Dark day :(

[Siphar]

<div><div>Strip the feather from my hat and PLuck the gut from my bow <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Its a dark day for all rangers roaming and pillaging norrath... 2nd Feb '06 aka ''DARK DAY'' is the day when Rangers became normal everyday characters in Norrath once again. Sure we can retell stories of old how once mighty Rangers struck fear into the hearts of their foes, soloing various named and instances while not even breaking a sweat.</div><div> </div><div>Today... the fear has been [Removed for Content] from our bows. Stream is now just another CA and our str rings are permanent. Our proc'ing weapons cease to exists (PGT etc)..</div><div> </div><div>/lowers head in shame... takes cap off and cries...</div><div> </div><div>- 60 Nerf'd ranger</div><div>- 57 pally</div><div>- Level 3 new char...</div></div>

[Keredh]

<div></div><div></div><p>[deleted]</p><p>Message Edited by Keredh on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:55 AM</span></p>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><div><font size="2" face="Arial"><span>[expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]</span></font> this game.</div><p>Message Edited by Gorathh on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">11:48 AM</span></p>

[KnightOfTheWo]

I guess at this point you have a choice: you can't control what they do (except you can /bug or /petition or /feedback or post feedback on boards.)You CAN choose to control what you do have: your attitude.Food for thought.<div></div>

[Badd Boy]

I feel bad for any class that has there dmg reduced, It happened to us on Lich. What you fail to understand is when a dev does see posts like this any constructive talk that is going on is negated by people using foul language or disruptive talk. Dodging the language filter will get you banned and won't help your cause. Help the rest of your ranger friends and keep it calm, discuss it constructively with intelligent feedback. I do however feel your pain man.

[Dwarfnvasi]

i hate SoE so bad<div></div>

[merula]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Dwarfnvasion wrote:i hate SoE so bad<div></div><hr></blockquote>So you post an inappropriate message hoping people will lose their jobs because you are upset over a video game. Nice. It's comforting to know there are people like you out there with such good morals.

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><div></div><p>People are emotional and they are going to get upset over this.  Attacking them for expressing themselves is your way of feeling important I guess.  How about if all you FANBOI's start your own thread.  For the last time, I will say whatever I want, whenever and wherever... and I'll let the MiB decide if it was appropriate. </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Truxker on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:43 PM</span></p>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><div>There are constructive ways to express yourself and non-constructive ways to express yourself. By a common agreement and with concerted effort from everyone, we try to keep these forums from degenerating into the non-constructive rants found on other boards, and instead strive to work out solutions or at least logical proposals.</div><div> </div><div>You want us to respect your right to be upset. We do. Please respect our right to have a non-flame forum.</div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:32 PM</span></p>

[GrayStorm]

<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><div>There are constructive ways to express yourself and non-constructive ways to express yourself. By a common agreement and with concerted effort from everyone, we try to keep these forums from degenerating into the non-constructive rants found on other boards, and instead strive to work out solutions or at least logical proposals.</div><div> </div><div>You want us to respect your right to be upset. We do. Please respect our right to have a non-flame forum.</div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:32 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>yeah... your so called 'constructive' approach got us into this mess.  meanwhile the other classes were raising 100 different flavors of h3ll. </p><p> </p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<div></div><p>People are emotional and they are going to get upset over this.  Attacking them for expressing themselves is your way of feeling important I guess.  How about if all you FANBOI's start your own thread.  For the last time, I will say whatever I want, whenever and wherever... and I'll let the MiB decide if it was appropriate. </p><p> </p><p>--------------------------------------------</p><p>I agree the time for happy go lucky posting is over. </p><p>We took it in the shorts from this:</p><p> </p><p><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v517/angry_in_t_o/38477.gif"></p></blockquote><p>Message Edited by Truxker on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">12:43 PM</span></p>

[Truxker]

<div></div> As upset as you might be. Lets remember to keep things civil.

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Truxker wrote:<div></div> As upset as you might be. Lets remember to keep things civil.<hr></blockquote><p><font size="6">Then it's time for a CIVIL WAR!!!</font></p><p>Just Kidding... OK I'm laughing now, that's a start....</p>

[Truxker]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Truxker wrote:<div></div> As upset as you might be. Lets remember to keep things civil.<hr></blockquote><p><font size="6">Then it's time for a CIVIL WAR!!!</font></p><p>Just Kidding... OK I'm laughing now, that's a start....</p><hr></blockquote>Laughing is always good. Its when you cackle that people tend to get worried.

[RedArcher]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Truxker wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Truxker wrote:<div></div> As upset as you might be. Lets remember to keep things civil.<hr></blockquote><p><font size="6">Then it's time for a CIVIL WAR!!!</font></p><p>Just Kidding... OK I'm laughing now, that's a start....</p><hr></blockquote>Laughing is always good. Its when you cackle that people tend to get worried.<hr></blockquote><font color="#ff0000">Hey! You are like the first MiB I have seen on our EverHappy2 Ranger forums. Good to see you!</font>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><div>There are constructive ways to express yourself and non-constructive ways to express yourself. By a common agreement and with concerted effort from everyone, we try to keep these forums from degenerating into the non-constructive rants found on other boards, and instead strive to work out solutions or at least logical proposals.</div><div> </div><div>You want us to respect your right to be upset. We do. Please respect our right to have a non-flame forum.</div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">03:32 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>yeah... your so called 'constructive' approach got us into this mess.  meanwhile the other classes were raising 100 different flavors of h3ll. </p><p> </p><hr></blockquote>It was the constructive approach that fixed the ranger class in the first place prior to LU13. I wasn't a ranger back then, so I can't speak on it, but ask Kaeros or Cat.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:34 PM</span></p>

[Jay]

<div></div>I guess I must be missing something...but /sayonara to all you weekend rangers who can't take the heat. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[RedArcher]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Jay42 wrote:<div></div>I guess I must be missing something...but /sayonara to all you weekend rangers who can't take the heat. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote><font color="#ff0000">Well, im here for the long haul... unless I start alt hopping again... or until my ADD kicks in... or until another game comes out that blows me away. :smileytongue:</font>

[Zholain]

<font size="2">You won't see me post comments like this very often.  But.  We held the door open for you one the way in.  We'll be glad to hold it for you on the way out too.  Don't come back until you can show a little grit.  And a lot more class.</font><div></div>

[Sirlutt]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>KnightOfTheWord wrote:I guess at this point you have a choice: you can't control what they do (except you can /bug or /petition or /feedback or post feedback on boards.)You CAN choose to control what you do have: your attitude.Food for thought.<div></div><hr></blockquote>and you can control which company you send your money too every month.</span></div>

[Gnome mercy]

<div></div><p>/sigh, if im not mistaken this little ranger thing is a good change, im not saying it is what is best for us but if you ask me, my server is slowly becoming overpopulated by rangers, i love my ranger because he is a ranger, not cause he is dps or special, my ranger is a ranger and will always be a ranger no matter what soe does to us, now maybe some of you guys dont agree with me, maybe you guys play your char for dps, but me personally would rather have fun than play a char i dont like jsut cause he can do something others cant.</p><p>as for other people, complain please feel free, but canw e at least get some intelligent feedback here? I mean no fighting because someone say this class sucks, if you dont like that get over it suck it up do whatever you gotta do to ignore the urge to be even more of an idiot than the last person, just please everyone lets calm the you know what down and talk about this and get some nice non hating feedback in this thread</p>

[Kai'va Arros]

Not thrilled with the changes but I'll tell you today I went afk for a min or two in an XP group. The minute I got back and started pounding away on the mob, every single person in my group on Vent said, 'Holy crap!, The ranger is back from afk!' While I do love to solo and would love to continue to do so, I recongnize two things.1. Being able to solo a lot of things in the game, honestly isn't what they intended. Pretty sure we're all well aware of that.2. The playerbases of MMO's are EXTREMELY resourceful. I played another game prior to this for a few years. Every single time they made changes to make it more difficult to solo the heavy mobs, the community adapted and found a way to keep doing it. The great thing was it was generally exploit free. Rangers expecially should be resourceful and I really have no doubts in our abilities to overcome/adapt.Again, I hate nerfs (and definitely not liking the ones we got). I prefer to see things answered in other ways. Bump other people up a bit to compensate or adjust the AI to fix your mistakes, don't punish classes for being good at specific things. I understand there are cases where nerfs are actually 'necessary' (/retch) but, too often its the first option developers seem to take. (i.e; the easy route) And really all that does is frustrate the playerbase.So far though, I'm really not seeing <i>that</i> much that effected us. (still sucks though <img src="/smilies/1cfd6e2a9a2c0cf8e74b49b35e2e46c7.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />)<p>Message Edited by Kai'va Arroska on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">01:40 AM</span></p>

[King Leor]

<div></div><p>Im just very [Removed for Content] that I had to pack up my 3 best items due to their changes (some of which I was lied to about unless it's a mistake they plan to change). My items, Ancient Combine longsword, (no longer procs on bow, now useless as I have DW with 25 STR on it.) Now. for the lieing part, I was told shields and BP's, robes etc would still proc on bows even though our weps no longer will. Well, needless to say i have now hung up my cryptic metallic as it wont work with bow anymore and my Uktrl's shield of striking wont work either. I /bugged this of course as from what I was told from Ilucide is that the shields and BP's will still work. So im still hoping at least that it gets fixed and would very much appreciate if we get some feedback regarding it.</p><p>LeoricLevel 60 ranger</p>

[illum]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kai'va Arroska wrote:1. Being able to solo a lot of things in the game, honestly isn't what they intended. Pretty sure we're all well aware of that.<hr></blockquote>If that were the case, conjurers would not be able to solo roost, and level 52 wizards would not be able to solo CQ3 (i've seen both being done on multiple occasions).  to add insult to injury, wizards and healers now proc off spells and heals...that just goes to show the wonderful skills known as the SOE EQ2 dev team.

