Proc changes with LU19 from the Ranger perspective

[Deml]

<div></div><div><p><span><font color="#ffffff">Yesterday we all experienced LU19.  There were some very good things put in with this patch that a lot of people were looking forward to.  There were also some things put into the patch that were never mentioned in the notes.  February 2, 2006 was D-day for melee weapons proccing off bows.  It wasn't announced but it went live.  That's fine, I can live with it, adjust and move on.  We knew it was coming, although some of us may not have agreed with it or with the logic behind it, but as a whole the ranger community will accept it and move on I believe.  The reason for this post though is the OTHER proc changes that went live.</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff">As of LU19 the Cryptic Metallic Coat, Uktrl's Round Shield of Striking, Uktrl's Round Shield of Harmony no longer proc off of bows either.  Now, these items are highly sought after by Rangers for their magical procs.  All of them have the magic ability that on a successful attack you have X% chance to trigger their affect and damage your target.  These all go off when you HIT them mob and <strong><span>not</span></strong> when the mob hits you.  My question is this, why do these no longer work from bows?  Are procs only a melee only thing now?  Rangers get their offensive stance and poisons and that is suppose to counter the fact that no gear with procs will function for us?  This is all speculation as to why this change went in.  At the higher levels, especially 50+ and on raids, Rangers 99% of the time do <b>not</b> use melee attacks.<span>  </span>Our skills are all geared for us to do ranged damage and that’s what we do.<span>  </span>I find it hard to believe that the devs want nothing to proc from bows because that eliminates a good bit of gear that is “scout usable” from being something Rangers want.<span>  </span>Can a dev please respond and let us know what is up with procs.<span>  </span>Is all of this gear bugged or has all equipment been flagged to no longer proc from bow attacks?</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff">Thanks</font></span></p></div>

[4lta]

<div></div>i jus wanted to say thx soe for makin the last few months or raiding for all my uber gear completly worthless way to nerf a class! and make a fun game

[Zork Phobos]

<div></div><div></div><p>devs: your clear disdain for rangers comes shining through once more.  just play a ranger from 1-60 and then make changes? Cause its blazingly obvious no dev has made any serious attempt to play/understand rangers ever.</p><p>you leave us half broken for over a year after release. then finally you fix our arrow costs and make our lives better lvls 50-60, though, not surprisingly, we have little or no time to enjoy this reprieve and you set back to nerfing us again.</p><p>procs only work on melee weapons?</p><p>Message Edited by Truxker on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:46 AM</span></p>

[Deml]

<div>I never wanted this to be an attack/flame the dev's thread.  I hope to get some honest feedback from the dev team on what's going on with procs.  I never expected to stay at the absolute top of the DPS lists like we were, but I'm a bit confused on all the proc changes and things that happened yesterday.  Please don't flame the dev's in this thread.  Keep it clean and constructive so they will hopefully respond and give us some insight on what's going on.</div>

[Fennir]

Yeah, I would just like to know the rules.  It would help me decide whether to keep farming MotM for a robe/bp.<div></div>

[Zork Phobos]

<div>Why shouldnt we be at the top of the dps list? As I recall, thats exactly where the devs said we should be.</div><div> </div><div>But moreso, this calls to question their absolute disregard for all the efforts of rangers accross all servers to play a class they love, even though they started broken. They create a game WITH NO FABLED BOWS WORTH [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</div>

[Zork Phobos]

<div></div><div>Why shouldnt we be at the top of the dps list? As I recall, thats exactly where the devs said we should be.</div><div> </div><div>But moreso, this calls to question their absolute disregard for all the efforts of rangers accross all servers to play a class they love, even though they started broken. They create a game WITH NO FABLED BOWS WORTH JACK and then when we figure out how to do good dps (ie, item procs using our bows) they nerf that too. but no, do they nerf it in the beginning? of course not, they nerf it over a year into the game when most rangers have spent their entire careers selecting items that will supplement their bugged dps.</div><div> </div><div>How can they justify the Uktrils shield not procing? it has ranged and piercing bonuses, uhh DUHHH is it a shield made for archery or isnt it?</div><div>How can they justify the Cryptic bp not procing? A good point is our poison and stances proc, whats the difference with a breastplate.</div><div> </div><div>No, the reason im [Removed for Content] is not so much the changes, as all things in eq change. its the complete and utter lack of intution they express when making those changes. Its not that they could care less what the changes will do, its that they dont even know what the changes will do. They are ranger ignorrant and should just leave our class alone if they cant put the time into learning about us.</div><p>Message Edited by Zork Phobos on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:24 PM</span></p>

