We *are* a DPS class - and we will FIGHT!!

[Jay]

<div>The changes coming in LU 20 look really bad. We know some form of them will go in to correct our damage and balance us out with the other classes. At least, that's the intention.</div><div> </div><div>Now, we know how SOE develops software (with a sledgehammer) so we know we're probably going to get kicked back to the old days of T2 or T3 DPS. Don't get me wrong, I really, really hope our damage is still decent and we really are comparable to sorcs and assassins. But I fear this is just the pendulum swinging BACK toward 'Ineffective' and away from 'Holy Crap!' where we've been since LU13. These changes will likely have unintended consequences and affect us more severely than SOE wants.</div><div> </div><div>So what do we do? We fight. We are a DPS class and we will not give up our damage. We don't walk away in droves, scream at the Devs, hate on other classes and each other. We stick together, we stay focused, we fight HARD. Our community has been a very cohesive group for a while now, and while things have been more tumultuous here for the last several months, you cannot deny that this is an active community with some very passionate people. Even those who I've argued with directly, I recognize that we have one thing in common: that we care passionately about the ranger class.</div><div> </div><div>I realize people are going to vent for a while - go for it. Commiseration and sympathy will be in ample supply, and I've special ordered a LOT of extra ale for the coming months. But get the venting out of your system and if you care about this class, get ready to buckle down. Maybe I'm just sensing the winds of change blowing at hurricane force and this is all an overreaction (before the point of seeing them live no less) but maybe not. I think we'll end up doing less damage than SOE intends, and I think they're going to need our help to restore us to Tier 1, alongside sorcerors.</div><div> </div><div>Don't misunderstand me: the DPS that we've known since LU13 is history. It's gone. R.I.P, Super Rangers - it was fun while it lasted, c'est la vie. I'm fine with that, I'll get over it and move on. What I am NOT fine with is having the primary purpose of my class - ranged DPS - be scuttled to the point of mediocrity. DPS is not everything in this game, but it's our main role - and SOE does not want to change that.</div><div> </div><div>So don't wake up on the first day of LU20 and fear that you're confronting the future of your class. We may get hit hard, but we've always been a tenacious, persistant bunch. We can overcome this too, if we forego the infighting and hatred. Don't fall into that, it will only hurt us all in the long run.</div><div> </div><div>I hope enough of us stick this out, and work together to make it through the long haul. I'm going to do my best to endure. I hope you will too.</div><div> </div>

[theorbell]

<div></div>Thanks Jay, I know most of the community is with you, though we may not be easy to hear at times.

[BtilTheMage]

<div></div><font color="#cc0033">While I'll be the first to admit Ranger damage was too high, the nerf is much more severe then it needed to be.  Only thing I can recommend is to post like mad wherever you can.  Even though it doesn't seem to work for Sorcerers, it couldn't hurt.  Maybe you guys could hop in the next t1 damage thread with the Wizards/Warlocks if the patch goes through.</font>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#cc0033">While I'll be the first to admit Ranger damage was too high, the nerf is much more severe then it needed to be.  </font></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I don't think you'll find anyone here that will disagree with you there.</p><p>Right now, we know some things about these changes, and we can already start brainstorming to figure out how we'll hit the ground running come LU 20. This will definitely change our decisions about poisons, for instance.  We've got some people who are very good with analysis and the whole 'math' thing (I'm not one of 'em), so I'm very interested to see what else we can come up with as a community.</p>

[AfflictedOne]

Well as for poisons.  You basically go back to the pre combat revamp thoughts.   You look for a high dot poison.  Which is really what melee classes should have been using atm since they will do more damage over time with it.  The higher dot poisons actually do more damage per proc, it just takes more time to do it.  If you proc less you have more time to see the full effect of the ticks.This does look like it's gonna seriously hamper the ranger solo ability tho unless other changes are put in.  Like ranged arts being cast on the move again or some better damage melee attacks.<div></div>

[Laia]

Thanks, Kaeros.  We'll get through this one.I was a Ranger in EQ1.  If I lived through that, and thrived, I can certainly handle this.<div></div>

[Gumbercules]

This is going to be a hard hitter but we should be able to overcome it all.we have been in hard times before and so have other class. we are not to damaged as some other classes are/werewe will just have to watch how things go.Stay safe have Fun

[taeda]

<div></div><div>Kaeros,</div><div> </div><div> I may not be on your server, but if I was I would buy you an ale.  Heck, I would buy you 100 ales!  This post was the most constructive and hopeful post I have seen on the subject of the upcoming changes and for that... thank you.  If there is anything I can do to help with finding solutions or keeping up Ranger Morale, anyone can find me on the Antonia Bayle Server under the name Liriav. I love being a ranger and I know we will get through the rough stuff and have some fun.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> Liriav</div><div> Ayr'Dal Ranger, Full Time Cookie Monster</div><div> Fellowship of the Dragon</div><div> Antonia Bayle Server</div>

[KdB]

<div>Re: We *are* a DPS class - and we will FIGHT!!</div><div> </div><div>Been there, done that. The warlocks in beta, before LU13, were deluging the devs with complaints about the nerfing of their damage and change of primary role.</div><div> </div><div>Didn't make any difference at all. If Sony decides to nerf an overpowered class, they hit hard and don't ever change their minds. </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Cron]

As always Kae, I'll be there to fight with ya. You've been an inspiration to many Rangers here and I don't think it will be to hard for you to rally them to this cause. I wish I had 1/10 your communication skills and your patience. Fight on Brother!

[Skratttt]

<div></div><p>Im with my predator bretheren on this one....</p><p>I dont want to have my goody good brothers bring bad name to the predator familly!!</p><p>PROC BALANCE= GOOD, BUT NERFAGE WITHOUT COMPENSATION= EXTREEMELY BAD</p>

[Jayad]

<div></div><p>lol pretty funny.  Uh we already cast our CAs as fast as possible, do you really think some high DOT poison is going to help?  I would be very surprised if your DOT poison procs once on a typical single heroic mob after this change.  There's no 'strategy' to figure out - we're dead as a real dps class.  Wouldn't surprise me at all if the swashy/brigands do more than we do after this change, so roll one of them and get a lot more utility with the same dps.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[Goozman]

<div>Pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they are trying to balance ranger dmg with poisons to sorcerer damage. Rangers dont really do anything but damage, whereas sorcerers (and I play a wiz) get several buffs that increase the damage of the group. If after this nonsense, rangers using legendary poisons are doing the same damage as wizards or warlocks, than they really f'ed up</div><div> </div><div>They should just lower the damage on poisons, and give casters potions that add crap to offensive spells (they can do that now)</div>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><p>I do think you guys are getting hit kinda hard.</p><p>Perhaps you could join the Sorcerors in getting what needs to be done accomplished. With the combined voices of Rangers and Sorcerors that should be alot of people.</p>

[Poochymama]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Goozman wrote:<div>Pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they are trying to balance ranger dmg with poisons to sorcerer damage. Rangers dont really do anything but damage, whereas sorcerers (and I play a wiz) get several buffs that increase the damage of the group. If after this nonsense, rangers using legendary poisons are doing the same damage as wizards or warlocks, than they really f'ed up</div><div> </div><div>They should just lower the damage on poisons, and give casters potions that add crap to offensive spells (they can do that now)</div><hr></blockquote>According to the Devs Ranger DPS is supposed to be = with Sorceror DMG not greater than.

