kk old mechanics gone... analyze new mechanics needed,

[Niuan]

<div>Since old game mechinics are gone of long delay bow for max damage.  We need to figure out the best setup to maximise damage now.  I have a feeling that haste may be involved as CA proccs no longer que off long delay weops.  Short bow high damage with weopon haste may give us good results.  Need to run some tests.  Gut instict tells me high delay is still the better setup.</div><div> </div><div>Anyone have any parses on this stuff yet?</div>

[Fennir]

don't get a short bow, that will just screw you.remember, they didn't change the proc formula for autoattack, so our longbow is still going to proc exceptionally well on auto-attack ONLY.switch to high DoT poisons instead of DD poisons, and use your haste/DPS buffs often (i rarely clicked these pre-LU20).  they definitely affect bow damage.also, use the best arrows you can get your hands on.  cobalt isn't worth it unless you win your server's lottery so this basically means hope they fix summoned adamantine to be level 60 instead of 50.<div></div>

[Mimzel]

I fail to understand how switching to high dot poisons will help any, and not only be a waste of money? If by your logic, you'll get most procs from auto-attack, unless you proc about every 25 seconds (the duration of the poison proc), the new poison proc will override the one that is already running on its 25 second duration. This means that you will be wasting alot of money on poison effects which you only will be utilizing maybe 20% of its full potential of (non-factual number).If you proc your poison maybe once every 10 seconds, it would still be better to use a high DD poison instead of a high dot poison as far as I can see. Or am I missing something here? I havent been in beta for KOS or had the opertunity to test the changes on the live servers yet.<div></div>

[Sulas]

<span><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div>Since old game mechinics are gone of long delay bow for max damage.  We need to figure out the best setup to maximise damage now.  I have a feeling that haste may be involved as CA proccs no longer que off long delay weops.  Short bow high damage with weopon haste may give us good results.  Need to run some tests.  Gut instict tells me high delay is still the better setup.</div><div> </div><div>Anyone have any parses on this stuff yet?</div><hr></blockquote>Careful there Niuan,What you're talking about doing sounds an awful lot like 'exploiting a bug' to me.JK of course.  I still need some time to get the bleachy taste outta my mouth.</span><div></div>

[StealthM0]

<div>Regarding arrow types if your on bayle seek out sledgehammer, he makes my rare arrows, ebon 5g/stack, cobalt 10g/stack. Coin is not a problem cause I know how to make money in the game. Sitting on 6 stacks of cobalt and 8 stacks of ebon now for fridays raid in MG to start the to speak as a dragon quest (oh yes darathur is going down).</div>

[Fennir]

Considering how drastic the reduction in our proc rates is going to be, I will no longer be able to rely on multiple procs on every fight depending on the situation.  If I can't rely on multiple DD procs, I would much rather rely on the constant flow of dmg from the DoT.Obviously testing and parsing will point to the correct choice for each situation, but until I have those numbers, I'm ready to go with both types of poison and expect to get more use out of high DoT than I ever did before.<div></div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>StealthM0de wrote:<div>Regarding arrow types if your on bayle seek out sledgehammer, he makes my rare arrows, ebon 5g/stack, cobalt 10g/stack. Coin is not a problem cause I know how to make money in the game. Sitting on 6 stacks of cobalt and 8 stacks of ebon now for fridays raid in MG to start the to speak as a dragon quest (oh yes darathur is going down).</div><hr></blockquote>No offense but 6 stacks of arrows is like 30 minutes of fighting for me.  I wish I could afford 1p an hour for arrows.</span></div>

[Mimzel]

We wont see a poison proc 3 times in a split second any more - but its a long way from that to once every 25 seconds... I've not read or heard anything that would indicate procs happening that seldom. Have you? A low dd, high dot poison would go to waste if it kept overriding itself. It would still be better to use high DD, low dot poisons unless the procrate has been THAT nerfed. And I dont think/hope it has.<div></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:don't get a short bow, that will just screw you.remember, they didn't change the proc formula for autoattack, so our longbow is still going to proc exceptionally well on auto-attack ONLY.switch to high DoT poisons instead of DD poisons, and use your haste/DPS buffs often (i rarely clicked these pre-LU20).  they definitely affect bow damage.also, use the best arrows you can get your hands on.  cobalt isn't worth it unless you win your server's lottery so this basically means hope they fix summoned adamantine to be level 60 instead of 50.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I may have read my data wrong but I though an update changed arrows that made all arrows do the same amount of damage wether they were tin arrors or cobalt.  Can anyone verify this?

