I had fun last night, go figure

[Jay]

<div>I spent more time in KoS last night than I have all week, and had a blast. Didn't really think about the nerfs too much. We started out getting a couple guild groups together to go into the Great Nest (or whatever its called, the instance just inside Barren Sky) and that was awesome. Very challenging. Later we explored around Barren Sky, did some grinding on Bixie Isle in TT, then headed into Sanctum of the Scaleborn. VERY cool zone. I really enjoyed it, and just spent the time insulting my guildies (tough love, man), making bad jokes, and whacking orange ^^^ mobs. I didn't dwell on the nerfs or sit there bemoaning my DPS of days past; I just did what I could to keep the numbers high but didn't obsess over it. It was good.</div><div> </div><div>There's no question that we need some help on the damage end, but in groups at least I don't feel like totally dead weight. Plus, I disarmed whole bunches of chests, saving my beloved guildmates from imminent destruction! <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[klepp]

<div></div>well if wew erent having fun, i dont think we'd be playing right now, that isnt the issue.   My issue is i was having tons of fun, being a ranger.. killing with pure dps... they took the fun away...

[Pleiades]

<div></div><p>Wait until you're constantly last choice for raids and groups, like the fat-kid in high-school phys.-ed..  Unless you have inexperienced raid leaders, or your charming personality makes-up for your stiff lack of DPS and utility, that's right where we are.</p><p>The game is basically fun, but do not lose sight of the problems and the damage done to this class.  Also, on the subject of fun, it could be a lot more fun if our class weren't utterly broken.</p><p>-Ple</p>

[Pleiades]

<div></div>Exactly, 1oo% right-on Klepp.

[Jay]

<div></div><p>/shrug</p><p>I'm in a good guild and I have a lot of friends; we don't staff raids like a dodge-ball game. If I want to come, I'm basically guaranteed a spot. We don't have enough ppl in the guild that we have to compete for raid slots, and I'm one of the folks that helps organize the raids in the first place. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Sorry to hear you guys have lost any enjoyment. You're right, if it's not fun at all, why bother playing? I'm just glad I can forget all this crap for a night and enjoy time spent with my friends. Yeah, we're broken, yeah, we need some help, but crying doom-and-gloom just hurts your own good time. It's true that we were a blast to play for the last several months, but I'm still a ranger at heart, whatever my DPS is.</p><p>I just thought I'd share a bit of sunlight during an admittedly very dark time for us. Hope you guys are coping okay.</p>

[Gareorn]

<div>Yes, I had fun last night being the tank in the group.  I've found that I'm as good a tank as I am a Ranger these days.  It's just that I'd much prefer to play a Ranger.  This "jack of all trades, master of none" stuff is for the birds.  And after re-outfitting my Ranger so I can stand toe to toe with the mobs, I'm broke again.  I did gain a level and got an AA point though.  Heck, I always have fun when I log in.  I'm always looking for ways to XP effeciently, otherwise I'll be lagging behind the guild.  Forget about being a DPS class, mitigation is the way to go right now. </div>

[Pleiades]

<div>Well, serious raid leaders don't set-up raids like dodge-ball.  My point was, as a ranger, unless you're in a casual guild where just your obvious charm, wit and charisma are important; you're not going to get in the raid.  Like that kid I referred to.</div><div> </div><div>Proper raid organizers, however, seek people that are fun to be around, sure, but the first priority for a serious raid has to be what you offer the raid.  There is precious little a ranger could offer a raid that isn't better gathered from conji/necro's and their pets, wizzy's/warlocks, zerkers, and even swashy/brigands.  They, and their pets, do as much damage now and offer a wealth of other utility.  This is true, not hype, not exaggeration.  It is that straightforward.</div><div> </div><div>Why pick us ranger then--we're getting kinda fat and slow...</div><div> </div>

[TaleraRis]

Well I can't be that useless. I was hunting with a friend in Sinking Sands and I got an out of the blue tell to come join a group in Permafrost. I couldn't because it was late and I was with my guildie, but I doubt I would be getting tells when I'm not LFG if I were *that* bad at groups.I did decently duoing with my berserker guildie. And prior to that I went around with him and our conjuror friend and we did some heritage stuff, like nameds for the FBSS. I held my own in the DPS department.<div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>the biggest problem ive seen is with yellow/orange conned mobs... we cant compare to dps that is our level our skill on them.</p><p>And no, coyote, if u reading this im not talkin about soloin....</p>

