Just because I would like to know

[BedlamX]

Why does a majority of the people(Not Rangers) think Rangers were over powered?  I just checked and an assassin can hit for 89,320 for 1 hit and the highest magical hit is 659,597 by a guardian hell I think most of the top 10 are guardians for that matter most of the high melee hits are assassins. That seems pretty powerfull to me. Granted ranger's used to do 89,320 pts of dmg but that is over the course of a fairly long fight.  As I do not play neither a guardian or assassin are these unusal or common. There are alot of toons that hit this high and I see that the top 100 magical hits all range in the 400k range.  The fact that quite a few toons are doing this makes it look common. What  I do know for a fact I have never even come close to these numbers.  I am certianly not calling for a nerf but I do have the right to. Why should 1 or 2 classes be able to do something I cannot. NM I think I answered my own question those who feel the ranger was over powered was because they couldnt  do it.  and if they couldnt why should anyone else. Pay no attention to this I am bitter and since I have nothing better to do ATM why not ask.BedlamX

[mactru]

Because everyone who's not a ranger don't think that rangers are suppose to do that much damage. They just see that happen and automatically believe we are overpowered. People who don't play rangers probally think we have special abilities like they do that will help us solo, but we don't, we only have damage, and lots of it. With the exception of thorny trap, we have nothing that that will stop a target. But trap doesn't even root the person your attacking, just the others in a group.<div></div>

[Sirlutt]

highest hi tmeans nothing.. those guardian ones were done i think via a ring in a raid instance that does 50% of a mobs HP .. the assassin ones are a specific HO i think.Rangers had some pretty sweet sustainable DPS .. and some ungodly proc rates .. in the order of 58% on each attack that landed to proc poison .. and then 70% to proc a quick Shot aswell.. and then on top of that the Quick Shot itself had a 58% chance to proc a poison .. so on over 60% of our attacks we'd proc about 1200 "bonus" damage.  Thats far too powerful.The smart money would have been on adjusting those proc rates, and not allowing our offensive proc (Quick Shot) to proc poison .. and limiting it to a single proc per hit .. I would have done something like this :halved the proc rates... so now its 29% and 35% (still pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] good)only a single proc per damaging hit, checking Quick Shot first, and if that doesnt proc, checking poison.Those 2 changes alone would have reduced our damage to an aceptable level, and not nerf'd other classes.<div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Nah, its not all that.... people said that rangers were overpowered, well, because they were. Pre patch i could solo anything up to yellow ^^^ conned mobs... even take them down about 25% of the tme, and that to me is overpowered.</p><p>Now that isnt sayin that what happened was justified, because they brought us back further than we were even in start of the game... now we low dps without kiting, and still no utility, while half the mobs in the game now see invis, so whats the point of that...</p><p>What people were lookin at was a 60 ranger goin into Roost solo and comin out 30 mins later with 3 fabled to sell... take away some of the soloin ability and give us dps in groups!</p><p>Stylee's solutions are; put rangers back, lower the % to proc on poison down to like 2-3%, (which was the majority of our xtra dmg, we parsed about the same as casters on single target without it) eliminate stun poison from the game entirely, and give mages an aggro dump... if your still concerned about our soloin, lower our avoidance, make pred armor leather etc...</p><p>Stylee Mc'Ctta 62 ranga Nek server</p><p><Myrmidons></p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div>prev "nah its not that" was to 2nd post my bad =P</div>

