Nerf Me? no no no Nerf You!

[Saihung23]

<div>hello folks,</div><div> </div><div>    dont mind the lack of capitals in this post.  i just want to make sure that everyone understands i am not going off here.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>    recently,and not for the first  <u>or</u> last time we have had a nerf to one of our abilities.  stream of arrows.  while the nerf has not destroyed our class it has certainly created stryfe where none existed.  and while many of us do not play rangers because we have had a longtime association of some sort with the class, some of us do. </div><div> </div><div>    i know of many rangers who play because they want to be top dps in the game, feeling like that will help for raid groups or what not...people have many many different reasons for rolling a ranger.  none of them are any more right or wrong than any other reason.</div><div> </div><div>    i feel, like others...feel that this isnt the last nerf or the last change to our character.  i also feel like this is one of the less intrusive changes to our class.  our class will always be changed, like every other class, and likely it will be when you feel like you have finally become comfortable about your class.  it is murphy's law...for most mmo's it is true.</div><div>    noone wants to stifle your freedom of expression, what most of us would like to see is a more constructive expression of that freedom.  no soe rants, rather a thread that is conducive to fresh thoughts ideas and examples of what effects the change is having on us as a class.  screaming about changes only get you ignored even when a good idea is hidden in there somewhere.</div><div> </div><div>    there are methods to the madness that is ranger calmness.  you may see us meekly accepting the changes to our class while i see us stoically standing by our favorite class. </div><div> </div><div>     one of the most important things i have learned as a player and a poster on the forums is that being concise and civilized in your posts gets you unseen respect from a moderator and the devs alike.</div><div> </div><div>     let me ask this...who do you think brings issues to the devs that are thought to be important for them...if i had to guess it would be the mods.  they dont just remove innapropriate threads.  so as to not break soe forum policy, i will not name names, but i have discussions with mods both when posting in a decent manner and when posting in a poor manner.  which do you think was more satisfying as it seemed to generate more discussion about my issues...posting in a decent manner.  not generating a flame filled thread allowed the mod to talk with me without first chastising me for being over the top.  In all actuality the mod only contacted me on the poorly written and thought out post to tell me that it was too incensing and would only generate flames.  he was totally right.</div><div> </div><div>   those of you who think that change can only be had the way that many wizards and coercers were handling are wrong...look at how the devs handled us after lu13.  we talked for months about what things we wanted to see, what changes we thought we could use, where the balance issues might be....</div><div> </div><div>    and yet for a flanders, we encouraged change, and we became top tier dps like we should have been all along. </div><div> </div><div>    That I consider 100% success on our part....so dont let the first of many changes you will see in your eq2 life make you become a vitriolic insulting poster.</div><div> </div><div>    You are a ranger and the community expects more from you.</div><div> </div><div>Saihung</div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div><font color="#cc0033">I'm sorry if the changes have caused strife.  I just want my class to be where they said it is supposed to be.  Hopefully SOE can accomplish this with a light hand.  I doubt it though.</font></div>

[Grign]