[EverMan]

<div>Way to go Zork no dev will touch this thread with a 80 foot pole.</div>

[Deml]

<div>Ok, to clarify.  What I meant by the top DPS thing was that we all know we were far and away higher dps than other classes, or at least the other t1 dps classes.  Moving us to be more in line with them was coming and if you didn't expect that...i feel sorry for you.</div><div> </div><div>Zork, your posts of constantly lashing out at the dev's are what I was hoping to NOT have in this thread.  Post that in another thread please and keep this one free so maybe we can get a response from them.</div>

[Zork Phobos]

<div>Which further inundates sony with the holier than though mentality that is its real problem. They are so frickin detached from what the reality of their own game is (at least in the case of rangers) that they just make these sweeping arbitrary changes that every ranger on every server knows to be a huge mistake. This isnt a case of staying on top dps, ok i admit our dps was a bit over the top, but to change the fundamental way procs from our weapons and items work with our bows. Well thats just ridiculous. They wont post here? well thats their problem. Im not goign to suck up to them, when they need to be told they cant think straight. Play a ranger from 1 - 60 is all I have to say. Devs dont play rangers, they never have.</div>

[Fennir]

Thanks for ruining the thread, bro.<div></div>

[merula]

<div>Rangers are far and way the best dps class. Even with the weapon procs going away(notice I didn't say nerf) rangers will still be above the other t1 dps classes. As for the weapon/shield procs not working on ranged attacks anymore, that is just perception. It is my opinion that armor/shield/melee weapon procs should not proc with a ranged attack. Like someone stated in another thread, are you shooting your melee weapon/armor/shield like an arrow? If so that would suck to waste t6 fabled gear in one shot... But you are not so it shouldn't use that proc on ranged attacks.. Armor/shield procs should go off when you get hit. Melee procs should go off when you hit something with that weapon. Bow procs should go off when you use a ranged attack. I think poison procs should be able to go off for any of the previous three actions. But that is how I perceive it to be and evidently the devs as well. It just makes sense if you think about it. Someone else said in another thread that all procs no matter where they come from are 'part of my characters magic' (or something to that effect) and should be able to proc for anything. I disagree and the devs as well but again that is just opinion. There is no right answer. Be happy that you are the top dps class.</div><div> </div><div>Whoever said that rangers have been broken for months is right. You are way to overpowered compared to your sister class (Assassin). They are supposed to be doing the same dps but rangers outdo assassin's by 100-200 consistently. So you could say that rangers are broken or assassins are broken. Who knows. Just be happy that you can do mad dps away from those nasty AoE's. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div>

[Sulas]

Maybe Zork will do the honorable thing and delete his posts so the OP's point can be discussed.That or maybe Demlar will repost his point and this thread will just die.<div></div>

[dubbs]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>merula wrote:<div>Rangers are far and way the best dps class. Even with the weapon procs going away(notice I didn't say nerf) rangers will still be above the other t1 dps classes. As for the weapon/shield procs not working on ranged attacks anymore, that is just perception. It is my opinion that armor/shield/melee weapon procs should not proc with a ranged attack. Like someone stated in another thread, are you shooting your melee weapon/armor/shield like an arrow? If so that would suck to waste t6 fabled gear in one shot... But you are not so it shouldn't use that proc on ranged attacks.. <font color="#ffff00">Armor/shield procs should go off when you get hit</font>. Melee procs should go off when you hit something with that weapon. Bow procs should go off when you use a ranged attack. I think poison procs should be able to go off for any of the previous three actions. But that is how I perceive it to be and evidently the devs as well. It just makes sense if you think about it. Someone else said in another thread that all procs no matter where they come from are 'part of my characters magic' (or something to that effect) and should be able to proc for anything. I disagree and the devs as well but again that is just opinion. There is no right answer. Be happy that you are the top dps class.</div><div> </div><div>Whoever said that rangers have been broken for months is right. You are way to overpowered compared to your sister class (Assassin). They are supposed to be doing the same dps but rangers outdo assassin's by 100-200 consistently. So you could say that rangers are broken or assassins are broken. Who knows. Just be happy that you can do mad dps away from those nasty AoE's. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><hr></blockquote>Go away until you learn what we are talking about, you are in over your head.

