You must Unlearn What you have Learned.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div><p>Not to sound arrogant, and there is still a long way to go. But I have a feeling a lot of people are trying to use old ranger tactics and expect the same numbers then complain how broken we are when they can't do anything.</p><p>Ive been adapting a lot and had to completely change my playstyle in order to maintain decent dps. I can no longer spam combat arts, hit stream and repeat and get top dps with little effort.</p><p>I need to melee, I need to debuff, apply dot's ,use short term buffs and utilize tier appropriate arrows.</p><p>Post Lu20 Rangering isn't a walk in the park, you have to actively be moving dodgeing weaving to attain some dps, I think a lot of people got lazy post Lu13 and just stopped meleeing all together. I used to use my melee skills a ton before LU13, stopped using them completely after and now have gone back to using them again.</p><p> </p><p>I was parsing 400dps last night, JUST FROM MELEE damage and arts in group. We did a couple fights where I used no bow skills (i.e any skill that uses an arrow)</p><p>Everyone needs to breath and give it some time instead of automatically writing off these changes as game breaking, could we use adjustment? Of course everyone could. Am I happy with our DPS? Not particularly but I'm managing to make the best of it and I have to say Im saddened to see rangers spamming 7 different forums like sorcerors do with the same posts demanding fixes and ranting. It really leaves a sour taste in my mouth to see such little restraint and control on the parts of our community.</p><p>So to all the Doomsayers and such please give it some time to settle in, a LOT and I mean a LOT of rangers still haven't learned how to replay the class and until they do you will see subpar DPS across the board. When the raids start rolling in we might be able to get a more accurate view of overall DPS.</p><p> </p><p>p.s I know we aren't assasins, but we aren't an archer class either, While the majority of our attacks are Bow based we have melee skills and will need to utilize them in order to function at maximum effectiveness, just like every other class has to.</p></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div>i agree, its simply the fact that bow attacks are useless, and they make up far more than 50% of our ca's.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>And I'll add one more thing that my Guildmate Ranger said.</p><p>"Before Bow Auto Attack was what you did inbetween Combat Arts, now combat arts are what you do inbetween Autoattack"</p><p>I'm finding a much smoother pace to DPS when I time my combat arts inbetween bow shots and making sure it goes off every 6/7 seconds. Meleeing is must now to maintain decent DPS. Stream of Arrows has gone from one of our Best skills, to one of our worst.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div>I will do as u say, chaos-san.

[BedlamX]

<div></div><p>That is a good Idea for some. But I didnt roll a ranger in 2004 not to use my bow. I would have rolled a swashy or an assassin if I wanted to melee close up 90% of the time. Its an insult to me you and the ranger class itself that we are forced into it.</p><p> </p><p>BedlamX</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>I never said melee all the time did I? I said use all the skills available to you. We have too many melee skills to just write them off and then people wonder why we can't dps.</p><p>You guys wanted to know how to get high dps as a ranger, you got it.</p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>I'd love to use tier appropriate arrows but the damm jewelers are all either slacking or hiding <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  I even have a moonstone just waiting to be turned into adept 3 reclaimed arrows.  Guildy already has it and grizzle's bow so I know how much it would add.  Being stuck using T5 arrows instead of T7 is no fun.</p><p>I do think it will be hard on rangers in their 50's.  That's the one level gap they will not be able to summon tier appropriate arrows.  They really need to redo the summon arrow skills to go up every 10 levels instead of 14 like the other skills.  Summoned arrows skips from T5 to T7 and just screws over rangers from 50-60.</p><p> </p>

[Jay]

<div></div><div></div><p>I agree that we have to modify our playstyles and basically relearn the "new" ranger from the ground up. I don't think this prescription is one that a lot of people want to use, though. Props to Khalan for taking his time to pass on the experience, but unfortunately these are workarounds at best. These are "how to get the best out of your current class," and that's good - cuz we need to do our best with what we got - but most of us don't even want to play the new "Rassassin" class.</p><p>Anyway, I think we all agree that this isn't exactly what we signed up for - melee autoattack with the occasional bow CA thrown in for flavor - but thanks to Khal for posting the ideas about new tactics. We'll need them for the forseeable future, unfortunately.</p><p>EDIT: Crych, it's worse than 50-60, given that you don't get the new summoned arrows until a ways into T7. I'm 61 and I'm still stuck using freakin' fulginate. It's ridiculous.</p><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:25 PM</span></p>

[KudLenka]

let me say few things as a ranger who started playing after LU19 and has only 80 hours of play as a ranger of 1000+ hours in the game and as a person with some knowledge of medieval combat history and experience in historical fencing and archery.1, as a gamer in a MMORPG: Rangers are given ranged and melee skills since day 1. Not using big part of your skills is decision of a player. The devs only offer tools (combat arts) and its up to the player how to use them. You can still hold on shooting arrows only as its your choice (and more viable with point blank shot) or you can be more effective using all of skills at your disposal. And i say it even i enjoyed enourmously the ability to kill a mob with few ranged combat arts befoe it got to me.2, as a history fan: The most famous bow users of all times were always trained in close combat. Take the great mongols, ancient egyptians or the mbest known english archers - all of them were using swords/sabres/daggers as well as their bows. English archers were trained equally in archery and swordsmanship. Their expertise in both made them the most valuable military force of their time (and they were paid the best too).that should be enough to prove a point but since we are in a fantasy game, i will add one more point. Take the ranger/strider archetype -Aragorn of Lord of the Rings. What was the main weapon of this uber-ranger? Yes, his legendary sword.The choice is up to individual. With AAs we have even more options to play in style we preffer. Some ways may be harsher and some mey be easier. Just do not say rangers hsould not use melee skills because its not part of being a ranger.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><div></div>Umm, if the French knights at Agincourt had been able to close with the English longbowmen, the bowmen would have been slaughtered!<p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><p>So basically, I have to forget that we ever did decent DPS?</p><p>I wont forget, I will let my account expire...</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><p>I don't mean use melee autoattack either, I'm 100% bow autoattack almost all the time.</p><p> </p><p>But let me ask you guys all an honest question.</p><p>We Have 6-7 Melee Skills that can be used in groups.</p><p>Rip Line (DD)</p><p>Blazing Thrust Line (DD)</p><p>Mortal Reminder Line (Dot)</p><p>Lunging Blade Line (DoT)</p><p>Tangle Flame Line (Backstab, Need's Stealth)</p><p>Longblade Line (Backstab, Put's you into stealth)</p><p>Ranger's Blade Line (Big Back stab, need's stealth).</p><p> </p><p>If your a ranger and didn't use these at all ever before LU20, raise your hand.</p><p> </p><p>/raises hand</p><p> </p><p>I could get 1400DPS on a raid, and Not use 7 of my Damage Based Skills, I could Outdps Every other tier 1 class with only half my skills.</p><p>No other class can make that claim now or ever, no other class could get away with only using half their abilities and people got USED to it.</p><p>People are used to not "Ever meleeing" as a ranger, Rangers never melee "I" Used to post. I told people I never use melee skills and meleeing as a ranger is dumb, you get more dps from range.</p><p>That is not true any longer, we need to use all our skills, melee, ranged etc.</p><p>How many people used Brutal Instinct/Haste and Focus fire short term buffs before LU20?</p><p>I know I didn't and I still got top DPS every fight without ever needing any of my short term buffs.</p><p>Do we need adjusment still? Absolutely, but not the the extent some are claiming.</p><p>Once people have learned to play the "New Ranger" (Wether we like it or not, hell I wish I never had to melee) we will be able to understand where we stand a lot better.</p><p> </p>