[Siphar]

<div></div><p>quite a few replies to a very light hearted message.</p><p>I used to play necro main in eq1 so im used to the nerf "sledge hammer", yeh the nerf bat for Eq1 necro's evolved to a sledge hammer (pokemon style) so i'm just getting used to it again with my ranja in eq2.</p><p>There have been so many changes to the ranger class amongst others. I used to play my main pally until LU13 then i switched mains, i won't be going back, and yeh i'll adjust.</p><p>Just play for fun, so what if we aren't overpowered anymore.. I guess we just have to make friends now and err.. group and stuff.. i guess... <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p>

[Kai'va Arros]

<blockquote><hr>illumin wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Kai'va Arroska wrote:1. Being able to solo a lot of things in the game, honestly isn't what they intended. Pretty sure we're all well aware of that.<hr></blockquote>If that were the case, conjurers would not be able to solo roost, and level 52 wizards would not be able to solo CQ3 (i've seen both being done on multiple occasions). to add insult to injury, wizards and healers now proc off spells and heals...that just goes to show the wonderful skills known as the SOE EQ2 dev team.<hr></blockquote>Pretty sure it is the case, very well likely though that the outcry to nerf their abilities was nowhere near as loud as it was to nerf us (I could name specific class posts in their forums asking for just that.). I'm sure eventually the dev team will target them in their sights as well. Not saying I wish for this to happen, its disgusting to me for one class to whine about another to get them nerfed simply because they do not have what we've got.

[roblinb]

<div></div>Don't you mean what we had?

[xandez]

<div></div><div></div><p>Well, wasnt that bad...Imbued rings got changed, i might even like the change i think.SoA got changed, its now completely useless in solo. Well, back to pre DoF lvl 55 ranger style play then.</p><p>Sniff, my good 'ol PGT is now pretty much useless too... sniffl. Guess ill have to hunt for that shield which can be shot with the bow to replace my trusty PGT proc...There was good changes thou, arrows are now summoned to the quivers, yay! <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>++Xan</p><p>Message Edited by xandez on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">04:06 PM</span></p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><span>It was the constructive approach that fixed the ranger class in the first place prior to LU13. I wasn't a ranger back then, so I can't speak on it, but ask Kaeros or Cat.</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by TaleraRis on <span class="date_text">02-03-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:34 PM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Agreed. I've not been around as long as Kae or Cat, but I'd like to think that I was a part of the changes that came around so you new Rangers could feel the damage we rightly had. The problem is, you don't realize the struggle the Rangers had before that. Our class has always had to struggle for what we have had and for a few short months we lived in Nirvana. Being a Ranger to me means living through the bad times as well as the good because I enjoy BEING a Ranger. It's not about the extreme DPS that we got after CU. That was icing on the cake. We have a motto here that many of us actually play by. Adapt and Overcome. To borrow a phrase from Kae, as long as they leave me my bow, I really don't care what they do.Cat, tell me when it's my turn to hold the door.<p>Message Edited by Cronon on <span class="date_text">02-04-2006</span><span class="time_text">10:38 AM</span></p>

[Fireshad]

So, here I go, I havewe started limiting my posts, mostly cuz Kearos and Cer do such a good job.  I am a ranger since day one, the highest any other characther has ever gotten has been 24.  I will remain a ranger, no matter what they put my class through.  This is not a dark day, but a beautiful day, because here we see the true characther of each and every one of you.  Please, stop playing your rangers, I would love to actually be able to afford ranger masters.  <img src="/smilies/69934afc394145350659cd7add244ca9.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  On a serious note though, is it your character you like to play, or is it that you have alot of high numbers above the head of the mob your killing.  If you only like the fact you do alot of damage, play a wizard, they will be back to very high damage with the int to spell ratio increase they are putting in LU20.  If you like having to work your [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] of for damage, if you like being a having so many restrictions put on where and how you need to be to do damage, if you like having to pay a minimum of 50g per raid instance, and if you LOVE your bow, then I welcome you friend to the great hall of Rangers.  Take your seat.  If not, well, I hear the newbie island is alot of fun this time of year.P.S.  I am not a big fan of holding the door open, can we just put a door stop up so we can drink more beer?<div></div>

[lamad]

<div><p>Let my try and sum up what i have noticed so far.....</p><p>When stream which increases aggro is on and the mob aggros, i no longer continue to do dmg when the mob gets to close.  THIS SUX considering i am rooted and stifled.</p><p>All the arrows are level one so i went from auto attack hit between 700 - 1000 to now hitting for 30- 70</p><p>Finally, i no longer proc off my weapons.</p><p>Look, i agree that maybe we were a bit over powered, but these changes are a bit much!!!  Why wouldnt SOE just decrease the dmg some spells do rather than make a key spell suck and more dangerous for us to use, make arrows that COST US A TON useless in auto attack, and remove a heavy portion of some of our procs!!!  Again i dont mind a decrease in dps, just dont make the class suck to play, for those who have been used to the way it was!</p><p>PS These remarks come after getting OWNED in a group, by mobs i could once solo!!!!</p></div>

[Anas]

<div></div><p>oh well what's done is done :smileysad:</p><p>i too chose to be a ranger for the class not the "I'm=top-of-DPS-parse-AGAIN!" groups.</p><p>but as was said above ... we all adapt ...  (and hopefully all the wanna-be dps-loving rangers will drop the class now so only the true rangers remain hehehe )</p><p>* carves out a wooden wedge and places it at the bottom of the door *</p><p>* Joins the rest of her ranger brethren ... makes a toast .... *</p><p>* looks down at her Survival pak and pulls out a Thorny Trap , (lets hope you're not next...) *</p>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><p>WOW!  DOOM AND GLOOM!</p><p> </p><p>So, let me get this straight....our short time atop the DPS chart and you folks are ready to scream shennanigans when we get a few things about our character changed?   Is all of this coming from the wizards who gave up their top of the DPS chart finger waggler to become a arrow flinger?  Or is this coming from the I just parsed my DPS and now it is less on average than it was before people?</p><p>If you want to be a ranger be one...you still have your bow, you still have your arrows...I bet King Leoric is soloing roost right now as I write this (heck...he'll probable throw up a post bragging about it later hehe j/k Leoric). </p><p>If you never expected to be tuned up or tuned down after our run at the top of the DPS then you were deluding yourself somewhat. </p><p>If you are a ranger, and wanted to be a ranger before you figured out who was top DPS (still Rangers btw) then this change will be just another among the many trials and tribulations you went through to get here.  We are still kings of our domain (and some queens too hehe).  We need to evaluate the changes not cry about them...we need to discuss the changes not argue about them...we need to be what we have always been.  Rangers.  Evaluating our enemies from the safety of shadow and attacking in an intelligent manner.</p><p>This isnt the last change to be made in this game...and it isnt the last one for us.  I am sure there are many nerfs and fixes in our future...at the end of it all though...I am still a Ranger at heart.  And they cant defeat me because of that (and my 50% avoidance).</p><p>I hope you folks know, I am not flaming you...I just thought we were more than the damage numbers we put out. </p><p>Sincerely,</p><p>Peace Health and Happiness</p><p>Saihung Talechaser</p><p>50th Ranked Ranger</p><p>42nd Ranked Carpenter</p>

[Teksun]

I kinda wish they'd nerf us all the way back to release...<div></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><div>I don't even know where to begin with this...  But here goes!</div><div> </div><div>If Ranger Pride means welcoming all nerfs with open arms.</div><div> </div><div>If Ranger Pride means showing fellow rangers the door when they are in the middle of a healthy vent.</div><div> </div><div>I think you all are in denial... You really hate your class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  IMO Should not be Pride... Perhads Sadism is a better word.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Zholain]

<div><span><blockquote><hr><font size="2">Niuan wrote:</font><div><font size="2">I don't even know where to begin with this...  But here goes!</font></div><div><font size="2"> </font></div><div><font size="2">If Ranger Pride means welcoming all nerfs with open arms.</font></div><div><font size="2"> </font></div><div><font size="2">If Ranger Pride means showing fellow rangers the door when they are in the middle of a healthy vent.</font></div><div><font size="2"> </font></div><div><font size="2">I think you all are in denial... You really hate your class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  IMO Should not be Pride... Perhads Sadism is a better word.</font></div><div><font size="2"> </font></div><font size="2"></font><hr></blockquote><font size="2">If you want some constructive advice on how to continue to accomplish the same things you were before LU19, then have a seat.  There are dozens of rangers in here who will be glad to have that conversation with you.If you want to complain because you can no longer sit on your hands while Stream of Arrows demolishes the mob, well, that door is still open.   I was here long before you got here, and I'll be here long after you leave.We didn't get to where we were post-LU13 by ranting like a bunch of lunatics.  And despite your opinion, even post-LU19, we are still very capable.No, I don't like most of the changes.  But they aren't going to keep me from playing the game and having fun.</font></span></div>

