which is great.  Now lets add the proc changes I can run stream for 30 seconds and I'd be lucky to see one proc of quickshot or even poison!  Lets add the delay of each shot to the mix, since now there is at least double the casting time it seems to me at least.  Anyways what this adds up to is a useless skill your better off firing a diff combat ability.  Completely unreasonable, and a waste of time to use now.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">Totally agree with this. Stream has become the skill I only use if I've used everything else (including melee skills). Kinda sad for an "Ancient Teaching" spell. I've watched parses where I opened up with this right off the bat just to see what it can do, parses just about 200 with my Adept 3.</font></div><div><strong>Thorny Trap</strong>:</div><div>Ok, over the past week I have only used this trap for soloing since I mainly group with a Illusionist.  Anyways I got my first glimse of how useless this was in The Den of the Devourer.  Laid a trap attempted to split adds and they run right through it.   A ranger in my guild has reported this on various mobs in KoS.  I think this may apply to heroics, since with solo mobs it seems to work ok.  I am not certain though.  Lets also look at the size of the pile of sticks its half its size as it was prekos!!  I haven't even begun to look at damage it inflicts, a ranger in my guild has reported it to be doing less damage also.  Ouch...  Hopefully this is a bug.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">Agree here also. This has denfinately been changed and I didn't see an update note about that. It's useful but only in open areas with solid pathing. I've also noticed that it seems to want to sit on the lowest point of uneven ground rather than the highest. Maybe in places with uneven ground the trap sits too low and mobs "run over" it.</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Parry/Dodge/Interrupts</strong>:</div><div>Further rubbing our face in dirt.   Mobs can now parry our bow attacks.   I also noticed that mobs are interrupting casting a lot more in KoS.  This prob applies to all classes.  Lets talk about the stealth change of our Devitalizing Arrow line which we can no longer cast while moving.  It defiantely hurts soloers and kiters.  Devitalizing Arrow prekos has been a break or make skill when running or pulling especially if group or yourself is dying.  It hurts us...</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">I think mobs parrying our bow attack isn't such a bad thing and Devitalizing Arrow being cast on the run was obviously a bug. I thought that since I noticed that it did not need to be cast standing still like my other CAs after they made that change. However, in the face of the other changes it does feel like insult to injury.</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Proc Changes</strong>:</div><div>This is where it hit us the most.  It's has always been very critical on named mobs that we land poison procs instantly on named encounters since the first few seconds is usually the hardest.  Of course now with the decreases in procs this hardly happens.  We no longer can debuff near as good.   Also as I and other rangers mentioned before 50+% of our damage is from procs alone.  I and others have prekos parses to back up this claim.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">I'm less concerned myself about the first few seconds. I use snipers or point blank shot for that now. The 4 second Knockback is useful enough. I'm more concerned about our total damage out put in the long term.</font></div><div> </div><div><strong>Kingdom of Skies</strong>:</div><div>The expansion itself is quite amazing to look at and it is addicting as ever.  It's quite well done with the bugs set aside.  The new signature quests, heritages, zones, graphics, and raid encounters defiantely will keep me interested and busy until next expansion.   I'd of prefered more achievement options though, and some new spell lines wouldn't hurt we only get one that I know of.  Also limiting the amount of achievement points you can have kind of sucks..  Though you are able to rechoose your aa's if u so desire but the cost to do so increases each time you want to do it.  The expansion is nicely done...I recommend it if your level 60 or higher.</div><div> </div><div><strong>Summary</strong>:</div><div>The changes really hurt us Sony.  As you can see here lots of Rangers have already retired and quit.  Let me make a few suggestions.</div><div>1)Add the ability for rangers to buff the attack ratings of group.  Remember Spirit of Predator and Strength of Tunare?  Bring those spells back so that were useful if we can not do as much damage as we use to.</div><div>2)Increase the proc rate % on Archery Stances and also Debuff poisons, so we can still do our debuffing jobs.  Leave the current damage poison % in place.</div><div>3)Stream of Arrows needs a huge overhaul.  Be it more damage or a faster fire rate.  The skill is a waste of time atm, and I don't even have it on my hotbar.</div><div>4)Return Thorny Trap to its orginal form or fix it if its broken.  Sony your rangers can not handle anymore nerfs.   There was <em>no</em> reason to nerf this.  Thorny Trap was one of my favorite skills and was quite useful all around for various situations.</div><p>Message Edited by Arhan on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:28 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>

[Vacan]

