quit eq? tons of rangers want to...

[strider19]

<div>So we are all mad about this nerfage.  I agree that we were too much dps, but geez, now we are useless.  I'm taking the advice of another poster to get our voices heard.  I'm gonna compare levels of rangers and w other classes.  I have a lvl 13 ranger and a lvl 35 ranger.  Both useless now, I don't use my bow anymore.  A ranger doesn't use his bow?  I think something is wrong with that.  I've played many other classes, take my pally for example.  i can solo groups of heroic mobs that are one level lower than me.  With my ranger, either of them, I'm lucky to kill one of the mobs before I die.</div><div> </div><div>Just using pally as an example since I play one as well as an alt, not calling for a nerf or anything on that class.</div><div> </div><div>Pally against group of mobs: Charge in and fight for 30 seconds, heal self, keep doing that until you kill whole group. (my own experience).</div><div> </div><div>Ranger against group of mobs: Shoot one of the mobs, take health down 1/20th of the way, have all mobs rush you, can't do any up close damage and die in 5 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>Pally against solo mob: Same deal as above.</div><div> </div><div>Ranger against solo mob: Shoot mob like above, take down very little health, begin to cast second shot when mob runs into minimum range.  Start meleeing (not effective) Stun mob, run behind it, by the time you get behind it it's unstunned (nerfed stun), fight melee til you realize mob outdps's you and you can't tank worth poop.</div><div> </div><div>In a group situation:</div><div> </div><div>less dps than mages/other scouts/brawlers...no utilities at all...only debuffs/stuns (both very weak and not even worth it) are close range.  No ranged HOs..sigh we are useless SOE please realize this.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I will continue to play a ranger, in a way I'm happy all the idiot glory hunters left the class, but now we just suck.  It's the eq1 ranger all over again, PLEASE SOE listen to us this time.  Don't be like eq1 days, listen to your customers, it makes them happy, it makes the game more fun, stop abusing rangers<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  we have feelings too!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Amara Peacegiver]

How can you possibly say we were too much dps?  It's all we had and without it, we are a broken class.  We offer no utility to a group that is either worth mentioning or that another class can do better.I disagree with that.  Rangers were not too much DPS.<div></div>

[GPA_Coyote]

<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p>Because they got used to it.</p><p>Seriously - color codes are there for a reason - when a class, ANY class routinely exceeds those codes, there is an issue.</p><p>Yeah - I know the arguement "This class can do it, that class can do it" blah blah  - they're broken too then.</p><p>If yer [Removed for Content] because you can't solo a mob 2 levels above you that cons "suitable for a group of three or more adventurers" you are a whack job and need to step back and look at the situation.</p><p> </p>

[NovacaineExpre]

<div></div><p>If I do quit it won't be the fact that rangers were nerfed horribly.  But the fact that this 14 + month rollercoaster is beginning to cause my head to spin way too much.  Every 2-3 LU's another class is "broken" or "nerfed."  When is this going to end?  It has been over a year of live play and SOE still can't figure out a way to balance all the classes?  I am sorry but this is unexcusible. </p><p>Dear Sony, where can I sign up to get a job at Sony?  I would love to work for a company where I can get things right 50% of the time and still be commended for my work.  (or maybe a weatherman but thats a different story)</p><p> </p>

[El Dominion]

<div>I stopped playing my main Templar after the combat update.</div><div> </div><div>Wanted another class that was going to be fun - Ranger <em><strong>was</strong></em> that class, but no more.</div><div>I was a good Ranger but not a great Ranger, i could solo yellow 1^ and it was FUN, now i hate it.</div><div> </div><div>I almost quit the whole game over this, and the previous changes demanded due to PvP</div><div> </div><div>I do not want PvP i didnt buy the game for that. I have no objection to others wanting it, just keep a diffent server with a different set of combat stats for those ballanced servers and leave the PvE servers alone.</div><div> </div><div>I dont care if you keep the procs away, althought the lightening strikes from imbued weapons was part of the fun element, just give me my dps back or this will be the second toon ill have to dump.</div><div> </div><div>I will take the first oppertunity to move to another MMORPG if this is not addressed, even though i have ploughed hours into my 6 toons from launch, cant you get it SOE we are [Removed for Content] off at having out characters changed.</div>

[GPA_Coyote]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>El Dominion wrote:<div> </div><div>I was a good Ranger but not a great Ranger, i could solo yellow 1^ and it was FUN, now i hate it.</div><div> </div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>...sounds like a great ranger to *me*. My swash can take a vyellow and live MOST of the time.</p><p>I wanna know why "color codes" are so hard for people to accept?  A ^yellow fight should be a GOOD fight at any level at any class. ^yellow should indicate "Hey, I might get my backside served to me with a dish of creamed califlower" not, "oooh..easy XP".</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>/nod coyote i agree solo ablility was waaaay outta wack.... while only a few rangers out there could kill a yellow con (thats just unfeasable usually) my 60 ranger pre patch would solo names like Karmut the Conqueror with EASE...never touched. (I mean, stun poison, thorny trap... u couldnt solo with that go read a book. Instances up thru roost were a cakewalk)...Eliminate stun poison, considering that this was its only use, and u have completely eliminated rangers ability to solo ridiculous mobs.</p><p>this nerf was by far the biggest that has occured in the game so far... dps is cut in less than half. Considering that we are the only 0 utility class in the game, it just seems right that we should dps well. ( dont count amazing shot or our unparalleled pulling ability as utility... thats just caust that ranga is a sick mofo) Lemme say it bluntly, because it seems like everyone is skirting the fact that a ranger's dps IS procs. Thats what we are, thats what we specialized in. Predator should be the premier dps class in the game. I mean assassin. cmon that just screams it...</p><p>Now. Half of our ca's cast more than one arrow. (not counting ae's cause we have 2 and they not nerfed as bad) When u a; eliminate all procs that arent cast by first arrow, then b; lower the occurence of ALL procs by about 75%, then c; take what was originally one of the best spells in the game, and the reason that rangers could do consistant dps (stream o course) and u make it cast slower, proc NERVER, and just all around make it a nasty lookin thing, (while still keepin mega hate gain) u manage to create the biggest fall any class has taken. imagine the illusionists root nerf, add in the fact that all mezzes last 1/4 the time, maybe add in a little breeze nerf, and then have a few people roll by to kick him in the balls while he chokin.</p><p> by the by...any class can take an blue or green con heroic mob and solo it every 15 minutes while spells refresh...(see LT anytime ever.... there is always someone of any class farming for the conj staff solo) soe if u rilly wanna [Removed for Content] people off make it so SKILL is required for us to dps like we used too... that way u stop all the peeps rerolling everytime some class gets "overpowered"!!!</p><p>Now!! Time for Stylee's ultimate fix.... EVERYONE GET THIS... they will all stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing!</p><p>Ranger- lotsa small dmg ca's, tons of procs, quick timers    Assassin- Huge damage ca's, lower procs, longer times</p><p>prebrig nerf, leave other scouts. Here is the kicker..... GIVE MAGES AGGRO DUMPS! thats all it will take! i swear it on my rangerhood... a mage with an aggro dump is one that stops screamin everyone else to be nerfed! And honestly, who but assassins and mages were screamin for ranger nerfs?</p><p>ok sorry to flood the whole page, if anyone actually reads this lemme know whatchyall think.</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta 62 ranga Nek <Myrmidons></p>

[davian9]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Amara Peacegiver wrote:How can you possibly say we were too much dps?  It's all we had and without it, we are a broken class.  We offer no utility to a group that is either worth mentioning or that another class can do better.I disagree with that.  Rangers were not too much DPS.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I have a lvl 60 asn.  A tier 1 DPS class with just as little utility as a ranger.  There is no way in hell I could do even a quater of the stuff rangers could do pre LU 20. </p><p>It still supprises me that there are some (NOT ALL) but some people out there that will still defend the lvl of dammage a ranger could do pre LU20.  Rangers were WAY overpowered.</p><p>You need a nerf and a rather big one at that.  Did you get nerfed to hard?  Probably (and I think that SOE should give rangers some DPS back).  But you should be no where near as powerful as you were preLU 20.</p><p>My lvl 60 asn can kill yellow ^ mobs with over 50% health left, and I concider that good.  You realy need to lower your expectation of what your ranger should be ablt to do.  Yes they need some fixing but the were NOT doing a proper amount or DPS pre LU20.  I know this first hand because I have a ranger alt.</p>

[Katzil]

<blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Am I the only one that has a real problem with these kinds of statements?  No offense GPA_Coyote .. but have you ever personally SEEN a 60 ranger solo a ^^^ yellow con?  I've been 60 for months now.  All tradeskill legendary + all Adept III or better + a couple of the lower tiered Poets' fabled.  That probably puts me in top 15%.  I've played EQ for 5 years now .. a 68 shaman with 380+AA's and now a ranger .. I research my class and think I know it reasonably well. </p><p>I personally would never think to TRY soloing a ^^^yellow con before the latest changes.  Do I think I could?  MAYBE (if it was massively overconned; luck was on my side; it was open air with no other aggro for miles; using expensive cobalt arrows, 5 stacked potions AND I was prepared to spend 1 to 3 hours picking away at it).  I'm being serious here.  There's a serious difference between something that's 'theoretically possible for bragging rights' and 'practical'. </p><p>Many of us have seen the 300 safe fall ranger jump into the pit in Sol Eye and survive.  WOW.  Impressive, right?  Not many bothered to look at the series of 'you have died due to pain and suffering' lines that preceded the successful jump.  </p><p>Sure, I'm not a raiding Ranger.  Perhaps such a thing is possible if one has killed all end-game mobs and acquired top-end fabled gear.  That I would not know .. nor would 99% of other rangers.  My hat's off to them if they can solo ^^^yellows.  After hundreds of hours raiding, deaths, repairs, and raid drama, they deserve it.  This does NOT, however represent the norm .. nor should it be construed as a benchmark for balancing characters. </p><p>I can not, nor can envision .. ever bothering to solo a ^^^blue+ con.  I honestly can't remember the last time I bothered to even try a green one .. if I ever did (other than Harclave & after they were upgraded, of course). </p><p>Please .. gross exaggeration or reporting of fringe incidents .. not helpful!</p><div></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p>Because they got used to it.</p><p>Seriously - color codes are there for a reason - when a class, ANY class routinely exceeds those codes, there is an issue.</p><p>Yeah - I know the arguement "This class can do it, that class can do it" blah blah  - they're broken too then.</p><p>If yer [Removed for Content] because you can't solo a mob 2 levels above you that cons "suitable for a group of three or more adventurers" you are a whack job and need to step back and look at the situation.</p><hr></blockquote><p>i don't think not beeing able to solo those mobs anymore is really the issue. at least for most of us. those things wheren't done by the majority of rangers. sure not by me :smileyhappy:</p><p>problem is, those stunts where mostly only possible with stun poisons procing like mad, and i bet stream of arrows at point blank was great help too. the stream was changed in LU19. in LU20 they changed proc mechanics, reducing our procs by a lot, and therefore stun poison is not so reliable anymore.problem is: stun poison is one thing, but a lot of our damage came from procs. with the proc changes, most of that damage is lost. the damage done by rangers may have been over the top, and i think the concept with procs beeing calculated from weapon delay and not CA cast time was flawed. but with those procs lost it seems it went a tad too far.</p><p>but i still need to do some more testing. have mostly grinded discovery AA the last 2 evenings :smileyvery-happy: what's most important of all to me: will i still have fun, especially when hunting solo? i'll look and see.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><div>Quit perpetuating the stupid stun nerf myth. Cheap Shot is the same as it has been for months now. On solo mobs, it's 6 seconds. On about ^ it's about 2 seconds and heroics I haven't gotten it to work on at all.</div><div> </div><div>I use this skill on a daily basis, now and before LU20, because I'm a soloer and melee is part of my repertoire. It has NOT been changed. I would not be able to Cheap Shot, Pouncing Attack, Crippling Blade, Surveil and Raven Embers a mob all while it was stunned if it had been nerfed, and I was doing this last night.</div><div> </div><div>Stun is fine. Yeesh.</div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:01 PM</span></p>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><p>Davian999</p><p>Two things.</p><p>1.  Did you ever think that maybe your class need a DPS increase and not someone else's needing a decrease?  I am not saying Rangers didn't need one.</p><p>2. you say you can kill yellow ^ mobs and have 50% life left good for you, but by your own logic then you need to have a damage decrease because several rangers are now posting that they cannot even solo regular blue mobs.  A blue arrow down mob can get me to 50% if the random number generator doesn't go my way and proc in a fight.  PLEASE PLEASE don't think I want your class damage decrease because I dont.  I wouldnt want that wished on any class.</p><p>If Wizards werent doing T1 damage then fix them.  If another class is doing too much then fix them.  BUT do it intelligently. Parse the change, test it look at all its implications not just to the class but to the community as a whole as well.</p>

[Bro]

Unfortunately, it happened quite a lot. Soloing the Roost was doable, all it took was a couple of stun potions.Fixing that would have been easy, ie remove our ability to stun & root a mob. Delete the stun potions. But no, instead the nuclear nerf option was primed & fired.What we are is in our name.. RANGEr. Without the range, we're just an r.<div></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Katzilla wrote:<blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Am I the only one that has a real problem with these kinds of statements?  No offense GPA_Coyote .. but have you ever personally SEEN a 60 ranger solo a ^^^ yellow con?  I've been 60 for months now.  All tradeskill legendary + all Adept III or better + a couple of the lower tiered Poets' fabled.  That probably puts me in top 15%.  I've played EQ for 5 years now .. a 68 shaman with 380+AA's and now a ranger .. I research my class and think I know it reasonably well. </p><p>I personally would never think to TRY soloing a ^^^yellow con before the latest changes.  Do I think I could?  MAYBE (if it was massively overconned; luck was on my side; it was open air with no other aggro for miles; using expensive cobalt arrows, 5 stacked potions AND I was prepared to spend 1 to 3 hours picking away at it).  I'm being serious here.  There's a serious difference between something that's 'theoretically possible for bragging rights' and 'practical'. </p><p>Many of us have seen the 300 safe fall ranger jump into the pit in Sol Eye and survive.  WOW.  Impressive, right?  Not many bothered to look at the series of 'you have died due to pain and suffering' lines that preceded the successful jump.  </p><p>Sure, I'm not a raiding Ranger.  Perhaps such a thing is possible if one has killed all end-game mobs and acquired top-end fabled gear.  That I would not know .. nor would 99% of other rangers.  My hat's off to them if they can solo ^^^yellows.  After hundreds of hours raiding, deaths, repairs, and raid drama, they deserve it.  This does NOT, however represent the norm .. nor should it be construed as a benchmark for balancing characters. </p><p>I can not, nor can envision .. ever bothering to solo a ^^^blue+ con.  I honestly can't remember the last time I bothered to even try a green one .. if I ever did (other than Harclave & after they were upgraded, of course). </p><p>Please .. gross exaggeration or reporting of fringe incidents .. not helpful!</p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah we could solo yellow ^^^.</p><p>I was doing it and so were otheres rangers on my server...</p><p>To name a few those I remember soloing are Aysor and his eye in PPR as well as every named in ring of Fate up to the third Djinn Dao ( never could solo that guy because of his parry rate...Grrrr). ANd no you don't need cobalt arrows or 5 potions and the kill took at most 50 seconds....</p><p>As for heroics blue some of us had a routine where we would do Roost, Hidden Cache, Vaults of Dust and Sanctorium in less than 1h30.</p><p>And I'm not a raiding ranger, my str is only 264 and the only fabled I have is PPR/Roost/Silent City quality fabled, not the good one, you can check my eq on Eq2players if you don't believe me...</p><p>All you needed to solo yellows is stun potion and a trap , it wasn't even like there even was secret tactics involved</p><p> </p><p>As for those reporting they can not solo ^ mobs well  maybe if there is a lag spike because otherwise we still can without problem...</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p><span class="time_text">Those rangers changes were bad and we need to get something back but as long as every other post is misinformation or that people don't admit we were too powerfull before, we will never get anywhere....</span></p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:51 AM</span></p>

[chanaho]

<span><blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p>Because they got used to it.</p><p>Seriously - color codes are there for a reason - when a class, ANY class routinely exceeds those codes, there is an issue.</p><p>Yeah - I know the arguement "This class can do it, that class can do it" blah blah  - they're broken too then.</p><p>If yer [Removed for Content] because you can't solo a mob 2 levels above you that cons "suitable for a group of three or more adventurers" you are a whack job and need to step back and look at the situation.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>Coyote,  I liked your comical write  up but your post here does not fit the majority of the ranger class.There may have been some, but I dont know of many Rangers that could take down ^^^ yellows oreven cons or blue cons 1 - 2  lvls lower with normal range/melee skills(see below). You normallyjust cant burn them down far enough on pulls before they got to you and beat you to the ground.   Now some may try yellow ^^^ to have fun and just say they could do it and hope on pull that allbows hit max dmg./ poisons proc / quick strike / and melee weapon procs (when that worked)and if they were down far enough maybe could finish with melee and survive. (Ok, im talking aboutme) but it was a 1 in 10 chance to end fight on the winning side. I saved deaths mainly by theirhealth bar..if it wasnt near red then i would break and run before it got to me. But this was for fun,in wide open semi safe spots and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sure not for exp.  On the other hand, with stream of arrows, thorny trap and a stun poison (which I rarely use) you couldbasically use high damage ca's to pull mobs and with the high proc rate on the stuns  keep hittingwith bow ca's at range..when the stuns finally wouldnt proc and they closed in, they ran into thorny trap.Now just turn on SToA and finish and if they did manage to get to you, usually they were far enough downwhere you would win before being beaten to a pulp.  Without stun poisons I could usually only count on beating heroics at 3 lvls below me with my healthat 1/3 to 1/2 as once the mob got to me it was to pulverise them with SToA before they floored me.  Now to my point, before lu20 (lu19) SToA was nerfed where it would no longer work once the mobgot to you. This effectively made it solo unfriendly. lu19 also had other procing changes whichhurt the number of procs happening. This knocked you down from using SToA with stuns tothe point where it was a crap shoot to use for heroics. So even before lu20 we were being gimped from soloing these ^^^ yellows. And as alot of Rangershave said the best thing could have been is to just remove stun poisons ...period. Without stunsand SToA not working at melee range soloing any heroics would have been a challenge to all butthe Rangers that were determined to do it.  Since the proc rates were also modified prior to lu20 I had already noticed a reduction in DPSin both Solo and Grp's. I think LU20 was totally unneeded. After all the other changes they couldhave waited  to see how these changes actually worked in live. Lu20 just put the nail in the coffinfor DPS wether grp'd or solo.  </span><div></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>I am a Ranger.</p><p>I have always been a Ranger in all the on-line games I have played.  I have no real interest in playing other classes.  I am not really concerned whether or not a Ranger is the highest DPS class, or the second highest, or the third.  I really am not absorbed in parses or in statistics.</p><p>I am a solo player.</p><p>I have always played solo in all the on-line games I have played.  I have joined guilds before, and contributed to their activities.  I have made in-game friends over the years.  I group on occasion, and like to think I am a positive element when I do. But my personal preference is to lead a solitary existence.  Such is the nature of a Ranger.</p><p>I am a role-player.</p><p>I immerse myself in the world I am in.  I participate in quests and GM events.  I join role-playing forums and events.  I tell stories and I cosnstruct and run player-made Quests.  MMORPGs are a fantasy escape for me, even more than they are a game.</p><p>I feel disappointed and angry. </p><p>You have robbed me.  You have robbed my of my time.  Real life time.  The time I spent developing my character.  The time I spent learning your world, it's history, and it's lore.</p><p>I can no longer solo effectively with my Ranger.  You are forcing me to play in a way I do  not choose to.  I must now choose to play a different class that can solo more effectively, or I must now group more often with my Ranger.</p><p>I have not exploited anything.  I have played since launch, and yet I am only 41st level.  I have only Adept 1 spells, and my gear is mediocre.</p><p>I feel betrayed.</p><p>You have made these changes to accomodate PvP.  Something you <strong><em>promised</em></strong>  you would never do!  You have made your determinations on what Rangers can do based on fully buffed, Rangers with fabled gear who are in a raid or group situation.  I am not THAT Ranger!  You care nothing about me, or my situation.</p><p>Please fix this.  As of now, I really have no compelling reason to keep playing.</p>