[KudLenka]

<blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><div></div>Umm, if the French knights at Agincourt had been able to close with the English longbowmen, the bowmen would have been slaughtered!<p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>That was a nice one, Mary.I will not argue the tactics of english and french armies at that time. There is no reason to. Distance between warring parties is always an advantage to ranged weapon users and so it is in EverQuest 2. If you gather a full group of rangers, i seriously doubt that there will be many heroic creatures who will live long enough to hit the members of the group.I do not imply that rangers are stronger at close combat, their advantage is the damage they can deal before their enemies hit them. I only try to say that its "natural" for a ranger to finish off an enemy once it gets too close. "Bow only" is simply not "the only" or "the only right" way to play a ranger.

[Jayad]

<div></div><div>I'm not playing anymore, but using the Auto-attack stuff requires high tier (expensive) arrows.  You use more arrows than you can summon, so isn't that bad even if it were the same DPS?  Not only do you get hit on poisons but also ammo.</div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><div></div>Umm, if the French knights at Agincourt had been able to close with the English longbowmen, the bowmen would have been slaughtered!<p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:36 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>But that is why we are the Ranger class and not the "Archer" Class.

[Stormhawk]

<div></div>I've personally reverted back to my playstyle pre-LU13 because that is what we are again.  It works for the most part, if you can pull that playstyle from the back of your mind. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />In terms of soloing I haven't had any issues taking on yellow con evens or white con ^.  You just have to be sneaky and understand how your skills actually work.  2 second Cheap Shot on a ^ con sucks but you can still manage a stealth combo attack from that if you are fast enough.  Even with KoS lag I'm hitting the mark 75% of the time but don't expect to be able to tag the mob with Dire Blade.  You must use Tangleflame for reliablity purposes.  Brutal Instinct is freaking love.  Use it when you can if you need the extra firepower.  USE THORNY TRAP.  This skill can turn a close fight into a cake walk.  Understand what it offers and plan your arts accordingly around the use of the trap.  Like Khalan pointed out, DoT early.  I personally end my first HO with a DoT.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Stormhawk on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:57 AM</span></p>

[tweety1972]

<div></div><p>Now I missed out on a lot of the poison benifits that we had because I started trolling these boards too late. Now solo I use alot of melee arts waiting for cheap shot to refresh, then back up for 1 to 3 (if I am lucky and have the right ones up) bow CA's.</p><p>Group dps is something I don't understand, We have positional CA's that require us to be behind the target so we can get closer to the back of the enemy without worying about frontal AoE atacks right? If you edge closer you can find the gap where all combat arts are available (melee and bow) to maximise your dps, why would this be a problem?</p><p>Poisons still proc some and being a lower level (35) ranger missing some of the bigger seperator CA's might make a big difference but I can still make the health bar drop conciderably faster than any other person in most groups I am with. Timing helps alot with auto attack continuing to help up dps (starting a CA right after the AA fires) now I have to get someone with a parser to travel with me and check my dps to see how bad it may be.</p>

[Whytefoxxe]

What i'm personally tired of is the major overhauls. We started out as melee with decent defensive capabilities and lousy ranged, save kiting. Then we went 180 degrees from that: lost the kiting, lost the defensive, lost some meleee and became bow casters. Now we lose the bow and are left with our already weak melee and mitigation.Can we figure out a way to milk more DPS out? Sure, and I really do appreciate the OPs point, but that doesn't change the fact that we are playing a persistent character is a world where the rules keep changing and we are left trying to relearn and re-equip and re-strategize... and that goes for any class.There are always ways for more DPS. What reanger doesn't know about the stun, run behind the mob, longshank, crippling blade combo. Don't tell me that SOE ever intended that to be used in such a manner. If players figure tactics out like that, so be it, but this type of acrobatic play shouldn't be the norm, nor should we be qualified as one tier or another by it.This is ENTERTAINMENT, not work. I shouldn't need to solve differential equations to be able to kill a freaking mob. Forcing one class to work twice as hard to kill anything seems like much more of a balance issue that doing too much DPS, doesn't it?Tuning is one thing. Radical changes to playstyle that force me to "unlearn what I have learned" are not a normal part of a mature game. I'm not playing EQ to start a new character every major update, and I especially don't appreciate these changes coming with a new expansion.I can't tell SOE what will make me happy at this point. This entire class seems so confused now that I doubt it will ever be sorted out so that the CAs, abilities and DPS congeal back into some sort of themed class that isn't a lukewarm combination of several others-- with track.This last change is causing a lot of verteran EQ1 and 2 players to sincerely re-evaluate EQ2 as an investment in time and money. I don't care what's balanced, right or wrong, or even what DPS I'm doing at this point. All I know is that after the last patch, EQ2 hasn't been fun, and that's all that matters to me.I've got a lot of time invested in multiple characters, and I'm always willing to give them the benefit of the doubt for a week or two. With that said, however, my 6 accounts will be gone if this isn't resolved in some manner that makes this game fun again, soon. If this happens to one class, it will happen to others. I'd rather be elsewhere by then.