<div></div><div></div><p>I feel that there are a bunch of things that hit us all at once and that SoE didn't take them into account when the made some intentional changes to Ranger:</p><p>They changed us to have less options and CA's in melee with LU13</p><p>They shorted the time it takes for mobs to get to us when we start shooting at them so now we get less shots before they are in melee range</p><p>They changed the way mobs fight and set them up to use skills like the players ( this is where the parrying and blocking and such comes from ).</p><p>Then they changed ranged attacks by setting them up to be parried, blocked, etc  on top of missing. This was done for PVP in my mind. (by the way hidden shoot should seldom get parried or block especially from the back)</p><p>They then reduced our damage by reducing our procs to one hand.</p><p>Then they changed procs to only the first arrow on multi arrow attacks. ( our melee effectiveness got reduced because of the proc issue) This also made us less likely to be able to stun or debuff a mob. WHy? because if it doesn't proc no debuff! Spells don't have this issue. Yes they can get resisted but they land way more often.</p><p>They also changed our attacks that could be done while moving.</p><p>They increased the time it takes to make the bow shots.</p><p>They reduced our trap to almost worthless ( note at low levels we should have something like trap to keep the mobs off us). I've never found that my snares helped me get another shot off.</p><p>I know I've missed some but the sum totals makes us reduced to crap for damage and tough to solo.</p><p>They nerfed stream to worthless. I don't know why because with all the procs gone it would be about right now.</p><p>Last we are not Rangers any more but scouts that can shoot a bow somewhat. Now with the lag I stopped playing because I die to much now that they merged my server with another one.</p><p>This list is for SoE and myself as I know most of you already know this:</p><p> </p><p>By the way I just reached level 57 when this hit and hadn't gotten stream until just before LU 20 hit. I didn't get the spell made until just after and wish I never had.</p><p>Message Edited by Vacan on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:15 PM</span></p>

[A]

<div></div><p>Agree with stream, at least the long casting time issue associated with it ( it's not every 1.5 second like it's supposed to be). Stream procs seem ok otherwise and in line with what I would expect..</p><p>Not so concerned about our capacity to debuff mobs with poison as I'm now using a 9 second delay bow with almost guarantee my first ranged attack will proc poisons ( and that attack comes right with the first bow CA..)....</p><p> </p>

[hieronym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><p>Not so concerned about our capacity to debuff mobs with poison as I'm now using a 9 second delay bow with almost guarantee my first ranged attack will proc poisons ( and that attack comes right with the first bow CA..)....</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>The time delay of the weapon has no effect on proccing now so you might want to change to a quicker bow, with that you might get a few more auto ranged shots off and increase your DPS a bit over the course of a fight

[Merkad]

I think you are confused there hieronymus. The delay of the weapon does matter for procs on auto attack. However, it does not matter for CAs. Ail is talking about how auto attack triggers an immediate shot as soon as your first CA goes off (unless you have something queued).This is evident and easily tested, simply fire off a few rounds auto attack and then use a few CAs, one will proc alot more.Merkades, 63rd Ranger.Siege, Najena.

[Serakk]

<div></div><p>Well thought out and written Arhan,hits all the major flaws that are plaguing the Ranger class atm. I have been /feedback'ing every day ,praying for a middle ground can be reached. Denerf our one on the run archery spell line,fix stream or give us a trap that actually works I have left more than a dozen on the ground in past two days,and just gave up using the blasted thing.</p><p>As far as our AA line,someone asked about it,I'm not sure but just looking at the lines I dont think being maxed in 2 lines of our tree would be equivalent of helping our utility or Dps,utility I know it wouldnt but I had hopes for DPS,other rangers can chime in on this I am sure. I am on the move rate increase portion of our AGI branch and I think so far I love the point blankshot another stun is a lifesaver if the tank is about to drop and you are sure of a wipe,pop that PBS and healer gets a couple heals off and you're back in business.</p><p> </p><p>The  parry/dodge is insanely damaging,felt like a mage a couple times when I got aggro drop so darn fast it's not even funny,as I was in offensive stance I switched quickly but [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if you don't drop fast.</p><p>KoS is great,it's everything I wanted it to be but my class could use a little help,already rerolled a monk,but I'm a masochist and sticking with my ranger.</p>

[hieronym]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Merkades wrote:I think you are confused there hieronymus. Ail is talking about how auto attack triggers an immediate shot as soon as your first CA goes off (unless you have something queued).Merkades, 63rd Ranger.Siege, Najena.<hr></blockquote>ah indeed i am, as usual didnt read the post 100 percent before replying...

[A]

<blockquote><hr>hieronymus wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><p>Not so concerned about our capacity to debuff mobs with poison as I'm now using a 9 second delay bow with almost guarantee my first ranged attack will proc poisons ( and that attack comes right with the first bow CA..)....</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>The time delay of the weapon has no effect on proccing now so you might want to change to a quicker bow, with that you might get a few more auto ranged shots off and increase your DPS a bit over the course of a fight<hr></blockquote><p>Procs on auto attack are still based on weapon delay....</p><p>And hitting more often doesn't mean more dps , dps = Damage per second, this bow happens to be the higher dps bow I can get my hands on right now...........</p>