[Fennir]

You seem concerned with poison procs going to waste.  I'm more concerned with lost damage.  I don't mind paying the extra gold for the damage if thats what it takes.  We will never go through poisons as fast in the future as we did before, so our poison costs are already only going to go down.I don't mind if the poison overrides itself sometimes.  It will hopefully always be ticking.  I honestly don't expect the DD to proc often enough to produce the same damage the constantly ticking DoT will.  We'll see.<div></div>

[Fennir]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div>I may have read my data wrong but I though an update changed arrows that made all arrows do the same amount of damage wether they were tin arrors or cobalt.  Can anyone verify this?</div><hr></blockquote>All arrows do the same <b>CA</b> damage.  Autoattack is <b>definitely </b>affected by arrow tier.</span></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><p>another factor... check out this theory... </p><p>1.  Low delay bow</p><p>2.  High Dot Poison</p><p>The low delay bow will make it so poison won't proc nearly as often off of autoattack  thus overwriting the high DoT poison</p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div>I may have read my data wrong but I though an update changed arrows that made all arrows do the same amount of damage wether they were tin arrors or cobalt.  Can anyone verify this?</div><hr></blockquote>All arrows do the same <b>CA</b> damage.  Autoattack is <b>definitely </b>affected by arrow tier.</span></div><hr></blockquote>Very good to know thanks Fennir!

[Fennir]

<div></div>But that would also mean our offensive stance proc and other stuff would also have their proc chance cut in half. =/You would also lose out on 10m of ranged attack time while soloing, which could work out to be an extra CA.edit: plz call me tobias, i have this stupid name cuz i bought EQ2 from some guy who quit the game the first week.  i dont even know what fennir means =(<div></div><p>Message Edited by Fennir on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:20 PM</span></p>

[Mimzel]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:You seem concerned with poison procs going to waste.  I'm more concerned with lost damage.  I don't mind paying the extra gold for the damage if thats what it takes.  We will never go through poisons as fast in the future as we did before, so our poison costs are already only going to go down.I don't mind if the poison overrides itself sometimes.  It will hopefully always be ticking.  I honestly don't expect the DD to proc often enough to produce the same damage the constantly ticking DoT will.  We'll see.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Im of course more concerned with dps as well. What im trying to relay is my thoughts about what will be better to boost dps - a high dot or a high DD poison. It all depends on how often we can expect to proc (and this in itself is dependant on many things, like weapon, buffs etc). If I can expect to proc once every 5 seconds, a DD poison will guaranteed be better to use, since the dot will tick once every 5 seconds. However, if its more like a proc every 10 seconds, then the dot poison will have ticked 2 times, and I guess 2 ticks of a high dot poison is better than 1 DD poison? Its all statistics, really, and Im sure we will ge given ample time to study alot of the parses that will be presented on these boards in the time to come.So yes, Im concerned with wasting DPS potential now that we are walking a finer line.</span><div></div>

[Fennir]

Yeah, I definitely agree.  It will come down to whether or not we proc poison faster than every 6 seconds.I'm freaking anxious to get outta work lol<div></div>

[leafnin]

<div></div><div></div><p>If you solo you might need to take into account that you will need to go melee at some point unless snares are working fine.  A poison proc is harder in melee then at ranged.  If all I did was autoattack then yeah a high intial DD would be needed.  I'm willing to take a bet that I'll still be using alot of CA's which would possibly make better use of a low DD, high DOT type.  Just a thought <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  It all depends on how much autoattacking you'll be doing.</p><p> </p><p>As for tweaking damage I still say:</p><p>Max STR, Max Haste, one vial of each type of poison High DD or High DOT to test which works better for you. </p><p>Just my Opinion (JMO)</p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by leafnin on <span class="date_text">02-21-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:33 AM</span></p>

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Yeah, I definitely agree.  It will come down to whether or not we proc poison faster than every 6 seconds.I'm freaking anxious to get outta work lol<div></div><hr></blockquote>A slightly more accurate way of putting it is whether our procs last longer than 6 seconds.  Overwrites are only half the equation; the other is if the mob dies or is cured before the poison runs its full course.I'll probably try a short bow out.  A steadier damage stream has a certain appeal.  I like the longbow look a lot more though.  EQ2 short bows look like cheap plastic toys to me.One adjustment I'll have to make to my playstyle is to make sure I leave brief pauses between one CA and another, to give autoattacks a chance to go off.  I do that to an extent already, but it'll be a lot more important now.</span><div></div>