Parses of my first hour in Kos.

[Sirlutt]

<div></div>Exact same equipment I had on for the last ones (including those too) - I am glad I have a guardian alt because our guardian MT was matching me or exceding me on solo mobs... i was ahead on heroics, but only by 20-50 DPS... by the way the poison procs include the DOT aswell, so dont get excited.Summary:Total Time Spent Fighting:  610 SecondsTotal Melee Damage Inflicted:  42121Overal Melee Damage Per Second:  69.0Total Weapon Swing Count:  556Avr Weapon Delay:  1.097Total Melee Hits (inc arts):  777Ripostes Count:  3Parry Count:  17Arts and Spells:Triple Arrow: 7879 / used 9 times avr  875.44declining periodic poison: 30839 / used 99 times avr  311.51Fatal Reminder: 10152 / used 97 times avr  104.66Lunging Blade: 8898 / used 103 times avr  86.39Shocking Thrust: 8804 / used 27 times avr  326.07Arrow Rip: 6088 / used 16 times avr  380.5Precise Shot: 5012 / used 11 times avr  455.64Quick Shot: 6401 / used 20 times avr  320.05Snaring Shot: 856 / used 5 times avr  171.2Sanguine Feedback: 2592 / used 16 times avr  162Gleaming Strike: 3824 / used 13 times avr  294.15Culling the Weak: 2003 / used 2 times avr  1001.5Debilitating Arrow: 1089 / used 2 times avr  544.5Miracle Arrow: 1245 / used 3 times avr  415Storm of Arrows: 3950 / used 2 times avr  1975Confusion Arrow: 364 / used 1 times avr  364Dire Blade: 1081 / used 1 times avr  1081Shocking Thrust critically: 1070 / used 3 times avr  356.67Sanguine Feedback critically: 203 / used 1 times avr  203Lunging Blade critically: 84 / used 1 times avr  84declining periodic poison critically: 279 / used 3 times avr  93Total Art and Spell Damage: 102713Overal Damage: 144834Overal Damage per second:  237.4--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------(snip'd out the details of each fight)<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:22 AM</span></p>

[Sirlutt]

<div></div>Pre KOSSummary:Total Time Spent Fighting:  1294 SecondsTotal Melee Damage Inflicted:  73243Overal Melee Damage Per Second:  56.6Total Weapon Swing Count:  272Avr Weapon Delay:  4.757Total Melee Hits (inc arts):  906Ripostes Count:  0Parry Count:  0Arts and Spells:Triple Arrow: 28102 / used 33 times avr  851.58declining periodic poison: 209192 / used 319 times avr  655.77Divine Strike: 16992 / used 147 times avr  115.59Quick Shot: 125148 / used 301 times avr  415.77Gleaming Strike: 31647 / used 102 times avr  310.26Fatal Reminder: 2305 / used 19 times avr  121.32Shocking Thrust: 1430 / used 4 times avr  357.5Arrow Rip: 1246 / used 3 times avr  415.33Debilitating Arrow: 16437 / used 27 times avr  608.78Precise Shot: 26614 / used 56 times avr  475.25Storm of Arrows: 8593 / used 2 times avr  4296.5Miracle Arrow: 10661 / used 24 times avr  444.21Snaring Shot: 13536 / used 60 times avr  225.6Confusion Arrow: 12859 / used 33 times avr  389.67Culling the Weak: 9826 / used 10 times avr  982.6Lunging Blade: 2183 / used 21 times avr  103.95Sniper Shot: 6242 / used 1 times avr  6242Sanguine Feedback: 157 / used 1 times avr  157Total Art and Spell Damage: 523170Overal Damage: 596413Overal Damage per second:  460.9--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------<div></div><p>Message Edited by Sirlutt on <span class="date_text">02-22-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:22 AM</span></p>

[klepp]

<div></div>yep, keep showin those numbers.. only thing that may work i nour favor.. its funny half the time the mobs hp doent move... i think im missing and [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]

[Varroon]

<div>But..but...SoE said 50% of our damage IS NOT based on procs..they would NEVER lie to us..would they? /sarcasm</div>

[Niuan]

<div></div>Yes my parses are showing the same.... over 50% damage nerf to rangers.  I feel like a gimped tank class now.