[Kasm]

<div>I need to melee screw that i dont need to melee.  I AM NOT AN ASSASIN melee is not what I am for.  I have a bow and arrows and have swords for decaration cause all the cool kids wear them for show.  We have complained that master strikes were with melee weapons and not the bow.  Have you guys forgotten that?  I mean do we give up and throw in the towel and become the good little goody assasin they want us to be or do we fight for the bow?  I am fighting for the bow the only friend I have had through my levels I will not give up the bow nor will I melee call me a die hard I do not want to melee to me if I am meleeing something has gone seriously wrong.</div>

[KudLenka]

<blockquote><hr>Kasman wrote:<div>I need to melee screw that i dont need to melee.  I AM NOT AN ASSASIN melee is not what I am for.  I have a bow and arrows and have swords for decaration cause all the cool kids wear them for show.  We have complained that master strikes were with melee weapons and not the bow.  Have you guys forgotten that?  I mean do we give up and throw in the towel and become the good little goody assasin they want us to be or do we fight for the bow?  I am fighting for the bow the only friend I have had through my levels I will not give up the bow nor will I melee call me a die hard I do not want to melee to me if I am meleeing something has gone seriously wrong.</div><hr></blockquote>maybe you need to reroll as a sorceror then if you can not accept that ranger archetype is mix of ranged CAs and melee CAs then.It is really becoming old. If ranger's DPS is below Tier 1, it shoudl be looked into. And its is being looked into according to BG. If someone is willingly not using full potential of given class, then its theri fault, not a flaw in design.

[Star]

<div></div><p>I have to chime in on the using melee is bogus bandwagon here. This is my reasoning.</p><p>Compared to Wizzards. Let's see, they stand there. They face away from the mob (or to the side or laying on their back, or standing on their head) and as long as they get a LOS and can target off the MT they can cast away. Oh, and they don't need to buy poisons to maintain their DPS either. Hmmmmm.</p><p>Compared to Assassins. They do have to move, I'll give you that, but not nearly as much distance, a move to get behind the mob at the start of combat and their good unless the MT loses agro.</p><p>On the other hand to maintain our DPS we have to get behind or flank the mob (Culling, Longblade) be facing the mob (Dire Blade), AND move back and forth in and out of melee range. I mean I can find a "sweet spot" where I can use all ranged CAs but SoA and all Melee CAs BUT my melee AA does not seem to hit.</p><p>What I find sad is this. I can parse almost as much DMG just using my melee arts and melee AA as I can doing all the moving about and firing off CAs. Unless I have sniper's up it takes serious work to get DPS. Meanwhile the wizzie next to me is sitting there just clicking buttons and I'm the one shelling out coin for poison.</p><p>/frustrated</p>

[subari]

I can't help it, but as a ranger i feel strange to deal more dps in melee than with ranged attacks. Before LU20 i often used melee styles in group, when recharging the ranged spells and since lu20 i barely use my ironwood-longbow. For groupplay we have two nice supporting debuffs and a cloaked attack, that quickly recharges, ok. I can melee, that is not the problem, but why should i? I'm a ranger, not half a brawler or an apprentice assassin.Imo we play a class, that never was realy fitted for EQ2, why else there is no prismatic bow available or such few fabled bows to get? After lu20 i feel like before lu13: useless. Why? Because everywhere we are just 2nd choice. We are far behind ranged dd's and in melee we are beaten by any other scout- or tank-class. Our speedbuff is the lowest available and useless since everyone got a flying carpet. We are the only class with no usefull groupbuffs or -debuffs.So it is nice to know how to make the best out of this sad situation, but it ist not, why i liked to play a ranger.<div></div>

[KudLenka]

<blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div></div><p>What I find sad is this. I can parse almost as much DMG just using my melee arts and melee AA as I can doing all the moving about and firing off CAs. Unless I have sniper's up it takes serious work to get DPS. Meanwhile the wizzie next to me is sitting there just clicking buttons and I'm the one shelling out coin for poison.</p><p>/frustrated</p><hr></blockquote>thats funny. I really enjoy ranger class because i HAVE to be active and move when in combat to get the ebst results. Its more immersive and fun than just sitting back hitting few icons on my hotbar repeatedly as i did when playing my inquisitor.

[Star]

<div>You miss understand. I'm not saying to take that aspect away, I'm saying give us a boost in DPS because we have to work hard at it. Don't make it so that we have to work hard to be on par with the Wizzard that just stands there. Make it so that if we choose to work hard (and accept the inherent risk of pulling adds etc) then give us more DPS. I like to move around in combat myself. I like rangers because they're an active class, I just think we should get a boost for it.</div>

[tweety1972]

