PDA

View Full Version : Personal Ranger Assessment


Gailstryd
02-27-2006, 08:20 PM
<div>I am a lvl 62 Ranger with 6 Master spells and the rest Adept III except for 1 or 2 adept I's and 3 app4's for my new abilities.  I am in full legendary and fabled gear, about half and half with 2 treasured pieces and I have taken to using a crafted rosewood roundshield and legendary Bixie Blade 1hand slasher when soloing (more affective than duel wielding from what I have seen) and in all am a skilled player to the best of my knowledge and to the knowledge of my friends and those who play with me.  I've been here since EQ2 release.</div><div><strong><u></u></strong> </div><div><strong><u></u></strong> </div><div><strong><u>SOLO:</u></strong>  I find soloing to be a lot harder now, but that is a factor of having about 50% less dps and lacking the ability to near perma stun anything I can hit.  On some levels I don't mind how soloing has become, in all we are not so broken that we can not do anything, but we are not where we should be imo.  Solo I do anywhere from 100-200 dps depending on the fight.  I find I can still kill a ^ white mob about half the time and in very limited conditions and with a low low success rate, I find I can down a ^ yellow.  However, I also find that I can be easily killed by a low blue con single down mob if I'm not very careful and in fact just about anything that isn't solo con or isn't green/grey can kill me with ease.  Some green and grey mobs can kill me with ease.  I find our "superior" defense to int casters has little to no meaning when we have t2 dps, but no utility to back it up.  In all I could live with the way soloing is, I'd never do it or have fun soloing ever, but I could live with it because I guess questing and doing things on your own is technically not something SOE finds a necessary part of my class anymore.  As to other classes still soloing ^^^ heroics, well there are several and I guess I can't do much about it.  An increase to our dps would make soloing more viable without making it "unbalanced" and add fun back into that aspect of the Ranger class.  Either add dps or add utility.  This is all in regards to my personal experiences.</div><div> </div><div><strong><u>GROUP:</u></strong>  In groups I have had some more significant success than soloing.  I find my dps is serviceable being that it is around t2 dps and i parse between 200-400 dps when fighting blue-yellow con's of a regular nature.  On mobs that are orange or have high deflection/parry (every other mob in KoS seems to be a bruiser or monk mob and deflects/dodges 50%+ of my attacks) I often drop into 100-250 dps range while mages and a few other classes remain at or just under their regular blue-yellow con dps.  I have found I offer t2 dps without the utility and I have found that in general Rangers are less desired for groups and as time has went by and will continue to go by my class seems less and less wanted for groups.  In all, as long as you don't mind feeling like you aren't contributing much and completely unable to affect the outcome of your grouping experience it can be fun still to group.  In groups I find myself parsing even'ish with swashbucklers, monks, berserkers (they can often spike above me though), and enchanters (can spike above me sometimes).  On occassion Furies parse even or greater than me when they have oppurtunity to dps and on group encounters even with my two ae's up.  Most healers are the only classes I can consistently beat in dps anymore and I find I can beat paladins while guardians and shadowknights I either beat in dps by a mediocre margin considering I'm a pure dps class or sometimes they can match my dps.  Assassins, brigands, necro's, necro's dps pets, conjurors, conjurors dps pets, bruisers, and warlocks often parse just above me or completely outdps me and I seldom manage to match their dps.  The summoner pets outdps me themselves on far to frequent a basis and always when added with their owners dps I am out dps'd.  I forgot to mention bards which I often dps even with and sometimes I out dps them.  Wizards and sometimes Warlocks I match in dps on a regular basis, I can outdps wizards about a 3rd of the time but another 3rd of the time they are outdps'ing me which seems to be fair asides that we are doing t2 dps numbers at best most times.  In all the ranger class feels hollow for group play.  We can be of service for dps in groups but just as easily replaced with high dps and far better utility from most t2 or even t3 dps classes and often a tank can serve just as well in a rangers place with the added benefit of being able to actually bring something to the group.  From what I've seen just about every class brings something to a group that ultimately adds advantage and the ability to save or affect the outcome of the group for the better.  Whether it be healing, utility, tanking ability, crowd control, or combinations of all every class has an extra added function when working with a group.  A few classes main aid to a group is their ability to dps and make the encounters shorter/easier via that ability.  Rangers have none of the above.  Our dps is insignificant enough to add no true helpfull benefit and we have no utility that anyone else with much to offer the group could bring.  We are a shell with moderate dps and nothing else to add.  T2 dps class, without the utility equals a lonely Ranger.  In all, as long as a group is doing blue cons and down Ranger is just as good as anyone else who can add t2 dps, but for harder group scenarios, a Ranger can do little more than subpar dps and offers no saving grace to the group other than to fall on the mob while everyone else runs or evac if it is up and viable.  