[leafnin]

<div></div><p>Well there's some data.  They said they'd look into it if it was over done.  Well time to put up or shut up.  Ball is in their court.</p><p> </p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>leafnin wrote:<div></div><p>Well there's some data.  They said they'd look into it if it was over done.  Well time to put up or shut up.  Ball is in their court.</p><p> </p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p><hr></blockquote><p>Me being synical... border line diabolical...  I think we are right where they want us to be.  Honestly how can they not know what makes the character they created play in the world they envisioned?  How can they not know how a ranger does dps?</p><p>PVP was reason rangers were gimped. </p>

[Arhan]

<div><blockquote><hr>Varroon wrote:<div>But..but...SoE said 50% of our damage IS NOT based on procs..they would NEVER lie to us..would they? /sarcasm</div><hr></blockquote>i have tons of pie charts and I know 45-50+% of our damage is from quick shot and poison prekos....  Haven't seen that statement but....yeah before kos 50+% was from procs</div>

[Lenar]

<div></div>Just log off from my first test of kos, and I must say that my solo ability is realy bad after the changes. Haven't tested my group dps yet, and hopefully it will be better.

[klepp]

<div></div>sorry hasied, it wont be =/

[ryan]

Yes it's mostly due to PvP. See people were screaming and yelling that in PvP you have to make it FAIR you have to make it where everyone is EVEN so everyone has a chance at killing each other. After all how fair would it be for a team of rangers to just camp outside Fp or Qey and just pick people off. That wouldn't be fair. So what happend BLAMO let's make it to where those ranger punks can't kill ANYTHING. (yes i'm bitter).Well guess what you PvP people in the REAL EQ2 some classes are SUPOSED to be better at some thing than others. I don't want to Mez or heal or tank or buff or debuff I want to burn the HP of the mob. That's why i spent alot of time thinking about what kind of toon I wanted and chose the ranger. Guess what Gaurds are suposed to be better tanks then conjs and you know what?! a Templar is suposed to heal better than a nec oo oo and guess what My ranger toon. . . it's SUPOSED to be able to out dps my tank. . . .I can't now. My dps has been made more EVEN to that of my tanks and everyone else so now I offer NO speciality to my group or raid. Well thanks soe. Instead of being usefull in a team play environment (or even be able to solo anything worth a dam) I'm now even with everyone else in DPS (but certanily not anything else since DPS is all I got) so make it so i can't kill ppl on pvp that I don't even play.Yes i'm whining. . .well I spent a year of my life playing this ranger to see it turned worthless I don't appreciate that. I now bring nothing to the table and it doesn't feel good.<div></div>

[Briz]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>ryantj wrote:Yes it's mostly due to PvP. See people were screaming and yelling that in PvP you have to make it FAIR you have to make it where everyone is EVEN so everyone has a chance at killing each other. After all how fair would it be for a team of rangers to just camp outside Fp or Qey and just pick people off. That wouldn't be fair. So what happend BLAMO let's make it to where those ranger punks can't kill ANYTHING. (yes i'm bitter).Well guess what you PvP people in the REAL EQ2 some classes are SUPOSED to be better at some thing than others. I don't want to Mez or heal or tank or buff or debuff I want to burn the HP of the mob. That's why i spent alot of time thinking about what kind of toon I wanted and chose the ranger. Guess what Gaurds are suposed to be better tanks then conjs and you know what?! a Templar is suposed to heal better than a nec oo oo and guess what My ranger toon. . . it's SUPOSED to be able to out dps my tank. . . .I can't now. My dps has been made more EVEN to that of my tanks and everyone else so now I offer NO speciality to my group or raid. Well thanks soe. Instead of being usefull in a team play environment (or even be able to solo anything worth a dam) I'm now even with everyone else in DPS (but certanily not anything else since DPS is all I got) so make it so i can't kill ppl on pvp that I don't even play.Yes i'm whining. . .well I spent a year of my life playing this ranger to see it turned worthless I don't appreciate that. I now bring nothing to the table and it doesn't feel good.<div></div><hr></blockquote>PvP has nothing to do with this. CA effects are separated between PvE and PvP. This is by design, so PvP nerfs don't affect PvE, and vice versa. I'm not saying that this change is heavy handed, and that you don't have a right to complain - I'm just saying that your argument is flawed because it's simply not true.</span></div>

[TwistedFaith]