<div>I know there is a sig or two that goes</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Have you slapped your wizzy today?</div><div> </div><div>Perhaps we can add</div><div> </div><div>Have you slapped your wizzy and whining ranger today?</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>There has been far too much whining and far too little constructive criticism on this board for a budding ranger to get any usefull information from here. We got whapped in to a coma and must relearn some things, oh well. This will happen to others as well. If someone wants to use half the arts given, they should do half the dps. Besides, the rip line puts you in to melee attack anyways. Better to not waste the time you switched while your bow CA's are refreshing using some other CA's with the possibiliy of a poison proc on them as well. Use everything you are given, that is supposed to be a rangers motto.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc9900">We will prevail no matter what the odds, we will adapt and conquer (or die alot trying). And I will look up to any ranger that is willing to adapt and share the wisdom he or she has learned.</font></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>I think you are misunderstanding what we are saying.  Every Ranger I know of, (myself included), <em>does</em> use a mix of Ranged CA's and Melee CA's.  I always have.</p><p>Now, with the <em>preponderance </em>of fighting done in melee, we must fight lower conned MOBs than previously; <strong>much</strong> lower.</p><p>Personally, I was never able to take out epics that were not grey to me by 12 or so levels, and even then it was often 'iffy'.</p><p>My Ranger is level 42.  He solos 90% of the time.  He wears 'Treasured' gear, has Adept-1 CA's, uses makeshift foraged arrows, cannot afford 'Legendary' poisons, and usually cannot afford to buy three poisons, (so no 'Stun' poisons, because they use up too fast and are too expensive--and rare-- to use against 'Green Cons', which is what I find myself mostly fighting --now).</p><p>Can I still fight? </p><p>Yes, but now  I must melee<strong> ^</strong> arrow 'Green Cons' which are 6-7 levels below me, and <em>still</em> loose 60% of my health doing it.</p><p>With no CA's I can use on the move, when I get ambushed by a 'Blue' or 'White' Roekilik Assassin, I am down to 20% - 40%.  If it is 'Orange' I will die unless I run.</p><p>Kiting is only possible in certain, limited, areas against certain mobs.  Sure I can Ensnare, and run back a bit, (<strong>IF</strong> there is some place to run back to), and let go a <em>fast</em> CA like Flaming Arrow, and it helps (a bit); but overall, kiting is not a realistic option 60% of the time.</p><p>I can fight  'Blue Con' and 'Even Con' (no arrows) mobs,  but take 60% damage against 'Whites'.  It can be done, I still advance, I don't die too often, but;</p><p>My rate of advancement is sooooo slow now.  I must find just the <strong>'right'</strong> area to hunt in, and I dare not take on anything too tough (read that to mean anything over a 'Green Con') in an enclosed or crowded environment.</p><p>I am a casual player.  I have played since launch, and yet I am only 42nd level.  I don't just sit there and just 'mash buttons', and power my way through the levels.  My complaints have nothing at all to do with DPS, or whether Rangers are T-1 or T-2.  My complaint is that now, in my 2 hour play session, I am advancing so slowly, that it is hardly worth the effort any longer.</p><p>I have been hung out to dry by a design team that looked only at one type of Ranger and player, and did not bother to look at <em>ALL</em> Rangers and players, and that betrayed my trust when they promised there would be no class 'leveling' to accomodate PvP!</p>

[Kasm]

<div></div>Look guys I am fustrated and today was just the push me over the edge day.  I too have always done a combo of bow and melee, that has never been a question for me.  But I feel that my bow is my primary means of fighting and anything that takes my bow away from me is a bad thing.  I just love my bow and like I have said before the melee weapons are for show and if I have to sling the bow and whip the swords out something has gone terribly wrong.  I apalogize now I am just fustrated and venting like many of you are.  To me thats healthy to vent and if we cant vent here to our own brothers who can we vent to?

[KudLenka]

<blockquote><hr>jwmaynar wrote:<div>You miss understand. I'm not saying to take that aspect away, I'm saying give us a boost in DPS because we have to work hard at it. Don't make it so that we have to work hard to be on par with the Wizzard that just stands there.</div><hr></blockquote>I am sorry for the missunderstanding, there is just a bit too much whinning around here so i got carried away and didnt read properly.We can agree on this. Rangers pay for their DPS and therefore it should be worth it - be it arrows or poisons (at least poisons now last much longer than they used to).getting boost just for moving around is already present. Hidden shot, backshot and the positional and stealth melee skills do offer high damage compared to "passive" skills. Is the dmg high enough? I dont know. I didnt experience the uber damage of high level rangers. i did not solo heroics with my ranger. I may not know what i am missing. I am only lvl 27 now so i do not know how easy or hard it is to play solo at lvl 30+ or how rewarding it is. At my level and still limited knowledge of my class i am still having a blast. Not as big as when i killed mobs in two secconds but that was unreal. and getting reward for no risk is just lame.

[Kasm]

<div></div>Here is the thing ^^^ up heroics ok so we could at one time solo them, but lets be honest here I may have done it just to see that I could.  Was this my bread and butter?  No I grouped and had lots of fun grouping to me I felt like the hero in groups.  I was the guy that turned the tide of battle, swooping in like superman and oh my god the sniper shot refreshed hang on guys no evac we can win this one.  And yeah the feeling that you turned the tide and was able to help a group go hit some things they might not consider made me feel good.

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>EDIT: Crych, it's worse than 50-60, given that you don't get the new summoned arrows until a ways into T7. I'm 61 and I'm still stuck using freakin' fulginate. It's ridiculous.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Jay you get the reclaimed arrow skill to summon T7 arrows at 62.  Technically the bad range really starts in the 40's.  You have to wait tell your 48 before you can summon tier appropriate arrows and then you out grow them 2 levels later.  Then you have to go an entire tier summoning subpar arrows.</p><p>As I've posted in other threads I've learned how to adjust and maximize my dps in groups under the new system.  I'm not happy with the number of ranged attacks that miss/block/parry vs melee attacks but that's another issue.  I'm more upset with how bad they messed with my solo play.  Taking away the debilitating line and screwing up thorny trap is what really pisses me off.  If they reversed out these additional unannounced stealth nerf's I'd be a much happier ranger and wouldn't [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] at the dev's so much.</p><p>FIX MY DAMM TRAP</p><p>I'm tired of mobs standing next to it just laughing at me.</p><p> </p>

[Star]

<div>We do get a boost to our own DPS, but I have yet to see all that work put me over the top of a conjy + DPS pet or a wizzard is all. Unless, of course, snipers is up and then I can usually get some seriously nice DPS. I guess my major issue is that I dont want Predators (yes I include Assassin's in this statement because I believe (perhaps wrongly) that they have 0 grp buffs also) to be 'just another T1 DPS class'. Wizzies have 2 very nice buffs to bring to grps. Warlocks also have some nice grp buffs. We get a run speed which becomes pointless at the high end when people get horses, druids get SoW, etc. Oh well.</div>

[Teksun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>EDIT: Crych, it's worse than 50-60, given that you don't get the new summoned arrows until a ways into T7. I'm 61 and I'm still stuck using freakin' fulginate. It's ridiculous.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Jay you get the reclaimed arrow skill to summon T7 arrows at 62. </p><p>I'm tired of mobs standing next to it just laughing at me.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>62??? I'm 62!!!! I need to find this CA ASAP</span><div></div>

[subari]

Believe me xentar, i was about lvl 40 when the "relief" given by lu13 was brought to us. And it was no fun at all after getting 30, dealing with green or blue mobs in the enchanted lands running all the time backwards and shooting arrows at them, because i got nearly killed by them if they got in combat range with more than 50% health left. Because if you reach lvl30 the cc-spells and -weapons (which you can use in soloing) will do unproportial less damage regarding to the augmenting health-pool of opponents in your level. The usable melee-dam seems not to progress in the same way as your foes does.I like closing in also in group or to finish of a solo mob with my swords, or using cheap shot and the trap. But a realy challanging fight should not include an encaunter with a green or even blue mob 2 level bellow you.<div></div>

[Star]

<div></div>Last I checked also, the lvl on the arrows from Reclaimed were bugged (the read Level 50 not Level 60). I /bugged it but others should to.