[BedlamX]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:highest hi tmeans nothing.. those guardian ones were done i think via a ring in a raid instance that does 50% of a mobs HP .. the assassin ones are a specific HO i think.<font color="#ff0000">Well I respect your opinion but to play devils advocate, I could say that it matters to me and alot of others who will never have the opertunity to score this high. So IMHO i believe they should make the nessary adjustments to the HO and the ring that would not allow this to happen</font><font color="#ff0000">. Isnt that exactly what others were asking the devs to do to the ranger because we were "overpowered". </font>Those 2 changes alone would have reduced our damage to an aceptable level, and not nerf'd other classes.<div></div><font color="#ff0000">What is an acceptable lvl to you I assume you played a ranger. Am I to believe those who play rangers lvled through their 50's thinking they were "overpowered" I never seen on the boards any ranger complaining they were "overpowered"......../Disclaimer     I could of course be wrong there are alot of posts here. Thanks for the input.BedlamX</font><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[Tarryn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div><span><blockquote><font color="#ff0000"> Am I to believe those who play rangers lvled through their 50's thinking they were "overpowered" I never seen on the boards any ranger complaining they were "overpowered"......../Disclaimer     I could of course be wrong there are alot of posts here. Thanks for the input.BedlamX</font></span><hr></blockquote></div></blockquote><p>Of course we were overpowered to some degree.  With a lucky streak of procs, we could do damage that was way out of line.  Without getting lucky with procs, we did a lot, but still Tier 1.  Wizzies and occasionally Assassins could outtamage us sometimes, as it was supposed to be--but not when we were getting a lot of procs.  That problem with procs reached it's ultimate absurdity with 70 rangers in KOS beta, so the devs nerfed it.</p><p>Unfortunately, I don't believe the devs realized the impact their change would have on our class, so as a result we're now broken the other direction.</p><p>We need to be doing equivalent damage to Wizards, Warlocks, and Assassins--pure and simple.  By all the numbers I've seen lately, that is not the case right now.</p>

[BedlamX]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Tarryn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div><span><blockquote><font color="#ff0000"> Am I to believe those who play rangers lvled through their 50's thinking they were "overpowered" I never seen on the boards any ranger complaining they were "overpowered"......../Disclaimer     I could of course be wrong there are alot of posts here. Thanks for the input.BedlamX</font><hr></blockquote></span></div></blockquote><p>Wizzies and occasionally Assassins could outtamage us sometimes, as it was supposed to be--but not when we were getting a lot of procs.  That problem with procs reached it's ultimate absurdity with 70 rangers in KOS beta, so the devs nerfed it.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Exactly they could out damage us and thats the key and since they could thats makes us right where we should have been proc or not, top dps. By your own account we were close  but not so over the top where we couldnt be touched. During Raid's I was being out DPSed by wizzy's all the time. A great deal of the raid  and upper tier mobs are pierce resistent  which counters our DPS.  Those 70th Rangers reaching 4k worth exploited the <font color="#ffcc00">AA</font> system in combination with proc to get that high if in fact it did even occur. So in fact the devs should have adjusted the <font color="#ffff00">AA </font>system for 2 reasons I believe. 1 to reduce the amount of DPS that rangers get at lvl 70 and 2 as to not [Removed for Content] every one off in the mean time. Most of us had no experience with AA and what we never had we would never miss If they had adjusted this instead of proc. I dont think there would be this world wide disgust and I would have never canceled my account.   </font></p><p></p><p>Unfortunately, I don't believe the devs realized the impact their change would have on our class, so as a result we're now broken the other direction.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">They knew what they were doing. They would have us believe with their PR posts that they just didnt realize and their looking into it . Cmon people these people write code for a living they had an idea of the effects but the AA system was their new baby and they didnt want to put the kibosh on their new toys. </font></p><p>We need to be doing equivalent damage to Wizards, Warlocks, and Assassins--pure and simple.  By all the numbers I've seen lately, that is not the case right now.</p><font color="#ff0000">You are exactly correct we should and <font color="#ffff00">MORE</font> since we have no pet or utility. Its our job (we need a ranger union maybe we can go on strike) Just out of curiousuty I wonder if anyone parsed a wizzy using thier AA system at lvl 70 I bet they do pretty outragoius DPS.  I see by the most recent update they made a named mob even stronger. That seemed pretty simple for them to do so I cant really buy their argument about not being able to do it across the board. There are solutions they just dont want to make them. All I can say is dont remain quiet keep up the posts to try and get the point acrossed. They are hoping that this will just die down. </font><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[scivias]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div>highest hi tmeans nothing.. those guardian ones were done i think via a ring in a raid instance that does 50% of a mobs HP .. the assassin ones are a specific HO i think.<font color="#ff0000">Well I respect your opinion but to play devils advocate, I could say that it matters to me and alot of other</font><span></span></div><hr></blockquote>Granted, but all you are saying is "Hello, I am absolutely clueless as to what this numbers mean". If you actually believe that those numbers have anything to do with the damage a class is capable to deal, then it's not only justified to disregard your point, but a mercy.Those numbers are either due to early Combat Revamp bugs or simply spellshields when they reflected Raidmob AE damage, and weren't in any way "done" by the class listed.So repeat after me "Highest magical hit means nothing". Not because we want them to mean nothing, but because they "do" mean nothing.</span></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Scivias is indeed correct... the ring could be used by any member of the raid, guards just have the highest ability to STAY ALIVE LONG ENUFF TO USE IT. And an assassin... i mean cmon we all know about assassinate.... so before u go into talkin about how much a high hit matters to a class, u gotta figure out how that class does their damage... we have a ton of smaller dmg ca's with shorter timers, and we proc a lot.</p><p>Stop saying high hits matter</p><p>Stop saying procs dont.</p><p>it just simply isnt accurate... if u disagree, then i can garauntee that u never used your ranger to even close to its potential. Please Please start lookin at the levels and classes of the people your tryin to refute the claims of.... there is a very good chance that they know more than u do. I would simply never go onto the Swash boards, and start tellin people whats what, how to play their class, and what their function was.....ie.) And that i know better than everyone else because i can play my 39 swashy all day!</p><p>wanna argue that, I'm Stylee on Nek... look me up. Maybe we'll have lunch.</p>