<div></div><p>/shrug, yeah the changes are kinda lame seeing as here we are 2 years into a game that still feels like beta due to the massive changes they keep making but regardless, the recent nerfs we got are hardly earth-shattering.  If anything, they have made me get unlazy and start to use more strategy when fighting.  So what if mobs that took 15 seconds to kill now take 18 to 20 seconds?  My dps is still massive and stun poison still works.  When they make the poison changes, that's when I am going to get real worried.  As for now, I am still hell on wheels when I turn on the dps and I can still solo roost and other instances no problem, it just requires a bit more thinking, strategy, luck and some patience to do.  My advice to everyone is to hang in there, adjust, adapt, and overcome.  Don't become that which you detest when you read posts on these boards, aka a whiner.</p><p>Helspawn, Ranger Oggokk 60</p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div><font color="#cc0033">I'm sorry if the changes have caused strife.  I just want my class to be where they said it is supposed to be.  Hopefully SOE can accomplish this with a light hand.  I doubt it though.</font></div><hr></blockquote><p>Whats your class BtilTheMage?  Somehow, I dont think it is a ranger [Removed for Content]</p><p>But I hope the best for you anyhow <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I am tiring of this forum today...I dont like what I woke up to today in the ranger forums...especially considering that on two raids, 3 groups, and much soloing I havent had SoA give me a problem.  I come here and see that apparently the sky is falling and aliens have taken over the whitehouse. </p><p>I also find it funny that you mention in your post that since wizrds are above rangers in the tier one designation that rangers should do less (they are both tier one...what does anything matter after that..).  Please dont take that the wrong way, youve been very nice in the forums (dont know why you are arguing for wizard changes here though).  I just tire of the number junkies...not that you are one, who knows. </p><p>I generally take most of my ideas and /feedback them, or ideas I see on the forums and do the same thing.  Maybe it does something maybe it doesnt.....I do know that when someone (I think Jay42) mentioned quivers, we had a talk (brief though it may have been) on quivers.  I /feedbacked what was hashed from that thread.  I haveno clue if that worked..</p><p>Know what nevermind...I am tired of this, so tired of it.  I have more things to worry about than this....my server is merging today...who knows if I will even have a ranger after today <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I just hope that anyone who wants to rant and rave about the changes do it in their own threads and not in other peoples who dont invite it.</p><p>I have to go.  Peace Mage. Be well</p><p> </p><p>****edit****  Helspawn you rule.  Thanks for the affirmation.  Peace to you Ranger.</p><p>Message Edited by Saihung23 on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:53 PM</span></p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<div>hello folks,</div><div> </div><div>    dont mind the lack of capitals in this post.  i just want to make sure that everyone understands i am not going off here.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>    recently,and not for the first  <u>or</u> last time we have had a nerf to one of our abilities.  stream of arrows.  while the nerf has not destroyed our class it has certainly created stryfe where none existed.  and while many of us do not play rangers because we have had a longtime association of some sort with the class, some of us do. </div><div> </div><div>    i know of many rangers who play because they want to be top dps in the game, feeling like that will help for raid groups or what not...people have many many different reasons for rolling a ranger.  none of them are any more right or wrong than any other reason.</div><div> </div><div>    i feel, like others...feel that this isnt the last nerf or the last change to our character.  i also feel like this is one of the less intrusive changes to our class.  our class will always be changed, like every other class, and likely it will be when you feel like you have finally become comfortable about your class.  it is murphy's law...for most mmo's it is true.</div><div>    noone wants to stifle your freedom of expression, what most of us would like to see is a more constructive expression of that freedom.  no soe rants, rather a thread that is conducive to fresh thoughts ideas and examples of what effects the change is having on us as a class.  screaming about changes only get you ignored even when a good idea is hidden in there somewhere.</div><div> </div><div>    there are methods to the madness that is ranger calmness.  you may see us meekly accepting the changes to our class while i see us stoically standing by our favorite class. </div><div> </div><div>     one of the most important things i have learned as a player and a poster on the forums is that being concise and civilized in your posts gets you unseen respect from a moderator and the devs alike.</div><div> </div><div>     let me ask this...who do you think brings issues to the devs that are thought to be important for them...if i had to guess it would be the mods.  they dont just remove innapropriate threads.  so as to not break soe forum policy, i will not name names, but i have discussions with mods both when posting in a decent manner and when posting in a poor manner.  which do you think was more satisfying as it seemed to generate more discussion about my issues...posting in a decent manner.  not generating a flame filled thread allowed the mod to talk with me without first chastising me for being over the top.  In all actuality the mod only contacted me on the poorly written and thought out post to tell me that it was too incensing and would only generate flames.  he was totally right.</div><div> </div><div>   those of you who think that change can only be had the way that many wizards and coercers were handling are wrong...look at how the devs handled us after lu13.  we talked for months about what things we wanted to see, what changes we thought we could use, where the balance issues might be....</div><div> </div><div>    and yet for a flanders, we encouraged change, and we became top tier dps like we should have been all along. </div><div> </div><div>    That I consider 100% success on our part....so dont let the first of many changes you will see in your eq2 life make you become a vitriolic insulting poster.</div><div> </div><div>    You are a ranger and the community expects more from you.</div><div> </div><div>Saihung</div><hr></blockquote><p>Very well thought out post.  You do raise some good points and I do share your love for the ranger class.   I do believe that even a foul bleeped out rant has its place in a community cause that is raw emotion that is not edited.  I can learn more about how a person feels by reading a good rant, than by reading a edited for public consumption post that tip toes around how they feel.  I can tell you feel very strongly about Rangers and I appreciate that.</p><p>As everyone can probably tell I don't care about trend.  I speak my mind even if not invited to do so :smileywink:</p>

