The realistic list of things that need to be adjusted post LU 20.

[Kale27]

<div></div><div>Background - Been a ranger since Day 1. As an EQ1 ranger I feared the worst. When the combat revamp came out I was level 42.. I was in heaven! But I understand that we are not going to go back to pre LU20 damage. That being said here is what should be adjusted after the changes made to procs in LU20.</div><div>2 major factors to point out:</div><div> </div><div>I:     The problem for us in particular is that the majority of our CA's use a CONSUMABLE item (often MULTIPLE CONSUMABLE items). Im not sure that any other DPS classes have to pay for their damage outside the base cost of spells.</div><div> </div><div>II:    Basing our pre LU20 T1 damage on the fact that we BUY part of our damage is incorrect. Poisons should not be a necessity (it should be an added bonus). Our damage should be scaled and balanced NOT taking poison into account. This should be a bonus to our damage based on our spending habits.  Once again other classes do not spend money on top of spells to increase basic damage.</div><div> </div><div>That being the case I suggest the following:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>1. The major difference in our DPS is the lack of secondary procs when using multiple hitting CA's. Now that 1 CA can issue 1 Proc - only 1 arrow should be used. (the only exception I think should be Stream of Arrows. This should still use multiple arrows) Otherwise, if I fire 3 arrows, I should get 3 procs. Stances should not give the chance for proc however.</div><div> </div><div>If this does not happen then:</div><div> </div><div>2. The amount of arrows summoned should be increased or the recast time on the spell should be drastically decreased. The adept 1 arrow summon of 35 / 10 min is quite inadequate. Even the 60 of the master II is low. I can go thru 35 arrows in 2 fights easily.</div><div> </div><div>3. Regarding the summoned arrows - We need a spell to summon Indium arrows.  No explanation here.</div><div> </div><div>4. Poisons should be beefed up. If I am going to PAY for additional damage, it needs to be worth the money.</div><div> </div><div>None of these changes puts us back into T1 damage. That is fine. However if we want to stay in T2 damage, we should not need to pay for it. And if I am going to pay for extra damage, it needs to be worth while.</div><p>Message Edited by Kale27 on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:28 AM</span></p>

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>Kale27 wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div>1. The major difference in our DPS is the lack of secondary procs when using multiple hitting CA's. Now that 1 CA can issue 1 Proc - only 1 arrow should be used. (the only exception I think should be Stream of Arrows. This should still use multiple arrows) Otherwise, if I fire 3 arrows, I should get 3 procs. Stances should not give the chance for proc however.</div><hr></blockquote>You're mistaken.  That's the less significant part of the nerf.  The big part is that our proc rates no longer benefit from the high delays on our bows, so our proc rates have been greatly diminished.</span><div></div>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><p>I would add that we have skills that make said consumable ( arrow) free to us so that point is moot.</p><p>if you use them as soon as they are up the summon arrow skills are more than enough to keep you supplied in arrows ( and lets not get into an arrow tier argument again, ARROW TIER has no bearing on CA damage, only on auto-attacks.)</p><p>Seeing how auto attacks with bow are probably 1% of your total damage if not less, I fail to see how a new summon indium arrow skill would change anything in the current situation.......</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:20 PM</span></p>

[Tes Mar'a]

I just have the feeling, if all this proc is so big a problem for them to balance, then remove damage poison.Give us the extra damage on oure CA, We will not have to hope for a lucky proc to make the fight, and we will save ALOT for money not have to buy posion.And about the summon arrow, we have to get the skill at lvl 1, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, and 60. And then it has to summon the arrow for that tier.That just how I feel right now<div></div>

[Kale27]

You are right about the long delay making us proc more.. But the ability to proc with 3 arrows in one shot was what made Triple Fire such an awesome skill. Now its realistically a waste of arrows. And as far as arrows being consumable I understand that its moot at this point, however Poison is a must have and that aint free.ugh EQ1 rangers here we come again  =(<div></div>

[Runewind]

I've asked this before but I never got an answer. Does the no-multi-hit proc thing affect Stream of Arrows? Like is it 1 proc in 30 seconds now?<div></div>

[klepp]

<p> </p><p>good post, i agree, all valid points</p>

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><p><font size="4" color="#99ff99">NO ADAMANTIUM ARROWS FROM VENDORSWEAPON (PRIZZY 2.0) IS ONLY PROCING IN MY OFF HANDSTARTED NEW LEVEL WITH 4% VITALITYRANGER AA LINE FOR AGILITY DECREASES CAST TIME OF CA'S CONSIDERABLY (GUESS WHAT THAT WILL DO TO PROCS)DPS CUT IN HALFEVAC A GROUP IN KoS AND YOU WILL LOSE A GROUP MATE IN A RANDOM WRONG ZONESTREAM OF ARROWS HAS NOT PROCED A POISON OR GLEAMING STRIKE ONCE YET</font></p>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dirtgirl wrote:<div></div><p><font size="4" color="#99ff99">NO ADAMANTIUM ARROWS FROM VENDORSWEAPON (PRIZZY 2.0) IS ONLY PROCING IN MY OFF HANDSTARTED NEW LEVEL WITH 4% VITALITYRANGER AA LINE FOR AGILITY DECREASES CAST TIME OF CA'S CONSIDERABLY (GUESS WHAT THAT WILL DO TO PROCS)DPS CUT IN HALFEVAC A GROUP IN KoS AND YOU WILL LOSE A GROUP MATE IN A RANDOM WRONG ZONESTREAM OF ARROWS HAS NOT PROCED A POISON OR GLEAMING STRIKE ONCE YET</font></p><hr></blockquote><p>Stream of arrows is proccing as expected from my parses ( about every 4 arrows in the stream you get a proc).</p><p>Poison proc rate is 12.5%, Quick shot proc rate is 15%, Gleaming Strike proc care is 2.5% on each arrow in the stream.</p>