<blockquote><hr>Brizzy wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>ryantj wrote:Yes it's mostly due to PvP. See people were screaming and yelling that in PvP you have to make it FAIR you have to make it where everyone is EVEN so everyone has a chance at killing each other. After all how fair would it be for a team of rangers to just camp outside Fp or Qey and just pick people off. That wouldn't be fair. So what happend BLAMO let's make it to where those ranger punks can't kill ANYTHING. (yes i'm bitter).Well guess what you PvP people in the REAL EQ2 some classes are SUPOSED to be better at some thing than others. I don't want to Mez or heal or tank or buff or debuff I want to burn the HP of the mob. That's why i spent alot of time thinking about what kind of toon I wanted and chose the ranger. Guess what Gaurds are suposed to be better tanks then conjs and you know what?! a Templar is suposed to heal better than a nec oo oo and guess what My ranger toon. . . it's SUPOSED to be able to out dps my tank. . . .I can't now. My dps has been made more EVEN to that of my tanks and everyone else so now I offer NO speciality to my group or raid. Well thanks soe. Instead of being usefull in a team play environment (or even be able to solo anything worth a dam) I'm now even with everyone else in DPS (but certanily not anything else since DPS is all I got) so make it so i can't kill ppl on pvp that I don't even play.Yes i'm whining. . .well I spent a year of my life playing this ranger to see it turned worthless I don't appreciate that. I now bring nothing to the table and it doesn't feel good.<div></div><hr></blockquote>PvP has nothing to do with this. CA effects are separated between PvE and PvP. This is by design, so PvP nerfs don't affect PvE, and vice versa. I'm not saying that this change is heavy handed, and that you don't have a right to complain - I'm just saying that your argument is flawed because it's simply not true.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Then tell me why debilitating arrow was nerfed? A skill we have always been able to kite with why nerf it now? Ask the crusaders the same question about some of their skills.I think your being incredibly nieve to say that changes to PvP are not effecting the PvE servers.My belief is that they simly couldnt balance the proc situation for PvP and decided to 'fix/nerf' to get a better handle on it for PvP balancing.

[Arthik]

Actually, I heard that ranger nerfs, hybrid nerfs, etc. were because of PvP.Rangers do a crapton of damage, but that's their role. That's what they're supposed to do.Works fine in PvE, don't it? After all, that's their job.So where does it NOT work?PvP.And now we have the rangers getting gimped in PvE... And I really do have this sneaking suspicion that it's because of PvP.<div></div>

[leafnin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>leafnin wrote:<div></div><p>Well there's some data.  They said they'd look into it if it was over done.  Well time to put up or shut up.  Ball is in their court.</p><p> </p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p><hr></blockquote><p>Me being synical... border line diabolical...  I think we are right where they want us to be.  Honestly how can they not know what makes the character they created play in the world they envisioned?  How can they not know how a ranger does dps?</p><p>PVP was reason rangers were gimped. </p><hr></blockquote><p>Oh they know excately what they are doing.  They want to play clueless then I'll play along for now.  If they say this is working as intended ...well I'd like to see the statistics for the number of Ranger characters that were benched/retired within 24 hours of the post.  This is not fun.</p><p> </p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p>

[Nezzr]

I have to admit that I was one of the first on the "nerf rangers" bandwagon.  I was just sick and tired of being out DPS'd by someone who didnt need much skill to play their class.  Truthfully, I think this nerf is just too much.  One of my best friends played a ranger, and he was constantly being out DPS'd by myself and the other assassin in our group, and almost always both monks.  Plus, from what I hear they made all the ranged combat arts interruptable, so no more kiting.  They must not have realized that this means no more ranger soloing at all.  When all but 3 of a classes combat arts are ranged, and they dont have any beefy roots, how can you expect them to be able to solo in the least bit?  Give rangers some love, bring em even with Assassins where they should be.  Predetors are meant to be T1 DPS, no reason for Rangers to be T3.<div></div>

[illum]

<div></div><p>what's even more amusing is I just jumped onto the Wizard forum (I also play a wizard so no flames plz...well, flame if you want :smileyvery-happy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />, and they are STILL complaining post LU20 that rangers out DPS them.</p><p>what does this tell me?  a lot of morons play wizards...my wizard way outclasses my ranger now.</p>

[Christofurious]