[Goozman]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Poochymama p wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Goozman wrote:<div>Pretty [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] if they are trying to balance ranger dmg with poisons to sorcerer damage. Rangers dont really do anything but damage, whereas sorcerers (and I play a wiz) get several buffs that increase the damage of the group. If after this nonsense, rangers using legendary poisons are doing the same damage as wizards or warlocks, than they really f'ed up</div><div> </div><div>They should just lower the damage on poisons, and give casters potions that add crap to offensive spells (they can do that now)</div><hr></blockquote>According to the Devs Ranger DPS is supposed to be = with Sorceror DMG not greater than.<hr></blockquote><p>Based off what though... do rangers have to buy [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] to be able to match the damage of mages who stand back and press buttons? That's unfair... poisons should be somewhat of a bonus; especially to a class which offers relatively nothing but damage.</p><p>Right now, if a ranger uses no poison, they are far under sorcerer damage... and it's much worse on multimob encounters.</p><p>Message Edited by Goozman on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:11 PM</span></p>

[TrigunVash]

<div></div><div>Well, nothing much we can do but sit and watch what happens. i calculated about a 30-40% dps decrease from what we are at now, were not like wizard classes and such, we got no group buffs, not really any great debuffs. We are basically nothing but ranged dps, its what we thrive for. Not like we dont pay through the nose unlike any other class for spells, poisons and arrows.o well, high maintinece T6 dps class with no group buffs FTW</div><p>Message Edited by TrigunVash on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:34 PM</span></p>

[KannaWhoopass]

<div></div><div></div><div>Im gonna say it</div><div> </div><div>I TOLD YOU SO .......</div><div> </div><div>a few weeks ago while they were in nerf ranger part 1 and SOA was hit ..and the poison proc off one hand and the hand held weapons not procing thru bow shots.</div><div> </div><div>i remember people say ohhh no you are so wrong ..the whining mages wond affect our class .. we are he happy dev loving bunch who get change thru calm constructive communication . BS</div><div> </div><div>well here it is ...we suck . mages got nothing ..we got nefed. ..while mages came into the forums and posted falsly that they were rangers and made exagerated claims on doing 3000 dps ..and how they felt they should be nerfed ..ya said nothing ..while wizards came in here posting that they are sooo hard done by and couldnt get it thru their heads that parsers only show'd a portion of their dps contributions ..we said ohhh we agree we need a nerf to our dps cause parsers show our dps mixed in with the buffs from the group .. ooohhh we are sooo op.</div><div> </div><div>when wizards and rangers could solo the same mobs ..and would die to the same mobs ...yeah we needed fixing! BS</div><div> </div><div>Picture it in yer mind now .. you are out soloing, beside you stands a wizard you are both hunting ^^ blue or white mobs.</div><div> </div><div>the wiz beside you leads of with his root spell .. you lead off with culling the weak ..or stealth attack ..no poison procs ..the mob is runing at you .</div><div>the wiz hammers the mob with a dot or ice commet ..mob is still rooted.</div><div> </div><div>you fire off a quick double shot ..poison doesnt proc (can't get stun to land) .</div><div> </div><div>wiz casts another root to keep mob pined, the mob is at you you stun it and try to back away ..quick shot is used up ..try tripple shot ..stun over mob is on you ..cant get off triple shot ..time for hand to hand ..... swing 60 points swing 90 points .. trying to get a stun poison to proc off of yer one hand ,swing, swing . mob is still at 70%</div><div> </div><div>wiz lands a bomb on the mob his is at 20% and breaks the root starts in on the wizard the wiz takes a hit (perhaps the mob rooted itself hiting the wiz?)</div><div>but if no wiz casts a root and backs away.</div><div> </div><div>ranger swing swing mob at 60% ranger taking damage from mob ..ranger stuned 4 seconds ....stifled ......ranger health down to 50% trying to get away from mob. cheap shot is back stun the mob back up use quick shot  and pray to god you can proc a poison this time .....cause if you dont ....you are dead! </div><div> </div><div>wizard lands his last nuke on the mob ...waits a second for power ...starts in on the second ....</div><div> </div><div>ranger is runing backwards in circles firing a shot every 5 -7 seconds praying for a stun proc to land so he can use triple shot  or try to get lucky with a few SOA and hope he can keep the stun going .........</div><div> </div><div>this is why the ranger paid 6G for the poison ...this is why he is in T1 dps list ..so he can run in circles backward firing debilitating arrow when it refreshes ..and on auto attack .....hoping for that 25% chance every 7 seconds to proc his poison .</div><div> </div><div>You cant get your stun poison to proc ..  you are stuck in hand to hand on auto attack cause ya only have 2 attacks for non stealth non positional meele. You are fighting as well as a brigand or swashie 12 levels or more lower than you. ...at this point a furry can out dps you.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>This is your future ...........</div><p>Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:07 PM</span></p><p>Message Edited by KannaWhoopass on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:14 PM</span></p>

[KnightOfTheWo]

Kanna...I think I might see your point here...but what exactly is your solution? I seem to be missing it...<div></div>

[KannaWhoopass]

<div></div><p>Simple leave our procs alone!!!!!!</p><p>adjust poison dps chnage affencive stance ...do whatever you want but leave proc% alone.</p><p>It is how rangers compensate for not having a root.</p><p> </p><p>We pay gold to BUY a root capacity so we can solo ..simple as that ..if i cant root a mob with the same reliability as a wizard im broken ..more so than a wiz i need to keep a mob off me ... When a wiz is being hit he has access to all of his DPS at any range. when im stuck in hand to hand im toast ...i have died to green ^^ mobs in SC when my stun poison drops and im not ready. i have 10 levels on those things .. and i cant toe to toe fight one.</p><p>a wizard would nuke the thing to ashes before he died toe to toe.</p><p>I would say this nerf would be the same as saying to a wizard ... your root spell is now a 75% fizzle. but its worse cause how often do you think ill land a stun off hand to hand to give me a chance to back up ... and use any of my attacks ...as it is now cheap shot is over soooo fast i cant get off tripple shot with it.</p><p>Poison = lifeblood of a Ranger ......nerf procs = Offenceive stance nerf = Poison nerf = Gleaming strike nerf all in one ......combine that with the no proc of hand weapons thru bow and poison procs off 1 hand ......BS Nerf sooo over the top i told my guild i may not be here for expansion.</p><p>I have Raid attendance of 90% over the past 4 months .....If you can upset a guy like me enough to leave the game .. SOE dont buy the new server hardware ya wont need it.</p><p>The proc rate was needed for rangers ...25% chance to land poison so what on tripple shot we had a 75% chance to stun.. If they turned thorny trap into an unbreakable 10 second root ..perhaps that would compensate ....but i doubt it. </p><p> </p>