[A]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TwistedRiddles wrote:I've asked this before but I never got an answer. Does the no-multi-hit proc thing affect Stream of Arrows? Like is it 1 proc in 30 seconds now?<div></div><hr></blockquote>Nope it doesn't, each arrow in the stream can proc.

[Tasye]

Get rid of all the devs and hire people that know what they are doing.<div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><div>Starry's ok. Doesnt do thing badly at least... (dunno about doin things well, im not xperienced enuff)</div><p> </p><p>Other than that im just sick of reading their lies.</p>

[JackFet]

<div>Since they've removed the 'error' that was causing very very very long delay weapons such as our 7 seconds between shots bows to have too high a proc percentage, can we get the multiple-chances on multiple-shot skills back? Please?</div><div> </div><div>As far as I can tell, our multiple arrow skills have a to-hit roll on each of the successive arrows, and with considerably lower chances for poisoning, etc. the reason for making this change in the first place seems to be gone.</div>

[ADW123]

<font color="#ffff00"></font><blockquote><hr>Kale27 wrote:<div></div><div>Background - Been a ranger since Day 1. As an EQ1 ranger I feared the worst. When the combat revamp came out I was level 42.. I was in heaven! But I understand that we are not going to go back to pre LU20 damage. That being said here is what should be adjusted after the changes made to procs in LU20.</div><div>2 major factors to point out:</div><div> </div><div>I:     The problem for us in particular is that the majority of our CA's use a CONSUMABLE item (often MULTIPLE CONSUMABLE items). Im not sure that any other DPS classes have to pay for their damage outside the base cost of spells.</div><div> </div><div>II:    Basing our pre LU20 T1 damage on the fact that we BUY part of our damage is incorrect. Poisons should not be a necessity (it should be an added bonus). Our damage should be scaled and balanced NOT taking poison into account. This should be a bonus to our damage based on our spending habits.  Once again other classes do not spend money on top of spells to increase basic damage.</div><div> </div><div>That being the case I suggest the following:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>1. The major difference in our DPS is the lack of secondary procs when using multiple hitting CA's. Now that 1 CA can issue 1 Proc - only 1 arrow should be used. (the only exception I think should be Stream of Arrows. This should still use multiple arrows) Otherwise, if I fire 3 arrows, I should get 3 procs. Stances should not give the chance for proc however.</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#ffff00">I agree  with this. Now that our proc rates are like 3% chance or something ridiculus when casting this there is no reason it should not proc off all shots. Putting this back in would provide almost no dps increase but it should work like this anyway.</font></em></div><div><em><font color="#ffff00"></font></em> </div><div>If this does not happen then:</div><div> </div><div>2. The amount of arrows summoned should be increased or the recast time on the spell should be drastically decreased. The adept 1 arrow summon of 35 / 10 min is quite inadequate. Even the 60 of the master II is low. I can go thru 35 arrows in 2 fights easily.</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#ffff00">I agree with this as well, unless the upcoming changes to arrows make them more reasonable to purchase high quality arrows from woodworkers. If this doesn't happen they should be doubled atleast or cut the recast down to like 5 minutes. Or both.</font></em></div><div> </div><div>3. Regarding the summoned arrows - We need a spell to summon Indium arrows.  No explanation here.</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#ffff00">Currently the new summon arrow at 62, Reclaimed Arrows summons Adamantine arrows so this is finally fixed on this tier of the class. All the rest of the arrow summons need to be moved up to summon a higher tier then they currently do. Feyiron should summon fulginate, fulginate should summon indium, etc...</font></em></div><div> </div><div>4. Poisons should be beefed up. If I am going to PAY for additional damage, it needs to be worth the money.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ffff00"><em>Really with the way they are heading w/ poisons I don't think they are going to improve them anymore. The upcoming t7 poisons are worse in many cases to the t6 rares poisons. It would be nice to have an upgrade but really w/ the proc nerf it wouldn't be a dramatic increase in damage.</em></font></div><div> </div><div>None of these changes puts us back into T1 damage. That is fine. However if we want to stay in T2 damage, we should not need to pay for it. And if I am going to pay for extra damage, it needs to be worth while.</div><div> </div><div><em><font color="#ffff00">Agreed, In order for me to just do tier 2 damage at the moment I'm forced to blow 50gp an hour on indium arrows and legendary poisons. There is much more that needs to be done.</font></em></div><hr></blockquote><p>Sacrifice62 RangerUnrest</p>