I've got a level 31 Ranger with the level 20s legendary poison resist debuff poison, stun poison, and legendary high upfront damage poison going.  Averagely equiped armor and jewelry wise, got some imbued steel weapons from the 20s (I just hit my 30s over the weekend and didn't plan ahead <span>:smileytongue:</span>).  I ran out to Thundering Steppes last night and was screwing around doing the centaur banner quests.  One of the quests requires like 6 Highland Stalkers.  I run over to one and start hitting my bow CAs.  I swear that stalker got a serious speed increase because I was only able to get one bow attack off!  After that, I just kept spamming my melee attacks and was hopping around like a Mexican jumping bean trying to position myself.  After the fight was over, I killed him...but it took like 20 seconds and the darn lion got me down to yellow...YELLOW!  Oh, by the way, that lion was a level 23 or 24.  What's the big deal, you may ask?  Before, I was able to A) one shot stuff that was that green to me or B) two shot it with the stun poison procing.  Now, while I realize that rangers were overpowered before..that isn't the issue.  I didn't even want to try and solo even level mobs...thank goodness the server crashed a couple of times...it prevented me from most likely dying at the hands of a blue mob <span>:smileyhappy:</span>. As far as poisons go, in the first 14 things I killed (they were grey or green..I know, its sad) I only noticed the damage poison proc once.  I don't parse my dps or anything like that, so I'm just going off of my own perceptions.  My stun poison never went off on bow attacks, and its usually so hectic meleeing up close that I don't notice when it procs off of a melee hit.  It seemed like I was better off not using most of my poisons.  All this is fine to me, I guess, because I was tired of logging on my Alchemist anyway.Numbers and parses and examples aside, what it boils down to is...Is this class fun to play now?  I'll only speak for myself on this, but my answer is nope, not so much anymore.  But if they scale back some of these drastic changes then my answer may change.  I won't ask them to restore us to our former glory of just a few days ago, because we all know that won't happen anytime soon.  But please meet us halfway or <i>something</i>!<div></div>

[Shinta]

They've absolutely DESTROYED the class now. What do we have to offer? ooooooo, pathfinding... wow. Big whooptie-Fing-do. There is NOTHING  we offer groups now, if we can't be at least ONE of the highest DPS, I don't care if we're on par with wizard or slightly under, we need to at LEAST out damage any and every other class. Otherwise we're completely useless. What a waste of my fing time and money. Thanks a lot sony.<div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>2 1/2 hours of continous pulling type XP (our tank is a mad man lol) and I used up barely one application of damage poison.</p><p> </p>

[Kthaara]

<div></div><p>Another nerf not listed in the update notes was that we cannot use debilitating Arrow while moving now.  Pre-nerf we could.  The only run & gun arrow CA is now Storm of arrows.</p><p>Keep the procs the way they are, but give us the ability to move and use our bows again.  That would even it out.  A bit.  Maybe.  It would certainly help the solo players.</p><p>I am so glad that I did not pre-order KOS.</p><p>Kwentavius 55 Ranger</p><p>Jabird 42 Conjurer</p>