[BtilTheMage]

<div></div><div>"Whats your class BtilTheMage?"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Warlock</font></div><div><font color="#cc0033"></font> </div><div>"dont know why you are arguing for wizard<font color="#cc0033">(Sorcerers in general actually)</font> changes here though"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">I responded to a statement on Ranger utility and have just kind of been hanging around since then I guess.</font></div><p>Message Edited by BtilTheMage on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:57 AM</span></p>

[King Leor]

<div></div><p>I dont mind it all too much. It is really bad for soloing now but at least they did fix the amount of time it takes to actually start shooting arrows now :0)  We are still top DPS by far on any raid encouter too :0)  But would still be nice if they put it back to the way it was.</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</p>

[ilucife]

1)dude your complaining that a ranged attack, is now a ranged only attack (ie can be used at melee range anymore). swashies got the same "nerf". the bright side is that its instant now. want to talk about skills being broke, browse the forums, SoA isnt broken. swashies and dirges have a skill that does HALF the damage its supposed to do, and its on a 3 min timer (1 for dirges).2)we have 2 rangers in our guild that ALWAYS post higher dps numbers than our wiz, and our wizz isnt a bad player.<div></div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"1)dude your complaining that a ranged attack, is now a ranged only attack (ie can be used at melee range anymore). swashies got the same "nerf". the bright side is that its instant now. want to talk about skills being broke, browse the forums, SoA isnt broken. swashies and dirges have a skill that does HALF the damage its supposed to do, and its on a 3 min timer (1 for dirges).2)we have 2 rangers in our guild that ALWAYS post higher dps numbers than our wiz, and our wizz isnt a bad player."</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Agreed, Rangers are the last class that should be receiving buffs at this point, as are Summoners.  Sorcerers, both Wizards and Warlocks, need to be put at the top where they belong.</font></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><p>My god Btil, if you posted this much in the Wizard forums I bet you'd be fixed by now.</p><p> </p><p>And Nihuan, I think that is how you spell it...If you want to spout pure raw emotion, dont do it in other peoples threads...when I write a thread about a subject I dont expect it to be hijacked and turned into a flamefest.  Dont take this as me accusing you of doing that, but look at Demlar's thread that he talks about having turned into a flamefest.  That is where your pure raw emotion leads to...make a thread of your own and title it something or other about venting....dont use others spaces to vent your frustration.  I dont understand why it is hard to understand what it is about some of these posts make people immediately think...yep thats a whiny sounding post.</p><p>The dev's certainly wont take you seriously.  If you were a Dev...would you take a post such as that seriously?</p><p> </p>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"My god Btil, if you posted this much in the Wizard forums I bet you'd be fixed by now."</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc3333">You'd think so.  Doesn't seem to work though.</font></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr><p>The dev's certainly wont take you seriously.  If you were a Dev...would you take a post such as that seriously?</p><hr><p>that is a "iffy" question.</p><p>If I was running my own MMO and was worried about ideals, I.E. how I envisioned the game then I would listen to the community actively holding discussions on possible changes.</p><p>If I was a big capitalistic coroporation where the good of EQ fanbase is not a as high a priority as the bottom line was  then I would be just like we see in EQ today.   Sometimes I would post in the communities showing interest in peoples posts just to "show" we care.</p><p>After every patch EQ is made to look and feel more and more like wow which is a popular buisness model for modern MMorgs.  For the most part changes are not made with existing players in mind but in who they can attract.</p><p>I just call things like I see it.</p></blockquote> 