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><p>While I have been using ranged and melee all my rangery career, I want to use my bow more. I didn't roll an assassin. I rolled a ranger, and one picture associated with the ranger thanks to fantasy and D&D is using a bow.  We should have melee skills, but they should only be necessary to mop up what gets to us, not finish kililng the half-dead or 3/4 dead mob when it arrives.</p>

[USAFJeeper]

<div></div><div>Wow.  You guys are soooo right.   I shouldnt be [Removed for Content] off that a Berserker is outDPSing me in a group.  Its all my fault that I cannot play a character that I started on day 1.  Yep.  Its all me and my "whining" about the changes is so not needed.  Thanks for peeing on my neck and telling me its raining. </div><div> </div><div>Man I never would have thought about mixing melee arts in as well in an attempt to up my DPS.  Wow, thanks, no really.  Thanks.  I feel so much better now that I am gonna go renew for a 2 year subscription!</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Deml]

<div>After LU13 I stood out at max bow range and just unloaded on things, happy in the knowledge that I could kill it before it got to me, or I could drop agro and let it go back to the tank, then kill it.  A week ago that all went away.  I find myself back in the Pre-LU13 world.  I'm looking for the "sweet spot" again in fights which seems to be the 5M mark from mobs.  I can fire all of my bow CA's off, except Stream (1 step back activates it) and I'm still in range for PBS and all of my melee CA's.  Yes, it sucks watching Triple Arrow throw up about 1500 damage total when I'm use to 3-4k from it, but it's nice using Dire Blade again and watching it throw up 2k hits, quite often.  It also gives us a reason to use Forester's noose in groups without wizards.  Debuff the fire resists of the mob then hit it with Emberstrike for higher damage.  Am I crazy about having to be that close to mobs?  Nope.  Have I been hit with more AE's in the past week than I have in the last 7 months, you betcha.  All I need to do now though is fine tune my approach on things, move Brutal Instinct, Focus Fire & the haste buff (Forget the name right now) up to more easily accesible slots on my hotbars and find out which poison works best for damage for us now and I should start seeing some better numbers scrolling off.</div><div> </div><div>A tip for those folks who don't want anything to do with melee auto-attack.  Longblade -> Dire Blade -> Snaring shot.  That will get 2 big backstabs in then put you right back at firing off your bow for your ranged autoattack and better crit chances.  Haste is now a very important thing for Rangers.</div><div> </div><div>Oh, and for those who don't have it, the Ap2's of our skills are sold in Eldarr Grove, up in the tree.</div>

[Storm_Runner]

<div></div><p>As a 27 Ranger I'm used to using melee arts as much as ranged because right now I'm about 50/50.  I find I like it.  I've got a warlock and my ranger is much more active and fun since I can't just root/nuke/nuke rinse and repeat.  If I want to just stand there and kill mobs I play the warlock.  Casters can only wear clothe and so they need a root to keep mobs at a distance.  Since we can wear chain we're not quite as squishable as they are.  I was looking forward to being able to kill mobs at range with my bow the way casters can with spells but I guess that's not meant to be.  With these new changes I'm glad I never had the ability to do that so I don't have to unlearn it.  If this is the new(est) vision of what a ranger is (an even mix of melee and ranged combat) then so be it...but I think there are a few changes that need to be made.</p><p>1.  If SOE doesn't want us to depend on procs then our combats arts need a damage upgrade.</p><p>2.  Our ranged arts would be reliable again (or at least moreso than they are now) if they weren't parried half the time.  This needs to be looked at.</p><p>3.  If we're going to be spending half our time in melee then those arts need to be looked at.  Some of the lower end arts could use a boost.  Also we could use 1 melee art that has a stun at the end so we aren't constantly waiting for cheapshot to refresh so we can use our positional melee attacks.  It's either that or remove the positional requirement from some of those melee arts.  Personally I think the extra stun would be more useful.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>These posts are ridiculous. TRYYYYY doing both. Then talk to me.</p><p>The problem the the moment is that we have double the ranged CA's with well over double the dmg potential of our close combat attacks. Close combat melee CA's parse more than ranged.</p><p>I am a 62 ranger. I do everything within my power to kill the mob, and watch people that are supposed teir 2 and 3 dps classes take it easy and out dmg me.</p><p>I have a proposition.... EVERYONE</p><p>if your goin to make a post, and want people to pay attention, put down the level and classes of the toons you play. I for one am starting right now to skip any post that doesnt have this. Listening to a 50 warlock tell me about how Aragorn uses a sword makes me wanna choke myself with my mouse cord.</p><p>I know my class better than you. I know what the problems were prepatch, and post patch. Every ranger posting on these pages knows it too. WE are ALLLLL saying the same thing... how can people still be so ignorant to this? Do they really think that there was some sort of personality test on day one, and all the whiney [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es were forced to roll rangers?</p><p>get a [Removed for Content] clue people. I dont go to your work and to slap the dik from your mouth....</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta 62 ranger Nek</p><p>killapreist (wrong sp intended) 56 templar</p><p>Hunney 41 swashy</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:52 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:53 PM</span></p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>I know my class better than you. I know what the problems were prepatch, and post patch. Every ranger posting on these pages knows it too. WE are ALLLLL saying the same thing... how can people still be so ignorant to this? <font color="#ffff00">Do they really think that there was some sort of personality test on day one, and all the whiney [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es were forced to roll rangers?</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Of course not.  All those people were forced to make wizards.  Geez I thought everyone new that :smileytongue:</p><p> </p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>These posts are ridiculous. TRYYYYY doing both. Then talk to me.</p><p>The problem the the moment is that we have double the ranged CA's with well over double the dmg potential of our close combat attacks. Close combat melee CA's parse more than ranged.</p><p>I am a 62 ranger. I do everything within my power to kill the mob, and watch people that are supposed teir 2 and 3 dps classes take it easy and out dmg me.</p><p>I have a proposition.... EVERYONE</p><p>if your goin to make a post, and want people to pay attention, put down the level and classes of the toons you play. I for one am starting right now to skip any post that doesnt have this. Listening to a 50 warlock tell me about how Aragorn uses a sword makes me wanna choke myself with my mouse cord.</p><p>I know my class better than you. I know what the problems were prepatch, and post patch. Every ranger posting on these pages knows it too. WE are ALLLLL saying the same thing... how can people still be so ignorant to this? Do they really think that there was some sort of personality test on day one, and all the whiney [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es were forced to roll rangers?</p><p>get a [Removed for Content] clue people. I dont go to your work and to slap the dik from your mouth....</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta 62 ranger Nek</p><p>killapreist (wrong sp intended) 56 templar</p><p>Hunney 41 swashy</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:52 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:53 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>If your referring to me, I am a level 67 Ranger, Have been playing since launch over 200 Days played, was the 1st level 50 on my server, 1st level 60 Scout Period Worldwide, and I am in one of the top raiding guilds worldwide.</p><p>Do I need more credentials to post? Or is that enough.</p>

