Nerfing the crap out of rangers? Fine but give us back out uber heals like in EQ1 (/end sarcasm)

[Yon]

<div>I read the forums and I would like to say that I hope all your Wizzards/ Warlocks/ Assasins are happy, becasue I probablly about 99% of all Rangers aren't.  To reiterate a point taht has been killed rangers get most of their DPS from procs, take away the procs you take away the Ranger dps.  I played a ranger in eq1 and have played one in eq2 since I got the game last february.  Rangers sucked for a while and then were pretty good and people actually wanted me in groups, and now they are going to suck again.</div><div> </div><div>With this update we won't even be able to solo outside effectively b/c we won't be able to do teh initail damage to win the fight.  For example I use culling of the heard and then fire off a buch of CAs and then killed ^ heroics in SS but if I don't have that initial damage there is no way I will even be able to kill those.  I have master 1 defensive stance and I still can't tank for anything.  When I get it I get hit HARD.</div><div>I have seen my little brother who plays an enchanter chainstun and solo  ^^^ heroics only 2 or 3 levels below him,  I haven't complained about it, jsut said to myself wow chanters can solo well.  I have seen conj and necros with master 1 pets solo just as well and they are also amazing in a group, they can tank heal rez and dps.  But you don't hear rangers calling for nerfs of these guys. </div><div> </div><div>Not saying I want to play a solo class, I am saying that each class has what it is (was) good at and rangers had dps but couldn't solo for crap in a dungeon. We have NO utility except maybe pathfinding if you count that and a few self buffs and haste.  If you take away the DPS we are pretty much useless.  We can't DPS, we can't tank, we cant heal, we can't solo. </div><div> </div><div>So either don't let this go live or give us back or EQ1 healing powers (which sucked I know but trying to make a point) or give us higher mitigation.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Seriously at lvl 53 I have never used a stun poison or whatever and used debuff only when they are in teh guild bank or cheap.  How about you jsut remove the non damage poisons and leave it at that. </div><div> </div><div>P.S.</div><div> Rangers lets all try and get the Wizzards and Warlocks and Assasins nerfed.  Wizzards now have the same everythin but need regents and assasins are can't move for 5 seconds after going into stealth beacsue they are two powerful.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Thow out your nerf ideas for other classes here.  Just have fun with it.  (I totally killed me point and changed topic but whatever)</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Conj/ Necro need to have regents to summon a pet and  can only specialize in 1 type of pet.  They either get fighter scout mage or priest pets but not all of them.</div><div>Assasins: 5 second stun after getting into stealth to 'prepare' your attacks and no more moves that hit for over 10k or whatever move is allowing you to have 78k damage on the mele hit highscore list. </div><div>Wizzards/ Warlocks:  reageants for all spells and you can only cast spells of one element at a time. In order to use a different element you need to change 'focus' which stuns you for 1 minute as you concentrate your uberness.   You also loose ALL your spells that aren't specifically DPS so no more pet for you warlock.</div><div>Bruiser/Monk as time goes on in an encounter your avoidence goes down .5% per second becasue you are not able to keep your energy up to match you high avoidence.  Increase stamina to lengthen the time you can keep your avoidence up.</div><div>Enchanter/Coercer  Coercer's name is being chanted to Sparcklemaster beacasue the wizzard community was angry that the coercer had a name similar to sorcerer.  The wizzards up in arms decided to get the name changed to Sparcklemaster and coerceres can now summon individual pixles from a mob and slowly kill it.  (feature does not work in PVP)  Enchanters stun themselves everytime they mezz becasue they are two powerfull to be used as a solo tool.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>and much much more in EQ2: 3</div>

[theorbell]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>But you don't hear rangers calling for nerfs of these guys. <div> </div><div>..........</div><div>P.S.</div><div> Rangers lets all try and get the Wizzards and Warlocks and Assasins nerfed.  Wizzards now have the same everythin but need regents and assasins are can't move for 5 seconds after going into stealth beacsue they are two powerful.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Thow out your nerf ideas for other classes here.  Just have fun with it.  (I totally killed me point and changed topic but whatever)<hr></div></blockquote>I really hope you're just kidding, you totally reversed yourself.  Let's not do what has been done to us.  I don't support this line of thinking at all.