[kc10boom]

<div>Quitting yes was the nerf the sole reason ... no but it was the icing on the cake.  The lag was BAD before the server merges and after it was even worse.  Yes the patches helped a little bit but still very bad in some areas.  Also with the bugs and crashes after server updates made the game very unplayable.  I was half way out the door before, this just pushed me the rest of the way out.</div><div> </div><div>Enjoy the bugs and crashes!</div>

[kartikeya]

<div></div><p>We could indeed solo ^^^ mobs. I did it. I did it without stun poison as well. I also died many, many, many times doing it. Why did I do it? I wanted to see if I could. It was by no means easy. I needed a melee mob, and I need a really wide open space to run, and I needed to time my stuff just right. I did try it with stun poisons, but it was just so cheesy (and expensive). Many classes can do this, and do it better.</p><p>All of that is moot though. I don't care about soloing ^^^ heroic mobs. It was fun while it lasted and I knew it wouldn't last long. I do, however, expect to be able to solo mobs that are designed for solo players. That's a reasonable request, isn't it?</p><p>Okay, here's what I can do /now/. If the mob is blue, even, or yellow, I can kill it /if/...IF...I proc. If I don't proc, I'm doomed. My damage is completely and utterly random. I may as well be throwing dice at the screen. These are on down arrow mobs, or no arrow mobs.</p><p>Solo ^ mobs? Haha, forget it. You have to kite them, and room to kite is an extreme rarity now. Even kiting, they still nearly killed me. And sometimes they did. And it was all depending on that damned RNG, not my own skills. If I proc, I'll probably win. If I don't, I'm toast. Not my idea of fun.</p><p> </p>

[FunkBudd]

<div>man, i used to look forward to friday nights with my ranger... getting in a group or soloing til 4-5am... i would parse the data on my laptop beside me and try to improve my efficiency for maximum dps. now, it's friday and i'm not the least bit excited... my ranger is crap. all that time spent raising plat to buy rares for gear and spell upgrades down the toilet. i have no desire to put that much time into another class that's just gonna get nerfed all to hell.</div><div> </div><div>i've tried to stay positive on this, but it's tough. i've tried everything i can think of to get my dps up, but i'm not having much luck. sorry, but this bs. i have 3 high level crafters i can play i guess... fun fun fun. my cousin's been wanting to get into eq2... maybe i'll just give him my account so he doesn't have to [Removed for Content] his money away buying it.</div><div> </div><div>later.</div><div> </div>

[Infinity0]

<p>I have a Wizard main and from my observation, from the outside looking in Rangers no longer do the job of Tier 1 DPS I was not one of the mages crying nerf rangers, due to the fact I believe a class that must pay so much money to do damage and have minimal utility should excel above the rest in their primary proficiency.  I had the opportunity to group with a few Rangers yesterday that I always group with, for some reason they all logged after about 30 minutes of play. Last night fights where taking forever with the same people, so I decided to start parsing.  Dirge, Wizard, Conjurer and Berserker easily did 25-50% more damage than our Rangers.</p><p>I honestly believe SOE dropped the ball big time with this Ranger nerf do they have a clue about customer relations, product expectations, brand marketing?<span>  </span>Since I was there for the SWG debacle when I think about SOE I see a company that pulls the rug from under their customers feet, after they invested copious amounts of time and money into their products.<span>  </span>To the Wizards/Mages that helped bring upon this unneeded super nerf of rangers, how long do you honestly think it will be until we feel the wrath of the SOE dev sledgehammer?</p><div></div>

[Jay]

<div></div><div></div><p>I'm surprised all of these points are getting kicked to death in thread after thread; I assumed we'd be moving onward by now, not debating irrelevant issues that are history anyway.</p><p>Here are some realities:</p><p>1. We WERE overpowered. Now we're not. Get used to it and strive to be the best you can, roll an alt, or quit.</p><p>2. Some of us WILL stay here and fight for the class. We're going to be reasonable about it. We're not going to demand a complete rollback. We're going accept the realignment of our class, but we're going to push for some additional changes that will moderate the impact on our DPS. We won't get it all back, but we need more that we're currently getting.</p><p>2. NO class should solo yellow ^^^ mobs. They're Heroic. Meant for groups. Yes, some classes can still do it, and best wishes to them for enjoying it while they can. When the Nerf Fairy visits the summoners' and sorcerors' houses, I hope they wake up a little less mauled than we did.</p><p>3. We are not useless. If YOU are useless, the problem is the player, not the class. Besides, I disarm traps like there's no tomorrow. You realize that those those exploding boxes are a HUGE threat, don't you?? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>4. According to the con system, yellow ^ mobs are just about the toughest enemies that any single player should be able to beat. Many classes can't; some can. If swashies can't, go get that worked on. If rangers can't, we'll work on that here.</p><p>5. Rangers are not the only zero-utility class in the game. There isn't ANY class with zero utility. Assassins don't get any more utility than we do; sorcs could arguably get a bit more, but that's too subjective to establish, and the point isn't who gets more utility, the point is that all four classes are *supposed* to provide the highest DPS in the game. That's the purpose of those professions; the utility is extra flavor. Nobody recruits an assassin into a raid for pathfinding. Nobody invites a wizard into a raid to buff STR.</p><p>Does that about cover it? Sorry for the lack of sympathy and commiseration, but I'm not a therapist and I lose patience pretty quickly. Again, feel free to vent and blow off steam, but at some point you need to decide whether you're going to stay on the path you've been travelling, or jump ship. Dredging up the same tired arguments isn't getting you any closer to making that choice.</p><p>Message Edited by Jay42 on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:09 PM</span></p>

[Jagdwol]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p>Because they got used to it.</p><p>Seriously - color codes are there for a reason - when a class, ANY class routinely exceeds those codes, there is an issue.</p><p>Yeah - I know the arguement "This class can do it, that class can do it" blah blah  - they're broken too then.</p><p>If yer [Removed for Content] because you can't solo a mob 2 levels above you that cons "suitable for a group of three or more adventurers" you are a whack job and need to step back and look at the situation.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>GPA the problem is not that they can't do that anymore the problem is SOE SCREWED UP. They went from making Rangers doing way too much DPS to now where Healers are out DPSing them. That is like saying "Hey to put out the fire in the house bulldoze the house". More planning obviously should of went into this change. Rangers are supposed to be a Tier 1 DPS Class above most other classes but below Wizzies in that tier. They are also supposed to be Bow Masters. I think Ranger I think Legolas not someone from the Special Olympics Nerf Archery Team. Hell my main is an Assassin and I symphatize for the Rangers in regards to this.