[Teksun]

GREAT post Sai. Thanks!!<div></div>

[Mrhan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Grignak wrote:<div></div><p>/shrug, yeah the changes are kinda lame seeing as here we are 2 years into a game that still feels like beta due to the massive changes they keep making but regardless, the recent nerfs we got are hardly earth-shattering.  If anything, they have made me get unlazy and start to use more strategy when fighting.  So what if mobs that took 15 seconds to kill now take 18 to 20 seconds?  My dps is still massive and stun poison still works.  When they make the poison changes, that's when I am going to get real worried.  As <strong>for now, I am still hell on wheels when I turn on the dps and I can still solo roost and other instances no problem, it just requires a bit more thinking, strategy, luck and some patience to do</strong>.  My advice to everyone is to hang in there, adjust, adapt, and overcome.  Don't become that which you detest when you read posts on these boards, aka a whiner.</p><p>Helspawn, Ranger Oggokk 60</p><hr></blockquote>aye and the bolded is why you should be nerfed... luckily they are taking away poison on bows now, so yeah we should finaly seeing some similarity in t1 dps<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[leafnin]

<div></div><div>It's funny how alot of these people come in here gloating over a nerf or preaching how their interpretation of what was generally sketched out in early LU13 testing is gospel.  You can make whatever argument you want on the matter.  The fact of the matter is your [Removed for Content] and you want to take it out on someone.  Wizards blamed Warlocks for the same stuff your spouting now preLU13.  Now it's being done to Rangers/Summoners.  It wouldn't matter what class most of you would still use the same tactics to get what you want.  This isn't about fair or promised this is about you wanting what you want balanced or not.  As long as some people are 'the best' they don't care about whether others are having fun.  That's why the majority of us play this class pre and post LU13 for the fun.  You didn't see the majority of us going around attacking Wizzies/Warlocks pre LU13 or tanks for out dpsing us in raids it's pretty much as was explained above we put in good feedback and got changed.  I'm sorry if your not having fun, but taking it out on those who are cause you wish to take their place isn't fun for us.  Again I'm sorry if the game isn't what you want it to be post feedback and hope it's what most of us did preLU13.  Good Luck and Good Hunting.</div><div> </div><div>Falcon</div><div>60 Ranger</div><div>Kithicor      </div><p>Message Edited by leafnin on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:53 AM</span></p>

[BtilTheMage]

<div></div><div><font color="#cc0033">It's obviously a conspiracy to whine everyone to death.  <em>Obviously</em>.</font></div><div><font color="#cc0033"></font> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Let the thread die already, I'm using the combat forums now.</font></div><p>Message Edited by BtilTheMage on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:15 PM</span></p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div></div><div><font color="#cc0033">It's obviously a conspiracy to whine everyone to death.  <em>Obviously</em>.</font></div><div><font color="#cc0033"></font> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">Let the thread die already, I'm using the combat forums now.</font></div><p>Message Edited by BtilTheMage on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:15 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>Good.  If you dont understand how rude you were for even coming into the Rangers Forum to preach and argue with people about your beloved class then you never will.  I thank you for leaving and want to say that when you are playing a ranger and have any questions regarding that or suggestions for our class that dont involve a wizards role in groups and raids, then you will likely be welcomed with open arms.</p><p>And I am sorry if I was hammering you with replies but every thread I was reading in the ranger forums had a Btilthemage wizard response and argument in it.  It gets very old.</p>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"Good.  If you dont understand how rude you were for even coming into the Rangers Forum to preach and argue with people about your beloved class then you never will"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">As I've said before I was simply commenting on the statement about Sorcerer utility being enough to justify them not being able to maintain meaningful tier 1 DPS.  The argument was a result of things being pulled into the argument that I had no intentions of commenting on in the first place.  Since it's over now I suppose it doesn't matter, but you don't understand how frustrating it is to hear that claim day after day when you know from firsthand experience it simply isn't true.  Actually, you probably do, in which case you can see where I'm coming from.  Oh well. Thread over.  Have a good one, Rangers.</font></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div>"Good.  If you dont understand how rude you were for even coming into the Rangers Forum to preach and argue with people about your beloved class then you never will"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">As I've said before I was simply commenting on the statement about Sorcerer utility being enough to justify them not being able to maintain meaningful tier 1 DPS.  The argument was a result of things being pulled into the argument that I had no intentions of commenting on in the first place.  Since it's over now I suppose it doesn't matter, but you don't understand how frustrating it is to hear that claim day after day when you know from firsthand experience it simply isn't true.  Actually, you probably do, in which case you can see where I'm coming from.  Oh well. Thread over.  Have a good one, Rangers.</font></div><hr></blockquote><p>Youre one of those last word people arent you [Removed for Content]</p><p>Good Luck Btil</p><p>Saihung</p>