[Saihung23]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><div>I don't even know where to begin with this...  But here goes! <font color="#ff6666">Next time begin with the back button, then you wouldnt post trash like this.</font></div><div> </div><div>If Ranger Pride means welcoming all nerfs with open arms.   <font color="#ff33cc">Way to over simplify a philosophy of dont cry or whine but try to rationally work out solutions.  Who likes reading someone posting how Rangers are suffering a slow death and the hands of SOE devs...what is the solution posed in that post?  I come here to the ranger forums to <u>talk</u> about ranger issues and help younger rangers.  Newcomers to the Ranger forums should see that this is a refuge from the bickering and SOE is the devil posts....instead now they are greeted by Dark Day <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />.  Should I be cheering the fact that a ranger feels he cant play his character?  No, instead if that rangers is looking for help on how to overcome obstacles...then I will help wholeheartedly.</font></div><div> </div><div>If Ranger Pride means showing fellow rangers the door when they are in the middle of a healthy vent.   <font color="#ff99cc">Believe me, If I could show the door to some people I would.  Without hesitation and without remorse.  Because some folks just never see the glass as half full....and if a health vent makes other people uncomfortable...is it our fault that we are uncomfortable.  What good will come of the Devs thinking of our class as the children that other class forums harbor?  Nothing good will come of it.  If having Ranger Pride means that I should stand up and whine like a pathetic [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] then yes...I will not whine and I will not be proud of being among the pathetic [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]es that rangers will have become.</font></div><div> </div><div>I think you all are in denial... You really hate your class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  IMO Should not be Pride... Perhads Sadism is a better word.</div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff33cc">Denial is the thought that telling me and other rangers that we <quote> hate your class <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /> <unquote> deserves a smiley is an appropriate response to objections raised.  And it is to you that I direct my equally inappropriate response of calling you out.   Way to try to puff smoke up everyones arsehole.</font></div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote>Call me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sadist for trying to have some quality in here...something better than the other forums...Bah! I say!

[Vimy]

<div></div><span><blockquote><hr>Teksun wrote:I kinda wish they'd nerf us all the way back to release...<div></div><hr></blockquote>Dude!  Not funny!  <span>Ok, maybe a little.   :smileyvery-happy:</span>The only summon arrow spell was at 20?   Couldn't out DPS most tanks..   if you went right to the start I guess we would still have our avoidance, but no offensive stance?  Yuk!   And no poisons?!  If I remember right, the crafted ones were worse than store bought, and had the same number of procs....But I'd still play.   <span>:smileywink:</span></span>edit:   I'm gonna stick to replying to fun/funy posts.   It keeps me in a better mood.  <span>:smileywink:</span><div></div><p>Message Edited by Vimy on <span class="date_text">02-06-2006</span><span class="time_text">09:52 AM</span></p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr></blockquote>Call me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sadist for trying to have some quality in here...something better than the other forums...Bah! I say!<hr></blockquote>What is a quality post?  One that agrees with your opinion?

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zholain wrote:<div><span><blockquote><div><font size="2"></font> </div><div><font size="2"></font> </div><font size="2"></font><hr></blockquote><font size="2">If you want some constructive advice on how to continue to accomplish the same things you were before LU19, then have a seat.  There are dozens of rangers in here who will be glad to have that conversation with you.If you want to complain because you can no longer sit on your hands while Stream of Arrows demolishes the mob, well, that door is still open.   I was here long before you got here, and I'll be here long after you leave.We didn't get to where we were post-LU13 by ranting like a bunch of lunatics.  And despite your opinion, even post-LU19, we are still very capable.No, I don't like most of the changes.  But they aren't going to keep me from playing the game and having fun.</font></span></div><hr></blockquote>It seems I touched a nerve <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  To silence someone because they don't share the popular opinion if far worse than any ranting that has occured recently on these boards.  They are expressing feelings in a way they know how.  It is far easier to show someone the door than it is to discuss your difference in opinions.  This is exactly what my original post was about.

[Zholain]

<font size="2">You have struck no nerve, sir.  However, the majority of this post is not expressing an opinion.  Nor is it offering anything constructive.  The title itelf indicates that it will be nothing but a rant.  And it seems that I am in the majority here.  No one want to read a load of garbage on our forums.  You obviously know how to read, but you apparently haven't learned how to comprehend.  In my post, I clearly said that I, or any ranger here, will be glad to discuss ways to overcome the recent changes.  But instead you seem to prefer to rant.</font><div></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zholain wrote:<font size="2">You have struck no nerve, sir.  However, the majority of this post is not expressing an opinion.  Nor is it offering anything constructive.  The title itelf indicates that it will be nothing but a rant.  And it seems that I am in the majority here.  No one want to read a load of garbage on our forums.  You obviously know how to read, but you apparently haven't learned how to comprehend.  In my post, I clearly said that I, or any ranger here, will be glad to discuss ways to overcome the recent changes.  But instead you seem to prefer to rant.</font><div></div><hr></blockquote><p>I feel you probably mean well, but sometimes people don't post to be constructive.   I feel as the main poster does that the class was nerfed.  I do not share the original posters opinion that the game is over for me, however I see his post for what it is.  He is venting, as are the majority of negative posts.  To argue with them, to "show them the door" is a personal attack on them for not sharing your opinion, or popular opinion.  Let people vent it is human.</p>

[Fennir]

If you think we don't complain about things that are worth complaining about, you obviously only see what you want to see here.My biggest gripe right now is that rangers get no viable reward from the peacock line in line with the other classes, and that procs are messed up across the board since the melee proc change.  I have posted in threads regarding both of these issues.Just because we're not crying about what you're crying about doesn't mean we welcome nerfs with open arms.  Childish argument, seriously.<div></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:If you think we don't complain about things that are worth complaining about, you obviously only see what you want to see here.Just because we're not crying about what you're crying about doesn't mean we welcome nerfs with open arms.  Childish argument, seriously.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I was stating an observation made after many many days digging.  Anyone who was unhappy because of LU 19 was graciously "shown the door" by several avid posters in this forumn for the sake of Ranger Pride.  One could make an educated guess that we must welcome nerfs without negative feedback to sidestep the dreaded "Virtual Door" :smileyvery-happy:

[Gareorn]

<div>My biggest gripe is that my bow graphic won't stay up.  I'm a Ranger!  Why can't I get a bow graphic that doesn't drop everytime I zone or use my melee weapons?</div><div> </div><div>Okay, so I'm only semi-serious.  But since reading the forums this afternoon and seeing all the complaints, I thought I'd get mine in too.:smileytongue:</div>

[Grign]

<div></div><p>Where I come from, a [Removed for Content] is a [Removed for Content] no matter how much sugar you coat it with.  We were nerfed, no matter how you want to spin it.  The true question lies in each of us, are we going to react or act?  The "React" 'ers are the ones whining and running around saying the sky is falling.  The "Act" 'ers are the ones counseling to stay the course and adapt and overcome.  I do think the attitude here on the boards, while positive and encouraging for the most part, tends to remind me of a Far Side cartoon titled "Home on the Range" where the cowboys are all around the campfire and one yells to his companions "Hey everyone!  Ned just said a discouraging word!"  In the sense that, while we want to discourage the whiners and naysayers, sometimes it comes across that if you don't agree or aren't full of cheeriness, don't post.  Now I know that is probably not the intended result, but I seem to remember an expression referring to the road to Hell being paved with good intentions...  So just be mindful, that while we should never tolerate brash behavior and blatant crying, we should tolerate open discussion of people expressing feelings of frustration in a sensible manner that are working through their pain and seeking the help of others to do so.</p><p>As to the nature of the nerfs, well weapons procing off of bowshots was never intended to be the case and so taking it away doesn't seem like an unreasonable thing.  As for the stream nerf, yes, it was a mega kick [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] spell, for dungeons especially, but overpowered somewhat.  I would have rather seen them lower the dps on the CA and keep the point blank attack aspect of it versus what they actually did.  Rangers in D&D got an ability to be able to use ranged weapons at point blank range with no penalty, so to say that it shouldn't be possible is unfounded (just watch ol Legolas in Lord of the Rings $$).  That being said, it is what it is, and we as a community can either throw our suckers in the dirt and stomp off, or we can figure out how to re-beat the system with what we have now.  I have cleared Roost and Cache solo several times since the patch, it took a bit to figure out how to work it out (and about 15 terribly painful deaths...), but once I did, it's cake.  As long as you have stun poison, stream works great, just need to place a greater distance between mob and trap for the pull.  Triple arrow mobs, while still soloable, require a bit of strategy now.  If anything, nerfing stream has made the ranger community wake up and start to actually play again.  I mean come on, how hard was it to turn on stream and grab your drink and take a few sips while the mob was dying... Boring lol.  Now I have to pay attention or I die alot more.  As time goes on, hopefully the barrage of new ranger recruits will re-roll toons elsewhere so they can have the next uber class.</p><p>My last comment relates more to my frustration with SOE in general.  Here we are, 2 years into a game and they are still making changes that are drastically affecting game and class play.  And this isn't just ranger related, it applies to everyone.  In Everquest 1, they got so into "balancing the classes" that when it was all said and done, they had removed what made the game so cool when it first came out, the uniqueness of each class.  Part of why I liked EQ2 over WoW was its complexity, but with each patch it is becoming more and more like WoW (dumbed down).  I just hope that EQ2 will leave it's beta testing period soon and actually become a game where the Everquest name doesn't stand for the eternal quest to find out what they did to your toon this week and how they are going to be changing it during the weeks to come lol...</p><p>Safe Journeys to all of you.  Don't allow yourself to be a victim.  The rules have changed a bit, so what?  Adapt, overcome, and prosper.  It's the ranger way!</p><p> </p><p>Helspawn, Ranger 60 Oggok</p>

[TaleraRis]