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>Jay42;</p><p>I respect you for what you have done, and are continuing to try to do, for the Ranger class.  You say your patience is worn thin by those complaining and wanting to quit.</p><p>I guess you are entitled to your opinion.  However, you seem to paint with a very large brush.  Our complaints are legitimate.  I am not complaining about no longer soloing ^^^ Mobs!  I never was able to do that. </p><p>I am not complaining that Rangers are not a T-1 DPS class.  I don't know, or care about that. </p><p>I am a solo player.</p><p>I am complaining about the scarcity of solo MOBs vis-a-vie group MOBs, and the fact that now it is even MORE difficult to solo. (if not practically impossible)</p><p>If you want to consider that 'whining', then i guess I will have to live with that.</p><p>The fact is: I can no longer play this game the way I prefer to play it.</p><p>And for what reason?  Becuase some fully buffed, uber-geared Ranger on a raid out DPS a Magician?  Or is it because Rangers were over-powered for PvP?</p><p>I feel like all the investment in time, effort and money for the last year and a half has been wasted, through nothing which I have done wrong.</p><p>Bitter?  You bet I am.</p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>strider1987 wrote:<div>So we are all mad about this nerfage.  I agree that we were too much dps, but geez, now we are useless.  I'm taking the advice of another poster to get our voices heard.  I'm gonna compare levels of rangers and w other classes.  I have a lvl 13 ranger and a lvl 35 ranger.  Both useless now, I don't use my bow anymore.  A ranger doesn't use his bow?  I think something is wrong with that.  I've played many other classes, take my pally for example.  i can solo groups of heroic mobs that are one level lower than me.  With my ranger, either of them, I'm lucky to kill one of the mobs before I die.</div><div> </div><div>Just using pally as an example since I play one as well as an alt, not calling for a nerf or anything on that class.</div><div> </div><div>Pally against group of mobs: Charge in and fight for 30 seconds, heal self, keep doing that until you kill whole group. (my own experience).</div><div> </div><div>Ranger against group of mobs: Shoot one of the mobs, take health down 1/20th of the way, have all mobs rush you, can't do any up close damage and die in 5 seconds.</div><div> </div><div>Pally against solo mob: Same deal as above.</div><div> </div><div>Ranger against solo mob: Shoot mob like above, take down very little health, begin to cast second shot when mob runs into minimum range.  Start meleeing (not effective) Stun mob, run behind it, <font size="4"><strong>by the time you get behind it it's unstunned (nerfed stun),</strong> </font>fight melee til you realize mob outdps's you and you can't tank worth poop.</div><div> </div><div>In a group situation:</div><div> </div><div>less dps than mages/other scouts/brawlers...no utilities at all...only debuffs/stuns (both very weak and not even worth it) are close range.  No ranged HOs..sigh we are useless SOE please realize this.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I will continue to play a ranger, in a way I'm happy all the idiot glory hunters left the class, but now we just suck.  It's the eq1 ranger all over again, PLEASE SOE listen to us this time.  Don't be like eq1 days, listen to your customers, it makes them happy, it makes the game more fun, stop abusing rangers<img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  we have feelings too!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>cheap shot still works the same way. on any mob that does not have an up arrow it will last for 6 seconds. i used it last night. for any up arrow mobs it lasts for 2 seconds unless you hit the mob.</p><p>bongo</p>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><p>Jay42;</p><p>I respect you for what you have done, and are continuing to try to do, for the Ranger class.  You say your patience is worn thin by those complaining and wanting to quit.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">No; my patience is worn thin by the same old rants. Granted, it's only been 3 days, but like I said - patience is not a virtue I was blessed with. But "We should get our DPS back" isn't getting our class anywhere. "We can't solo effectively and here's why" just might.</font></p><p>I guess you are entitled to your opinion.  However, you seem to paint with a very large brush. </p><p><font color="#ffff33">If my response doesn't apply to you, then don't consider yourself painted. <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> </font></p><p>Our complaints are legitimate.  I am not complaining about no longer soloing ^^^ Mobs!  I never was able to do that. </p><p><font color="#ffff33">Then that particular point had nothing to do with your response. Just b/c you posted in a thread that I posted doesn't mean ALL my comments were directed at your post. </font></p><p>I am complaining about the scarcity of solo MOBs vis-a-vie group MOBs, and the fact that now it is even MORE difficult to solo. (if not practically impossible)</p><p><font color="#ffff33">Cool, rock on. Go ahead and do what you feel you need to in order to make your point. A lot of people have noted that soloing can be extremely difficult right now. Others have said they're doing okay soloing. I'd encourage those who are having trouble to explain why and ask for feedback. I'd encourage those who are doing okay to share their discoveries and the ways they're adapting. </font></p><p>The fact is: I can no longer play this game the way I prefer to play it.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">That's understandable; you're not alone. But SOE doesn't develop games for you specifically, so they need to balance your needs with thousands of others. That doesn't invalidate yours, of course, but it doesn't mean that this game should be tailored specifically for your enjoyment, either.</font></p><p>And for what reason?  Becuase some fully buffed, uber-geared Ranger on a raid out DPS a Magician?  Or is it because Rangers were over-powered for PvP?</p><p><font color="#ffff33">I really don't know, I guess I'm not really wired in such a way as to care. It's the reality we're faced with now, and I'm less concerned with understand why it happened in the first place than I am with adapting the best I can and hopefully mitigating some of the reduction in our DPS. I'm not saying you shouldn't care; just that I'm looking in the other direction. Thats just me. </font></p><p>I feel like all the investment in time, effort and money for the last year and a half has been wasted, through nothing which I have done wrong. Bitter?  You bet I am.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">Sure, that's fine, we're all feeling some sort of negative effects. But if you're that angry / bitter / upset over this and there's no end in sight, I'd recommend you take a break for at least a few weeks. I may do the same if I continue to get frustrated. If taking a break doesn't help and you really don't feel like you can play the game in a way that enables you to have fun, consider unsubscribing, or suspending your account for a few months. There's simply no point in paying a monthly fee to get angry and irritated. Whatever you choose, I wish you luck. </font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>kartikeya wrote:<div></div><p>We could indeed solo ^^^ mobs. I did it. I did it without stun poison as well. I also died many, many, many times doing it. Why did I do it? I wanted to see if I could. It was by no means easy. I needed a melee mob, and I need a really wide open space to run, and I needed to time my stuff just right. I did try it with stun poisons, but it was just so cheesy (and expensive). Many classes can do this, and do it better.</p><p>All of that is moot though. I don't care about soloing ^^^ heroic mobs. It was fun while it lasted and I knew it wouldn't last long. I do, however, expect to be able to solo mobs that are designed for solo players. That's a reasonable request, isn't it?</p><p>Okay, here's what I can do /now/. If the mob is blue, even, or yellow, I can kill it /if/...IF...I proc. If I don't proc, I'm doomed. My damage is completely and utterly random. I may as well be throwing dice at the screen. These are on down arrow mobs, or no arrow mobs.</p><p>Solo ^ mobs? Haha, forget it. You have to kite them, and room to kite is an extreme rarity now. Even kiting, they still nearly killed me. And sometimes they did. And it was all depending on that damned RNG, not my own skills. If I proc, I'll probably win. If I don't, I'm toast. Not my idea of fun.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>can you post logs of your fights and include your level, your weapons and the levels and arrow modifiers of the mobs? I'm trying to find out if certain levels of rangers cannot solo or have great difficulty soloing. Logs are hard evidence of this. thanks</p><p>bongo</p>

[Pucswift]

<span><blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p> <hr></blockquote>That is out of whack... a here is an example..i watched a 46 ranger destroy the spiders over in SS so i thought hmmm let me tryme at the time being a 48 fury it was like this....you hit spider for 138 damageyour deadyeah that didn't work well</span><div></div>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Infinity0 wrote:<p>I have a Wizard main and from my observation, from the outside looking in Rangers no longer do the job of Tier 1 DPS I was not one of the mages crying nerf rangers, due to the fact I believe a class that must pay so much money to do damage and have minimal utility should excel above the rest in their primary proficiency.  I had the opportunity to group with a few Rangers yesterday that I always group with, for some reason they all logged after about 30 minutes of play. Last night fights where taking forever with the same people, so I decided to start parsing.  Dirge, Wizard, Conjurer and Berserker easily did 25-50% more damage than our Rangers.</p><p>I honestly believe SOE dropped the ball big time with this Ranger nerf do they have a clue about customer relations, product expectations, brand marketing?<span>  </span>Since I was there for the SWG debacle when I think about SOE I see a company that pulls the rug from under their customers feet, after they invested copious amounts of time and money into their products.<span>  </span>To the Wizards/Mages that helped bring upon this unneeded super nerf of rangers, how long do you honestly think it will be until we feel the wrath of the SOE dev sledgehammer?</p><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>Can you post these parses? please include ranger level and level of mobs that you were fighting.</p><p>bongo</p>

[kartikeya]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>bongotez wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>kartikeya wrote:<div></div><p>We could indeed solo ^^^ mobs. I did it. I did it without stun poison as well. I also died many, many, many times doing it. Why did I do it? I wanted to see if I could. It was by no means easy. I needed a melee mob, and I need a really wide open space to run, and I needed to time my stuff just right. I did try it with stun poisons, but it was just so cheesy (and expensive). Many classes can do this, and do it better.</p><p>All of that is moot though. I don't care about soloing ^^^ heroic mobs. It was fun while it lasted and I knew it wouldn't last long. I do, however, expect to be able to solo mobs that are designed for solo players. That's a reasonable request, isn't it?</p><p>Okay, here's what I can do /now/. If the mob is blue, even, or yellow, I can kill it /if/...IF...I proc. If I don't proc, I'm doomed. My damage is completely and utterly random. I may as well be throwing dice at the screen. These are on down arrow mobs, or no arrow mobs.</p><p>Solo ^ mobs? Haha, forget it. You have to kite them, and room to kite is an extreme rarity now. Even kiting, they still nearly killed me. And sometimes they did. And it was all depending on that damned RNG, not my own skills. If I proc, I'll probably win. If I don't, I'm toast. Not my idea of fun.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote><p>can you post logs of your fights and include your level, your weapons and the levels and arrow modifiers of the mobs? I'm trying to find out if certain levels of rangers cannot solo or have great difficulty soloing. Logs are hard evidence of this. thanks</p><p>bongo</p><hr></blockquote><p>Level 60, imbued cobalt weapons, imbued ironwood bow, nearly full cobalt armor. My arrows are summoned (fulginate, I believe). Most of these mobs were blue con no arrow mobs, even con no arrow mobs, or yellow single down arrow mobs. Gimme a day and let me see if I can dredge up some hard data for you (this requires me to use a parser, blech!)</p>

[GoNom]

<div>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><p>Jay42;</p><p>I respect you for what you have done, and are continuing to try to do, for the Ranger class.  You say your patience is worn thin by those complaining and wanting to quit.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">No; my patience is worn thin by the same old rants. Granted, it's only been 3 days, but like I said - patience is not a virtue I was blessed with. But "We should get our DPS back" isn't getting our class anywhere. "We can't solo effectively and here's why" just might.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Jay, you an di go back to launch, and I have always backed you.  But it took them 13 live updates to make the Ranger class enjoyable, almost a year!!!  How patient should we be?  We got 6 months of enjoyabilty out of this class.   I for one have cancelled.  You can make all the posts here you want, but losing money is the only thing that will invoke a fast change.  </font></p><p>I guess you are entitled to your opinion.  However, you seem to paint with a very large brush. </p><p><font color="#ffff33">If my response doesn't apply to you, then don't consider yourself painted. <img width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16"></font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">It does apply because the class as a whole is broken, </font></p><p>Our complaints are legitimate.  I am not complaining about no longer soloing ^^^ Mobs!  I never was able to do that. </p><p><font color="#ffff33">Then that particular point had nothing to do with your response. Just b/c you posted in a thread that I posted doesn't mean ALL my comments were directed at your post. </font></p><p>I am complaining about the scarcity of solo MOBs vis-a-vie group MOBs, and the fact that now it is even MORE difficult to solo. (if not practically impossible)</p><p><font color="#ffff33">Cool, rock on. Go ahead and do what you feel you need to in order to make your point. A lot of people have noted that soloing can be extremely difficult right now. Others have said they're doing okay soloing. I'd encourage those who are having trouble to explain why and ask for feedback. I'd encourage those who are doing okay to share their discoveries and the ways they're adapting. </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">I, for one, am no longer paying to particpate in a live beta testing with Sony.  They break the game, and depend on data from live paying customers to fix it, when they have a Beta server and a test server for that very purpose</font></p><p>The fact is: I can no longer play this game the way I prefer to play it.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">That's understandable; you're not alone. But SOE doesn't develop games for you specifically, so they need to balance your needs with thousands of others. That doesn't invalidate yours, of course, but it doesn't mean that this game should be tailored specifically for your enjoyment, either.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Your right, SOE "develops" games for people who love mages.  Everyone else is just here to offer conversation to them.   Show me one example Jay where the current game mechanics are geared towards anyone playing a Ranger.  Just one example to validate the above statement.</font></p><p>And for what reason?  Becuase some fully buffed, uber-geared Ranger on a raid out DPS a Magician?  Or is it because Rangers were over-powered for PvP?</p><p><font color="#ffff33">I really don't know, I guess I'm not really wired in such a way as to care. It's the reality we're faced with now, and I'm less concerned with understand why it happened in the first place than I am with adapting the best I can and hopefully mitigating some of the reduction in our DPS. I'm not saying you shouldn't care; just that I'm looking in the other direction. Thats just me. </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">Tell me how you plan to mitigate this, unsolo'ble, nothing to offer groups,. Raids will now defintely take extra plate tanks over Rangers.  This is our worst fear, we are right back we were pre-LU13.  Exactly, Zerkers and Guards are now doing similar damage and offering 100X more to a group/Raid in utility</font></p><p>I feel like all the investment in time, effort and money for the last year and a half has been wasted, through nothing which I have done wrong. Bitter?  You bet I am.</p><p><font color="#ffff33">Sure, that's fine, we're all feeling some sort of negative effects. But if you're that angry / bitter / upset over this and there's no end in sight, I'd recommend you take a break for at least a few weeks. I may do the same if I continue to get frustrated. If taking a break doesn't help and you really don't feel like you can play the game in a way that enables you to have fun, consider unsubscribing, or suspending your account for a few months. There's simply no point in paying a monthly fee to get angry and irritated. Whatever you choose, I wish you luck. </font></p><p><font color="#ffff33"></font> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">I for 1?   Am taking an extended break from Sony, they will now longer be cashing in checks from me, I am boycotting KoS and hope that every Ranger does the same.   Not 1 more Penny Rangers, you want to see change fast?  Have every Ranger in game concel thier subscription on the same day.   it'll get fixed tomorrow.  They are feeding on your patience Jay, knowing that players will j"just adapt" that way they can take thier sweet time fixing this  and cash more of our money in.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">I for 1 refuse.  I have already canceled my sub.  And will be chingk ing the boards for updates on this, if its not fixed within a weel I am deleting my Ranger to prevent myself from ever getting sucked back in by later temporary fixes.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"></font> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">Sony you have been told I am giving this a week.  If its fixed by then I'll be back.  If its not I and everyone I can convince to come with me will be gone for good.  There are 7 Rnagers in my Guild as it is ready to jump ship[ with me to Vanguard.   In the grand scheme of things I know Sony doesn't give a Rats [Removed for Content] about the $100 per month total they will lose from us.   But if 100 people ready this and join the boycott on KoS and cencel thier subscriptions, something wilol be done much faster then sitting around saying  "Well if you just try to mitigate it, and maybe take up a tradeskill, and beg your guild leader for a spot on 1 raid a week, Sony should have this fixed by Midsummer)  Bite me, I've got 16 months invested in this toon and will drop him like a hat next week if this isn't fixed</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"></font> </p><p><font color="#ff0000"></font> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">End of story</font></p></div>