[Racmo]

<div></div><p>Mrhanky said above...</p><p><strong>aye and the bolded is why you should be nerfed... luckily they are taking away poison on bows now, so yeah we should finaly seeing some similarity in t1 dps<img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" height="16" width="16"></strong></p><p>Now, I haven't heard that.  If that's true, then it's a 30-45% nerf to DPS on my ranger.  Can someone verify that?</p><p> </p><p>On another note, I have never understood people that come to gloat about nerfs to another class.  I honestly think they're missing something in their lives or were beaten to often as a child.</p><p> </p><p>Racmoor</p><p>37 Ranger</p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div></div><p>Mrhanky said above...</p><p><strong>aye and the bolded is why you should be nerfed... luckily they are taking away poison on bows now, so yeah we should finaly seeing some similarity in t1 dps<img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" height="16" width="16"></strong></p><p>Now, I haven't heard that.  If that's true, then it's a 30-45% nerf to DPS on my ranger.  Can someone verify that?</p><p> </p><p>On another note, I have never understood people that come to gloat about nerfs to another class.  I honestly think they're missing something in their lives or were beaten to often as a child.</p><p> </p><p>Racmoor</p><p>37 Ranger</p><hr></blockquote><p>The percentage of nerf depends on your gear.  If you have accumilated gear with the knowledge they proc off your bow then yes you may see simular numbers above.</p><p>If you don't have proccing weopons and armor then no the number would be the same, may even have a little higher dps as poison procs may be kicking off more now.</p>

[Berek_IronAxe]

<div></div><div>I find it Rude and completely uncalled for a different class to come into a forum and applaud changes that hurt another class.  It is not productive, inflamitory and completely uncalled for - all that said I dont understand why Wizards are complaining.  I know this will invite anger and flames but I have a Ranger and Wizard (It is my escape from no DPS Tank - lol).  Both my Wizard and Ranger have Adept/Master spells on their main attack and buff spells/CA's.  My Wizard puts out 100-300 more damage per attack.  Now I can comment that I do not use the Rare poisons - I use the cheap merchant stuff but hey I am doing fine with it and I do not Raid yet with this toon.</div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Berek_IronAxe wrote:<div></div><div>I find it Rude and completely uncalled for a different class to come into a forum and applaud changes that hurt another class.  It is not productive, inflamitory and completely uncalled for - all that said I dont understand why Wizards are complaining.  I know this will invite anger and flames but I have a Ranger and Wizard (It is my escape from no DPS Tank - lol).  Both my Wizard and Ranger have Adept/Master spells on their main attack and buff spells/CA's.  My Wizard puts out 100-300 more damage per attack.  Now I can comment that I do not use the Rare poisons - I use the cheap merchant stuff but hey I am doing fine with it and I do not Raid yet with this toon.</div><hr></blockquote>Thank you for the support Berek, it is nice when someone adds to the forum community...those things just show what level their maturity is at...regardless of age.