[Taubin]

<div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr>theorbell wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>But you don't hear rangers calling for nerfs of these guys. <div> </div><div>..........</div><div>P.S.</div><div> Rangers lets all try and get the Wizzards and Warlocks and Assasins nerfed.  Wizzards now have the same everythin but need regents and assasins are can't move for 5 seconds after going into stealth beacsue they are two powerful.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Thow out your nerf ideas for other classes here.  Just have fun with it.  (I totally killed me point and changed topic but whatever)<hr></div></blockquote>I really hope you're just kidding, you totally reversed yourself.  Let's not do what has been done to us.  I don't support this line of thinking at all.<hr></blockquote>/agree with RelaThere is no reason for us to draw more hatred towards us...  NONE</span></div>

[KnightOfTheWo]

<div></div>I posted in several threads pretty much arguing "wait and see." I probably shouldn't have bothered because those posts are seen as "fanboi" or "head in the sand."I guess if things really are that bad I will be in the /feedback to devs camp asking them to revisit this issue. But even then, I don't see asking for changes to other classes who I don't understand accomplishing anything. It would just be a pointless cycle. I understand Rangers. I have no idea how Wizards do what they do, or the other classes. I'll stay with Rangers and continue to ask the devs to look at this, on beta if possible.For the rest of ya...hang in there and best of luck. If this makes EQ2 unplayable for you, I'll probably see you in those fabled "greener MMO pastures" out there somewhere. <span>:robothappy:</span><div></div>

[klepp]

<div></div>vangaurd ftw!  lol soe is tryign to hold onto customers.. this is suuuuure the way to do it.  Omg wait i know... give out more free xp!! and take away debt all together! ...

[Daxtyr_AnnonTuri]

wait ... wait i know .......... magic specialization ... ONE element  I.E. Fire spells only ... or earth or what ever.make all wizzies or conjuer's pick a School of magic and they will NEVER be able to cast ANY other school of magic.or ... just get rid of the wizzies all to gether and make everyone into gimped guardians with a wand that cast's fireballs for you ..... based on your level ......... OH never mind that is WoW shaman.i say screw all magic useing casters nerf em all i dont care ... i am going warden or fury anyways.when they nerf healing to where i need to carry bandaid's ... then we will be balanced.-Dax

[Skratttt]

<div></div><p>Yonar i know you are bitter about this but dont be a Noob and post stuff about assassins having 60K+ hits like that means something..those were agains lvl 6 chars in duels before it was fixed</p><p>If you have ever played assassin u will realize its easy the hardest of all T1 classes to attain proper dps with....</p><p>And it wasent Rangers who were nerfed...it was a proc mechanic calculation that was WAY out of whack...it also affects us but not as much since we never really relied on  procs for our dmg, 90% of our dmg comes from CA's + auto atack our offensive stance goes off maybe 3 times per epic fight, thats why u guys should have complained...ur dmg was too based off a broken calculation</p><p>Rangers need their CA' dmg increased (or get a more dmging bow auto atack)</p><p>Wizzards are atm not T1....Warlocks can Be T1 in AE fights....but Sorcerers are the problem they are t1 yet have utility of a t3</p>

[Korpo]

High ranger DPS is (was?) based upon a broken mechanic, namely that a CA looks at your weapon delay when calculating the chance to proc. Using a slow as heck bow, but casting CAs every second (or faster) results in a massive number of procs that weren't supposed to happen. Whether these procs were a result of offensive stance, poison, bow, weapons, armor, hats, buffs others cast, or anything else is irrelevant. Those procs were of course not intended, if a proc was intended to go off 75% of the time you use an art, then the arts would list "75% chance to go off", not "20% chance to go off".Further, every ranger out there knew exactly where the damage came from, which is also the reason longbows outsell shortbows by a factor of approximately infinity. This is also the reason that high DD/low DOT poison outsells low DD/high DOT in roughly the same ratio as the bows. Any ranger telling you that they didn't know this is the reason they do/did so much damage is either:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol>It was fun while it lasted. Arguing that because a wiz can buff the group's int/str, rangers should do be doing 2-3x as much damage, when both are "T1 DPS" is silly. This change is a necessary change to get proc damage normalized across all classes, so that a zerker's 20% chance to proc is the same as a monk's 20% chance to proc is the same as a ranger's 20% chance to proc. If, after the change, it is determined that rangers do on average 90% of the DPS they should be, then individual CAs will most likely be changed to adjust that. If, after the change, it is determined that rangers do on average 110% of the DPS they should be, then individual CAs will most likely be changed to adjust that. Trying to adjust DPS to reasonable levels while an obviously broken mechanic is in place will never work, and is like putting tape on a flat tire to fix it.<div></div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div></div><div>"wait ... wait i know .......... magic specialization ... ONE element  I.E. Fire spells only ... or earth or what ever.make all wizzies or conjuer's pick a School of magic and they will NEVER be able to cast ANY other school of magic.or ... just get rid of the wizzies all to gether and make everyone into gimped guardians with a wand that cast's fireballs for you ..... based on your level ......... OH never mind that is WoW shaman.i say screw all magic useing casters nerf em all i dont care ... i am going warden or fury anyways.when they nerf healing to where i need to carry bandaid's ... then we will be balanced.-Dax"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">another...dax..clasic</font></div><p></p><div><div></div></div>