<span><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:If you think we don't complain about things that are worth complaining about, you obviously only see what you want to see here.Just because we're not crying about what you're crying about doesn't mean we welcome nerfs with open arms.  Childish argument, seriously.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I was stating an observation made after many many days digging.  Anyone who was unhappy because of LU 19 was graciously "shown the door" by several avid posters in this forumn for the sake of Ranger Pride.  One could make an educated guess that we must welcome nerfs without negative feedback to sidestep the dreaded "Virtual Door" :smileyvery-happy:<hr></blockquote>Believe me, I've seen plenty of not-happy posts about LU19 and they haven't been shown the door. Why? Because they aren't posting like whining [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn]s, that's why.</span><div></div>

[Althkael]

<div></div>I, for one, am happy about LU-19, and here's why:1.) Arrows go straight to my quiver.2.) I can mentor without wasting everyone's time rearranging my hotbars.3.) There are sweet new racial quests upon entering your city.4.) The newbie zones of the cities now have history and depth.5.) The ranger community, I hope, will return to the way it was when it convinced me to play this game.My ranger, who is also my main, is still in his thirties even though I've had my account for a couple of months now.  I have never experienced SoA nor have I ever had anything beyond poisons that would proc from my bow.  I can solo very few heroic mobs in zones appropriate to my level at best.  I would rather spend my time chatting on the ranger channel or stalking a mob halfway through Antonica than power-leveling or farming Androus in SH; I get my xp through quests and refuse to "grind", and because of this I am rather happy about this update.  Also, I should now hear less arrow-envy from other classes and less bragging from the sunshine-patriot rangers we are now associated with.I wish I hadn't remained lurking for so long on these boards and that I built my new computer sooner so that I wouldn't have made my beloved ranger when it was the fashionable, flavor-of-the-month thing to do.  Oh well... I guess I'll just try to explore as much of Lavastorm as I can even though I have no business being there.  After that I'll go try my still-new triple-arrow CA which I'll think of as uber.  I'm not going to worry about how much damage I do every second.  I'll just keep playing my pre-end-game.  And I'm going to have a blast.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Althkaelis on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:04 AM</span></p>

[Zholain]

<div></div><div></div><div><span><blockquote><hr><font size="2">Althkaelis wrote:</font><font size="2">I, for one, am happy about LU-19, and here's why:1.) Arrows go straight to my quiver.2.) I can mentor without wasting everyone's time rearranging my hotbars.3.) There are sweet new racial quests upon entering your city.4.) The newbie zones of the cities now have history and depth.5.) The ranger community, I hope, will return to the way it was when it convinced me to play this game.My ranger, who is also my main, is still in his thirties even though I've had my account for a couple of months now.  I have never experienced SoA nor have I ever had anything beyond poisons that would proc from my bow.  I can solo very few heroic mobs in zones appropriate to my level at best.  I would rather spend my time chatting on the ranger channel or stalking a mob halfway through Antonica than power-leveling or farming Androus in SH; I get my xp through quests and refuse to "grind", and because of this I am rather happy about this update.  Also, I should now hear less arrow-envy from other classes and less bragging from the sunshine-patriot rangers we are now associated with.I wish I hadn't remained lurking for so long on these boards and that I built my new computer sooner so that I wouldn't have made my beloved ranger when it was the fashionable, flavor-of-the-month thing to do.  Oh well... I guess I'll just try to explore as much of Lavastorm as I can even though I have no business being there.  After that I'll go try my still-new triple-arrow CA which I'll think of as uber.  I'm not going to worry about how much damage I do every second.  I'll just keep playing my pre-end-game.  And I'm going to have a blast.</font><p><font size="2">Message Edited by Althkaelis on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:04 AM</span></font></p><hr></blockquote><i><b><font size="2">This</font></b></i><font size="2"> person understands.  I applaud you.It seems as if this 'virtual door' I have created has ruffled some feathers.  If that statement bothers you, then perhaps you should rethink the reasons you rolled a ranger in the first place.  The ill words I've seen on these boards in the past week are more than I've seen in a year and a half.  And for an entire year of that, the ranger class was <i><b>truly</b></i> in a sad state of affairs.  Even though there were no dps tiers then, in today's Norrath we would have been somewhere around tier 3.  And in all that time, I never saw the likes of what I'm seeing now.  The ranger is a great class.  But not because of the damage we can do.  It is because of the way it is played.  Those who understand this, like the gentleman I quoted and the many other rangers who I have talked with on these boards for a very long time (Kaeros, Demlar, Saihung, Gwyneth, Jarl, Tobias, Gareorn, and a host of others), have shown the fortitude and the pure love of the class that I am pretty sure they will be sticking around for a while.I apologize if my statement offended anyone.  However, the meaning of the post stands.  If you are unwilling and/or unable to tolerate the changes that SOE has, and will continue to make to the ranger, then perhaps this is not the class for you.I have always tried to be kindest, most helpful person I know how to be to my fellow rangers.  But I will not waste that kindness on those who would just spit it back in my face.</font></span></div><p><font size="2">Message Edited by Zholain on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:49 AM</span></font></p><p>Message Edited by Zholain on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:52 AM</span></p>

[SmEaGoLLuM]

You may be kind Zholain, but I am a straight up guy. Every post of Niuan's in this thread has been nothing but full of [Removed for Content]. Do what you have done in the past and just ignore the d1ckhead.<div></div>

[Zholain]

ROFLMAO     Thanks Gollum  <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><div></div>

[Te]

<div></div><div>I'll give my point of wiev to the changes even if they not considered to be the only rightfull ones.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>I dont mind the changes that melee weapons wont proc from bow at all.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Some fixes would be nice though.</div><div> </div><div>Some more fabled bow drops pls. Not increasing propper bow drops so people get to stay with a lower tier rare rare fabled bow or a player made is silly. Raiding 7 days a week and not a single bow drop in whole dof is crap both for rangers in my guild and the assassins.</div><div> </div><div>Another thing I think they need to make sure is that like leoric said, armor should proc dont see any point to why not.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div>For you that cry that rangers suck now, I can tell you one thing. It was either this change or they would probl have changed the whole proc equation on bow all over.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Regarding solo, yes it will be harder but still not impossible. Just not as dumbifying as it has been so far.</div>

[GoNom]

<div>OkaY Played for 3 hours today, got 6 invites for Groups in PoF Roost, tables....meanwhile LFG wasn't on, I wanted a day to get used to the changes.</div><div> </div><div>Yes SoA is nerfed, only for solo use.  We all knew that this was going to come, it was way over powered for soloing, and was not working as intended, but it is still a great damage dealer in groups.</div><div> </div><div>Procs: We knew this was coming too, since sony has been talling about it for weeks.</div><div> </div><div>That leaves me with the Strength Rings, this was absurd and caught everyone off guard.  I plan /feedbacking everyday from my Jeweler and my Ranger to try and drive the point home that this did not do anyone a bit of good.</div><div> </div><div>So I started my night out slow, banged out some writs in SS.  Was nice to actually have to fight a mob again, as apposed to just Stream burning it down quick.  No Ill-effects so far.</div><div> </div><div>Decided to do some kiting, Started slow with some blue ^^^ Raptors near the Snadcrawlers.  No Ill effects noticed.  So the only thing that has really changed, is that Stream is now working how they truly wanted it to.  To be a massive in group damage skill while we wait for our CA's to refesh.</div><div> </div><div>I am still certain that I can own most in DPS....whats the big deal here? </div>

[GoNom]

<div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr></blockquote>Call me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sadist for trying to have some quality in here...something better than the other forums...Bah! I say!<hr></blockquote>What is a quality post?  One that agrees with your opinion?<hr></blockquote></div><div> </div><div>Example A:Ranger enters board after LU19 and states that the end of the world is on him and that there is no hope in sight,.......bahhhhh   My stream is gone!!!!!!   The Devs hate us......the hate us....LETS REVOLT!!!   Off with their heads!!!!!!!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Example B: Man this bites, hows everyone getting by soloing without Stream.   I think its tougher but we can still kite pretty well, what would be nice though is ________    Fill in blank with a contructive thought that a dev can use.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Doesn't have to agree with anyone, heck we can debate it on its merits........but you effectively, perhaps worded differently, accomplished  Example A.</div><div> </div><div>Which of the 2 show promise of the Devs taking notice?  LU13 proves they do listen to player feedback.  If you want to vent, punch a pillow, it would actually accomplish alot more the another Ranger initiated Dev Flame session.</div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><p>Several posts since my last visit catch my eye :smileywink:</p><p>One person   <cough> <cough> G-o-l-l-u-m   < clears throat> Feels that he can win arguments or prove points by using BIG BOY WORDS.   How mature!</p><p>Other Folks feel that thier advice, or information shared is so valuable that you can either use his/her advice or reroll <cough> <cough> Z-h-o-l-a-i-n  < clears throat>  How arrogant is that??</p><p>Sony Forumns are for ideas and feelings to be shared reguardless of how valuable a few self made forumn gods think of thier intelect and/or the quality of thier posts.  Some of you folks honestly need a reality check and realise you are not the editor or controller of Sony Forumns.</p><p>I call it like I see it <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p> </p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>GoNomar wrote:<div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><blockquote><hr></blockquote>Call me a [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] sadist for trying to have some quality in here...something better than the other forums...Bah! I say!<hr></blockquote>What is a quality post?  One that agrees with your opinion?<hr></blockquote></div><div> </div><div>Example A:Ranger enters board after LU19 and states that the end of the world is on him and that there is no hope in sight,.......bahhhhh   My stream is gone!!!!!!   The Devs hate us......the hate us....LETS REVOLT!!!   Off with their heads!!!!!!!</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Example B: Man this bites, hows everyone getting by soloing without Stream.   I think its tougher but we can still kite pretty well, what would be nice though is ________    Fill in blank with a contructive thought that a dev can use.</div><div> </div><div> </div><div>Doesn't have to agree with anyone, heck we can debate it on its merits........but you effectively, perhaps worded differently, accomplished  Example A.</div><div> </div><div>Which of the 2 show promise of the Devs taking notice?  LU13 proves they do listen to player feedback.  If you want to vent, punch a pillow, it would actually accomplish alot more the another Ranger initiated Dev Flame session.</div><hr></blockquote><p>If I was a college science teacher I would expect example B on my homework and tests.  On a video game that does not require an education to play.... either one will suffice.  If the issue raises the attention of enough players either of the A or B category the Devs will look at it.  The assumption that devs only look at college quality posts I don't believe to be true.</p><p>Just because someone does not know how to hold a conversation well, or prove a point well does not mean thier input was not valuable to a dev standpoint. It gives them an idea of the scope of the problem, I.E. how many people are effected.  Also gives the devs a ballpark figure on how this problem is effecting that individuals personal game enjoyment.</p><p>no matter how crude or raw someones post is, it does offer some benifit to a dev.  If I was running beta software or an application/game tester I would expect feedback in example B style of feedback.  Since the game has gone live and sony cannot filter who plays it, it is reasonable that they can expect both forms of feedback.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by Niuan on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">06:47 AM</span></p><p>Message Edited by Niuan on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">07:19 AM</span></p>