[Dirtgirl]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div></div><p>Mrhanky said above...</p><p><strong>aye and the bolded is why you should be nerfed...<font color="#ff3333"> <font size="5">luckily they are taking away poison on bows now</font></font>, so yeah we should finaly seeing some similarity in t1 dps<img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-happy.gif" height="16" width="16"></strong></p><p>Now, I haven't heard that.  If that's true, then it's a 30-45% nerf to DPS on my ranger.  Can someone verify that?........</p><p>Racmoor</p><p>37 Ranger</p><hr></blockquote><p><font color="#99ff99">?????Ummmmm, is this what you were talking about, Racmoor?</font></p><p> </p><blockquote><hr>Racmoor wrote:<div></div><p><font color="#ff3333">On another note, I have never understood people that come to gloat about nerfs to another class.  I honestly think they're missing something in their lives or were beaten to often as a child.</font><font color="#99ff99">  (I actually think it means they weren't beaten ENOUGH. Time out is destroying our society) :smileywink:</font></p><p> </p><p>Racmoor</p><p>37 Ranger</p><hr></blockquote><p> </p>

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Berek_IronAxe wrote:<div></div><div>.I dont understand why Wizards are complaining.  I know this will invite anger and flames but I have a Ranger and Wizard (It is my escape from no DPS Tank - lol).  Both my Wizard and Ranger have Adept/Master spells on their main attack and buff spells/CA's.  My Wizard puts out 100-300 more damage per attack.  Now I can comment that I do not use the Rare poisons - I use the cheap merchant stuff but hey I am doing fine with it and I do not Raid yet with this toon.</div><hr></blockquote><p>comparing ca's to spell's is apples to oranges, you would have to compare overall dps, in groups and in raids.  rangers always come out on top against wizards.  You dont understand because you dont raid.  posions are about 35% of a scouts dps.  Even if wizards got some kind of equivilant we still wouldn't be at ranger dps. </p><p>No one calls for nerfs, I never have.  I've been saying for some time sorc need a boost.  We didn't get any really high dmg spells in 50-60 and that could explain some of the gap, but some wizards are parsing 50-80% less dps than comparable rangers, and the 2 new spells we got in 60-70 for dof might bring us up to what rangers do without poisions.  we'll just have to wait and see. </p>

[Saihung23]

<span><blockquote><hr>IllusiveThoughts wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Berek_IronAxe wrote:<div></div><div>.I dont understand why Wizards are complaining.  I know this will invite anger and flames but I have a Ranger and Wizard (It is my escape from no DPS Tank - lol).  Both my Wizard and Ranger have Adept/Master spells on their main attack and buff spells/CA's.  My Wizard puts out 100-300 more damage per attack.  Now I can comment that I do not use the Rare poisons - I use the cheap merchant stuff but hey I am doing fine with it and I do not Raid yet with this toon.</div><hr></blockquote><p>comparing ca's to spell's is apples to oranges, you would have to compare overall dps, in groups and in raids.  rangers always come out on top against wizards.  You dont understand because you dont raid.  posions are about <font color="#ff33ff">35%</font> of a scouts dps.  Even if wizards got some kind of equivilant we still wouldn't be at ranger dps. </p><p>No one calls for nerfs, I never have.  I've been saying for some time sorc need a boost.  We didn't get any really high dmg spells in 50-60 and that could explain some of the gap, but some wizards are parsing <font color="#ff33ff">50-80%</font> less dps than comparable rangers, <font color="#ff33ff">and the 2 new spells we got in 60-70 for dof might bring us up to what rangers do without poisions.</font>  we'll just have to wait and see. </p><hr></blockquote>50-80% [Removed for Content]...I dont believe that number is big enough lets make it 10-100% just for fun kk?          But let me guess, because our poisons account for 35% of the damage output and the discrepancy according to your numbers is bigger...you think they need to nerf poisons....so that wizards will then only be 15%-25% lower in DPS than a ranger.  Which can only mean that then wizards have to go back and study us rangers again to find someplace to howl for a nerf? hey maybe they can just take away our weapons.  I bet that would let wizards pass us on the DPS chart.Youre polite in your argument but it just doesnt hold water with me...as I think the numbers were pulled out of thin air.  And to say that no one calls for nerfs is total and complete BS.  For reference on "no one" calling for nerfs please see Btilthemage posts 1-89.  You dont need to go far as they are mostly here in the ranger forums.  Btilthemage has a bow envy problem and comes here to look at all the pretty bows.BTW no offense intended, you are polite...but I just wholeheartedly disagree with the numbers presented (except maybe the 35% from poison...its more like 30 but not a big enough difference there.).Saihung Magehunter</span><div></div>