[Jay]

<blockquote><hr>GoNomar wrote:<div><p><font color="#ff0000">End of story</font></p></div><hr></blockquote><p>Hey, sorry to see you go, Nomar. But it's best that you do what you feel you need to.</p><p>I'm not going to bother responding to your "questions" directed at me, as I'm not into the hostility and anger you're throwing in my direction. You made your choice, I'll make mine. I don't really need to justify my decisions to anyone but myself.</p><p>Take care, best of luck, and I hope to see you back someday. Until then, keep your head up!</p>

[strider19]

Geez people, I didn't expect to get so many flames for this post.  People need to stop using rangers PAST as evidence of being overpowered.  The point is we are now UNDERPOWERED.  We can't solo effectively, we have no use in groups, we are a DPS CLASS with LITTLE DPS.  THIS was my point, so stop flaming with your "rangers deserved it" posts.  I know a lot of the posts weren't like this but a lo were and it just pisses me off.<div></div>

[Avendelf]

<div></div><p>OK so honestly, I'm a pretty good ranger.  Few fabled items, few legendary etc.  But yes pre LU20 i could solo ^^^. I did also die a lot from it, and they were very tough fights, and I would say not every ranger could do that even.  But here is the List of current cons i can solo:</p><p> </p><p>Yellow, down arrows or no arrow - 75% of the time I win</p><p>White, no arrow or down arrow - 80% of the time I win</p><p>Blue, no arrow or down arrow - 85% of the time I win</p><p>Green, one and only one up arrow, solo mob, - 95% of the time I win</p><p>Now, if you had even a single up arrow to any of those, multiple mobs to any of those, there is at least a 75% chance if not higher the mob is going to win.  Being tier 1 DPS supposedly, paying for my damage, and being a class i've played for 60 levels solo and now <em>depend </em>on getting a group if i want more than 3-5% exp an hour is not something I enjoy at all. EQ has become depressing for me because I spent so long developing this char and now he is a joke.   </p><p>I tested my damage against my friends 60 elementalist, identical mobs, and he was bringing them down faster every single time in defensive stance.  Half the time in groups i'll switch over to melee skills because they seem to be as much damage as my bow that I cant hit the broad side of a barn with.  I have played EQ since pre-kunark, played a mage in EQ1 so was used to nerfs, played a ranger in EQ2, was used to nerfs...but this has just gone too far and if it's not fixed not only will I cancel, not only will I never buy another SOE product ever again, but I will also demand my money back for all the time I have invested into a character that I can no longer use for the reasons I created it, to solo.  I'm not asking to solo yellow ^^^ again, but hey a blue ^ without a 75% chance of death would be nice.  And this doesn't just effect rangers, my duo buddy and I can't do much together duo anymore either like we used to because my DPS is so low and nothing is proc'ing.  Don't give all the DPS back, but hey a little bit of fairness is in order here I would say. </p>

[ChaoticSil]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p>Because they got used to it.</p><p>Seriously - color codes are there for a reason - when a class, ANY class routinely exceeds those codes, there is an issue.</p><p>Yeah - I know the arguement "This class can do it, that class can do it" blah blah  - they're broken too then.</p><p>If yer [Removed for Content] because you can't solo a mob 2 levels above you that cons "suitable for a group of three or more adventurers" you are a whack job and need to step back and look at the situation.</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote></span><span>I was an average ranger.  I had crafted rare armor & weapons and 2 adept 3's.  The rest of my CA's were adept 1 or app 4.  The hours I can play vary from day to day and aren't usually normal "peak" hours so I rarely had the oppurtunity to raid or often even group.  While I'm sure there were some rangers that could solo yellow heroics, I doubt the majority of us average rangers could.  Personally, I could only solo blue heroics if I bought stun, debuff & damage poisons, was in an area with enough room to back up several times to use my bow, was also in an area with no wanderers, the mob wasn't named and I got lucky with stun procs.  That's alot of if's.  It was also alot of deaths while trying.  But it was fun.I've watched many sorcerers, summoners and enchanters (yes enchanters) solo yellow heroics.  I've seen a lvl 55 wizard take out an entire guard tower in Majdul solo.  Yet I, the average ranger, the one paying for poison and arrows and having to have just the right circumstances and luck to solo any heroics, was the one that was overpowered.I'm not calling for a nerf on anybody, I really don't care if other classes can solo yellow heroics.  What I do care about is that my ranger is no longer enjoyable.  </span><span>I used to really enjoy doing the series of quests in DoF - the ones that were mostly solo with 1 or 2 parts that required killing a heroic mob.  </span><span>With my limited hours, grouping isn't always an option, provided I could actually find one that wanted to do a quest instead of just grind xp.  I can't finish most of the quests now.  My game has reduced to either spending all of my time looking for a group or grinding low blue & green mobs to gain a few levels so that I can do quests that are 10 to 15 levels below me.  If SOE wants to nerf me, fine.  But at least give us soloers something to do besides looking for scraps.</span></div>

[Thay]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Amara Peacegiver wrote:<b>How can you possibly say we were too much dps?  </b>It's all we had and without it, we are a broken class.  We offer no utility to a group that is either worth mentioning or that another class can do better.I disagree with that.  Rangers were not too much DPS.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Because we <b>were </b>2x every other Tier 1 DPS class. <b>Period</b>. Nerfage was needed, but not to the extent that actually happened.</span></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Jay i love ur posts, i agree with everything u say about solo ability. I know that we arent gonna go back to pre lu20. Imma keep playin my ranger, because im a ranger for life. heh.</p><p>But PLEEEASE stop sayin that preds have as much utility as we do... we have confusion arrow, pathfinding, and a few slows.... thats not utility.... the aggro transfer on assassins ALONE is more utility than we have...</p><p>Now now that that is said, who cares about utility. Thats not what rangers are about, never has been. I dont know too many people that want it; but i cant argue well with the people that do...</p><p>Now, for all u t5 and t6 rangers ive been hearin say procs dont matter, or u havent noticed differences post patch... if u havent, its cause u arent payin attention to procs (maybe usin poo poisons heck i duuno) Does anyone remember that all the damage we did was because of procs? Granted, they were vastly overpowered, but to practially eliminate them, while at the same time nerfing the spells that cast them? Cmon now...</p><p>ps. "rangers were top dog in DoF so now they can eat some dirt" isnt good reasoning in my opinion...</p><p>howeva, once again, imma play my ranger no mata what SoE does.... and i play him a lot. It just may lower my playtime some. (notta threat, just solid fact)</p>

[strider19]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><p>Jay i love ur posts, i agree with everything u say about solo ability. I know that we arent gonna go back to pre lu20. Imma keep playin my ranger, because im a ranger for life. heh.</p><p>But PLEEEASE stop sayin that preds have as much utility as we do... we have confusion arrow, pathfinding, and a few slows.... thats not utility.... the aggro transfer on assassins ALONE is more utility than we have...</p><p>Now now that that is said, who cares about utility. Thats not what rangers are about, never has been. I dont know too many people that want it; but i cant argue well with the people that do...</p><p>Now, for all u t5 and t6 rangers ive been hearin say procs dont matter, or u havent noticed differences post patch... if u havent, its cause u arent payin attention to procs (maybe usin poo poisons heck i duuno) Does anyone remember that all the damage we did was because of procs? Granted, they were vastly overpowered, but to practially eliminate them, while at the same time nerfing the spells that cast them? Cmon now...</p><p>ps. "rangers were top dog in DoF so now they can eat some dirt" isnt good reasoning in my opinion...</p><p>howeva, once again, imma play my ranger no mata what SoE does.... and i play him a lot. It just may lower my playtime some. (notta threat, just solid fact)</p><hr width="100%" size="2">completely agree with all that.  I will be playing my ranger still even though it's not half as fun.  Please SOE, make our bows useful again.  We are a dps class, I mean, I don't know what to say.  Everything that should be said has already been said, now the only thing is to get this to become a red folder so the devs actually open it.  Cmon rangers, let's get our class back to where it should be (no i don't mean pre LU20, i mean a solid soloing class).  It's unfair when we solo yellow mobs but when a mage solos triple heroics and does it 10x faster it's all fine and dandy?  Sometimes this whole issue make me wnat to slap somebody<div></div>