[Axor]

<div></div><p>Guys i really hope u have better luck than us guardians :smileysad:</p><p>We were like you are now pre lu13, where the tank was guardian no matter of what. They nerfed us and things coming are even worse. Our aa's are mostly for DPS since most of guardians dont raid and then they need some dps to be able to solo low lvl quests. shame.</p><p>Honestly i did a ranger and i had load of fun while that lasted, got him to 54 and was going to be my main. Now with that coming i guess i will stick to my 60 nerfed toon, sigh.</p><p>I really hope to you the best of lucks trying to mitigate that nerf, but from the guardian experience im not very optimist.</p><p>We been trying to get posts from devs on guardian forums over months and i think last post we saw was a joke from blackguard on an offtopic post. Nothing else been posted since the famous : "Guardians are the unsung heroes of this game, they have the best skills to protect group members of being damaged". By moorgard.</p><p>Really, good luck :smileysad:</p>

[Hubo]

<div></div>I agree with Jay (Kaeros)....pull up your hoods (if we get some), restring your bows and be prepared for a siege. We'll get though this.

[Keredh]

<div></div><p>Jay,</p><p>I am generally most supportive of where you are coming from on these issues and I will, despite my more melancholic "get it out of the system" post elsewhere, stick with the class I've always loved in RPG/MMORPG.</p><p>I wonder though. EQ2 changes the role of a ranger significantly from its other incarnations elsewhere and damage - whilst not everything in the game - is our primary utility, indeed our only real utility, at the high end of the game.</p><p>Our combat arts alone should not place us at the top of the t1 tree. Period. However, that isn't the mechanic of the ranger in this game. Our damage is done by poisons (something it took me a long time to get comfortable with).</p><p>I took a quick look at the utility a wizard brings to a group beyond their apparent role as the top DPS: roots, bind sight on allies, cure arcane on allies, dispel magic on allies, see invis for allies, stifling, power and damage procs on allies, augmentations for power, strength and intelligence for the group, evac and power feeding. Don't get me wrong. I have no problem with any of those abilities, many of which have kept me alive. But to have that ability and complain that they are not the top of tree with DPS in all circumstances (find me a ranger who tops another tier one class on combat arts alone) strikes me as plain wrong. And for SOE not to recognise the imbalance in the classes as a whole, with our lack of utility, is also poor judgement.</p><p>What utility do we bring? We have no group sneak. We have evac - as do sorcerers. We have pathfinding. But I have not been in a zone requiring a run-speed buff where the other members have needed it for months - they have carpets and horses that are faster. We have tracking - but most folk navigate faster with EQmap. The only utility we brought, at substantial cost to ourselves, was damage. Let's be honest. How many of us regularly use more than two concentration slots?</p><p>I agree we will need a fix. I simply wish they hadn't "fixed" us in this manner in the first place. This was a very lazy way of addressing concerns.</p><p>As I said at the beginning, of course I will stick with the class. I am not as convinced, however, that they will intend to "fix" us in the future.</p><p>Best of luck all.</p><p>Ker</p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>KannaWhoopass wrote:<div></div><div></div><div>Im gonna say it</div><div> </div><div>I TOLD YOU SO .......</div><div> </div><div>a few weeks ago while they were in nerf ranger part 1 and SOA was hit ..and the poison proc off one hand and the hand held weapons not procing thru bow shots.</div><div> </div><div>i remember people say ohhh no you are so wrong ..the whining mages wond affect our class .. we are he happy dev loving bunch who get change thru calm constructive communication . BS</div><div> </div><div>well here it is ...we suck . mages got nothing ..we got nefed. ..while mages came into the forums and posted falsly that they were rangers and made exagerated claims on doing 3000 dps ..and how they felt they should be nerfed</div><hr></blockquote>And through all of our talk you missed the point. I remember nobody saying the mages whining wouldn't lead to a nerf. The only thing I remember is a core group of people saying "stop getting worked up. We have been down this road before and we got through it through calm discussion". I understand the need to vent. However, an arguement was never won with anger or who could swear the most. You have two choices here if you wish to work towards change. You can continue being a victim and have an "oh woe is me attitude" or you can be a fighter an actively work to get see change.Which one you want to be Whoop? A victim or a fighter? Wait for the change. Do your research. Get your numbers and FACTS. Post them to the forum. PM them to Blackguard and ask him to forward it on. Use /feedback. However, the moment you say "we suck. The devs suck. The game sucks" you might as well stop posting because the devs stop listening.As to your point, this is why I try not to brag of any success I had in the game. To many people see it, don't understand or don't care, but want it for their class and start beating others down.

[Xtr]

You were completely overpowered and you all know it.Welcome to where you should have been a year ago.<div></div>

[Taubin]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>XtreX wrote:You were completely overpowered and you all know it.Welcome to where you should have been a year ago.<div></div><hr></blockquote><img src="http://www.thefallenlegion.org/taubin.jpg">Please go be a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] somewhere else</span></div>

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>I'm with ya jay.  I'm not going anywhere and will help in any way possible.

[coltla]

I'm patching for Beta now, I'll check out the changes, if they are like we've been told I'm gonna write the longest "/feedback" ever.

[Memory]

<span><blockquote><hr>coltlane wrote:I'm patching for Beta now, I'll check out the changes, if they are like we've been told I'm gonna write the longest "/feedback" ever.<hr></blockquote>give me a /tell Aegyen when ya there <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> ill parse you <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />Im so with ya Jay. We Roll together, we Die together - Rangers for Life ! <span>:smileywink:</span></span><div></div>

[Tobann]

Well just wanted to put in my 2 copper worth. From having been through this with a Guardian already it seems the tendency,in my opinion, is to equalize all classes. I dont agree with this,but Im not a developer. It seems the development team doesnt want any class to stand out. The posted messages all say there shouldnt be a "best" of anything. My opinion is the opposite. I feel there should be a best DPS class for instance. Whichever class that is it should be a specilist in DPS. As an offset that class should also have less overall utility.So if Class X can produce the most DPS they will also have to least amount of group buffs, protects etc. In that way players can decide if they want to be a specilist in one area or be more versatile. I think both would be desirable for groups and no one would be unhappy. As it is trying to make all tank classes "equal" and Tier 1 DPS equal is going to be an effort in futility,in my opinion.Buaf  53 Ranger<div></div>