Turn off any parsers so you can't see t2 and t3 classes outdps'ing you and have little to no care that you are an xp sink with a little dps for your group, and grouping can be kind of fun.  One of those blissful ignorance things.</div><div> </div><div><strong><u>RAIDING:</u></strong>  We still offer a modicome of use in raids.  Our t2 dps can be used at range outside of some AE ranges thus allowing us to safely dps for the raid.  Our damage is such that controlling agro is barely an issue to even think about thinking about anymore so no real need to worry about wiping the raid.  In all you could easily replace the ranger with conj/necro in a raid and have greater utility for it and better dps by a large margin and the same could be said for several other classes.  The over theme seems to be Rangers are an added bit of flair, something different to break up tedium but easily replaceable with several other classes for greater dps and utility.  As it stands we don't add anything significant anywhere and are now the Mediocre Central one stop bland shop.  My raid dps runs around 300-500 and dependant on AE's I am easily matched or outdps'd by the same classes listed under GROUP.</div><div> </div><div>Ranged is our calling card and the one thing that gives us any unique playability and difference.  It can be useful for safe dps from a distance or it can be an add magnet for wandering targets, offering only t2 dps up for a solice if the mobs aren't deflecting and parrying everything.  We need an increase of 15%'ish on the dmg to our CA's that would at least come close to bringing us in line with t1 dps, and those t2 and t3 classes doing t1 dps.  But it wouldn't solve the overall issue of bland.  Yes, ranger dps was overthetop pre LU20, but it gave us a usefulness for groups beyond just adding in X dps, it actually allowed us to feel like a significant factor in the group.  I don't want back what we had but in all I'd like to see us back up enough in dps to matter beyond just another warm body for the mobs to maul.  In all I'd much rather see an increase of 20 or 25% dmg to our CA's. </div><div> </div><div>One of the largest problems I see is the continued position of t2 and t3 classes doing t1 dps.  One of the reasons given for the downshift in Ranger dps and proc rates was the fact that we rendered other classes positions obsolete.  We could pre LU20 fulfill the role of dps, crowd control, and even tanking to a degree because of our over inflated dps and the abilities a near godly proc rate allowed.  Summoner classes are taking over that position now and it's not that I want to see them nerfed but to secure my proper place as a class it will probably have to happen.  Summoner classes fill buffing, dps, utility, crowd control, and several other needs all by themselves and it renders not only Rangers in a position of subpar desireability but it also hurts every other t1 dps class that can really only do dps.  That's 4 classes that are getting whelched on by 2 others. </div><div> </div><div>In the end Rangers aren't the only ones with problems and I wish good luck and prosperity on all classes that need it.  But Rangers at this juncture in our careers have been changed yet again and this time we lack the tools necessary to feel NECESSARY!  We lack clear t1 dps (there may be a few hardcore, decked to the 9's, fullfabled mastered uberfied rangers out there who can get it but it is out of reach for 85+% of the class), we lack utility because we are suppose to be top dps with the other t1 classes, and we lack distinction in all areas of play and have no bonus to being what we are beyond baring the title Ranger.  Other classes can stun solo heroics, solo heriocs in general, do dps/utility/fill multiple roles, and in some cases it just further degrades the classes that are already struggling to do what they need to to remain a viable option in the game.  And just keep in mind that this is what it was like for me with all my gear and ability.  Imagine what it must be like for casually geared less experienced Ranger, soloing is probably near impossible and group and raid play would be even more fruitless than it is for me.  I'll be a ranger for as long as I can and I hope that is for the rest of my time here in this game which I plan on being quite some time.  But SOE has the express ability to insure that or utterly squash it and right now the need for some upward tweaking on Rangers is what me and most others are really hoping and waiting for.  This post was not meant to be inciteful or call for any undo actions.  It is merely a showcase of what it's been like for me at the very least and some of the facts and truths behind the situation.  Other people may have other variables or different outcomes and that is fine, it is your end of the game.  What I submit is factual and it is in some ways emotional because the Ranger class has meaning and value beyond even what this game has to offer for me.  I hope this helps sort out some things for anyone looking to have them sorted out and I feel this speaks well to a lot of the ranger community though there are others on other threads from other classes calling sound reason, facts, and information like this lies and or in general further trying to trash the Ranger or keep him down.  But as long as this shows or helps one person it wasn't a waste and at least I've said what I've seen and experienced, filed and submitted for the masses.</div>

