Food for thought

[A]

<div>Yes our potential damage was reduced by roughly 50% as show the parsed damage with damage type distribution.</div><div>However how often pre LU20 were we able to go full out damage without having to worry about grabbing aggro from the tank ?</div><div>I know personally in raids or even groups I was often working at 70% to 75% of my dps capacity so not to anger the MT by stealing his aggro and never ever used StoA each time it was up and always paid attention to use a few detaunts before cliquing that deadly button...</div><div> </div><div>Now I don't have to worry anymore as it seems I can't really steal aggro from MT except if I use sniping shot at the start of the fight and this means I can use my bow CAs much more, especially SToA which I can use as often as it is available ( and it still provides at least 450+dps for 30 seconds). This means I can actually go full out and due to that the effective dps reduction feels more like it is around 30% and I believe I am more in line with where I should be.</div><div>One drawback though is that for my dps to bear I need fights not to be over in mere seconds ( so that skills like SToA can bear their full damage) which means I believe I am actually more effective in a group with overall low dps than in a group loaded with dps classes which would kill heroics ^^^ in seconds....</div><div> </div><div>As for the aggro management issue I believe aggro will once again become an issue once we start loading up on AAs ( several untimely ranged crits in a row could be bad) however it won't be as bad as before and we should be able to take care of it with the aggro management tools we have and not have to reduce our dps susbtantially like we had to in the past....</div>

[Sirlutt]

I was able to go full our Pre LU20 whenever i grouped with a Paladin because they have "god mode" agro.  .. i was literally able to open up with what ever I liked, use what ever poisons I liked (Adestes all the time) and never pulled agro from him.  Amends is THAT good.<div></div>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Sirlutt wrote:I was able to go full our Pre LU20 whenever i grouped with a Paladin because they have "god mode" agro.  .. i was literally able to open up with what ever I liked, use what ever poisons I liked (Adestes all the time) and never pulled agro from him.  Amends is THAT good.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I have to agree with you on this. our guild has an awsome pally tank. been duo with him since level 10. i used to unload all the time and get no aggro. never even needed to use the slip line. our pally rocks the aggro management</p><p>bongo</p>

[Mary the Prophetess]

<div></div><p>The real problem which I see this change having made is not in groups.  It is the solo players who are bearing the brunt of this.</p><p>EQ is not a very 'solo friendly' game.  The developers make a nod in the direction of solo players from time to time, (ie: instanced dungeons and such), but by and large, soloers are at a disadvantage compared to those that group.  This is by design.</p><p>Now Rangers enter that solo arena at a horrible disadvantage.</p>

[A]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Mary the Prophetess wrote:<div></div><p>The real problem which I see this change having made is not in groups.  It is the solo players who are bearing the brunt of this.</p><p>EQ is not a very 'solo friendly' game.  The developers make a nod in the direction of solo players from time to time, (ie: instanced dungeons and such), but by and large, soloers are at a disadvantage compared to those that group.  This is by design.</p><p>Now Rangers enter that solo arena at a horrible disadvantage.</p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes our solo powers has been reduced a lot but we had such a huge advantage before I'm not sure we are that low now ( I don't wear all fabled eq and my CAs are a mix of master, adept 3 and adept 1 with my STR at 265 and before the first change to SToA and then this patch I was taking on heroics^^^ my level or above me ( there was some risk against mobs higher than me but any blue heroic was pretty much cake)</p><p>I can still take on 2 arrow downs blue or white mobs at a time or a single no arrow mob my level and if I am at maxed hp at the start of the fight I don't risk much ( died a couple times starting fights at 50% hp when before it wasn't a problem because a solo mob wouldn't reach me to make any damage...)...</p><p>I can take on 1 arrow up mobs my level too but if I don't want to kite or the fight to be close I have to have sniping shot up ( and when it is up it's a walk in the park and the fight lasts 10 seconds...).</p><p>In my view we are still better off than we were before LU13 and DoF.</p><p>We lost kiting mostly but we gained sniping shot and Stream of Arrow and our group dps is better than it was back there...</p><p>Message Edited by Ail on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:15 PM</span></p>

[Jayad]

<div></div><p>So... aggro is not a problem because our DPS sucks, and this is a good thing?</p><p>Rangers also don't use poisons rapidly.  Is this also a good thing?  It's just DPS that's gone, is all.</p>

[xfres]

<div>So many rangers don't understand the 2 of our major ability lines!  They are aggro reducers and  prevent you from pulling aggro.  Upgrade your primal reflexes and slip ability lines and you will notice a world of a difference.  If you know youre going to do a lot of damage to a mob thats going to take a while to kill then chain your Slip ability line.  Works for me and I have all master spells and some of the best gear you can buy.  Hope this works, good luck!</div>

[Mirdo]

<div>Ail,</div><div> </div><div>You currently can't steal agro because, overall, you will find your damage output is about 50% of what it used to be - probably worse in raid situations.</div><div> </div><div>And do really think it's good that at full bore we are only as effective as the group having say, another tank? Why take a Ranger in for DPS in a group or raid if you can take someone with better mitigation and higher hitpoints and achieve the same effect (actually, another tank could increase the effectiveness of your groups tank - even better!). </div><div> </div><div>Note: tanks only used as an illustration - I want no classes changed except Rangers in this repect.</div><div> </div><div>If we don't need to use our agro reducers why have them (and believe me, right now we don't need them)? Doesn't this show that something is wrong somewhere unless SoE really just couldn't think of another skill line for us so gave us a useless line of agro reducers?</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div>Ah but pre LU20 and Post LU13 we did need those agro reducers.  Not so now :smileysad:

[Mirdo]

<div>Point taken, they were as useless pre 13 as they are now. I just get the feeling that they were put there for a reason. It's just it seems SoE don't seem to be able to juggle the numbers quite right - either overpowered or underpowered - maybe third time will be the charm?</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><p>The sad thing is that the Everquest teams (both 1 and 2) have a bad habit of seeing a fly on the window and running for the hammer to kill it.  They rarely if ever "tweak" anything they usually do several broad changes at once.  This means that sorting out what change is causing what is very difficult and usually never gets fixed because they are being pushed to finish up the next great coding experiment they are working on.</p>