[coltla]

<blockquote><hr>XtreX wrote:You were completely overpowered and you all know it.Welcome to where you should have been a year ago.<div></div><hr></blockquote>You don't get it. WE WERE HERE A YEAR AGO! Then we got fixed. Now we're being taken BACK!<p>Message Edited by coltlane on <span class="date_text">02-16-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:58 AM</span></p>

[Morgonn]

<span>|We *are* a DPS class - and we will FIGHT!!|We WERE a DPS class.</span><div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><hr>If 55% of Ranger damage is based on procs, there's more that needs to be fixed.<div></div><p><font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder</font><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=stationplayers&message.id=19673#M19673"><font size="1" color="#000000">Beware the $label.get($MinFac)</font></a></p><hr><p> </p><p>It's official we are screwed.  If they can go ahead and make changes like these without having a clue on where a Rangers damage comes from we are just plain doomed.  How can anyone expect them to fix a class if they don't even know what the class does.</p><p> </p>

[Teksun]

I will really have no comment until after my first raid (2/24/06)...<div></div>

[roblinb]

<div></div>So what are they going to do?  Lower our damage CA's? All I saw was something about Shadow (which I've never used, just regular stealth), how Trick shots hate gain doesn't increase (who cares), but nothing major that targets our class specifically.  I know they are nerfing procs, but that targets more classes than just us.  Is there something else that I haven't heard about?

[Tes Mar'a]

<span></span><span><blockquote><hr>roblinb wrote:<div></div>I know they are nerfing procs, but that targets more classes than just us.  Is there something else that I haven't heard about?<hr></blockquote></span>The problem is that, (as one poited out and blacguard did not know), 55% of the damage we gives are from proc.so it hits us realy hard.<div></div>

[Tlaloc]

<div>Hello all,</div><div> </div><div>It's very good to see that most of the ranger community is taking these changes in stride, meaning they will gather data and are willing to present it in a meaningful manner to the powers that be.  On the other hand all you doom sayers need to calm down wait to see what happens and work with your community to get reasonable compensations made.  Face it, and this holds true for assassins as well most of us took advantage of the way proc's work to maximize damage and this was not the intention.  I mean I talked to an assassin that used a  slower one handed slash and a proc shield to maximize his damage...  From an RP perspective I just can't imagine an assassin with a sword and shield....  What this proc change will most like bring to light is ranger combat arts are not up to par and will need to be addressed and this will not happen right away, but rest assured if you provide realistic data in a professional manner it will get addressed.  However, if you whine like little spoiled school girls you will most likely be ignored and dismissed as whiners.  I personally commend the OP in trying to rally the community is a positive way and wish you all the success in finding the balance to fit your class.  I believe we will all make it tough these changes and eventually be better for it.  In the end, play your class because you enjoy to play the class not because you will do uber l33tness DPS and everyone will love and envy you.  I have played an assassin since launch I enjoy the class and skill it takes to play it and I have never been so concerned about my DPS and I think people group with me not because of a DPS % I bring to the group but because I play my class well, have a decent sense of humor, and I give the MT lapdances.  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Lathu</div><div> </div><div>54 Assassin - Befallen</div>

[Prandtl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tlalocnj wrote:<div>Hello all,</div><div> </div><div>It's very good to see that most of the ranger community is taking these changes in stride, meaning they will gather data and are willing to present it in a meaningful manner to the powers that be.  On the other hand all you doom sayers need to calm down wait to see what happens and work with your community to get reasonable compensations made.  Face it, and this holds true for assassins as well most of us took advantage of the way proc's work to maximize damage and this was not the intention.  I mean I talked to an assassin that used a  slower one handed slash and a proc shield to maximize his damage...  From an RP perspective I just can't imagine an assassin with a sword and shield....  What this proc change will most like bring to light is ranger combat arts are not up to par and will need to be addressed and this will not happen right away, but rest assured if you provide realistic data in a professional manner it will get addressed.  However, if you whine like little spoiled school girls you will most likely be ignored and dismissed as whiners.  I personally commend the OP in trying to rally the community is a positive way and wish you all the success in finding the balance to fit your class.  I believe we will all make it tough these changes and eventually be better for it.  In the end, play your class because you enjoy to play the class not because you will do uber l33tness DPS and everyone will love and envy you.  I have played an assassin since launch I enjoy the class and skill it takes to play it and I have never been so concerned about my DPS and I think people group with me not because of a DPS % I bring to the group but because I play my class well, have a decent sense of humor, and<strong><font color="#ff0000"> I give the MT lapdances.</font></strong>  <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Lathu</div><div> </div><div>54 Assassin - Befallen</div><hr></blockquote>I tried that once, but our MT is a gnome.  Poor girl looked like a pancake afterwords

[TaleraRis]

<div>You know I'm with you, Kae. I'm waiting to see the state of rangers after all this fuss, and if we're lower than we should be, then we'll let the devs know it in a calm and constructive manner.</div>

[EQarigon]

<div>Some funny stuff.  Why dont you all wait and see how the change effects you before getting all angry it may not be as bad as you think.  Im sure they understand the Ranger class after all they did create it <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  To say you guys wasnt overpowered would be a understatement.  I can barely get off two spells before the mob is dead.  I think there was to much dps in the game and hope they touch base on a few other classes as well. </div>

[Bithnar]

<div>I would agree with you EQarigon except for the following quote:</div><div> </div><div>"If 55% of Ranger damage is based on procs, there's more that needs to be fixed."<font color="#999999">Ryan "Blackguard" Shwayder</font></div><p>Sounds like they dont understand the class to me if they didnt realize this.</p><div></div>

[Mirdo]

Aye, that quote from a Dev is very telling. How can changes like these be made when the scope of its effect on the target class is not understood - let alone how much it will affect other classes it touches.And you know this won't be tested properly in the rush to get it out for next week.Mirdo.<div></div>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Mirdo wrote:Aye, that quote from a Dev is very telling. How can changes like these be made when the scope of its effect on the target class is not understood - let alone how much it will affect other classes it touches.And you know this won't be tested properly in the rush to get it out for next week.Mirdo.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I agree with everything you just said except that Blackguard is not a dev. He's the community manager. He's the PR guy.