Baelor_xev
02-27-2006, 09:02 PM
Well said.I would've thought that the changes to poison procs would go hand-in-hand with an increase in CA damage.  It seems to me that managing Ranger dps ability is better managed from the CA damage side than a proc.-bae<div></div>

Mirdo
02-27-2006, 09:04 PM
<div>I don't know about anybody else, but sustained DPS seems to be one of our big issues right now?</div><div> </div><div>If ALL my big hitters are up (excluding snipers shot for now), I am getting what I consider to be acceptable DPS in a group situation. By acceptable I mean I'm coparable to the other T1 classes in the group. The problem is, while those shots are cooling down I have the option to either melee or Stream.</div><div> </div><div>Stream seems to be a very ineffective way to deliver damage right now. Without the previous boost from procs, my A3 is only getting me to the 300 to 400 range - depending on group debuffs etc. This is poor compared to say, a guild assassin capable of sustaining at least 100 and more often 200 DPS in the same group vs the same mobs.</div><div> </div><div>What this means to me in groups is that I am only achieving the same DPS as other T1 players every 2nd or 3rd mob. This shows up in raids too as the longer the fight goes on the more my personal DPS tends toward 300-350.</div><div> </div><div>A boost of some sort to stream that makes it worth casting again might be useful here.</div><div> </div><div>Is anyone else getting the same feeling? I need to run some tests to verify all this, and with the guild running all over in KoS it might take some time to set up the grp. Ideally I will grab our wizzy and assassin and run a number of parses over some control mobs. </div><div> </div><div>In terms of solo ability I've only tried up to even con, no arrow mobs. If one of my big hits is up for the pull then it's no hassle. Slightly trickier if I pull with a low damage ranged CA and then melee - but not bad. However, my gear is a mix of legendary / low T6 fabled and most CA's are A3. I can't comment on how it is for Rangers using AppIV or A1 with treasured gear.</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div>

Yrield
02-27-2006, 09:45 PM
I stoped reading your post where you said "<i>In groups I have had some more significant success than soloing.  I find my dps is serviceable being that it is around t2 dps and i parse between 200-400 dps when fighting blue-yellow con's of a regular nature.</i>"200-400dps is fighters/bards/chanters dps.Here some parses of a 64 ranger using T6 legendary poison (adeste) and a 64 assassin not using poisonall data are again heroic mob, lvl67-68, yellow con.R = ranger, A = assassinEncounter1R: 500A: 380Encounter2R: 478A: 654Encounter3R: 422A: 912Encounter4R: 443A: 432Encounter5R: 470A: 545Encounter6R: 719A: 449The Hierodule - named lvl68^^^R: 498A: 732The Vornerus Tyrant - named lvl69^^^ (orange)R: 506A: 824The Vornerus Tyrant 2R: 552A: 949Best run of the night:R: 720dps (17 sec)A: 1174 dps (14 sec)I guess I should be happy and find myself "serviceable" since I outdps a 65 zerker most of the timeRanger need love...badly

Teksun
02-27-2006, 10:38 PM
Thanks Rhanin for putting this into words before I got a chance, and you did it much better than I could have (LOL). I agree with your assessment 98% (my DPS on a lot of orange MoBs was closer to 75). I am not a power player. I don't have the fabled gear, or the master spells that i probably should have being a 62 Ranger, but I feel I shouldn't HAVE to have them to do a good job. I will continue to play my main at least until I hit 70, and hope that my guild continues to want me along on raids. At least until I level up my 31 conjuror... If we are going to remain T1 DPS we will need a LOT of lovin. One of the easiest solutions I see is to make it so moBs cannot Riposte, Parry attacks form the rear. AT LEAST stealthed attacks (I mean REALLY, c'mon). I'm not sure if SOE is even looking into the current problem, but I sure HOPE so.I can't wait until April when I will have a chance to address some of these issues face to face...<div></div>

Jay
02-28-2006, 12:01 AM
<div></div><div>Rhanin, brother... love the hard return. The Enter key is your friend...it feels neglected and underused. It has needs too. It can't just be there for you whenever you feel like giving it some attention, it needs to be a regular part of your posts. If you're not going to return its calls, you can just start making your posts all in one single paragraph, mister.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Hmmm... right! I think I agree with everything. Our DPS is too low. Parries are ridiculous. We have to melee far too much. Not feeling like much of  a ranger, but I'm getting by. We need some TLC from the Devs, stat!</div>

