Not a doomsday msg but I foreboding...

[StealthM0]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div></div><div>This is quoted from a thread below...</div><div><a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8643">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8643</a></div><div> </div><div>"<font color="#ffff00">There have been some posts in the General Tradeskill forums with the effects on no sub-combines and the effect on Potions/Poisons crafting</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">1. The Bi-Product for making rare potions/poisons will be granted when making any Combat Art/Spell Scroll. </font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">2. Potions/Poisons will be changing to single charge items but they will be stackable. </font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">3. The names of potions/poisons will become more streamlined and understandable to the alchemist's customers. </font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">4. There will be a shorter list of effects that potions/poisons can do but they will all be useful to the right customer.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">5. There will no longer be Rare potions/poisons.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00"><p><font color="#ffff00">Rare poisons were never intended to be used by a class 100% of the time.  We will be looking into seeing if there is a "comfortable" medium for increasing common poisons to compensate for any loss of overall potential damage though.</font></p>"</font></div><p><span class="time_text">This is KoS/lu20 if I am not mistaken, this is going to meen adaptation again if I am not mistaken. 8(</span></p><p>Discuss...</p><p>Message Edited by StealthM0de on <span class="date_text">02-13-2006</span><span class="time_text">05:31 AM</span></p>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><p><font color="#33ccff">hmm. lots of changes by the looks of it.</font></p><blockquote><hr>StealthM0de wrote:<div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">1. The Bi-Product for making rare potions/poisons will be granted when making any Combat Art/Spell Scroll. </font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">no more making the vials yourself. well, can live with it, if the market prices are ok.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">2. Potions/Poisons will be changing to single charge items but they will be stackable.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">not sure what to think about this one. we'll see, just hope they balance it right, so we don't pay more then we do now.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">3. The names of potions/poisons will become more streamlined and understandable to the alchemist's customers.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">sounds good.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">4. There will be a shorter list of effects that potions/poisons can do but they will all be useful to the right customer.</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">sounds good too. i looked at the post and at the effects listed. the debuffs sound like they are now more worthwile to get, not just for special occasions. vitality breach sounds pretty good too. and what sticks out: 'poison based DD'. it seems they heard our call for pure DD :smileyhappy:</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#ffff00">5. There will no longer be Rare potions/poisons."</font></div><div><font color="#ffff00"></font> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">well, whatever. can live with it. as long as they don't take the stun poison away i'm fine :smileyhappy: and it's in the poison effect list, so it seems all is cool.</font><hr></div><div> </div><div> </div><div><font color="#33ccff">doesn't make me panic yet. i'll first have a look on how they implement it. if it's no good, it's soon enough to start complaining when we see how it works out :smileywink:</font></div><div> </div><div>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</div></blockquote>

[Bayler_x]

They're not getting rid of rare poison and potions after all.  That was the dev's original stance, but there was a big outcry from the alchemist community, and so Beghn figured out a way to keep them.<div></div>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:They're not getting rid of rare poison and potions after all.  That was the dev's original stance, but there was a big outcry from the alchemist community, and so Beghn figured out a way to keep them.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>ah, ok. well, tbh, i think it wouldn't have hurt the alchemists as much as they feared. if no rare ones would have been around, but the crafted still noticable better then the npc ones, rogues and predators probably would have just bought those, therefore still giving the alchys business.</p><p>---------------------------<a target="_self" href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[KdB]

<div>Personally, I'm stocking up with the existing poisons. With the poison damage that rangers already do, I see no way the new ones will be better than the old ones. Only way to go is nerf-wards. </div>

[Jeris Nefz]

<div></div>As a 60 ranger/alchy, I am a bit worried about the changes with this.  With just about 1 week left before release, NO RECIPES (other than the ones that have already went live) have made it to beta.  We don't know how good or bad these will be.  They may make them uber or they may stink.  No one knows what kind of effects that they have (and what kind of damage they will do). We will just have to wait and see.  I am trying to give SOE the benefit of the doubt, but with no info, it's certainly hard to do.   

[Jay]

<div></div>Stock up. What we have now is not going away - your vials won't vanish - and I'm not going to blithely assume everything will be splendid after the change. My Adeste's Disruption is a known quantity, so I'm stockpiling it now. No reason to wait and see and then find myself stuck with crummy poisons while we wait weeks or months for the fixes to be fixed.