[merula]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>dubbs wrote:<div></div>Go away until you learn what we are talking about, you are in over your head.<hr></blockquote>Easy there killer. I wasn't flaming or being rude. I was merely stating my opinion on the 'nerfs' and how I think they are good changes that will balance out rangers/assassins a bit better. If you don't like my opinions or what I have to say, then ignore me and don't reply. After all it is possible to listen to someone's opinion, disagree with it and still be civil.

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>merula wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>dubbs wrote:<div></div>Go away until you learn what we are talking about, you are in over your head.<hr></blockquote>Easy there killer. I wasn't flaming or being rude. I was merely stating my opinion on the 'nerfs' and how I think they are good changes that will balance out rangers/assassins a bit better. If you don't like my opinions or what I have to say, then ignore me and don't reply. After all it is possible to listen to someone's opinion, disagree with it and still be civil.<hr></blockquote>if you think the best way to fix assassins is to nerf other classes, then just get the h3ll out of the ranger forums... no one wants to hear that crap here.

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>Don't feed the Troll....

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackin_DeMaster wrote:<div></div>Don't feed the Troll....<hr></blockquote>Am I the troll? 

[Blackin_DeMast]

<div></div>No, but Merula is.  He is just trying to anger the ranger community.  Posting negative remarks in a forum of a class you don't play is by definition trolling.  As much as I hate we don't need to even acknolidge his comments because he obviously has no clue about rangers.

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Blackin_DeMaster wrote:<div></div>No, but Merula is.  He is just trying to anger the ranger community.  Posting negative remarks in a forum of a class you don't play is by definition trolling.  As much as I hate we don't need to even acknolidge his comments because he obviously has no clue about rangers.<hr></blockquote>exactly

[Giallolas]

<div></div><div>Wow, this is starting to looking like the Templar Forums that we affectionately call the "Viper's Nest".  Hi guys, although you will see that my main is a Templar, we have more Rangers in our guild than any other dps class and my RL bro plays one too.  We've talked at length about Ranger dps and how good it really was.  I wanted to post my thoughts on this for what it's worth.</div><div> </div><div>I will miss the extra dps as our guild relies heavily upon Rangers to take down our raid mobs quickly.  Being a Templar, I know the stunning disappointment that occurs when you're regularly nerfed or ignored by the Dev team.  I'm sorry for your loss.</div><div> </div><div>However, the Rangers I've been close to and myself also could see something coming down.  SOE is very focused on trying to make each class equal in one fashion or another.  They did this to the priest classes.  They did this to the heavy armor tank classes.  They've done this to the various casters.  Now they've come around to the Rangers again and tagged you guys.  The nerf is not welcome but still expected.  In my recent conversations with these Rangers they reluctantly have admitted that procs only make up a portion of their dps.  The majority comes from their combat arts.  This loss of extra procs hurts, but thankfully doesn't appear to destroy the class.  It appears you guys will still be the number one dps class out there, and can do so out of that aweful raid AoE.</div><div> </div><div>As my RL bro told me just today, even with this nerf his class is so much fun to play that this is a minor inconvenience at best.  I look forward to seeing you guys out there and really am sorry that this unexpected nerf got you guys this time.</div><div> </div><div>Sorry,</div><div> </div><p>Message Edited by Giallolas on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:46 PM</span></p>