[Zube]

<div></div><p>Jay, you are a great voice for the Range community.  It has been said before I know, but I think it needed to be reiterated.  :smileyhappy:  I lurk a lot and post very little, but it was nice to read this thread after so many negative ones.</p><p>/salute</p>

[Jayad]

<div></div><div>It's fun....</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>... until most EQ2 players learn that Rangers aren't doing good DPS and you're always LFG. </div><div> </div><div>I guess if you're in a guild and lucky enough to always have groups and raids, that's cool.  There are many who don't have that. </div>

[Shipwreck_GPA]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><p>the biggest problem ive seen is with yellow/orange conned mobs... we cant compare to dps that is our level our skill on them.</p><p>And no, coyote, if u reading this im not talkin about soloin....</p><hr></blockquote>Seems to me people have pointed out that arrows might be getting blocked way too often. That might account for this......

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GPA_Shipwreck wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><p>the biggest problem ive seen is with yellow/orange conned mobs... we cant compare to dps that is our level our skill on them.</p><p>And no, coyote, if u reading this im not talkin about soloin....</p><hr></blockquote>Seems to me people have pointed out that arrows might be getting blocked way too often. That might account for this......<hr></blockquote><p>After doing alot of XP'ing in groups hitting yellow and orange ^^^ mobs the arrow miss, block, parry rate is making a large portion of this.  If I wish to contribute have decent damage I have to abandon by bow for the most part and just melee.  The number of melee attacks that will hit an orange mob vs bow attacks hitting is huge.  The double standard the Dev's put in that allows casters to recast spells that are resisted in three seconds vs melee classes having to wait the full duration of the refresh cripples melee classes going against orange mobs.</p><p>I know people don't want to hear it and it is stupid.  But if you still want to put up half decent DPS you need to play your ranger like it was an assassin and concentrate on melee skills.  Don't drop the bow completely but limit your use to high damage CA's (stealthy fire, triple arrow, culling and debiliating).  Run in and spamming all the .5 sec cast melee skills and staying in doing duel wield melee while the big bow CA's refresh.</p><p>Unless they change things I also recommend removing or stop using Stream of Arrows.  It is a very low DPS skill compared to your high damage CA's.  With decent haste going or other DPS modifiers duel wield auto attack will do more damage then Stream.</p><p> </p>

[Guy De Alsace]

I spent a couple of hours in sanctum of the scaleborn today too. Was a good group and nobody was [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing about lack of dps or anything. I also seemed to be doing a lot more procs and damage than after LU20 came out. My AP line is helping a bit however the level one skill being a total joke isnt helping. When I see zerkers healing themselves for 1000hp (out of combat) with their lvl 1 skill and us getting 3 silver....really there is no balance at all there...none whatsoever.<span>:smileysad:</span><div></div>

[Fennir]

I am having fun exploring the expansion and questing/XPing in guild groups, but that's why I'm having fun, and not because I'm a ranger.I have already adjusted my playstyle and find my new tactics very similar to what Crychtonn is suggesting:  melee a lot and only waste time in bow range on your big hitters.  I definitely don't feel like a ranger.<div></div>

[Runewind]

After reading a lot of posts I'm starting to think that the arrows being blocked/parried is probably one of the biggest contributers to this problem. And it may be a bug of some sort I think if they fixed that we may just be closer to where we are supposed to be. I don't remember seeing a patch note that said that arrows were now easier to block or parry so I don't know what made this happen.<div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div>I dont remember seein a whole lot of patch notes explainin the changes that were made.... at least 5 major unpublisized nerfs.