[BedlamX]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>davian999 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Amara Peacegiver wrote:How can you possibly say we were too much dps?  It's all we had and without it, we are a broken class.  We offer no utility to a group that is either worth mentioning or that another class can do better.I disagree with that.  Rangers were not too much DPS.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I have a lvl 60 asn.  A tier 1 DPS class with just as little utility as a ranger.  There is no way in hell I could do even a quater of the stuff rangers could do pre LU 20. </p><p>It still supprises me that there are some (NOT ALL) but some people out there that will still defend the lvl of dammage a ranger could do pre LU20.  Rangers were WAY overpowered.</p><p>You need a nerf and a rather big one at that.  Did you get nerfed to hard?  Probably (and I think that SOE should give rangers some DPS back).  But you should be no where near as powerful as you were preLU 20.</p><p>My lvl 60 asn can kill yellow ^ mobs with over 50% health left, and I concider that good.  You realy need to lower your expectation of what your ranger should be ablt to do.  Yes they need some fixing but the were NOT doing a proper amount or DPS pre LU20.  I know this first hand because I have a ranger alt.</p><hr></blockquote>Can I ask yo this: Your an assassin why do you care so much that a ranger can solo this, solo that, DPS this and that. The ranger having this ability must have a serious impact on your game play. Although I cant see how.  In situations where you were grouped with a ranger or 2 were you inhibited? When you were part of an instance group (poets for example) didnt you like being able to kill the mobs without dying yourself, didnt you like having master chests drop? It's ok you can admit that you were jealous of our high DPS and thats what really motovated your post wasnt it? You mean to say that PRELU20  the ranger wasnt doing the same or lower DPS than assassins didnt you. In your world what is proper DPS  And  why shouldnt the ranger be as powerfull as before? Is it because you dont play one? Its not you I dislike its your post. I dont go to the assassin boards are make these typs of comments. If you feel the assassins are getting the shaft you should speak up in your forum and inform the devs that your class should be boosted. I feel the same as Amara. I dont think that we should be anything less than T1 DPS . Opinions are like ars holes everyone got them. I just think yours smells a little worse than mine.BedlamX</span></div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Katzilla wrote:<blockquote><hr>GPA_Coyote wrote:<div></div><p>Why can't people see that if you COULD solo a ^^^yellow con, SOMETHING was out of whack?</p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>Am I the only one that has a real problem with these kinds of statements?  No offense GPA_Coyote .. but have you ever personally SEEN a 60 ranger solo a ^^^ yellow con? </p><p></p><hr></blockquote></blockquote><p>I've tried several times.  Never successful.  Tried ^^yellows many times.  Again, I lost everytime.  I was about 50/50 on ^yellow.  But then that's the whole problem.  People like Coyote make assinine assumptions based on what a few class braggarts say.  I've been playing a Ranger since the day this game was released and have about six years experience playing a Ranger on EQ.  I'm decked out in legendary gear, and have one master 1 CA.  I'm at or mabe a little above average.  Now a days, anything more than down arrow mobs are a risk.  I can take a group of three even con mobs with 2-3 down arrows with little problem while a blue single mob with no arrows gives me fits.</p><p>"You have been killed by a palace sweeper" was my first LU20 experience.  BTW, it was a ^blue mob.:smileyindifferent:</p><p>Edit:  I messed up the quote thingy.  If I attributed a quote to the wrong person, I apologize.</p><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:06 PM</span></p>

[strider19]

I would like to ask that other classes please don't bring your hate here.  This is a ranger discussion not "another class wanting to spit on us while we are on the ground" discussion.  What did rangers ever do to you people? Why do you hate us so much?  Why do we always get shafted? sigh...just keep the hate away please.<div></div>

[Gummjai32]

<div></div><p>I just want to say, teh nerf on rangers DPS was HUGE. And I will explain why I say this. Anyone else who thinks otherwise is only kidding themselves because the people who have been playing a ranger know it to be true. Was it needed, maybe a lil bit, was it warranted, hell no.</p><p>I have been playing a ranger on EQ2 for about 4 months now and to be honest I loved being one of the top DPS classes in the game, we have no other real attributes to bring to a group or raid other than the DPS we had. our procs are all but eliminated from arrow shots from CAs. This makes us less useful and ALOT less DPS overall. I proc 80% less now than I did before LU20 and as such can't even solo a level 48 Single up mob that I used to be able to handle without too much trouble. I am a level 55 ranger with full Tier6 crafted Rare armor and weaponry. Ironwood Bow all weapons and bow are Imbued. And I tell ya, this level of nerfage was the biggest I have ever seen to any one class. And I have been playing EQ since 99 so I have seen ALOT of nerfs.</p><p>This is even bigger than the Mezz/charm nerf for EQ1 during duels when PVP servers went live.</p><p>hopefully SOE will get there stuff together and realize they have affended alot of paying customers and will do some retuning to the nerf. hell even other classes like Inquisitors are more DPS than we are now. Ok maybe that was a little stretch but you see my point.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Stop saying assassins have as little utility as rangers. Research your spells against ours. We have pathfinding. End of story.... THE AGGRO TRANSFER THAT ASSASSINS HAVE is utility. Its a lot of utility, in one spell. You have others. Interesting that i get to say this right after telling u that ur wrong about ur own class, BUT STOP telling us what we can and cant do... All it shows is that u have very little grasp on what a ranger does, and even that u have little grasp of your own class... if you cant identify your own utility, you need to reroll a class where little #'s pop up evertime u do something.... possibly a healer. That way u will have no trouble identifying what your class does...</p><p>Flame on.</p><p>Whiny raner #1</p><p>Stylee Mc'Cutta (Nek)</p><p> </p>

[Faeril Shamand]

And some actually did quit. Not that me and my wife were wanting too but the only way to get a point across to a company is by hitting the wallet. If everyone that complained or threatened to quit about these changes actually did quit, SOE might be more forthcoming with information and fixes to the class.For us, we cancelled our KoS order and accounts, we did not quit. Heck my wife and I play alts that we enjoy and the game itself is better than others (we are playing one now that has no monthly fee but it just is not the same). Once some balance to the ranger class is achieved we look forward to coming back to play a ranger and roam around KoS (and thus spend our dollars).If all the unhappy rangers simply play alts, SOE still sees the revenue. Sure they will see a drop in ranger classes playing but that does not affect the bottom line.Anyhow, just our 2 cents.Faeril and Azelia (Kithicor)Wrath of Zek<div></div>

[strider19]

Aye SOE won't care if we all roll other classes, my prayer is that our class gets underplayed (idiot glory hunters leave) and then eventually they bring us back up to what we should be (a solid soloing/group effective class) By this time most people will have invested enough time in other classes to not want to roll a ranger again.  I know this is wishful thinking.Anyhoo, I plan to roll my ranger through the best of times and the worst of times...I smell eq1 days all over again.  sigh we are nothing now.  Little dps, no utility, who wants us in groups or raids? We can't even solo effectively, SOE needs to understand this..and other classes need to stop [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing in these forums, to allt he other class whiners i say [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] AND GO BACK TO YOUR OWN FORUMS, STOP TRYING TO BRING THE RANGER CLASS DOWN WHEN IT'S ALREADY BROKEN.thank you<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[strider19]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><blockquote>illumin wrote:I'd say this is a good time to cancel and regain your life again, run while you can and are still married <img width="16" border="0" src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-very-happy.gif" height="16"><hr></blockquote>Sadley this is what I am doing. I realy have things that interest me more than this game now. I realy like EQ2 because its not the easiest MMO out there... but then again I do wish it was more challenging... granted this has made it more challenging... but in the wrong way. I shouldn't have to be challenged with a broken class again... back in may of 04 when i saw the character lines i decided i would stick with my EQ1 Ranger and make a new one in EQ2.... But i can't stand this constant change. up and down rollercoaster ride that we always seem to get put on anymore.I will be watching the forums though to see if things have improved. I realy want to come back. but right now i don't have the interest in sticking it out.I love my ranger, its my only character i realy play. (I do have a lvl 10 dirge right now.)Keep up the good work Cat and Jay. I'll be waiting for your guy's words of hope.<hr width="100%" size="2">Sad story, yet it's true...don't make us quit SOE..<div></div>

[Kompton]

humm..ok i think we did to much damage before, i was used to yellows dropping before they even reached me. a good feeling.now even greens end with melee combat 95% of the time.my conjurer can solo yellows.still.the colour code does not apply to conjurers and warlocks, so why the hell should it apply to rangers. ?<div></div>

[biwam]