[AratornCalahn]

Is anyone actualy getting nerfed?I have, is anyone else?<div></div>

[tweety1972]

<div></div>It should also be pointed out that these people are the best in our class and have found just about every possible way to kill things, since that is what our class does.

[IllusiveThoughts]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Saihung23 wrote:<span><blockquote><p>comparing ca's to spell's is apples to oranges, you would have to compare overall dps, in groups and in raids.  rangers always come out on top against wizards.  You dont understand because you dont raid.  posions are about <font color="#ff33ff">35%</font> of a scouts dps.  Even if wizards got some kind of equivilant we still wouldn't be at ranger dps. </p><p>No one calls for nerfs, I never have.  I've been saying for some time sorc need a boost.  We didn't get any really high dmg spells in 50-60 and that could explain some of the gap, but some wizards are parsing <font color="#ff33ff">50-80%</font> less dps than comparable rangers, <font color="#ff33ff">and the 2 new spells we got in 60-70 for dof might bring us up to what rangers do without poisions.</font>  we'll just have to wait and see. </p><hr></blockquote>50-80% [Removed for Content]...I dont believe that number is big enough lets make it 10-100% just for fun kk?          But let me guess, because our poisons account for 35% of the damage output and the discrepancy according to your numbers is bigger...you think they need to nerf poisons....so that wizards will then only be 15%-25% lower in DPS than a ranger.  Which can only mean that then wizards have to go back and study us rangers again to find someplace to howl for a nerf? hey maybe they can just take away our weapons.  I bet that would let wizards pass us on the DPS chart.Youre polite in your argument but it just doesnt hold water with me...as I think the numbers were pulled out of thin air.  And to say that no one calls for nerfs is total and complete BS.  For reference on "no one" calling for nerfs please see Btilthemage posts 1-89.  You dont need to go far as they are mostly here in the ranger forums.  Btilthemage has a bow envy problem and comes here to look at all the pretty bows.BTW no offense intended, you are polite...but I just wholeheartedly disagree with the numbers presented (except maybe the 35% from poison...its more like 30 but not a big enough difference there.).Saihung Magehunter</span><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>wow, just wow.  somehow you interpreted that i want poisins nerfed out of my post?  relax bud.</p><p>Your right and I was overzealous in my "no one calls for nerfs" I should rephrase that statement.  Mostly noobs and people who are bitter call for nerfs.  I play an assasin, and frankly I like where he sits.  I started playing one when i was being consistantly out dpsed by the pred classes as my wiz. </p><p>50-80% more is a valid range on raid targets, groups it can be closer depending on the group make up and what mobs are being fought and that mobs just die to fast.  I haven't made up this number, its not magical.  You guys really do have the potential to do double and more than our dps.</p><p>Frankly, i see where some of the hostility lies when wizards try to plea that we aren't doing t1 dps, because most of the time soe nerfs other classes instead of a boost.  If I only played a ranger, and was finally enjoying my class for the first time in a long time, I really really wouldn't want soe to mess with it, and if people started complaining about it I'd get defensive and worry about the class being unrightfully nerfed (which it seems has already started, with proc's posions...ect)</p>