[Hyyd]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Giallolas wrote:<div></div><div> </div><div> It appears you guys will still be the number one dps class out there, .</div><div> </div><div> </div><div><hr></div></blockquote><p>/nods</p><p>i was in GoAA and DMP last night as was doing over 1k dps with not great loot(no valian) and the othre guild ranger was doing over 1k and more then me with his valian and great gear</p><p>Message Edited by Hyydra on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:55 PM</span></p>

[Smi]

This patch has pretty much removed any sense of MMORPG achievement fun factor for me.  I utterly LOVED this game, but now, why should I bother raiding or doing quests?  I never would have finished my prismatic if I was the only class with nothing to gain from it.  Crafter rings blow away all loot rings, armor and weapons are meaningless on my character now....  I already have a valian bow..so basically there is ONE t5/6 item now worth bothering raiding for.  Once you have it, you're done.   Customizing procs and equipment is pretty much the end-game for every PvE MMORPG out there.  They have just removed that end-game for us.<div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Smirk wrote:This patch has pretty much removed any sense of MMORPG achievement fun factor for me.  I utterly LOVED this game, but now, why should I bother raiding or doing quests?  I never would have finished my prismatic if I was the only class with nothing to gain from it.  Crafter rings blow away all loot rings, armor and weapons are meaningless on my character now....  I already have a valian bow..so basically there is ONE t5/6 item now worth bothering raiding for.  Once you have it, you're done.   Customizing procs and equipment is pretty much the end-game for every PvE MMORPG out there.  They have just removed that end-game for us.<div></div><hr></blockquote>very valid points.. i have stopped playing/raiding my Ranger.. and i dont even have any of the end game loot.. but there is very little for scouts..its all for tanks or healers.. so thats what I rerolled... a tank</span></div>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>While I understand the frustration, there must be some of you here that understand the puzzlement of other classes when Rangers are still very clearly the #1 dps class in the game and are screaming that the sky is falling in.... did nobody suspect an adjustment was comming when Rangers where effectively a Tier unto themselves?... Tier 1 then Tier 0, the Rangers.</p><p>It sucks to be nerfed, and you've all every right to be [Removed for Content] off, but show a little perspective. You're ahead of all the other Tier 1 and plain embaress many of the Tier 2.</p>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Carnagh no one is complaining about the nerf via loss of weapons proc'ing on bows.  It was clearing stated by the Dev's that this was going to happen.  While it did upset some most of us are fine with it as long as it also made bow proc's not go off on melee attacks.  What this thread is for and why many are upset is the Dev's lied to us about this change effecting non weapons.  We had been told the change would not effect non weapon items like the Cryptic BP, Robe and Shield of Striking.  But when the change went live it DID effect these items and that is what people are upset about.</p><p>There is a major bug in the change they put in to remove weapon proc's going off on ranged attacks.  It has effected all armor, shields and jewelry that are suppose to proc on offensive attacks.  This bug is not just limited to Rangers.  It effects anyone that has one of these items and can use ranged attacks.  The bug is also effecting Mage items with offensive proc's.</p><p>People need to learn to ignore the troll and flame posts and try to stick to the topic on hand.</p><p> </p><p>Dev's please look into this and try and fix it as soon as possible.</p><p> </p>

[Carna]

<div></div><p>Gotcha Crychtonn, thanks for the even tempered explaination. Aye, I can understad why that would [Removed for Content] you off. What you outline does sound like a bug.</p><p>Might the issue be just how much of Ranger damage is attributed to proccing off bows? It would seem that the devs are trying to level that off somewhat, although the way they've gone about it is a bit raw.</p>

[Jay]

<div></div><p>/applaud</p><p>A coherent thread! With minimal flamebait and trolling! Kudos, I won't yell at anyone this time <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Zork Phobos]