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tobann wrote:Well just wanted to put in my 2 copper worth. From having been through this with a Guardian already it seems the tendency,in my opinion, is to equalize all classes. I dont agree with this,but Im not a developer. It seems the development team doesnt want any class to stand out. The posted messages all say there shouldnt be a "best" of anything. My opinion is the opposite. I feel there should be a best DPS class for instance. <font size="4" color="#ffff00">Whichever class that is it should be a specilist in DPS. As an offset that class should also have less overall utility.So if Class X can produce the most DPS they will also have to least amount of group buffs, protects etc.</font> In that way players can decide if they want to be a specilist in one area or be more versatile. I think both would be desirable for groups and no one would be unhappy. As it is trying to make all tank classes "equal" and Tier 1 DPS equal is going to be an effort in futility,in my opinion.Buaf  53 Ranger<div></div><hr></blockquote><font color="#ffff00">I hope you realize this is kinda how how things are RIGHT NOW. Tomorrow it looks like that will change.</font>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<div>I am with you Jay...I started my Ranger to escape the broken Guardian(I still play him cause I enjoy the Tank role).  The Guardian Forums where more a yelling and finger point fest that drove away anyone that entered them. </div><div>Maybe feedback with Data will assist the Rangers with the Dev team.  Once you attack them they will run for the hills. </div><div>I hope for the best and my Halfling will still feather anyone that falls with in my site.</div><div>It was really fun while it lasted.  Rangers FTW.</div>

[Mithremakor]

<div></div>I have been gone for nearly a year and I just came back the other day for another look at this game.  I still haven't gotten used to all the skill changes and such but it seems to me we've been nerfed to hell and gone while I was away.  How can we kite anymore with no shots that work on the move?  What do we have to keep us out of melee?  I used to kite yellow ^^ mobs but now I have trouble with greens!  Now we're looking at another nerf?  I'm gonna try out a new PvP server but I have strong doubts I'll stay past a single months subscription this time around.  Seriously, is there anywhere worthwhile that we can solo any more?<div></div>

[BedlamX]

JAY :While I do respect your ...let cooler heads prevail and stick with it people post.... This is still a game. A game that I pay for, along with all of the others out there. When the game is no longer fun for us what the sense in playing. I for one dont want this game to become a grind where I dont have fun. I fear that sticking with it for the months to come will do nothing for my overall enjoyment of online gaming.  On top of that I feel duped. All of these changes came within a week of going live. i have been told that I cannot return my preorder and stupid me I paid for the whole thing. Granted 30.00 wont make me or break me but even you have to question SOE's tactics in this. I will load KOS see what its all about but there are alot of people who dont want to be tenacious, where is the fun in struggling day after day.  Make no mistake I am not trying to flame you or your opinion. I simply feel that with these changes I will nolonger be usefull in groups or raids and I know that I am not alone.  Why take a nerfed ranger with little to no utility when you can have a DPS warlock or an assassin.  Perhaps I can betray Q at lvl 60 and at least try and have fun with a new class at least I will be having fun. For me thats what it has been all about. SOE has stolen that from me.BedlamX

[KnightOfTheWo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>BedlamX wrote:JAY :While I do respect your ...let cooler heads prevail and stick with it people post.... This is still a game. A game that I pay for, along with all of the others out there. When the game is no longer fun for us what the sense in playing. I for one dont want this game to become a grind where I dont have fun. I fear that sticking with it for the months to come will do nothing for my overall enjoyment of online gaming.  On top of that I feel duped. All of these changes came within a week of going live. i have been told that I cannot return my preorder and stupid me I paid for the whole thing. Granted 30.00 wont make me or break me but even you have to question SOE's tactics in this. I will load KOS see what its all about but there are alot of people who dont want to be tenacious, where is the fun in struggling day after day.  Make no mistake I am not trying to flame you or your opinion. I simply feel that with these changes I will nolonger be usefull in groups or raids and I know that I am not alone.  Why take a nerfed ranger with little to no utility when you can have a DPS warlock or an assassin.  Perhaps I can betray Q at lvl 60 and at least try and have fun with a new class at least I will be having fun. For me thats what it has been all about. SOE has stolen that from me.BedlamX<hr></blockquote>I guess it comes down to choice. Both the OP and Bedlam have valid approaches...and both have to decide how they want to go forward with this. True, it is a game, and it's also a way many of us like to enjoy our free time with other people.I'll be staying...but only because I'm hoping to at least encourage others who remain to keep /feedback on the devs. They seem to at least acknowledge that the formula is imbalanced, that if so much of our damage comes from procs, something has to be done. The rest of the time, I hope to learn if it's really possible to keep enjoying the Ranger. I can't see myself playing anything else, at least not too much. I love the rest of the game and KoS really seems to be a great expansion. It's painful that the expansion has to come at the same time as something like this. But with data we can send to the devs, we can try to make this class better for those who remain, and those who might hopefully return.Regardless, for those who are keeping on with this, who can find enough ways to enjoy the game after this, maybe we will share an ale or two. If not, I'll see you all somewhere else out there (don't worry, I promise not to name any MMOs That Should Not Be Named, the one or two out you may be thinking of...) <span>:smileyhappy:</span>Best of luck to all.</span></div>

[Mirdo]

<div></div><div>I stand corrected Cronon <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>I was being lazy - I find his posts via the Dev tracker and therefore refer to him as a 'Dev'.</div><div> </div><div>He is PR though and as such you would 'think' he might consider statements like the one he made a little more carefully. It has caused somewhat of a backlash and was probably made in error or with a lack of knowledge of the complete situation (like some of my recent posts on the subject).</div><div> </div><div>Anyway, I will be waiting for Ranger feedback from live before I buy KoS. I have plenty to do with alts, clearing up old quests on Mirdo and a holiday soon that means I won't 'have' to get the expansion for some time.</div><div> </div><div>Mirdo.</div>

[Trollb]

<div>seriously, if rangers solo as good as is rumored, and the fact they wear chain and have rogue utility... they dont deserve tier 1 dps.</div><div> </div><div>should be;</div><div> </div><div>dps caster tier 1</div><div> </div><div>assassins and rogues tier 2 (if not tier 1; swash, brig and assassin SUCK for soloing compared to dps casters who have root, and rangers who have ranged and snare!!)</div><div> </div><div>pet caster tier 2.5</div><div> </div><div>ranger and light tank tier 3</div><div> </div><div>heavy tank and healer tier 4 with zerker, fury, and inquisitioner on the high end of tier 4.</div><div> </div><div>The point spread between tier 1 and 4 shouldnt be really extreme anyhow.</div><div> </div>