[TimUK]

<div></div><div></div><p>Agree with above post, shame tho, wanted to do some nice damage in the future with my ranger in training <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p><p><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/view_profile?user.id=86116"><span>korpo53</span><font color="#ff0000"> </font></a>'s post that is</p><p>Message Edited by TimUK on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:46 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by TimUK on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:46 AM</span></p>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:Further, every ranger out there knew exactly where the damage came from, which is also the reason longbows outsell shortbows by a factor of approximately infinity. This is also the reason that high DD/low DOT poison outsells low DD/high DOT in roughly the same ratio as the bows. Any ranger telling you that they didn't know this is the reason they do/did so much damage is either:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol><hr></blockquote><p>Actually there is a 3.</p><p>3.  Developer</p><p>Blackguard said so himself.  Now that I think about it, the only ones who don't know this is the developers.   You seemed surprised that Rangers would gear themselves for maximum damage out-put.  Name another class that does not gear themselves to maximize their skills.  Well....?</p><p>And whether or not poisons/procs come into play, the long bow will always be a better bow for Rangers than a short bow.  There's that a little thing called "Combat Arts" that don't take weapon speed into consideration but does consider weapon damage.  Not to mention it has a better damage per arrow ratio which helps keep from running out of arrows.</p><p>Same concept applies to poisons.  When a poison procs, it over-writes what's left of the DOT from the previous proc.  So almost all rangers use the High up-front DD to, ummm, maximize damage out-put.  The poison change will slide the bar a little, but not enough to be noticable.  We'll still be buying High DD damage poisons primarily.  The low DD High DOT is still only going to be useful in long fights.  That is not going to change.</p><p>I'm guessing, based on your lack of knowledge in this area, you don't play a Ranger.</p>

[Prandtl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:High ranger DPS is (was?) based upon a broken mechanic, namely that a CA looks at your weapon delay when calculating the chance to proc. Using a slow as heck bow, but casting CAs every second (or faster) results in a massive number of procs that weren't supposed to happen. Whether these procs were a result of offensive stance, poison, bow, weapons, armor, hats, buffs others cast, or anything else is irrelevant. Those procs were of course not intended, if a proc was intended to go off 75% of the time you use an art, then the arts would list "75% chance to go off", not "20% chance to go off".Further, every ranger out there knew exactly where the damage came from, which is also the reason longbows outsell shortbows by a factor of approximately infinity. This is also the reason that high DD/low DOT poison outsells low DD/high DOT in roughly the same ratio as the bows. Any ranger telling you that they didn't know this is the reason they do/did so much damage is either:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol>It was fun while it lasted. Arguing that because a wiz can buff the group's int/str, rangers should do be doing 2-3x as much damage, when both are "T1 DPS" is silly. This change is a necessary change to get proc damage normalized across all classes, so that a zerker's 20% chance to proc is the same as a monk's 20% chance to proc is the same as a ranger's 20% chance to proc. If, after the change, it is determined that rangers do on average 90% of the DPS they should be, then individual CAs will most likely be changed to adjust that. If, after the change, it is determined that rangers do on average 110% of the DPS they should be, then individual CAs will most likely be changed to adjust that. Trying to adjust DPS to reasonable levels while an obviously broken mechanic is in place will never work, and is like putting tape on a flat tire to fix it.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>This was a very well worded and properly punctuated post.  Well done Blackguard!</p><p>Tape on a flat tire is a valid method of getting you to the garage without breaking your car. Unfortunately, SOE has been duct taping and band-aiding this game for a year and half.  To suddenly declare a basic mechanism of the game a "bug" and to insinuate that rangers were exploiting it to gain high DPS is not only ludicrous, but also insulting.  We rangers as a group studied the game mechanics and ascertained that we were a DPS class. Not much can slip past a ranger! </p><p>From these studies we determined that a long delay weapon and DD poisons maximized our DPS.   We took information the devs gave us, parsed our fights, experimented with different weapon, gear, and poison set ups, crunched some equations and numbers, and voila!  Oh my goodness, we are exploiting. Ban us.  Or at least nerf those wily [Removed for Content]</p><p>I hate to tell you this, but the well versed ranger caught mathmatics fever.  It pays better then spelling and grammar and you dont have to sell french fries</p>