<div></div><div></div><div></div><p>if the devs would simply <strong>ADD MORE BOWS & ARROWS </strong>to the game, this change would be reasonable also. I will give credit to sony for giving a good amount of ranged CA's, those are nice. however without a decent variet of bows/arrows they get old quick.</p><p>This whole situation wouldnt be nearly as big an issue if devs would put an equal amount of time and effort into fleshing out the game to cater to the ranged style of rangers as much as they do for traditional tank/healer types. when we are broken, it takes them forever to fix us, when we are doing more damage than intended the world must stop in its tracks to correct it. Meanwhile, we have almost no options through new equipment to adjust for <em><u>any</u></em> of this.</p><p>Message Edited by Zork Phobos on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:44 PM</span></p>

[Lexan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><p>While I understand the frustration, there must be some of you here that understand the puzzlement of other classes when Rangers are still very clearly the #1 dps class in the game and are screaming that the sky is falling in.... did nobody suspect an adjustment was comming when Rangers where effectively a Tier unto themselves?... Tier 1 then Tier 0, the Rangers.</p><p>It sucks to be nerfed, and you've all every right to be [Removed for Content] off, but show a little perspective. You're ahead of all the other Tier 1 and plain embaress many of the Tier 2.</p><p></p><p></p><hr><p>You obviously havent played with many conjurer's or necros "tier 2" if played well owns all teir 1 atm!</p><p></p></blockquote>

[Kasai]

ok first of all i play a ranger, so this aint trolling this is my opinon.I also have a 60 Wizard, i have seen that you guys have been the top dps...that doesnt bother me, what does bother me is when you guys get a change(but still are top dps) you start complaining.  I mean you are doing hte exact thing that you all told wizzies to not do.  "Don't complain becuase your class doesnt do top DPS 100% of the time" I mean is that bad that now you only do 300 mroe dps than all the other classes in raids now?  I mean...even god forbit you could get out DPS'd.  You are still great dps and this nerf will by no means lower your need in raids and groups.  It's balancing, not nerfing.  If you show me parses of you getting constantly out dpsed by other classes then maybe ill start to see your point more clearly.<div></div>

[Crychtonn]

<div></div><p>Kasai did you completely ignore the OP of this thread and what it is about.  And please don't even try and compare this thread to all those Wizard threads.  This thread doesn't contain any comparisons or comments attempting to nerf another class.  Something that is very prominent in a large portion of Wizard threads.</p><p>This thread is about the Dev's telling us one thing (removing weapon proc's) and doing something very different (removing ALL proc's).  It's not about this ruining our DPS it's about us either being lied to or an unintentional bug caused by the intended change.  Fact is this change/bug effects all classes that had these BP's and Shield not just Ranger's.  And none are happy about it.  It is also effecting Mage items.</p><p>People please actually read before posting.  And stop assuming every thread is a whine about some change to someones DPS.</p><p>Reading is good.  It helps you learn things.</p><p> </p>

[xandez]

<div></div><p>Honestly, if the made these changes because the weapons / whatewa proccing from bow were not "right", fine. I couldnt care less. I'll cope and stuff, no big deal.</p><p>But, if this was a feeble attempt to balance something... PFFT.</p><p>Please, learn to do something right for a change. TEST things properly at the first place, THINK them out a bit.</p><p>K thx bye, drive thru pleage. Over and out.</p><p>++Xan</p>

[damahra]

<div></div><p>excuse me for butting in on this thread here, but, I have a lvl 50 ranger and am  also upset by all the changes  that  have been made to  the  ranger  class lately, but the 2  things  I wanted to address  is,  1) if  they're going to change  the way our proc's work,  then, seriously, they should examine the way ALL class  procs  work.   And 2) on a  previous post,  a  sentence  caught my eye " the devs  are  trying to make  all the classes  equal" or something to  that effect.    I'm sorry,  but when playing a game  of  this  genre, all classes  are NOT created  equal,  healers are not  supposed to  be  able  to dps/melee well, rangers  are  not meant  to be tanks  etc etc.   I don't  know about anyone else,   but I'd  rather stand off to  the side  and  fill  a mob full of arrows,  or get  behind and hack  and slash it to death while a big bad leroy brown gets all up in his face and keeps him mad while I'm doing it. </p><p>Ever since they started making all the changes to the rangers, I simply cannot keep up, have a hard time adjusting and learning, re-learning, and then having to re-learn all over again how to play my class that I dearly love. </p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lexani- wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>You obviously havent played with many conjurer's or necros "tier 2" if played well owns all teir 1 atm!</p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>I play a Brigand, Tier 2, and like yourself a Scout so worthy of comparison... we don't compare.