[BedlamX]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>scivias wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div>highest hi tmeans nothing.. those guardian ones were done i think via a ring in a raid instance that does 50% of a mobs HP .. the assassin ones are a specific HO i think.<font color="#ff0000">Well I respect your opinion but to play devils advocate, I could say that it matters to me and alot of other</font><span></span></div><hr></blockquote>Granted, but all you are saying is "Hello, I am absolutely clueless as to what this numbers mean". If you actually believe that those numbers have anything to do with the damage a class is capable to deal, then it's not only justified to disregard your point, but a mercy.<font color="#ff0000">Contrary to your belief I know what the numbers mean and if you read my post I was simply trying to demonstrate how other classes can complain about anything based on the simple fact that they cant do those things LIKE DPS at a high lvl. If you want to make this about me thats ok and if you feel the need to have mercy on me thats your right but I am not the clueless one. You do understand the meaning of devils advocate dont you. My original post was asking why other class complain and think about the ranger being over powered. I put those examples out there because I as a ranger, cant do those things.</font>Those numbers are either due to early Combat Revamp bugs or simply spellshields when they reflected Raidmob AE damage, and weren't in any way "done" by the class listed.<font color="#ff0000">If they were bugs why did'nt the devs fix those? As I stated in my OP I dont play these classes. Perhaps you should read OP to get your bearings straight.</font>So repeat after me "Highest magical hit means nothing". Not because we want them to mean nothing, but because they "do" mean nothing.</span></div><font color="#ff0000">Well that is your opinion I have seen people complain about less on these boards and if highest magical hit means something to me or others that is our right and if I want to complain about it I have that right too. This was all just an example on how other classe can complain about anything that they cant do. So your sarcasm isnt warranted. Just to push your buttons some more if they mean nothing why does SOE post them? They mean something to someone. personally I could care less. It was just a point i was trying to get across.  However  looks like I struck a nerve with you though . Sorry.</font><hr></blockquote></span></div><p>Message Edited by BedlamX on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:47 AM</span></p>