[Dark_Moons_Rising]

<div></div><p>:smileysurprised:</p><p>You mean i been doing it wrong from the start,, since feb 05??? Im a ranger, my main job it to take down the mob, period, the style dont matter,, the damage does.</p><p>I have always used both melee and ranged when solo,, or when in grps,, always made sense to me to do so. Trick is,, find a tank that knows how to turn the mob, away from the party ,then everything is fair game, tonight,, im up in kos kicking tail on yellow conned solo mobs and white conned mobs,, open up with a heavy hitter ranged ca, then melee and use what we have available.</p><p>Do i like it,, no, but hey,, IM A RANGER, ill get over it and adapt</p><p>Ledoakain MIstrunner</p><p>56 RANGER</p><p>Butcherblock</p>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><p>Hi Khalan,</p><p>Thanks for the feedback on your experiences. I just have a couple of questions I wonder if you wouldn't mind answering please?</p><p>In groups, how is your DPS comparing to other, similarly equipped, T1 classes now? Are you on par for a series of fast fights or is your damage a little patchy?</p><p>The reason I ask is that i'm finding I can get 300-400 DPS melee/mele CA now (mostly A1) and up to 600 when big hitting bow skills are up (mostly A3). Over a long series of fights this puts my DPS at around the 400 - 450 mark.</p><p>how is your DPS taken over a series of fights?</p><p>Finally, I just noticed you moved to Najena (yeah I'm slow) - welcome <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Mirdo.</p>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><p>I don't mean use melee autoattack either, I'm 100% bow autoattack almost all the time.</p><p> </p><p>But let me ask you guys all an honest question.</p><p>We Have 6-7 Melee Skills that can be used in groups.</p><p>Rip Line (DD)</p><p>Blazing Thrust Line (DD)</p><p>Mortal Reminder Line (Dot)</p><p>Lunging Blade Line (DoT)</p><p>Tangle Flame Line (Backstab, Need's Stealth)</p><p>Longblade Line (Backstab, Put's you into stealth)</p><p>Ranger's Blade Line (Big Back stab, need's stealth).</p><p> </p><p>If your a ranger and didn't use these at all ever before LU20, raise your hand.</p><p> </p><p>/raises hand</p><p> </p><p>I could get 1400DPS on a raid, and Not use 7 of my Damage Based Skills, I could Outdps Every other tier 1 class with only half my skills.</p><p>No other class can make that claim now or ever, no other class could get away with only using half their abilities and people got USED to it.</p><p>People are used to not "Ever meleeing" as a ranger, Rangers never melee "I" Used to post. I told people I never use melee skills and meleeing as a ranger is dumb, you get more dps from range.</p><p>That is not true any longer, we need to use all our skills, melee, ranged etc.</p><p>How many people used Brutal Instinct/Haste and Focus fire short term buffs before LU20?</p><p>I know I didn't and I still got top DPS every fight without ever needing any of my short term buffs.</p><p>Do we need adjusment still? Absolutely, but not the the extent some are claiming.</p><p>Once people have learned to play the "New Ranger" (Wether we like it or not, hell I wish I never had to melee) we will be able to understand where we stand a lot better.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Wow no offence but what kind of player are you? I always assumed that everyone used all their skills all the time.As for relearning the class, I say screw that. I know how to play my class, i'm not some leet little kid who rolled a ranger after LU13.I'm trying my best to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of my character and I am still getting out dps'd by t2 and even some t3 classes.Check out our lvl 60-70 skills, this gap between rangers and other class is going to be HUGE at 70. Wizzy's ice nova hits for 6k+, our lvl 70 triple shot upgrade will hit for a max of 2k IF everyone single shot lands.

[Mirdo]

<div>HI valleyboy,</div><div> </div><div>Well, tbh, before #20 it was very easy to sustain excellent DPS from ranged without ever having to close to melee in group or raids. The only reason I ever got close to the mobs presonally was to drop in the short range debuffs or a stun if healers neeed a second or two to catch up with mob damage on multi pulls.</div><div> </div><div>In our guild groups my pattern was pretty much always: Stream mob1 til dead, mob 2 all other Ranged skills - rinse repeat. I could put out enough damage that I never actually had to use melee skills for great DPS. Sure I could have increased my output more by staying in the sweet spot, longshank and bladed(shrouded?) strike. But, with mobs dropping in 20 seconds I just got lazy and didn't bother to add the extra DPS (I would just use a lower damaging bow are and rely on procs to increase it's damage).</div><div> </div><div>I can easily understand that a lot of Rangers didn't use our melee CA's in groups or raids given how much damage our proc's were generating.</div><div> </div><div>I'm not saying that was the best or only way play - itobviously isn't but I'm willing to bet that, after #13, many Rangers played exactly as Khalan described.</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div>