[BaYbEE-Fi]

<div></div><p>So Far in this nerf weve had.</p><p>1/ stream of arrows nerfed to outside mellee range.</p><p>2/ Reverse runspeed nerf, aka no kiting.</p><p>3/ procs only now on first attack of combat art. aka terrible dps.</p><p>yep i agree its back to the days where Rangers wont be wanted in groups again and we will suck at solo, one more nerf and we may as well push the delete button ?</p><p>And on the PvP beta forums the hardcore Scout haters are calling for more nerfs, there big one atm is they want evac nerfed, it just freaks me out, especially considering the power of so many other classes that remain untouched.</p><p>This is really bad timing after SoE stating that there will be no nerfs relating to PvE because of PvP, coincidence ? i hope so.</p>

[CrimsonValerian]

<div></div>As far as ranger soloing, what point do i feel sorry about that?  I've had to solo with my assassin with my ahem non ranger dps, dying a helluva lot, trying out different ways to stay alive, i don't feel bad for you guys you've had it super good for quite a while.  My assassin goes balls out to get even CLOSE to your dps, now that it's going away it's not such a bad thing, you're not the only dps class, my dps is going to drop also, and i'm not complaining about it.

[jagermiester]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>CrimsonValerian wrote:<div></div>As far as ranger soloing, what point do i feel sorry about that?  I've had to solo with my assassin with my ahem non ranger dps, dying a helluva lot, trying out different ways to stay alive, i don't feel bad for you guys you've had it super good for quite a while.  My assassin goes balls out to get even CLOSE to your dps, now that it's going away it's not such a bad thing, you're not the only dps class, my dps is going to drop also, and i'm not complaining about it.<hr></blockquote><strong>Why dont you go proclaim your "victory" on the paladin boards and leave to topic of discussion to the people it is relevant to</strong>.

[TDizzle]

<div></div><div>my god....why not just nerf everyone!   Jeeze rangers are for raged dps and thats still a task you perform with the best of them   but jeeze warlocks having to use reagents for every spell cast and only able to use one skill type at a time?  (thak god most all my spells are noctigavance)  but jeeze what a harsh view on things     Seriously imo caster classes should do more damage than a ranger...cmon magic spells!  Magic!  magic should do more damage than an arrow       but i do feel bad that rangers are takin this so harshly  but it isnt the end of the world  people will always want rangers around  so just stick with it</div>

[Mentla]

<div></div>OP exemplifies why I retired my Ranger and why more and more people dislike them.  99% of unbiased parses show Rangers in TGod (as it's becoming know) with Wizards and Warlocks just scraping into T1.  Then some ignorant fool like you asks them to be nefred?  Why, so when Rangers become T1 <u><b>as they are suposed to</b></u>, everyone else drops into T2?<div></div>

[Tes Mar'a]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>TDizzle wrote:<div></div><div>Seriously imo caster classes should do more damage than a ranger...cmon magic spells!  Magic!  magic should do more damage than an arrow       but i do feel bad that rangers are takin this so harshly  but it isnt the end of the world  people will always want rangers around  so just stick with it</div><hr></blockquote>But then take away the casters buffs, and give them to the rangers. (No I don't want the buffs, I want my DPS)But if casters do the most damage and brings buffs to the group/raids, then why invite the ranger to the group/raid?</span></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TDizzle wrote:<div></div><div>my god....why not just nerf everyone!   Jeeze rangers are for raged dps and thats still a task you perform with the best of them   but jeeze warlocks having to use reagents for every spell cast and only able to use one skill type at a time?  (thak god most all my spells are noctigavance)  but jeeze what a harsh view on things     Seriously imo caster classes should do more damage than a ranger...cmon magic spells!  Magic!  magic should do more damage than an arrow       but i do feel bad that rangers are takin this so harshly  but it isnt the end of the world  people will always want rangers around  so just stick with it</div><hr></blockquote>I have seen this argument for a looong time even in eq1 days when rogues were the dps kings.  Wizzards were up in arms.  Remember that not only are we masters of the bow... But master of poisons.  While an ice comet will lay waste to a foe... So will the right poisons. 