[Bayler_x]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div>Stock up. What we have now is not going away - your vials won't vanish - and I'm not going to blithely assume everything will be splendid after the change. My Adeste's Disruption is a known quantity, so I'm stockpiling it now. No reason to wait and see and then find myself stuck with crummy poisons while we wait weeks or months for the fixes to be fixed.<hr></blockquote>A wise precaution.  I feel the same.  Plus I've got a ton of glass bottles to go through.</span><div></div>

[Cael]

<div></div><div></div><p>Yeah, Ive got i think alot of adestes and a whole lot of phantasmic</p><p>They are in my fall out shelter, with the bottled water and dehydrated food</p><p>Oh, and of course I will be getting more before the changes</p><p>Message Edited by Caelum on <span class="date_text">02-14-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:25 PM</span></p>

[Bayler_x]

I can't decide, with my limited crafting time, to make poisons to stockpile, or to make poisons to sell to stockpilers.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Deml]

<div>Assuming the server transfer went through without too many hickups, Jeris is getting my order for stockpiling tonight. hehe  I have some stashed away now, but more is always better.  Plus I plan on going through lots of poisons and arrows the first week the expansion comes out.</div>

[Jeris Nefz]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Demlar wrote:<div>Assuming the server transfer went through without too many hickups, Jeris is getting my order for stockpiling tonight. hehe  I have some stashed away now, but more is always better.  Plus I plan on going through lots of poisons and arrows the first week the expansion comes out.</div><hr></blockquote>Sweet!  Now I can stockpile and sell to stockpilers!  :smileyvery-happy:

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>jarlaxle888 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Bayler_xev wrote:They're not getting rid of rare poison and potions after all.  That was the dev's original stance, but there was a big outcry from the alchemist community, and so Beghn figured out a way to keep them.<div></div><hr></blockquote><p>ah, ok. well, tbh, i think it wouldn't have hurt the alchemists as much as they feared. if no rare ones would have been around, but the crafted still noticable better then the npc ones, rogues and predators probably would have just bought those, therefore still giving the alchys business.</p><hr></blockquote>On AB, the most populous server prior to the mergers and thus the most saturated market (which the mergers will probably have, too, after the dust settles), T6 common crafted poison had been selling for about 50s -or less- over the price of just the fuels to make it.  If you purchased foxglove at broker rates, you would have been -losing- about 25s or more per poison.  And that's with the high selling poison/disease debuff poison which is only available in the common.  The only profits have been in the rares.But... since T7 poisons and potions haven't made it to Beta yet (though they were directly promised by last weekend... and all other crafts have their recipes including imbues and the writs for T6 and T7 are done and...), after my momentary resurgence of optimism with the direct statement (via IM) from Beghn that the poison and potion recipes would be up -last- weekend, I am more convinced alchemists are the carpenters of T7 but with the addition of not even getting common recipes.  At this point, I have no reason not to think we might not get them until the next expansion or even later.. if ever. The rest of the tradeskill revamp hasn't occured yet.  When it does, poisons and potions will be removed.  They -might- be added back in with a different form, but I'm not holding my breath any longer.</span></div>

[Jay]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div><span>At this point, I have no reason not to think we might not get them until the next expansion or even later.. if ever. The rest of the tradeskill revamp hasn't occured yet.  When it does, poisons and potions will be removed.  They -might- be added back in with a different form, but I'm not holding my breath any longer.</span></div><hr></blockquote>...Huh?

[Rijacki]

<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div><span>At this point, I have no reason not to think we might not get them until the next expansion or even later.. if ever. The rest of the tradeskill revamp hasn't occured yet.  When it does, poisons and potions will be removed.  They -might- be added back in with a different form, but I'm not holding my breath any longer.</span></div><hr></blockquote>...Huh?<hr></blockquote>The poisons you now know in T1 to T6 will no longer exist as recipes once the full tradeskill revamp is in place.  There will be new poison recipes instead of the current ones. I have gotten news that poisons and potions finally appeared on Beta for T7.  The cost per proc to craft will be -at a minimum- 600 times more than it is currently and that's only if the T7 fuel remains the same cost as the T6 fuel.  Yes, 600 times more expensive in fuel costs alone.Unless it changes from the news I just got (I am not on Beta, but I have no reason to believe my news is erroneous), one combine creates a maximum of 10 charges.  Each charge is a SINGLE proc and is consumed like an arrow.  The charges do stack to a total of 20. Currently 1 combine makes a maximum of 7 charges but each charge, of a damage poison, has the potential to proc 200 times for a total maximum proc potential of 1400.  Further, 1 loam can produce a maximum of 3 baubles each with a maximum of 7 charges which means a maximum of 21 charges (4200 potential procs for, as an example Adeste) per rare loam.  So, additionally, the production per rare is less than 1/3 current.Remind me why I should be optimistic...Several Alchemists, myself included, lobbied hard over the past year to drive down the cost to craft per dose/proc not only because we wanted something sellable, but we wanted to be able to provide value to poison using classes.  We were given the "bone" of more procs per dose after the fight to increase the dose per combine wasn't going to increase past 7 (which we had to fight for, too, intially).</span><div></div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"The poisons you now know in T1 to T6 will no longer exist as recipes once the full tradeskill revamp is in place.  There will be new poison recipes instead of the current ones. I have gotten news that poisons and potions finally appeared on Beta for T7.  The cost per proc to craft will be -at a minimum- 600 times more than it is currently and that's only if the T7 fuel remains the same cost as the T6 fuel.  Yes, 600 times more expensive in fuel costs alone.Unless it changes from the news I just got (I am not on Beta, but I have no reason to believe my news is erroneous), one combine creates a maximum of 10 charges.  Each charge is a SINGLE proc and is consumed like an arrow.  The charges do stack to a total of 20. Currently 1 combine makes a maximum of 7 charges but each charge, of a damage poison, has the potential to proc 200 times for a total maximum proc potential of 1400.  Further, 1 loam can produce a maximum of 3 baubles each with a maximum of 7 charges which means a maximum of 21 charges (4200 potential procs for, as an example Adeste) per rare loam.  So, additionally, the production per rare is less than 1/3 current.Remind me why I should be optimistic...Several Alchemists, myself included, lobbied hard over the past year to drive down the cost to craft per dose/proc not only because we wanted something sellable, but we wanted to be able to provide value to poison using classes.  We were given the "bone" of more procs per dose after the fight to increase the dose per combine wasn't going to increase past 7 (which we had to fight for, too, intially)."</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">SOE must really hate Poison, Alchemists, and any class remotely associated with them.</font></div>