[JaymenM]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>Yes it's mostly due to PvP. See people were screaming and yelling that in PvP you have to make it FAIR you have to make it where everyone is EVEN so everyone has a chance at killing each other. After all how fair would it be for a team of rangers to just camp outside Fp or Qey and just pick people off. That wouldn't be fair. So what happend BLAMO let's make it to where those ranger punks can't kill ANYTHING. (yes i'm bitter).Well guess what you PvP people in the REAL EQ2 some classes are SUPOSED to be better at some thing than others. I don't want to Mez or heal or tank or buff or debuff I want to burn the HP of the mob. That's why i spent alot of time thinking about what kind of toon I wanted and chose the ranger. Guess what Gaurds are suposed to be better tanks then conjs and you know what?! a Templar is suposed to heal better than a nec oo oo and guess what My ranger toon. . . it's SUPOSED to be able to out dps my tank. . . .I can't now. My dps has been made more EVEN to that of my tanks and everyone else so now I offer NO speciality to my group or raid. Well thanks soe. Instead of being usefull in a team play environment (or even be able to solo anything worth a dam) I'm now even with everyone else in DPS (but certanily not anything else since DPS is all I got) so make it so i can't kill ppl on pvp that I don't even play.Yes i'm whining. . .well I spent a year of my life playing this ranger to see it turned worthless I don't appreciate that. I now bring nothing to the table and it doesn't feel good.</p><div></div><p></p><div>SpyronLevel 60 RangerFormerly on InnothuleCurrently on Crushbone</div><p>__________________________________________________ __________________________________________________ ___</p><p>i totaly agree with this rangers do not have anything but straight out raw dps, or did before we got f..... we may have a debuff for heat and then another for avoidance on the mob but thats it look at rogues they got major debuffs and my swashy friend use to get the same ammount of dps as me pre kos so tell me what rangers are good for...............NOTHING!!!!!</p><p>Inau 57 ranger</p><p>mistmoore</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by JaymenM on <span class="date_text">02-23-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:25 PM</span></p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Nezzrek wrote:I have to admit that I was one of the first on the "nerf rangers" bandwagon.  I was just sick and tired of being out DPS'd by someone who didnt need much skill to play their class.  Truthfully, I think this nerf is just too much.  One of my best friends played a ranger, and he was constantly being out DPS'd by myself and the other assassin in our group, and almost always both monks.  Plus, from what I hear they made all the ranged combat arts interruptable, so no more kiting.  They must not have realized that this means no more ranger soloing at all.  When all but 3 of a classes combat arts are ranged, and they dont have any beefy roots, how can you expect them to be able to solo in the least bit?  Give rangers some love, bring em even with Assassins where they should be.  Predetors are meant to be T1 DPS, no reason for Rangers to be T3.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>i have 1 archery attack that i can move while casting but it's positional from behind the mob. i have 4 melee attacks that have no positional requirements. 2 are DOTs and 2 are DD. i have 4 positional (i need to be behind the mob to use) melee attacks 3 of which i need to be stealthed. the one that doesn't require stealth to cast will stealth me when it lands. as for soloing i can do it without much trouble. there may be some levels where it becomes more difficult to solo. i can only comment on the mid 40s. as for the DPS being too low i am still gathering parses from ACT. i have posted my solo parses without using poisons. the average was 284.47 for 42 mobs without waiting for CAs to refresh. i just attacked the next mob i saw with what was available. ranger DPS should be on par with assassins. unfortunally i dont know any mid 40 assassins so if anyone know some please have them post parses.</p><p>bongo</p>

[ShadarLoco]

<div></div><p>also stealth nurfed all our cast times</p><p> </p><p>it still states 1.5 dly on bow attacks like triple and stream of arrows, snaring shot</p><p> </p><p>and 1 sec for persice </p><p>but if you count it out all 1.5's are now 3 sec and 1 sec cast times are now 2.5  dont know about other just need to count out manualy so they also half stream of arrows dmg by that and also made are arrow focus spell worthless...</p>

[Tarryn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Brizzy wrote:<div><span>PvP has nothing to do with this. CA effects are separated between PvE and PvP. This is by design, so PvP nerfs don't affect PvE, and vice versa. I'm not saying that this change is heavy handed, and that you don't have a right to complain - I'm just saying that your argument is flawed because it's simply not true.</span></div><hr></blockquote>CA effects are seperate between PvE and PvP rulesets, yes...but what about the <em>mechanism</em> behind proc effects?  That's what was changed, and that's a far more fundamental game mechanic than the simple effects on each CA.  They can tune each CA to be appropriate for PvP, but an across-the-board change in the rules for proc effects might be a greater difference than they want in their codebases.

[Zabumt]