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:I am having fun exploring the expansion and questing/XPing in guild groups, but that's why I'm having fun, and not because I'm a ranger.I have already adjusted my playstyle and find my new tactics very similar to what Crychtonn is suggesting:  melee a lot and only waste time in bow range on your big hitters.  I definitely don't feel like a ranger.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>QFE. This, to me, is the biggest problem facing us right now. To put out even adequate DPS, seems like we need to play like junior assassins. And no offense to our evil counterparts, but if I wanted to rely that heavily on melee, I'd have rolled one at the start. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Parries / misses are definitely a BIG part of the ranged problem. SOE needs to address this, b/c Tobias is right - playing my ranger right now just doesn't *feel* like I'm playing a ranger. I feel like I'm level 22 again, reliant mostly on melee but throwing the occasional bow attack for extra flavor.</p><p>I'm not sure I agree with Crychtonn about Stream, though - I'm still doing over 700 dmg per hit with it, it fires every few seconds, and it usually hits. Over a 30 second timespan, I'm not sure I could do more with constant melee and backstabbing. Granted, I'm not parsing and crunching the numbers, but my own thought was actually the opposite - to use Stream as often as possible, not to avoid it altogether. Interested in other thoughts / experiences on this, though.</p>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div>Having a blast too.</div><div>Not having much problems getting into group when I try to ( I usually only group with guildies but last night I put LFG flag up in Sanctuum and was grabbed within 5 minutes).</div><div>My dps is around 400 from what I have been able to parse( mostly fighting heroics mobs a couple levels above me), some will say it's not enough but personally when I see the tank heavy doing around 200 I am happy with that and actually enjoy the fact that heroics yellow mobs don't die in 20 seconds anymore....</div><div> </div><div>My two aes skills are still very usefull and have become handy several times when there was no mezzer in the group.</div><div> </div><div>I can hold my own pretty well against solo or ^ mobs even if they are yellows ( not yellow ^ named though, they seem to have a tonn of hp...).</div><div>I even got jumped by a 58^^ doing a quest yesterday and was able to dispatch him solo without dying and I know most classes would not have been able to do that ( especially when he started knocking me back accross half the zone, a caster would have died from  the first fall...).</div><div> </div><div>Finding some new toys that are making life insteresting ( 9 second delay bow with 70 damage rating, hiting for 1300-1500 with adamantium arrows...).</div><div> </div><div>My group tactics remain the same as before except I now use Stealth Shot( or what ever is the name of the t6 ca in that line) when it is up whereas in the past I probably wouldn't have due to the 3 second casting time ( I only come to melee range for dire blade or to land a point blank shot when the tank is suffering and need a small respite...) Main big change is I now use my defense/Parry debuffs as soon as they are up as they do really help in allowing your arrows to hit their targets ( and they help others melee class a lot too as I had someone in group ask who was debuffing mobs defense and saying it made a big difference for him in the fights I did it...)</div><div> </div><div> </div><p>PS : Parses do show that despite the changes Quick Shot and Poison combined are still around 25% of our damage, some fights it's more, some it's less.....</p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:49 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:50 AM</span></p>

[Br0]

<div></div><div>I gotta say, I'm having fun too.</div><div> </div><div>I am only level 28 (close to 29), but I am having fun with my Ranger.  I guess I always wanted to play one, but it seemed like they were too messed up in EQLive.  I finally decided to play what I wanted to play all these years and started a Ranger.  Little did I know that a few weeks later, they would implement the changes that they did.</div><div> </div><div>I know alot of you have.. but I have to say, I have not noticed a difference.  Alot of that is probably due to my level, but it's also due to my play style.  I typically group with a Warden, so I am the main tank 99% of the time.  Seems like the only arrows I get off are the ones I use to pull with.  Not our specialty, but who cares?  We are plenty effective.</div><div> </div><div>If there's one thing I've learned over the years of playing this game is that, if you are not playing what you want to play, you wont have fun.  If you are playing a Ranger because they are(were) top DPS, then the recent changes might cause you to quit, or even worse, trash your Ranger for a Berserker.  Play a Ranger becuase they are cool.. the fun will come along.  Nerfs or no nerfs.</div><div> </div><div>Just my opinion.. you're welcome to it.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Jantha, Fledgling Ranger of Unrest.</div>

[brandi7920]

<div></div><p>I've got to say that the first evening of KoS was a huge disappointment for me..after that I chose to have fun and be 'blissfully ignorant' (read that earlier - lol). I want to have fun..and so I have been every chance I get. I know my dps is drastically reduced, but I don't know the numbers - and I don't want to know. My friends still welcome me and I know I am contributing. (my disarm trap is totally maxed :smileywink:  j/k )</p><p>I've noticed that alot of my stuff is being blocked and parried as well - and I've become reliant on Snipe and Forester's Noose to help me land attacks. I refresh every chance I get and that seriously helps my attacks land. I don't know that every class is having an issue with attacks landing, but my swashie bf is being blocked/parried alot as well. Between the 2 of us we debuff constantly in order to hit the mobs...it really helps.</p><p>Have fun.. I will be. :smileyhappy:</p><p> </p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Aildiin where did you find the 9 sec delay bow and what are the stats on it.</p><p> </p>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Crychtonn wrote:<div></div><p>Aildiin where did you find the 9 sec delay bow and what are the stats on it.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>It's a reward of the 'peacock like' quest line in KoS ( what I mean by that is that is that it is like the 5th quest down the line, the first quest for Qeynos players starts in North Qeynos in the Irontoe East Inn, it is labbeled ' In service of the Queen').</p><p>Stats were not great ( like 10 str and some other stuff and no proc), damage is listed as 60-562 with the 318 STR I had yesterday.</p><p>Not that great but fun to see the high damage hits. We will get a great bow at 65 though. Grizzlebane errands quest in Bonefire rewards a 6 second delay bow with 80 damage rating, a nice proc and great stats ( to compare crafted rare bow are 59.9 damage rating, I wasn't big on bow damage before but when you reach the 1.5k numbers and you know you can add a crit on top of that it becomes a factor in bow selection...)..........</p><p> </p>