<div></div><div></div>D<p>I'm surprised all of these points are getting kicked to death in thread after thread; I assumed we'd be moving onward by now, not debating irrelevant issues that are history anyway.</p><p>Here are some realities:</p><p>1. We WERE overpowered. Now we're not. Get used to it and strive to be the best you can, roll an alt, or quit.</p><p>2. Some of us WILL stay here and fight for the class. We're going to be reasonable about it. We're not going to demand a complete rollback. We're going accept the realignment of our class, but we're going to push for some additional changes that will moderate the impact on our DPS. We won't get it all back, but we need more that we're currently getting.</p><p>2. NO class should solo yellow ^^^ mobs. They're Heroic. Meant for groups. Yes, some classes can still do it, and best wishes to them for enjoying it while they can. When the Nerf Fairy visits the summoners' and sorcerors' houses, I hope they wake up a little less mauled than we did.</p><p>3. We are not useless. If YOU are useless, the problem is the player, not the class. Besides, I disarm traps like there's no tomorrow. You realize that those those exploding boxes are a HUGE threat, don't you?? <img width="16" border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16"></p><p>4. According to the con system, yellow ^ mobs are just about the toughest enemies that any single player should be able to beat. Many classes can't; some can. If swashies can't, go get that worked on. If rangers can't, we'll work on that here.</p><p>5. Rangers are not the only zero-utility class in the game. There isn't ANY class with zero utility. Assassins don't get any more utility than we do; sorcs could arguably get a bit more, but that's too subjective to establish, and the point isn't who gets more utility, the point is that all four classes are *supposed* to provide the highest DPS in the game. That's the purpose of those professions; the utility is extra flavor. Nobody recruits an assassin into a raid for pathfinding. Nobody invites a wizard into a raid to buff STR.</p><p>Does that about cover it? Sorry for the lack of sympathy and commiseration, but I'm not a therapist and I lose patience pretty quickly. Again, feel free to vent and blow off steam, but at some point you need to decide whether you're going to stay on the path you've been travelling, or jump ship. Dredging up the same tired arguments isn't getting you any closer to making that choice.</p>Dude number 3 is crackin me up, i am reading this at 5am but still i am crying.  Currently a ranger on permafrost and loving it, i do notice the damage reduction but i must say when grouped with anyone and i put myself on AF they notice i am gone and are happy to see me return i can put out the damage and while would like to see a bit of our damage come back i still have no problems finding groups......maybe it's just my uberness....LOL not really, first time i have ever played EQ but so far happy with it, only thing i would like to bring up is if they nerf us too bad there will be no reason to invite a ranger to a group as they will offer nothing<p>Message Edited by biwamow on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:06 AM</span></p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>biwamow wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>3. We are not useless. If YOU are useless, the problem is the player, not the class.</p><hr></blockquote>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>People are obviously exaggerating when they say that we are useless, and im having trouble beleiving that the people flaming them dont know. Yah fine, your great. You understand what they meant, u just wanted to say how badass u were...</p><p>Unfortunately the point that these peeps are trying to get accross, is that u have to make a HUUGE stink if you want something done. I mean, granted we were overpowered before, but does anyone deny that this nerf is soley due to other classes complaining about us? And if its that kind of whining that gets us nerfed, who in their right mind would expect it to take something different to set it right?</p><p>SOE should be listening to people like Jay. Unfortunately, Jay is too calm and level headed to create the stink that i think would be necessary... So others are attempting to get things done. Of course i will continue to play the ranger thru thick and thin, but i also understand that that will simply show soe that we are ok with any changes they implement..(ones they tell us about, or even all those they dont) It is simply the fact that i like the game, and in any game i play i am a ranger that i stay. No, i am not such a fanboi that if a better game were to come out, and they handled the class better, i wouldnt immediatly switch. That just doesnt exist yet.</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>My complaint is that the changes were made based on what a fully buffed level 60+ Ranger, with full 'Fabled'  gear, and all Master level CA's, with the best weapons, bows, and arrows, could do under optimal conditions in raid or group settings.</p><p>I am not THAT Ranger.</p><p>My Ranger is level 42.  He wears 'Treasured' gear, has Adept-1 CA's, uses makeshift foraged arrows, cannot afford 'Legendary' poisons, cannot afford to buy three poisons, (so no 'Stun' poisons), and solos.</p><p>I have a total personal fortune of 9gp.</p><p>Can I still fight? </p><p>Yes, but now  I must melee ^ arrow 'Green Cons' which are 6-7 levels below me, and still loose 40% of my health doing it.</p><p>With no CA's I can use on the move, when I get ambushed by a 'Blue' or 'White' Roekilik Assassin, I am down to 40%.  If it is 'Orange' I will die unless I run.</p><p>I can fight  'Blue Con' and 'Even Con' (no arrows) mobs,  but take 60% damage.  It can be done, I still advance, I don't die too often, but;</p><p>My rate of advancement is sooooo slow now.  I must find just the 'right' area to hunt in, and I dare not take on anything too tough (read that to mean anything over a 'Green Con') in an enclosed or crowded environment.</p><p>By 'fixing' the high-end Ranger,  you derailed me.</p><p>Then there is the whole PvP issue.  (yeah, I'm sure the timing of the two events, [PvP launch, and LU-20], were purely coincidental!)</p><p>I'll keep playing, I'll keep advancing (albeit slowly), but the NEXT time you get a wild hair up your collective arses, at least do some testing on how your so-called 'fix' will impact the ENTIRE range of a class!</p><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by Mary the Prophetess on <span class="date_text">02-26-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:03 PM</span></p>

[strider19]

<hr width="100%" size="2"><p>1. We WERE overpowered. Now we're not. Get used to it and strive to be the best you can, roll an alt, or quit.</p><p>2. Some of us WILL stay here and fight for the class. We're going to be reasonable about it. We're not going to demand a complete rollback. We're going accept the realignment of our class, but we're going to push for some additional changes that will moderate the impact on our DPS. We won't get it all back, but we need more that we're currently getting.</p><p>2. NO class should solo yellow ^^^ mobs. They're Heroic. Meant for groups. Yes, some classes can still do it, and best wishes to them for enjoying it while they can. When the Nerf Fairy visits the summoners' and sorcerors' houses, I hope they wake up a little less mauled than we did.</p><p>3. We are not useless. If YOU are useless, the problem is the player, not the class. Besides, I disarm traps like there's no tomorrow. You realize that those those exploding boxes are a HUGE threat, don't you?? <img width="16" border="0" src="../../i/smilies/16x16_smiley-wink.gif" height="16"></p><p>4. According to the con system, yellow ^ mobs are just about the toughest enemies that any single player should be able to beat. Many classes can't; some can. If swashies can't, go get that worked on. If rangers can't, we'll work on that here.</p><p>5. Rangers are not the only zero-utility class in the game. There isn't ANY class with zero utility. Assassins don't get any more utility than we do; sorcs could arguably get a bit more, but that's too subjective to establish, and the point isn't who gets more utility, the point is that all four classes are *supposed* to provide the highest DPS in the game. That's the purpose of those professions; the utility is extra flavor. Nobody recruits an assassin into a raid for pathfinding. Nobody invites a wizard into a raid to buff STR.</p><hr width="100%" size="2">You have 2 number 2's...but I'll just call one the first and one the second.1. True2 (first one). True as well, I will stay because I love my class..but many are leaving due to extreme frustration and being pushed over the edge.  Not enough to hurt SOEs pockets enough to start caring about us though.2 (second one). True, and rangers (at least my decently geared ranger) never could.  Most mages on the other hand can solo them with ease.  Quick story: my lvl 30 pally (fabled/legendary geared and master 2 taunts) could not hold aggro over a lvl 30 conjurer's pet, nor could it tank as well in our group at RoV.3. We are not completely useless no, but nobody wants us around anymore..that means we only have soloing left, and you can say all you want we are decent soloers but it's not true.  We rely on our bows to solo but with all the nerfs we get one weak shot in and that's that..from there we melee and die unless the mob is blue or lower.4. yes according to the con system they should be, but why are they too tough for rangers when most other classes can solo ^^^?  I say this not to whine, but does no one think it's wrong that a tier 1 dps class does less damage than a berserker (a freakin TANK)? 5. Don't even say assasins have as little utility as us, because that is a filthy lie and I should slap you for it.  Sorry for the anger but it's just annoying when people say that.  Assasins outdps us by an insane amount, their dps can be full always since it's close melee (backstabbing is easier than bow shooting by FAR) and we have NO utility..assasins have aggro transfer which is huge..dont' even act like our chest disarming is worth a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] because it's not and every scout class has that.I do not reply to get other classes nerfed..I reply to make our class a fun class again.  We have so little right now, no dps no utility no reason fora nyone to group with us and no way for us to solo...it needs to be changed and if you think otherwise read the 9000 posts from disgruntled rangers.<p></p><div></div>

[Gailstryd]

<div></div><div>Assassins get a poison debuff and a physical mit debuff as well as debuffing defense like we do.  They get an additional ranged stun.  They get hate transfer though that is argueably less useful than our hate debuff since theirs is useless in a lot of raid situations.  I am pretty sure I'm forgetting some, but as it stands they can do as much as us utility wise and more and on top of that their utility is more viable for their class, physical mit and poison debuff ups their dmg.  We get a fire debuff that is only applicable for 2 of our abilities and barely so.  Assassins are fine though, they are where they need to be as far as I've seen and they are like a stinky cousin, you don't really like it but you have ot have their back.</div>

[Xatrart]

<div><p>this nerf was by far the biggest that has occured in the game so far... dps is cut in less than half. Considering that we are the only 0 utility class in the game, it just seems right that we should dps well. ( dont count amazing shot or our unparalleled pulling ability as utility... thats just caust that ranga is a sick mofo) Lemme say it bluntly, because it seems like everyone is skirting the fact that a ranger's dps IS procs. Thats what we are, thats what we specialized in. Predator should be the premier dps class in the game. I mean assassin. cmon that just screams it...</p><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">You didnt play a Templar...they really stuck it to us on damage output as well as our HoT spells where reduced by 3/4.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000"></font> </p><p>by the by...any class can take an blue or green con heroic mob and solo it every 15 minutes while spells refresh...(see LT anytime ever.... there is always someone of any class farming for the conj staff solo) soe if u rilly wanna [Removed for Content] people off make it so SKILL is required for us to dps like we used too... that way u stop all the peeps rerolling everytime some class gets "overpowered"!!!</p><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0033">Templars can not solo green 2 arrow down.</font>  <font color="#ff0033">The reason you never saw it is because you could solo the whole time.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0033"></font> </p><p><font color="#ff0033">As for the nerfs...SOE will continue to lie to you and me until all of us stand up and just quit.  </font></p></div>

[stellwa]

<div></div>out the rangers soloing yellow conned ^^^ its true some rangers can do this but right after lu20 and the launch of KoS a guild wizzy of mines was braging about killing orange ^^^ and getting 1% per kill form it....something is not right about that picture....