[Zabumt]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mirdo wrote:<div>HI valleyboy,</div><div> </div><div>Well, tbh, before #20 it was very easy to sustain excellent DPS from ranged without ever having to close to melee in group or raids. The only reason I ever got close to the mobs presonally was to drop in the short range debuffs or a stun if healers neeed a second or two to catch up with mob damage on multi pulls.</div><div> </div><div>In our guild groups my pattern was pretty much always: Stream mob1 til dead, mob 2 all other Ranged skills - rinse repeat. I could put out enough damage that I never actually had to use melee skills for great DPS. Sure I could have increased my output more by staying in the sweet spot, longshank and bladed(shrouded?) strike. But, with mobs dropping in 20 seconds I just got lazy and didn't bother to add the extra DPS (I would just use a lower damaging bow are and rely on procs to increase it's damage).</div><div> </div><div>I can easily understand that a lot of Rangers didn't use our melee CA's in groups or raids given how much damage our proc's were generating.</div><div> </div><div>I'm not saying that was the best or only way play - itobviously isn't but I'm willing to bet that, after #13, many Rangers played exactly as Khalan described.</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div><hr></blockquote><p>It's refreshing to see posts like this.</p><p>And to those that say Wizards don't move around to do damage.  You're wrong.  Wizards do move around quite a bit to do damage.  Much of the time when we move we're moving to stand right on top of the main tank!  Gotta love using forge of ro and point blank area of effect spells to ATTEMPT to keep up with ranger damage pre-lu20!  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Most normal xp groups have me jumping in and out of melee range VERY often.  Rarely do I find my Wizard just kicking back and having a hay day at range.  In solo encounters with solo mobs, I'm often mixing it up both at range and in melee.  It's just that my Wizard's melee attack is in the form of a damage shield instead of a CA.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Oh and you want whiney mages?  Imagine if, no matter what sort of arrow or weapon you used, you could only do 2/3 or less of your potential damage.  Yeah, that would be Wizards against fire or ice immune mobs.  Wizards don't get the luxury of swapping out weapons to do damage against resistant or immune mobs.  That big ice comet or big fire-based spell doesn't seem so great now does it?</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Zabumtik on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:58 AM</span></p>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><p>Zabumtik,</p><p>Obviously my post relates to my experience and gear level only. It might be that app IV and adept 1 geared Rangers were using their entire repetoire of skill for damage output before #20 to maximise output. They certainly wouldn't have been putting out the much quoted figure of 1500 dps on a consistant basis.</p><p>I was mainly adept 3 / legendary / low T6 fabled gear. This would place my damage (assuming an equally valid method of CA execution as the next Ranger) in the what? Above average zone? Against giants and cyclops it certainly meant I could slack and do nothing but Ranged damage and still remain effective. Using my slack technique I would parse between 800 and 1000 DPS most fights using non-legendary poison (^^^ giants and cyclops lasting 20s on average).</p><p>I have no data but I would assume that the extra damage from the shield and chest would add considerably to DPS output of a raid geared Ranger pre #20 and those items combined with master spells probably account for the 1500 dps figure that gets bandied about.</p><p>I wouldn't mind seeing some data on how those 2 items boosted our DPS for curiositys sake <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Mirdo.</p>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>valleyboy1 wrote:<blockquote><hr>ChaosUndivided wrote:<div></div><p>I don't mean use melee autoattack either, I'm 100% bow autoattack almost all the time.</p><p> </p><p>But let me ask you guys all an honest question.</p><p>We Have 6-7 Melee Skills that can be used in groups.</p><p>Rip Line (DD)</p><p>Blazing Thrust Line (DD)</p><p>Mortal Reminder Line (Dot)</p><p>Lunging Blade Line (DoT)</p><p>Tangle Flame Line (Backstab, Need's Stealth)</p><p>Longblade Line (Backstab, Put's you into stealth)</p><p>Ranger's Blade Line (Big Back stab, need's stealth).</p><p> </p><p>If your a ranger and didn't use these at all ever before LU20, raise your hand.</p><p> </p><p>/raises hand</p><p> </p><p>I could get 1400DPS on a raid, and Not use 7 of my Damage Based Skills, I could Outdps Every other tier 1 class with only half my skills.</p><p>No other class can make that claim now or ever, no other class could get away with only using half their abilities and people got USED to it.</p><p>People are used to not "Ever meleeing" as a ranger, Rangers never melee "I" Used to post. I told people I never use melee skills and meleeing as a ranger is dumb, you get more dps from range.</p><p>That is not true any longer, we need to use all our skills, melee, ranged etc.</p><p>How many people used Brutal Instinct/Haste and Focus fire short term buffs before LU20?</p><p>I know I didn't and I still got top DPS every fight without ever needing any of my short term buffs.</p><p>Do we need adjusment still? Absolutely, but not the the extent some are claiming.</p><p>Once people have learned to play the "New Ranger" (Wether we like it or not, hell I wish I never had to melee) we will be able to understand where we stand a lot better.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Wow no offence but what kind of player are you? I always assumed that everyone used all their skills all the time.As for relearning the class, I say screw that. I know how to play my class, i'm not some leet little kid who rolled a ranger after LU13.I'm trying my best to squeeze as much DPS as possible out of my character and I am still getting out dps'd by t2 and even some t3 classes.Check out our lvl 60-70 skills, this gap between rangers and other class is going to be HUGE at 70. Wizzy's ice nova hits for 6k+, our lvl 70 triple shot upgrade will hit for a max of 2k IF everyone single shot lands.<hr></blockquote><p>Pre Lu20, I could get 1400-1700 Raid DPS Easily, with not a single close range melee attack on my hotbar. There was no point to melee at all for me as a ranger, risk ae's, splash damage etc. Many Rangers got used to this type of game play. Fortunately for me, I have been playing since launch so rather than crying that I'm helpless and making ridiculous assertions that priests out dps me, I have reverted to my Pre Lu13 Playing style and  making the most of my situation.</p><p><em>You WILL need to relearn how to play your class.</em></p><p>I don't mean you, I mean rangers in general, too many people have become lazy and complacent and expect the same tactics to apply today. They don't.</p><p>Do we need a DPS Boost? Absolutely, but not to the extent some would make it seem. People are crying that the sky is falling, I can still Parse near top dps per fight in groups but now instead of using half my skills, I need to use all of them.</p><p>Many rangers are still trying to play with PreLU20 Tactics, it simply will not work.</p><p> </p>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div>We DO need a DPS boost, however. Even utilizing all our skills, we're not where we're supposed to be. Although you're right. It doesn't need to be nearly as much as some are making it out to be. And I think the problem does come down to tactics. I've been using melee/ranged mixture since I made Gwyn back in May of 2005. LU13 didn't make me change my tactics any, since to be effective soloing without resorting to having lots of poisons and procs, those tactics were necessary. But I can see where some rangers would have gotten used to just using ranged attacks. It is going to require relearning, if rangers have forgotten about those skills and where and when to use them.