Blackin_DeMast
02-28-2006, 12:30 AM
<div>I have been able to manage a good solid 300 to 400 in groups now.  Mainly using all my big bow attaks without regard to agro or reuse timers.  Storm of Arrows(even on single mobs), Culling the Weak, Hiden Fire, Sniper Shot, Tripple Shot.  I hit them all as soon as they refresh.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

Jay
02-28-2006, 12:33 AM
<div></div>Yeah, isn't that funny? I don't even think twice about aggro anymore. I still use all my reducers and hate-dumpers as part of the old routine, but I don't sit there and carefully time my big ranged CAs with plenty of 'padding' between them. I let 'er rip, spam them all, and sit back confident that my uber DPS will keep that mob firmly attached to the MT. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

Blackin_DeMast
02-28-2006, 12:39 AM
<div></div>Yeah, I find myslf hitting that little green button too, just out of habit.  Then thinking to myslelf, that was a waste!  I still use improved surveil to get into stealth sometimes though.  Although if longshank is up it is a much better choice.

Gailstryd
03-02-2006, 03:28 AM
<div></div><p>Hehe yeah sorry bout that Kaeros, I work on my paragraphing skills.  Been out of the writing loop for a bit and I've always been a long winded gas bag lol.  As for my post to further, Khalan made a post talking about using melee more to get a more solid dps number and well all of the above especially group and raid when there is no ae takes into account her recommended play style for more dps.  I never forgot how to use my melee abilities and I've always used auto attack to the fullest and I still get the above numbers which on average are about 100-300 less than other t1 dps numbers dependant on the mob and situation.  I grouped with a wizard the other night, 1 level above me and he was consistently outdps'ing me by about 50-75dps every fight something I thought wasn't bad since he was 1 level higher.  Least that was until I remembered to add his familiars dps into his and then it was an added 100-150 dps ontop of the 50-75 every fight and he had to sit back and wiggle his fingers. </p><p>I don't mind fighting for position and I don't mind paying for poisons especially now that they last longer and its cheaper to do what I do, but not when I do t2 dps with the tools that should be giving me a hard competitive edge against the other t1 dps.  Making t2 dps, isn't something I feel like doing much longer especially not when the t2's are half the people out damaging me all the time and even the other t1 dps classes.  In all I don't pay for poisons, fight for position to do my dps, and solo like crap for t2 numbers and to be constantly behind the t1, I want a solid spot in t1.</p>

TangBaBa
03-02-2006, 06:21 AM
<div></div><div>I can imagine that I'm going to get flamed for being a [Removed for Content], but I think it would be nice for the proc changes to go back somewhat like they used to be, though maybe adjust some of the base damage on the combat arts. I'm all for restoring ranger DPS, but maybe not quite back to its full prior status. At times I think it used to be a bit excessive.</div><div> </div><div>But in addition to restoring the procs, why not give sorcerers some kind of proc useable items similiar to poisons? I hear a lot about how much plat rangers used to spend on their XP sessions to achieve their DPS via alchemy. Why not create in-game craftable, charged items that sorcerers could also use to boost there DPS through procs?</div><div> </div>

piesang
03-02-2006, 11:40 AM
I thought about the potion for mages as well. Maybe a proc that ups their int by a large amount (equates more damage) and lasts as long as our poisens.That should make it a bit better. For now their procs seem useless.<div></div>

Mirdo
03-02-2006, 12:31 PM
<div></div><div></div><p>The problem with relying on proc'ing items for a %age of your overall damage output is that they are all or nothing damage additions. With a CA it will hit within a range of values and (current Ninja mob parrying abilities aside) hit pretty consistantly. A high DD poison either will or won't hit - if it's a 400 damage proc you either get a decent number or 0. This makes damage output a very random affair (like now).</p><p>I personally would like to see us less reliant on proc's for our core damage but with either a CA damage boost or recast timer cut. I've said it before - I would be happy with no posion damage procs - it would save me money and I would expect more even damage output.</p><p>As for Int potions for casters - most that I know can get close to cap via gear and self buffs. Not playing a caster (abandoned warlock alt at 45 when they changed his focus to AoE) I can't can't make a totally informed comment on whether any need a DPS buff or not however; I don't *think* so because it looks to me like the current state of wizzies is being used as the baseline for T1 damage classes. I'm guessing other classes will be brought in line around them.</p><p>Mirdo. </p><p>Message Edited by Mirdo on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:34 AM</span></p>