<div></div><div>The "I use to one-shot greens" argument gets you nowhere.  Sure, my Wizard can one-shot greens... every 45 seconds.  After that, I have to use my much smaller single-target nukes AND risk getting into melee range with a mob.</div><div> </div><div>The argument of "It took me 20 seconds to solo a green!" is also arrogant.  Do you have any idea how long it takes my Templar to solo any con mob?</div><div> </div><div>A nearly 50 percent reduction of dps for Rangers almost seems right to me.  That would bring them back in line with other dps classes, including the proc nerfs.</div><div> </div><div>As far as duelling is concerned.  I remember a particular Ranger on unrest that would spam ooc with duel requests.  Why?  Because the Ranger, far and away, could kill anything and everything faster than anyone else.</div><div> </div><div>Look, I'm not a Ranger hater.  But, from all of the arguments I've seen it's usually... "I use to do more damage than anyone in the game!  Now that I have to change my fighting strategy and upgrade my melee weapons (because I use to use any weapon that procced well no matter what level it was) I'm broken!  I can't do more damage than a mage that can't parry and wears very light armor!"</div><div> </div><div>Bleh...</div><div> </div><div>On a sidenote, one of our guild rangers xped with us tonight and seemed to provide great dps in a group.</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Zabumtik on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:33 AM</span></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div> </div><div>... from all of the arguments I've seen it's usually... "I use to do more damage than anyone in the game! <hr></div></blockquote><p>no. you chose to read those ports, ignoring all the other posts, clearly stating 'i know i was overpowered'</p><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div>Now that I have to change my fighting strategy and upgrade my melee weapons (because I use to use any weapon that procced well no matter what level it was) I'm broken!<hr></div></blockquote><p>this statement shows you have no idea of the ranger class or how we play. upgrade melee weapons? first of all, we are a ranged class. secondly, even though we are ranged, i seldom see a ranger with greyed out melee weapons. as for changing strategy: to what? you can't change much if the damage is lower and all other stuff works still the same. which it doesn't, some works worse, like stun poison.</p><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div> </div><div>I can't do more damage than a mage that can't parry and wears light armor!</div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>yes, we have chain. watch us die while the mob is on us, killing us a bit slower then it would kill the cloth wearer. ah, but wait, the cloth wearer doesn't take damage? how is that with such light armor? ah, the mob is rooted...</p><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div> </div><div>A nearly 50 percent reduction of dps for Rangers almost seems right to me.  That would bring them back in line with other dps classes, including the proc nerfs.<hr></div></blockquote><p>perhaps now we are in line with the other T1 classes. that's great, cause now we too can hang out with the other T1 and enjoy how we get out-dps-ed by T2 and T3 classes...</p><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div> </div><div>Look, I'm not a Ranger hater.<hr></div></blockquote><p>your whole post shows you had anger against rangers before. so don't come along to the ranger board, talking crap and then, to top it all, throw out such a hypocritical phrase.</p><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div> </div><div>Do you have any idea how long it takes my Templar to solo any con mob?<hr></div></blockquote><p>no, i don't, as probably many here. and frankly, i don't give a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]. but we don't come over to the templar board, having no or only marginal knowledge of the class, and go out saying "dudes, stop whining, your heals are too overpowered, it's great SOE nerfs you".</p><p>so do us a favor and go talk for your own class, on the respective boards.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p><p>Message Edited by jarlaxle888 on <span class="date_text">02-24-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:55 PM</span></p>

[Tarryn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div></div><div>Do you have any idea how long it takes my Templar to solo any con mob?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I do.  My 59 templar alt solos very slowly--but that's ok, because she heals and buffs really dang well.</p><p>My ranger neither heals nor buffs.  He does nothing but damage, but now he doesn't even do that particularly well. </p><p>You are completely off base with your remarks in several ways.  Firstly, a more than 50% reduction in our damage output is NOWHERE NEAR RIGHT.  I've seen many, many parses of ranger damage--solo, group, and raid.  I've done a good number of them myself.  Ranger output <em>was </em>too high, but not by that much.  Most parses I've seen pre-LU20 put rangers averaging about 10%-20% higher than other T1 classes--not always, but fairly consistently.  It needed fixing, but as I've said before SOE swatted a fly with an elephant.</p><p>Secondly, our fighting strategy is largely as it was <em>supposed </em>to be--we were to be the masters of ranged combat, as was stated even back in beta.  If I wanted to melee, I'd play my EQ1 ranger--and that's not bloody likely.  We should not have to rely on our relatively feeble melee skills, nor on our uninteractive autoattack--again, if I wanted to sit back, turn on autoattack, and wait til the mob is dead, I'd play my EQ1 ranger.  This ain't EQ1, and it better not become so.</p><p>Thirdly, you say your guild ranger "seemed" to provide great dps.  Did you parse it, or does that seeming simply conform to your opinion?  Does that guild ranger feel that his DPS is what it should be?  If so, let him come here and say so.</p>