[KnightOfTheWo]

<div><span><blockquote><hr>Althkaelis wrote:<div></div>I, for one, am happy about LU-19, and here's why:1.) Arrows go straight to my quiver.2.) I can mentor without wasting everyone's time rearranging my hotbars.3.) There are sweet new racial quests upon entering your city.4.) The newbie zones of the cities now have history and depth.5.) The ranger community, I hope, will return to the way it was when it convinced me to play this game.My ranger, who is also my main, is still in his thirties even though I've had my account for a couple of months now.  I have never experienced SoA nor have I ever had anything beyond poisons that would proc from my bow.  I can solo very few heroic mobs in zones appropriate to my level at best.  I would rather spend my time chatting on the ranger channel or stalking a mob halfway through Antonica than power-leveling or farming Androus in SH; I get my xp through quests and refuse to "grind", and because of this I am rather happy about this update.  Also, I should now hear less arrow-envy from other classes and less bragging from the sunshine-patriot rangers we are now associated with.I wish I hadn't remained lurking for so long on these boards and that I built my new computer sooner so that I wouldn't have made my beloved ranger when it was the fashionable, flavor-of-the-month thing to do.  Oh well... I guess I'll just try to explore as much of Lavastorm as I can even though I have no business being there.  After that I'll go try my still-new triple-arrow CA which I'll think of as uber.  I'm not going to worry about how much damage I do every second.  I'll just keep playing my pre-end-game.  And I'm going to have a blast.<div></div><p>Message Edited by Althkaelis on <span class="date_text">02-07-2006</span><span class="time_text">02:04 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote>Well spoken sir. Which is why I'm quoting his entire post again here.To put the same thing another way, how you choose to approach playing this class will determine not only your reaction, but ultimately your decision to remain a Ranger, or to go elsewhere after a Live Update or some other change to the game.One approach is all about <i>playing a Ranger.</i>The other approach is all about <i>game mechanics.</i>Both approaches have their merits, but Cat and others have observed that they play with the emphasis on the former. Not that the latter doesn't affect playing a Ranger, but if it's the foundation of how and why you play, then your reaction will be quite different after an update. Your whole game will shut down because you can't see past <i>numbers </i>to look at the <i>intangibles.</i>I like to <i>play my Ranger. </i>Like the quoted poster, I don't measure DPS as the sole measure of whether the class is fun to play or not. I've seen Rangers in other games and how they are being defined here is not only fun but has never been done before.DPS tier arguments aside, some of us believe in more than just the numbers for our class. You don't have to agree with us but we ask that you respect our right to approach the Ranger class as we will. Even if you don't, we'll continue to play as Rangers and not numberbots.Whether there are board trolls in our forums or not.<span><blockquote><hr></blockquote></span></span></div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><div><span><blockquote><hr></blockquote>Well spoken sir. Which is why I'm quoting his entire post again here.To put the same thing another way, how you choose to approach playing this class will determine not only your reaction, but ultimately your decision to remain a Ranger, or to go elsewhere after a Live Update or some other change to the game.One approach is all about <i>playing a Ranger.</i>The other approach is all about <i>game mechanics.</i>Both approaches have their merits, but Cat and others have observed that they play with the emphasis on the former. Not that the latter doesn't affect playing a Ranger, but if it's the foundation of how and why you play, then your reaction will be quite different after an update. Your whole game will shut down because you can't see past <i>numbers </i>to look at the <i>intangibles.</i>I like to <i>play my Ranger. </i>Like the quoted poster, I don't measure DPS as the sole measure of whether the class is fun to play or not. I've seen Rangers in other games and how they are being defined here is not only fun but has never been done before.DPS tier arguments aside, some of us believe in more than just the numbers for our class. You don't have to agree with us but we ask that you respect our right to approach the Ranger class as we will. Even if you don't, we'll continue to play as Rangers and not numberbots.Whether there are board trolls in our forums or not.<span><blockquote><hr></blockquote></span>Very nice post.  NIcely spoken.  I too really enjoy playing my ranger for the fun aspect of it.   On the other hand I can see how EQ can attract the "action" type of players that will use thier ranger to farm and PL because of the rewards for doing such things.  I don't think one style of play is right or wrong, but rather an opinion of play style.  This update effected the "action" type players more than the "enjoyment" types and I sympathise with thier cause.</span></div><hr></blockquote>

[Xenon Crimson]

<div></div><div><p><span><font color="#ffffff">Dark day indeed.... if you have your eyes closed.  </font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff">I love my toon and have enjoyed playing the class for the last 11 months.  Even before stream was changed I could drop mobs quicker and more effectively using my other combat arts.</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff">Some view every change to this class as a nerf... others accept the change and move on still enjoying the class and excelling at the role.</font></span></p><p><span><font color="#ffffff">If your that obsessed with numbers... go play with a calculator <img src="/smilies/8a80c6485cd926be453217d59a84a888.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></font></span></p></div>

[Moonkl]

<div><p>I have never posted to one of these forums before - but the general flow of many of the notes worries me - since they are so contrary to what I see as the ethos of a ranger.</p><p>I have been a ranger for over a year now - started as a ranger - and my main is still (and will continue to be) a ranger.</p><p>I play solo a lot and found that the mix of abilities in a ranger allowed me to do that (albeit making it challenging at times) as well as be a useful addition to any group. </p><p>In many ways I have always played the game with midset of being the solo - wandering arrow slinger - who is always ready and willing to help when the need arises.</p><p>I have gotten used to the changes in the game - such as just getting good at kiting just as some of that ability was changed and as has been discussed a lot in this stream - I view each change as a new challenge to see how I can hone my new skills to be as effective as I can be - and remaster my class.</p><p>SOE has made some great changes to the ranger class - and many of the abilities which folks bemoan the loss of - are - to be honest - logical - like it or not.</p><p>It makes no sense that a melee weapon should proc off a bow - just as it makes no sense that I can fire arrows at point blank range into the face of a mob who is hitting me with a sword - that just would not be able to happen in real life folks.</p><p>Interesting thing is that I was never even aware of just how amazing our DPS could be till I was level 60 and raiding and then seeing parser info....  Guess I was too busy just enjoying the game up until then. </p><p>We remain the closest that there is to a ninja class in the game - with ability to stealth, use poisons, strike fast and hard, lay traps, and vanish just as fast if we need to</p><p>Playing a ranger in EQ2 is about strategy, learning your craft and picking your moment to attack - and thats what makes it most satisfying.</p><p> </p></div>

[Tseri]

<div>I stopped reading things about halfway through here because it looked like it was degenerating into a flame fest.</div><div> </div><div>Disturbing?  Yes.</div><div> </div><div>However.  The OP was not wrong in coming here and posting the way they did.  There was nothing flamish about the original post.  Simply someone that felt disappointed and expressed it.  I'm disappointed myself.  In my group of friends we have no steady tank, so I usually end up doing it.  Stream was a huge help in this situation.  That help is now gone.  Is my life over?  No.  I'm frustrated that I can't use that CA to pull and burn something most of the way down before I have to resort to my melee CA's and take another 5 mins to kill something, but like so many others have said, I'll live and move on.</div><div> </div><div>I usually am a big fan of most people posting in here.  Things are constructive, people get along, etc.  It disappoints me when someone makes a post like the OP and then immediately the big names in here pounce on them and tell them that they'll hold the door open for them on the way out.  Way to be constructive.  It's downright rude.  All you constructive people need to just take a step back and breathe, then ask a question instead of showing the door to anyone who so much as looks like they're going to complain.</div>

[Grendelm]