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div>We DO need a DPS boost, however. Even utilizing all our skills, we're not where we're supposed to be. Although you're right. It doesn't need to be nearly as much as some are making it out to be. And I think the problem does come down to tactics. I've been using melee/ranged mixture since I made Gwyn back in May of 2005. LU13 didn't make me change my tactics any, since to be effective soloing without resorting to having lots of poisons and procs, those tactics were necessary. But I can see where some rangers would have gotten used to just using ranged attacks. It is going to require relearning, if rangers have forgotten about those skills and where and when to use them.<hr></blockquote>The problem with posts like this is SoE and Blackguard will simply start quoting this [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] and leave the class with no changes.I still firmly believe the lack of pure DPS through our CA's will become a huge problem as we and the other dps classes level.Wait till you see a lvl 70 wizzy throwing out ice nova for 6/7k a pop whilst we are trying to hit things with the lvl 70 triple shot which is WAY lower damage.Relying on procs and poisons is complete BS, SoE changed the system so we dont proc much anymore, it's aboiut time they beefed up our CA's to reflect this.

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><div></div><p>Posts like what? We do need a DPS boost. We don't need to be the Gods of DPS again.</p><p>And if you'd paid attention to any of my other posts, you would see I say the same thing as you in regards to CAs. I dislike having to suck on the teat of using poisons just to get by. They should be a bonus. Our base DPS needs to be raised, and it doesn't need to be raised by mucking with our melee CAs. Our ranged CAs just plain need to do more power than they do right now.</p><p>I will restate, however. We do NOT need to be the Gods of DPS. We DO need a DPS boost from our core abilities.</p><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:55 PM</span></p>

[tweety1972]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><p>Posts like what? We do need a DPS boost. We don't need to be the Gods of DPS again.</p><p>And if you'd paid attention to any of my other posts, you would see I say the same thing about you in regards to CAs. I dislike having to suck on the teat of using poisons just to get by. They should be a bonus. Our base DPS needs to be raised, and it doesn't need to be raised by mucking with our melee CAs. Our ranged CAs just plain need to do more power than they do right now.</p><p>I will restate, however. We do NOT need to be the Gods of DPS. We DO need a DPS boost from our core abilities.</p><hr></blockquote><p>QFE</p><p>(this is the kind of post I can agree with)</p>

[subari]

With the low proc-rate i use now poisons with high Dot. Even T6-Poisons have dots arround 280 points all 6 sec. Imo it helped to keep the dps up.Greetingssuba

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><p><font color="#99ff99">I have ALWAYS used ALL of my CAs in every fight and raid Ive been in. I have always made it a point to allow one or two auto range attacks between each ranged CA.I wrote a guide on my guild web page on how to joust raid mobs with a nasty AoE and still max your DPS.Now, the only time I see numbers even anywhere close to pre LU20 <em>average</em> is when I use Torment of Rijaki and auto-melee with my 10 sec buff that increases haste by like 75% and DPS by 97% (i might have them backwards). It is not right that I only get my best DPS for 10 seconds every what, 3 minutes? 5?</font></p><p><font color="#99ff99">I am however learning a whole new aproach to my class, and I do like a few of the new AA skills. But we are still far behind as T1 DPS and / or any sort of utility....</font></p>

[King Leor]

<div></div><p>Ya, but unfortunatley all this isn't the way it's supposed to be and who knows, they may end up changing it so once again our bow CA's are useful once again. But if I wanted to melee more often than not I would have rolled an assassin, not a ranger. But as it is, I like using a bow, so I suggest sony make a class that is pretty much bow only. Heh, ya was gone a while as well. was banned a 2nd time somehow, with no explantaion as to why. I think it might have been cuz I made a post saying I corrected a Mods spelling, but thats not against forum rules.   /sigh</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ([Removed for Content]) ranger</p>

[dbmoreland]

Focus Fire is a 10 sec buff that increases haste by 63% and DPS by 72% (at Adept 3) and is recastable every 1.5 minutes. I use it every time I pull with Stealthy Fire (same recast times). Brutal Instinct increases DPS by another 65% (at Adept 3) for 36 seconds and is recastable every 5 minutes. So yes absolute best DPS is generated for only 10 seconds every 5 minutes by using both of these together. Yes they do stack.Hope this helps,<div></div>

[ChaosUndivided]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dbmoreland wrote:Focus Fire is a 10 sec buff that increases haste by 63% and DPS by 72% (at Adept 3) and is recastable every 1.5 minutes. I use it every time I pull with Stealthy Fire (same recast times). Brutal Instinct increases DPS by another 65% (at Adept 3) for 36 seconds and is recastable every 5 minutes. So yes absolute best DPS is generated for only 10 seconds every 5 minutes by using both of these together. Yes they do stack.Hope this helps,<div></div><hr></blockquote>Except that theres a 100% Haste and DPS cap, so your wasting a lot, Master 1 Killing Instinct is a 97% DPS boost.

[Carna]

<div></div>I thought that cap was now around 140 with KoS... I could be wrong.

[dbmoreland]

mmm foolish question then, why does it display a value greater than 100% in your personal information window?? Is it just teasing me?? How hard would it be to display the actual value and if capped say so??<div></div>

[Carna]

<div></div>There's a thread in I <em>think</em> the Swashbuckler forum where a couple of people are talking about displayed values over 100%... I may have got the wrong end of the stick though.

[ChaosUndivided]

<div>From LU17 Notes:</div><div> </div><div>- There are now caps on how much haste and DPS can be buffed or debuffed. The total amount of haste or DPS can never be debuffed below -50%, and never buffed above +100%.</div>

[subari]

<div></div>Focus Fire 10 sec is probably a bad joke. I can't remember an other class, with buffs of such short duration. And imo it only affects autoattack not ca.