[lamad]

<div><p>Let my try and sum up what i have noticed so far.....</p><p>When stream which increases aggro is on and the mob aggros, i no longer continue to do dmg when the mob gets to close.  THIS SUX considering i am rooted and stifled.</p><p>All the arrows are level one so i went from auto attack hit between 700 - 1000 to now hitting for 30- 70</p><p>Finally, i no longer proc off my weapons.</p><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!!  Why wouldnt SOE just decrease the dmg some spells do rather than make a key spell suck and more dangerous for us to use, make arrows that COST US A TON useless in auto attack, and remove a heavy portion of some of our procs!!!  Again i dont mind a decrease in dps, just dont make the class suck to play, for those who have been used to the way it was!</p><p>PS These remarks come after getting OWNED in a group, by mobs i could once solo!!!!</p></div>

[Uld]

<div></div><div></div>Ok so I jus looted the:<font size="2"><p>Et'Sipe's Haubergeon of Undeath (chest piece)</p><p>It has a 50% chance to proc magic dmg and heal caster.</p><p>What I wanna know is that, will this proc go off when I use my bow?</p><p>Im afraid that I already know the answer is no...</p><p>And if it is, was this intended to happen?</p><p>*cries*</p><p>Thx</p><p>**Edit: BTW im very sad because my PGT doesnt proc anymore <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></font><p>Message Edited by Uldin on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:26 PM</span></p>

[Carna]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>lamadon wrote:<div><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!! </p></div><hr></blockquote>Are you still the top dps Scout?... If so, how is this change in any way too much?... If this change is as big a deal as you say, and you're still the top dps Scout, don't you think you were more than "a bit" overpowered before?

[Gnome mercy]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Uldin wrote:<div></div><div></div>Ok so I jus looted the:<font size="2"><p>Et'Sipe's Haubergeon of Undeath (chest piece)</p><p>It has a 50% chance to proc magic dmg and heal caster.</p><p>What I wanna know is that, will this proc go off when I use my bow?</p><p>Im afraid that I already know the answer is no...</p><p>And if it is, was this intended to happen?</p><p>*cries*</p><p>Thx</p><p>**Edit: BTW im very sad because my PGT doesnt proc anymore <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p></font><p>Message Edited by Uldin on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:26 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Lol, I had tot est that today, and i oh yes it goes off still, Et'sipes tunic plus stream of arrows is going to rock!!!

[King Leor]

<div></div>Yup, used etsipes today for raids. NOW for the fun one... I think I have posted this befor too, not too sure though. It's a PM I got from Ilucide and goes as follows. "<span><strong>Re: weapons proccing on bows</strong></span><p>Items that are not weapons will not be affected, so far as I know. It's not a fix "of mine", it's just a fix. In fact, I had nothing to do with it, I just happened to mention it in passing the Darkfury Saber thread, because I was getting a lot of PMs about the issue.-Ilu"So thast what he had to say. And from that I undestand that shields and BP's shoudl have remained untainted.</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</p>

[Uld]

<div></div><p>Ummm...</p><p>My Etsipe Haubergon of Undeath seems to be not procing from bow attacks</p><p>1) I dont notice any magical strikes (graphically and damage wise-- mob health bar <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)</p><p>2) I dont shape change (which i think is a good thing <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />) buuut... still it shows that its not procing</p><p>But i must admit i didnt chek the combat channel msgs thing, so will do it today to throroughly check if it does go off.</p><p>And another thing, does a slower weapon proc more frequently than a fast weapon after LU19?</p>

[King Leor]

<div></div><p>Yes, slower weapons have always procced more. thats why rangers do so much dmg via procs. Wep procs are based on a 3 second delay. So when something has a 12% chance to proc it's only 12% if the weapon has a 3 second delay. So a 12% chance to proc on a 7 sec delay bow = a 28 %chance to proc when using bow. AND thats why the valian bow kicks way more butt than ANY bow in the game. (even the crappy darkfury bow)</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</p>