[BedlamX]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><p>Scivias is indeed correct... the ring could be used by any member of the raid, guards just have the highest ability to STAY ALIVE LONG ENUFF TO USE IT. And an assassin... i mean cmon we all know about assassinate.... so before u go into talkin about how much a high hit matters to a class, u gotta figure out how that class does their damage... we have a ton of smaller dmg ca's with shorter timers, and we proc a lot.</p><p>Stop saying high hits matter</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Perhaps I went about this post in the wrong manner I was trying to demonstrate how I or anyone can go into a board and complain about anything simply based on the fact that my toon cant perform that way I could care less if their numbers are so high I play my toon thats it. I dont call for nerfs like others do My point is however valid. Tell an assassin that you are taking away assassinate from them and see how it matters to them. I guarentee they woulndt like it.</font></p><p>Stop saying procs dont.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">I dont recall saying that proc dont count or matter for us. But now that you mention it they shouldnt matter to other classes just like it shouldnt matter to me or any ranger that assassins can assinate for 89k . Or that mages can have pets I could go on and on.</font></p><p>it just simply isnt accurate... if u disagree, then i can garauntee that u never used your ranger to even close to its potential.</p><p><span><font color="#ff0000"> As for a me using my ranger to its full potential what are you talking about if you can name one ranger in all of EQ2 has has hit for 89k or 400k I will bow down to them. I am simply saying WHY DOES EVERYONE other than ranger say we are over powered WHY do they even care.</font></span></p><p></p><p>Please Please start lookin at the levels and classes of the people your tryin to refute the claims of.... there is a very good chance that they know more than u do. I would simply never go onto the Swash boards, and start tellin people whats what, how to play their class, and what their function was.....ie.) And that i know better than everyone else because i can play my 39 swashy all day!</p><p><font color="#ff0000">Who am I trying to refute....... I have never posted on another board calling for nerfs or bashing other classes so if that is what you are implying here you are incorrect. But you helped to make my point why do other do it to us? </font></p><p>wanna argue that, I'm Stylee on Nek... look me up. Maybe we'll have lunch.</p><p><font color="#ff0000">I dont want to argue I think this is a good discussion I just want to know why others feel rangers are so over powered and why they even care in the first place.</font></p><hr></blockquote></span></div>

[scivias]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><font color="#ff0000">Well that is your opinion I have seen people complain about less on these boards and if highest magical hit means something to me or others that is our right and if I want to complain about it I have that right too.</font><hr></blockquote></span></div><hr></blockquote>Thats totally right, there is no law against being like you. Would be hard to enforce, I guess.</span></div>

[BedlamX]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>scivias wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div></div><div><span><blockquote><font color="#ff0000">Well that is your opinion I have seen people complain about less on these boards and if highest magical hit means something to me or others that is our right and if I want to complain about it I have that right too.</font><hr></blockquote></span></div></blockquote>Thats totally right, there is no law against being like you. Would be hard to enforce, I guess.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Against being like me what in the hell did I ever do to you I stated my opinion I didnt rip you for your posts. I love how you pick a snipet from a post and rip it. Ha people like me, its people like you who dont have a clue. You just dont get it do you? I am saying that complaining about that stuff is senseless much like I think you are senseless. I am asking the moderators to lock this post as it has become not what I had intended.  Good luck to you you will need it.</span></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Steezity wrote:<div></div><p>Nah, its not all that.... people said that rangers were overpowered, well, because they were. Pre patch i could solo anything up to yellow ^^^ conned mobs... even take them down about 25% of the tme, and that to me is overpowered.</p><p>Now that isnt sayin that what happened was justified, because they brought us back further than we were even in start of the game... now we low dps without kiting, and still no utility, while half the mobs in the game now see invis, so whats the point of that...</p><p>What people were lookin at was a 60 ranger goin into Roost solo and comin out 30 mins later with 3 fabled to sell... take away some of the soloin ability and give us dps in groups!</p><p>Stylee's solutions are; put rangers back, lower the % to proc on poison down to like 2-3%, (which was the majority of our xtra dmg, we parsed about the same as casters on single target without it) eliminate stun poison from the game entirely, and give mages an aggro dump... if your still concerned about our soloin, lower our avoidance, make pred armor leather etc...</p><p>Stylee Mc'Ctta 62 ranga Nek server</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Before the change rangers could solo yellow ^^^ and instances like roost.  Not going to BS and pretend they couldn't.  My problem is that many other classes could and still can do the same  freaking thing.  Wizards, Illusionist and Coercers can all solo roost.  Wizards, Warlocks, Conjurors and Necro's can all easily solo yellow ^^^.  When the hell do they get their overpowered solo skills nerf'd.</p><p>I never [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed before DoF about how easy the mage classes had it with their abilities to solo instances and farm named heorics.  But after DoF when I gained that similar ability and they all screamed their heads off to get it nerf'd and suceeded in having it taken away.  I sure as hell am going to start [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing and posting to have their solo skills nerf'd and take away their ability to easily kill heroic mobs.</p><p> </p>