[tweety1972]

<div></div><p>The lower tier dammage should be raised some to bring us in line with the rest of T1 from level 10 thru 30. After 30 it is ok but I don't know anything about past 35. One thing that would really help is being able to stun the whole group instead of just one target.</p><p>One on one I can still take a single ^^^ white or yellow non casting. Groups of 2 are No arrow white or lower and anything in a group of three that isn't green kicks my butt. We would benifit from something like thorny trap (single mob trap right?) earlier or a group stun, so we can use our ranged CA's in the middle of our fight.</p><p>And for those of you wondering</p><p>35 Ranger</p><p>all adept 1 or master 2</p><p>mostly feysteel none imbued and I finally got my PGT with a briarwood non imbued bow.</p>

[Moncreat]

<div></div><div></div><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ____</p><p>Ail Said</p><p>if you use them as soon as they are up the summon arrow skills are more than enough to keep you supplied in arrows</p><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</p><p> </p><p>This might be true when you are soloing but when I get in a group in Sanctum or other Dungeon then I have to make sure that I have atleast 750+ arrows plus keep summoning them every 10 minutes ( and that is using the master summon of 65 arrows at a time) if I want to still have arrows after two hours of play.  And yes I am the type of ranger that does all my arrow CA's go in for combat battle back out reuse my arrow CA's and back in again.</p><p> </p><p>I can easily go through those summon every 10 minute arrows in a short time with just a few battles in Sanctum.</p><p> </p><p>I might suggest that when you are out collecting or harvesting that you also remember to summon arrows that way when you get in a good group you have a stock already in your quiver and then hopefully you will not run out.</p><p>I would also suggest to those of you that are buying a lot of Legendary poisons that only have a chance to proc 4 times as opposed to the 180 times that non legendary poisons proc than maybe only use those for named encounters or such.  That is unless you have the money to spend on the Legendary Poisons.  Yes there are some really nice upfront dd and ticks on those rare poisons but when I am in a group that I know can handle most the mobs I would rather use something like Ravaging Disruption for mobs that I know will not be a long battle (322dd + 53dd + 53/tick 25% proc rate) or maybe Soul Bane (68dd + 178dd+ 178/tick 25% proc rate) or Spine Jolt (135dd +118dd+ 118/tick 25% proc rate)</p><p>Granted there are not any of those out that there that beat those up front dd of Adeste Disruption (451dd) or the high tick rate of Torment of Rijacki (325/tick) but again those only have 4 procs in them.  If those number of times one charge could proc would be raised from 4 to like 80, than that would justify for me the cost to buy those poisons and use them in all kinds of battles instead of just soloing or named mobs.</p><p>Message Edited by Moncreathe on <span class="date_text">03-01-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:28 AM</span></p>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Ail wrote:<div></div><div></div><p>I would add that we have skills that make said consumable ( arrow) free to us so that point is moot.</p><hr></blockquote>Not True prior to LU20 I was in CT with a group going around on the ground outside the piramid and I was going through my arrows like crazy.  It got to the point that I had to melee only just to wait for the timer to refresh.  Oh and I was using the master 2 so I was getting 65 arrows a pop.

[Generic123]

<div></div><blockquote><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr>JackFetch wrote:<div><font size="2" color="#ffffff">Since they've removed the 'error' that was causing very very very long delay weapons such as our 7 seconds between shots bows to have too high a proc percentage, can we get the multiple-chances on multiple-shot skills back? Please?</font></div><div><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font> </div><div><font size="2" color="#ffffff">As far as I can tell, our multiple arrow skills have a to-hit roll on each of the successive arrows, and with considerably lower chances for poisoning, etc. the reason for making this change in the first place seems to be gone.</font></div><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2">The way procs now work everyone should be getting the same number of them from any given poison, ability, buff.<span>  </span>I.E. a buff or poison with a 25% chance should proc once on autoattack an average of once every 12 seconds and once from CA’s every 12 seconds no matter who is using it or what their weapon speed is. This is assuming you chain your attacks and the same normalization rules as autoattack apply to CA’s. </font></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2">Having a proc chance on each arrow of a multi arrow attack would mean they need to lower the proc chance in order to keep proc rates constant.<span>  </span>The only place it makes any difference is for an attack like stream of arrows where the proc rate would exceed 100% if the normal rules applied.<span>  It <span><font face="Arial" color="#ffffff"><font size="2">seems the devs have anticipated this and made an allowance for it and set it to work in the more favorable fashion, this gives me confidence that they have also anticipated and accounted for the other potential pitfalls like accounting for recovery time</font>.</font></span></span></font></font></p><p><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font color="#ffffff">There is still a small benefit to a slow weapon like a longbow in that it’s more likely to proc early in the fight.  This may allow it to do slightly more damage if the proc is a DoT.</font><span> </span></font></font></p>