[Mentla]

<span><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>TDizzle wrote:<div></div><div>my god....why not just nerf everyone!   Jeeze rangers are for raged dps and thats still a task you perform with the best of them   but jeeze warlocks having to use reagents for every spell cast and only able to use one skill type at a time?  (thak god most all my spells are noctigavance)  but jeeze what a harsh view on things     Seriously imo caster classes should do more damage than a ranger...cmon magic spells!  Magic!  magic should do more damage than an arrow       but i do feel bad that rangers are takin this so harshly  but it isnt the end of the world  people will always want rangers around  so just stick with it</div><hr></blockquote>I have seen this argument for a looong time even in eq1 days when rogues were the dps kings.  Wizzards were up in arms.  Remember that not only are we masters of the bow... But master of poisons.  While an ice comet will lay waste to a foe... So will the right poisons. <hr></blockquote>...and oop and haveing WAY less HP if they pull agro....</span><div></div>

[Nezzr]

Ok, heres something I dont understand.  Someone said that Rangers simply took a look at game mechanics, and did some math, blah blah, to figure out how to do the best DPS.  One of my best friends is a Ranger, and let me tell you how it actually happens.  He noticed that you get more procs using a longbow, so he used a longbow.  He saw legendary poisons were awesome, so he used legendary poisons.  Then on a raid, he stood back, and clicked Stream of Arrows and out DPS'd everyone by 30%.  So please, cry and whine that they took away your ability to do Tier God, as someone called it, DPS by using 1 combat art.  You had to know this was coming.  When a Ranger can click one button, and out DPS everyone on a raid, can you really not expect to get nerfed?<div></div>

[Fennir]

lolstream of arrows isnt the key to ranger dpsbut you're very correct only someone who doesn't play a ranger or a very sucky ranger would think soand if those are the people who don't play rangers after the patch i think we can consider ourselves lucky as a class<div></div>

[leafnin]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>KnightOfTheWord wrote:<div></div>I posted in several threads pretty much arguing "wait and see." I probably shouldn't have bothered because those posts are seen as "fanboi" or "head in the sand."I guess if things really are that bad I will be in the /feedback to devs camp asking them to revisit this issue. But even then, I don't see asking for changes to other classes who I don't understand accomplishing anything. It would just be a pointless cycle. I understand Rangers. I have no idea how Wizards do what they do, or the other classes. I'll stay with Rangers and continue to ask the devs to look at this, on beta if possible.For the rest of ya...hang in there and best of luck. If this makes EQ2 unplayable for you, I'll probably see you in those fabled "greener MMO pastures" out there somewhere. <span>:robothappy:</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>/ agree I'll give the changes a try see how bad/good it is.  If it's as bad as is being broadcasted from Beta well I've got enough rope to hang them with.  If it works out fine tweak and move on. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>Falcon</p><p>60 Ranger</p><p>Kithicor</p>

[Darice]

<div> </div><div>--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div> </div><div>But if casters do the most damage and brings buffs to the group/raids, then why invite the ranger to the group/raid?</div><div>-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------</div><div> </div><div>Ranger(s)  are  and will be needed on raids.  Most casters are  face planted   after the first Ice Comet and rangers  dont have the same agro issues....:smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div>We will work this out.. just as we have  done in the past and in the future..... to be a good ranger is to adjust  and own  what they throw at  us....... they cant keep us down!!!</div><div> </div><div>So let the ROBES have the power for now.... as they  face plant and wait for  rez..... we will out damage them.....</div><div> </div><div>The Assassins  can  drop all their hate on them   so they can drop even faster :smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy::smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Skyra</div><div> </div>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Prandtl wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol><hr></blockquote><p>This was a very well worded and properly punctuated post.  Well done Blackguard!</p><p><snip></p><p> We rangers as a group studied the game mechanics and ascertained that we were a DPS class. <font color="#ffff33">Not much can slip past a ranger! </font></p><p><snip></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>HAHAHAHAHA...oh.. so help me god I have to laugh</p><p>Pran, you're killin me bro. The image of a bunch of us all studiously crunching numbers and running tests that lead to this "EUREKA!!! You guys, WE'RE A DPS CLASS!!" moment is absolutely hilarous.</p><p>You're right tho, gotta get up pretty  early in the mornin to pull the wool over the ranjas eyes! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But hey now, no hating on spelling and grammar! Sure, math pays well but how you gonna even GET a job if you can't spell and punctuate correctly? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh wait, programmers!</p>