[AfflictedOne]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Carnagh wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Lexani- wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p>You obviously havent played with many conjurer's or necros "tier 2" if played well owns all teir 1 atm!</p></blockquote><hr></blockquote>I play a Brigand, Tier 2, and like yourself a Scout so worthy of comparison... we don't compare.<hr></blockquote>Actually brigands are the highest dps class in game by a long shot.  One word dispatch.   It adds 50% to every other players dps while it's running.  Two brigands can keep it on a mob for the majority of a fight.  Every good player knows what kind of dps this is.  The thing is brigands don't want to talk about it and they don't get the blame for this dps on parses but it's there none the less.  <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></span><div></div><p>Message Edited by AfflictedOne on <span class="date_text">02-05-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:44 PM</span></p>

[Nak]

eh, i think you guys complain too much, personally i could care less about proccing weps, i can still parse 1200-1500 avg on t5/t6 x4 /800-900 on orange mobs np np using an ironwood bow, sure i have my share of masters which help, but as long as you know what your doing it shouldn't be hard for anyway using ad3's to get 1k+ on yellows...just gotta stop complaing [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] soe and learn how to optimize your groups and casting strategies (maybe time melee and put on dots <span>:smileysurprised:</span> )one thing i do find funny is how many items there adding for mages that proc off armor and weapons while they take ours away--When equiped has 10% chance to cast yatta yatta for 200dmg on any offensive cast-- hey devs,  didn't know it was possible to cast hats on mobs when casting ice comet too!<div></div>

[Siphar]

<div>NERF BRIGANDS !!!! hehe</div>

[Nak]

<span><blockquote><hr>Siphar wrote:<div>NERF BRIGANDS !!!! hehe</div><hr></blockquote>worst idea ever</span><div></div>

[Ronin]

Actually that shield and armor both when worn effectively give you a *buff* which allows by its discription, to process extra dmg and a hate reduction. Those should be effected by any form of dmg we do, melee or ranged cause its the same as a conjuror casting thier proc buff on you. Its an added effect buff from an item. Believe this needs to be bug reported by thse who own these items, so it can be addressed.Also, have you all noticed procs from poisons have become speratic? Dmg procs seem to fly like mad, and stun procs seem to hardly work at times. Pre-LU19 stun poison would normally fire off Stealthly shot nearly 80% of the time. however now its barely procing from it 30% of the time. Also noticed triple arrow, and percise shot have had a decrease proc rate for the stun procs. Then you look at dmg procs, and those are firing off it seems like alot more now. Seems my DMG procs run out faster now, and my stun poisons are lasting longer cause not triggering as often.Think if you look at  it in a whole, there are several bugs introduced with this Update, which still need to be either address or reported so they are known. I still have more parsing to do before I can confirm the proc rate changes to stuns and dmg poisons, but any extra info anyone else can gather would be nice. Atleast this way we can with combined efforts bombard them with bug reports and maybe get some fixes done where needed.Same goes for the tunic and shield, those still should proccess from ranged, just by thier descriptions. Or those discriptions need to be changed to reflect the updates.<div></div>

[Memory]

Procs are simply messed up.apart from the fact that some melee weapons still proc, shield and bp no longer proc.last night on raid i didnt even once proc the wizzie proc buff while i was shooting out the conju blaze like mad.so its all just messed up, but i guess its gonna take some weeks before they actually believe it and prolly even longer until they find a way how to fix it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Stormhawk]

<span><blockquote><hr>Memory01 wrote:Procs are simply messed up.apart from the fact that some melee weapons still proc, shield and bp no longer proc.last night on raid i didnt even once proc the wizzie proc buff while i was shooting out the conju blaze like mad.so its all just messed up, but i guess its gonna take some weeks before they actually believe it and prolly even longer until they find a way how to fix it <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div><hr></blockquote>Wizzie proc specifically states melee only in the description, conjurer just says "successful attack".  Thus why you were proccing it.</span><div></div>