[Arhan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div>The changes coming in LU 20 look really bad. We know some form of them will go in to correct our damage and balance us out with the other classes. At least, that's the intention.</div><div> </div><div>Now, we know how SOE develops software (with a sledgehammer) so we know we're probably going to get kicked back to the old days of T2 or T3 DPS. Don't get me wrong, I really, really hope our damage is still decent and we really are comparable to sorcs and assassins. But I fear this is just the pendulum swinging BACK toward 'Ineffective' and away from 'Holy Crap!' where we've been since LU13. These changes will likely have unintended consequences and affect us more severely than SOE wants.</div><div> </div><div>So what do we do? We fight. We are a DPS class and we will not give up our damage. We don't walk away in droves, scream at the Devs, hate on other classes and each other. We stick together, we stay focused, we fight HARD. Our community has been a very cohesive group for a while now, and while things have been more tumultuous here for the last several months, you cannot deny that this is an active community with some very passionate people. Even those who I've argued with directly, I recognize that we have one thing in common: that we care passionately about the ranger class.</div><div> </div><div>I realize people are going to vent for a while - go for it. Commiseration and sympathy will be in ample supply, and I've special ordered a LOT of extra ale for the coming months. But get the venting out of your system and if you care about this class, get ready to buckle down. Maybe I'm just sensing the winds of change blowing at hurricane force and this is all an overreaction (before the point of seeing them live no less) but maybe not. I think we'll end up doing less damage than SOE intends, and I think they're going to need our help to restore us to Tier 1, alongside sorcerors.</div><div> </div><div>Don't misunderstand me: the DPS that we've known since LU13 is history. It's gone. R.I.P, Super Rangers - it was fun while it lasted, c'est la vie. I'm fine with that, I'll get over it and move on. What I am NOT fine with is having the primary purpose of my class - ranged DPS - be scuttled to the point of mediocrity. DPS is not everything in this game, but it's our main role - and SOE does not want to change that.</div><div> </div><div>So don't wake up on the first day of LU20 and fear that you're confronting the future of your class. We may get hit hard, but we've always been a tenacious, persistant bunch. We can overcome this too, if we forego the infighting and hatred. Don't fall into that, it will only hurt us all in the long run.</div><div> </div><div>I hope enough of us stick this out, and work together to make it through the long haul. I'm going to do my best to endure. I hope you will too.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>I agree.  Either give us more buffs or debuffs or put us up to speed.  The proc cut as someone wrote nerfed us well below our other dps peers.  Lets at least get up to par with the others.  I don't want to be better...

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><font color="#99ff99">Dude, at least go learn about Rogues before you come here with this drivel. LOL  Ranger has Rogue utility. That is more ignorant than thinking Rangers have more utility than a Sorceror.</font>

[Mirdo]

<span><blockquote><hr>Trollboy wrote:<div>seriously, if rangers solo as good as is rumored, and the fact they wear chain and have rogue utility... they dont deserve tier 1 dps.</div><div> </div><div>should be;</div><div> </div><div>dps caster tier 1</div><div> </div><div>assassins and rogues tier 2 (if not tier 1; swash, brig and assassin SUCK for soloing compared to dps casters who have root, and rangers who have ranged and snare!!)</div><div> </div><div>pet caster tier 2.5</div><div> </div><div>ranger and light tank tier 3</div><div> </div><div>heavy tank and healer tier 4 with zerker, fury, and inquisitioner on the high end of tier 4.</div><div> </div><div>The point spread between tier 1 and 4 shouldnt be really extreme anyhow.</div><div> </div><hr></blockquote></span>I can only assume you are taking after your forum name with this post.Your complete lack of knowledge about any of the classes you mentioned in your post is staggering. I claim to be no expert in any class - but 'Brigands suck at soloing? Who told you that? I'm guessing it wasn't the Brigands that solo Poet's Palace. I can't go on - there's just too much to correct.<div></div>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<div></div>Wow I agree Mirdo - Oh so much wrong with that.  Best to ignore it since any words will bounce off deaf ears.

[Runewind]

I really wish I would have read these forums a couple weeks ago. But I was busy fighting for us on the beta forums... I had no idea what was coming until it hit and I feel like I've been hit in the stomache with a bat. I'm glad Jay posted though I was looking for a post of his because he's always a good voice of confidence and reason for this community. I have a question though to be constructive. What is the best way for us to get SOE to see this problem and fix it. Because it IS a problem. I know SOE has a history of letting these things go for several months before even touching them. But I can't even imagine several months at the current DPS. Several months of being out damaged by guardians and conjurers without pets....There has to be something we can do to open their eyes. Any suggestions?<div></div>

[kartikeya]

<div></div><p>Go to the combat forums. A ranger should do this who has tested extensively with a parser, in solos, groups, and if possible raids. Post these results in a no-nonsense, factual manner. No threats, no flames, no insults. State your case. Politely request that the many and varied arguments on summoner versus ranger utility, the comments about 'good ur nerfed lol', the stupid jabs against us as a whole be left out of this particular thread (as there are dozens to post that in already), and then ignore any and all inevitable posts to the same.</p><p>Then every single ranger needs to go to that thread, and post their experience in the same calm, but blunt manner. If you're angry, say so, but don't flame the devs. Get your ranger friends in game to post. Get your regular group mates to post.  Get your guild to post. And keep posting.</p><p>Don't troll other classes forums. Don't flame other classes. Try to ignore the stupidity that's flowing out certain poster's ears, and remain reasonable.</p><p>What gets things changed is not necessarily whining, but persistence. Keep this on their desk. /Feedback in game. Make it an issue that is very hard to ignore, but don't alienate the other classes that would otherwise agree with us by coming off as a raging lunatic.</p><p>...And then pray.</p><p> </p>

[yodamite]

<div>/agree I lived though the ups and downs of being a warlock but I just bit my tongue and kept playing. It ticked me off when they nerfed warlocks so I started a bruiser and just bounce back and forth between the two. So stick with it and see how things come about. I know some are stating ' i will quit if things don't changed in a week or 2.' Pfft don't hold your breath. It won't happen. I believe rangers were overpowered but I welcomed it in grps. I didn't care if I was being out dps'd by a ranger. I don't agree with the proc changes though. i think it should have been fixed in some other way. Some of you are going to disagree which is fine you have that right to. SOE just doesn't give an 'f' about what we say as long as we keep paying.</div>

[xfres]

<div>LU 20 is wanted by all rangers of Norrath for attempted muder! Willing to pay 1000 plat to the person who finds LU 20 and brings them to justice!</div><div> </div><div>These changes would be considered good if I were a wannabe priest!  Im gonna go cry......and run around being useless!  $*()Q% i just got wacked by a mob 20 levels lower than me........how can this be?  :picks up rubber blades and walks away:</div>

[Runewind]

It really seems the Devs don't care...they seem to THINK things are fixed and they're ignoring people who say otherwise. It really upsets me. I don't see how they can possibly ignore real parsed numbers from people. I can't even bring myself to log on at all. I was really excited about this update but now I'm completely bummed out. I really wish they would listen to us I would quit if I didn't have friends that played the game. Not just because of the nerf but because I feel like the devs are completely ignoring this issue. They don't seem to care that people are parsing numbers at less than half of a wizard's damage or that they're being outdamaged by guardians. They said they had their own ranger transfered to live to parse numbers and he came out in T1 still and no matter how much I want to believe that it seems that it's not the case. I trust other rangers in real group situations more. I do hope people post in the combat forums and feedback like mad. I'll do it too if I ever can bring myself to log on. Can anyone give me a good parser program so I can do that effectively?<div></div>

[Pathy]

<div></div><div>:smileyvery-happy: I decide to give SOE another try after a year and half  to come back just in time to re-experience the release of kunark. Hopefully the constructive posts, stats, charts, parse's, non-flaming thing actually works this time around........but from my 5 previous years of experience with SOE, (as sad as it sounds)the only time they seem to listen was when we [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ed, whined, moaned, complaind, protested, and opend up the 9th Gate of hell.</div>

[Xatrart]

<div></div>Welcome to Templar hell...LU 13 was only the beginning.

