Just read update notes....

[StealthM0]

<div><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=260&jump=true">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stat&message.id=260&jump=true</a></div><div> </div><div>I just read the patch notes for lu20 and I noticed something....procs changed somewhat but not totally. Ca's will only proc once per use, but autoattack will still proc as often as it hits per chance to proc rolls (as it always did). Our poisons are not as nerfed as you think.</div><div> </div><div>I also notice for rangers specifically they actually fixed some things. But nowhere did I see anything about run speed in and out of combat being changed so kiting is still difficult.</div><div> </div><div>It seems many of the problems on test thank god were left on test and not brought to live.</div><div> </div><div>I am optimistic after reading the patch notes that we are better off then we were a week ago.</div>

[Bithnar]

<div>Nope these are what we are up in arms about.  You will no longer see procs having a chance to go off 3 times on a triple shot line CA or any other multipule shot CA.  That's whats killing our DPS and now us in solo fight as well I am afraid.</div><div> </div><div>Anyone know how this affects our Offensive stance lines?</div>

[StealthM0]

<div></div><div></div><div>Regarding triple shot ok that one ca is 1/3rd less proccing. But that's a minority far as ca's go. The ca itself does enough damage at adept 3, no need for poison to be proccin on all three hits to give you uber damage.</div><div> </div><div>Most of my procs comes from autoattack anyway, especially when soloing I dont get a chance to use Triple Fire except in the opener (Hidden Fire, Triple Fire, TF wont fire off cause enemy is at you already). What I found is best is Hidden Fire, Leg shot, debilitating arrow, cheap shot (if non heroic), then triple fire. The casting on it just takes too long to use it effectively solo. And ina  group situation I'd reccomend using either extreme DD/ v.low DoT, or vice versa, v.low DD/ extreme DoT.</div><div> </div><div>my only concern at this point is with the spring/pounce line and the other group ca's. If we are hitting the entire mob will it proc once per target, or on only one target?</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:11 AM</span></p>

[MoonglumHMV]

<div></div><p>Another thing to note on the procs (not being a naysayer here, just giving info <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> )  CA's will proc based on their cast time, not your bow speed.  And remember everything is based on a 3 sec 'balance' if you will for proc %.</p><p>And someone check my math!!  Note I chose a 10% proc rate because it's an easy number to work with <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>So if you have your auto attack with a 7 sec delay bow, and a 10% proc rate, you actually have 7/3 * 10 % chance to proc or a 23.3 % chance to proc.</p><p>On the other hand if you have a 1 sec cast time CA, and a 10% proc rate, you actually have a 1/3 * 10 % chance to proc or a 3.3% chance to proc.</p><p> </p>

[klepp]

<div></div>hey.. does the changes mean that quickshot will also only proc on the first attack?

[MaghodienStarund]

<div><blockquote><hr>StealthM0de wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Regarding triple shot ok that one ca is 1/3rd less proccing. But that's a minority far as ca's go. The ca itself does enough damage at adept 3, no need for poison to be proccin on all three hits to give you uber damage.</div><div> </div><div>Most of my procs comes from autoattack anyway, especially when soloing I dont get a chance to use Triple Fire except in the opener (Hidden Fire, Triple Fire, TF wont fire off cause enemy is at you already). What I found is best is Hidden Fire, Leg shot, debilitating arrow, cheap shot (if non heroic), then triple fire. The casting on it just takes too long to use it effectively solo. And ina  group situation I'd reccomend using either extreme DD/ v.low DoT, or vice versa, v.low DD/ extreme DoT.</div><div> </div><div>my only concern at this point is with the spring/pounce line and the other group ca's. If we are hitting the entire mob will it proc once per target, or on only one target?</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:11 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ok u are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if u think the CA dmg is only reduced by 1/3rd ... Ok lets look at the dmg at lvl 50 using Torrent of the Ages +347dd and Arrow Frenzy +315dmg per proc</div><div> </div><div>Triple Fire --1st hit 129-215+347 tota; +315af+347tota2nd hit 193-322+347 tota; +315af+347tota3rd hit 258-430+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>-----------------------------------------------------------</div><div>3894 max dmg and yes i almost always proc all of that</div><div> </div><div>New Version</div><div>Triple Fire--</div><div>1st hit 129-215+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>2nd hit 193-322</div><div>3rd hit 258-430</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>1976 max dmg</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>So we loose</div><div>+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>-1918 dmg</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Dunno maybe its just me but that seems alot... 50% off our most dmging CA.</div>

[leafnin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>klepp wrote:<div></div>hey.. does the changes mean that quickshot will also only proc on the first attack?<hr></blockquote><p>It will share the proc chances of the attack that intiated the proc roll.  So the way it looks right now I'd say yes that's correct.  However it doesn't mean they got it right the first time around.  (SoA and Melee weapons proccing on ranged were both 'fixed' twice)  </p><p> </p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p>