[Bithnar]

<div></div><p>Spelling? Grammer? Isn't that what my Spel cheeker is four?</p><p> </p><p>Uhm . . .</p><p> </p><p>Crud!</p>

[TrigunVash]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Prandtl wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol><hr></blockquote><p>This was a very well worded and properly punctuated post.  Well done Blackguard!</p><p></p><p> We rangers as a group studied the game mechanics and ascertained that we were a DPS class. <font color="#ffff33">Not much can slip past a ranger! </font></p><p></p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>HAHAHAHAHA...oh.. so help me god I have to laugh</p><p>Pran, you're killin me bro. The image of a bunch of us all studiously crunching numbers and running tests that lead to this "EUREKA!!! You guys, WE'RE A DPS CLASS!!" moment is absolutely hilarous.</p><p>You're right tho, gotta get up pretty  early in the mornin to pull the wool over the ranjas eyes! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>But hey now, no hating on spelling and grammar! Sure, math pays well but how you gonna even GET a job if you can't spell and punctuate correctly? <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> Oh wait, programmers!</p><hr></blockquote>AHAHAHHA i had to laugh too, this is comedy. If SOE (excuse the french) [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]S this up, im going ot retire my 60 ranger and work on my level 37 necro FTW.It already looks bad, i was mislead into picking a class that seemed all out DPS veryyyyyyy low utility (evac FTW)and turn it into a low end T1 or high end T2 DPS class that wont pull aggro when they bust their nuts trying to do good damage.I would rather be a 70 wizzy that has top T1 dps in the game, and learn how to play to NOT take aggro, its not all about smashing out your skills silly, i hope people know how to play their class that post >.<if i dont parse 1K on raids at level 70 with fabled gear and masters, goooodddbyeee SoE

[CrimsonValerian]

<div> </div><p>Message Edited by CrimsonValerian on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:40 PM</span></p>

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:Further, every ranger out there knew exactly where the damage came from, which is also the reason longbows outsell shortbows by a factor of approximately infinity. This is also the reason that high DD/low DOT poison outsells low DD/high DOT in roughly the same ratio as the bows. Any ranger telling you that they didn't know this is the reason they do/did so much damage is either:<ol><li>lying</li><li>level 3</li><li>there is no 3</li></ol><hr></blockquote><p>Actually there is a 3.</p><p>3.  Developer</p><p>Blackguard said so himself.  Now that I think about it, the only ones who don't know this is the developers.   You seemed surprised that Rangers would gear themselves for maximum damage out-put.  Name another class that does not gear themselves to maximize their skills.  Well....?</p><p>And whether or not poisons/procs come into play, the long bow will always be a better bow for Rangers than a short bow.  There's that a little thing called "Combat Arts" that don't take weapon speed into consideration but does consider weapon damage.  Not to mention it has a better damage per arrow ratio which helps keep from running out of arrows.</p><p>Same concept applies to poisons.  When a poison procs, it over-writes what's left of the DOT from the previous proc.  So almost all rangers use the High up-front DD to, ummm, maximize damage out-put.  The poison change will slide the bar a little, but not enough to be noticable.  We'll still be buying High DD damage poisons primarily.  The low DD High DOT is still only going to be useful in long fights.  That is not going to change.</p><p>I'm guessing, based on your lack of knowledge in this area, you don't play a Ranger.</p><hr></blockquote>Read on in Blackguard's post and you'll see what he meant by the "55% of ranger damage blah blah blah" quote, or continue to spew nonsense; you know, whatever.I am not surprised that rangers would gear themselves for maximum output, but I'm also not surprised that the broken mechanic was fixed, as many <b></b>rangers seem to be. As I said, every ranger out there knew the mechanic. Every ranger had to (or should have) realized that things were wonky. Anyone can put wonky + mechanic = fix (eventually) together, but some rangers seem to get wonky + mechanic = intended.You are proving my point. Yes, when a poison procs it does cancel the rest of the DOT on the previous poison proc. This is why a class relying on huge numbers of broken poison procs, poison procing much faster than it should, would want to move the damage to the front of the "poisoned time" instead of going for the increased <b>total</b> damage from a high DOT poison. I'm not in the game right now, so I'm going to work with approximate numbers: a 7s delay longbow with a 25% chance to proc poison should proc on average once every 28s. What's the duration of a poison proc? 12s? 18s? I don't remember off the top of my head, but it's not that critical to the math.Using T6 rare poisons:Sting of Virulence does 249 + 95 + 249 * ticksAdeste Disruption does 451 + 74 + 74 * ticksOne tick has them both about even. Total is 593 for SoV and 599 for AD. Any additional ticks move SoV ahead by 175/tick. For the math challenged, that means <b>in any case other than poison procing constantly, high DOT poison gives more damage</b>. You can feel free to buy all the high DD poison you want, but if they fix things right so that poison procs every 28s or so, you will be losing potential damage.I'm guessing, based on your lack of knowledge in this area, you don't understand math. I do, however, play a ranger.</span></div>