[scivias]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:<div><span>Against being like me what in the hell did I ever do to you I stated my opinion I didnt rip you for your posts. I love how you pick a snipet from a post and rip it. Ha people like me, its people like you who dont have a clue. You just dont get it do you? I am saying that complaining about that stuff is senseless much like I think you are senseless. I am asking the moderators to lock this post as it has become not what I had intended.  Good luck to you you will need it.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Feel free. Your OP stated some stupid stuff, later on you went the usual road to either deny you said anything and defending what you deny you havn't said.And since you twice proclaimed that you do have rights to say what you said I felt inclined to agree with you. You DO have the right, and I am by no means trying to take that right from you. You have the right not to know what highest magical hits mean, and you have the right to ignore the explanation. You have a valid point in what you say, as long as you claim the right not to learn.That's perfeclty fine by me, just don't violate my right not to play along with your scheme.</span></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>2 very important things.... First, Bedlam. What we are attempting to say with the high hit thing, is that high hits are not where a rangers dmg comes from. It is, however, where assassins, and wizards do theirs. I wasnt tryint to argue that high hits never matter, only that a high hit to a ranger means near nothing, as our damage comes from multiple shots and procs... sure we do have a few high hits, but nothing compared to other classes, so we attempt to stay away from it. (i.e. a ranger that can hit twice as hard as another can still EASILY be outparsed in the same number of swings because of procs, multiple hits etc) So i apologize for the misconception that what we are saying is that high hits never matter for any class...</p><p>second, any class that has a high hit that is not an assassin or a wizard is using an IN GAME ITEM to do the damage. This is not a bug. This is not an ability. This is an item that is specifically crafted INSIDE of a raid zone with the specific intent of killing ONE raid mob. U make the item to kill the mob. Its part of the raid. Once used, the item drains the mob of 1/2 of his hp INSTANTLY  (this is why u see guardians with such big hits)</p><p>Bedlam, this is what everyone is gettin on your case about... simple misconception. Some people flamin u may think that these are bugs, some may know the truth but cant explain it properly, and some may just be very angry about nerf, and sick of attempting to explain to people how and why we are broken... but i hope that this makes more sense, and we can all get back to hating mages like we are supposed to instead of each otha!</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta (Nek)</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div>Also just because a post is right after yours, dont think that everything it says is in reference to you... they may be attemptin to correct several posts at once.

[King Leor]

<div>Phew, now that I'm no longer banned from the forums I can finally comment on this. For one BedlamX, those high hits are from after the expansion hit when people could go hit a lvl 3 toon and do stupid dmg. People dont do that dmg for PvE. Secondly, those guardian hits are from a symbol that is crafted in the Gates of Ahket, (living tombs raid instance) and it's used to take the riad mobs health down 50% so those hits mean [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] all. Now what they did to us was very sad and stupid I agree. BTW anyone who was wondering what I was banned for 3 days for is correcting a mods spelling..lol. He sent me  PM saying that if i continue he will remove my "posting privlidges". So I coudln't resist and reply back to him that he spelt "privlidges" wrong and that the actual spelling was privileges, than next thing after that I was suspended form posting..lol. But anywas, IM BACK!!!</div><div> </div><div>Leoric</div><div>Level 60 ([Removed for Content]) ranger</div>

[Steezi]

<div></div>mods...