[Steezi]

<div></div><div></div><p>***Message to trollers trying to talk smack***</p><p>Read our posts or get off our pages. People like you [Removed for Content] me off.</p><p>GET A FUXXIN CLUE</p><p>EVERYONE OF US SAYS WE NEEDED TO BE NERFED</p><p>MAYBE YOU SHOULD CHECK OUT THE EXTENT TO WHICH WE WERE HM?</p><p>READ [Removed for Content] SMEDLEY'S ARTICLE ON RANGER NERFS BEFORE SHOWIN US HOW [Removed for Content] STUPID YOU ARE</p><p>Its bad enough when people come at us with false information and made up facts. To simply disregard what we are saying in the first place and then attempt to bash it makes me wonder about you personally... Did you go to school? Were u the kid in the back of the room that wouldnt pay attention, then if the teacher would make a slight exaggeration, you would be the first to call him on it?</p><p>Its a snide and ridiculous attitude like yours that makes stuff like this happen in the first place.</p><p>Message Edited by Steezity on <span class="date_text">02-27-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:25 PM</span></p>

[Caliga]

I've never seen someone so right about a prediction in my life.  It happened exactly as you suggested it would.  Sledgehammer nerf.<div></div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>Stylee apologizes for goin aggro. (specially onna red thread...)</p><p>:smileyvery-happy:</p>

[Jaack Daniels]

<div></div><div></div><div>For all those that say they are glad to see the rangers nerfed keep talkin folks that nerf bat is comin your way too. And yes open that 9th gate of hell before SOE think's we are starting to accept the changes. Let the feedback flow.</div><p>Message Edited by Jaack Daniels on <span class="date_text">02-28-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:33 PM</span></p>

[Siphar]

<div></div><p>I really don't see how we can fight. Just as in the matrix, the 'Agents' aka SoE have all the keys to all the doors <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> and well i dont see neo around to save us anytime soon.</p><p>Anyway, SoE will realise they went too far in a few months and revamp us again (if we lucky- but maybe next expansion) and add some weak apology and a silly expansion.</p><p>SoE: We realised that after extensive testing, the power capabaility of the ranger class per-LU20 was infact too harsh and we have made several adjustments to compensate the ranger class putting them back inline with their fellow tier-1 dps classes.</p><p>Translation: We finally gave up on our other lame broken titles and thought we better stop in on our current cash cow aka Eq2 and drop in some annual half-hearted fixes, especialy since you pay all year round, its the least we can do. We have had our band of monkeys work for atleast a week on a whole new combat system specially designed to completely change the Ranja class, you will be over-powered again for a couple of months to make up for the last x number of months in KoS, but beware for next years annual update/expansion cos we'll nerf you left, right and centre again to the point of being a fluff spell. Buts its ok, we we'll post another lame half-hearted apology somewhere nearer the time- Thanks the SoE team (thanks for your patience which is a virtue by the way and for putting in extra hours at the office aka playing EQ2)</p>

[strider19]

It's quite obvious seeing as how 95% of the posts in this class forum are disapointments in the nerf.  Not just disapointment, but factual evidence that we can not fulfill our role as the Ranger class.  The goal of the dev's should be to create class balance, so how can this issue be ignored when we are not anywhere near other classes?  Where do we stand? Are we a dps class? No. (evidence has been shown many times that we are below mages, fighters, and even some priests)Are we a tank class? No. (we wear chain armor, our avoidance is mediocre considering agi is "supposed" to be our main stat.  We go down 5 seconds later than a cloth                                        wearer would)Are we utility? No. (Aside from our 15% speed buff which is outdone by most other classes, we have one melee debuff which is very ineffective, and melee I might                                    add...aren't we a ranged class?)Can we heal? No.So what good are we? When our dps is so low and we can't provide a group with anything else.  Not only that, but why are we set apart from the other classes in such a negative way.  Has anyone ever seen a bow symbol on the HO wheel?  Does anyone else notice that agi (our apparently primary stat) is pretty much useless.I don't mean to complain, but we really need a fix.  And if the devs can't see that after the hundreds, maybe thousands of posts from rangers providing REAL evidence, I don't know what to say.<div></div>

[subari]

<div>/sarkasm on</div><div> </div><div>We are an outstanding class, with outstanding features. We are so outstanding, that we doesen't fit anywhere in the game. In german we say: I feel beeing the fifth wheel on a car. Means the ranger hangs on that car, but does not contribue to keep it moving.</div><div>We are a most flexible class. We have average DPS, small DPS and mediocre DPS.</div><div>We are a most groupfriendly class. Because we don't nerf other players with much of these ugly signs (known as groupbuffs) on the right side of the screen. And yes! I nearly forgot! Now we take care of the maltreated eyes of our tankfriends. This flashing proc all the time, it was a wonder that they weren't getting blinded.</div><div>We have unique features. Let me think a moment... ah yes! We have bowskills, nobody else can stick a mob as fast with arrows as we can. What the use of that is, you wanna know? Well our arrows marks the mob that mages have to nuke. :smileyvery-happy:</div><div>We are skilled in the way of cloaking. Yesterday someone said to me, that i do really small DPS for a brawler.</div><div>/sarkasm off</div><div> </div><div>I will keep playing my char, not only because i have written about 80 pages a story about the adventures it lived together with the chars of my guildm8s. Have i fun to play it? No, i am thankfull for having good friends an compagnions, they do not care, that i lost most of my dps, we have fun playing together, but i will no longer play solo.</div><div>I think we're a "broken arrow". :smileywink: And i hope SOE will fix our class, and this time take care of our feedback.</div>

[Steezi]

<div></div><p>broken arrow is a nuclear weapon :smileysurprised: (at least only def. i know...)</p><p>but i understand hehehe</p>

[subari]

<div>Jup! A LOST nuklear weapon. ^^</div>

[Stigch]