[Fennir]

I will most likely never be purchasing a high DD low DoT poison again.  Any ranger who knows how the proc change will affect us will be doing the same.Solo fights are not going to be over in 1-5s anymore.  Group fights are not going to be over in 10-25s anymore.  Some might, but most won't, and if we're not proccing as much, every time the DoT ticks it will be making up for our lost procs.  It's very simple.<div></div>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>You guys are being awfully serious about all this. Is it time to bring out Bobo the Drunken Halfling Clown?</p>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><div>I met Bobo.  He's a warlock/paladin who has a Ranger alt and just told an analyst that he doesn't know math.  He alos thinks that a high DOT poison gives more damage in <strong>any case</strong> other than a constant proc. :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Edit:  Mispelled a word just to irritate someone special.</div><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:22 PM</span></p>

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<div>I met Bobo.  He's a warlock/paladin who has a Ranger alt and just told an analyst that he doesn't know math.  He alos thinks that a high DOT poison gives more damage in <strong>any case</strong> other than a constant proc. :smileyvery-happy:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Edit:  Mispelled a word just to irritate someone special.</div><p>Message Edited by Gareorn on <span class="date_text">02-17-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:22 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>I just met someone that can't read!</span><blockquote><span>Using T6 rare poisons:</span><span>Sting of Virulence does 249 + 95 + 249 * ticks</span><span>Adeste Disruption does 451 + 74 + 74 * ticks</span><span></span><span>One tick has them both about even. Total is 593 for SoV and 599 for AD. Any additional ticks move SoV ahead by 175/tick. For the math challenged, that means <b>in any case other than poison procing constantly, high DOT poison gives more damage</b>. You can feel free to buy all the high DD poison you want, but if they fix things right so that poison procs every 28s or so, you will be losing potential damage.</span><span></span></blockquote><span>Doing some quick math, hold on.Carry the one...Factoring...Reticulating splines...Yup.For one tick, 593 (SoV) and 599 (AD) are almost the same. (AD does 1.01% more damage)For two ticks, 842 > 673.For three ticks, 1091 > 747.For four ticks, 1340 > 821.I'd love to hear this analyst explain how those numbers are wrong though.</span></div>

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:I will most likely never be purchasing a high DD low DoT poison again.  Any ranger who knows how the proc change will affect us will be doing the same.Solo fights are not going to be over in 1-5s anymore.  Group fights are not going to be over in 10-25s anymore.  Some might, but most won't, and if we're not proccing as much, every time the DoT ticks it will be making up for our lost procs.  It's very simple.<div></div><hr></blockquote>Tobias, I don't think this is going to be quite true.  I think that in group situations the mobs will still drop at about the same rate.  You have to remember that the casters all have increased dps now that their weapons proc when they cast (assuming this isn't a bug that gets fixed).  You'll still want that up front DD in most situations to maximize your damage.  What good is a DoT when the mob dies right after a poison proc?  The high end raid mobs are a little different story.  You can assume several procs on those mobs and I definately plan on using the high DoTs on those, but won't really know for sure until this whole mess goes live and have a chance to analyze the different situations.