[leafnin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>MaghodienStarunder wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>StealthM0de wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Regarding triple shot ok that one ca is 1/3rd less proccing. But that's a minority far as ca's go. The ca itself does enough damage at adept 3, no need for poison to be proccin on all three hits to give you uber damage.</div><div> </div><div>Most of my procs comes from autoattack anyway, especially when soloing I dont get a chance to use Triple Fire except in the opener (Hidden Fire, Triple Fire, TF wont fire off cause enemy is at you already). What I found is best is Hidden Fire, Leg shot, debilitating arrow, cheap shot (if non heroic), then triple fire. The casting on it just takes too long to use it effectively solo. And ina  group situation I'd reccomend using either extreme DD/ v.low DoT, or vice versa, v.low DD/ extreme DoT.</div><div> </div><div>my only concern at this point is with the spring/pounce line and the other group ca's. If we are hitting the entire mob will it proc once per target, or on only one target?</div><p><span class="time_text"></span> </p><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:11 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Ok u are [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if u think the CA dmg is only reduced by 1/3rd ... Ok lets look at the dmg at lvl 50 using Torrent of the Ages +347dd and Arrow Frenzy +315dmg per proc</div><div> </div><div>Triple Fire --1st hit 129-215+347 tota; +315af+347tota2nd hit 193-322+347 tota; +315af+347tota3rd hit 258-430+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>-----------------------------------------------------------</div><div>3894 max dmg and yes i almost always proc all of that</div><div> </div><div>New Version</div><div>Triple Fire--</div><div>1st hit 129-215+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>2nd hit 193-322</div><div>3rd hit 258-430</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>1976 max dmg</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>So we loose</div><div>+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>+347 tota; +315af+347tota</div><div>---------------------------------------</div><div>-1918 dmg</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Dunno maybe its just me but that seems alot... 50% off our most dmging CA.</div><hr></blockquote>If you follow the formula provided by Moonfire and input the numbers for the delay of each CA and the delay of each proc (Poison-15%, Gleaming Strike-5%, and Archer's Frenzy-30%). You'll see we have around 50% of the listed proc percentage shaved off when using CAs. 

[Deml]

<div></div><p>They have never changed the proc formula for autoattack, it was CA proc chances that were being changed.  I still have a few questions that the patch notes do not answer:</p><p>1.  How does the change to procs only triggering on the 1st shot of a skill affect Stream of Arrows?  Is the entire duration of stream considered one CA or will each shot have a chance to proc for us?</p><p>2.  Have not seen anything official yet but the rumors are Debilitating arrow/Devitalizing arrow now can no longer be used on the move?  If this is correct, can we have an explanation maybe as to why?</p><p>3.  Does INT affect any of our other procs or has it been removed from them as it was from T7 poisons?</p>

[klepp]

<div></div>well thats nice, considering i just bought the masterI of archers frenzy.. so now i get a wopping 34 more damage once per CA if it decides to proc.... niiiiice

[Jayad]

<div>1.  It's unknown (at least by me) because each "SoA" is a "cast" now.  However, the proc chance will be very low because the cast time is so fast, even if it can proc.  If you have like a .25 second cast time or something, your chance of procing is below 3%, so on average you might proc once per stream, if it runs its full course.</div><div> </div><div>2. The explanation is, "We are SOE and we hate you"</div><div> </div><div>3. INT only affected poisons before.  STR affected the other procs (and all other CAs)  Because hit with poison so much, INT was important and now it won't be.</div><div> </div>

[RiverCitySnip]

<div></div><p><font color="#ccffff">Personally, while it is obvious that our DPS will be lowered, I don't believe it will be a nerf.  More-so, I believe that it will be a balance, putting us about equal to Wizards and Warlocks.  Obvious, before LU20, we completely dominated in dps, leaving mages in the dust.  I don't think this will hurt us as much as people think.  My real question is if this proc change will mean only one proc for Stream of Arrows... that would be a bummer, definately, but I'll manage.  I definately think that we were doing too much DPS... perhaps this won't be a nerf, but rather a balance.</font></p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>RiverCitySniper wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ccffff">Personally, while it is obvious that our DPS will be lowered, I don't believe it will be a nerf.  More-so, I believe that it will be a balance, putting us about equal to Wizards and Warlocks.  Obvious, before LU20, we completely dominated in dps, leaving mages in the dust.  I don't think this will hurt us as much as people think.  My real question is if this proc change will mean only one proc for Stream of Arrows... that would be a bummer, definately, but I'll manage.  I definately think that we were doing too much DPS... perhaps this won't be a nerf, but rather a balance.</font></p><hr></blockquote>I hate to disagree with you but if you have been reading any posts by the actual players of this game (as opposed to the ones that want your money) who have been putting in 80-100 hrs in Beta, Rangers are nerfed back to tier 3 DPS. That's a nerf. There is no talk of balance with Sorcs. We were overpowered and I have found only a few rangers who won't admit that. This will be a pummeling to our class though and I admonish anyone actually cheering for it.