[Teksun]

I am by NO means a GREAT Ranger, but I DO consider myself a GOOD Ranger. I have 1 (yes, I counted it twice) Master 1 CA. It's Evasion (not much help in solo). Yet I had NO TROUBLE soloing this weekend. I found a real nice selection of Yellow single arrow down MoBs that i could take down and barely be in to orange health (100% success). There were also groups of three 2-3 down arrow that I could take out with 75% success. This to me was where ALL soloers should be. I didn't try any other MoBs but to me yellow is the best for both xp and loot...I DID have problems in group. Heroic blue - yellow weren't that bad. I could still get up to 400 DPS (Every 3rd fight) and averaged 250 the rest of the time. When it came to Orange Heroics, my DPS dropped to 75. This was UNACCEPTABLE. IMHO there should be NO WAY a MoB can have a 75% PARRY, RIPOSTE from the REAR. ESPECIALLY when I am STEALTHED. I think this needs to be addressed. I wouldn't mind so much if I was conastantly hitting and they were absorbing the damage, but that was a little to much.My tactics have definately changed. I went back to looking for the 'sweet spot' (old school rules <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ) I used a LOT more power. I rarely used Stream.I still had a BLAST. The content is fun, the art is beautiful, and everything was exciting all over again...<div></div>

[Jerana]

Just my two cents...My main is a ranger and I have grouped consistently with the same people as we have all adventured and levelled together. I have noticed a marked difference in DPS and my ability to help turn the tide in a battle. I also see the damage that wizzies, illusionists and others have done and can say that from the looks of things, my DPS has suffered the most from the nerfing, now my group calls more for my to bring my healer rather than my ranger...One of the reasons I picked the class early on was so that I could group and solo depending on what was going on. I agree that it is hard watching others solo mobs that I can no longer solo and while doing the best to adjust the playing style - I have to agree with the other posts here that if we aren't earning our DPS title - then what are we? We don't bring the group buffs that the bards do - we are a solo fighting machine and buying poisons and proc's only help so much.If I can't effectively stun a target solo - I'm not going to get the damage in because the Ranger's bow is our life.I am not calling for an "uber ranger" just give me something a little more playable. It is no fun being the kid picked last for a group <span>:smileywink:</span>JeranaLvl 44 Ranger<div></div>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr>strider1987 wrote:<p>5. Don't even say assasins have as little utility as us, because that is a filthy lie and I should slap you for it.  Sorry for the anger but it's just annoying when people say that.  Assasins outdps us by an insane amount, their dps can be full always since it's close melee (backstabbing is easier than bow shooting by FAR) and we have NO utility..assasins have aggro transfer which is huge..dont' even act like our chest disarming is worth a rats [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] because it's not and every scout class has that.</p><hr></blockquote><p>You need a break from the game, dude. Take a week off, settle down, then come back and see what you're capable of.</p><p>Go ahead and disagree about assassin utility, that's fine. (Though you go on and on about DPS and don't even mention utility til the last sentence.) Either way, you missed the point by such a wide margin as to reinforce it: this is not about utility. Nobody picks assassins for a raid or group b/c they have a hate transfer, just like nobody picks us b/c we debuff heat resist. We are both DPS classes; that's our primary purpose. Utility is incidental. We're not a utility class; neither are assassins or sorcerors.</p>

[strider19]

You kind of missed my point too.  Apologies for the angry post earlier it's just easy to get angry when people say there is nothing wrong with a ranger when there clearly is.  My point wasn't that we need more utilities.  My point is that we don't have utilities, and we aren't a utility class, so to make up for that we need DPS..which we lack right now, severely.<div></div>

[Jer_]

<div><div><div><font face="Arial"><font size="2">I don't want utility<span class="236360922-28022006">, I want to shoot my bow.</span> I want <span class="236360922-28022006">ranged </span>DPS<span class="236360922-28022006">!! If I wanted utility I would have made a freakin bard.</span> I know it won't be like be<span class="236360922-28022006">fore but its pretty sad right now. I have mostly fabled/legendary gear adept3s/masters have been playing my ranger since Jan 05 and am averaging around 300 dps (with capped STR). I group with an assassian often and he is geared up  about the same and does about twice the dps I am doing (on average) these days. I'm not just parsing one fight here either, I'm talking hours or parsed combat with the same group of people.</span></font></font></div><div><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span class="236360922-28022006"></span></font></font> </div><div><font face="Arial"><font size="2"><span class="236360922-28022006">Don't tell me rangers aren't broken either, that just goes to show you don't have a clue what your talking about. K Thanks.</span></font></font></div></div></div>

[Jerana]

So do you guys think the Achievement Point system will help out at all? Or is that just another "fluff" added to make it look like they are updating with meaningful content?Jerana<div></div>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div>Only people who purchase KoS will get AA points, and SOE hasn't exactly done much to increase my incentive to purchase that in light of LU-20!

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>strider1987 wrote:You kind of missed my point too.  Apologies for the angry post earlier it's just easy to get angry when people say there is nothing wrong with a ranger when there clearly is.  My point wasn't that we need more utilities.  My point is that we don't have utilities, and we aren't a utility class, so to make up for that we need DPS..which we lack right now, severely.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>1. I never said there was nothing wrong with rangers.</p><p>2. I didn't miss your point, since you were repeating mine. ("...the point isn't who gets more utility, the point is that all four classes are *supposed* to provide the highest DPS in the game.&quot<img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>We're in agreement on point 2. Utility is more or less irrelevent b/c we're a DPS class, without much DPS.</p>

[Zaviur]

<div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><blockquote> </blockquote><p>We're in agreement on point 2. Utility is more or less irrelevent b/c we're a DPS class, without much DPS.</p><hr></blockquote>Sorry Jay if Utility is not irrelevent.  The basis of a classes dps is suppose to based on how much utility they have ie a bard has lots of utility hence little dps and ranger has little utility hence high dps of course in theory.  Now you have to factor in that three teirs of mage classes and a priest class can do more damage than us in 75% of the single group content plus they have more utiltiy is nothing to ignore.  To say it's irrelevent is to throw the class tree out and say rangers you bite live with it.</div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>I not sure i understand Zav's post... Jay isnt comparing us to other classes, and thus utility DOESNT matter. It DOESNT matter in the sense that we dont have it and dont want it. It DOES matter in the sense of class balancing, somthing that i feel most on these pages are utterly against in the first place...</p><p>When we say utility doesnt matter it is because we are attempting to not make this about "rogues get to do all this stoofs why not us? And if we cant why cant we do more dmg?"</p><p>Jay's main perogative is making and keeping this issue in house... This is most apparent by his edits on other posts where he actually deleted the names of the classes he was talking about.</p>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div><p>this nerf was by far the biggest that has occured in the game so far... dps is cut in less than half. Considering that we are the only 0 utility class in the game, it just seems right that we should dps well. ( dont count amazing shot or our unparalleled pulling ability as utility... thats just caust that ranga is a sick mofo) Lemme say it bluntly, because it seems like everyone is skirting the fact that a ranger's dps IS procs. Thats what we are, thats what we specialized in. Predator should be the premier dps class in the game. I mean assassin. cmon that just screams it...</p><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0000">You didnt play a Templar...they really stuck it to us on damage output as well as our HoT spells where reduced by 3/4.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">I DO play a templar... a 56 templar in fact in all legendary + gear... (cepta fews) Templars dont have hots. they have reactives.</font></p><p>by the by...any class can take an blue or green con heroic mob and solo it every 15 minutes while spells refresh...(see LT anytime ever.... there is always someone of any class farming for the conj staff solo) soe if u rilly wanna [Removed for Content] people off make it so SKILL is required for us to dps like we used too... that way u stop all the peeps rerolling everytime some class gets "overpowered"!!!</p><p> </p><p><font color="#ff0033">Templars can not solo green 2 arrow down.</font>  <font color="#ff0033">The reason you never saw it is because you could solo the whole time.</font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Templars have trouble soloing... they arent a solo class. They however can still solo these things, you must simply throw in a ton of pacifies, stuns, and manastones...and have a whole heck of a lotta time on our hands. They are utterly invaluable in groups, as they have big heals, debuffs, reactives, and their heal timers are short enough to chain. Take away these abilities as well as the soloing abilities, and you may start to understand where we are now. This isnt, however about class balancing. If you balance the classes, you have simply just destroyed them all IMHO.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0033">As for the nerfs...SOE will continue to lie to you and me until all of us stand up and just quit.  </font></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Pretty much</font></p></div><p></p><div>Debilitated Kymora50 Templar - BlackBurrowMay Tunare light your path and may your path enlighten you!!!</div><span><span class="date_text"><font color="#756b56">02-27-2006</font></span><span class="time_text">08:46 AM</span> </span>

[Zaviur]

<div></div>What I'm trying to say is that we traded our utility for straight DPS.  The fact of the matter is that we are constantly out dps by other classes that have far more utility than we do such as the top two mage classes and a priest class.  I'm not saying that they can out parse us on every single fight but when these classes out parse us 3/4 of the time something is wrong.  When people say utility doesn't matter and that everyone should be brought up to Tier one dps that's just wrong.  Tier one should out dps teir 2 and tier 2 should out dps tier 3 most of the time and right now that just not happening. 

[Steezi]

<div></div><div></div><p>Aye this is said in a much better fashion, and i think that anyone would have an extremely tough time argueing your points if they had any ground in fact.</p><p>t1>t2>t3 is not the case right now.</p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:55 PM</span></p>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zaviur wrote:<div></div>What I'm trying to say is that we traded our utility for straight DPS.  The fact of the matter is that we are constantly out dps by other classes that have far more utility than we do such as the top two mage classes and a priest class.  I'm not saying that they can out parse us on every single fight but when these classes out parse us 3/4 of the time something is wrong.  When people say utility doesn't matter and that everyone should be brought up to Tier one dps that's just wrong.  Tier one should out dps teir 2 and tier 2 should out dps tier 3 most of the time and right now that just not happening. <hr></blockquote><p>We're in agreement, Zav. Maybe my "utility is irrelevent" statement confused that point, but I've never said that "everyone should be brought up to T1 DPS" and I know that the DPS tiers are pretty screwed up at the moment. (Though FWIW, those much-lauded "tiers" are in a way one of the worst things that ever escaped the Devs' mouths.)</p><p>I said "utility is irrelevent" b/c I'm referring to the role of our class. We're not utility, we're DPS, but we're lacking the damage that we should have right now. The core DPS classes (preds and sorcs) are just that - DPS classes! I don't think anyone here thinks that any of those four professions are there to play a utility role. Like I've said before: wizards don't get invited to groups for powerfeeding, assassins don't get invited for hate transfers, and rangers don't get invited to debuff heat resist. We all get invited to do damage, so us rangers need a bit of a boost to the DPS if we're going to fill the role for which we're intended.</p><p>I hope that's clearer now. Thanks.</p>