<div></div><p>that would make the former ussr arsenal a broken quiver then. A sobering thought. Anyway, I've been testing my ranger out in different situations. Before the hit I didn't bother to con a target, as long as it didn't have a ^ it was dead before it knew it. Now I actually have to test the waters first before I dive in. Con msg don't mean anything anymore. Can I still take down the mobs I used to? Well no, but we were more or less pushing over things that should have been out of our league. Can I hunt level appropriate mobs then? Welll, in all honesty, not really. I can do it just fine if they area an arrow down, but those mobs are few and far between. Normal mobs are reallly a stretch. I can do it, but it costs most my power and health. Down time after every fight. Annoying.</p><p>Can we be fixed again? Sure. the solution is rather simple. We've been hit by changing the mechanics of the game. We can be helped greatly by tweaking our arts and abilities. For instance, reducing the casting time of your ranged arts, gives us a better chance of getting them all off before the mob reaches us. It wouldn't have to be much, just a second here or there. Another tweak could be changing cheap shot back to stun ^ and ^^ non epic mobs. This would enable us to make better use of our stealth attacks and give us a greater range of targets. A stun or root component could be added to one of the ranged art lines, like wounding arrow, or triple shot.</p><p>Simple changes that provide us with an edge to our blunt weapons. Truely, we don't need much, but we do need something.</p><p>Do take into consideration that noone has a complete grasp of the new achiement bonusses. They might just make enough of a difference, although I fail to see how bounty does me any good at all, but there ya go.</p>

[Amistead]

<div></div><p>There seems to be a fixation in this thread upon naming Wizards as the top dps.  Just because Sony says it is so, doesn't make it so.  On single targets while rangers were putting out 1400ish on raid mobs, conjurors put out 1100ish, and Wizards peaked at around 800ish.  I don't play a Wizard or a Conjuror, but if Rangers want to aim for tier one dps, you should be comparing to the appropriate class.  Wizards are not tier one by any stretch of the imagination.  Rangers are no longer close to tier one from what I can tell.</p><p> </p><p>cheers.</p><p>Alezara~Warlock of Unrest~CORE</p><p> </p>

[Teksun]

<span><blockquote><hr>Amistead wrote:<div></div><p>There seems to be a fixation in this thread upon naming Wizards as the top dps.  Just because Sony says it is so, doesn't make it so.  On single targets while rangers were putting out 1400ish on raid mobs, conjurors put out 1100ish, and Wizards peaked at around 800ish.  I don't play a Wizard or a Conjuror, but if Rangers want to aim for tier one dps, you should be comparing to the appropriate class.  Wizards are not tier one by any stretch of the imagination.  Rangers are no longer close to tier one from what I can tell.</p><p> </p><p>cheers.</p><p>Alezara~Warlock of Unrest~CORE</p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>At this point I would KILL for 800 DPS /sigh</span><div></div>

[Generic123]

<div></div><blockquote><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr>Teksun wrote:<span><blockquote><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr>Amistead wrote:<div></div><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff">There seems to be a fixation in this thread upon naming Wizards as the top dps.  Just because Sony says it is so, doesn't make it so.  On single targets while rangers were putting out 1400ish on raid mobs, conjurors put out 1100ish, and Wizards peaked at around 800ish.  I don't play a Wizard or a Conjuror, but if Rangers want to aim for tier one dps, you should be comparing to the appropriate class.  Wizards are not tier one by any stretch of the imagination.  Rangers are no longer close to tier one from what I can tell.</font></p><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font> </p><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff">cheers.</font></p><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff">Alezara~Warlock of Unrest~CORE</font></p><p><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font> </p><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr></blockquote><font size="2" color="#ffffff">At this point I would KILL for 800 DPS /sigh</font></span><div><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font></div><font size="2" color="#ffffff"></font><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2">Keep in mind that 800DPS is for a Wizard with all spells at Master I or better in a 1 – 1.5 min fight against heavily debuffed raid mobs. <span> </span>Longer then that and the Wizard is OOP, shorter then that and they don’t have time for their DoT heavy damage to kick in and if the mob isn’t crazy debuffed you can cut that number in half. <span> </span>I doubt a well equipped Ranger in a top raiding guild would have much trouble hitting similar DPS under those same conditions. <span> </span></font></font></p><p><font color="#ffffff"><font size="2">WRT to poster you are responding to, it seems likely that SOE thinks mobs are dieing to quickly. <span> </span>If you will remember back to LU13 one of the things the devs said they wanted was lower overall DPS and longer fights, but we have generally seen the exact opposite. <span> </span>This leads me to believe that they are balancing the DPS classes by adjusting the higher classes down rather then the lower classes up.<span>  </span>This would mean adjusting Rangers downwards so they did similar DPS to Wizards who were generally the lowest of the 4 tier 1 DPS classes. <span> </span></font></font></p><p><font color="#000000"><font size="2"><font color="#ffffff">As for whether they hit that target or not I think we still need to wait a little longer for players to adjust and T7 raid parsings from the better raiding guilds to start rolling in.<span>  </span>Raids typically have longer fights and more optimized situations which evens out the fight to fight and group to group variability that normally clouds DPS comparisons.</font><span> </span></font></font></p>

[Teksun]

3/4 of my CA's are AD3. I have no DPS Masters, and in a GOOD fight I do 400 DPS (at lvl 62). I'm a little luckier in power. Mine can last a whole TWO minutes. That is, of course using legendary poison (12gp on a good day) and fulginate arrows (when I have them - if not they cost 5gp a stack)<div></div>

[Viglundr]

<div></div><p>We *are* a DPS class - and we will FIGHT!!</p><p> </p><p>errr...with what?</p>

[Jerana]

<div> </div><p>Message Edited by Jerana on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:44 PM</span></p>

[Jerana]

<div> </div><p>Message Edited by Jerana on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:44 PM</span></p>

[Jerana]

<div></div><div></div><p>I have a wet noodle and decaying bone...will that help?</p><p> </p><p>I also have issues with my browser <ahem> user <ahem> Ignore the top two posts :smileytongue:</p><p>Message Edited by Jerana on <span class="date_text">03-02-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:45 PM</span></p>

[Jaack Daniels]

<div></div>I can throw my left over sky essence at em :smileyvery-happy:

[tweety1972]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jaack Daniels wrote:<div></div>I can throw my left over sky essence at em :smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote>no no no......... you might throw out your arm and hurt your DPS some more  hehe, j/k :smileytongue:

[jimbrit]

<a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=29461#M29461"> http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=pvp&message.id=29461#M29461</a><div></div>

[Teksun]

As my hero says: <font size="7">SPOON</font><div></div>

[subari]

<div></div><div></div>Take your bowstring and strangle the mobs down. :smileyvery-happy:<p>Message Edited by subaridu on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:35 PM</span></p>

[Teksun]

<span><blockquote><hr>subaridu wrote:<div></div><div></div>Take your bowstring and strangle the mobs down. :smileyvery-happy:<p>Message Edited by subaridu on <span class="date_text">03-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:35 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Naw... That's to Assassinish <span>:smileytongue:</span></span><div></div>

[Bithnar]

<div></div>Does shooting a mob and then it dies laughing count?

[Infinity0]

It has ben a few days since I read these forums, has SOE decided to fix the ranger class?  If so when will the fix occur?<div></div>