<div>Rangers/Rangettes:</div><div> </div><div>Forgive me if I seem at a loss, but what exactly is the problem here?  I spent the night prior to LU19 striving to level up from 39 to 40 in Rivervale.  With a certain amount of patience, I was able to drop water elementals that considered yellow to me without much fuss.  The night after LU19, I zoned back into Rivervale and did the EXACT same thing.  Apart from two <20 spells that I was still using at lvl 39 (one essentially renamed, another just GONE), I could not discern any great variance post update.</div><div> </div><div>Ultimately, in a vastly complex game, if the developers decide to dull our talons a bit for the sake of balance, then so be it. Even if they make some poor decisions, we can, as a class, petition through these forums and in game APPROPRIATELY for some measure of justice. </div><div> </div><div>I play EQ2 for the ease of gameplay, not the ease of winning.  If I felt the need to play a game that's easy to win, I would kickbox toddlers.</div><div> </div><div>- Be of good cheer, and just keep telling yourself, "it's only a GAME, it's only a GAME...."</div><div> </div><div>Regards,</div><div> </div><div>Gelithiel "Eater of Worlds" Telperien</div><div>Level 40 Ranger</div><div>Highkeep soon to be Butcherblock</div><div><Council of Retribution></div><div> </div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Grendelmcp wrote:<div>Rangers/Rangettes:</div><div> </div><div> </div><div> </div><div><font color="#ff0000">- Be of good cheer, and just keep telling yourself, "it's only a GAME, it's only a GAME...."</font></div><div> </div><div>Regards,</div><div> </div><div>Gelithiel "Eater of Worlds" Telperien</div><div>Level 40 Ranger</div><div>Highkeep soon to be Butcherblock</div><div></div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>Wise words Grendelmcp.  I work tech support type work for a living... I know how sometimes mundane or redundant questions can really get to ya... Hell I get grumpy sometimes with the right conditions.</p><p>Alot of the folks in this post that lost thier cool are not normaly like that and I can really understand how things can trigger these types of responses.  </p><p>Now the dad in me really makes me put my patience hat on every once in a while and take a step back when words or actions make me angry.  Are the kids just venting?  Perhaps if I let them vent things will clear up on its own.  This is a skill that being a dad of 5 kids have taught me.  Even when it burns my ears sometimes <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></p><p>I did not mean to defame anyone, I did not mean to attack anyone on a personal level.  I just wanted to bring to everyone's attention that in order to have free open discusion we need to roll with the posts we like and dislike.  That is all.  For anyone I made angry I apoligize as that was not my intent.</p>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Tseri wrote:<div> </div><div>I usually am a big fan of most people posting in here.  Things are constructive, people get along, etc.  It disappoints me when someone makes a post like the OP and then immediately the big names in here pounce on them and tell them that they'll hold the door open for them on the way out.  Way to be constructive.  It's downright rude.  All you constructive people need to just take a step back and breathe, then ask a question instead of showing the door to anyone who so much as looks like they're going to complain.</div><hr></blockquote><p>Amen!  I'll never look at some of the people in here the same way again.  You'll show me the door? MU HAhah ahhaha. </p><p>F A N B O I</p><p>Special thanks to Niuan.  I couldn't agree with you more.</p><p> </p><p> </p>

[BtilTheMage]

<div>"F A N B O I"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">That word really is painful to read.  Use a Y for the love of God.</font></div>

[StrollingWolf]

<div></div><p>I know all of the rangers that frequent this board can post civily and treat eachother with respect. Please try to do so even though some of you may be frustrated with some of the changes.</p><p> </p><p>Thank you.</p>

[GoNom]

<div><font color="#cc00ff"></font><font color="#cc00ff"></font><font color="#cc00ff"></font><blockquote><hr><p>If I was a college science teacher I would expect example B on my homework and tests.  On a video game that does not require an education to play.... either one will suffice.  If the issue raises the attention of enough players either of the A or B category the Devs will look at it.  The assumption that devs only look at college quality posts I don't believe to be true.<font color="#cc00ff">Regardless of the environment, the Devs are human just like everyone else, calling the pieces of sh-Garbage, by human nature, category A will result in the Devs skipping right past it and moving on, looking for a Post B.  So why not try and focus on Example B from the get-go.  </font></p><p>Just because someone does not know how to hold a conversation well, or prove a point well does not mean thier input was not valuable to a dev standpoint. It gives them an idea of the scope of the problem, I.E. how many people are effected.  Also gives the devs a ballpark figure on how this problem is effecting that individuals personal game enjoyment.<font color="#cc00ff">You clearly missed the entire point of the post......it was a retort to commentalong the lines of "Aquality post, or just one that agrees with your oppinion"  So you took my comments out of context of the point I was trying to make.  I don't care if its sugar coated or what the idea is, flaming Devs, mods other classes, and Rangers for that matter, just makes one look juvenile.  </font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">You mentioned you were in Help Desk, let me ask you a question then:</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Customer A: Calls you screaming bloody murder, swearing calling your mother ungodly things becuase he is upset at your company, product whatever it might be that you support.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Customer B:  Clearly upset by tone and emphasis, clearly outlines a problem he is having with something and expects immediate attention, but all the while remaining cool headed and respectfull.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Which customer do you serve better?  Personally Customer A can take a hike and cool down call me back when you have a semblance of rationale back.  (yeah I know big words too :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Customer B has my full attention.  And, please don't ride the fence here.  I've worked enough Help Desk to know better.  My point, its not the substance of a post, its the inflamatory remarks, as soon as the dev sees it.  Bah-bye, time to move on.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Again, personally I don't care what everyone's oppinion is, its the manner in which you deliver it, </font></p><p>no matter how crude or raw someones post is, it does offer some benifit to a dev.  If I was running beta software or an application/game tester I would expect feedback in example B style of feedback.  Since the game has gone live and sony cannot filter who plays it, it is reasonable that they can expect both forms of feedback.</p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Again, could care less of the vocabulary used, its just a matter of respect, show more get more, show less get less.  Same lesson I emphasize with my kids.  </font></p><p> </p><hr></blockquote></div>

[Niuan]

<font color="#ff0000">My responses in red. </font><blockquote><hr>GoNomar wrote:<div><font color="#cc00ff"></font><font color="#cc00ff"></font><font color="#cc00ff"></font><blockquote><hr><p>If I was a college science teacher I would expect example B on my homework and tests.  On a video game that does not require an education to play.... either one will suffice.  If the issue raises the attention of enough players either of the A or B category the Devs will look at it.  The assumption that devs only look at college quality posts I don't believe to be true.<font color="#cc00ff">Regardless of the environment, the Devs are human just like everyone else, calling the pieces of sh-Garbage, by human nature, category A will result in the Devs skipping right past it and moving on, looking for a Post B.  So why not try and focus on Example B from the get-go.  </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">If one person flames and threatens to cancel yes they may ignore it.  If 200 paying accounts are in jeopardy you can bet they will take it to heart reguardless of the tone of the post.  Its all about the $$.</font></p><p>Just because someone does not know how to hold a conversation well, or prove a point well does not mean thier input was not valuable to a dev standpoint. It gives them an idea of the scope of the problem, I.E. how many people are effected.  Also gives the devs a ballpark figure on how this problem is effecting that individuals personal game enjoyment.<font color="#cc00ff">You clearly missed the entire point of the post......it was a retort to commentalong the lines of "Aquality post, or just one that agrees with your oppinion"  So you took my comments out of context of the point I was trying to make.  I don't care if its sugar coated or what the idea is, flaming Devs, mods other classes, and Rangers for that matter, just makes one look juvenile.  </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">This is all opinion based.  What one person would call whining another would call sticking up for themselves. </font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">You mentioned you were in Help Desk, let me ask you a question then:</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Customer A: Calls you screaming bloody murder, swearing calling your mother ungodly things becuase he is upset at your company, product whatever it might be that you support.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Customer B:  Clearly upset by tone and emphasis, clearly outlines a problem he is having with something and expects immediate attention, but all the while remaining cool headed and respectfull.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Which customer do you serve better?  Personally Customer A can take a hike and cool down call me back when you have a semblance of rationale back.  (yeah I know big words too :smileyhappy<img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />  Customer B has my full attention.  And, please don't ride the fence here.  I've worked enough Help Desk to know better.  My point, its not the substance of a post, its the inflamatory remarks, as soon as the dev sees it.  Bah-bye, time to move on.</font></p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Again, personally I don't care what everyone's oppinion is, its the manner in which you deliver it, </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">I work Customer Support not a generic help desk with internal buisness customers.  I touch and work with Irate customers day in and out. While I agree that I prefer working with calm collective customers I cannot agree that calm customers get better service.  In fact I would disagree with you and more often the calm person often gets pushed aside to put out forest fires with account buisness on the line.</font></p><p>no matter how crude or raw someones post is, it does offer some benifit to a dev.  If I was running beta software or an application/game tester I would expect feedback in example B style of feedback.  Since the game has gone live and sony cannot filter who plays it, it is reasonable that they can expect both forms of feedback.</p><p><font color="#cc00ff">Again, could care less of the vocabulary used, its just a matter of respect, show more get more, show less get less.  Same lesson I emphasize with my kids.  </font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">This line of thinking is opinionated and rooted from your upbringing and/or personal beliefs.  For example New Yorkers are very blunt in communicating to the point most would say they are rude and vulgar.  I believe that rudeness is sometimes mistaken for blunt honesty.  New Yorker expresses his true feelings in far fewer words making him a very efficient communicator than some one that tip toes worrying about sensitivity issues.</font></p><p><font color="#ff0000">For the record:  I also teach my kids to show respect.  </font></p><hr></blockquote></div><hr></blockquote>

[jarlaxle8]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div>"F A N B O I"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">That word really is painful to read.  Use a Y for the love of God.</font></div><hr></blockquote><p>Btil! you still around? :smileyvery-happy: come now, roll a ranger! you like our boards so much! and you know we're better! :smileytongue:</p><p>as for fanboi: that term is sometimes written like that, although the spelling is wrong.</p><p>---------------------------<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204" target="_self">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p>

[TaleraRis]