[MoonglumHMV]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<span><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Rijacki wrote:<div><span>At this point, I have no reason not to think we might not get them until the next expansion or even later.. if ever. The rest of the tradeskill revamp hasn't occured yet.  When it does, poisons and potions will be removed.  They -might- be added back in with a different form, but I'm not holding my breath any longer.</span></div><hr></blockquote>...Huh?<hr></blockquote>The poisons you now know in T1 to T6 will no longer exist as recipes once the full tradeskill revamp is in place.  There will be new poison recipes instead of the current ones. I have gotten news that poisons and potions finally appeared on Beta for T7.  The cost per proc to craft will be -at a minimum- 600 times more than it is currently and that's only if the T7 fuel remains the same cost as the T6 fuel.  Yes, 600 times more expensive in fuel costs alone.Unless it changes from the news I just got (I am not on Beta, but I have no reason to believe my news is erroneous), one combine creates a maximum of 10 charges.  <font color="#ffff00">Each charge is a SINGLE proc and is consumed like an arrow</font>.  The charges do stack to a total of 20. Currently 1 combine makes a maximum of 7 charges but each charge, of a damage poison, has the potential to proc 200 times for a total maximum proc potential of 1400.  Further, 1 loam can produce a maximum of 3 baubles each with a maximum of 7 charges which means a maximum of 21 charges (4200 potential procs for, as an example Adeste) per rare loam.  So, additionally, the production per rare is less than 1/3 current.Remind me why I should be optimistic...Several Alchemists, myself included, lobbied hard over the past year to drive down the cost to craft per dose/proc not only because we wanted something sellable, but we wanted to be able to provide value to poison using classes.  We were given the "bone" of more procs per dose after the fight to increase the dose per combine wasn't going to increase past 7 (which we had to fight for, too, intially).</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I'm fairly certain that that is not correct...and if I find the DEV post I'll link it...My understanding was that each poison was one charge, stackable up to 20, and still did proc 200 times.</p><p>EDIT: <a target="_blank" href="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8870#M8870">http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/eq2/board/message?board.id=a13&message.id=8870#M8870</a></p><p><font color="#ffff00">Poisons will have one charge not proc.  So a stack of 10 poisons would be something similar to this.  1 Potions has 200 procs on it.  So the stack of 10 would have 2000 procs on it.</font></p><p>Message Edited by MoonglumHMV on <span class="date_text">02-15-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:22 PM</span></p>

[Fennir]

Yeah uh... I'm pretty sure that if one applied charge of poison is dropping after proccing once, it's a bug that will be fixed before it's patched Live.<div></div>

[Rijacki]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Yeah uh... I'm pretty sure that if one applied charge of poison is dropping after proccing once, it's a bug that will be fixed before it's patched Live.<div></div><hr></blockquote>It's no longer a buff, it is a single use consumable, no procs.  IF that's a bug, IF that gets addressed in the few days before this all goes Live, IF they fix the recipes that don't work, IF...IF it is supposed to be 200 procs per dose:Current - 8.5 fuel (T6 and using apothocary) for max 21 dosesNew - 4 fuel for max 10 dosesThat's still just over double the cost to craft the same number of doses... for common.</span></div>

[Fennir]

Yeah, I may not agree with the devs all the time, but I'm 100% positive they're not going to give us a poison charge that applies a buff that procs once.  I'm going to continue to assume the 200 procs per charge will remain constant until I hear otherwise from a dev, which hasn't happened yet.Using your numbers and assuming 1 application will = 200 procs yields the old way giving 494 procs per fuel used, and the new method will give 500 procs per fuel used.So isn't that actually better?Sure it may get more expensive going up a tier because of multiplied fuel costs, but that's the way the game goes. I'm sure plat is a lot easier to come by in T7.<div></div>