[BSbon]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tarryn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zabumtik wrote:<div></div><div>Do you have any idea how long it takes my Templar to solo any con mob?</div><hr></blockquote><p>Well, I do.  My 59 templar alt solos very slowly--but that's ok, because she heals and buffs really dang well.</p><p>My ranger neither heals nor buffs.  He does nothing but damage, but now he doesn't even do that particularly well. </p><p>You are completely off base with your remarks in several ways.  Firstly, a more than 50% reduction in our damage output is NOWHERE NEAR RIGHT.  I've seen many, many parses of ranger damage--solo, group, and raid.  I've done a good number of them myself.  Ranger output <em>was </em>too high, but not by that much.  Most parses I've seen pre-LU20 put rangers averaging about 10%-20% higher than other T1 classes--not always, but fairly consistently.  It needed fixing, but as I've said before SOE swatted a fly with an elephant.</p><p>Secondly, our fighting strategy is largely as it was <em>supposed </em>to be--we were to be the masters of ranged combat, as was stated even back in beta.  If I wanted to melee, I'd play my EQ1 ranger--and that's not bloody likely.  We should not have to rely on our relatively feeble melee skills, nor on our uninteractive autoattack--again, if I wanted to sit back, turn on autoattack, and wait til the mob is dead, I'd play my EQ1 ranger.  This ain't EQ1, and it better not become so.</p><p><strong>Thirdly, you say your guild ranger "seemed" to provide great dps.  Did you parse it, or does that seeming simply conform to your opinion?  Does that guild ranger feel that his DPS is what it should be?  If so, let him come here and say so.</strong></p><hr></blockquote><p>this statement is very interesting. there are more posts that i can count of people saying that DPS is awful and every post after it agrees without any parse information. now someone says that their ranger was doing good dps and someone asks for hard numbers. please everyone post parse information. it's the only way to make convincing arguments.</p><p>bongo </p>

[athitchcock]

<div></div><div>I just went through Sirlutt's numbers. I think there is a very important point to note. I counted out how many of the CAs he used were ranged only and how many were usable at point blank. I didn't count procs of any type (quick strike, poison, etc) or autoattack hits.</div><div> </div><div>Pre LU20</div><div>47 Melee CAs</div><div>246 Ranged CAs</div><div> </div><div>Post LU20</div><div>248 Melee CAs</div><div>67 Ranged CAs</div><div> </div><div>According to this, we're not Rangers anymore.</div><div> </div><div>Gnaril</div><div> </div><div>edit: Sirlutt, were these numbers taken while soloing or grouping? I'm not clear on that. If it was from soloing, as I assumed, then you were forced to melee, if not then I'm not sure why you were meleeing so much.</div><p>Message Edited by athitchcock on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:56 AM</span></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>athitchcock wrote:<div></div><div>I just went through Sirlutt's numbers. I think there is a very important point to note. I counted out how many of the CAs he used were ranged only and how many were usable at point blank. I didn't count procs of any type (quick strike, poison, etc) or autoattack hits.</div><div> </div><div>Pre LU20</div><div>47 Melee CAs</div><div>246 Ranged CAs</div><div> </div><div>Post LU20</div><div>248 Melee CAs</div><div>67 Ranged CAs</div><div> </div><div>According to this, we're not Rangers anymore.</div><div> </div><div>Gnaril</div><div> </div><div>edit: Sirlutt, were these numbers taken while soloing or grouping? I'm not clear on that. If it was from soloing, as I assumed, then you were forced to melee, if not then I'm not sure why you were meleeing so much.</div><p>Message Edited by athitchcock on <span class="date_text">02-25-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:56 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>not sure if he was solo. but i sure noticed i melee a lot more when solo. i did alright, was able to take mobs with no arrows around my level. but the fights were a lot longer, which boiled down to a melee fest, due to always waiting for cheap shot to refresh and sometimes not good places for long ranged pulls.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[Grimda]

<p>Parse from 53 ranger killing triple up harpies in group; average dps after 86 fights was 264dps and damage totals of 6.5k-8.5K.  Legendary poisons and all legendary gear and at least Adept I but many Adept III and Master spells also.  </p><p>I haven't played much since LU20.  Cast times felt very sluggish; not sure if they are actually nerfed our cast times too or zone was laggy.   I burned through only one poison in 86 fights near the end indicating I had proc'd just a little over 200 times.   Used about 20g worth of arrows.</p><p>I did consistently out dpsed our monk by about 500-1.5k/fight.  </p><p> </p><p> </p>