<div>Back when I did customer service and tech support (thank God I do data entry now), if they swore at us we were in full right to hang up on them.</div>

[BtilTheMage]

<div><font color="#cc0033">Too late, I rolled an SK and took up the...ermmm...bad fight I guess.  But I'll keep in touch. :smileytongue:</font></div><div><font color="#cc0033"></font> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">No more balance talk on the Ranger forum for me though.</font></div>

[Niuan]

<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div>Back when I did customer service and tech support (thank God I do data entry now), if they swore at us we were in full right to hang up on them.</div><hr></blockquote><p>So true So true!  Sometimes I wish I did not work support.  But, alas I have developed thick skin and can detatch myself from getting envolved.</p><p>I too can hang up if someone swears out right swears, but cannot for rudeness.  In the forumns there mechanics in place where one can't technically swear.  But anyway I'm talking about multimillion dollar buisness accounts that I work with. A little different than a 15  dollar a month subscriptions.  But if enough people lose interest in the game... 15 dollars adds up.</p>

[Zodi]

<div>Guys you still on the top of the DPS ladder? I dont understand whats the big issue.</div><div> </div><div> </div>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div>Guys you still on the top of the DPS ladder? I dont understand whats the big issue.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>I agree things are not that bad. </p><p>I think the main discusion now is people right to post when they feel the change effected them.  Alot of folks that were venting about the changes were attacked for posting thier opinion.</p><p>I would like to see everyones opinion, not just popular opinion.  I think this is the main debate now.</p>

[Zodi]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Siphar wrote:<div><div>Strip the feather from my hat and PLuck the gut from my bow <img src="/smilies/9d71f0541cff0a302a0309c5079e8dee.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Its a dark day for all rangers roaming and pillaging norrath... 2nd Feb '06 aka ''DARK DAY'' is the day when Rangers became normal everyday characters in Norrath once again. Sure we can retell stories of old how once mighty Rangers struck fear into the hearts of their foes, soloing various named and instances while not even breaking a sweat.</div><div> </div><div>Today... the fear has been [Removed for Content] from our bows. Stream is now just another CA and our str rings are permanent. Our proc'ing weapons cease to exists (PGT etc)..</div><div> </div><div>/lowers head in shame... takes cap off and cries...</div><div> </div><div>- 60 Nerf'd ranger</div><div>- 57 pally</div><div>- Level 3 new char...</div></div><hr></blockquote> I think this s a little bit to extreme. You guys still at the top of the DPS ladder. tell me how much did your DPS drop? 10% 20%.. Darn man your DPS still at least 15% than any other class.

[tweety1972]

<div></div><p>Im blind, im blind............who spiked the gnoll bite with gin?</p><p>Slight side note, Why don't we have sunglasses in game?Ok, enough pickin on, what do we really lose here. Armor procing on bows (bad) poisons procing more (IMO good) melee weapons procing off of bow (understandable).............am I missing something here? I think that is all.</p>

[Niuan]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>jarlaxle888 wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>BtilTheMage wrote:<div>"F A N B O I"</div><div> </div><div><font color="#cc0033">That word really is painful to read.  Use a Y for the love of God.</font></div><hr></blockquote><p>Btil! you still around? :smileyvery-happy: come now, roll a ranger! you like our boards so much! and you know we're better! :smileytongue:</p><p>as for fanboi: that term is sometimes written like that, although the spelling is wrong.</p><p>---------------------------<a href="http://eq2players.station.sony.com/en/pplayer.vm?characterId=383113204" target="_self">Ryilan Nightbreeze </a>---------------------------</p><hr></blockquote>Aye Btil is now an honorary RANGER.  Since he has surpased most ranger in post count in thier own forumns.  I think you brought up some good points as some of the counter arguments as well.  A good healthy debate.

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div>Back when I did customer service and tech support (thank God I do data entry now), if they swore at us we were in full right to hang up on them.</div><hr></blockquote><p>So true So true!  Sometimes I wish I did not work support.  But, alas I have developed thick skin and can detatch myself from getting envolved.</p><p>I too can hang up if someone swears out right swears, but cannot for rudeness.  In the forumns there mechanics in place where one can't technically swear.  But anyway I'm talking about multimillion dollar buisness accounts that I work with. A little different than a 15  dollar a month subscriptions.  But if enough people lose interest in the game... 15 dollars adds up.</p><hr></blockquote>Handling rudeness is fun. You just keep repeating what you're telling them <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" />

[Siphar]

<div><blockquote><hr>Siphar wrote:<div><div>Strip the feather from my hat and PLuck the gut from my bow <img border="0" src="http://eqiiforums.station.sony.com/i/smilies/16x16_smiley-sad.gif" height="16" width="16"></div><div> </div><div>Its a dark day for all rangers roaming and pillaging norrath... 2nd Feb '06 aka ''DARK DAY'' is the day when Rangers became normal everyday characters in Norrath once again. Sure we can retell stories of old how once mighty Rangers struck fear into the hearts of their foes, soloing various named and instances while not even breaking a sweat.</div><div> </div><div>Today... the fear has been [Removed for Content] from our bows. Stream is now just another CA and our str rings are permanent. Our proc'ing weapons cease to exists (PGT etc)..</div><div> </div><div>/lowers head in shame... takes cap off and cries...</div><div> </div><div>- 60 Nerf'd ranger</div><div>- 57 pally</div><div>- Level 3 new char...</div></div><hr></blockquote> I think this s a little bit to extreme. You guys still at the top of the DPS ladder. tell me how much did your DPS drop? 10% 20%.. Darn man your DPS still at least 15% than any other class.</div><div> </div><div><hr> </div><div> </div><div>This was actually a reply i posted on the brig forum- a rather "tongue in cheek" semi sarcastic reply i agree. I sumed up my genuine thoughts on sevral other threads- which summed up to: adapt to new changes and play the game how it was supposed to be played. We were overpowered before and now we sit neatly in tier one dps and rightly so considering our lack of utility etc.</div><div> </div><div>I only have a real issue with the lack of choice of bows, the prismatic 2.0 and other broken aspects of LU19 which included the armour not proc'ing etc.</div><div> </div><div>- Peace</div>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div>Back when I did customer service and tech support (thank God I do data entry now), if they swore at us we were in full right to hang up on them.</div><hr></blockquote><p>So true So true!  Sometimes I wish I did not work support.  But, alas I have developed thick skin and can detatch myself from getting envolved.</p><p>I too can hang up if someone swears out right swears, but cannot for rudeness.  In the forumns there mechanics in place where one can't technically swear.  But anyway I'm talking about multimillion dollar buisness accounts that I work with. A little different than a 15  dollar a month subscriptions.  But if enough people lose interest in the game... 15 dollars adds up.</p><hr></blockquote>Handling rudeness is fun. You just keep repeating what you're telling them <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote><p>LOL that explains a lot dear. </p><p>Just kidding /hug</p><p>The client site I'm working at now is a call center and they are not allowed to terminate the calls for any reason.  They get some pretty angry, belligerent customers sometimes...   when they figure out that the agents can't hang up on them, it can get so out of hand.  One time we were all gathered around listening to this old guy go off for like 20 minutes.  I learned a few new words/phrases that day, and I almost blacked out because I was laughing so hard that I couldn't freekin breathe. hee hee</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by GrayStorm on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:10 AM</span></p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div>Guys you still on the top of the DPS ladder? I dont understand whats the big issue.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>I agree things are not that bad. </p><p>I think the main discusion now is people right to post when they feel the change effected them.  Alot of folks that were venting about the changes were attacked for posting thier opinion.</p><p>I would like to see everyones opinion, not just popular opinion.  I think this is the main debate now.</p><hr></blockquote>I think the point has always been that it's not about opinions. I'm all for someone saying "I think this because blah blah blah" and someone else saying "no, I think you're wrong because blah blah blah". However, when I see people coming into the Ranger forum and attacking the devs and attacking SOE, I think about the work we have done to get the Rangers up to THIS point. It wasn't because we attacked. It was because we were rational and worked through the problems. We analyzed the situation. We didn't say "dark days, oh woe is me". We said "hey devs, this isn't working and here's why we think that". You can present your argument like a nice steak on fine china or you can present it served in a ashtray full of cigars. Which one do you think will get digested easier?The reason we have pointed people to "the door" is because we know the results of their posts. Ask the Guardians how far they've gotten. We took almost a year of talk to get the Rangers where most of us thought they should be. But we arrived and it wasn't through trashing people. I'm not a carebear by any means but I'm sensible enough to know how to talk to people and get them to see my point.

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Cronon wrote:<blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Zodian wrote:<div>Guys you still on the top of the DPS ladder? I dont understand whats the big issue.</div><div> </div><div> </div><hr></blockquote><p>I agree things are not that bad. </p><p>I think the main discusion now is people right to post when they feel the change effected them.  Alot of folks that were venting about the changes were attacked for posting thier opinion.</p><p>I would like to see everyones opinion, not just popular opinion.  I think this is the main debate now.</p><hr></blockquote>I think the point has always been that it's not about opinions. I'm all for someone saying "I think this because blah blah blah" and someone else saying "no, I think you're wrong because blah blah blah". However, when I see people coming into the Ranger forum and attacking the devs and attacking SOE, I think about the work we have done to get the Rangers up to THIS point. It wasn't because we attacked. It was because we were rational and worked through the problems. We analyzed the situation. We didn't say "dark days, oh woe is me". We said "hey devs, this isn't working and here's why we think that". You can present your argument like a nice steak on fine china or you can present it served in a ashtray full of cigars. Which one do you think will get digested easier?The reason we have pointed people to "the door" is because we know the results of their posts. Ask the Guardians how far they've gotten. We took almost a year of talk to get the Rangers where most of us thought they should be. But we arrived and it wasn't through trashing people. I'm not a carebear by any means but I'm sensible enough to know how to talk to people and get them to see my point.<hr></blockquote>Say whatever you want buddy, there's just no excuse for attacking people who come in here to express their feelings. 