[Gareorn]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bobo wrote:<div><span></span><span>Yup.For one tick, 593 (SoV) and 599 (AD) are almost the same. (AD does 1.01% more damage)For two ticks, 842 > 673.For three ticks, 1091 > 747.For four ticks, 1340 > 821.I'd love to hear this analyst explain how those numbers are wrong though.</span></div><hr></blockquote>That's hardly every poison and every situation.  I swear, give a chimp a pencil, an all of a sudden he's a rocket scientist.:smileytongue:

[Korpo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<blockquote><hr>Bobo wrote:<div><span></span><span>Yup.For one tick, 593 (SoV) and 599 (AD) are almost the same. (AD does 1.01% more damage)For two ticks, 842 > 673.For three ticks, 1091 > 747.For four ticks, 1340 > 821.I'd love to hear this analyst explain how those numbers are wrong though.</span></div><hr></blockquote>That's hardly every poison and every situation.  I swear, give a chimp a pencil, an all of a sudden he's a rocket scientist.:smileytongue:<hr></blockquote>As I said, it's an example of the T6 rare HDD/LDOT vs. the T6 rare LDD/HDOT (actually they're the <u>very</u> high/low), and adding up the damage over the number of ticks. For zero ticks, AD wins. For one tick, it's a dead heat. For any additional ticks, SoV wins by an increasing margin. Teh numbars don't lie. In a situation where a poison procs and ticks any number of times more than 0, you are better off using LDD/HDOT. Since poisons are going to proc much less real soon, this isn't an make-believe situation.I'm too lazy to do all the math for every poison (76 of them by my count) over a varying number of ticks (0-4), but here's the results for three ticks, all the T6 rare poisons:</span><blockquote><span>Very small DD / Very large DOT</span><blockquote><span>Sting of Virulence - 1091</span><span>Wail of the Banshee - 853</span><span>Scalding Blood - 890</span><span>Kyri's Hateborn Toxin - 839</span><span>Adeste Disruption - 747</span></blockquote><span>Very large DD / Very small DOT</span></blockquote>Teaching a chimp to write is easy, teaching all the other chimps to read is the problem.</div>

[Prandtl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>korpo53 wrote:<div><span><blockquote><hr>Gareorn wrote:<blockquote><hr>Bobo wrote:<div><span></span><span>Yup.For one tick, 593 (SoV) and 599 (AD) are almost the same. (AD does 1.01% more damage)For two ticks, 842 > 673.For three ticks, 1091 > 747.For four ticks, 1340 > 821.I'd love to hear this analyst explain how those numbers are wrong though.</span></div><hr></blockquote>That's hardly every poison and every situation.  I swear, give a chimp a pencil, an all of a sudden he's a rocket scientist.:smileytongue:<hr></blockquote>As I said, it's an example of the T6 rare HDD/LDOT vs. the T6 rare LDD/HDOT (actually they're the <u>very</u> high/low), and adding up the damage over the number of ticks. For zero ticks, AD wins. For one tick, it's a dead heat. For any additional ticks, SoV wins by an increasing margin. <font color="#ff0000"><strong>Teh numbars</strong> </font>don't lie. In a situation where a poison procs and ticks any number of times more than 0, you are better off using LDD/HDOT. Since poisons are going to proc much less real soon, this isn't an make-believe situation.I'm too lazy to do all the math for every poison (76 of them by my count) over a varying number of ticks (0-4), but here's the results for three ticks, all the T6 rare poisons:</span><blockquote><span>Very small DD / Very large DOT</span><blockquote><span>Sting of Virulence - 1091</span><span>Wail of the Banshee - 853</span><span>Scalding Blood - 890</span><span>Kyri's Hateborn Toxin - 839</span><span>Adeste Disruption - 747</span></blockquote><span>Very large DD / Very small DOT</span></blockquote>Teaching a chimp to write is easy, teaching all the other chimps to read is the problem.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Oh my.  Wht don't you buy a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]ing spell checker Mr. Perfect?  I have lost all respect for you. </p><p>Oh wait!  I respect the person that hands me my french fries. I don't respect the person that corrects my grammar when he hands them to me.  My bad</p><p>face it.  it's easier to learn math, and it pays better</p>

[Prandtl]

<div></div><p>Oh.</p><p>before I'm insulted for insulting people who fry french fries.  I have the greatest respect for people that actually work for a living.  I have none for people that inform me that my interpretation of Ulysses does not agree with what they taught a chimp.</p>