[Jayad]

<div></div>1400 per 9 seconds = ~150 dps.  Not counting procs and haste of course, but don't be fooled by just high hits. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Ganrie]

<div></div><div>Hey I had fun too. I was a 58 (leveled to 59) and I tanked in SC. Had a 58 templar, 53 wiz and a 58 wiz. We killed 56 to 57 heroics. You know those spectral guys. LOL. I also don't pay a lot off attention to stats and other stuff. Just have fun. Anyway, we tried a few and our poor 53 got smacked down a lot. That is when I said let me pull. (Higher level wizzies always want to strike first.) I can take the damage better and I will set traps.</div><div> </div><div>Well that is what I did. Took a few tries and each time got better and better. Soon they were dieing so fast I was laughing. So yea they were blue to me but the were not ^ heroics. I used all of my skills available. (But I always have. Must be the fact that I go through way to many arrows otherwise and never want to be without.)</div><div> </div><div>Soloing takes more thought though. I was killed by something I have killed solo many times before and even using trap and Sniper shot I died. Go figure. I have to go back and figure that out.</div><div> </div><div>We will make it through!</div>

[smoody]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:I am having fun exploring the expansion and questing/XPing in guild groups, but that's why I'm having fun, and not because I'm a ranger.I have already adjusted my playstyle and find my new tactics very similar to what Crychtonn is suggesting:  melee a lot and only waste time in bow range on your big hitters.  I definitely don't feel like a ranger.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>QFE. This, to me, is the biggest problem facing us right now. To put out even adequate DPS, seems like we need to play like junior assassins. And no offense to our evil counterparts, but if I wanted to rely that heavily on melee, I'd have rolled one at the start. <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Parries / misses are definitely a BIG part of the ranged problem. SOE needs to address this, b/c Tobias is right - playing my ranger right now just doesn't *feel* like I'm playing a ranger. I feel like I'm level 22 again, reliant mostly on melee but throwing the occasional bow attack for extra flavor.</p><p>I'm not sure I agree with Crychtonn about Stream, though - I'm still doing over 700 dmg per hit with it, it fires every few seconds, and it usually hits. Over a 30 second timespan, I'm not sure I could do more with constant melee and backstabbing. Granted, I'm not parsing and crunching the numbers, but my own thought was actually the opposite - to use Stream as often as possible, not to avoid it altogether. Interested in other thoughts / experiences on this, though.</p><hr></blockquote><p>I have went back and examined the parses and the Parry rate on our bow skills certainly appears out-of-balance when compared to our melee counterparts. This would certainly explain the "randomness" I sometimes feel is involved in my DPS output. I was actually in a group over the weekend where a guardian had higher DPS than I did on a raid mob. When I look back at the parry rate, I was missing much more than the other classes that were ahead of my DPS in that particular fight. The odd thing, was the very next named, I went from 7th place DPS to 1st place. The only difference I can see in the parser, is the parry rate was much lower in the second and actually appeared more inline with the other melee classes.</p><p>As for SoA, I disagree that this is a useless spell. I am getting an average of 700 damage per shot (when it isn't parried) and I have been seeing procs off of stream shot which is cast by SoA. This spell is still very useful while you are waiting on your bow CAs to refresh. It just doesn't produce the insane damage that it once did.</p><p>Fredethel</p>

[Steezi]

<div>Stream of arrows used to be our best dmg spell. And your right, it does about 750 dmg ever 1.5 seconds. This, however, like u said is only useful when waiting on retimers, or when goin afk. Not enough for me. I'll ranged, bounce in, melee, and most spells timers will be refreshed by then, so no need to stream.</div>