[Fennir]

That's a pretty poor excuse for acting like a child.<div></div>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:That's a pretty poor excuse for acting like a child.<div></div><hr></blockquote>maybe I am a child smart guy

[Fennir]

Color me surprised.<div></div>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>Fennir wrote:Color me surprised.<div></div><hr></blockquote>I like you.

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<div></div><div></div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><blockquote><hr>Niuan wrote:<blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div>Back when I did customer service and tech support (thank God I do data entry now), if they swore at us we were in full right to hang up on them.</div><hr></blockquote><p>So true So true!  Sometimes I wish I did not work support.  But, alas I have developed thick skin and can detatch myself from getting envolved.</p><p>I too can hang up if someone swears out right swears, but cannot for rudeness.  In the forumns there mechanics in place where one can't technically swear.  But anyway I'm talking about multimillion dollar buisness accounts that I work with. A little different than a 15  dollar a month subscriptions.  But if enough people lose interest in the game... 15 dollars adds up.</p><hr></blockquote>Handling rudeness is fun. You just keep repeating what you're telling them <img src="/smilies/283a16da79f3aa23fe1025c96295f04f.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /><hr></blockquote><p>LOL that explains a lot dear. </p><p>Just kidding /hug</p><p>The client site I'm working at now is a call center and they are not allowed to terminate the calls for any reason.  They get some pretty angry, belligerent customers sometimes...   when they figure out that the agents can't hang up on them, it can get so out of hand.  One time we were all gathered around listening to this old guy go off for like 20 minutes.  I learned a few new words/phrases that day, and I almost blacked out because I was laughing so hard that I couldn't freekin breathe. hee hee</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Message Edited by GrayStorm on <span class="date_text">02-09-2006</span><span class="time_text">08:10 AM</span></p><hr></blockquote><p>I was the team leader for a call center. We were allowed to hang up if they started into cursing at you.</p><p>What always amused me were the tattletales. I answered phones just like everyone else and many times I would be unable to help someone because it was out of policy. So I would politely explain this again and again and again and they would get angry and hang up.</p><p>Then they would call back and want to speak to a supervisor. As I was the supervisor at the time, they got me. So the call is transferred over and they're telling me all this stuff about how I acted and how I cursed them or was very rude or such and such. And in my mind I'm laughing my [expletive haxx0red by Raijinn] off because they didn't pay any attention to my name and they don't realize the person they were talking to and telling all these lies about is ME.</p><p>I never did explain it, either. I told them I was sorry that happened, I would speak to the person, blah blah blah, then go tell my co-workers what happened so we could all laugh at that customer's stupidity.</p><p>The funny thing is this didn't just happen once. It happened constantly. Was hilarious.</p>

[TaleraRis]

<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>GrayStorm wrote:</p><p>Say whatever you want buddy, there's just no excuse for attacking people who come in here to express their feelings. </p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm very blunt IRL. I express my feelings quite clearly. I can be quite a hothead. When my boyfriend and I speak on a subject, he is the Good Cop. I am the Bad Cop.</p><p>But I also know when to use tact and be constructive. I know people are angry, but anger and nasty words aren't the solution to problems. The devs have shown they do take what we say into consideration in the past, but only if we show we are mature and logical in what we suggest.</p><p>I can't fault those who "showed people to the door" honestly because while you defend the right of others to come here and express their feelings, I defend the other party's right to not want their forum turned into a flamefest and be able to maintain a formula that has been proven to work.</p><p>Nobody is saying they can't have an opinion. They're merely saying be adult about it, or just go away because they aren't helping if they aren't adult about it. I've seen many dissenting opinions of LU19 around these boards and in the ranger channel not just from those who are vocal now, but old and established members. So those who say "put it maturely" aren't for the LU. They just express their feelings on the topic a different and more appropriate way.</p>

[GrayStorm]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>TaleraRis wrote:<div></div><blockquote><p></p><hr><p>GrayStorm wrote:</p><p>Say whatever you want buddy, there's just no excuse for attacking people who come in here to express their feelings. </p><p></p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm very blunt IRL. I express my feelings quite clearly. I can be quite a hothead. When my boyfriend and I speak on a subject, he is the Good Cop. I am the Bad Cop.</p><p>But I also know when to use tact and be constructive. I know people are angry, but anger and nasty words aren't the solution to problems. The devs have shown they do take what we say into consideration in the past, but only if we show we are mature and logical in what we suggest.</p><p>I can't fault those who "showed people to the door" honestly because while you defend the right of others to come here and express their feelings, I defend the other party's right to not want their forum turned into a flamefest and be able to maintain a formula that has been proven to work.</p><p>Nobody is saying they can't have an opinion. They're merely saying be adult about it, or just go away because they aren't helping if they aren't adult about it. I've seen many dissenting opinions of LU19 around these boards and in the ranger channel not just from those who are vocal now, but old and established members. So those who say "put it maturely" aren't for the LU. They just express their feelings on the topic a different and more appropriate way.</p><hr></blockquote><p>yeah yeah, let's all just be friends.</p><p>I was bitter about not being able to solo as effectively with SoA gimped, and with the expansion coming... but truth be told, I never solo anymore.  I love the way stream casts so fast now.  Very nice.  I'm crossing my fingers on the poison changes in hopes that they will not hurt us too badly.</p>

[steelbadger]

<div></div><blockquote><hr>GrayStorm wrote:<div></div>Say whatever you want buddy, there's just no excuse for attacking people who come in here to express their feelings. <hr></blockquote><p>all very well and good but when your feelings are along the lines of ' [insert long line of explitives that you would not want you mother to hear] you SOE!!!!!!!' it is not really terribly constructive feelings.</p><p> </p><p>After much time on forums, i have noticed that swearing at the people who make the changes does not, strangely enough, make them feel terribly sorry for you.  Swearing seven kinds of hell at SOE for doing something that you do not agree with is not going to get you anywhere.  I understand that you need to vent frustration, but doing it on these forums will not halp you in the slightest.  That kind of thing is what stress balls are for.</p><p>A nerf is never good, but i prefer to think of this more as a rebalance, just a couple of nights ago i was fighting alongside a ranger who managed to get themselves aggroed and killed in every single encounter.  The DPS still seems to be there...</p>

[Cron]

<blockquote><hr>steelbadger wrote:<div></div><p>A nerf is never good, but i prefer to think of this more as a rebalance, just a couple of nights ago i was fighting alongside a ranger who managed to get themselves aggroed and killed in every single encounter.  The DPS still seems to be there...</p><hr></blockquote>Was that me? LOL. I was in Court Of Al last night and eventually resorted to punching the mobs and letting my poisons and CA's proc because I died so many times I was naked. It was chaos crazy. Great time last night though.

[Jay]

<div></div><p>And now, for your amusement, a dancing dwarven clown!!</p><p><ushers Binky the Drunk out for all to enjoy></p>

[Jay]

<div></div><div>Hmmm!! This actually turned into a rather thought-provoking thread. I'd been ignoring it for a week or so as it seemed a useless flame fest. But I just caught up and found out there's some worth here after all.</div><div> </div><div>Can I call it like I see it too, Niuan? Or is that something that only you're allowed to do? <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>That's what people like Zholain and I are doing - calling it as we see it, just like you say you are. Nobody here is trying to silence anyone else. How could we? We're just EQ players like the rest of you, and insulting us by implying that we think we're somehow "better" than anyone else here just makes you look kinda ignorant. Our records speak for themselves here. Maybe the tone made anyone who didn't fall in to a certain opinion feel like their perspective was unwelcome. That's not true at all. What's unwelcome here (IMO, as is everything I post!) is childish, immature behavior, flaming, attacking each other or those in other classes, insults, name-calling, and general idiocy like that. All opinions have a place here, but the method you use to express that opinion may hinder another person's ability to understand it.</div><div> </div><div>But the real point: the 'venting' vs. 'constructive' posters and the mentalities they adhere to. There's nothing wrong with venting, but the word venting itself implies that you're basically ranting to let off steam, and don't really mean what you say, or don't feel it as strongly as you may appear to given the volume and tone that you're using to release that stress. Right?</div><div> </div><div>So...how are those of us who aren't venting supposed to know that you <em>are</em> venting? If you don't precede a rant with "okay I just gotta blow off some steam" or give us some kind of context that you don't literally mean what you're saying ... we only have your words to go on; no tone of voice, gestures, expressions, nothing. So a post made as a 'vent' and a post made as a literal complaint can look identical.</div><div> </div><div>Feel free to vent, you're more than welcome to. Those of us "big names" (as someone said, not my words) have never attempted to 'control' the ability of others to express opinions, we've only asked that those opinions get expressed in a way other than screaming at the top of your lungs about how much you hate SOE. That's not too much to ask. But please, don't ever think that you aren't "allowed" to express a certain opinion here - that's just ridiculous.  That said, you're allowed to post your perpsective, and so am I - this is a two-way street, so you're going to have to accept my posts just as you're asking me to accept yours. <img src="/smilies/3b63d1616c5dfcf29f8a7a031aaa7cad.gif" border="0" alt="SMILEY" /></div><div> </div><div>Anyway, I'm glad the air is clearer in here. Big ups to all of you who are sticking it out, whether you're venting or not.</div>