[scivias]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>King Leoric wrote:<div>BTW anyone who was wondering what I was banned for 3 days for is correcting a mods spelling..lol.</div><hr></blockquote>I'm sure your overall ranting about SOE and ranger nerf had nothing to do with it.</span></div>

[Gareorn]

<div>ROFLMAO!  Leoric, your killing me.  Now I have to go get a rag to wipe the coffee off my monitor.</div>

[BedlamX]

To all:I suspose I was trying to get a point across and went about it the wrong way or I couldnt convey my thoughts. I truely dont care where these high hits come from. I dont care if another class can do these things. My point is that there are alot of non rangers coming on to this forum and adding their imput calling us overpowered ect ect ect. I wanted to know why they thought we were overpowered I never got a real answer. I personally feel that it stems on plain and simple jealousy. Other classes are jealous that the ranger was able to DPS better than most. How in any way does our DPS effect their game play in a negative maner... NONE. They just want to be top dog. My example of the high hit dilema was to show how petty people are in thier complaining about nothing and to show how easy it is to make those complaints based on ZERO knowledge. Having the highest melee hit doesnt affect my game play at all the proc changes, longer cast times, nerfed ringsand lag does.I personally dont feel we were overpowered. I feel that because the Ranger lacks in so many departments we were entitled to highest DPS. The Devs stated that taking the procs and AA in to account the ranger was producing over 4000DPS I happen to feel that they could have adjusted the AA system but it was their new toy so they werent going to touch that. I think that SOE cares nothing for any player just the bank account. I think that SOE was extremely wrong in doing these things 1 week before going live. It shows how irresponsible that company is.  We are the customers bottom line. We deserve better. Any player that feels SOE will fix the problem or in some way will make things better I feel for you. Keep making your payments while having less fun. I refuse and it wont affect SOE in the littlest but I feel better knowing I will no loner be paying for an inferior product. I have been reading these forums for the last 2 weeks and the only responce we could get is that they are looking into it HA.  I am will to make any wager in the world that SOE ignors this problem for at least 8 weeks. Someone said it best that if every ranger canceled their account SOE would make the nessesary changes tommorow and that person in my eyes couldnt be more correct. For Me SOE has 3 days to make this better if not so be it.One last note all of those other classes comming in here and calling for nerfs you can all kiss my .............you get the point.  BedlamX

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Bedlam... point taken. I definately agree that other classes call for nerfs on us because their jelous... it doesnt make much sense any other way, as we were on of the main reasons that they were able to get the gear and levels that they have now...</p><p>ps we were overpowered because of stun poison. Other classes would hear what we could do without seeing it, and go fetal.</p><p>I dont know how many times it needs to be said, but stun poison was all i could see that made us overpowered. It wasnt that we were too much dps, it was that other classes that should be higher just werent... ie wizzys. So soe, instead of nerfing ever class in the game, give us our [Removed for Content] playability back, and if that really presents a problem, give some mobs a little bonus to hp.</p><p>Some classes were not desinged to be able to solo, so balance is ridiculous. What templar can solo anything?</p><p>as of right now, the classes that have higher dps potential (similarly geared t7)  that we do are ;</p><p>Warlocks, conj, necro, assassin, swash, brigand, monk, bruiser, illusionist, fury.</p><p>The only three classes that should compare to ranger dps are warlock, wiz and assassin... and wizards are broken. Rangers are broken. So soe, two of your main dps classes are broken. Not only do rangers need a fix, but wizzys as well.... and im notta troll. I cant play a caster for my life...</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta</p>